On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 19:02:12 -0400, Doris Night
> wrote:

> On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 11:33:59 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, October 22, 2016 at 12:58:37 AM UTC-10, Alan Holbrook wrote:
> >> Every once in a while, when I get the feeling that my arteries are still
> >> too flexible and my heart isn't working hard enough pumping blood, I'll
> >> make a large skillet of sawmill gravy and pour it over biscuits for
> >> breakfast. The recipe I follow says, as do all the other recipes I've seen
> >> that involve making a white sauce, that once you have the roux the color
> >> you want, you should take the pan off the heat to add the milk. I've often
> >> wondered why that is and what would happen if you added the milk directly
> >> to the pan containing the roux while it's still on the burner. Rather than
> >> risk seven years' bad luck or something similar trying it, I thought I'd
> >> ask. Can any of the RFC intelligentsia enlighten me?
> >
> >I'm not going to tell you how to make white sauce - that's a personal choice. OTOH, being able to make a white sauce should be a requirement for graduation from high school.
>
> For your entertainment, I will now tell you how my sister-in-law makes
> cheese sauce.
>
> For best results, get half wasted before beginning.
>
> Get the smallest saucepan you own - I think the one she uses is two
> cups - and fill it up with cold milk. Add a couple spoons of
> cornstarch and stir. This is the "bechamel" part. The only time she
> makes this is when she needs cheese sauce for broccoli. So she grates
> some cheap mild cheddar and adds this to the pot of cold milk. There
> is no salt in this, because salt is Bad For You. Then she turns the
> stove on low and waits for it to get hot, stirring a few times while
> it's warming up. When the whole thing boils over and gets all over the
> stove, it's done.
>
Now wait a minute... are you saying she doesn't use a timer? Dave
says his wife using the smoke alarm as one.



--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On 10/23/2016 12:14 AM, cshenk wrote:

> USA public school, 7,8 and normally 9. Also called Junior High.
>
Many US 'middle schools' are grades 6,7, and 8, followed by four years
of high school.

Brooklyn1 > wrote in
:

>
> Anyone who needs a recipe for white sauce is by default least skilled.
>

As any normal person would probably understand, Zero, a recipe isn't
necessarily something written down in a cookbook that you need to follow
step by step each time. Doing something from memory without having to
follow a list of written instructions is still a recipe.

I'd call you an asshole ewxcept that assholes serve a useful purpose.

On Saturday, October 22, 2016 at 5:37:46 PM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-10-22 3:26 PM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
>
> >> Naw, it should be a requirement for leaving elementary school
> >> and going into middle school (formerly known as junior high).
> >>
> >
> > middle school and junior high are two different things.
>
>
> I had to look it up because we don't have "middle school" around here.

Lower secondary school?

<http://www.ncee.org/programs-affiliates/center-on-international-education-benchmarking/top-performing-countries/canada-overview/canada-instructional-systems/>

Or do you just have primary school and secondary school?

Cindy Hamilton

> Wikipedia says it is also known as intermediate school or middle school.
> We don't have either in this area. A nearby and long established
> private school used to have a middle school designation but has done
> away with it.

On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 4:01:00 AM UTC-4, Alan Holbrook wrote:
> Brooklyn1 > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > Anyone who needs a recipe for white sauce is by default least skilled.
> >
>
> As any normal person would probably understand, Zero, a recipe isn't
> necessarily something written down in a cookbook that you need to follow
> step by step each time. Doing something from memory without having to
> follow a list of written instructions is still a recipe.
>
> I'd call you an asshole ewxcept that assholes serve a useful purpose.

He's not completely useless. He can be used as a bad example.

Cindy Hamilton

On 2016-10-23 8:14 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Saturday, October 22, 2016 at 5:37:46 PM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2016-10-22 3:26 PM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
>>
>>>> Naw, it should be a requirement for leaving elementary school
>>>> and going into middle school (formerly known as junior high).
>>>>
>>>
>>> middle school and junior high are two different things.
>>
>>
>> I had to look it up because we don't have "middle school" around here.
>
> Lower secondary school?
>
> <http://www.ncee.org/programs-affiliates/center-on-international-education-benchmarking/top-performing-countries/canada-overview/canada-instructional-systems/>
>
> Or do you just have primary school and secondary school?

Interesting site. I guess if it was on the internet it has to be true,
but that is not the way it is here. That chart had me totally confused.
Unlike their showing elementary school being ages 6-12 it is normally
6-13. In some school boards there are junior and senior elementary, but
that tends to be in cases where smaller schools no longer have the
student base for the full K-8 so they split them up to avoid split
grades. Their chart shows high school being for students 12-18, but it
starts at Gr.9 , usually age 14. We used to have 5 grades in high
school but about 20 years ago they dropped it to four years.

Their chart also shows a Bachelor Degree taking 1-4 years. When I went
to university our school required 15 full courses for a BA and to major
in a field there were required courses for each year of the program,
and some of those would have prerequisites from earlier levels. It beats
me how one could manage to get enough suitable credits for a degree in
one year. The chart also failed to note that there are BA degrees and
BA with Honours, the latter involving a BA and then an extra year and
includes a thesis.


>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
>> Wikipedia says it is also known as intermediate school or middle school.
>> We don't have either in this area. A nearby and long established
>> private school used to have a middle school designation but has done
>> away with it.
>

Alan Holbrook wrote:
>
> Every once in a while, when I get the feeling that my arteries are still
> too flexible and my heart isn't working hard enough pumping blood, I'll
> make a large skillet of sawmill gravy and pour it over biscuits for
> breakfast. The recipe I follow says, as do all the other recipes I've seen
> that involve making a white sauce, that once you have the roux the color
> you want, you should take the pan off the heat to add the milk. I've often
> wondered why that is and what would happen if you added the milk directly
> to the pan containing the roux while it's still on the burner. Rather than
> risk seven years' bad luck or something similar trying it, I thought I'd
> ask. Can any of the RFC intelligentsia enlighten me?

First, to answer your question: I've never removed the roux from heat
before adding the milk. I first looked up "white sauce" in the dandy old
Betty Crocker cookbook so many years ago. That book was my "cooking
101" textbook. I just looked again this morning and it does say to
remove from heat, stir in milk, then return to heat. huh. I must have
missed that part. I've always left it right on the burner and never a
problem.

