No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight €“ and disaster

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland

http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy

Note the following point in the article:
"According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
menu prices where tipping is not permitted."

On 8/14/2016 2:22 PM, graham wrote:
> No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight €“ and disaster
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
>
>
> http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
>
> Note the following point in the article:
> "According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
> and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
> most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
> obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
> menu prices where tipping is not permitted."


Did it point out why people pay the tax on their meals?

On 8/14/2016 3:24 PM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
> On 8/14/2016 2:22 PM, graham wrote:
>> No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight €“ and disaster
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
>>
>>
>>
>> http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
>>
>> Note the following point in the article:
>> "According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
>> and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
>> most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
>> obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
>> menu prices where tipping is not permitted."
>
>
> Did it point out why people pay the tax on their meals?
Why is that relevant?
Graham

On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 3:22:24 PM UTC-6, graham wrote:
> No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight €“ and disaster
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
>
> http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
>
> Note the following point in the article:
> "According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
> and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
> most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
> obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
> menu prices where tipping is not permitted."

So with this new policy if adopted country-wide results in poor service or crappy food we can just get to pay a built-in tip, like it or not. Could mean fewer customers or certainly more discrimination as to where we dine.
In theory things should be better for the workers but I'm fairly suspicious that this is just a money grab.I guess I've been out in the world too long and have become more suspicious of business-men and their motives.
====

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 15:22:21 -0600, graham > wrote:

>"According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
>and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
>most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
>obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
>menu prices where tipping is not permitted."

That would be my preference. I hate the idea of tipping. Just pay the
staff better wages from the outset and increase your prices
accordingly.

On 8/14/2016 3:56 PM, Roy wrote:
> On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 3:22:24 PM UTC-6, graham wrote:
>> No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight €“ and disaster
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
>>
>> http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
>>
>> Note the following point in the article:
>> "According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
>> and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
>> most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
>> obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
>> menu prices where tipping is not permitted."
>
> So with this new policy if adopted country-wide results in poor service or crappy food we can just get to pay a built-in tip, like it or not. Could mean fewer customers or certainly more discrimination as to where we dine.
> In theory things should be better for the workers but I'm fairly suspicious that this is just a money grab.I guess I've been out in the world too long and have become more suspicious of business-men and their motives.
> ====
>
So you are happy with a waitress in a short skirt and big tits earning a
lot more that the cooks who actually prepare the food?

On 2016-08-14 5:22 PM, graham wrote:
> No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight €“ and disaster
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
>
>
> http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
>
> Note the following point in the article:
> "According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
> and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
> most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
> obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
> menu prices where tipping is not permitted."

It works in lots of places in Europe. You get good professional service
without waiters fawning all over you trying to ingratiate you into a
larger tip. What you see on the bill is a price higher than you would
see here, but that is what you pay. You don't see a bunch of taxes added
to the bill and aren't expected to leave 15% or more on top.
I find it curious that the guy in the article said he would have to
raise his prices by 40% to get the money he needs to pay the higher
wages when tipping less than half of that was supposed to have been
working.

On 8/14/2016 2:32 PM, graham wrote:
> On 8/14/2016 3:24 PM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
>> On 8/14/2016 2:22 PM, graham wrote:
>>> No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight €“ and disaster
>>>
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
>>>
>>> Note the following point in the article:
>>> "According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
>>> and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
>>> most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
>>> obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
>>> menu prices where tipping is not permitted."
>>
>>
>> Did it point out why people pay the tax on their meals?
> Why is that relevant?
> Graham


why is relevancy relevant?

