Bruce wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> In article >, says...
> >
> > Ophelia wrote:
> > >
> > > Why is monosodium glutamate despised here so much? I use it,
> > > although in minute amounts, and I it would be good to know what
> > > the big problem is.
> >
> > It's just the purists here that hate "chemicals." They will all die
> > just as quick as everyone else without ever knowing about good
> > taste in foods.
>
> To think that you need added chemicals by the food industry to make
> your food taste better, is the weirdest logic.

MSG is a natural component of many foods, one of the primary which is
mushrooms.

I get a giggle when folks post MSG is bad then post recipes with lots
of mushrooms.

Carol



--

In article >, cshenk1
@cox.net says...
>
> Bruce wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
> > In article >, says...
> > >
> > > Ophelia wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Why is monosodium glutamate despised here so much? I use it,
> > > > although in minute amounts, and I it would be good to know what
> > > > the big problem is.
> > >
> > > It's just the purists here that hate "chemicals." They will all die
> > > just as quick as everyone else without ever knowing about good
> > > taste in foods.
> >
> > To think that you need added chemicals by the food industry to make
> > your food taste better, is the weirdest logic.
>
> MSG is a natural component of many foods, one of the primary which is
> mushrooms.
>
> I get a giggle when folks post MSG is bad then post recipes with lots
> of mushrooms.

I wasn't talking about MSG. I was referring to Gary, who seems to think
that food tastes best after the industry has turned it into a science
project.

On Mon, 05 Sep 2016 22:27:41 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:

> Ophelia wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
> > "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >
> > Autolyzed yeast extract is just their quaint way of hiding
> > monosodium glutamate.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> > ==========
> >
> > Why is monosodium glutamate despised here so much? I use it,
> > although in minute amounts, and I it would be good to know what the
> > big problem is.
>
> Many reasons Ophelia but most based on thinking MSG is bad for you.
> Used properly, MSG is used to replace salt as it's a lower sodium item
> and doesnt make you want to salt the food. You use it in pinches for
> that. With reasonable use you can reduce your sodium intake by 40%.
>
> Most popular is to complain of MSG in chinese food but studies to date
> have shown severely low levels of reaction to MSG, but instead people
> not used to that cuisine, reacting to iodine (seaweed and shellfish)
> and other shellfish components. It became popular to blame MSG in the
> late 90's and the pervasive idea continues today. There are no
> scientifically made studies that show any MSG reaction among the
> populace once they rule out the more likely items like shellfish and
> derivatives from those.
>
Back in the days when MSG got a bad reputation, food "intolerances"
were virtually unknown. Overdo it and you get a headache, at least
that was my exSIL's symptom. I suppose there are different symptoms,
but that's what happened to her and she could point to eating Chinese
food. She cooked a lot of Chinese food at home too, so she was able
to narrow it down to using MSG or not. I don't need MSG or salt for
that matter. Soy sauce provides enough salt for me.



--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"cshenk" wrote in message
...

Ophelia wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
> ...
>
>
> Autolyzed yeast extract is just their quaint way of hiding
> monosodium glutamate.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
> ==========
>
> Why is monosodium glutamate despised here so much? I use it,
> although in minute amounts, and I it would be good to know what the
> big problem is.

Many reasons Ophelia but most based on thinking MSG is bad for you.
Used properly, MSG is used to replace salt as it's a lower sodium item
and doesnt make you want to salt the food. You use it in pinches for
that. With reasonable use you can reduce your sodium intake by 40%.

Most popular is to complain of MSG in chinese food but studies to date
have shown severely low levels of reaction to MSG, but instead people
not used to that cuisine, reacting to iodine (seaweed and shellfish)
and other shellfish components. It became popular to blame MSG in the
late 90's and the pervasive idea continues today. There are no
scientifically made studies that show any MSG reaction among the
populace once they rule out the more likely items like shellfish and
derivatives from those.

Carol
===========

Interesting, thank you!



--

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 12:06:00 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> In article >, cshenk1
> @cox.net says...
> >
> > Bruce wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> >
> > > In article >, says...
> > > >
> > > > Ophelia wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Why is monosodium glutamate despised here so much? I use it,
> > > > > although in minute amounts, and I it would be good to know what
> > > > > the big problem is.
> > > >
> > > > It's just the purists here that hate "chemicals." They will all die
> > > > just as quick as everyone else without ever knowing about good
> > > > taste in foods.
> > >
> > > To think that you need added chemicals by the food industry to make
> > > your food taste better, is the weirdest logic.
> >
> > MSG is a natural component of many foods, one of the primary which is
> > mushrooms.
> >
> > I get a giggle when folks post MSG is bad then post recipes with lots
> > of mushrooms.
>
> I wasn't talking about MSG. I was referring to Gary, who seems to think
> that food tastes best after the industry has turned it into a science
> project.

Industry works very hard to hit our evolutionary triggers for "tastes good".
I can't blame Gary for responding to their manipulation. Heck, I occasionally
hit the snack food machine in our break room at work and buy Cheetos or
something.

Cindy Hamilton

In article >,
says...
>
> On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 12:06:00 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > In article >, cshenk1
> > @cox.net says...
> > >
> > > Bruce wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> > >
> > > > In article >, says...
> > > > >
> > > > > Ophelia wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why is monosodium glutamate despised here so much? I use it,
> > > > > > although in minute amounts, and I it would be good to know what
> > > > > > the big problem is.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's just the purists here that hate "chemicals." They will all die
> > > > > just as quick as everyone else without ever knowing about good
> > > > > taste in foods.
> > > >
> > > > To think that you need added chemicals by the food industry to make
> > > > your food taste better, is the weirdest logic.
> > >
> > > MSG is a natural component of many foods, one of the primary which is
> > > mushrooms.
> > >
> > > I get a giggle when folks post MSG is bad then post recipes with lots
> > > of mushrooms.
> >
> > I wasn't talking about MSG. I was referring to Gary, who seems to think
> > that food tastes best after the industry has turned it into a science
> > project.
>
> Industry works very hard to hit our evolutionary triggers for "tastes good".

Of course, but that doesn't mean that food gets better after the
industry has messed with it.

> I can't blame Gary for responding to their manipulation.

I'm not blaming anybody either.

> Heck, I occasionally
> hit the snack food machine in our break room at work and buy Cheetos
> or something.

Who doesn't? Not that I know what Cheetos are.

On 2016-09-06, cshenk > wrote:

> It became popular to blame MSG in the late 90's.....

?????

The "Chinese restaurant syndrome" was around and common way back in
the 60s. By the 90s, MSG had been declared "generally recognized as
safe" (GRAS), much like GMOs are, today. (as if.....) 8|

nb

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> Bruce wrote:
> > I wasn't talking about MSG. I was referring to Gary, who seems to think
> > that food tastes best after the industry has turned it into a science
> > project.
>
> Industry works very hard to hit our evolutionary triggers for "tastes good".
> I can't blame Gary for responding to their manipulation. Heck, I occasionally
> hit the snack food machine in our break room at work and buy Cheetos or
> something.

As I don't eat anything all the time, I don't worry about ingredients.
If it's good for the taste buds, I'll go for it and then move on to
other tasty foods.

Bruce wrote:
>
> I wasn't talking about MSG. I was referring to Gary, who seems to think
> that food tastes best after the industry has turned it into a science
> project.

In every Science Fair, there are always winners.

Einstein is most known for his theory of relativity as an adult.
In his younger years, he invented the beer atom, probably
his best invention. ;-D

In article >, says...
>
> Bruce wrote:
> >
> > I wasn't talking about MSG. I was referring to Gary, who seems to think
> > that food tastes best after the industry has turned it into a science
> > project.
>
> In every Science Fair, there are always winners.
>
> Einstein is most known for his theory of relativity as an adult.
> In his younger years, he invented the beer atom, probably
> his best invention. ;-D

But he didn't put the theory of relativity in his dressing.

On 9/6/2016 12:03 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
> notbob wrote:
>> On 2016-09-06, cshenk > wrote:
>>
>>> It became popular to blame MSG in the late 90's.....
>>
>> ?????
>>
>> The "Chinese restaurant syndrome" was around and common way back in
>> the 60s. By the 90s, MSG had been declared "generally recognized as
>> safe" (GRAS), much like GMOs are, today. (as if.....) 8|
>>
>> nb
>
> .That Won-Ton Soup Headache.: The Chinese Restaurant Syndrome, MSG and
> the Making of American Food, 1968.1980
>
> Ian Mosby*
>
> *Department of History, York University, Toronto, ON, Canada. E-mail:
>
>
> Soc Hist Med first published online February 2, 2009 doi:10.1093/shm/hkn098
>
> [Reprinted without permission (sue me!)]
>

I stopped reading after it was stated it was the result of racism. Is
there a summary beyond that from this article? Maybe that MSG has
caused a world full of gluten intolerance?

Taxed and Spent wrote:
> On 9/6/2016 12:03 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
>> notbob wrote:
>>> On 2016-09-06, cshenk > wrote:
>>>
>>>> It became popular to blame MSG in the late 90's.....
>>>
>>> ?????
>>>
>>> The "Chinese restaurant syndrome" was around and common way back in
>>> the 60s. By the 90s, MSG had been declared "generally recognized as
>>> safe" (GRAS), much like GMOs are, today. (as if.....) 8|
>>>
>>> nb
>>
>> .That Won-Ton Soup Headache.: The Chinese Restaurant Syndrome, MSG and
>> the Making of American Food, 1968.1980
>>
>> Ian Mosby*
>>
>> *Department of History, York University, Toronto, ON, Canada. E-mail:
>>
>>
>> Soc Hist Med first published online February 2, 2009 doi:10.1093/shm/hkn098
>>
>> [Reprinted without permission (sue me!)]
>>
>
> I stopped reading after it was stated it was the result of racism. Is
> there a summary beyond that from this article? Maybe that MSG has
> caused a world full of gluten intolerance?