I also use a very tiny wire whisk for making this. I just measured and
it's only 3/4 inch at it's widest. This gets into the rounded corners of
the smallest saucepan. It's perfect for stirring roux.

Also consider this sometime if you're making a gravy to put on
something. I also let the roux brown a tiny bit (it enhances the
flavor). More importantly, I don't add all milk. I like to add chicken
broth to replace some of the milk. I usually mix in 2/3 chicken broth
and 1/3 milk. Try it.

S Viemeister wrote:
>
> On 10/23/2016 12:14 AM, cshenk wrote:
>
> > USA public school, 7,8 and normally 9. Also called Junior High.
> >
> Many US 'middle schools' are grades 6,7, and 8, followed by four years
> of high school.

In Virginia, they changed from "junior high" to "middle school" in the
early 1990's. My daughter was right in the middle of that transition.

Junior High was grades 7-9
Middle School became grades 6-8

And that's the way it is now.

Personally, I thought the grades 7-9 junior high was a better
thing for the kids.

9th graders in school with 12th graders was a bit much, imo.

In article >,
says...
>
> On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 11:33:59 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, October 22, 2016 at 12:58:37 AM UTC-10, Alan Holbrook wrote:
> >> Every once in a while, when I get the feeling that my arteries are still
> >> too flexible and my heart isn't working hard enough pumping blood, I'll
> >> make a large skillet of sawmill gravy and pour it over biscuits for
> >> breakfast. The recipe I follow says, as do all the other recipes I've seen
> >> that involve making a white sauce, that once you have the roux the color
> >> you want, you should take the pan off the heat to add the milk. I've often
> >> wondered why that is and what would happen if you added the milk directly
> >> to the pan containing the roux while it's still on the burner. Rather than
> >> risk seven years' bad luck or something similar trying it, I thought I'd
> >> ask. Can any of the RFC intelligentsia enlighten me?
> >
> >I'm not going to tell you how to make white sauce - that's a personal choice. OTOH, being able to make a white sauce should be a requirement for graduation from high school.
>
> For your entertainment, I will now tell you how my sister-in-law makes
> cheese sauce.
>
> For best results, get half wasted before beginning.
>
> Get the smallest saucepan you own - I think the one she uses is two
> cups - and fill it up with cold milk. Add a couple spoons of
> cornstarch and stir. This is the "bechamel" part. The only time she
> makes this is when she needs cheese sauce for broccoli. So she grates
> some cheap mild cheddar and adds this to the pot of cold milk. There
> is no salt in this, because salt is Bad For You. Then she turns the
> stove on low and waits for it to get hot, stirring a few times while
> it's warming up. When the whole thing boils over and gets all over the
> stove, it's done.
>
LOL. Another SIL cooking saga.

The first year we were married my SIL A unexpectedly invited us to
Christmas dinner. When we arrived we found out why; she said "Boyfriend
and I are going out for a drink with friends, you're not invited. You
can look after the grandparents (one blind, one senile) and cook dinner.
Byeee". It was all raw; she had prepared nothing.

SIL and her BF rolled home drunk hours later, just as dinner was ready.
J and I served the dinner for six we had cooked, on the table we had
laid to SIL who had invited us as guests. Demented Granny said to SIL
"What a lovely meal you have made, A, you must have been slaving for
hours" and SIL smirked and said "Thanks, Gran, you're welcome".

Janet UK

On 10/23/2016 7:12 AM, Janet wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 11:33:59 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2016 at 12:58:37 AM UTC-10, Alan Holbrook wrote:
>>>> Every once in a while, when I get the feeling that my arteries are still
>>>> too flexible and my heart isn't working hard enough pumping blood, I'll
>>>> make a large skillet of sawmill gravy and pour it over biscuits for
>>>> breakfast. The recipe I follow says, as do all the other recipes I've seen
>>>> that involve making a white sauce, that once you have the roux the color
>>>> you want, you should take the pan off the heat to add the milk. I've often
>>>> wondered why that is and what would happen if you added the milk directly
>>>> to the pan containing the roux while it's still on the burner. Rather than
>>>> risk seven years' bad luck or something similar trying it, I thought I'd
>>>> ask. Can any of the RFC intelligentsia enlighten me?
>>>
>>> I'm not going to tell you how to make white sauce - that's a personal choice. OTOH, being able to make a white sauce should be a requirement for graduation from high school.
>>
>> For your entertainment, I will now tell you how my sister-in-law makes
>> cheese sauce.
>>
>> For best results, get half wasted before beginning.
>>
>> Get the smallest saucepan you own - I think the one she uses is two
>> cups - and fill it up with cold milk. Add a couple spoons of
>> cornstarch and stir. This is the "bechamel" part. The only time she
>> makes this is when she needs cheese sauce for broccoli. So she grates
>> some cheap mild cheddar and adds this to the pot of cold milk. There
>> is no salt in this, because salt is Bad For You. Then she turns the
>> stove on low and waits for it to get hot, stirring a few times while
>> it's warming up. When the whole thing boils over and gets all over the
>> stove, it's done.
>>
> LOL. Another SIL cooking saga.
>
> The first year we were married my SIL A unexpectedly invited us to
> Christmas dinner. When we arrived we found out why; she said "Boyfriend
> and I are going out for a drink with friends, you're not invited. You
> can look after the grandparents (one blind, one senile) and cook dinner.
> Byeee". It was all raw; she had prepared nothing.
>
> SIL and her BF rolled home drunk hours later, just as dinner was ready.
> J and I served the dinner for six we had cooked, on the table we had
> laid to SIL who had invited us as guests. Demented Granny said to SIL
> "What a lovely meal you have made, A, you must have been slaving for
> hours" and SIL smirked and said "Thanks, Gran, you're welcome".
>
> Janet UK
>
>
>


And we know who The Lord smiled upon that day. Well done.

Janet wrote:
>
> LOL. Another SIL cooking saga.
>
> The first year we were married my SIL A unexpectedly invited us to
> Christmas dinner. When we arrived we found out why; she said "Boyfriend
> and I are going out for a drink with friends, you're not invited. You
> can look after the grandparents (one blind, one senile) and cook dinner.
> Byeee". It was all raw; she had prepared nothing.
>
> SIL and her BF rolled home drunk hours later, just as dinner was ready.
> J and I served the dinner for six we had cooked, on the table we had
> laid to SIL who had invited us as guests. Demented Granny said to SIL
> "What a lovely meal you have made, A, you must have been slaving for
> hours" and SIL smirked and said "Thanks, Gran, you're welcome".

