Not a potluck, of course.

I generally agree with the columnist, but I do think it's only fair and normal for a guest to expect at least ONE non-meat dish, even if it's just salad. (Though if the host is only in the habit of cooking carnivore-style meals, it might be better just to decline the invitation - but the host makes it clear there are all kinds of dishes.) Besides, I have NEVER heard that the rule of "eating what you're served" means having to eat, say, steak (as opposed to something with bouillon) when you don't eat meat. The author would certainly not suggest that guests should violate their own religious dietary principles - what's the difference?

Also, if he were the host and had brand-new guests (not the case here), I think it would only makes sense for him to ASK in advance what the guests don't eat, for any reason, if only to avoid any health problems. I wonder why this hasn't always been the rule for hosts - food allergies may be more common now, but haven't they always existed?

On the flip side, Miss Manners once told a meat-eating guest that no, it is not rude for a vegetarian host to serve only vegetables and that at such a dinner, you'd wouldn't be eating anything unusual anyway.

http://www.gastongazette.com/enterta...k-holiday-host


Q: My husband and I are looking forward to hosting our children and grandchildren over the Holidays€”or were. We were recently informed that our 30-something daughter and two of her children have decided to go completely €œvegan€� and gluten-free and will only eat food that is devoid of any and all animal and wheat products. I have always cooked for omnivores. Now Im informed that I must prepare one meal for 10 people and another entirely separate meal for three people. Furthermore, my daughter has informed me that should I regard cooking two meals as a hassle, they will bring their own food. Am I right in thinking that theres something very self-centered about telling someone they must cooperate in your dietary choices or you will bring your own food? If so, what is your advice?

A: Your assessment of this situation is right on target. But you need to understand €” if you dont already €” that teaching proper manners to children is no longer the norm. Putting consideration of others before consideration of ones self began to go down the child-rearing drain in the 1970s. Even if you raised your daughter to know better, the culture now exerts more influence upon her than her upbringing.

It is inconsiderate to expect ones host to cooperate in dietary preferences that are just that €” preferences. Its one thing if eating vegan and/or gluten-free is a medical necessity. But if the person in question is not going to break out in a pox, go into convulsions or die if he eats something containing meat, milk, butter, cheese, or wheat, then said person ought to take a diet holiday when he/she is a guest in someone elses home. And that includes bringing ones own food€”in this case, refusing to participate in a special, once-a-year meal that you have taken some pains to prepare.

There is a distinct whiff of narcissism to this. But keep in mind that youre dealing with Generation Entitlement. If informed that expecting you to cater to arbitrary food €œissues€� is inconsiderate, the strong likelihood is that you will be told in one way or another that you are unreasonable, rigid, uncompromising, and worse. In other words, you will become the bad actor. Furthermore, the very persons who need to re-evaluate their behavior will see no need to do so and, in fact, will probably pump themselves up with a surfeit of self-righteousness.

When they were living under our roof, my wife and I told our children that a guest in someones home eats what the host prepares, even if the guest doesnt really care for the food in question. To do otherwise is rude. If a guest has a medical issue that requires certain dietary considerations, said guest is obligated to inform the host well in advance so that an accommodation can be made without haste. But that was then, and this is now, and now is all about individuality.

So, the choice you face is one of simply rolling with this peccadillo or making an issue of it. I advise you to just roll with it. Tell your daughter youd be forever grateful if shed bring the necessary food.. Oh, and tell them to bring their own stove and oven while theyre at it.

Just kidding, of course €” in the spirit of the Holidays.

(end)



Lenona.

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 12:40:35 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Not a potluck, of course.
>
> I generally agree with the columnist, but I do think it's only fair and normal for a guest to expect at least ONE non-meat dish, even if it's just salad. (Though if the host is only in the habit of cooking carnivore-style meals, it might be better just to decline the invitation - but the host makes it clear there are all kinds of dishes.) Besides, I have NEVER heard that the rule of "eating what you're served" means having to eat, say, steak (as opposed to something with bouillon) when you don't eat meat. The author would certainly not suggest that guests should violate their own religious dietary principles - what's the difference?
>
> Also, if he were the host and had brand-new guests (not the case here), I think it would only makes sense for him to ASK in advance what the guests don't eat, for any reason, if only to avoid any health problems. I wonder why this hasn't always been the rule for hosts - food allergies may be more common now, but haven't they always existed?
>
> On the flip side, Miss Manners once told a meat-eating guest that no, it is not rude for a vegetarian host to serve only vegetables and that at such a dinner, you'd wouldn't be eating anything unusual anyway.
>
> http://www.gastongazette.com/enterta...k-holiday-host
>
>
> Q: My husband and I are looking forward to hosting our children and grandchildren over the Holidays€”or were. We were recently informed that our 30-something daughter and two of her children have decided to go completely €œvegan€� and gluten-free and will only eat food that is devoid of any and all animal and wheat products. I have always cooked for omnivores. Now Im informed that I must prepare one meal for 10 people and another entirely separate meal for three people. Furthermore, my daughter has informed me that should I regard cooking two meals as a hassle, they will bring their own food. Am I right in thinking that theres something very self-centered about telling someone they must cooperate in your dietary choices or you will bring your own food? If so, what is your advice?
>
> A: Your assessment of this situation is right on target. But you need to understand €” if you dont already €” that teaching proper manners to children is no longer the norm. Putting consideration of others before consideration of ones self began to go down the child-rearing drain in the 1970s. Even if you raised your daughter to know better, the culture now exerts more influence upon her than her upbringing.
>
> It is inconsiderate to expect ones host to cooperate in dietary preferences that are just that €” preferences. Its one thing if eating vegan and/or gluten-free is a medical necessity. But if the person in question is not going to break out in a pox, go into convulsions or die if he eats something containing meat, milk, butter, cheese, or wheat, then said person ought to take a diet holiday when he/she is a guest in someone elses home. And that includes bringing ones own food€”in this case, refusing to participate in a special, once-a-year meal that you have taken some pains to prepare.
>
> There is a distinct whiff of narcissism to this. But keep in mind that youre dealing with Generation Entitlement. If informed that expecting you to cater to arbitrary food €œissues€� is inconsiderate, the strong likelihood is that you will be told in one way or another that you are unreasonable, rigid, uncompromising, and worse. In other words, you will become the bad actor. Furthermore, the very persons who need to re-evaluate their behavior will see no need to do so and, in fact, will probably pump themselves up with a surfeit of self-righteousness.
>
> When they were living under our roof, my wife and I told our children that a guest in someones home eats what the host prepares, even if the guest doesnt really care for the food in question. To do otherwise is rude. If a guest has a medical issue that requires certain dietary considerations, said guest is obligated to inform the host well in advance so that an accommodation can be made without haste. But that was then, and this is now, and now is all about individuality.
>
> So, the choice you face is one of simply rolling with this peccadillo or making an issue of it. I advise you to just roll with it. Tell your daughter youd be forever grateful if shed bring the necessary food. Oh, and tell them to bring their own stove and oven while theyre at it.
>
> Just kidding, of course €” in the spirit of the Holidays.
>
> (end)
>
>
>
> Lenona.