It sounds like you don't like the racism theory. Why not?

On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 9:10:12 AM UTC-10, tert in seattle wrote:
> notbob wrote:
> > On 2016-09-06, cshenk > wrote:
> >
> >> It became popular to blame MSG in the late 90's.....
> >
> > ?????
> >
> > The "Chinese restaurant syndrome" was around and common way back in
> > the 60s. By the 90s, MSG had been declared "generally recognized as
> > safe" (GRAS), much like GMOs are, today. (as if.....) 8|
> >
> > nb
>
> .That Won-Ton Soup Headache.: The Chinese Restaurant Syndrome, MSG and
> the Making of American Food, 1968.1980
>
> Ian Mosby*
>
> *Department of History, York University, Toronto, ON, Canada. E-mail:
>
>
> Soc Hist Med first published online February 2, 2009 doi:10.1093/shm/hkn098
>
> [Reprinted without permission (sue me!)]

Well okay - I sue thee!

All I know is that there's certain dishes that won't be right without MSG. Oddly enough, one of them is potato salad. Don't ask, don't tell, is my motto.

>
> In an interview published on 8 October 1972, Lorne Greene, the star of
> television's Bonanza, tried to set the record straight about his recent
> hospitalisation. .It was the Chinese restaurant syndrome; that's all I
> had., Greene told the New York Times. "I had had a light breakfast that
> day and practically nothing for lunch, and my wife and I went out to a
> Chinese restaurant for dinner and the food was de-goddamn-licious. Shrimp,
> beef, fried and sizzled, and like an idiot I put some more soy sauce
> on the rice, and that stuff is filled with monosodium glutamate. I
> kept talking and eating and talking and eating and suddenly I felt my
> stomach saying, .action stations., and I knew I was in for a siege of
> something.1" Greene fainted as he was leaving the restaurant, and was
> placed in the hospital under observation for four days. According to
> Greene, his doctor told him that it was .gastric distress with extra
> heartbeats., to which Greene added: .That's what happens when you have
> Chinese restaurant syndrome. But it was no heart attack!.2
>
> Greene's account of his experience with the Chinese restaurant syndrome
> is, in many ways, typical of the ambiguous popular and scientific
> understanding of this unique medical condition during the 1970s. It
> was at once understood as a condition specific to Chinese food but the
> widely accepted cause of which was the common food additive, monosodium
> glutamate (MSG). It was also a condition that was not considered serious,
> but the perceived effects of which could range from a mild headache to
> hospitalisation. In part, these often contradictory understandings of the
> Chinese restaurant syndrome were the result of a protracted scientific
> controversy over the health risks associated with MSG. Up to the present,
> fierce debates continue to rage over whether or not MSG is responsible
> for everything from mild post-dinner discomfort to brain damage and
> psychotic reactions.3 The 1968 .discovery. of the Chinese restaurant
> syndrome proved to be an important catalyst for these ongoing debates. In
> particular, public concern about the condition played a key role in the
> struggle by consumer advocates in their fight for stricter food labelling
> laws and Food and Drug Administration (FDA) reforms. At the same time,
> however, Greene's association between the Chinese restaurant syndrome, his
> hospitalisation and a set of somewhat vaguely defined symptoms reflected
> the fact that, within a few years of its .discovery., the condition was
> also being increasingly associated with nearly any unpleasant symptoms
> experienced after consuming Chinese food. In large part this was because,
> by the late 1970s, the syndrome had become .Chinese. in more than name
> alone within both the medical and popular literature on the condition,
> despite the continued widespread use of MSG by major American food
> manufacturers.
>
> This paper seeks to situate Greene's experience of the Chinese restaurant
> syndrome within the context of the formative years of its existence as
> a recognised medical condition. While the important role that the 1968
> .discovery. of the syndrome played in the growth of public opposition
> to the use of food additives in the United States during this period has
> been well established by historians such as Jordan Sand, Warren Bellasco
> and Harvey Levenstein, the actual transformations that the medical and
> popular understanding of the syndrome underwent following its emergence
> have received little attention.4
>
> This paper attempts to fill this gap as well as to contribute to the
> growing literature on the social construction of medical knowledge by
> examining how, between 1968 and 1980, the syndrome came to be widely
> recognised as a legitimate medical condition by a range of doctors,
> scientists and sufferers, despite the best efforts of sceptics to
> discredit research into the condition.5 The following analysis therefore
> examines the Chinese restaurant syndrome and its close association with
> Chinese cooking practices by focusing specifically on the work of the
> mainly American doctors and scientists who published research on the
> condition in the decade following its discovery. In so doing, the paper
> argues that many of the basic assumptions about the Chinese restaurant
> syndrome were, at core, the product of a racialized discourse that framed
> much of the scientific, medical and popular discussion surrounding the
> condition. Debates over the syndrome's causes and existence brought to the
> surface and, in a way, granted a renewed medical legitimacy to a number
> of long-held assumptions about the strangely .exotic., .bizarre. and
> .excessive. practices associated with Chinese culture. This ultimately
> meant that few of those studying the Chinese restaurant syndrome would
> question the presumed .ethnic. character of the condition.
>
> To a certain degree, the paper establishes the emergence and
> popularization of the Chinese restaurant syndrome in the late 1960s as
> simply another episode in a long history of American concerns over the
> safety of Chinese and other .oriental. foods.6 Food historian Harvey
> Levenstein has referred to these concerns as the .ever present fears of
> what was really taking place in the inscrutable Oriental kitchens., but
> they reflected a long-standing unease that white Americans had towards
> Chinese cultural practices more generally.7 These fears were at their
> peak during the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries when a whole
> host of .exotic., .deviant. and .unclean. practices such as the eating
> of dogs, cats, rats and snakes were commonly associated with Chinese
> cooking in the media as a means of reconfirming existing ideas about
> the unassimilability of Chinese immigrants.8 Such perceptions about
> Chinese cultural practices were also perpetuated by frequent journalistic
> exposés on questionable activities in American Chinatowns as well as
> the persistent targeting and surveillance of Chinese businesses by
> public health authorities. As Nyan Shah and Susan Craddock both show
> in their studies of San Francisco's Chinatown around the turn of the
> century, Chinese bodies and neighbourhoods were singled out as sources
> of disease and moral corruption and were, therefore, subject to a whole
> host of overtly racist laws and restrictions that were not applied to
> white neighbourhoods.9
>
> While the Chinese restaurant syndrome shares some common narrative
> themes with these earlier racially motivated health scares, an
> important difference is its significantly altered social context. By
> the 1970s, the kinds of explicitly racist laws that had all but barred
> Chinese immigration for much of the twentieth century had largely been
> removed. Moreover, as Asian immigration to the United States increased
> significantly, Chinese and other ethnic Asian restaurants were becoming
> more popular and numerous than ever.10 As this paper argues, however,
> the persisting strength of the association between Chinese cuisine
> and adverse reactions to the common additive MSG provides a lens into
> the ways in which, despite these larger changes in American society,
> certain fears of a Chinese-American .other. remained part of the popular
> imagination. Previous Section Next Section .Discovery. of the Chinese
> Restaurant Syndrome
>
> The term Chinese restaurant syndrome was first coined by Dr Robert Ho Man
> Kwok in a letter published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM)
> on 4 April 1968. Kwok, who was a senior research investigator at the
> National Biomedical Research Foundation as well as a Chinese immigrant
> living in the United States, described a syndrome which usually began
> 15 or 20 minutes after eating the first dish at a Chinese restaurant
> and lasted for about two hours. According to Kwok, the most prominent
> symptoms were .numbness at the back of the neck, gradually radiating
> to both arms and the back, general weakness and palpitation..11 While
> Kwok was himself of Cantonese descent, his letter also made it clear
> that he and many of his Chinese friends had only ever experienced the
> syndrome in an American context and, in particular, at restaurants
> serving .northern Chinese food.. He offered suggestions of a number
> of ingredients common to Chinese-American restaurants that might be
> responsible for his symptoms.including cooking wine, monosodium glutamate
> seasoning and the food's high sodium content.but ended his letter with
> a call for the journal's readers to begin their own investigations into
> this .peculiar syndrome..12
>
> Kwok's letter struck a chord with readers, who flooded the NEJM
> with personal accounts of the syndrome. While a few letter-writers
> claimed similar symptoms to those described by Kwok, most described
> significant variants. These included .a profuse, cold sweat. and .a most
> uncomfortable tightness on both sides of the head.; an intense .Chinese
> Headache., characterized by .a pounding, throbbing sensation in the head.;
> .palpitation and numbness above the diaphragm., as well as .weakness of
> the mouth.; .tightening of the face.; .dizziness.; and even a serious
> case of cerebrovascular thrombosis.13 Similarly, while Kwok singled out
> northern Chinese cuisine, few letter-writers made any distinction between
> the regional variant of Chinese food and their own experiences. Like
> Kwok's letter, however, none of the writers described experiencing the
> syndrome outside an American context. In fact, Kwok continued to stress
> this observation in later interviews, noting that he had never experienced
> the syndrome before his arrival in the United States.14
>
> In much the same way that Kwok's original observations regarding his own
> experiences with the syndrome were later interpreted to include a much
> broader range of post-eating experiences, many of those who responded
> to Kwok's letter also hypothesized about possible causes in a much
> more generalized way. Some attempted to interpret the causes in terms
> of common ingredients or practices in Chinese cooking, with suggestions
> including .duck sauce., .Chinese tea. or the .frozen food processing of
> Chinese vegetables.. An equal number of letters, however, interpreted the
> symptoms within a broader category of .oriental. eating practices. One,
> for instance, suggested that symptoms similar to those described by
> Kwok were experienced by more than 50 doctors' wives who attended a
> Polynesian luncheon and that it was later found that their illness
> may have been caused by the ingestion of imported mushrooms. Another
> letter pointed to the distinct possibility that the disorder described
> by Kwok should be called the .Japanese Restaurant Syndrome. because of
> the possibility that the symptoms were related to those experienced
> following the ingestion of puffer fish, which is known to contain a
> deadly toxin when prepared improperly.15
>
> In the face of these numerous personal anecdotes, the editors of the
> NEJM took a decidedly sceptical stance towards the syndrome. Tongues
> firmly in cheek, they offered the name .post-sino-cibal syndrome., or
> .sin-cib-syn., for the affliction which, they suggested, was finally
> brought to light by the .annals of anecdotal epidemiology..16 Despite
> the editors' joking scepticism, the New York Times was quick to pick
> up on the story. In an article published on 19 May, entitled ..Chinese
> Restaurant Syndrome. Puzzles Doctors., the Times not only introduced
> the syndrome and its symptoms to a broader audience, but also sought
> the reaction of New York's Chinese restaurateurs. While many wondered
> if alcohol consumed with the food might be the cause, others were more
> openly sceptical. One asked .Would our steady customers keep coming back
> if they got headaches?. Another noted that his own family ate Chinese
> food .three times a day all year and we never have headaches or numbness
> or anything else..17
>
> Despite the best efforts of New York's Chinese restaurateurs, the media
> coverage brought even more attention to Kwok's syndrome and, as a result,
> more letters to the NEJM. In the 11 July 1968 issue, the editors again
> jokingly pointed out the .legion of hitherto silent sufferers. that had
> now come out of the woodwork. Unlike the first batch of letters, however,
> some respondents were quite suspicious of the whole discussion. One, for
> instance, congratulated the journal for fooling its readers and requested