On 8/14/2016 2:56 PM, Roy wrote:
> On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 3:22:24 PM UTC-6, graham wrote:
>> No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight €“ and disaster
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
>>
>> http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
>>
>> Note the following point in the article:
>> "According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
>> and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
>> most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
>> obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
>> menu prices where tipping is not permitted."
>
> So with this new policy if adopted country-wide results in poor service or crappy food we can just get to pay a built-in tip, like it or not. Could mean fewer customers or certainly more discrimination as to where we dine.
> In theory things should be better for the workers but I'm fairly suspicious that this is just a money grab.I guess I've been out in the world too long and have become more suspicious of business-men and their motives.
> ====
>

It works in other countries and has for decades.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 15:14:00 -0700, Taxed and Spent
> wrote:

>On 8/14/2016 2:56 PM, Roy wrote:
>> So with this new policy if adopted country-wide results in poor service or crappy food we can just get to pay a built-in tip, like it or not. Could mean fewer customers or certainly more discrimination as to where we dine.
>> In theory things should be better for the workers but I'm fairly suspicious that this is just a money grab.I guess I've been out in the world too long and have become more suspicious of business-men and their motives.
>
>It works in other countries and has for decades.

Yep. No problems at all.

On 8/14/2016 5:56 PM, Roy wrote:

>
> In theory things should be better for the workers but I'm fairly suspicious that this is just a money grab.I guess I've been out in the world too long and have become more suspicious of business-men and their motives.
> ====
>

In reality it can hurt workers. I know a server that consistently makes
$200 to $300 a 6 hour shift. Do you think she'll be happy with a no
tipping policy and $12 an hour?

It may be good in some places, but not everyone wants it.

On 8/14/2016 6:00 PM, graham wrote:

>>
> So you are happy with a waitress in a short skirt and big tits earning a
> lot more that the cooks who actually prepare the food?

Are you suggesting the wait staff takes a cut so the cooks can make more?

Are you happy making more than the guy at the car wash?

On 8/14/2016 5:59 PM, Je�us wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 15:22:21 -0600, graham > wrote:
>
>> "According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
>> and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
>> most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
>> obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
>> menu prices where tipping is not permitted."
>
> That would be my preference. I hate the idea of tipping. Just pay the
> staff better wages from the outset and increase your prices
> accordingly.
>

What about the staff that gets a pay cut? What is a better wage? It
may help some, but not everyone.

On 8/14/2016 3:42 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 8/14/2016 5:59 PM, Je�us wrote:
>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 15:22:21 -0600, graham > wrote:
>>
>>> "According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
>>> and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
>>> most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
>>> obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
>>> menu prices where tipping is not permitted."
>>
>> That would be my preference. I hate the idea of tipping. Just pay the
>> staff better wages from the outset and increase your prices
>> accordingly.
>>
>
> What about the staff that gets a pay cut? What is a better wage? It
> may help some, but not everyone.

Then they can go and get other jobs that will pay them what they are worth.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 15:55:00 -0700, Taxed and Spent
> wrote:

>On 8/14/2016 3:42 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 8/14/2016 5:59 PM, Je?us wrote:
>>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 15:22:21 -0600, graham > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
>>>> and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
>>>> most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
>>>> obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
>>>> menu prices where tipping is not permitted."
>>>
>>> That would be my preference. I hate the idea of tipping. Just pay the
>>> staff better wages from the outset and increase your prices
>>> accordingly.
>>>
>>
>> What about the staff that gets a pay cut? What is a better wage? It
>> may help some, but not everyone.
>
>Then they can go and get other jobs that will pay them what they are worth.

Wait staff get paid perfectly well in Australia, without tipping. I'd
hate to see that change with a move to reduced wages and tipping to
compensate.

I used to clean, cook, order stock, serve customers and pretty much do
everything else apart from the book work at one restaurant back in
1993. I got a perfectly adequate wage and never once thought about
tips.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 18:33:44 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 8/14/2016 5:56 PM, Roy wrote:
>
>>
>> In theory things should be better for the workers but I'm fairly suspicious that this is just a money grab.I guess I've been out in the world too long and have become more suspicious of business-men and their motives.
>> ====
>>
>
>In reality it can hurt workers. I know a server that consistently makes
>$200 to $300 a 6 hour shift. Do you think she'll be happy with a no
>tipping policy and $12 an hour?
>
>It may be good in some places, but not everyone wants it.