My take on the entire affair is that in this particular case
the "guest" is the "host's" daughter. Clearly the "host" did not
raise the "guest" properly. My mother would tell me to go to
hell if I tried to pull that garbage with her.

Cindy Hamilton

"Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
...

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 12:40:35 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Not a potluck, of course.
>
> I generally agree with the columnist, but I do think it's only fair and
> normal for a guest to expect at least ONE non-meat dish, even if it's just
> salad. (Though if the host is only in the habit of cooking carnivore-style
> meals, it might be better just to decline the invitation - but the host
> makes it clear there are all kinds of dishes.) Besides, I have NEVER heard
> that the rule of "eating what you're served" means having to eat, say,
> steak (as opposed to something with bouillon) when you don't eat meat. The
> author would certainly not suggest that guests should violate their own
> religious dietary principles - what's the difference?
>
> Also, if he were the host and had brand-new guests (not the case here), I
> think it would only makes sense for him to ASK in advance what the guests
> don't eat, for any reason, if only to avoid any health problems. I wonder
> why this hasn't always been the rule for hosts - food allergies may be
> more common now, but haven't they always existed?
>
> On the flip side, Miss Manners once told a meat-eating guest that no, it
> is not rude for a vegetarian host to serve only vegetables and that at
> such a dinner, you'd wouldn't be eating anything unusual anyway.
>
> http://www.gastongazette.com/enterta...k-holiday-host
>
>
> Q: My husband and I are looking forward to hosting our children and
> grandchildren over the Holidays€”or were. We were recently informed that
> our 30-something daughter and two of her children have decided to go
> completely €œvegan€� and gluten-free and will only eat food that is devoid
> of any and all animal and wheat products. I have always cooked for
> omnivores. Now Im informed that I must prepare one meal for 10 people and
> another entirely separate meal for three people. Furthermore, my daughter
> has informed me that should I regard cooking two meals as a hassle, they
> will bring their own food. Am I right in thinking that theres something
> very self-centered about telling someone they must cooperate in your
> dietary choices or you will bring your own food? If so, what is your
> advice?
>
> A: Your assessment of this situation is right on target. But you need to
> understand €” if you dont already €” that teaching proper manners to
> children is no longer the norm. Putting consideration of others before
> consideration of ones self began to go down the child-rearing drain in
> the 1970s. Even if you raised your daughter to know better, the culture
> now exerts more influence upon her than her upbringing.
>
> It is inconsiderate to expect ones host to cooperate in dietary
> preferences that are just that €” preferences. Its one thing if eating
> vegan and/or gluten-free is a medical necessity. But if the person in
> question is not going to break out in a pox, go into convulsions or die if
> he eats something containing meat, milk, butter, cheese, or wheat, then
> said person ought to take a diet holiday when he/she is a guest in someone
> elses home. And that includes bringing ones own food€”in this case,
> refusing to participate in a special, once-a-year meal that you have taken
> some pains to prepare.
>
> There is a distinct whiff of narcissism to this. But keep in mind that youre
> dealing with Generation Entitlement. If informed that expecting you to
> cater to arbitrary food €œissues€� is inconsiderate, the strong likelihood
> is that you will be told in one way or another that you are unreasonable,
> rigid, uncompromising, and worse. In other words, you will become the bad
> actor. Furthermore, the very persons who need to re-evaluate their
> behavior will see no need to do so and, in fact, will probably pump
> themselves up with a surfeit of self-righteousness.
>
> When they were living under our roof, my wife and I told our children that
> a guest in someones home eats what the host prepares, even if the guest
> doesnt really care for the food in question. To do otherwise is rude. If
> a guest has a medical issue that requires certain dietary considerations,
> said guest is obligated to inform the host well in advance so that an
> accommodation can be made without haste. But that was then, and this is
> now, and now is all about individuality.
>
> So, the choice you face is one of simply rolling with this peccadillo or
> making an issue of it. I advise you to just roll with it. Tell your
> daughter youd be forever grateful if shed bring the necessary food. Oh,
> and tell them to bring their own stove and oven while theyre at it.
>
> Just kidding, of course €” in the spirit of the Holidays.
>
> (end)
>
>
>
> Lenona.

My take on the entire affair is that in this particular case
the "guest" is the "host's" daughter. Clearly the "host" did not
raise the "guest" properly. My mother would tell me to go to
hell if I tried to pull that garbage with her.

Cindy Hamilton

==============

LOL ain't that the truth)

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 1:00:11 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> My take on the entire affair is that in this particular case
> the "guest" is the "host's" daughter. Clearly the "host" did not
> raise the "guest" properly. My mother would tell me to go to
> hell if I tried to pull that garbage with her.


So would mine. That is, she turned vegetarian in her later years, so she wasn't about to cook anything special for me when I visited that she wouldn't eat herself - and I wouldn't have dreamed of complaining in any way.