That's a good story and kudo's to you. You didn't say anything? I'm sure
that was hard not to do.

On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 09:10:31 -0400, Gary > wrote:

> Alan Holbrook wrote:
> >
> > Every once in a while, when I get the feeling that my arteries are still
> > too flexible and my heart isn't working hard enough pumping blood, I'll
> > make a large skillet of sawmill gravy and pour it over biscuits for
> > breakfast. The recipe I follow says, as do all the other recipes I've seen
> > that involve making a white sauce, that once you have the roux the color
> > you want, you should take the pan off the heat to add the milk. I've often
> > wondered why that is and what would happen if you added the milk directly
> > to the pan containing the roux while it's still on the burner. Rather than
> > risk seven years' bad luck or something similar trying it, I thought I'd
> > ask. Can any of the RFC intelligentsia enlighten me?
>
> First, to answer your question: I've never removed the roux from heat
> before adding the milk. I first looked up "white sauce" in the dandy old
> Betty Crocker cookbook so many years ago. That book was my "cooking
> 101" textbook. I just looked again this morning and it does say to
> remove from heat, stir in milk, then return to heat. huh. I must have
> missed that part. I've always left it right on the burner and never a
> problem.
>
> I also use a very tiny wire whisk for making this. I just measured and
> it's only 3/4 inch at it's widest. This gets into the rounded corners of
> the smallest saucepan. It's perfect for stirring roux.
>
> Also consider this sometime if you're making a gravy to put on
> something. I also let the roux brown a tiny bit (it enhances the
> flavor). More importantly, I don't add all milk. I like to add chicken
> broth to replace some of the milk. I usually mix in 2/3 chicken broth
> and 1/3 milk. Try it.

When I first started cooking, white sauce required a double boiler and
a 20 minute covered simmer. Then I threw off the shackles and started
doing it over direct heat without any encouragement from cookbooks or
television. I forged off in that direction unaided and alone.
<sniffle>


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

In article >, says...
>
> Janet wrote:
> >
> > LOL. Another SIL cooking saga.
> >
> > The first year we were married my SIL A unexpectedly invited us to
> > Christmas dinner. When we arrived we found out why; she said "Boyfriend
> > and I are going out for a drink with friends, you're not invited. You
> > can look after the grandparents (one blind, one senile) and cook dinner.
> > Byeee". It was all raw; she had prepared nothing.
> >
> > SIL and her BF rolled home drunk hours later, just as dinner was ready.
> > J and I served the dinner for six we had cooked, on the table we had
> > laid to SIL who had invited us as guests. Demented Granny said to SIL
> > "What a lovely meal you have made, A, you must have been slaving for
> > hours" and SIL smirked and said "Thanks, Gran, you're welcome".
>
> That's a good story and kudo's to you. You didn't say anything? I'm sure
> that was hard not to do.

I let it go; polite guest.

Janet UK

On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 11:23:11 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 09:10:31 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>
>> Alan Holbrook wrote:
>> >
>> > Every once in a while, when I get the feeling that my arteries are still
>> > too flexible and my heart isn't working hard enough pumping blood, I'll
>> > make a large skillet of sawmill gravy and pour it over biscuits for
>> > breakfast. The recipe I follow says, as do all the other recipes I've seen
>> > that involve making a white sauce, that once you have the roux the color
>> > you want, you should take the pan off the heat to add the milk. I've often
>> > wondered why that is and what would happen if you added the milk directly
>> > to the pan containing the roux while it's still on the burner. Rather than
>> > risk seven years' bad luck or something similar trying it, I thought I'd
>> > ask. Can any of the RFC intelligentsia enlighten me?
>>
>> First, to answer your question: I've never removed the roux from heat
>> before adding the milk. I first looked up "white sauce" in the dandy old
>> Betty Crocker cookbook so many years ago. That book was my "cooking
>> 101" textbook. I just looked again this morning and it does say to
>> remove from heat, stir in milk, then return to heat. huh. I must have
>> missed that part. I've always left it right on the burner and never a
>> problem.
>>
>> I also use a very tiny wire whisk for making this. I just measured and
>> it's only 3/4 inch at it's widest. This gets into the rounded corners of
>> the smallest saucepan. It's perfect for stirring roux.
>>
>> Also consider this sometime if you're making a gravy to put on
>> something. I also let the roux brown a tiny bit (it enhances the
>> flavor). More importantly, I don't add all milk. I like to add chicken
>> broth to replace some of the milk. I usually mix in 2/3 chicken broth
>> and 1/3 milk. Try it.
>
>When I first started cooking, white sauce required a double boiler and
>a 20 minute covered simmer. Then I threw off the shackles and started
>doing it over direct heat without any encouragement from cookbooks or
>television. I forged off in that direction unaided and alone.
><sniffle>

What a load of crap! Double boiler was used for many things, I still
use it occasionally, but never for white sauce.