> that it disclose the real author of the article: .For certainly he is Dr
> Human Crock, and his .Chinese-Restaurant syndrome. is totally illusionary
> and nonexistent..18 Many of the new letters, however, continued to share
> experiences with the syndrome. The editors noted that among those received
> was an account of one individual having an attack .not only after taking
> Chinese soup or Japanese Teriyaki, but also, alas, after eating matzoh
> ball and split pea soups in a Kosher delicatessen..
>
> In addition, numerous suggestions of possible causes were offered,
> including mustard, bean sprouts, tea, mushrooms, fish, salt and .simple
> myopathy of the facial and neck muscles induced when Westerners try
> to eat with chopsticks..19 Joking aside, the NEJM did point to an
> emerging consensus that, in line with Kwok's original suggestions,
> the food additive MSG was the most probable cause of the syndrome. One
> letter published by the journal, for instance, was from a team of
> second-year students at New York University (NYU), who claimed to have
> shown significant reactions to MSG on 35 test subjects. Another was from
> neurologist Robert Byck and pharmacologist Herbert H. Schaumburg at the
> Albert Einstein College of Medicine in which they outlined the preliminary
> results of their own experiments which, like the NYU study, suggested a
> causative role for MSG in the Chinese restaurant syndrome. Unlike the NYU
> team, however, Byck and Schaumburg eventually published their results,
> marking the first in what would eventually be many scientific studies
> looking critically at the health effects of MSG over the next decade.
> Previous Section Next Section MSG and the Making of American Food
>
> While Kwok is generally credited with the .discovery. of the Chinese
> restaurant syndrome, it was first legitimised as a .real. medical
> condition largely after Schaumburg, Byck and two colleagues first
> published their findings in an article in Science on 21 February 1969. The
> researchers initially identified MSG as a potential causative agent
> by isolating individual components of won-ton soup from a restaurant
> where two individuals were known to have had a reaction. Using enzymatic
> analysis, they recorded concentrations of 3 gm of MSG per 200 ml of a
> particular sample of soup. The research team then conducted two tests:
> one in which MSG was administered intravenously to 13 subjects, and
> another in which MSG was administered orally to 56 subjects. All of
> the test subjects experienced at least one of the common components of
> the syndrome, identified as burning, facial pressure, chest pain and
> headache. However, it was also found that different individual thresholds
> were required to elicit known symptoms and these ranged from between 2
> and 12 gms, with higher doses generally producing more intense symptoms
> and with prior ingestion of food having a noticeable impact on individual
> susceptibility.20
>
> Schaumburg et al. drew two important conclusions from their research. The
> first was that MSG was the cause of the Chinese restaurant syndrome first
> described by Kwok, particularly in that it consistently produced burning,
> facial pressure and chest pressure among susceptible individuals. The
> second, and perhaps more important conclusion, was that the MSG could
> .produce undesirable effects in the amounts used in the preparation
> of widely consumed foods..21 MSG, they pointed out, was not limited
> to Chinese restaurants at all and was, in fact, used extensively by
> American food producers in amounts they interpreted to be sufficient
> to produce a reaction. As an example of this, they pointed to the fact
> that popular brands of MSG suggested one gram per serving as the minimum
> amount required for effectiveness. Given that susceptible individuals
> experienced reactions with dosages as low as two gms, it did not seem
> unreasonable to assume that other foods seasoned with MSG could also
> produce a reaction. However, this raised one important question that the
> study was not able to answer: if a food product already in common use
> could quite easily trigger such a recognisable physiological reaction,
> why had the syndrome not been identified earlier?
>
> Although it emerged as a potential health threat in the aftermath of
> Kwok's 1968 letter, MSG had actually been present in far more than Chinese
> food for more than 20 years in the United States and for more than half
> a century throughout much of Asia. The additive was first discovered
> by Japanese biochemist Kikunae Ikeda after he recognised that one of
> the major building blocks of protein, glutamic acid (or glutamate),
> played a major role in the human sense of taste. In particular, he
> found that when glutamate was added to many savoury foods, including
> meat, soups or certain vegetables, they would taste much more pleasing
> and savoury than before. After developing a process to stabilize pure
> glutamate using ordinary salt, Ikeda patented the process and, in 1909,
> began to manufacture MSG under the name Ajinomoto, or .the essence of
> taste.. MSG quickly became an extremely popular condiment in Japan and,
> by the 1920s, the product began to see widespread distribution in China
> and other Asian countries despite some initial opposition to the product's
> associations with Japanese imperialism.22
>
> By the 1930s, American food processors had also begun to awaken to the
> multiple industrial uses of MSG, particularly its ability to enhance,
> blend and round out pleasant flavours while, at the same time, suppressing
> undesirable ones and limiting the effects of long-term storage,
> canning and freezing.23 Although there were initially some regulatory
> barriers to the large-scale introduction of MSG into the American food
> supply, these had been largely removed by the late 1940s and a number
> of companies started manufacturing MSG in the United States, the most
> prominent being the brand Accent, which was created in 1947.24 As just
> one of thousands of new food additives introduced into the American food
> supply in the post-war period, MSG was representative of what historian
> Harvey Levenstein refers to as the .Golden Age of Food Processing..25
> Additives like MSG were an inexpensive solution to the kinds of problems
> inherent in the increasingly popular processed and standardized foods
> being marketed to post-war consumers: poor and unappealing colour,
> texture, consistency and, perhaps most importantly, flavour. Thus,
> as early as 1969, 58 million pounds of MSG were being produced per
> year in the United States and products as diverse as breakfast cereal,
> TV dinners, frozen vegetables, condiments, baby food and canned soup
> included MSG among their ingredients.26 By 1980, the United States was
> responsible for 10 per cent of the world's MSG production and it had
> become one of the country's most widely used additives.27
>
> It was in this context of widespread MSG use in the United States, then,
> that Schaumburg et al. published their 1969 study. Although its larger
> significance was not immediately recognised, it was not long before the
> more serious implications of the study received greater scrutiny. In May
> 1969, psychiatrist John W. Olney reconfirmed the potential dangers of MSG
> with the publication of his own research on the additive in Science. Less
> concerned with the Chinese restaurant syndrome than with the long-term
> physiological impacts of MSG, the study primarily examined the effects
> of large doses of MSG injected into pregnant mice and their offspring,
> and it included some troubling findings.
>
> In one part of the study, post-mortem examinations of mice injected with
> large doses of MSG showed serious brain lesions in all of the experimental
> animals. Another part of the study compared the long-term effects of mice
> injected with MSG and a control group over a period of approximately five
> months. Olney found that the MSG group suffered from stunted skeletal
> development, obesity and female sterility.28 In an interview with the New
> York Times, Olney drew a direct link between his study and humans. While
> he did not think that humans were likely to develop the same kinds of
> serious side-effects as the mice, Olney pointed out that the discovery
> of the Chinese restaurant syndrome .raises questions about the use of MSG
> by pregnant women..29 Previous Section Next Section Generally Recognised
> As Safe?
>
> The cumulative effect of the Olney and Schaumburg et al. studies was that
> MSG's significance had become firmly established beyond the confines
> of the nation's Chinese restaurants. This was made clear in July 1969
> when Olney, Schaumburg and Byck joined consumer activist Ralph Nader in
> urging a Senate committee to ban the use of MSG in baby foods, virtually
> all of which contained the ingredient at the time. They argued that the
> seasoning was added, .solely to please the taste of the mothers. and was,
> therefore, not worth the potential health risks.30 Byck even suggested
> the possibility that .babies get the Chinese restaurant syndrome and
> don't know what hit them..31 The scientists, along with Nader, urged
> that MSG be removed from the Food and Drug Administration's Generally
> Recognized As Safe (GRAS) list until it could be proven conclusively to be
> safe. The MSG industry and those who were sceptical of the two studies,
> on the other hand, defended the additive by arguing that there needed to
> be more conclusive proof that MSG consumed orally by humans caused the
> specific negative health outcomes described by Olney's animal studies.32
>
> The campaign by Nader and his allies had some early success when,
> in October 1969, leading baby food manufacturers Gerber, Heinz and
> Squibb-Beech Nut bowed to public pressure and voluntarily discontinued
> the use of MSG in their products.33 The attempt to have MSG removed from
> the GRAS list, however, proved to be less successful. In a ruling on 4
> April 1970 that seemed to please no one, a National Research Council
> panel made the somewhat ambiguous ruling that MSG was .fit for human
> consumption but not necessarily by infants..34 In part, this seemingly
> contradictory ruling reflected the tenuous middle-ground that regulatory
> agencies and other oversight bodies would continue to walk throughout the
> 1970s between the interests of consumers and the food industry when it
> came to MSG and other food additives.35 To a certain extent, however,
> the vague early pronouncements by the FDA also seemed to reflect the
> fact that, by 1970, there had been a number of conflicting reports on the
> long-term health impacts of the additive. Olney's study, in particular,
> came under fierce criticism shortly after its publication for a number
> of perceived methodological and procedural flaws, particularly after
> two 1970 studies failed to reproduce his results.36 In that same year,
> however, two additional studies were also published showing brain damage
> in both mice fed large oral doses of MSG and in monkeys that had been
> given subcutaneous injections of the additive.37
>
> Neither these early studies nor the National Research Council
> ruling in 1970 on MSG seemed to settle the debate over the long-term
> physiological impacts of the additive. Throughout the 1970s, literally
> dozens of articles were published either contesting or confirming
> Olney's findings.38 Olney himself led the charge, publishing more than 25
> articles examining the controversy during this period.39 While his critics
> continued to accuse Olney of fear-mongering and exaggerating findings
> from studies that bore little resemblance to the ways in which humans
> consumed MSG, Olney and his consumer activist allies in return accused
> them of colluding with the food industry to protect their financial
> interests in dangerous food additives.40 In particular, they pointed to
> the fact that five of the seven scientists who conducted the FDA review
> of MSG's safety were directly employed by, had recently worked for or had
> lobbied on behalf of major manufacturers and industrial users of MSG.41
> Despite the explosion in research and mutual accusations of bias coming
> from both sides of the debate, however, the question remained largely
> unresolved by the early 1980s.42
>
> One of the early effects of this debate between Olney and his detractors
> was that it marked a split in MSG related research during the 1970s. On
> the one side were the studies by Olney and others that looked primarily at
> the long-term impacts of MSG exposure on growth, reproduction and brain
> functions in experimental animals. On the other side, was research that
> examined the more short-term effects of MSG consumption, particularly
> as it related to Schaumburg et al.'s research on the Chinese restaurant
> syndrome. While Olney pointed to the existence of the Chinese restaurant
> syndrome as a possible link between his animal studies and effects on
> humans, research on the toxic effects of MSG was generally less concerned
> with the more immediate physiological effects associated with the symptoms
> of the syndrome.
>
> Yet, although the debate over the short-term impacts of MSG and its
> relationship with the Chinese restaurant syndrome was concerned with
> different issues, it was not immune to the same kinds of contradictions
> and ambiguities that coloured these debates about the long-term health
> effects of MSG. As the main controversy between Olney and his detractors
