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On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 19:20:20 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote: >On 2016-08-21 6:59 PM, cshenk wrote: > >> Yes, it's a round shape. Here it is cut across (normally 1/2 inch >> thick but I have mine cut by the butcher to 1 inch thick) to 'steaks'. >> Sorry if the name didnt match what you are used to but we live in >> different sales areas. 'Pork Loin Steak' is a cut across the loin that >> looks a bit like Filet Mignon (wider and normally thinner). When cut >> thin, it's locally called 'Loin Chops' or 'Boneless Pork Chops'. >> >> Best I can tell is when cut thick it's marketed as 'steak' and when cut >> thin, as chop. I get a whole loin and have it chopped to 1inch thick >> 'steaks' (nominally 17-22 depending on loin) then vacuum seal them in >> packs of 2 for the freezer. >> > > >Tenderloin. Tenderloin. Tenderloin. Not Loin... repeat 5 times. You'll be lucky! |
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On 8/21/2016 7:26 PM, cshenk wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote in rec.food.cooking: > >> On 2016-08-21 6:59 PM, cshenk wrote: >> >>> Yes, it's a round shape. Here it is cut across (normally 1/2 inch >>> thick but I have mine cut by the butcher to 1 inch thick) to >>> 'steaks'. Sorry if the name didnt match what you are used to but >>> we live in different sales areas. 'Pork Loin Steak' is a cut >>> across the loin that looks a bit like Filet Mignon (wider and >>> normally thinner). When cut thin, it's locally called 'Loin Chops' >>> or 'Boneless Pork Chops'. >>> >>> Best I can tell is when cut thick it's marketed as 'steak' and when >>> cut thin, as chop. I get a whole loin and have it chopped to 1inch >>> thick 'steaks' (nominally 17-22 depending on loin) then vacuum seal >>> them in packs of 2 for the freezer. >>> >> >> >> Tenderloin. Tenderloin. Tenderloin. Not Loin... repeat 5 times. > > SAME DAMN PICTURE. GOT IT YET?????? > No, you don't get it. Pork tenderloin is not the same as pork steak. Jill |
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On 8/21/2016 5:59 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>> Interesting. For some of us, pork steak is pork shoulder sliced into >>> steaks. Here in STL, pork steak is a popular choice for grilling. No >>> marinade for me; I use a dry rub then hickory smoke. >> >> Depending on where you are, the terms can be interchangable when it >> comes to pork. Currently on sale here at Harris Teeters: Pork Loin >> Steak, Pork Shoulder Steak. Other markets may vary but here, it's most >> of a shape of a cut I think. >> > Where I live pork tenderloin is boneless and sort of round. It does not > resemble a steak. > > http://tinyurl.com/jtdpvtp > > Jill > > And not to be confused with the larger loin that was on the other side of the bone. There is a lot of error on that term too. |
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On 8/21/2016 6:04 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-08-21 5:48 PM, cshenk wrote: >> jmcquown wrote in rec.food.cooking: > >>> Oh, and pork tenderloin and pork steaks are two totally different >>> cuts of meat where I shop. >>> >>> Jill >> >> Yours must be labeling only the shoulder by that name then? Just a >> difference in area marketing then. >> > I think you must be very confused about the cut of pork she is referring > to. She was quite specific about it being tenderloin, not loin. It is > the pork equivalent to a beef tenderloin, a long, lean piece of tender > meat from the inside of the loin. > > http://www.thekitchn.com/whats-the-d...-basics-213408 > > Thank you, Dave. I tried but she is still doesn't seem to understand I said tenderloin. The tenderloin is not "steak" no matter how you slice it. ![]() Jill |
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On 8/21/2016 5:48 PM, cshenk wrote:
> jmcquown wrote in rec.food.cooking: > >> On 8/21/2016 2:51 PM, cshenk wrote: >>> jmcquown wrote in rec.food.cooking: >>> >> Oh, and pork tenderloin and pork steaks are two totally different >> cuts of meat where I shop. >> >> Jill > > Yours must be labeling only the shoulder by that name then? Just a > difference in area marketing then. > Pork *tenderloin* is not cut from the shoulder. It isn't anything like pork steak. Do you really think I don't know what I bought and what I have in my freezer? I've got both and they are nothing alike other than they both come from a pig. All I said was I didn't want to marinate the pork tenderloin. You turned this into pork loin (wrong), then suddenly morphed to pork steaks. I never mentioned pork steaks. I said the other option was marinated *flank* steak. It seems to me you got your knickers in a twist because I didn't want to use an Asian type (soy sauce) marinade. BTDT, it's boring. Jill |
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On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 8:39:31 AM UTC-4, Jill McQuown wrote:
> On 8/21/2016 6:04 PM, Dave Smith wrote: > > On 2016-08-21 5:48 PM, cshenk wrote: > >> jmcquown wrote in rec.food.cooking: > > > >>> Oh, and pork tenderloin and pork steaks are two totally different > >>> cuts of meat where I shop. > >>> > >>> Jill > >> > >> Yours must be labeling only the shoulder by that name then? Just a > >> difference in area marketing then. > >> > > I think you must be very confused about the cut of pork she is referring > > to. She was quite specific about it being tenderloin, not loin. It is > > the pork equivalent to a beef tenderloin, a long, lean piece of tender > > meat from the inside of the loin. > > > > http://www.thekitchn.com/whats-the-d...-basics-213408 > > > > > Thank you, Dave. I tried but she is still doesn't seem to understand I > said tenderloin. The tenderloin is not "steak" no matter how you slice > it. ![]() > > Jill You could cut a loin into nice slices and call them steaks, but it still wouldn't be tenderloin. Slices of pork tenderloin would be what, 2-3 inches in diameter? <http://www.thekitchn.com/whats-the-difference-between-pork-loin-and-pork-tenderloin-meat-basics-213408> Cindy Hamilton |
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On 8/22/2016 9:21 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 8:39:31 AM UTC-4, Jill McQuown wrote: >> On 8/21/2016 6:04 PM, Dave Smith wrote: >>> On 2016-08-21 5:48 PM, cshenk wrote: >>>> jmcquown wrote in rec.food.cooking: >>> >>>>> Oh, and pork tenderloin and pork steaks are two totally different >>>>> cuts of meat where I shop. >>>>> >>>>> Jill >>>> >>>> Yours must be labeling only the shoulder by that name then? Just a >>>> difference in area marketing then. >>>> >>> I think you must be very confused about the cut of pork she is referring >>> to. She was quite specific about it being tenderloin, not loin. It is >>> the pork equivalent to a beef tenderloin, a long, lean piece of tender >>> meat from the inside of the loin. >>> >>> http://www.thekitchn.com/whats-the-d...-basics-213408 >>> >>> >> Thank you, Dave. I tried but she is still doesn't seem to understand I >> said tenderloin. The tenderloin is not "steak" no matter how you slice >> it. ![]() >> >> Jill > > You could cut a loin into nice slices and call them > steaks, but it still wouldn't be tenderloin. Slices > of pork tenderloin would be what, 2-3 inches > in diameter? > > <http://www.thekitchn.com/whats-the-difference-between-pork-loin-and-pork-tenderloin-meat-basics-213408> > > Cindy Hamilton > I don't know why she's beating this dead horse (so to speak). I did not mention pork steaks, she brought it up. I said pork tenderloin vs. flank steak. Jill |
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On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 09:19:04 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote: >On 8/21/2016 7:04 PM, cshenk wrote: >> wrote in rec.food.cooking: >> >>> On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 17:03:10 -0400, jmcquown > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 8/21/2016 2:51 PM, cshenk wrote: >>>>> jmcquown wrote in rec.food.cooking: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sorry to upset you. To me, pork loin IS pork steak. Meantime, >>> enjoy >> your version and i will try to remember to not try to help >>> if you ask >> what I like doing with such. >>>>> >>>> You didn't upset me. I'm simply not interested in