I like to tip because when a server is pleasant and helpful it's nice
to reward such. I have also been known not to leave a tip when plates
were just about thrown on the table in front of us! The place where
I have my nails done has a no tipping policy but one woman is so nice
and companionable that when nobody is looking, I slip her a tip.

On 8/14/2016 6:55 PM, Taxed and Spent wrote:

>>>
>>
>> What about the staff that gets a pay cut? What is a better wage? It
>> may help some, but not everyone.
>
> Then they can go and get other jobs that will pay them what they are worth.

Sure the transition from waitress to engineer is easy enough.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 09:05:59 +1000, Jeßus > wrote:

> I used to clean, cook, order stock, serve customers and pretty much do
> everything else apart from the book work at one restaurant back in
> 1993. I got a perfectly adequate wage and never once thought about
> tips.

That's because your standard of living was low and you didn't know any
better.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 18:06:41 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 2016-08-14 5:22 PM, graham wrote:
> > No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight – and disaster
> >
> > https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
> >
> >
> > http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
> >
> > Note the following point in the article:
> > "According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
> > and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
> > most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
> > obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
> > menu prices where tipping is not permitted."
>
> It works in lots of places in Europe. You get good professional service
> without waiters fawning all over you trying to ingratiate you into a
> larger tip. What you see on the bill is a price higher than you would
> see here, but that is what you pay. You don't see a bunch of taxes added
> to the bill and aren't expected to leave 15% or more on top.
> I find it curious that the guy in the article said he would have to
> raise his prices by 40% to get the money he needs to pay the higher
> wages when tipping less than half of that was supposed to have been
> working.
>
>
They go out of business quickly in the USA. Customers want to pay a
reasonable price for food and leave the tipping up them.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On 8/14/2016 5:24 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 8/14/2016 6:55 PM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>
>>> What about the staff that gets a pay cut? What is a better wage? It
>>> may help some, but not everyone.
>>
>> Then they can go and get other jobs that will pay them what they are
>> worth.
>
> Sure the transition from waitress to engineer is easy enough.

Then they can quit their bitching.

On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 4:01:01 PM UTC-6, graham wrote:
> On 8/14/2016 3:56 PM, Roy wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 3:22:24 PM UTC-6, graham wrote:
> >> No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight €“ and disaster
> >>
> >> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
> >>
> >> http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
> >>
> >> Note the following point in the article:
> >> "According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
> >> and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
> >> most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
> >> obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
> >> menu prices where tipping is not permitted."
> >
> > So with this new policy if adopted country-wide results in poor service or crappy food we can just get to pay a built-in tip, like it or not. Could mean fewer customers or certainly more discrimination as to where we dine..
> > In theory things should be better for the workers but I'm fairly suspicious that this is just a money grab.I guess I've been out in the world too long and have become more suspicious of business-men and their motives.
> > ====
> >
> So you are happy with a waitress in a short skirt and big tits earning a
> lot more that the cooks who actually prepare the food?

I don't eat at restaurants that much so it won't matter to me. Cooks here in the better places ARE getting reasonable rates of pay. When the local Sawmill was advertising they offered $40 and $50 an hour to start depending on training and experience. Hard to say what final pay was.
Personally, I don't dine out for the sexy waitresses (not at my age)...as food is my objective...ahahahahahaha.
====

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 18:02:58 -0700, Taxed and Spent
> wrote:

> On 8/14/2016 5:24 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 8/14/2016 6:55 PM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
> >
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> What about the staff that gets a pay cut? What is a better wage? It
> >>> may help some, but not everyone.
> >>
> >> Then they can go and get other jobs that will pay them what they are
> >> worth.
> >
> > Sure the transition from waitress to engineer is easy enough.
>
> Then they can quit their bitching.

They aren't bitching. You are.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 15:22:21 -0600, graham > wrote:

>No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight – and disaster
>
>https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
>
>http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
>
>Note the following point in the article:
>"According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
>and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
>most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
>obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
>menu prices where tipping is not permitted."