> was at its fiercest during the early 1970s, a number of studies also began
> to question Schaumburg et al.'s methods and conclusions. A study published
> in Nature on 8 August 1970, for instance, used a double-blind experimental
> technique on 24 volunteers and found no differences in symptoms observed
> between the group consuming a soup with 3 gm of MSG and a control group
> given a placebo soup broth.43 Another study published in Science in 1970,
> found that, even after feeding as much as 137 gm per day of glutamic acid
> to 14 adult male subjects for 42 days, there was not only an absence
> of changes in the brain chemistry in any subjects, but also that none
> of the subjects experienced Chinese restaurant syndrome.44 And while
> a study published in Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology in 1971 did
> record increased frequency of some complaints in the MSG group over
> the control group, they found that none of the subjects were observed
> to have experienced .the triad of symptoms described as the Chinese
> Restaurant Syndrome. which they identified as burning, chest pain and
> facial pressure.45
>
> Close on the heels of these three studies, however, were others that
> supported Shaumburg et al.'s initial findings. A 1971 study published in
> Biochemical Medicine, for instance, was able not only to produce symptoms
> of the Chinese restaurant syndrome (described as .an uncomfortable feeling
> of pressure, burning, numbness or mild pain.) in all of the subjects using
> large doses of orally administered MSG, but they also found evidence that
> reactions were dose-dependent.46 A placebo-controlled study appearing in
> The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition in February 1972 by researchers
> R. A. Kenney and C. S. Tidball at George Washington University Medical
> Center produced similar results. The study found that, out of the 77
> volunteers, 25 experienced .one or more. of the symptoms associated
> with MSG (which they listed as .warmth/burning., .stiffness/tightness.,
> .weakness., .pressure., .tingling., .heartburn/gastric discomfort.,
> .light-headedness. and .headache.) after consuming quantities of 2 gm
> or more of MSG with reactions varying between individuals and also being
> decidedly dose-dependent.47
>
> Both sides of the debate about the Chinese restaurant syndrome found
> grounds for scepticism regarding one another's studies. Those arguing
> for a link between MSG and the syndrome suggested that many of the
> studies accepted too narrow a range of symptoms as the Chinese restaurant
> syndrome, frequently failed to sample individuals who were known reactors
> and often failed to study a truly representative population sample.48
> Their critics, on the other hand, argued that too many symptoms were being
> accepted as part of the Chinese restaurant syndrome, results failed to
> find a correlation between symptoms and blood glutamate levels, and that
> many of the experiments were not placebo-controlled or double-blind.49
> To the chagrin of its sceptics, however, the Chinese restaurant syndrome
> proved to be quite resilient and, through the rest of the 1970s, continued
> to be the focus of serious investigations by scientific researchers,
> doctors and the media. Previous Section Next Section .Appropriate. and
> .Bizarre. in a Culinary Setting
>
> While it would be fair to characterize the early years of debate
> over the Chinese restaurant syndrome as being inconclusive, a number
> of patterns emerged that would come to dominate discourse about the
> condition, particularly within studies showing a positive connection
> between MSG and the expanding list of symptoms associated with it. The
> most noticeable pattern was the widespread acceptance of the assumption
> that people were getting sick more often after eating Chinese food than
> from other .American. foods containing MSG. While Schaumburg et al. drew
> direct parallels between their findings and its implications for more
> widely consumed foods, later researchers proved to be less inclined
> to do the same. One of the more obvious examples of this was the fact
> that reactions to MSG continued to be called the .Chinese restaurant
> syndrome. in medical and scientific journals. Although one letter to
> American Heart suggested the syndrome be renamed .MSG atopy. because
> the term Chinese restaurant syndrome, .is too narrow considering the
> tons of MSG used in less exotic foods., such suggestions were ultimately
> ignored and the vast majority of studies continued to refer to MSG related
> reactions as the Chinese restaurant syndrome (or CRS) well into 1980s.50
>
> The retention of the name Chinese restaurant syndrome is perhaps even
> more surprising when one considers the syndrome's decidedly American
> character. Just as Kwok had stressed that he had only ever experienced
> the Chinese restaurant syndrome in the American context, the syndrome was
> largely unknown in countries like Japan and China, both of whom had been
> using MSG for much longer than in the United States.51 Yet, during the
> 1970s at least, American researchers conducted no comparative studies
> of MSG research in either country and the syndrome's uniquely American
> origins went largely unexplored. Instead, most American research into
> the Chinese restaurant syndrome appears to have been constrained by two
> assumptions. First, that the syndrome was unique to Chinese restaurants,
> despite the widespread use of MSG elsewhere; and, second, that this
> was the case because of .excessive. and .bizarre. cooking practices in
> these restaurants.
>
> An example of how these assumptions operated can be seen in a critical
> response by food researchers Frank Blood, Bernard Oser and Philip
> White to Olney's first MSG study which was published on 5 September
> 1969 in Science. Although these critics of Olney's study disputed its
> basic findings and methodological assumptions in detail, they did not
> question the notion that MSG was the cause of the Chinese restaurant
> syndrome. Rather, they wrote (without a citation) that it was .quite
> another story and appears to have resulted from the addition of as much as
> 5 gm per portion of soup. and further added that .it may be an allergic
> reaction, and it has not been studied by an adequately controlled
> double-blind procedure..52 The latter point was surprisingly never
> followed up on in any meaningful way by MSG researchers during the 1970s,
> despite the fact that research done during the 1950s had shown allergic
> reactions to MSG in some individuals.53 However, the idea that the Chinese
> restaurant syndrome was the result of seemingly .excessive. amounts
> of MSG quickly became a common justification for the lack of evidence
> showing cases of Kwok's syndrome outside of Chinese restaurants. Take,
> for example, the study published in 1972 by Kenney and Tidball.
>
> As mentioned earlier, the study found that reactions to MSG generally
> required doses of two grams or more, symptoms appeared be more
> pronounced when larger quantities were consumed, and also that there was
> significant variation between individuals in terms of their reaction
> to the substance. Given these findings, Kenney and Tidball went on
> to postulate as to why the Chinese restaurant syndrome appeared to be
> directly associated with Chinese food rather than other products also
> containing MSG. As in other studies, they pegged Chinese cooking practices
> as the main culprit and suggested that few experienced symptoms of the
> Chinese restaurant syndrome when MSG was used .in appropriate culinary
> quantities. but that .the exhibition of quantities that might properly be
> regarded as bizarre in the culinary setting increases the possibility of
> symptom occurrence..54 These ideas about .appropriate. and .bizarre. MSG
> use in Chinese restaurants became common throughout the 1970s and terms
> like .abundant amounts. and .appreciable quantities. were commonly used
> by researchers to differentiate between the use of MSG in Chinese and
> in other kinds of foods.55 Media reports on the syndrome picked up on
> these trends within the scientific literature and frequently adopted
> a range of colourful descriptors to explain why Chinese food was more
> likely to cause an adverse reaction than other foods containing MSG. Not
> only were .large. or .generous. amounts said to have been used in Chinese
> restaurants, for instance, but MSG was supposedly being employed .freely.,
> .liberally. or .lavishly. by Chinese cooks.56 One article even went so
> far as to suggest that won-ton soup .often floats in MSG..57
>
> Kenney and Tidball's conclusions raise a number of important
> questions. Were Chinese restaurants really using excessive quantities
> of MSG? Was three grams of MSG consumed during a meal really a
> .bizarre. portion? And what were the .appropriate. quantities of MSG being
> used by American food manufacturers? As discussed earlier, Schaumburg
> et al. had reached the conclusion that, based on the recommendations
> given by MSG manufacturers for minimum use, it was entirely likely
> that a number of widely consumed foods could trigger a reaction.58 This
> interpretation was further supported by a later study which found that,
> if one were to follow the instructions on a popular commercial brand
> of MSG that it would be .possible to envision a meal . . . in which an
> individual could consume 4.6 gm of MSG..59
>
> Surprisingly, however, few studies thought it necessary to expand upon
> these largely anecdotal figures. In fact, none of the major studies
> of the Chinese restaurant syndrome published in peer reviewed journals
> between 1970 and 1980 examined the MSG content of any common foods known
> to contain the additive. The only study to have done so was the 1969
> Schaumburg et al. study. While that study's figure of 3 gm of MSG per
> serving of won-ton soup was used in subsequent studies as proof of the
> .excessive. use of MSG in Chinese restaurants, no studies attempted to
> repeat this test or to compare such figures to amounts commonly used in
> widely consumed products like canned soup.60
>
> These assumptions about .appropriate. and .bizarre. MSG use
> had consequences beyond the confines of scientific and medical
> journals. While one 1969 letter to the NEJM jokingly anticipated
> federal legislation demanding that cans of Chinese food be labelled,
> .Caution: Chinese food. May be hazardous to your health., perceptions
> of Chinese restaurants as particularly dangerous remained.61 This new
> double standard became especially apparent in a campaign in November
> 1969 by the New York City Health Department. An order demanding that
> MSG be used .sparingly when preparing food. was sent out in English and
> Chinese to both manufacturers and vendors of Chinese food, purportedly
> in response to six .outbreaks. over a four year period. The Department
> reported that, in one restaurant they investigated, two pounds of MSG
> had been added to 1,500 egg rolls. They also found that .a teaspoonful
> and even tablespoonful were being added routinely to wonton soup in some
> restaurants.. Although the Health Department admitted that it had .never
> had two groups ill in the same restaurant at the same time. they felt
> sufficiently confident that these amounts of MSG were excessive.even
> in the absence of comparative studies.and that immediate action was
> necessary.62
>
> That these warnings were not directed at other restaurants or at
> non-Chinese food manufacturers is illustrative of the strength of the
> association between Chinese food and the additive's use (and abuse)
> that would colour studies throughout the 1970s. As already suggested,
> these notions of .bizarre. and .deviant. practices among Chinese cooks
> was part of a much longer history of American fears and fascination
> with Chinese food. The Chinese restaurant syndrome's place in this
> lineage is particularly apparent in a 1969 New York Times article
> with the provocative title, .In Hong Kong it's Dog or Snake at
> Lunch Now.. Ostensibly a tourist guide for connoisseurs looking for
> .exotic. eating experiences, much of the article focuses primarily on
> the practices among Chinese cultures of eating animals such as dogs
> and snakes that had so fascinated and repulsed nineteenth- and early
> twentieth-century American observers.63 Yet, reminiscent of these early
> voyeuristic accounts, it is the illegality of dog consumption that is
> the major concern of the article, which focuses specifically on how
> such foods are often hidden on menus using codes such as .goat meat. or
> .special beef.. Quite tellingly, the same article then goes on to discuss
> how Hong Kong restaurateurs had become very concerned with the steps
> taken by the New York Health Department to limit MSG use. It notes that
> chefs argued that they had little to fear from an investigation from
> health authorities because .they had always used monosodium glutamate
> or derivatives in small quantities..64
>
> This juxtaposition of the consumption of .deviant. (illegal) and
> .exotic. meats with the use of MSG in Hong Kong restaurants was no
> coincidence. Rather, it suggests that there was an assumed equivalence
> between the two culinary practices in that both were understood to
> be cloaked within a language and culture of concealment: just as the
> illegal dog meat could be hidden as .special beef..potentially consumed
> without the restaurant patron even knowing it.MSG was thought to conceal
> inferior foods and to trick the consumer. That the .exces