However, it's not fair to assume that the mother didn't do her best. Plenty of kids with good parents turn out to be awful anyway. As Rosemond said, it COULD be that "the culture now exerts more influence upon her than her upbringing." Or even if such a culture didn't exist, kids can still turn out to be horribly arrogant when their parents tried to raise them to put others first. (According to the columnist, the mistaken belief that parents are to blame for everything bad their kids do is why parents so often react angrily when some teacher or other adult comes to complain about the kids' behavior; a parent assumes that either the complaint is a lie or an attack on the PARENT, even if the adult doesn't directly blame the parent - and often, adults do that anyway.

wrote in message
...

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 1:00:11 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> My take on the entire affair is that in this particular case
> the "guest" is the "host's" daughter. Clearly the "host" did not
> raise the "guest" properly. My mother would tell me to go to
> hell if I tried to pull that garbage with her.


So would mine. That is, she turned vegetarian in her later years, so she
wasn't about to cook anything special for me when I visited that she
wouldn't eat herself - and I wouldn't have dreamed of complaining in any
way.

However, it's not fair to assume that the mother didn't do her best. Plenty
of kids with good parents turn out to be awful anyway. As Rosemond said, it
COULD be that "the culture now exerts more influence upon her than her
upbringing." Or even if such a culture didn't exist, kids can still turn out
to be horribly arrogant when their parents tried to raise them to put others
first. (According to the columnist, the mistaken belief that parents are to
blame for everything bad their kids do is why parents so often react angrily
when some teacher or other adult comes to complain about the kids' behavior;
a parent assumes that either the complaint is a lie or an attack on the
PARENT, even if the adult doesn't directly blame the parent - and often,
adults do that anyway.

==========

Good point!


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

"Cindy Hamilton" > wrote in message
news:b5d56b0f-e2a7-415e-aee7-

My take on the entire affair is that in this particular case
the "guest" is the "host's" daughter. Clearly the "host" did not
raise the "guest" properly. My mother would tell me to go to
hell if I tried to pull that garbage with her.

Cindy Hamilton

=======

Mine too, and she would probably follow it up with a small slap to the head.


Cher

On 2016-12-13 12:40 PM, wrote:
> Not a potluck, of course.
>
> I generally agree with the columnist, but I do think it's only fair
> and normal for a guest to expect at least ONE non-meat dish, even if
> it's just salad. (Though if the host is only in the habit of cooking
> carnivore-style meals, it might be better just to decline the
> invitation - but the host makes it clear there are all kinds of
> dishes.) Besides, I have NEVER heard that the rule of "eating what
> you're served" means having to eat, say, steak (as opposed to
> something with bouillon) when you don't eat meat.

I certainly heard that when I was younger and we all had a similar
background. It was always considered to be polite to eat what you had
been served. That was close to 60 years ago and no one in their right
mind was even vegetarian, never mind vegan.

> The author would
> certainly not suggest that guests should violate their own religious
> dietary principles - what's the difference?

I think the difference is a matter of catering to fad diets that
preclude the types of foods most people eat. If it is Christmas or
Easter and you are having family over you should be able to discount
religious issues.



> Also, if he were the host and had brand-new guests (not the case
> here), I think it would only makes sense for him to ASK in advance
> what the guests don't eat, for any reason, if only to avoid any
> health problems.

I suppose that can be done. If I knew in advance that someone had a lot
of restrictions I would likely not bother inviting them. We have
Christmas coming up. It is a traditional meal that usually involves
turkey with dressing and gravy, mashed potatoes, mince meat tarts,
Christmas pudding, shortbread. They aren't vegan and they are not gluten
free. However, there are often lots of other options.

I wrote before of a great niece who arrive unexpectedly as the rest of
the family was sitting down to eat at a Boxing Day gathering. My wife
had to scramble to find her something to suit her vegan diet. Even
salad was ruled out because even my wife's home made dressing was taboo
because there was a small amount of Worchesteshire sauce in it. Less
than two years later I was seated across from her at a buffet luncheon
and her plate was loaded with roast beef, ham, chicken, turkey, bacon,
cheese, shrimp, herring...


>I wonder why this hasn't always been the rule for
> hosts - food allergies may be more common now, but haven't they
> always existed?

If they have food allergies or sensitivities they can forgo the problem
foods.




> On the flip side, Miss Manners once told a meat-eating guest that no,
> it is not rude for a vegetarian host to serve only vegetables and
> that at such a dinner, you'd wouldn't be eating anything unusual
> anyway.

That ranks up there with only white people being able to be racist. It
is an issue in my brother's family. They have a son and DiL who are
vegetarian. When they come to visit the parents have to go and and get
special vegetarian foods for the kids. When they go to visit the kids
they are not even allowed to cook meat on the BBQ because the appliance
they use to grill their pretend meat products will be tainted with meat.
They end up going out for dinner and getting stuck with the bills.


>
>
>
> Q: My husband and I are looking forward to hosting our children and
> grandchildren over the Holidays€”or were. We were recently informed
> that our 30-something daughter and two of her children have decided
> to go completely €œvegan€� and gluten-free and will only eat food that
> is devoid of any and all animal and wheat products. I have always
> cooked for omnivores. Now Im informed that I must prepare one meal
> for 10 people and another entirely separate meal for three people.
> Furthermore, my daughter has informed me that should I regard cooking
> two meals as a hassle, they will bring their own food.

Well good damn. Yes.. It is a lot of hassle to cook one dinner for 10
people and a separate meal for three others.


> Am I right in
> thinking that theres something very self-centered about telling
> someone they must cooperate in your dietary choices or you will bring
> your own food? If so, what is your advice?

Self centered is what veganism is all about, and with the exception of
the few people who have real gluten issues, so is a gluten free diet.


> A: Your assessment of this situation is right on target. But you need
> to understand €” if you dont already €” that teaching proper manners
> to children is no longer the norm. Putting consideration of others
> before consideration of ones self began to go down the child-rearing
> drain in the 1970s. Even if you raised your daughter to know better,
> the culture now exerts more influence upon her than her upbringing.

Well, that is a crock. Everyone seems to think they had a right to be
offended these days. There is a big posh for inclusion and accommodation.