What is a proper tip at a "buffet" self serve restaurant where a
server brings you water and does not come back to your table?

William

On 2016-08-15 7:43 AM, William wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 15:22:21 -0600, graham > wrote:
>
>> No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight €“ and disaster
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
>>
>> http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
>>
>> Note the following point in the article:
>> "According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
>> and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
>> most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
>> obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
>> menu prices where tipping is not permitted."
>
> What is a proper tip at a "buffet" self serve restaurant where a
> server brings you water and does not come back to your table?

It should be about the same as the tip you leave for counter service.
You go up to the counter, place your order, stand there and wait for it
and then carry it back to the table. Some places have a tip jar and
expect a tip for the service that you did yourself.

It works here, SF, with some restaurants being in successful business for decades.
It depends on the restaurant and the community in which it serves its
customers.

N.

William wrote:
>
> What is a proper tip at a "buffet" self serve restaurant where a
> server brings you water and does not come back to your table?

Even at a buffet, the server will stop by and remove old plates. I've
never had one ignore us completely. Servers count on tips even in cheap
restaurants. I always give them 20-30%. Don't be such a tightwad. If a
little extra to have your food cooked for you is so bad, stay home and
cook. You are getting a great deal from the restaurant. Pass some of
that savings to your waitress.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 15:22:21 -0600, graham > wrote:

>No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight – and disaster
>
>https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
>
>http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
>
>Note the following point in the article:
>"According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
>and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
>most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
>obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
>menu prices where tipping is not permitted."

I have a question about tipping in general. I have no problem paying
tips for service in a restaurant. I just question different formats:

-sit down, waitress takes your order, serves your meal, keeps your
beverage glass full, frequently asks what you need, suggests possible
dessert alternatives

-Chinese Buffet, get table, person brings glass of water, you serve
yourself food, water server never returns to offer more water

-Golden Corral Buffet, pick table and lay your receipt on table, go
get your food and beverage, come back to table and notice a person has
signed their name on your receipt with a note saying they are going to
be my server...but they never serve a thing to me while I am eating

What would Miss Manners tell me to tip in these various scenarios?


William

On 8/15/2016 8:34 AM, Gary wrote:
> William wrote:
>>
>> What is a proper tip at a "buffet" self serve restaurant where a
>> server brings you water and does not come back to your table?
>
> Even at a buffet, the server will stop by and remove old plates. I've
> never had one ignore us completely. Servers count on tips even in cheap
> restaurants. I always give them 20-30%.

I tip as usual, too. Generally a buffet will be quite cheap
and the difference between 10 and 20% is negligible and why not
err on the side of generosity. As you say, they're watching your
table and removing dishes, making sure your drink isn't empty.
I suppose if they didn't do that I might feel differently.

If it's an expensive buffet, the service is usually even more
attentive and I might think about leaving 15 rather than 20.
Again, the difference isn't life changing unless you are miserly.

nancy

On 8/15/2016 7:06 AM, William wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 15:22:21 -0600, graham > wrote:
>
>> No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight – and disaster
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
>>
>> http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
>>
>> Note the following point in the article:
>> "According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
>> and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
>> most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
>> obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
>> menu prices where tipping is not permitted."
>
> I have a question about tipping in general. I have no problem paying
> tips for service in a restaurant. I just question different formats:
>
> -sit down, waitress takes your order, serves your meal, keeps your
> beverage glass full, frequently asks what you need, suggests possible
> dessert alternatives
>
> -Chinese Buffet, get table, person brings glass of water, you serve
> yourself food, water server never returns to offer more water
>
> -Golden Corral Buffet, pick table and lay your receipt on table, go
> get your food and beverage, come back to table and notice a person has
> signed their name on your receipt with a note saying they are going to
> be my server...but they never serve a thing to me while I am eating
>
> What would Miss Manners tell me to tip in these various scenarios?
>
>
> William
>
>
And what if the server is the owner's wife?