everything >>>> tasting "Asian". (Yes, we know you lived in Japan.) I >>>> specifically said I wasn't interested in marinating the pork >>>> tenderloin. >>>> >>>> Oh, and pork tenderloin and pork steaks are two totally different >>>> cuts of meat where I shop. >>>> >>>> Jill >>> >>> I lived in Japan (as a civilian amongst Japanese) for several years, >>> my son was even born there and has dual citizenship. Frankly a lot of >>> what she says is mis-information. >> >> Really? Give me one that isnt a mis-translation from someone else. >> >I would really like her to prove pork steaks are the same as pork >tenderloin. I'll bet she can't do it. Because they aren't the same. > >Jill There is fat in a pork steak, there's none with pork tenderloin. There is sometimes that silvery stuff (tendons?) left on the side and I always remove that. In fact, the tenderloin needs something to lift it, with no fat it can be pretty flavourless. |
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On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 09:33:14 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote: >On 8/22/2016 9:21 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote: >> On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 8:39:31 AM UTC-4, Jill McQuown wrote: >>> On 8/21/2016 6:04 PM, Dave Smith wrote: >>>> On 2016-08-21 5:48 PM, cshenk wrote: >>>>> jmcquown wrote in rec.food.cooking: >>>> >>>>>> Oh, and pork tenderloin and pork steaks are two totally different >>>>>> cuts of meat where I shop. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jill >>>>> >>>>> Yours must be labeling only the shoulder by that name then? Just a >>>>> difference in area marketing then. >>>>> >>>> I think you must be very confused about the cut of pork she is referring >>>> to. She was quite specific about it being tenderloin, not loin. It is >>>> the pork equivalent to a beef tenderloin, a long, lean piece of tender >>>> meat from the inside of the loin. >>>> >>>> http://www.thekitchn.com/whats-the-d...-basics-213408 >>>> >>>> >>> Thank you, Dave. I tried but she is still doesn't seem to understand I >>> said tenderloin. The tenderloin is not "steak" no matter how you slice >>> it. ![]() >>> >>> Jill >> >> You could cut a loin into nice slices and call them >> steaks, but it still wouldn't be tenderloin. Slices >> of pork tenderloin would be what, 2-3 inches >> in diameter? >> >> <http://www.thekitchn.com/whats-the-difference-between-pork-loin-and-pork-tenderloin-meat-basics-213408> >> >> Cindy Hamilton >> >I don't know why she's beating this dead horse (so to speak). I did not >mention pork steaks, she brought it up. I said pork tenderloin vs. >flank steak. > >Jill Of the two, I'd always pick flank steak. Yesterday however I spent the afternoon at my granddaughters, six kids under five, birthday party for her youngest, my youngest great granddaughter. Figuring one year olds don't know which side is up, I gave her 300 Kirkland diapers, it made her mum very happy, although I disapprove of disposable diapers ![]() be bothered with any supper, changed to a nice cotton caftan, put my feet up and had a couple of glasses of red wine ![]() Now have just put ganache on top of chocolate welcome home cheesecake for someone at bridge. https://postimg.org/image/7eowqvnkj/ Hope the link works! |
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jmcquown wrote:
> > On 8/21/2016 7:04 PM, cshenk wrote: > > wrote in rec.food.cooking: > > > >> On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 17:03:10 -0400, jmcquown > > >> wrote: > >> > >>> On 8/21/2016 2:51 PM, cshenk wrote: > >>>> jmcquown wrote in rec.food.cooking: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Sorry to upset you. To me, pork loin IS pork steak. Meantime, > >> enjoy >> your version and i will try to remember to not try to help > >> if you ask >> what I like doing with such. > >>>> > >>> You didn't upset me. I'm simply not interested in everything > >>> tasting "Asian". (Yes, we know you lived in Japan.) I > >>> specifically said I wasn't interested in marinating the pork > >>> tenderloin. > >>> > >>> Oh, and pork tenderloin and pork steaks are two totally different > >>> cuts of meat where I shop. > >>> > >>> Jill > >> > >> I lived in Japan (as a civilian amongst Japanese) for several years, > >> my son was even born there and has dual citizenship. Frankly a lot of > >> what she says is mis-information. > > > > Really? Give me one that isnt a mis-translation from someone else. > > > I would really like her to prove pork steaks are the same as pork > tenderloin. I'll bet she can't do it. Because they aren't the same. > > Jill I wish you would just cook the damn thing and be done with this silly ongoing argument. |
