In article >, jmcquown says...
>
> On 11/7/2016 12:15 PM, Gary wrote:
> > IMO, best to live a little and at least eat well occasionally. Better
> > than living much longer due to crappy diet. My parents do that now.
> > Doctor basically tells them to not eat anything that they love so they
> > eat crap each day (and very little of it).
> >
> > I tell Mom to eat what she wants and enjoy the rest of her life. I'd
> > like her to live forever but not if she's not enjoying life and not even
> > eating well. I plan to do the same. At some point you just have to
> > say...I've lived a long time, no need to suffer just to hang on to
> > another few years.
>
> I hear ya, Gary. My mother was on a "low cholesterol, low sodium" diet
> for years. She did it because some doctor at the time (late 1980's)
> told her she should. It sucked. She hated having something like a
> skinless chicken breast poached in low-sodium chicken broth for dinner.
> No real eggs, Egg Beaters or the equivalent. No butter, that
> low-cholesterol spread instead.
>
> Dad didn't like it either, but he went along with it. Like many people
> of their generation they simply didn't question doctors or what was
> touted as the "latest research".

In those days, people didn't have access to Internet kooks, so it was a
bit harder to say that your doctor was wrong and that you're going to
follow fandangle theory number 27.

In article >, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> I like lots of different soups. I have made them with chicken, capon,
> beef, smoked ham hocks (pea soup) and lamb. I have used vegetable
> stock. I have never enjoyed turkey soup. I have had it ofen enough to
> know it's not worth my time to use a turkey carcass to make soup. Maybe
> if I had a sick neighbour and wanted to send over some food I could whip
> up some turkey soup. They would be more likely to enjoy it than I would.

Ditto, except neither of us has tried Doris Night's MIL's steamed
turkey carcass for soup. That might be good

leo

On 7 Nov 2016 17:24:41 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>On 2016-11-07, jmcquown > wrote:
>
>> On 11/6/2016 4:03 PM, Doris Night wrote:
>
>>> in it, and will kill you) before puting it in the oven, along with
>>> several cups of water in the roasting pan, and with the lid on.
>
>Mightent one of those cups contain flour, as in "flour slurry"?

Good lord no. The "gravy" is made after the turkey is all cooked. Pan
juices are poured into a (too small) saucepan, and thickened with
cornstarch.

Kinda the same as how they all make "cheese sauce".

Doris

On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 12:30:18 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 11/7/2016 12:15 PM, Gary wrote:
>> IMO, best to live a little and at least eat well occasionally. Better
>> than living much longer due to crappy diet. My parents do that now.
>> Doctor basically tells them to not eat anything that they love so they
>> eat crap each day (and very little of it).
>>
>> I tell Mom to eat what she wants and enjoy the rest of her life. I'd
>> like her to live forever but not if she's not enjoying life and not even
>> eating well. I plan to do the same. At some point you just have to
>> say...I've lived a long time, no need to suffer just to hang on to
>> another few years.
>
>I hear ya, Gary. My mother was on a "low cholesterol, low sodium" diet
>for years. She did it because some doctor at the time (late 1980's)
>told her she should. It sucked. She hated having something like a
>skinless chicken breast poached in low-sodium chicken broth for dinner.
> No real eggs, Egg Beaters or the equivalent. No butter, that
>low-cholesterol spread instead.
>
>Dad didn't like it either, but he went along with it. Like many people
>of their generation they simply didn't question doctors or what was
>touted as the "latest research".
>
>By the time I got here (she was 81 at the time) she'd pretty much told
>the doctors to hell with it. Said she'd eat whatever she wanted and
>enjoy it. Go Mom!

My poor MIL has congestive heart failure *and* her kidneys are
starting to fail.

So she's on an extremely low sodium, low fat diet for her heart plus
low potassium and low phosphorous for her kidneys.

The list of things she isn't supposed to eat would blow you away.
Potatoes, squash, bananas, tomatoes, whole grains, beans - it goes on
and on. Basically anything that tastes good or would normally be
considered to be good for you.