On 9/6/2016 12:54 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
> Taxed and Spent wrote:
>> On 9/6/2016 12:03 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
>>> notbob wrote:
>>>> On 2016-09-06, cshenk > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It became popular to blame MSG in the late 90's.....
>>>>
>>>> ?????
>>>>
>>>> The "Chinese restaurant syndrome" was around and common way back in
>>>> the 60s. By the 90s, MSG had been declared "generally recognized as
>>>> safe" (GRAS), much like GMOs are, today. (as if.....) 8|
>>>>
>>>> nb
>>>
>>> .That Won-Ton Soup Headache.: The Chinese Restaurant Syndrome, MSG and
>>> the Making of American Food, 1968.1980
>>>
>>> Ian Mosby*
>>>
>>> *Department of History, York University, Toronto, ON, Canada. E-mail:
>>>
>>>
>>> Soc Hist Med first published online February 2, 2009 doi:10.1093/shm/hkn098
>>>
>>> [Reprinted without permission (sue me!)]
>>>
>>
>> I stopped reading after it was stated it was the result of racism. Is
>> there a summary beyond that from this article? Maybe that MSG has
>> caused a world full of gluten intolerance?
>
> It sounds like you don't like the racism theory. Why not?
>
>

It is fine by me, but it didn't need to be repeated over and over, and I
just want the facts, Jack. Fine, racism/fear of another culture/the
unknown led people to allege MSG is a problem OK, then stop. Now the
facts as to MSG itself.

On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 10:03:06 AM UTC-10, Taxed and Spent wrote:
> On 9/6/2016 12:54 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
> > Taxed and Spent wrote:
> >> On 9/6/2016 12:03 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
> >>> notbob wrote:
> >>>> On 2016-09-06, cshenk > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> It became popular to blame MSG in the late 90's.....
> >>>>
> >>>> ?????
> >>>>
> >>>> The "Chinese restaurant syndrome" was around and common way back in
> >>>> the 60s. By the 90s, MSG had been declared "generally recognized as
> >>>> safe" (GRAS), much like GMOs are, today. (as if.....) 8|
> >>>>
> >>>> nb
> >>>
> >>> .That Won-Ton Soup Headache.: The Chinese Restaurant Syndrome, MSG and
> >>> the Making of American Food, 1968.1980
> >>>
> >>> Ian Mosby*
> >>>
> >>> *Department of History, York University, Toronto, ON, Canada. E-mail:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Soc Hist Med first published online February 2, 2009 doi:10.1093/shm/hkn098
> >>>
> >>> [Reprinted without permission (sue me!)]
> >>>
> >>
> >> I stopped reading after it was stated it was the result of racism. Is
> >> there a summary beyond that from this article? Maybe that MSG has
> >> caused a world full of gluten intolerance?
> >
> > It sounds like you don't like the racism theory. Why not?
> >
> >
>
> It is fine by me, but it didn't need to be repeated over and over, and I
> just want the facts, Jack. Fine, racism/fear of another culture/the
> unknown led people to allege MSG is a problem OK, then stop. Now the
> facts as to MSG itself.

The facts is that MSG has been in use as a seasoning for almost 100 years. It is regarded as safe to eat. Nobody was ever been killed/harmed by Chow Fun or his brother Look.

"Taxed and Spent" wrote in message ...