>
> It is inconsiderate to expect ones host to cooperate in dietary
> preferences that are just that €” preferences. Its one thing if
> eating vegan and/or gluten-free is a medical necessity. But if the
> person in question is not going to break out in a pox, go into
> convulsions or die if he eats something containing meat, milk,
> butter, cheese, or wheat, then said person ought to take a diet
> holiday when he/she is a guest in someone elses home. And that
> includes bringing ones own food€”in this case, refusing to
> participate in a special, once-a-year meal that you have taken some
> pains to prepare.


There are also cases of people being especially picky eaters. I have a
nephew like that and if I had my way he would never be invited for a
meal here. It is bad enough that they is almost nothing he will heat,
but he will whine about it too.... and he is in his 40s. He was hear for
Christmas a few years ago and the desserts were a collaborative effort
from me, my mother and his mother. We had home made mince meat tarts,
store bought mince meat. Dark fruitcake, light fruitcake, several
different types of shortbreads, date squares, brownies, Black Forest
Squares (brownies with cherries in them), butter tarts, Naniamo bars,
several other types of cookies and a fruit platter. He whined that there
was nothing he liked. More than a dozen things to choose from and there
was nothing he liked... and he whined about it. The next time we had to
include him in something he was told to bring something he liked.

On 12/13/2016 12:40 PM, wrote:
> Not a potluck, of course.
>
> I generally agree with the columnist, but I do think it's only fair and normal for a guest to expect at least ONE non-meat dish, even if it's just salad. (Though if the host is only in the habit of cooking carnivore-style meals, it might be better just to decline the invitation - but the host makes it clear there are all kinds of dishes.) Besides, I have NEVER heard that the rule of "eating what you're served" means having to eat, say, steak (as opposed to something with bouillon) when you don't eat meat. The author would certainly not suggest that guests should violate their own religious dietary principles - what's the difference?
>

When we have a vegetarian guest for dinner we will make a suitable meal.
No big deal.

End of the month we are going to have a vegan guest for a couple of
days. I'll point out where the jar of peanut butter is. This is a
former omnivore that recently converted so it should be fun. There will
be leftover Christmas ham frying for breakfast and he can have toast
with jelly.

We will be reasonably accommodating, but I'm not putting away the butter.

On 12/13/2016 8:06 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 12/13/2016 12:40 PM, wrote:
>> Not a potluck, of course.
>>
>> I generally agree with the columnist, but I do think it's only fair
>> and normal for a guest to expect at least ONE non-meat dish, even if
>> it's just salad. (Though if the host is only in the habit of cooking
>> carnivore-style meals, it might be better just to decline the
>> invitation - but the host makes it clear there are all kinds of
>> dishes.) Besides, I have NEVER heard that the rule of "eating what
>> you're served" means having to eat, say, steak (as opposed to
>> something with bouillon) when you don't eat meat. The author would
>> certainly not suggest that guests should violate their own religious
>> dietary principles - what's the difference?
>>
>
> When we have a vegetarian guest for dinner we will make a suitable meal.
> No big deal.
>
> End of the month we are going to have a vegan guest for a couple of
> days. I'll point out where the jar of peanut butter is. This is a
> former omnivore that recently converted so it should be fun. There will
> be leftover Christmas ham frying for breakfast and he can have toast
> with jelly.
>
> We will be reasonably accommodating, but I'm not putting away the butter.
>

<applause!>

Jill

wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Not a potluck, of course.
>
> I generally agree with the columnist, but I do think it's only fair
> and normal for a guest to expect at least ONE non-meat dish, even if
> it's just salad. (Though if the host is only in the habit of cooking
> carnivore-style meals, it might be better just to decline the
> invitation - but the host makes it clear there are all kinds of
> dishes.) Besides, I have NEVER heard that the rule of "eating what
> you're served" means having to eat, say, steak (as opposed to
> something with bouillon) when you don't eat meat. The author would
> certainly not suggest that guests should violate their own religious
> dietary principles - what's the difference?
>
> Also, if he were the host and had brand-new guests (not the case
> here), I think it would only makes sense for him to ASK in advance
> what the guests don't eat, for any reason, if only to avoid any
> health problems. I wonder why this hasn't always been the rule for
> hosts - food allergies may be more common now, but haven't they
> always existed?
>
> On the flip side, Miss Manners once told a meat-eating guest that no,
> it is not rude for a vegetarian host to serve only vegetables and
> that at such a dinner, you'd wouldn't be eating anything unusual
> anyway.
(snippies made)
>
>
> Lenona.

Hi back, it's totally reasonable to *ask* a guest if they have any
allergies, medical conditions, or other needs (such as religious) to
know if a dish has something they can't eat.

If it's reasonable, I will cater a few dishes to match and make sure
they make sense without the other dishes.