But it's still no excuse to skin a turkey.

Doris

Jeßus > Wrote in message:
> Just talking to Mum (who is currently making a cauliflower bake) and
> we got onto the topic of self-cleaning ovens. I've had no experience
> with them and would like to hear from anyone with one. Do they really
> clean effectively or do they need a little 'help' along the way? Are
> they worth having?
>
> I've been considering replacing the gas stove as it's starting to show
> signs of wear and tear. Thanks.
>

The oven I have now is my first self cleaning oven. I think it
cleans it pretty well. You just set it, open some windowsand let
it go. It will smoke depending on how much it needs to clean so
after the cycle finishes let it cool down and just wipe out the
ash with some soapy water and then with just plain water that the
burned on food and grease turned into. At least that's my
experience. You need to clean the racks separately because you
don't want to leave them in during the self cleaning cycle.


--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 5:06:03 AM UTC-5, Cheryl wrote:
> Jeßus > Wrote in message:
> > Just talking to Mum (who is currently making a cauliflower bake) and
> > we got onto the topic of self-cleaning ovens. I've had no experience
> > with them and would like to hear from anyone with one. Do they really
> > clean effectively or do they need a little 'help' along the way? Are
> > they worth having?
> >
> > I've been considering replacing the gas stove as it's starting to show
> > signs of wear and tear. Thanks.
> >
>
> The oven I have now is my first self cleaning oven. I think it
> cleans it pretty well. You just set it, open some windows
> and let
> it go. It will smoke depending on how much it needs to clean so
> after the cycle finishes let it cool down and just wipe out the
> ash with some soapy water and then with just plain water that the
> burned on food and grease turned into. At least that's my
> experience. You need to clean the racks separately because you
> don't want to leave them in during the self cleaning cycle.

Per the instructions on my range, the racks can be left in during
the cleaning cycle. The price you pay is that they won't slide
as smoothly. ISTR they recommend spraying the outer edges with
cooking spray (Pam) as a lubricant.

Cindy Hamilton

On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 03:31:44 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 5:06:03 AM UTC-5, Cheryl wrote:
>> Jeßus > Wrote in message:
>> > Just talking to Mum (who is currently making a cauliflower bake) and
>> > we got onto the topic of self-cleaning ovens. I've had no experience
>> > with them and would like to hear from anyone with one. Do they really
>> > clean effectively or do they need a little 'help' along the way? Are
>> > they worth having?
>> >
>> > I've been considering replacing the gas stove as it's starting to show
>> > signs of wear and tear. Thanks.
>> >
>>
>> The oven I have now is my first self cleaning oven. I think it
>> cleans it pretty well. You just set it, open some windows
>> and let
>> it go. It will smoke depending on how much it needs to clean so
>> after the cycle finishes let it cool down and just wipe out the
>> ash with some soapy water and then with just plain water that the
>> burned on food and grease turned into. At least that's my
>> experience. You need to clean the racks separately because you
>> don't want to leave them in during the self cleaning cycle.
>
>Per the instructions on my range, the racks can be left in during
>the cleaning cycle. The price you pay is that they won't slide
>as smoothly. ISTR they recommend spraying the outer edges with
>cooking spray (Pam) as a lubricant.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

I thought of doing that, have always left the racks in, can't see
doing the worst bit of the job in order to keep the racks shiny. Mine
are fine, it's not hard moving them. One thing I do is just before
cleaning, I shift the racks from their usual position so the metal the
rack rests on can be easily cleaned.

My range is 32 yrs old and has a continuous cleaning oven, it's never been cleaned and looks fine. I'm not sure what kind of food in the oven splatters stuff all over the oven.

On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 05:29:51 -0800 (PST), wrote:

>My range is 32 yrs old and has a continuous cleaning oven, it's never been cleaned and looks fine. I'm not sure what kind of food in the oven splatters stuff all over the oven.