On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 15:12:06 +0100, Janet > wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>>
>> On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 11:33:59 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, October 22, 2016 at 12:58:37 AM UTC-10, Alan Holbrook wrote:
>> >> Every once in a while, when I get the feeling that my arteries are still
>> >> too flexible and my heart isn't working hard enough pumping blood, I'll
>> >> make a large skillet of sawmill gravy and pour it over biscuits for
>> >> breakfast. The recipe I follow says, as do all the other recipes I've seen
>> >> that involve making a white sauce, that once you have the roux the color
>> >> you want, you should take the pan off the heat to add the milk. I've often
>> >> wondered why that is and what would happen if you added the milk directly
>> >> to the pan containing the roux while it's still on the burner. Rather than
>> >> risk seven years' bad luck or something similar trying it, I thought I'd
>> >> ask. Can any of the RFC intelligentsia enlighten me?
>> >
>> >I'm not going to tell you how to make white sauce - that's a personal choice. OTOH, being able to make a white sauce should be a requirement for graduation from high school.
>>
>> For your entertainment, I will now tell you how my sister-in-law makes
>> cheese sauce.
>>
>> For best results, get half wasted before beginning.
>>
>> Get the smallest saucepan you own - I think the one she uses is two
>> cups - and fill it up with cold milk. Add a couple spoons of
>> cornstarch and stir. This is the "bechamel" part. The only time she
>> makes this is when she needs cheese sauce for broccoli. So she grates
>> some cheap mild cheddar and adds this to the pot of cold milk. There
>> is no salt in this, because salt is Bad For You. Then she turns the
>> stove on low and waits for it to get hot, stirring a few times while
>> it's warming up. When the whole thing boils over and gets all over the
>> stove, it's done.
>>
> LOL. Another SIL cooking saga.
>
> The first year we were married my SIL A unexpectedly invited us to
>Christmas dinner. When we arrived we found out why; she said "Boyfriend
>and I are going out for a drink with friends, you're not invited. You
>can look after the grandparents (one blind, one senile) and cook dinner.
>Byeee". It was all raw; she had prepared nothing.
>
>SIL and her BF rolled home drunk hours later, just as dinner was ready.
>J and I served the dinner for six we had cooked, on the table we had
>laid to SIL who had invited us as guests. Demented Granny said to SIL
>"What a lovely meal you have made, A, you must have been slaving for
>hours" and SIL smirked and said "Thanks, Gran, you're welcome".

Your SIL story is way better than mine!

Doris

Janet wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> In article >,
> says...
> >
> > On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 11:33:59 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Saturday, October 22, 2016 at 12:58:37 AM UTC-10, Alan
> > > Holbrook wrote:
> > >> Every once in a while, when I get the feeling that my arteries
> > are still >> too flexible and my heart isn't working hard enough
> > pumping blood, I'll >> make a large skillet of sawmill gravy and
> > pour it over biscuits for >> breakfast. The recipe I follow says,
> > as do all the other recipes I've seen >> that involve making a
> > white sauce, that once you have the roux the color >> you want, you
> > should take the pan off the heat to add the milk. I've often >>
> > wondered why that is and what would happen if you added the milk
> > directly >> to the pan containing the roux while it's still on the
> > burner. Rather than >> risk seven years' bad luck or something
> > similar trying it, I thought I'd >> ask. Can any of the RFC
> > intelligentsia enlighten me?
> > >
> > > I'm not going to tell you how to make white sauce - that's a
> > > personal choice. OTOH, being able to make a white sauce should be
> > > a requirement for graduation from high school.
> >
> > For your entertainment, I will now tell you how my sister-in-law
> > makes cheese sauce.
> >
> > For best results, get half wasted before beginning.
> >
> > Get the smallest saucepan you own - I think the one she uses is two
> > cups - and fill it up with cold milk. Add a couple spoons of
> > cornstarch and stir. This is the "bechamel" part. The only time she
> > makes this is when she needs cheese sauce for broccoli. So she
> > grates some cheap mild cheddar and adds this to the pot of cold
> > milk. There is no salt in this, because salt is Bad For You. Then
> > she turns the stove on low and waits for it to get hot, stirring a
> > few times while it's warming up. When the whole thing boils over
> > and gets all over the stove, it's done.
> >
> LOL. Another SIL cooking saga.
>
> The first year we were married my SIL A unexpectedly invited us to
> Christmas dinner. When we arrived we found out why; she said
> "Boyfriend and I are going out for a drink with friends, you're not
> invited. You can look after the grandparents (one blind, one senile)
> and cook dinner. Byeee". It was all raw; she had prepared nothing.
>
> SIL and her BF rolled home drunk hours later, just as dinner was
> ready. J and I served the dinner for six we had cooked, on the table
> we had laid to SIL who had invited us as guests. Demented Granny said
> to SIL "What a lovely meal you have made, A, you must have been
> slaving for hours" and SIL smirked and said "Thanks, Gran, you're
> welcome".
>
> Janet UK
>
>

Ohh man, that sucks! But had the SIL been honest, it would have been a
fair outing break for them and you'd have probably agreed to give them
a day break I'm guessing.

--

On 2016-10-23 2:45 PM, wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 11:23:11 -0700, sf > wrote:

>> When I first started cooking, white sauce required a double boiler and
>> a 20 minute covered simmer. Then I threw off the shackles and started
>> doing it over direct heat without any encouragement from cookbooks or
>> television. I forged off in that direction unaided and alone.
>> <sniffle>
>
> What a load of crap! Double boiler was used for many things, I still
> use it occasionally, but never for white sauce.

My mother used to do it in a double boiler. She used to make it
frequently to make cream salmon or cream chicken with patty shells. It
was a slow and laborious job, perhaps one of the reasons I never did it.
My wife showed me how to make white sauce and it was much faster to do
in the pot on direct heat.

On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 11:22:37 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-10-23 2:45 PM, wrote:
> > On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 11:23:11 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >> When I first started cooking, white sauce required a double boiler and
> >> a 20 minute covered simmer. Then I threw off the shackles and started
> >> doing it over direct heat without any encouragement from cookbooks or
> >> television. I forged off in that direction unaided and alone.
> >> <sniffle>
> >
> > What a load of crap! Double boiler was used for many things, I still
> > use it occasionally, but never for white sauce.
>
> My mother used to do it in a double boiler. She used to make it
> frequently to make cream salmon or cream chicken with patty shells. It
> was a slow and laborious job, perhaps one of the reasons I never did it.
> My wife showed me how to make white sauce and it was much faster to do
> in the pot on direct heat.

My guess is that in this day of non-stick pans and microwave ovens, a double boiler is not necessary. I think my induction range will do quite nicely instead.