--

Ophelia wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 12:40:35 PM UTC-5,
> wrote:
> > Not a potluck, of course.
> >
> > I generally agree with the columnist, but I do think it's only fair
> > and normal for a guest to expect at least ONE non-meat dish, even
> > if it's just salad. (Though if the host is only in the habit of
> > cooking carnivore-style meals, it might be better just to decline
> > the invitation - but the host makes it clear there are all kinds
> > of dishes.) Besides, I have NEVER heard that the rule of "eating
> > what you're served" means having to eat, say, steak (as opposed to
> > something with bouillon) when you don't eat meat. The author would
> > certainly not suggest that guests should violate their own
> > religious dietary principles - what's the difference?
> >
> > Also, if he were the host and had brand-new guests (not the case
> > here), I think it would only makes sense for him to ASK in advance
> > what the guests don't eat, for any reason, if only to avoid any
> > health problems. I wonder why this hasn't always been the rule for
> > hosts - food allergies may be more common now, but haven't they
> > always existed?
> >
> > On the flip side, Miss Manners once told a meat-eating guest that
> > no, it is not rude for a vegetarian host to serve only vegetables
> > and that at such a dinner, you'd wouldn't be eating anything
> > unusual anyway.
> >
> > http://www.gastongazette.com/enterta...hn-rosemond-fo
> > od-issues-irk-holiday-host
> >
> >
> > Q: My husband and I are looking forward to hosting our children and
> > grandchildren over the Holidays€”or were. We were recently
> > informed that our 30-something daughter and two of her children
> > have decided to go completely €œvegan€� and gluten-free and will
> > only eat food that is devoid of any and all animal and wheat
> > products. I have always cooked for omnivores. Now Im informed
> > that I must prepare one meal for 10 people and another entirely
> > separate meal for three people. Furthermore, my daughter has
> > informed me that should I regard cooking two meals as a hassle,
> > they will bring their own food. Am I right in thinking that
> > theres something very self-centered about telling someone they
> > must cooperate in your dietary choices or you will bring your own
> > food? If so, what is your advice?
> >
> > A: Your assessment of this situation is right on target. But you
> > need to understand €” if you dont already €” that teaching
> > proper manners to children is no longer the norm. Putting
> > consideration of others before consideration of ones self began
> > to go down the child-rearing drain in the 1970s. Even if you
> > raised your daughter to know better, the culture now exerts more
> > influence upon her than her upbringing.
> >
> > It is inconsiderate to expect ones host to cooperate in dietary
> > preferences that are just that €” preferences. Its one thing if
> > eating vegan and/or gluten-free is a medical necessity. But if the
> > person in question is not going to break out in a pox, go into
> > convulsions or die if he eats something containing meat, milk,
> > butter, cheese, or wheat, then said person ought to take a diet
> > holiday when he/she is a guest in someone elses home. And that
> > includes bringing ones own food€”in this case, refusing to
> > participate in a special, once-a-year meal that you have taken
> > some pains to prepare.
> >
> > There is a distinct whiff of narcissism to this. But keep in mind
> > that youre dealing with Generation Entitlement. If informed
> > that expecting you to cater to arbitrary food €œissues€� is
> > inconsiderate, the strong likelihood is that you will be told in
> > one way or another that you are unreasonable, rigid,
> > uncompromising, and worse. In other words, you will become the bad
> > actor. Furthermore, the very persons who need to re-evaluate their
> > behavior will see no need to do so and, in fact, will probably pump
> > themselves up with a surfeit of self-righteousness.
> >
> > When they were living under our roof, my wife and I told our
> > children that a guest in someones home eats what the host
> > prepares, even if the guest doesnt really care for the food in
> > question. To do otherwise is rude. If a guest has a medical issue
> > that requires certain dietary considerations, said guest is
> > obligated to inform the host well in advance so that an
> > accommodation can be made without haste. But that was then, and
> > this is now, and now is all about individuality.
> >
> > So, the choice you face is one of simply rolling with this
> > peccadillo or making an issue of it. I advise you to just roll
> > with it. Tell your daughter youd be forever grateful if shed
> > bring the necessary food. Oh, and tell them to bring their own
> > stove and oven while theyre at it.
> >
> > Just kidding, of course €” in the spirit of the Holidays.
> >
> > (end)
> >
> >
> >
> > Lenona.
>
> My take on the entire affair is that in this particular case
> the "guest" is the "host's" daughter. Clearly the "host" did not
> raise the "guest" properly. My mother would tell me to go to
> hell if I tried to pull that garbage with her.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
> ==============
>
> LOL ain't that the truth)

LOL! My Mom would have gone 'ok, pick your choice of TV dinner from
the freezer'.

--

On 2016-12-13 8:06 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 12/13/2016 12:40 PM, wrote:
>> Not a potluck, of course.
>>
>> I generally agree with the columnist, but I do think it's only fair
>> and normal for a guest to expect at least ONE non-meat dish, even if
>> it's just salad. (Though if the host is only in the habit of cooking
>> carnivore-style meals, it might be better just to decline the
>> invitation - but the host makes it clear there are all kinds of
>> dishes.) Besides, I have NEVER heard that the rule of "eating what
>> you're served" means having to eat, say, steak (as opposed to
>> something with bouillon) when you don't eat meat. The author would
>> certainly not suggest that guests should violate their own religious
>> dietary principles - what's the difference?
>>
>
> When we have a vegetarian guest for dinner we will make a suitable meal.
> No big deal.

It becomes a bit of a deal when you are doing one dinner for 10 people
and are then expected to make a separate meal for three others.

>
> End of the month we are going to have a vegan guest for a couple of
> days. I'll point out where the jar of peanut butter is. This is a
> former omnivore that recently converted so it should be fun. There will
> be leftover Christmas ham frying for breakfast and he can have toast
> with jelly.
>
> We will be reasonably accommodating, but I'm not putting away the butter.
>

In article >,
says...
>
> My take on the entire affair is that in this particular case
> the "guest" is the "host's" daughter. Clearly the "host" did not
> raise the "guest" properly. My mother would tell me to go to
> hell if I tried to pull that garbage with her.
>
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree; attention seeking Mother
moans"Now I?m informed that I must prepare one meal for 10 people and
another entirely separate meal for three people." No need for that at
all.

She's surely preparing a range of vegetables and maybe salads for
the others; the vegans can eat the same veg and salads with suitable
dressings. She could make a vegan nutroast (the day before; or suggest
daughter brings it), and serve it to all as an alternative to turkey
stuffing.

For starters she can serve a vegetable soup ; for dessert, a
fruit salad or fresh pineapple; and make enough for other guests who
might prefer one or two lighter fresher healthy choices. None of it is
very difficult or complicated.

That way, everyone shares some of the vegans food and the vegans
are not completely excluded from the main menu

On 12/13/2016 8:54 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-12-13 8:06 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 12/13/2016 12:40 PM, wrote:
>>> Not a potluck, of course.
>>>
>>> I generally agree with the columnist, but I do think it's only fair
>>> and normal for a guest to expect at least ONE non-meat dish, even if
>>> it's just salad. (Though if the host is only in the habit of cooking
>>> carnivore-style meals, it might be better just to decline the
>>> invitation - but the host makes it clear there are all kinds of
>>> dishes.) Besides, I have NEVER heard that the rule of "eating what
>>> you're served" means having to eat, say, steak (as opposed to
>>> something with bouillon) when you don't eat meat. The author would
>>> certainly not suggest that guests should violate their own religious
>>> dietary principles - what's the difference?
>>>
>>
>> When we have a vegetarian guest for dinner we will make a suitable meal.
>> No big deal.
>
> It becomes a bit of a deal when you are doing one dinner for 10 people
> and are then expected to make a separate meal for three others.
>


Depends. Vegan is tougher than vegetarian. In any case, if we are
having a roast there are plenty of side to eat, but they would not be
vegan friendly. We do have peanut butter though.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 09:40:33 -0800 (PST), wrote:

> Now I’m informed that I must prepare one meal for 10 people and another entirely separate meal for three people. Furthermore, my daughter has informed me that should I regard cooking two meals as a hassle, they will bring their own food. Am I right in thinking that there’s something very self-centered about telling someone they must cooperate in your dietary choices or you will bring your own food? If so, what is your advice?