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![]() "Gary" > wrote in message ... > jmcquown wrote: >> >> On 8/21/2016 7:04 PM, cshenk wrote: >> > wrote in rec.food.cooking: >> > >> >> On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 17:03:10 -0400, jmcquown > >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> On 8/21/2016 2:51 PM, cshenk wrote: >> >>>> jmcquown wrote in rec.food.cooking: >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Sorry to upset you. To me, pork loin IS pork steak. Meantime, >> >> enjoy >> your version and i will try to remember to not try to help >> >> if you ask >> what I like doing with such. >> >>>> >> >>> You didn't upset me. I'm simply not interested in everything >> >>> tasting "Asian". (Yes, we know you lived in Japan.) I >> >>> specifically said I wasn't interested in marinating the pork >> >>> tenderloin. >> >>> >> >>> Oh, and pork tenderloin and pork steaks are two totally different >> >>> cuts of meat where I shop. >> >>> >> >>> Jill >> >> >> >> I lived in Japan (as a civilian amongst Japanese) for several years, >> >> my son was even born there and has dual citizenship. Frankly a lot of >> >> what she says is mis-information. >> > >> > Really? Give me one that isnt a mis-translation from someone else. >> > >> I would really like her to prove pork steaks are the same as pork >> tenderloin. I'll bet she can't do it. Because they aren't the same. >> >> Jill > > I wish you would just cook the damn thing and be done with this silly > ongoing argument. Yes, let's get back to serious stuff like funerals, ferrets, dogs, cats, politics etc. LOL Cheri |
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On 8/22/2016 7:44 AM, wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 09:19:04 -0400, jmcquown > > wrote: > >> On 8/21/2016 7:04 PM, cshenk wrote: >>> wrote in rec.food.cooking: >>> >>>> On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 17:03:10 -0400, jmcquown > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 8/21/2016 2:51 PM, cshenk wrote: >>>>>> jmcquown wrote in rec.food.cooking: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry to upset you. To me, pork loin IS pork steak. Meantime, >>>> enjoy >> your version and i will try to remember to not try to help >>>> if you ask >> what I like doing with such. >>>>>> >>>>> You didn't upset me. I'm simply not interested in everything >>>>> tasting "Asian". (Yes, we know you lived in Japan.) I >>>>> specifically said I wasn't interested in marinating the pork >>>>> tenderloin. >>>>> >>>>> Oh, and pork tenderloin and pork steaks are two totally different >>>>> cuts of meat where I shop. >>>>> >>>>> Jill >>>> >>>> I lived in Japan (as a civilian amongst Japanese) for several years, >>>> my son was even born there and has dual citizenship. Frankly a lot of >>>> what she says is mis-information. >>> >>> Really? Give me one that isnt a mis-translation from someone else. >>> >> I would really like her to prove pork steaks are the same as pork >> tenderloin. I'll bet she can't do it. Because they aren't the same. >> >> Jill > > There is fat in a pork steak, there's none with pork tenderloin. There > is sometimes that silvery stuff (tendons?) left on the side and I > always remove that. In fact, the tenderloin needs something to lift > it, with no fat it can be pretty flavourless. > I paint them with mustard, herb flavoured (sage?) if I have some, then roll them in Panko and roast for about 45 minutes. Graham |
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On 8/22/2016 3:19 PM, Cheri wrote:
> > "Gary" > wrote in message > ... >> I wish you would just cook the damn thing and be done with this silly >> ongoing argument. > > Yes, let's get back to serious stuff like funerals, ferrets, dogs, cats, > politics etc. LOL > > Cheri I had the nerve to I actually post about food. Mea culpa. ![]() Jill |
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On 2016-08-22 6:37 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 8/22/2016 3:19 PM, Cheri wrote: >> >> "Gary" > wrote in message >> ... > >>> I wish you would just cook the damn thing and be done with this silly >>> ongoing argument. >> >> Yes, let's get back to serious stuff like funerals, ferrets, dogs, cats, >> politics etc. LOL >> >> Cheri > > I had the nerve to I actually post about food. Mea culpa. ![]() Yeah... and confusing pork tenderloin with pork steaks ;-) |
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On 8/22/2016 4:12 PM, graham wrote:
>> > I paint them with mustard, herb flavoured (sage?) if I have some, then > roll them in Panko and roast for about 45 minutes. > Graham That's pretty much how I prepare pork tenderloin. I brush it with Dijon mustard then roll it in breadcrumbs seasoned with sage, S&P and garlic. Forty-five minutes sounds a bit long, though. I generally roast it 20-25 minutes. Jill |
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On 8/22/2016 6:38 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-08-22 6:37 PM, jmcquown wrote: >> On 8/22/2016 3:19 PM, Cheri wrote: >>> >>> Yes, let's get back to serious stuff like funerals, ferrets, dogs, cats, >>> politics etc. LOL >>> >>> Cheri >> >> I had the nerve to I actually post about food. Mea culpa. ![]() > > > Yeah... and confusing pork tenderloin with pork steaks ;-) > I had no intention of cooking pork steak (even though I do happen to have one in the freezer). I should be ashamed I didn't want to use a soy sauce based marinade for hmmm, what was it again? LOL Jill |
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On 2016-08-22 6:57 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 8/22/2016 6:38 PM, Dave Smith wrote: >> On 2016-08-22 6:37 PM, jmcquown wrote: >> Yeah... and confusing pork tenderloin with pork steaks ;-) >> > I had no intention of cooking pork steak (even though I do happen to > have one in the freezer). I should be ashamed I didn't want to use a > soy sauce based marinade for hmmm, what was it again? LOL > What can I say? I have used pork tenderloin marinated in soy sauce and other stuff as a sort of satay for years. It was always great. |
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On 8/22/2016 7:10 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-08-22 6:57 PM, jmcquown wrote: >> On 8/22/2016 6:38 PM, Dave Smith wrote: >>> On 2016-08-22 6:37 PM, jmcquown wrote: > >>> Yeah... and confusing pork tenderloin with pork steaks ;-) >>> >> I had no intention of cooking pork steak (even though I do happen to >> have one in the freezer). I should be ashamed I didn't want to use a >> soy sauce based marinade for hmmm, what was it again? LOL >> > > > What can I say? I have used pork tenderloin marinated in soy sauce and > other stuff as a sort of satay for years. It was always great. > What can I say? Soy sauce marinade (regardless of the cut of meat) gets boring after 40 years. <shrug> Jill |
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On 8/22/2016 4:46 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 8/22/2016 4:12 PM, graham wrote: >>> >> I paint them with mustard, herb flavoured (sage?) if I have some, then >> roll them in Panko and roast for about 45 minutes. >> Graham > > That's pretty much how I prepare pork tenderloin. I brush it with Dijon > mustard then roll it in breadcrumbs seasoned with sage, S&P and garlic. > Forty-five minutes sounds a bit long, though. I generally roast it > 20-25 minutes. > > Jill Another way is in one of Delia Smith's books (UK). Poke garlic slivers into the TL and then paint it with a mix of cider (hard cider in the US) and butter the tuck slices of Granny Smith apples around it and roast. My mother used to roll the TL and tie it with string. Then stuff the centre with sage and onion stuffing. Graham Graham |
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"graham" wrote in message ...