On 10/23/2016 12:45 PM, wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 11:23:11 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 09:10:31 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>>
>>> Alan Holbrook wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Every once in a while, when I get the feeling that my arteries are still
>>>> too flexible and my heart isn't working hard enough pumping blood, I'll
>>>> make a large skillet of sawmill gravy and pour it over biscuits for
>>>> breakfast. The recipe I follow says, as do all the other recipes I've seen
>>>> that involve making a white sauce, that once you have the roux the color
>>>> you want, you should take the pan off the heat to add the milk. I've often
>>>> wondered why that is and what would happen if you added the milk directly
>>>> to the pan containing the roux while it's still on the burner. Rather than
>>>> risk seven years' bad luck or something similar trying it, I thought I'd
>>>> ask. Can any of the RFC intelligentsia enlighten me?
>>>
>>> First, to answer your question: I've never removed the roux from heat
>>> before adding the milk. I first looked up "white sauce" in the dandy old
>>> Betty Crocker cookbook so many years ago. That book was my "cooking
>>> 101" textbook. I just looked again this morning and it does say to
>>> remove from heat, stir in milk, then return to heat. huh. I must have
>>> missed that part. I've always left it right on the burner and never a
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> I also use a very tiny wire whisk for making this. I just measured and
>>> it's only 3/4 inch at it's widest. This gets into the rounded corners of
>>> the smallest saucepan. It's perfect for stirring roux.
>>>
>>> Also consider this sometime if you're making a gravy to put on
>>> something. I also let the roux brown a tiny bit (it enhances the
>>> flavor). More importantly, I don't add all milk. I like to add chicken
>>> broth to replace some of the milk. I usually mix in 2/3 chicken broth
>>> and 1/3 milk. Try it.
>>
>> When I first started cooking, white sauce required a double boiler and
>> a 20 minute covered simmer. Then I threw off the shackles and started
>> doing it over direct heat without any encouragement from cookbooks or
>> television. I forged off in that direction unaided and alone.
>> <sniffle>
>
> What a load of crap! Double boiler was used for many things, I still
> use it occasionally, but never for white sauce.
>
An elderly cousin of my ex scrambled eggs using a double boiler.
Laborious perhaps, but they were damned good! I suppose she had learned
that technique from her French mother.

On 2016-10-23 6:10 PM, dsi1 wrote:
daylight saving time
>>> What a load of crap! Double boiler was used for many things, I
>>> still use it occasionally, but never for white sauce.
>>
>> My mother used to do it in a double boiler. She used to make it
>> frequently to make cream salmon or cream chicken with patty shells.
>> It was a slow and laborious job, perhaps one of the reasons I never
>> did it. My wife showed me how to make white sauce and it was much
>> faster to do in the pot on direct heat.
>
> My guess is that in this day of non-stick pans and microwave ovens, a
> double boiler is not necessary. I think my induction range will do
> quite nicely instead.

I don't think it has anything to do with non stick pans. I have made
enough white sauce to know that if you add cold milk to roux in a hot
pan there will be lumps forming. You can get them out with whisking, but
they can be avoided by adding the milk, preferably warmed, off the heat.

I was reacting to Lucretia's accusation of bullshit about the double
boiler, because I remember my mother doing it with a double boiler. I
Googled it and was not at all surprised to see recipes for white suace
using a double boiler.

On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 8:11:09 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>
> Also consider this sometime if you're making a gravy to put on
> something. I also let the roux brown a tiny bit (it enhances the
> flavor). More importantly, I don't add all milk. I like to add chicken
> broth to replace some of the milk. I usually mix in 2/3 chicken broth
> and 1/3 milk. Try it.
>
>
Several years ago a company took over our work cafeteria and the
manager and chef were both from far, far north. First breakfast they
prepared sausage gravy was on the menu, (sausage gravy is pretty much
on every breakfast menu here) I got a bowl and a biscuit, paid for it,
and went back to my department. It was sausage chicken gravy, as in
made with chicken broth. It was horrible on biscuits when you're
expecting good old milk gravy and sausage. BIG disappointment.

On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 1:45:26 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 11:23:11 -0700, sf > wrote:
> >
> >When I first started cooking, white sauce required a double boiler and
> >a 20 minute covered simmer. Then I threw off the shackles and started
> >doing it over direct heat without any encouragement from cookbooks or
> >television. I forged off in that direction unaided and alone.
> ><sniffle>
>
> What a load of crap! Double boiler was used for many things, I still
> use it occasionally, but never for white sauce.
>
>
That's a new one for me, too.

On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 1:14:09 PM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-10-23 6:10 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> daylight saving time
> >>> What a load of crap! Double boiler was used for many things, I
> >>> still use it occasionally, but never for white sauce.
> >>
> >> My mother used to do it in a double boiler. She used to make it
> >> frequently to make cream salmon or cream chicken with patty shells.
> >> It was a slow and laborious job, perhaps one of the reasons I never
> >> did it. My wife showed me how to make white sauce and it was much
> >> faster to do in the pot on direct heat.
> >
> > My guess is that in this day of non-stick pans and microwave ovens, a
> > double boiler is not necessary. I think my induction range will do
> > quite nicely instead.
>
> I don't think it has anything to do with non stick pans. I have made
> enough white sauce to know that if you add cold milk to roux in a hot
> pan there will be lumps forming. You can get them out with whisking, but
> they can be avoided by adding the milk, preferably warmed, off the heat.
>
> I was reacting to Lucretia's accusation of bullshit about the double
> boiler, because I remember my mother doing it with a double boiler. I
> Googled it and was not at all surprised to see recipes for white suace
> using a double boiler.

People used to use double boilers a lot back in the day. That's an old school technique. My guess is that it's still being taught in cooking schools in Europe. It could get popular again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBlbUECI3A

On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 15:10:14 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
wrote:

>On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 11:22:37 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2016-10-23 2:45 PM, wrote:
>> > On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 11:23:11 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>
>> >> When I first started cooking, white sauce required a double boiler and
>> >> a 20 minute covered simmer. Then I threw off the shackles and started
>> >> doing it over direct heat without any encouragement from cookbooks or
>> >> television. I forged off in that direction unaided and alone.
>> >> <sniffle>
>> >
>> > What a load of crap! Double boiler was used for many things, I still
>> > use it occasionally, but never for white sauce.
>>
>> My mother used to do it in a double boiler. She used to make it
>> frequently to make cream salmon or cream chicken with patty shells. It
>> was a slow and laborious job, perhaps one of the reasons I never did it.
>> My wife showed me how to make white sauce and it was much faster to do
>> in the pot on direct heat.
>
>My guess is that in this day of non-stick pans and microwave ovens, a double boiler is not necessary. I think my induction range will do quite nicely instead.

Non=stick pans has nothing to do with it, definitely would not use one
for white sauce!