Another mountain out of a mole hill.

All that person needs to do is say "yes, bring your own food and you
can cook it too". It's her daughter, not some stranger. She offered,
let her do it. If she's not going to bend her rules for the sake of
harmony at the dinner table when it's a lifestyle choice, not dictated
by health, then her daughter needs to shoulder the meal responsibility
for herself and the vegan grandchildren.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 23:44:29 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On 12/13/2016 8:54 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> > On 2016-12-13 8:06 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> On 12/13/2016 12:40 PM, wrote:
> >>> Not a potluck, of course.
> >>>
> >>> I generally agree with the columnist, but I do think it's only fair
> >>> and normal for a guest to expect at least ONE non-meat dish, even if
> >>> it's just salad. (Though if the host is only in the habit of cooking
> >>> carnivore-style meals, it might be better just to decline the
> >>> invitation - but the host makes it clear there are all kinds of
> >>> dishes.) Besides, I have NEVER heard that the rule of "eating what
> >>> you're served" means having to eat, say, steak (as opposed to
> >>> something with bouillon) when you don't eat meat. The author would
> >>> certainly not suggest that guests should violate their own religious
> >>> dietary principles - what's the difference?
> >>>
> >>
> >> When we have a vegetarian guest for dinner we will make a suitable meal.
> >> No big deal.
> >
> > It becomes a bit of a deal when you are doing one dinner for 10 people
> > and are then expected to make a separate meal for three others.
> >
>
>
> Depends. Vegan is tougher than vegetarian. In any case, if we are
> having a roast there are plenty of side to eat, but they would not be
> vegan friendly. We do have peanut butter though.

Imagine needing to cook gluten free vegan (plus meat). It's not a
conviction, it's a health issue and the person is so sensitive that
cross contamination is a real thing with real consequences.


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ...

On 12/13/2016 8:54 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-12-13 8:06 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 12/13/2016 12:40 PM, wrote:
>>> Not a potluck, of course.
>>>
>>> I generally agree with the columnist, but I do think it's only fair
>>> and normal for a guest to expect at least ONE non-meat dish, even if
>>> it's just salad. (Though if the host is only in the habit of cooking
>>> carnivore-style meals, it might be better just to decline the
>>> invitation - but the host makes it clear there are all kinds of
>>> dishes.) Besides, I have NEVER heard that the rule of "eating what
>>> you're served" means having to eat, say, steak (as opposed to
>>> something with bouillon) when you don't eat meat. The author would
>>> certainly not suggest that guests should violate their own religious
>>> dietary principles - what's the difference?
>>>
>>
>> When we have a vegetarian guest for dinner we will make a suitable meal.
>> No big deal.
>
> It becomes a bit of a deal when you are doing one dinner for 10 people
> and are then expected to make a separate meal for three others.
>


Depends. Vegan is tougher than vegetarian. In any case, if we are
having a roast there are plenty of side to eat, but they would not be
vegan friendly. We do have peanut butter though.

==================

Converts of any type are tough.



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

In article >, jmcquown says...
>
> On 12/13/2016 8:06 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 12/13/2016 12:40 PM, wrote:
> >> Not a potluck, of course.
> >>
> >> I generally agree with the columnist, but I do think it's only fair
> >> and normal for a guest to expect at least ONE non-meat dish, even if
> >> it's just salad. (Though if the host is only in the habit of cooking
> >> carnivore-style meals, it might be better just to decline the
> >> invitation - but the host makes it clear there are all kinds of
> >> dishes.) Besides, I have NEVER heard that the rule of "eating what
> >> you're served" means having to eat, say, steak (as opposed to
> >> something with bouillon) when you don't eat meat. The author would
> >> certainly not suggest that guests should violate their own religious
> >> dietary principles - what's the difference?
> >>
> >
> > When we have a vegetarian guest for dinner we will make a suitable meal.
> > No big deal.
> >
> > End of the month we are going to have a vegan guest for a couple of
> > days. I'll point out where the jar of peanut butter is. This is a
> > former omnivore that recently converted so it should be fun. There will
> > be leftover Christmas ham frying for breakfast and he can have toast
> > with jelly.
> >
> > We will be reasonably accommodating, but I'm not putting away the butter.
> >
>
> <applause!>

What's the big deal? Do you put away the wine when you have one guest
who doesn't drink?

In article > , Janet
says...
>
> The apple doesn't fall far from the tree; attention seeking
Mother
> moans"Now I?m informed that I must prepare one meal for 10 people and
> another entirely separate meal for three people." No need for that at
> all.
>
> She's surely preparing a range of vegetables and maybe salads for
> the others; the vegans can eat the same veg and salads with suitable
> dressings. She could make a vegan nutroast (the day before; or suggest
> daughter brings it), and serve it to all as an alternative to turkey
> stuffing.
>
> For starters she can serve a vegetable soup ; for dessert, a
> fruit salad or fresh pineapple; and make enough for other guests who
> might prefer one or two lighter fresher healthy choices. None of it is
> very difficult or complicated.
>
> That way, everyone shares some of the vegans food and the vegans
> are not completely excluded from the main menu

Perfect, except you don't leave any room for the meat eating host to
whine and bitch about their non meat eating guests. That's just not
fair.