Quite easy. Often when I roast spuds, I do them in dripping and there
will be a popping sound and seemingly the dripping seems to explode
and splatter over the sides. Hard to explain, but that's definitely
one way. Or when heating the fat in the tray for Yorkshire puds, the
oven is at 400 or more and it splatters.

> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 03:31:44 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 5:06:03 AM UTC-5, Cheryl wrote:
>>> Jeßus > Wrote in message:
>>> > Just talking to Mum (who is currently making a cauliflower bake) and
>>> > we got onto the topic of self-cleaning ovens. I've had no experience
>>> > with them and would like to hear from anyone with one. Do they really
>>> > clean effectively or do they need a little 'help' along the way? Are
>>> > they worth having?
>>> >
>>> > I've been considering replacing the gas stove as it's starting to show
>>> > signs of wear and tear. Thanks.
>>> >
>>>
>>> The oven I have now is my first self cleaning oven. I think it
>>> cleans it pretty well. You just set it, open some windows
>>> and let
>>> it go. It will smoke depending on how much it needs to clean so
>>> after the cycle finishes let it cool down and just wipe out the
>>> ash with some soapy water and then with just plain water that the
>>> burned on food and grease turned into. At least that's my
>>> experience. You need to clean the racks separately because you
>>> don't want to leave them in during the self cleaning cycle.
>>
>>Per the instructions on my range, the racks can be left in during
>>the cleaning cycle. The price you pay is that they won't slide
>>as smoothly. ISTR they recommend spraying the outer edges with
>>cooking spray (Pam) as a lubricant.
>>
>>Cindy Hamilton
>
> I thought of doing that, have always left the racks in, can't see
> doing the worst bit of the job in order to keep the racks shiny. Mine
> are fine, it's not hard moving them. One thing I do is just before
> cleaning, I shift the racks from their usual position so the metal the
> rack rests on can be easily cleaned.

Mine says the racks can be left in, I use the self clean fairly often, and
never had a problem with the racks not sliding easily, maybe that is yet to
come.

Cheri

On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 1:33:53 AM UTC-5, Jeßus wrote:
> Just talking to Mum (who is currently making a cauliflower bake) and
> we got onto the topic of self-cleaning ovens. I've had no experience
> with them and would like to hear from anyone with one. Do they really
> clean effectively or do they need a little 'help' along the way? Are
> they worth having?
>
> I've been considering replacing the gas stove as it's starting to show
> signs of wear and tear. Thanks.

The main reasons I use my oven is to make pizza, mac and cheese and to heat taco shells.

On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 07:30:08 -0800, "Cheri" >
wrote:

> Mine says the racks can be left in, I use the self clean fairly often, and
> never had a problem with the racks not sliding easily, maybe that is yet to
> come.

Mine says specifically not to do it. I did leave racks in the oven
that came with the house during the self-clean cycle and had no
problems, but maybe I'm not bothered by a little more friction than
usual. I'm worried about possible warping, and that's why I won't do
it with this oven.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 07:30:08 -0800, "Cheri" >
> wrote:
>
>> Mine says the racks can be left in, I use the self clean fairly often,
>> and
>> never had a problem with the racks not sliding easily, maybe that is yet
>> to
>> come.
>
> Mine says specifically not to do it. I did leave racks in the oven
> that came with the house during the self-clean cycle and had no
> problems, but maybe I'm not bothered by a little more friction than
> usual. I'm worried about possible warping, and that's why I won't do
> it with this oven.

Yes, my old one said not to do it, but I always did too. The new GE says no
need to remove them to clean as they are coated racks. So far, no problem.

Cheri

On 11/8/2016 7:02 AM, wrote:

> On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 03:31:44 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
>> >Per the instructions on my range, the racks can be left in during
>> >the cleaning cycle. The price you pay is that they won't slide
>> >as smoothly. ISTR they recommend spraying the outer edges with
>> >cooking spray (Pam) as a lubricant.
>> >
>> >Cindy Hamilton

> I thought of doing that, have always left the racks in, can't see
> doing the worst bit of the job in order to keep the racks shiny. Mine
> are fine, it's not hard moving them. One thing I do is just before
> cleaning, I shift the racks from their usual position so the metal the
> rack rests on can be easily cleaned.