On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 19:14:49 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2016-10-23 6:10 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>daylight saving time
>>>> What a load of crap! Double boiler was used for many things, I
>>>> still use it occasionally, but never for white sauce.
>>>
>>> My mother used to do it in a double boiler. She used to make it
>>> frequently to make cream salmon or cream chicken with patty shells.
>>> It was a slow and laborious job, perhaps one of the reasons I never
>>> did it. My wife showed me how to make white sauce and it was much
>>> faster to do in the pot on direct heat.
>>
>> My guess is that in this day of non-stick pans and microwave ovens, a
>> double boiler is not necessary. I think my induction range will do
>> quite nicely instead.
>
>I don't think it has anything to do with non stick pans. I have made
>enough white sauce to know that if you add cold milk to roux in a hot
>pan there will be lumps forming. You can get them out with whisking, but
>they can be avoided by adding the milk, preferably warmed, off the heat.
>
>I was reacting to Lucretia's accusation of bullshit about the double
>boiler, because I remember my mother doing it with a double boiler. I
>Googled it and was not at all surprised to see recipes for white suace
>using a double boiler.
>
So that makes sf your mothers age lol

On 2016-10-23 9:04 PM, wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 19:14:49 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>

>> I don't think it has anything to do with non stick pans. I have made
>> enough white sauce to know that if you add cold milk to roux in a hot
>> pan there will be lumps forming. You can get them out with whisking, but
>> they can be avoided by adding the milk, preferably warmed, off the heat.
>>
>> I was reacting to Lucretia's accusation of bullshit about the double
>> boiler, because I remember my mother doing it with a double boiler. I
>> Googled it and was not at all surprised to see recipes for white suace
>> using a double boiler.
>>
> So that makes sf your mothers age lol
>


No. It means that you didn't bother to check before you called BS about
using double boiler t make a white sauce. LOL all you want but the
joke is on you.

On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 22:01:59 -0300, wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 15:10:14 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
>wrote:
>
>>On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 11:22:37 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> On 2016-10-23 2:45 PM, wrote:
>>> > On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 11:23:11 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>>
>>> >> When I first started cooking, white sauce required a double boiler and
>>> >> a 20 minute covered simmer. Then I threw off the shackles and started
>>> >> doing it over direct heat without any encouragement from cookbooks or
>>> >> television. I forged off in that direction unaided and alone.
>>> >> <sniffle>
>>> >
>>> > What a load of crap! Double boiler was used for many things, I still
>>> > use it occasionally, but never for white sauce.
>>>
>>> My mother used to do it in a double boiler. She used to make it
>>> frequently to make cream salmon or cream chicken with patty shells. It
>>> was a slow and laborious job, perhaps one of the reasons I never did it.
>>> My wife showed me how to make white sauce and it was much faster to do
>>> in the pot on direct heat.
>>
>>My guess is that in this day of non-stick pans and microwave ovens, a double boiler is not necessary. I think my induction range will do quite nicely instead.
>
>Non=stick pans has nothing to do with it, definitely would not use one
>for white sauce!

I'd not use a non stick pan for anything... and I've made oceans of
white sauce in stainless steel, and never any lumps.... just about
every morning I made 30-40 quarts of white sauce in a steam jacketed
kettle... stirred with an aluminum paddle similar to a rowboat oar.
http://www.quartermaster.army.mil/jc...n_f/F00300.pdf

On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 3:02:08 PM UTC-10, wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 15:10:14 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsiyahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 11:22:37 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
> >> On 2016-10-23 2:45 PM, wrote:
> >> > On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 11:23:11 -0700, sf > wrote:
> >>
> >> >> When I first started cooking, white sauce required a double boiler and
> >> >> a 20 minute covered simmer. Then I threw off the shackles and started
> >> >> doing it over direct heat without any encouragement from cookbooks or
> >> >> television. I forged off in that direction unaided and alone.
> >> >> <sniffle>
> >> >
> >> > What a load of crap! Double boiler was used for many things, I still
> >> > use it occasionally, but never for white sauce.
> >>
> >> My mother used to do it in a double boiler. She used to make it
> >> frequently to make cream salmon or cream chicken with patty shells. It
> >> was a slow and laborious job, perhaps one of the reasons I never did it.
> >> My wife showed me how to make white sauce and it was much faster to do
> >> in the pot on direct heat.
> >
> >My guess is that in this day of non-stick pans and microwave ovens, a double boiler is not necessary. I think my induction range will do quite nicely instead.
>
> Non=stick pans has nothing to do with it, definitely would not use one
> for white sauce!

There's different ways to make a white sauce. Just because you don't know about it doesn't make it irrelevant. I have used non-stick pans and understand it's ability to suppress scorching. I understand that you wouldn't make white sauces any other way than you do now. I've made white sauces since I was a kid and back then, I didn't make a roux based one. Quit crowing about how limited your cooking skills are!

S Viemeister > wrote:
> On 10/23/2016 12:14 AM, cshenk wrote:
>
>> USA public school, 7,8 and normally 9. Also called Junior High.
>>
> Many US 'middle schools' are grades 6,7, and 8, followed by four years
> of high school.
>

Yes, a "middle school" is 6, 7 and 8 while a "junior high" is 7, 8 and 9.

--
jinx the minx

> wrote:
> On Saturday, October 22, 2016 at 4:37:46 PM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> On 2016-10-22 3:26 PM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
>>
>>>> Naw, it should be a requirement for leaving elementary school
>>>> and going into middle school (formerly known as junior high).
>>>>
>>>
>>> middle school and junior high are two different things.
>>
>>
>> I had to look it up because we don't have "middle school" around here.
>> Wikipedia says it is also known as intermediate school or middle school.
>> We don't have either in this area. A nearby and long established
>> private school used to have a middle school designation but has done
>> away with it.
>>
>>
> Doesn't make sense to me at all why it's now called 'middle
> school.'
>

In addition to the slightly different age grouping, middle schools are
organized more like elementary schools, which junior high schools are
organized more like high school. Studies have found that children in that
age group do better overall in the middle school concept than under the
junior high concept. Also in terms of growth and maturity, 6-8 graders
are more aligned than 7-9 graders.