"William" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 15:22:21 -0600, graham > wrote:
>
>>No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight – and disaster
>>
>>https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
>>
>>http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
>>
>>Note the following point in the article:
>>"According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
>>and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
>>most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
>>obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
>>menu prices where tipping is not permitted."
>
> I have a question about tipping in general. I have no problem paying
> tips for service in a restaurant. I just question different formats:
>
> -sit down, waitress takes your order, serves your meal, keeps your
> beverage glass full, frequently asks what you need, suggests possible
> dessert alternatives
>
> -Chinese Buffet, get table, person brings glass of water, you serve
> yourself food, water server never returns to offer more water
>
> -Golden Corral Buffet, pick table and lay your receipt on table, go
> get your food and beverage, come back to table and notice a person has
> signed their name on your receipt with a note saying they are going to
> be my server...but they never serve a thing to me while I am eating
>
> What would Miss Manners tell me to tip in these various scenarios?
>
>
> William

Where I am, Golden Corral servers do bring your drinks, and clear away
plates etc.

Cheri

Roy wrote:

> On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 4:01:01 PM UTC-6, graham wrote:
> > On 8/14/2016 3:56 PM, Roy wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 3:22:24 PM UTC-6, graham wrote:
> > >> No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight €“ and disaster
> > >>
> > >> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
> > >>
> > >> http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
> > >>
> > >> Note the following point in the article:
> > >> "According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
> > >> and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
> > >> most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
> > >> obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
> > >> menu prices where tipping is not permitted."
> > >
> > > So with this new policy if adopted country-wide results in poor service or crappy food we can just get to pay a built-in tip, like it or not. Could mean fewer customers or certainly more discrimination as to where we dine.
> > > In theory things should be better for the workers but I'm fairly suspicious that this is just a money grab.I guess I've been out in the world too long and have become more suspicious of business-men and their motives.
> > > ====
> > >
> > So you are happy with a waitress in a short skirt and big tits earning a
> > lot more that the cooks who actually prepare the food?
>
> I don't eat at restaurants that much so it won't matter to me. Cooks here in the better places ARE getting reasonable rates of pay. When the local Sawmill was advertising they offered $40 and $50 an hour to start depending on training and experience. Hard to say what final pay was.

Then why did you post this, "Roy"...???
> Personally, I don't dine out for the sexy waitresses (not at my age)...as food is my objective...ahahahahahaha.


Well, that *is* what restos are for, eh...???


--
Best
Greg

On 2016-08-15, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> Sure the transition from waitress to engineer is easy enough.

Certainly worked fer my engineer cow orker, who enhanced his
engineering income as a waiter in a high-end resto.

nb

On 8/14/2016 5:22 PM, graham wrote:
> No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight €“ and disaster
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
>
>
> http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
>
> Note the following point in the article:
> "According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
> and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
> most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
> obliged*. He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
> menu prices where tipping is not permitted."

Please note the following from the article, also:

"To rectify this, Dolich has devised the €œone house€� model at Park
Kitchen. Its a gratuity-free policy which has eliminated a distinction
between the front and back of house. He has cross-trained his employees
€“ servers now cook and cooks now serve €“ and they all work full time for
$15 per hour, with no tips, but full benefits and paid time off."

Do you know how rare it is to get full benefits and paid time off when
you work in a restaurant? Just sayin'.

Jill

On 8/15/2016 12:12 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2016-08-15, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> Sure the transition from waitress to engineer is easy enough.
>
> Certainly worked fer my engineer cow orker, who enhanced his
> engineering income as a waiter in a high-end resto.
>
> nb
>
I'm picturing a cow who earned extra funds working in a restaurant in
order to get job at a milk processing plant as an engineer. LOL

Jill

On 8/15/2016 6:26 PM, William wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 17:11:16 -0400, Nancy Young
> > wrote:

>> I feel sorrier for people who eat in places like that and
>> accept such neglect.

> tell me Nancy, how do you force the server to wait on you? I don't
> have time to start a war in the restaurant.