Huh, good points. I guess I don't really care if they aren't shiny. It
sure would make the job easier. My owners manual said it was better to
take them out, and just for the reasons you state, not that it would
destroy them or anything. Thanks.

--
ღ.¸¸.œ«*¨`*œ¶
Cheryl

On 2016-11-08, Doris Night > wrote:


> juices are poured into a (too small) saucepan, and thickened with
> cornstarch.

The only thing I thicken with cornstarch is pies and Chinese food.
Gravy is made with flour.

nb

On 2016-11-08, Doris Night > wrote:

> But it's still no excuse to skin a turkey.

......or use cornstarch in a gravy!

On 11/8/2016 8:57 AM, wrote:

> On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 05:29:51 -0800 (PST), wrote:
>
>> My range is 32 yrs old and has a continuous cleaning oven, it's
>> never been cleaned and looks fine. I'm not sure what kind of food
>> in the oven splatters stuff all over the oven.
>
> Quite easy. Often when I roast spuds, I do them in dripping and
> there will be a popping sound and seemingly the dripping seems to
> explode and splatter over the sides. Hard to explain, but that's
> definitely one way. Or when heating the fat in the tray for
> Yorkshire puds, the oven is at 400 or more and it splatters.
>
And when I cook bacon, it's always in the oven and that will splatter.
Occasional tipping of something a little too much, just random spills.
I'm definitely not perfect in the kitchen.

--
ღ.¸¸.œ«*¨`*œ¶
Cheryl

On 11/8/2016 10:37 AM, wrote:

> On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 1:33:53 AM UTC-5, Jeßus wrote:
>> Just talking to Mum (who is currently making a cauliflower bake) and
>> we got onto the topic of self-cleaning ovens. I've had no experience
>> with them and would like to hear from anyone with one. Do they really
>> clean effectively or do they need a little 'help' along the way? Are
>> they worth having?
>>
>> I've been considering replacing the gas stove as it's starting to show
>> signs of wear and tear. Thanks.
>
> The main reasons I use my oven is to make pizza, mac and cheese and to heat taco shells.
>
I can see why that wouldn't make any messes. Pizza though, unless you
always use a pan. I like my pizza crust crispy so depending on the crust
type, I don't always use a pan. There might be some cheese overflow.

--
ღ.¸¸.œ«*¨`*œ¶
Cheryl

On 11/8/2016 6:06 PM, Cheryl wrote:
> On 11/8/2016 10:37 AM, wrote:
>> The main reasons I use my oven is to make pizza, mac and cheese and to
>> heat taco shells.
>>
> I can see why that wouldn't make any messes. Pizza though, unless you
> always use a pan. I like my pizza crust crispy so depending on the crust
> type, I don't always use a pan. There might be some cheese overflow.
>
You could put a baking sheet on the shelf below the one holding the pizza.

On 11/6/2016 4:17 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> The best thing about it being just the two of us for Thanksgiving
> is that there's no one to see or criticize us standing in the
> kitchen, peeling the crispy skin off the turkey and eating it
> right there.

That sounds perfect to me!

--
ღ.¸¸.œ«*¨`*œ¶
Cheryl

On 11/8/2016 1:01 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2016-11-08, Doris Night > wrote:
>
>> But it's still no excuse to skin a turkey.
>
> .....or use cornstarch in a gravy!
>
There is no reason not to use cornstarch slurry to thicken a sauce or gravy.

Jill

notbob wrote:
>
> On 2016-11-08, Doris Night > wrote:
>
> > juices are poured into a (too small) saucepan, and thickened with
> > cornstarch.
>
> The only thing I thicken with cornstarch is pies and Chinese food.
> Gravy is made with flour.