On 8/22/2016 4:46 PM, jmcquown wrote: > On 8/22/2016 4:12 PM, graham wrote: >>> >> I paint them with mustard, herb flavoured (sage?) if I have some, then >> roll them in Panko and roast for about 45 minutes. >> Graham > > That's pretty much how I prepare pork tenderloin. I brush it with Dijon > mustard then roll it in breadcrumbs seasoned with sage, S&P and garlic. > Forty-five minutes sounds a bit long, though. I generally roast it > 20-25 minutes. > > Jill Another way is in one of Delia Smith's books (UK). Poke garlic slivers into the TL and then paint it with a mix of cider (hard cider in the US) and butter the tuck slices of Granny Smith apples around it and roast. My mother used to roll the TL and tie it with string. Then stuff the centre with sage and onion stuffing. Graham -------------- All sounds familiar ![]() -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk |
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On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 19:54:13 -0600, graham > wrote:
>On 8/22/2016 4:46 PM, jmcquown wrote: >> On 8/22/2016 4:12 PM, graham wrote: >>>> >>> I paint them with mustard, herb flavoured (sage?) if I have some, then >>> roll them in Panko and roast for about 45 minutes. >>> Graham >> >> That's pretty much how I prepare pork tenderloin. I brush it with Dijon >> mustard then roll it in breadcrumbs seasoned with sage, S&P and garlic. >> Forty-five minutes sounds a bit long, though. I generally roast it >> 20-25 minutes. >> >> Jill >Another way is in one of Delia Smith's books (UK). Poke garlic slivers >into the TL and then paint it with a mix of cider (hard cider in the US) >and butter the tuck slices of Granny Smith apples around it and roast. >My mother used to roll the TL and tie it with string. Then stuff the >centre with sage and onion stuffing. >Graham >Graham I love both of those methods, if you had enough people you could use two with stuffing between, it's pretty bland meat and the sage and onion stuffing gives it great flavour. Time was the cider was difficult to come by but there has been a resurgence of interest in it and there are more brands than ever at the liquor commission, even Strongbow! |
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On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 6:47:03 PM UTC-4, Jill McQuown wrote:
> On 8/22/2016 4:12 PM, graham wrote: > >> > > I paint them with mustard, herb flavoured (sage?) if I have some, then > > roll them in Panko and roast for about 45 minutes. > > Graham > > That's pretty much how I prepare pork tenderloin. I brush it with Dijon > mustard then roll it in breadcrumbs seasoned with sage, S&P and garlic. > Forty-five minutes sounds a bit long, though. I generally roast it > 20-25 minutes. > > Jill I generally make a paste of: 0.25 cup olive oil 2 T minced fresh parsley, or 1 T dried 2 t crushed red pepper flakes 2 garlic cloves, crushed 1.5 t ground cumin 1 t dried thyme 1 t paprika 1 large bay leaf, crumbled salt and pepper to taste Smear it on, let it rest for half a day and then grill it. Lately I've been using zatar instead of thyme, although I don't know if it really makes a difference with all the other flavors going on in there. Here's another one that I like: <http://www.food.com/recipe/sate-babi-or-ayam-65246> Cindy Hamilton |
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Sqwertz wrote:
> > On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 10:23:40 -0400, jmcquown wrote: > > > I'm torn. At the moment it's a toss between marinating a flank steak or > > pork tenderloin (which I likely won't marinate). I'm thinking about > > grilling unless it rains on my parade. > > Why not cook some pork loin marinated in soy sauce? Saw this this morning and was the funniest post here in a long time. Good one, Steve. LOL! |
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On 8/23/2016 6:44 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 6:47:03 PM UTC-4, Jill McQuown wrote: >> >> That's pretty much how I prepare pork tenderloin. I brush it with Dijon >> mustard then roll it in breadcrumbs seasoned with sage, S&P and garlic. >> Forty-five minutes sounds a bit long, though. I generally roast it >> 20-25 minutes. >> >> Jill > > I generally make a paste of: > > 0.25 cup olive oil > 2 T minced fresh parsley, or 1 T dried > 2 t crushed red pepper flakes > 2 garlic cloves, crushed > 1.5 t ground cumin > 1 t dried thyme > 1 t paprika > 1 large bay leaf, crumbled > salt and pepper to taste > > Smear it on, let it rest for half a day and then grill it. Lately > I've been using zatar instead of thyme, although I don't know if it > really makes a difference with all the other flavors going on in there. > Sounds tasty, thanks for the paste suggestion. Yep, if the weather cooperates I can certainly grill it. Along with some vegetables. ![]() > Here's another one that I like: > > <http://www.food.com/recipe/sate-babi-or-ayam-65246> > > Cindy Hamilton > The ingredients aren't really to my taste but someone else might like to try it. ![]() Jill |
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