On 9/6/2016 12:03 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
> notbob wrote:
>> On 2016-09-06, cshenk > wrote:
>>
>>> It became popular to blame MSG in the late 90's.....
>>
>> ?????
>>
>> The "Chinese restaurant syndrome" was around and common way back in
>> the 60s. By the 90s, MSG had been declared "generally recognized as
>> safe" (GRAS), much like GMOs are, today. (as if.....) 8|
>>
>> nb
>
> .That Won-Ton Soup Headache.: The Chinese Restaurant Syndrome, MSG and
> the Making of American Food, 1968.1980
>
> Ian Mosby*
>
> *Department of History, York University, Toronto, ON, Canada. E-mail:
>
>
> Soc Hist Med first published online February 2, 2009
> doi:10.1093/shm/hkn098
>
> [Reprinted without permission (sue me!)]
>

I stopped reading after it was stated it was the result of racism. Is
there a summary beyond that from this article? Maybe that MSG has
caused a world full of gluten intolerance?

============

I didn't read it all, but I was interested to read this:

"none of the writers described experiencing the
syndrome outside an American context"

"he had never experienced
the syndrome before his arrival in the United States."

Was that explained later on?



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 9/6/2016 1:20 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 10:03:06 AM UTC-10, Taxed and Spent wrote:
>> On 9/6/2016 12:54 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
>>> Taxed and Spent wrote:
>>>> On 9/6/2016 12:03 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
>>>>> notbob wrote:
>>>>>> On 2016-09-06, cshenk > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It became popular to blame MSG in the late 90's.....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?????
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The "Chinese restaurant syndrome" was around and common way back in
>>>>>> the 60s. By the 90s, MSG had been declared "generally recognized as
>>>>>> safe" (GRAS), much like GMOs are, today. (as if.....) 8|
>>>>>>
>>>>>> nb
>>>>>
>>>>> .That Won-Ton Soup Headache.: The Chinese Restaurant Syndrome, MSG and
>>>>> the Making of American Food, 1968.1980
>>>>>
>>>>> Ian Mosby*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Department of History, York University, Toronto, ON, Canada. E-mail:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Soc Hist Med first published online February 2, 2009 doi:10.1093/shm/hkn098
>>>>>
>>>>> [Reprinted without permission (sue me!)]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I stopped reading after it was stated it was the result of racism. Is
>>>> there a summary beyond that from this article? Maybe that MSG has
>>>> caused a world full of gluten intolerance?
>>>
>>> It sounds like you don't like the racism theory. Why not?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It is fine by me, but it didn't need to be repeated over and over, and I
>> just want the facts, Jack. Fine, racism/fear of another culture/the
>> unknown led people to allege MSG is a problem OK, then stop. Now the
>> facts as to MSG itself.
>
> The facts is that MSG has been in use as a seasoning for almost 100 years. It is regarded as safe to eat. Nobody was ever been killed/harmed by Chow Fun or his brother Look.
>


I know that - I was referring to the deficiencies of the article.

On 2016-09-06 3:54 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
> Taxed and Spent wrote:

>> I stopped reading after it was stated it was the result of racism. Is
>> there a summary beyond that from this article? Maybe that MSG has
>> caused a world full of gluten intolerance?
>
> It sounds like you don't like the racism theory. Why not?

An attitude about Chinese food is not racism because the food is not a race.

On 9/6/2016 2:48 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-09-06 3:54 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
>> Taxed and Spent wrote:
>
>>> I stopped reading after it was stated it was the result of racism. Is
>>> there a summary beyond that from this article? Maybe that MSG has
>>> caused a world full of gluten intolerance?
>>
>> It sounds like you don't like the racism theory. Why not?
>
> An attitude about Chinese food is not racism because the food is not a
> race.


That only applies to white rice.

Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-09-06 3:54 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
>> Taxed and Spent wrote:
>
>>> I stopped reading after it was stated it was the result of racism. Is
>>> there a summary beyond that from this article? Maybe that MSG has
>>> caused a world full of gluten intolerance?
>>
>> It sounds like you don't like the racism theory. Why not?
>
> An attitude about Chinese food is not racism because the food is not a race.

nothing gets by Dave!

sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On Mon, 05 Sep 2016 22:27:41 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
> > Ophelia wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> >
> > > "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >
> > >
> > > Autolyzed yeast extract is just their quaint way of hiding
> > > monosodium glutamate.
> > >
> > > Cindy Hamilton
> > > ==========
> > >
> > > Why is monosodium glutamate despised here so much? I use it,
> > > although in minute amounts, and I it would be good to know what
> > > the big problem is.
> >
> > Many reasons Ophelia but most based on thinking MSG is bad for you.
> > Used properly, MSG is used to replace salt as it's a lower sodium
> > item and doesnt make you want to salt the food. You use it in
> > pinches for that. With reasonable use you can reduce your sodium
> > intake by 40%.
> >
> > Most popular is to complain of MSG in chinese food but studies to
> > date have shown severely low levels of reaction to MSG, but instead
> > people not used to that cuisine, reacting to iodine (seaweed and
> > shellfish) and other shellfish components. It became popular to
> > blame MSG in the late 90's and the pervasive idea continues today.
> > There are no scientifically made studies that show any MSG reaction
> > among the populace once they rule out the more likely items like
> > shellfish and derivatives from those.
> >
> Back in the days when MSG got a bad reputation, food "intolerances"
> were virtually unknown. Overdo it and you get a headache, at least
> that was my exSIL's symptom. I suppose there are different symptoms,
> but that's what happened to her and she could point to eating Chinese
> food. She cooked a lot of Chinese food at home too, so she was able
> to narrow it down to using MSG or not. I don't need MSG or salt for
> that matter. Soy sauce provides enough salt for me.

Soy sauce has MSG (grin)

--

Ophelia wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> "cshenk" wrote in message
> ...
>
> Ophelia wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
> > "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >
> > Autolyzed yeast extract is just their quaint way of hiding
> > monosodium glutamate.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> > ==========
> >
> > Why is monosodium glutamate despised here so much? I use it,
> > although in minute amounts, and I it would be good to know what the
> > big problem is.
>
> Many reasons Ophelia but most based on thinking MSG is bad for you.
> Used properly, MSG is used to replace salt as it's a lower sodium item
> and doesnt make you want to salt the food. You use it in pinches for
> that. With reasonable use you can reduce your sodium intake by 40%.
>
> Most popular is to complain of MSG in chinese food but studies to date
> have shown severely low levels of reaction to MSG, but instead people
> not used to that cuisine, reacting to iodine (seaweed and shellfish)
> and other shellfish components. It became popular to blame MSG in the
> late 90's and the pervasive idea continues today. There are no
> scientifically made studies that show any MSG reaction among the
> populace once they rule out the more likely items like shellfish and
> derivatives from those.
>
> Carol
> ===========
>
> Interesting, thank you!

No problem! Turns out it was an internet trend before then but I
didn't know if it.

You will still see people claim it (some here likely). The studies,
even where made point sprecific to those claiming MSG issues, debunk it.

Carol


--

notbob wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On 2016-09-06, cshenk > wrote:
>
> > It became popular to blame MSG in the late 90's.....
>
> ?????
>
> The "Chinese restaurant syndrome" was around and common way back in
> the 60s. By the 90s, MSG had been declared "generally recognized as
> safe" (GRAS), much like GMOs are, today. (as if.....) 8|
>
> nb

Believe what you wish. BTW, if you think you are MSG intolerant,
remove all mushrooms from your diet.

--

Taxed and Spent wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On 9/6/2016 12:03 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
> > notbob wrote:
> >>On 2016-09-06, cshenk > wrote:
> > >
> > > > It became popular to blame MSG in the late 90's.....
> > >
> > > ?????
> > >
> > > The "Chinese restaurant syndrome" was around and common way back
> > > in the 60s. By the 90s, MSG had been declared "generally
> > > recognized as safe" (GRAS), much like GMOs are, today. (as
> > > if.....) 8|
> > >
> > > nb
> >
> > .That Won-Ton Soup Headache.: The Chinese Restaurant Syndrome, MSG
> > and the Making of American Food, 1968.1980
> >
> > Ian Mosby*
> >
> > *Department of History, York University, Toronto, ON, Canada.
> > E-mail:
> >
> > Soc Hist Med first published online February 2, 2009
> > doi:10.1093/shm/hkn098
> >
> > [Reprinted without permission (sue me!)]
> >
>
> I stopped reading after it was stated it was the result of racism.
> Is there a summary beyond that from this article? Maybe that MSG has
> caused a world full of gluten intolerance?

Yup. Sure has (grin).

Newest food fad is gluten intolerance.

--

On 9/6/2016 5:51 PM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
> On 9/6/2016 2:48 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2016-09-06 3:54 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
>>> Taxed and Spent wrote:
>>
>>>> I stopped reading after it was stated it was the result of racism. Is
>>>> there a summary beyond that from this article? Maybe that MSG has
>>>> caused a world full of gluten intolerance?
>>>
>>> It sounds like you don't like the racism theory. Why not?
>>
>> An attitude about Chinese food is not racism because the food is not a
>> race.
>
>
> That only applies to white rice.