In article >, sf says...
>
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 09:40:33 -0800 (PST), wrote:
>
> > Now I?m informed that I must prepare one meal for 10 people and another entirely separate meal for three people. Furthermore, my daughter has informed me that should I regard cooking two meals as a hassle, they will bring their own food. Am I right in thinking that there?s something very self-centered about telling someone they must cooperate in your dietary choices or you will bring your own food? If so, what is your advice?
>
> Another mountain out of a mole hill.
>
> All that person needs to do is say "yes, bring your own food and you
> can cook it too". It's her daughter, not some stranger. She offered,
> let her do it. If she's not going to bend her rules for the sake of
> harmony at the dinner table when it's a lifestyle choice, not dictated
> by health, then her daughter needs to shoulder the meal responsibility
> for herself and the vegan grandchildren.

I'd eat everything that was offered, except the meat. Nobody has died
yet from a meal consisting of carbs and vegetables.

On 2016-12-13 11:35 PM, Janet wrote:

> The apple doesn't fall far from the tree; attention seeking Mother
> moans"Now I?m informed that I must prepare one meal for 10 people and
> another entirely separate meal for three people." No need for that at
> all.
>
> She's surely preparing a range of vegetables and maybe salads for
> the others; the vegans can eat the same veg and salads with suitable
> dressings. She could make a vegan nutroast (the day before; or suggest
> daughter brings it), and serve it to all as an alternative to turkey
> stuffing.

If there is already a range of foods being served, those who are
vegetarian or vegan can eat those parts of it that fit in to the fad
diet of choice. The hostess may not know who to prepare vegan foods,
and may not have storage facilities for all that stuff. The vegans may
be like the food she chooses to try to make for them. Cooking for a
large group can be stressful enough for most people.



>
> For starters she can serve a vegetable soup ; for dessert, a
> fruit salad or fresh pineapple; and make enough for other guests who
> might prefer one or two lighter fresher healthy choices. None of it is
> very difficult or complicated.
>
> That way, everyone shares some of the vegans food and the vegans
> are not completely excluded from the main menu
>
Having once been surprised at the arrival of a vegan at a Christmas
function I know how difficult it can be to accommodate them.

On 2016-12-14 2:19 AM, sf wrote:

>> Depends. Vegan is tougher than vegetarian. In any case, if we are
>> having a roast there are plenty of side to eat, but they would not be
>> vegan friendly. We do have peanut butter though.
>
> Imagine needing to cook gluten free vegan (plus meat). It's not a
> conviction, it's a health issue and the person is so sensitive that
> cross contamination is a real thing with real consequences.
>

I am not going to say that there are people who have serious issues with
gluten. However, there are a lot of people who have adopted gluten free
diets that face no major problems because it is more of a fad diet for them.
One day I was in the corner bakery and enjoying my coffee while the
owner discussed a menu with another customer. She was having some family
together for a function and there were a number of people on special
diets. Some were vegetarian, some gluten free,some vegan and some with
lactose intolerance.

It should be no surprise that when there are so many people in a small
group that are on special diets that they were all young women. I have
issues with tolerance. I don't expect a host to make special meals for
me. I simply avoid the things that contain a lot of dairy. If something
has dairy but is really good I will go ahead and eat it and deal with
the discomfort.

In article > ,
lid says...
>
> In article > , Janet
> says...
> >
> > The apple doesn't fall far from the tree; attention seeking
> Mother
> > moans"Now I?m informed that I must prepare one meal for 10 people and
> > another entirely separate meal for three people." No need for that at
> > all.
> >
> > She's surely preparing a range of vegetables and maybe salads for
> > the others; the vegans can eat the same veg and salads with suitable
> > dressings. She could make a vegan nutroast (the day before; or suggest
> > daughter brings it), and serve it to all as an alternative to turkey
> > stuffing.
> >
> > For starters she can serve a vegetable soup ; for dessert, a
> > fruit salad or fresh pineapple; and make enough for other guests who
> > might prefer one or two lighter fresher healthy choices. None of it is
> > very difficult or complicated.
> >
> > That way, everyone shares some of the vegans food and the vegans
> > are not completely excluded from the main menu
>
> Perfect, except you don't leave any room for the meat eating host to
> whine and bitch about their non meat eating guests. That's just not
> fair.

TFB. I've got no time for professional martyrs who spend their
entire lives playing the victim card.

Janet UK

On 2016-12-14 9:59 AM, Janet wrote:
> In article > ,

>> Perfect, except you don't leave any room for the meat eating host to
>> whine and bitch about their non meat eating guests. That's just not
>> fair.
>
> TFB. I've got no time for professional martyrs who spend their
> entire lives playing the victim card.


Yet, we are expected to have time and energy to cater to the fad diets
of guests. I would be disappointed if I had gone to the expense and
effort to make a special meat dish and found out that one or more
guests won't eat it because they have adopted a weird diet. I am not
going to get all bent out of shape over them not eating the meat any
more than I would if they didn't eat nuts because of an issue, or
avoided a sweet dessert because they were diabetic. However, I am not
prepared to cater to fad diets like vegan. That is what BYOF is for.

Janet wrote:
>
> Perfect, except you don't leave any room for the meat eating host to
> whine and bitch about their non meat eating guests. That's just not
> fair.

With any veggies/vegans I'd hand them a basket and send them out to my
vegetable garden... or they can graze with the deer.

Ophelia wrote:
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ...
>
> On 12/13/2016 8:54 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> > On 2016-12-13 8:06 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> On 12/13/2016 12:40 PM, wrote:
> >>> Not a potluck, of course.
> >>>
> >>> I generally agree with the columnist, but I do think it's only fair
> >>> and normal for a guest to expect at least ONE non-meat dish, even if
> >>> it's just salad. (Though if the host is only in the habit of cooking
> >>> carnivore-style meals, it might be better just to decline the
> >>> invitation - but the host makes it clear there are all kinds of
> >>> dishes.) Besides, I have NEVER heard that the rule of "eating what
> >>> you're served" means having to eat, say, steak (as opposed to
> >>> something with bouillon) when you don't eat meat. The author would
> >>> certainly not suggest that guests should violate their own religious
> >>> dietary principles - what's the difference?
> >>>
> >>
> >> When we have a vegetarian guest for dinner we will make a suitable meal.
> >> No big deal.
> >
> > It becomes a bit of a deal when you are doing one dinner for 10 people
> > and are then expected to make a separate meal for three others.
> >
>
> Depends. Vegan is tougher than vegetarian. In any case, if we are
> having a roast there are plenty of side to eat, but they would not be
> vegan friendly. We do have peanut butter though.
>
> ==================
>
> Converts of any type are tough.