--
jinx the minx

"jinx the minx" > wrote in message
...
>S Viemeister > wrote:
>> On 10/23/2016 12:14 AM, cshenk wrote:
>>
>>> USA public school, 7,8 and normally 9. Also called Junior High.
>>>
>> Many US 'middle schools' are grades 6,7, and 8, followed by four years
>> of high school.
>>
>
> Yes, a "middle school" is 6, 7 and 8 while a "junior high" is 7, 8 and 9.
>
> --
> jinx the minx

Not where I am. 6, 7, and 8, used to be Senior Elementary where I was, but
they changed it to middle school a few years ago, high school is 9, 10, 11,
12.

Cheri

On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 15:45:18 -0300, wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 11:23:11 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 09:10:31 -0400, Gary > wrote:
> >
> >> Alan Holbrook wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Every once in a while, when I get the feeling that my arteries are still
> >> > too flexible and my heart isn't working hard enough pumping blood, I'll
> >> > make a large skillet of sawmill gravy and pour it over biscuits for
> >> > breakfast. The recipe I follow says, as do all the other recipes I've seen
> >> > that involve making a white sauce, that once you have the roux the color
> >> > you want, you should take the pan off the heat to add the milk. I've often
> >> > wondered why that is and what would happen if you added the milk directly
> >> > to the pan containing the roux while it's still on the burner. Rather than
> >> > risk seven years' bad luck or something similar trying it, I thought I'd
> >> > ask. Can any of the RFC intelligentsia enlighten me?
> >>
> >> First, to answer your question: I've never removed the roux from heat
> >> before adding the milk. I first looked up "white sauce" in the dandy old
> >> Betty Crocker cookbook so many years ago. That book was my "cooking
> >> 101" textbook. I just looked again this morning and it does say to
> >> remove from heat, stir in milk, then return to heat. huh. I must have
> >> missed that part. I've always left it right on the burner and never a
> >> problem.
> >>
> >> I also use a very tiny wire whisk for making this. I just measured and
> >> it's only 3/4 inch at it's widest. This gets into the rounded corners of
> >> the smallest saucepan. It's perfect for stirring roux.
> >>
> >> Also consider this sometime if you're making a gravy to put on
> >> something. I also let the roux brown a tiny bit (it enhances the
> >> flavor). More importantly, I don't add all milk. I like to add chicken
> >> broth to replace some of the milk. I usually mix in 2/3 chicken broth
> >> and 1/3 milk. Try it.
> >
> >When I first started cooking, white sauce required a double boiler and
> >a 20 minute covered simmer. Then I threw off the shackles and started
> >doing it over direct heat without any encouragement from cookbooks or
> >television. I forged off in that direction unaided and alone.
> ><sniffle>
>
> What a load of crap! Double boiler was used for many things, I still
> use it occasionally, but never for white sauce.

And you're just as big an asshole as ever.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 17:10:59 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

> On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 8:11:09 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> >
> > Also consider this sometime if you're making a gravy to put on
> > something. I also let the roux brown a tiny bit (it enhances the
> > flavor). More importantly, I don't add all milk. I like to add chicken
> > broth to replace some of the milk. I usually mix in 2/3 chicken broth
> > and 1/3 milk. Try it.
> >
> >
> Several years ago a company took over our work cafeteria and the
> manager and chef were both from far, far north. First breakfast they
> prepared sausage gravy was on the menu, (sausage gravy is pretty much
> on every breakfast menu here) I got a bowl and a biscuit, paid for it,
> and went back to my department. It was sausage chicken gravy, as in
> made with chicken broth. It was horrible on biscuits when you're
> expecting good old milk gravy and sausage. BIG disappointment.

A broth based white sauce is called velouté. It's one of the five
sauces of French cuisine that were called the five "mother sauces" by
Auguste Escoffier, but I can understand why you were disappointed.
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/e...ce-recipe.html



--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

In article >,
says...
>
> On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 1:14:09 PM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
> > On 2016-10-23 6:10 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> > daylight saving time
> > >>> What a load of crap! Double boiler was used for many things, I
> > >>> still use it occasionally, but never for white sauce.
> > >>
> > >> My mother used to do it in a double boiler. She used to make it
> > >> frequently to make cream salmon or cream chicken with patty shells.
> > >> It was a slow and laborious job, perhaps one of the reasons I never
> > >> did it. My wife showed me how to make white sauce and it was much
> > >> faster to do in the pot on direct heat.
> > >
> > > My guess is that in this day of non-stick pans and microwave ovens, a
> > > double boiler is not necessary. I think my induction range will do
> > > quite nicely instead.
> >
> > I don't think it has anything to do with non stick pans. I have made
> > enough white sauce to know that if you add cold milk to roux in a hot
> > pan there will be lumps forming. You can get them out with whisking, but
> > they can be avoided by adding the milk, preferably warmed, off the heat.
> >
> > I was reacting to Lucretia's accusation of bullshit about the double
> > boiler, because I remember my mother doing it with a double boiler. I
> > Googled it and was not at all surprised to see recipes for white suace
> > using a double boiler.
>
> People used to use double boilers a lot back in the day. That's an old school technique. My guess is that it's still being taught in cooking schools in Europe. It could get popular again.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBlbUECI3A

OMG, that might be the elusive "best scrambled eggs in the world"
restaurant recipe I've posted about here. Have to try it!

I always use a double pan when making pouring custard (eggs, cream or
milk, sugar); and making lemon curd ( eggs, lemons, sugar, butter).
Never done it for white sauce.

Janet UK

Janet UK

On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 9:02:08 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>
> Non=stick pans has nothing to do with it, definitely would not use one
> for white sauce!

As you wish. I rarely make white sauce, but when I'm putting one together
for, say, scalloped potatoes, I use a nonstick saucier. Makes cleanup
a breeze.