Need Chinese racists? 6 seconds says it all.
http://tinyurl.com/hdldqgy

On Tue, 06 Sep 2016 18:25:01 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:

> sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
> > On Mon, 05 Sep 2016 22:27:41 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
> >
> > > Ophelia wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> > >
> > > > "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Autolyzed yeast extract is just their quaint way of hiding
> > > > monosodium glutamate.
> > > >
> > > > Cindy Hamilton
> > > > ==========
> > > >
> > > > Why is monosodium glutamate despised here so much? I use it,
> > > > although in minute amounts, and I it would be good to know what
> > > > the big problem is.
> > >
> > > Many reasons Ophelia but most based on thinking MSG is bad for you.
> > > Used properly, MSG is used to replace salt as it's a lower sodium
> > > item and doesnt make you want to salt the food. You use it in
> > > pinches for that. With reasonable use you can reduce your sodium
> > > intake by 40%.
> > >
> > > Most popular is to complain of MSG in chinese food but studies to
> > > date have shown severely low levels of reaction to MSG, but instead
> > > people not used to that cuisine, reacting to iodine (seaweed and
> > > shellfish) and other shellfish components. It became popular to
> > > blame MSG in the late 90's and the pervasive idea continues today.
> > > There are no scientifically made studies that show any MSG reaction
> > > among the populace once they rule out the more likely items like
> > > shellfish and derivatives from those.
> > >
> > Back in the days when MSG got a bad reputation, food "intolerances"
> > were virtually unknown. Overdo it and you get a headache, at least
> > that was my exSIL's symptom. I suppose there are different symptoms,
> > but that's what happened to her and she could point to eating Chinese
> > food. She cooked a lot of Chinese food at home too, so she was able
> > to narrow it down to using MSG or not. I don't need MSG or salt for
> > that matter. Soy sauce provides enough salt for me.
>
> Soy sauce has MSG (grin)

Why are you trying to play Gotcha? Soy sauce has a lot of things in
it, not the least of which is wheat. Pile a bunch of those things on
top of each other and it might put someone over the top. Hubby has
gout. If I was to NOT feed him anything with purines in it, he'd
starve. It's probably the same with msg. The msg in one thing might
not affect a person, but the msg in something else does. Put them all
together and they get a headache.

I'm not gluten intolerant, but a lot of people are - and I happen to
know it's not a figment of their imagination, just because they aren't
celiacs.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

In article >,
says...
>
> On 9/6/2016 5:51 PM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
> > On 9/6/2016 2:48 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> >> On 2016-09-06 3:54 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
> >>> Taxed and Spent wrote:
> >>
> >>>> I stopped reading after it was stated it was the result of racism. Is
> >>>> there a summary beyond that from this article? Maybe that MSG has
> >>>> caused a world full of gluten intolerance?
> >>>
> >>> It sounds like you don't like the racism theory. Why not?
> >>
> >> An attitude about Chinese food is not racism because the food is not a
> >> race.
> >
> >
> > That only applies to white rice.
>
> Need Chinese racists? 6 seconds says it all.
> http://tinyurl.com/hdldqgy

'American' isn't a race.

Ophelia wrote:
> "Taxed and Spent" wrote in message ...
>
> On 9/6/2016 12:03 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
>> notbob wrote:
>>> On 2016-09-06, cshenk > wrote:
>>>
>>>> It became popular to blame MSG in the late 90's.....
>>>
>>> ?????
>>>
>>> The "Chinese restaurant syndrome" was around and common way back in
>>> the 60s. By the 90s, MSG had been declared "generally recognized as
>>> safe" (GRAS), much like GMOs are, today. (as if.....) 8|
>>>
>>> nb
>>
>> .That Won-Ton Soup Headache.: The Chinese Restaurant Syndrome, MSG and
>> the Making of American Food, 1968.1980
>>
>> Ian Mosby*
>>
>> *Department of History, York University, Toronto, ON, Canada. E-mail:
>>
>>
>> Soc Hist Med first published online February 2, 2009
>> doi:10.1093/shm/hkn098
>>
>> [Reprinted without permission (sue me!)]
>>
>
> I stopped reading after it was stated it was the result of racism. Is
> there a summary beyond that from this article? Maybe that MSG has
> caused a world full of gluten intolerance?
>
>============
>
> I didn't read it all, but I was interested to read this:
>
> "none of the writers described experiencing the
> syndrome outside an American context"
>
> "he had never experienced
> the syndrome before his arrival in the United States."
>
> Was that explained later on?

not really explained, no

Just as Kwok had stressed that he had only ever experienced the Chinese
restaurant syndrome in the American context, the syndrome was largely
unknown in countries like Japan and China, both of whom had been using
MSG for much longer than in the United States.51 Yet, during the 1970s
at least, American researchers conducted no comparative studies of MSG
research in either country and the syndrome's uniquely American origins
went largely unexplored.

On Tue, 06 Sep 2016 18:35:12 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
> Believe what you wish. BTW, if you think you are MSG intolerant,
> remove all mushrooms from your diet.

Mushrooms are a small player. Per 100 g = Rice cakes have 75 mg,
Tomato (raw) has 203 mg, and Parmesan cheese has 840 mg.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

In article >,
says...
>
> On Tue, 06 Sep 2016 18:25:01 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
> > sf wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> >
> > > On Mon, 05 Sep 2016 22:27:41 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ophelia wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> > > >
> > > > > "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Autolyzed yeast extract is just their quaint way of hiding
> > > > > monosodium glutamate.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cindy Hamilton
> > > > > ==========
> > > > >
> > > > > Why is monosodium glutamate despised here so much? I use it,
> > > > > although in minute amounts, and I it would be good to know what
> > > > > the big problem is.
> > > >
> > > > Many reasons Ophelia but most based on thinking MSG is bad for you.
> > > > Used properly, MSG is used to replace salt as it's a lower sodium
> > > > item and doesnt make you want to salt the food. You use it in
> > > > pinches for that. With reasonable use you can reduce your sodium
> > > > intake by 40%.
> > > >
> > > > Most popular is to complain of MSG in chinese food but studies to
> > > > date have shown severely low levels of reaction to MSG, but instead
> > > > people not used to that cuisine, reacting to iodine (seaweed and
> > > > shellfish) and other shellfish components. It became popular to
> > > > blame MSG in the late 90's and the pervasive idea continues today.
> > > > There are no scientifically made studies that show any MSG reaction
> > > > among the populace once they rule out the more likely items like
> > > > shellfish and derivatives from those.
> > > >
> > > Back in the days when MSG got a bad reputation, food "intolerances"
> > > were virtually unknown. Overdo it and you get a headache, at least
> > > that was my exSIL's symptom. I suppose there are different symptoms,
> > > but that's what happened to her and she could point to eating Chinese
> > > food. She cooked a lot of Chinese food at home too, so she was able
> > > to narrow it down to using MSG or not. I don't need MSG or salt for
> > > that matter. Soy sauce provides enough salt for me.
> >
> > Soy sauce has MSG (grin)
>
> Why are you trying to play Gotcha? Soy sauce has a lot of things in
> it, not the least of which is wheat. Pile a bunch of those things on
> top of each other and it might put someone over the top. Hubby has
> gout. If I was to NOT feed him anything with purines in it, he'd
> starve. It's probably the same with msg. The msg in one thing might
> not affect a person, but the msg in something else does. Put them all
> together and they get a headache.

Cshenk has joined the American MSG Promotion Society.

Maybe naturally occurring MSG is always a lower amount than manually
added MSG, so that doesn't even cause a problem if you're sensitive to
it.

On 2016-09-06, cshenk > wrote:

> Newest food fad is gluten intolerance.

Hardly.

I remember hearing about MSG intolerance way back when I was in high
school (60s).

This after a childhood lousy with Chinese food. We'd eat Chinese 2-3
times per month.

For what it's worth, MSG stand for monosodium glutanate.

"Glutamic acid was discovered and identified in 1866 by the German
chemist Karl Heinrich Ritthausen, who treated wheat gluten (for which
it was named) with sulfuric acid."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate

I'll let you guys argue this out.

nb

On 9/6/2016 5:14 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2016-09-06, cshenk > wrote:
>
>> Newest food fad is gluten intolerance.
>
> Hardly.
>
> I remember hearing about MSG intolerance way back when I was in high
> school (60s).
>
> This after a childhood lousy with Chinese food. We'd eat Chinese 2-3
> times per month.
>
> For what it's worth, MSG stand for monosodium glutanate.
>
> "Glutamic acid was discovered and identified in 1866 by the German
> chemist Karl Heinrich Ritthausen, who treated wheat gluten (for which
> it was named) with sulfuric acid."
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate
>
> I'll let you guys argue this out.
>
> nb
>

wow. WHOOSH! on SO MANY levels!

On Mon, 5 Sep 2016, sf wrote:

> On Mon, 05 Sep 2016 22:27:41 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
>> Ophelia wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>
>>> "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> Autolyzed yeast extract is just their quaint way of hiding
>>> monosodium glutamate.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>> ==========
>>>
>>> Why is monosodium glutamate despised here so much? I use it,
>>> although in minute amounts, and I it would be good to know what the
>>> big problem is.
>>
>> Many reasons Ophelia but most based on thinking MSG is bad for you.
>> Used properly, MSG is used to replace salt as it's a lower sodium item
>> and doesnt make you want to salt the food. You use it in pinches for
>> that. With reasonable use you can reduce your sodium intake by 40%.
>>
>> Most popular is to complain of MSG in chinese food but studies to date
>> have shown severely low levels of reaction to MSG, but instead people
>> not used to that cuisine, reacting to iodine (seaweed and shellfish)
>> and other shellfish components. It became popular to blame MSG in the
>> late 90's and the pervasive idea continues today. There are no
>> scientifically made studies that show any MSG reaction among the
>> populace once they rule out the more likely items like shellfish and
>> derivatives from those.
>>
> Back in the days when MSG got a bad reputation, food "intolerances"
> were virtually unknown. Overdo it and you get a headache, at least
> that was my exSIL's symptom. I suppose there are different symptoms,
> but that's what happened to her and she could point to eating Chinese
> food. She cooked a lot of Chinese food at home too, so she was able
> to narrow it down to using MSG or not. I don't need MSG or salt for
> that matter. Soy sauce provides enough salt for me.
>

I do know that MSG can be a trigger ingredient for people who suffer from
certain types of migraines.