I just made 6 pints of the bestest chicken stock/broth ever 2 days ago.
Did it in the crock pot. Simmered for 24 hours on low, then turned to
high with lid off to reduce for another 5 hours. OMG, it's so tasty.
You'll never find this in a box or can at the grocery store.

I made a tiny bit of gravy yesterday using just that and some
cornstarch to thicken. YUM. Seriously, no extra flavors need to be
added.

On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 1:01:50 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
> On 2016-11-08, Doris Night > wrote:
>
> > But it's still no excuse to skin a turkey.
>
> .....or use cornstarch in a gravy!

Dogmatic much?

I think I'll keep thickening gravy with cornstarch. I like
the results.

Cindy Hamilton

On 8 Nov 2016 18:00:20 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>On 2016-11-08, Doris Night > wrote:
>
>
>> juices are poured into a (too small) saucepan, and thickened with
>> cornstarch.
>
>The only thing I thicken with cornstarch is pies and Chinese food.
>Gravy is made with flour.
>
>nb


Pie Filling Thickeners
All-purpose flour produces a somewhat cloudy filling; you'll use more
of it than you would higher-starch thickeners. Learn more ?
*Quick-cooking tapioca makes filling bright and clear, but also gives
it a stippled (and for some, "gluey") texture. Filling mixed with
tapioca needs to rest 15 to 30 minutes before baking, for the tapioca
to soften.
*Instant ClearJel keeps fillings thick through a great range of
temperatures, making it ideal for pies that are frozen, before or
after baking. Learn more ?
*Pie Filling Enhancer thickens fruit pie fillings the same way Instant
ClearJel does. Its advantage is added ascorbic acid (a flavor
enhancer), and superfine sugar, which prevents it from clumping. Pie
Filling Enhancer is about half sugar; so you'll want to reduce the
sugar in your recipe as directed below. Learn more ?
*Cornstarch has thickening power similar to that of Instant ClearJel.
Like flour, it lends a cloudy, semi-transparent look to filling. It
can also give filling a chalky or floury taste. For full
effectiveness, make sure the pie filling is bubbling up through the
crust before removing your pie from the oven.
From King Arthur

Gravy is thickened with either cornstarch or flour depending upon your
preference. Both methods are equally acceptable and produce two
different results.

Janet US

On 2016-11-08 2:19 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 11/8/2016 1:01 PM, notbob wrote:
>> On 2016-11-08, Doris Night > wrote:
>>
>>> But it's still no excuse to skin a turkey.
>>
>> .....or use cornstarch in a gravy!
>>
> There is no reason not to use cornstarch slurry to thicken a sauce or
> gravy.
>


Well... other than the appearance and texture. Cornstarch can give it a
little too much of a sheen. I prefer flour or Veloutine (potato starch
product).

On 11/8/2016 2:45 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 1:01:50 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
>> On 2016-11-08, Doris Night > wrote:
>>
>>> But it's still no excuse to skin a turkey.
>>
>> .....or use cornstarch in a gravy!
>
> Dogmatic much?
>
> I think I'll keep thickening gravy with cornstarch. I like
> the results.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
No need for constant whisking to prevent lumps is a good enough reason.

Jill

On 11/6/2016 9:58 AM, Doris Night wrote:

> My Whirlpool has a Steam-clean setting in addition to the self-clean
> one. You pour a cup of water in the bottom, and it steams off the
> dripped on stuff. I tried it last week and it works nicely.

My GE has that too but I haven't tried it yet. Thanks for the reminder.

--
ღ.¸¸.œ«*¨`*œ¶
Cheryl

On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 9:46:02 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 1:01:50 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
> > On 2016-11-08, Doris Night > wrote:
> >
> > > But it's still no excuse to skin a turkey.
> >
> > .....or use cornstarch in a gravy!
>
> Dogmatic much?
>
> I think I'll keep thickening gravy with cornstarch. I like
> the results.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

This is America ferchristsake! We can do whatever we want in whatever way we want. I use crushed corn chips as a thickener - you won't see any commies doing that!