Cindy Hamilton

On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 19:29:18 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
wrote:

>On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 3:02:08 PM UTC-10, wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 15:10:14 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsiyahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 11:22:37 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>> >> On 2016-10-23 2:45 PM, wrote:
>> >> > On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 11:23:11 -0700, sf > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> When I first started cooking, white sauce required a double boiler and
>> >> >> a 20 minute covered simmer. Then I threw off the shackles and started
>> >> >> doing it over direct heat without any encouragement from cookbooks or
>> >> >> television. I forged off in that direction unaided and alone.
>> >> >> <sniffle>
>> >> >
>> >> > What a load of crap! Double boiler was used for many things, I still
>> >> > use it occasionally, but never for white sauce.
>> >>
>> >> My mother used to do it in a double boiler. She used to make it
>> >> frequently to make cream salmon or cream chicken with patty shells. It
>> >> was a slow and laborious job, perhaps one of the reasons I never did it.
>> >> My wife showed me how to make white sauce and it was much faster to do
>> >> in the pot on direct heat.
>> >
>> >My guess is that in this day of non-stick pans and microwave ovens, a double boiler is not necessary. I think my induction range will do quite nicely instead.
>>
>> Non=stick pans has nothing to do with it, definitely would not use one
>> for white sauce!
>
>There's different ways to make a white sauce. Just because you don't know about it doesn't make it irrelevant. I have used non-stick pans and understand it's ability to suppress scorching. I understand that you wouldn't make white sauces any other way than you do now. I've made white sauces since I was a kid and back then, I didn't make a roux based one. Quit crowing about how limited your cooking skills are!

Cough, cough - the original poster specifically asked about roux based
white sauces.

On Monday, October 24, 2016 at 1:08:42 AM UTC-10, wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 19:29:18 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi1yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 3:02:08 PM UTC-10, wrote:
> >> On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 15:10:14 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsiyahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 11:22:37 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
> >> >> On 2016-10-23 2:45 PM, wrote:
> >> >> > On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 11:23:11 -0700, sf > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >> When I first started cooking, white sauce required a double boiler and
> >> >> >> a 20 minute covered simmer. Then I threw off the shackles and started
> >> >> >> doing it over direct heat without any encouragement from cookbooks or
> >> >> >> television. I forged off in that direction unaided and alone.
> >> >> >> <sniffle>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > What a load of crap! Double boiler was used for many things, I still
> >> >> > use it occasionally, but never for white sauce.
> >> >>
> >> >> My mother used to do it in a double boiler. She used to make it
> >> >> frequently to make cream salmon or cream chicken with patty shells. It
> >> >> was a slow and laborious job, perhaps one of the reasons I never did it.
> >> >> My wife showed me how to make white sauce and it was much faster to do
> >> >> in the pot on direct heat.
> >> >
> >> >My guess is that in this day of non-stick pans and microwave ovens, a double boiler is not necessary. I think my induction range will do quite nicely instead.
> >>
> >> Non=stick pans has nothing to do with it, definitely would not use one
> >> for white sauce!
> >
> >There's different ways to make a white sauce. Just because you don't know about it doesn't make it irrelevant. I have used non-stick pans and understand it's ability to suppress scorching. I understand that you wouldn't make white sauces any other way than you do now. I've made white sauces since I was a kid and back then, I didn't make a roux based one. Quit crowing about how limited your cooking skills are!
>
> Cough, cough - the original poster specifically asked about roux based
> white sauces.

That's a rather clumsy redirect. I was responding to a poster about double boilers.

In article >, cshenk1
@cox.net says...
> > LOL. Another SIL cooking saga.
> >
> > The first year we were married my SIL A unexpectedly invited us to
> > Christmas dinner. When we arrived we found out why; she said
> > "Boyfriend and I are going out for a drink with friends, you're not
> > invited. You can look after the grandparents (one blind, one senile)
> > and cook dinner. Byeee". It was all raw; she had prepared nothing.
> >
> > SIL and her BF rolled home drunk hours later, just as dinner was
> > ready. J and I served the dinner for six we had cooked, on the table
> > we had laid to SIL who had invited us as guests. Demented Granny said
> > to SIL "What a lovely meal you have made, A, you must have been
> > slaving for hours" and SIL smirked and said "Thanks, Gran, you're
> > welcome".
> >
> > Janet UK
> >
> >
>
> Ohh man, that sucks! But had the SIL been honest, it would have been a
> fair outing break for them and you'd have probably agreed to give them
> a day break I'm guessing.

She wasn't their carer; far from it. The grandparents lived in their
own home and had come as guests, like us. They only lived a mile from
SIL but the selfish bitch rarely visited. Grandad was 96 and stone blind
but as sharp as a tack; still running their household and caring for his
demented wife.

Just weeks after that Christmas dinner, one Saturday morning I got a
frantic phone call from my MIL to get over to her parents' house ASAP
(50 miles away on the other side of London).Their next door neighbour
had phoned to say she thought something was wrong; neither had been seen
out for days and demented Granny was refusing to let her in. SIL A, only
a mile away, hadn't got time as she was about to go and play netball, so
callously passed the message to her parents 200 miles away. They phoned
us.

Gran let us in, frail, pale, cold and confused, and said Grandad was
fast asleep in bed and we really shouldn't wake him up as he hadn't been
well.

The old man was stone cold dead and obviously had been for several
days. In a row on the floor beside the bed, were six plates of
decomposing food. She said "I've been making dinners but he's got no
appetite, he must be too tired to eat.". She had been sleeping in the
same bed beside his corpse every night.

The house was icy cold because without him, she didn't know how to
work the gas meter. There was no food left in the house. Once we'd
dealt with the Dr and undertaker we took Gran home to our place to get
her warm, fed and cleaned up and look after her until MIL came to fetch
her. Still no sign of, or word from SIL :-(

Janet UK

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 03:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 9:02:08 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>>
>> Non=stick pans has nothing to do with it, definitely would not use one
>> for white sauce!
>
>As you wish. I rarely make white sauce, but when I'm putting one together
>for, say, scalloped potatoes, I use a nonstick saucier. Makes cleanup
>a breeze.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

I have a very heavy metal one (aluminum I think, highly recommended by
Delia Smith anyway) and I do the sauce then put the pan in the
dishwasher. Cleanup doesn't get any easier than that!

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> I have made
> enough white sauce to know that if you add cold milk to roux in a hot
> pan there will be lumps forming. You can get them out with whisking, but
> they can be avoided by adding the milk, preferably warmed, off the heat.

Just so you know, Dave... That's not true unless you are adding too
much milk too fast.

When I make white sauce, once the roux is done cooking, I leave it
on the low set burner and slowly add cold milk, whisking all the
time. Starting with just a slow drizzle of milk. The more you get
mixed in nicely, the more milk you can add at a time. The cold milk
and the burner on are not the issue, it's all about slowly adding
the milk. I've never gotten lumps doing it my way.

It does work fine. :-D