I don't. I stay home or go elsewhere. Are you being forced
to eat there?

Wait. (suspicious look) Are you in the joint?

nancy

On 8/15/2016 7:43 AM, William wrote:

>
> What is a proper tip at a "buffet" self serve restaurant where a
> server brings you water and does not come back to your table?
>
> William
>
>

Not much if that is all they did. If the took away the dishes when you
went back for more and brought you beverages, I'd be reasonably generous
but not as much as a regular restaurant.

When I go to a buffet I tend to take small portions and go back to try
different things. If the server kept and did a good job they deserve a
fair reward.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 07:43:28 -0400, William > wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 15:22:21 -0600, graham > wrote:
>
>>No-tipping policies at US restaurants prompt delight – and disaster
>>
>>https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fects-portland
>>
>>http://tiny.cc/ng4ydy
>>
>>Note the following point in the article:
>>"According to research by Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behaviour
>>and marketing at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration,
>>most people tip not based on service, but *because they feel guilty and
>>obliged*.

Bullshit, I never feel guilty/obliged to tip, When service is lousy I
leave no tip and naturally I'll never be back.

>>He also found that 53% of customers liked the idea of higher
>>menu prices where tipping is not permitted."

I don't believe that. People who enjoy eating out consider tipping
and tipping well an investment to ensure excellent future experiences.
Without tipping service declines to the lowest common denominator.
People who detest tipping are fast food addicts, they think mystery
meat burgers are fine cusine.

>What is a proper tip at a "buffet" self serve restaurant where a
>server brings you water and does not come back to your table?
>
>William

They do come back to clean the table. Those would be bussers, not
servers... there are no servers in serve yourself restaurants... if
you must tip yourself. Bussers are paid minimum wage, servers are
paid well below minimum wage, but with tips easily leap way ahead of
minimum wage. At most restaurants servers share part of their tips
with bussers. At most restaurants, with tips servers clear way more
than even the touted $15/hr. Do away with tipping and raise the
server's pay to $15/hr and there'll only be lousy/lazy servers...
people will cease patronizing and won't be long restaurants will close
up left right and center. It won't pay to invest in the restaurant
business under those conditions.

On 8/15/2016 9:06 AM, William wrote:

>
> -Golden Corral Buffet, pick table and lay your receipt on table, go
> get your food and beverage, come back to table and notice a person has
> signed their name on your receipt with a note saying they are going to
> be my server...but they never serve a thing to me while I am eating
>
> What would Miss Manners tell me to tip in these various scenarios?
>
>
> William
>
>

Obvious what to do. They gave you their name in hopes of getting a
Christmas card from you. Miss Manners would do that.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 18:47:41 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>I don't. I stay home or go elsewhere. Are you being forced
>to eat there?
>
>Wait. (suspicious look) Are you in the joint?
>
>nancy

I go there to get a wide selection of food to eat. I
usually try to fix myself one plate. I am not going to the buffet to
gorge myself. I take my drink to the table and also serve myself food.
Just because so called "Servers" have staked out an area of tables as
their territory, I believe they are expecting a tip just because you
happen to sit in their territory...whether they are waiting on you or
not. I wonder why they come and sign their name on your receipt as
your server and then not come back? Extreme stupidity. I will try to
educate them "as to exactly what causes me to leave money for them" on
the table if they give me the chance.

But I do not go to the buffet to be waited on.

William

On 8/15/2016 4:06 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 8/15/2016 9:06 AM, William wrote:
>
>>
>> -Golden Corral Buffet, pick table and lay your receipt on table, go
>> get your food and beverage, come back to table and notice a person has
>> signed their name on your receipt with a note saying they are going to
>> be my server...but they never serve a thing to me while I am eating
>>
>> What would Miss Manners tell me to tip in these various scenarios?
>>
>>
>> William
>>
>>
>
> Obvious what to do. They gave you their name in hopes of getting a
> Christmas card from you. Miss Manners would do that.


perhaps a tip of the hat on the way out.