On 11/8/2016 1:04 PM, Cheryl wrote:
> On 11/8/2016 8:57 AM, wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 05:29:51 -0800 (PST), wrote:
>>
>>> My range is 32 yrs old and has a continuous cleaning oven, it's
>>> never been cleaned and looks fine. I'm not sure what kind of food
>>> in the oven splatters stuff all over the oven.
>>
>> Quite easy. Often when I roast spuds, I do them in dripping and
>> there will be a popping sound and seemingly the dripping seems to
>> explode and splatter over the sides. Hard to explain, but that's
>> definitely one way. Or when heating the fat in the tray for
>> Yorkshire puds, the oven is at 400 or more and it splatters.
>>
> And when I cook bacon, it's always in the oven and that will splatter.
> Occasional tipping of something a little too much, just random spills.
> I'm definitely not perfect in the kitchen.
>
No one is perfect in the kitchen. When I cook bacon I bake it, too.
Yep, some splatters. Anyone who *never* has to clean an oven doesn't
use it. I have heard of continuous clean ovens. 32 years later his is
still working? Or just rarely used? If you have to ask what kind of
food spatters, I'd guess the latter.

Jill

"Cheryl" > wrote in message
eb.com...
> On 11/6/2016 9:58 AM, Doris Night wrote:
>
>> My Whirlpool has a Steam-clean setting in addition to the self-clean
>> one. You pour a cup of water in the bottom, and it steams off the
>> dripped on stuff. I tried it last week and it works nicely.
>
> My GE has that too but I haven't tried it yet. Thanks for the reminder.
>
> --
> ღ.¸¸.œ«*¨`*œ¶
> Cheryl

My GE does too, I have tried it once and it worked fine.

Cheri

On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 6:39:15 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 9:46:02 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 1:01:50 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
> > > On 2016-11-08, Doris Night > wrote:
> > >
> > > > But it's still no excuse to skin a turkey.
> > >
> > > .....or use cornstarch in a gravy!
> >
> > Dogmatic much?
> >
> > I think I'll keep thickening gravy with cornstarch. I like
> > the results.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
>
> This is America ferchristsake! We can do whatever we want in whatever way we want. I use crushed corn chips as a thickener - you won't see any commies doing that!

Possibly in Central or South America. Not, you know, Fritos.

Cindy Hamilton

On 2016-11-08, U.S Janet B > wrote:
> On 8 Nov 2016 18:00:20 GMT, notbob > wrote:
>
>>On 2016-11-08, Doris Night > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> juices are poured into a (too small) saucepan, and thickened with
>>> cornstarch.
>>
>>The only thing I thicken with cornstarch is pies and Chinese food.
>>Gravy is made with flour.
>>
>>nb
>
>
> Pie Filling Thickeners
> All-purpose flour produces a somewhat cloudy filling; you'll use more
> of it than you would higher-starch thickeners. Learn more ?
> *Quick-cooking tapioca makes filling bright and clear, but also gives
> it a stippled (and for some, "gluey") texture. Filling mixed with
> tapioca needs to rest 15 to 30 minutes before baking, for the tapioca
> to soften.
> *Instant ClearJel keeps fillings thick through a great range of
> temperatures, making it ideal for pies that are frozen, before or
> after baking. Learn more ?
> *Pie Filling Enhancer thickens fruit pie fillings the same way Instant
> ClearJel does. Its advantage is added ascorbic acid (a flavor
> enhancer), and superfine sugar, which prevents it from clumping. Pie
> Filling Enhancer is about half sugar; so you'll want to reduce the
> sugar in your recipe as directed below. Learn more ?
> *Cornstarch has thickening power similar to that of Instant ClearJel.
> Like flour, it lends a cloudy, semi-transparent look to filling. It
> can also give filling a chalky or floury taste. For full
> effectiveness, make sure the pie filling is bubbling up through the
> crust before removing your pie from the oven.
> From King Arthur
>
> Gravy is thickened with either cornstarch or flour depending upon your
> preference. Both methods are equally acceptable and produce two
> different results.
>
> Janet US