On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 17:48:08 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2016-09-06 3:54 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
>> Taxed and Spent wrote:
>
>>> I stopped reading after it was stated it was the result of racism. Is
>>> there a summary beyond that from this article? Maybe that MSG has
>>> caused a world full of gluten intolerance?
>>
>> It sounds like you don't like the racism theory. Why not?
>
>An attitude about Chinese food is not racism because the food is not a race.

Chinese is not a race.

On 9/6/2016 8:22 PM, barbie gee wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 5 Sep 2016, sf wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2016 22:27:41 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>
>>> Ophelia wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>>
>>>> "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Autolyzed yeast extract is just their quaint way of hiding
>>>> monosodium glutamate.
>>>>
>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>> ==========
>>>>
>>>> Why is monosodium glutamate despised here so much? I use it,
>>>> although in minute amounts, and I it would be good to know what the
>>>> big problem is.
>>>
>>> Many reasons Ophelia but most based on thinking MSG is bad for you.
>>> Used properly, MSG is used to replace salt as it's a lower sodium item
>>> and doesnt make you want to salt the food. You use it in pinches for
>>> that. With reasonable use you can reduce your sodium intake by 40%.
>>>
>>> Most popular is to complain of MSG in chinese food but studies to date
>>> have shown severely low levels of reaction to MSG, but instead people
>>> not used to that cuisine, reacting to iodine (seaweed and shellfish)
>>> and other shellfish components. It became popular to blame MSG in the
>>> late 90's and the pervasive idea continues today. There are no
>>> scientifically made studies that show any MSG reaction among the
>>> populace once they rule out the more likely items like shellfish and
>>> derivatives from those.
>>>
>> Back in the days when MSG got a bad reputation, food "intolerances"
>> were virtually unknown. Overdo it and you get a headache, at least
>> that was my exSIL's symptom. I suppose there are different symptoms,
>> but that's what happened to her and she could point to eating Chinese
>> food. She cooked a lot of Chinese food at home too, so she was able
>> to narrow it down to using MSG or not. I don't need MSG or salt for
>> that matter. Soy sauce provides enough salt for me.
>
> I do know that MSG can be a trigger ingredient for people who suffer
> from certain types of migraines.

Many different foods and 'chemicals' [MSG, etc.] can (tend to) be
'triggers' for folks who suffer severe, chronic/acute migraines. My
stepmom has suffered such for decades, and it seems quite a few foods
are some of her triggers, e.g., coconut, many different tree nuts (but
not almonds!), and other foods I cannot recall. Plus, changes in
weather conditions also trigger her migraine(s). It's awful to suffer
chronic migraines, and I empathize for those who do.

Sky, who's had a small number of severe migraines over the years and
went to the ER for relief!

P.S. I do not dislike MSG <VBG!>

================================
Kitchen Rule #1 - Use the timer!
Kitchen Rule #2 - Cook's choice!
================================

"tert in seattle" wrote in message
...

Ophelia wrote:
> "Taxed and Spent" wrote in message ...
>
> On 9/6/2016 12:03 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
>> notbob wrote:
>>> On 2016-09-06, cshenk > wrote:
>>>
>>>> It became popular to blame MSG in the late 90's.....
>>>
>>> ?????
>>>
>>> The "Chinese restaurant syndrome" was around and common way back in
>>> the 60s. By the 90s, MSG had been declared "generally recognized as
>>> safe" (GRAS), much like GMOs are, today. (as if.....) 8|
>>>
>>> nb
>>
>> .That Won-Ton Soup Headache.: The Chinese Restaurant Syndrome, MSG and
>> the Making of American Food, 1968.1980
>>
>> Ian Mosby*
>>
>> *Department of History, York University, Toronto, ON, Canada. E-mail:
>>
>>
>> Soc Hist Med first published online February 2, 2009
>> doi:10.1093/shm/hkn098
>>
>> [Reprinted without permission (sue me!)]
>>
>
> I stopped reading after it was stated it was the result of racism. Is
> there a summary beyond that from this article? Maybe that MSG has
> caused a world full of gluten intolerance?
>
>============
>
> I didn't read it all, but I was interested to read this:
>
> "none of the writers described experiencing the
> syndrome outside an American context"
>
> "he had never experienced
> the syndrome before his arrival in the United States."
>
> Was that explained later on?

not really explained, no

Just as Kwok had stressed that he had only ever experienced the Chinese
restaurant syndrome in the American context, the syndrome was largely
unknown in countries like Japan and China, both of whom had been using
MSG for much longer than in the United States.51 Yet, during the 1970s
at least, American researchers conducted no comparative studies of MSG
research in either country and the syndrome's uniquely American origins
went largely unexplored.

=======

Nevertheless, it is 'uniquely American origins'. Perhaps Americans are
right to be wary of MSG even though it seems not to affect others.


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

In article >,
says...
>
> "tert in seattle" wrote in message
> ...
>
> Just as Kwok had stressed that he had only ever experienced the
Chinese
> restaurant syndrome in the American context, the syndrome was largely
> unknown in countries like Japan and China, both of whom had been using
> MSG for much longer than in the United States.51 Yet, during the 1970s
> at least, American researchers conducted no comparative studies of MSG
> research in either country and the syndrome's uniquely American origins
> went largely unexplored.
>
> =======
>
> Nevertheless, it is 'uniquely American origins'. Perhaps Americans are
> right to be wary of MSG even though it seems not to affect others.

Have you not heard of Chinese restaurant syndrome in a UK context? In
the Netherlands, it's been discussed a lot over the years, with the same
outcome that's MSG is harmless for most people.

On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 20:22:10 -0500, barbie gee >
wrote:

>
>
>On Mon, 5 Sep 2016, sf wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2016 22:27:41 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>
>>> Ophelia wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>>
>>>> "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Autolyzed yeast extract is just their quaint way of hiding
>>>> monosodium glutamate.
>>>>
>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>> ==========
>>>>
>>>> Why is monosodium glutamate despised here so much? I use it,
>>>> although in minute amounts, and I it would be good to know what the
>>>> big problem is.
>>>
>>> Many reasons Ophelia but most based on thinking MSG is bad for you.
>>> Used properly, MSG is used to replace salt as it's a lower sodium item
>>> and doesnt make you want to salt the food. You use it in pinches for
>>> that. With reasonable use you can reduce your sodium intake by 40%.
>>>
>>> Most popular is to complain of MSG in chinese food but studies to date
>>> have shown severely low levels of reaction to MSG, but instead people
>>> not used to that cuisine, reacting to iodine (seaweed and shellfish)
>>> and other shellfish components. It became popular to blame MSG in the
>>> late 90's and the pervasive idea continues today. There are no
>>> scientifically made studies that show any MSG reaction among the
>>> populace once they rule out the more likely items like shellfish and
>>> derivatives from those.
>>>
>> Back in the days when MSG got a bad reputation, food "intolerances"
>> were virtually unknown. Overdo it and you get a headache, at least
>> that was my exSIL's symptom. I suppose there are different symptoms,
>> but that's what happened to her and she could point to eating Chinese
>> food. She cooked a lot of Chinese food at home too, so she was able
>> to narrow it down to using MSG or not. I don't need MSG or salt for
>> that matter. Soy sauce provides enough salt for me.
>>
>
>I do know that MSG can be a trigger ingredient for people who suffer from
>certain types of migraines.

Correct.

"Bruce" wrote in message
T...

In article >,
says...
>
> "tert in seattle" wrote in message
> ...
>
> Just as Kwok had stressed that he had only ever experienced the
Chinese
> restaurant syndrome in the American context, the syndrome was largely
> unknown in countries like Japan and China, both of whom had been using
> MSG for much longer than in the United States.51 Yet, during the 1970s
> at least, American researchers conducted no comparative studies of MSG
> research in either country and the syndrome's uniquely American origins
> went largely unexplored.
>
> =======
>
> Nevertheless, it is 'uniquely American origins'. Perhaps Americans are
> right to be wary of MSG even though it seems not to affect others.

Have you not heard of Chinese restaurant syndrome in a UK context? In
the Netherlands, it's been discussed a lot over the years, with the same
outcome that's MSG is harmless for most people.

=========

If there has been I haven't noticed. We haven't eaten in Chinese
restaurants for years but during that time, I have used MSG as I do now.



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

In article >,
says...
>
> On Tue, 06 Sep 2016 18:35:12 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
> >
> > Believe what you wish. BTW, if you think you are MSG intolerant,
> > remove all mushrooms from your diet.
>
> Mushrooms are a small player. Per 100 g = Rice cakes have 75 mg,
> Tomato (raw) has 203 mg, and Parmesan cheese has 840 mg.

Monosodium glutamate didn't get there naturally. Scroll down on

https://healthimpactnews.com/2014/3-...robably-didnt-
know-have-msg/

It's considered to be a factor in the epidemic of obesity.

http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science...o-obesity-and-
metabolic-syndrome

metabolic syndrome is a risk factor for developing type 2 diabetes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolic_syndrome

Janet UK