Not for me. If I invite you to my house, I'll tell you what I'm cooking.
If you don't like it, either bring along something else or stay home. My
house, my rules. No problems ever.

Holiday meals do NOT need to be stressful.

"Gary" wrote in message ...

Ophelia wrote:
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ...
>
> On 12/13/2016 8:54 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> > On 2016-12-13 8:06 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> On 12/13/2016 12:40 PM, wrote:
> >>> Not a potluck, of course.
> >>>
> >>> I generally agree with the columnist, but I do think it's only fair
> >>> and normal for a guest to expect at least ONE non-meat dish, even if
> >>> it's just salad. (Though if the host is only in the habit of cooking
> >>> carnivore-style meals, it might be better just to decline the
> >>> invitation - but the host makes it clear there are all kinds of
> >>> dishes.) Besides, I have NEVER heard that the rule of "eating what
> >>> you're served" means having to eat, say, steak (as opposed to
> >>> something with bouillon) when you don't eat meat. The author would
> >>> certainly not suggest that guests should violate their own religious
> >>> dietary principles - what's the difference?
> >>>
> >>
> >> When we have a vegetarian guest for dinner we will make a suitable
> >> meal.
> >> No big deal.
> >
> > It becomes a bit of a deal when you are doing one dinner for 10 people
> > and are then expected to make a separate meal for three others.
> >
>
> Depends. Vegan is tougher than vegetarian. In any case, if we are
> having a roast there are plenty of side to eat, but they would not be
> vegan friendly. We do have peanut butter though.
>
> ==================
>
> Converts of any type are tough.

Not for me. If I invite you to my house, I'll tell you what I'm cooking.
If you don't like it, either bring along something else or stay home. My
house, my rules. No problems ever.

Holiday meals do NOT need to be stressful.

=============

Attaboy)



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

In article >, gravesend10
@verizon.net says...
>
> Janet wrote:
> >
> > Perfect, except you don't leave any room for the meat eating host to
> > whine and bitch about their non meat eating guests. That's just not
> > fair.

I didn't write that

janet UK
>
> With any veggies/vegans I'd hand them a basket and send them out to my
> vegetable garden... or they can graze with the deer.

On 12/13/2016 11:44 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> Depends. Vegan is tougher than vegetarian. In any case, if we are
> having a roast there are plenty of side to eat, but they would not be
> vegan friendly. We do have peanut butter though.

I have one brother who's got so many dietary restrictions that I've
given up. He can't eat dairy, onions, garlic, paprika. I'm sure
there's more. Oh, chick peas will kill him, this I learned when
I tried bringing 3 bean salad that he could have.

At this point we just bring plain vegetable separated out from
whatever dish we're bringing to family dinners. Plain carrots,
green beans, potatoes, whatever.

Thing is, he doesn't ask anyone to change things for him. He finds
something to eat and his wife will bring pumpkin pie he can eat,
something like that. He doesn't make a big issue out of it.

nancy

Bruce wrote:
>
> What's the big deal? Do you put away the wine when you have one guest
> who doesn't drink?

In my case, it depends on the guest. I have 2 friends that are
recovering alcoholics. If one of them comes over, I'll hide the adult
beverages. Don't want to tempt them.

On 2016-12-14, Nancy Young > wrote:
> On 12/13/2016 11:44 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> Depends. Vegan is tougher than vegetarian. In any case, if we are
>> having a roast there are plenty of side to eat, but they would not be
>> vegan friendly. We do have peanut butter though.
>
> I have one brother who's got so many dietary restrictions that I've
> given up. He can't eat dairy, onions, garlic, paprika. I'm sure
> there's more. Oh, chick peas will kill him, this I learned when
> I tried bringing 3 bean salad that he could have.
>
> At this point we just bring plain vegetable separated out from
> whatever dish we're bringing to family dinners. Plain carrots,
> green beans, potatoes, whatever.
>
> Thing is, he doesn't ask anyone to change things for him. He finds
> something to eat and his wife will bring pumpkin pie he can eat,
> something like that. He doesn't make a big issue out of it.

Too bad we can't make the same claim for you.

nb

On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 12:43:05 -0500, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>On 12/13/2016 11:44 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> Depends. Vegan is tougher than vegetarian. In any case, if we are
>> having a roast there are plenty of side to eat, but they would not be
>> vegan friendly. We do have peanut butter though.
>
>I have one brother who's got so many dietary restrictions that I've
>given up. He can't eat dairy, onions, garlic, paprika. I'm sure
>there's more. Oh, chick peas will kill him, this I learned when
>I tried bringing 3 bean salad that he could have.
>
>At this point we just bring plain vegetable separated out from
>whatever dish we're bringing to family dinners. Plain carrots,
>green beans, potatoes, whatever.
>
>Thing is, he doesn't ask anyone to change things for him. He finds
>something to eat and his wife will bring pumpkin pie he can eat,
>something like that. He doesn't make a big issue out of it.
>
>nancy

For $3.75 you can buy him a bale of hay. LOL

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 9:40:35 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> Not a potluck, of course.
>
> I generally agree with the columnist, but I do think it's only fair and normal for a guest to expect at least ONE non-meat dish, even if it's just salad. (Though if the host is only in the habit of cooking carnivore-style meals, it might be better just to decline the invitation - but the host makes it clear there are all kinds of dishes.) Besides, I have NEVER heard that the rule of "eating what you're served" means having to eat, say, steak (as opposed to something with bouillon) when you don't eat meat. The author would certainly not suggest that guests should violate their own religious dietary principles - what's the difference?
>
> Also, if he were the host and had brand-new guests (not the case here), I think it would only makes sense for him to ASK in advance what the guests don't eat, for any reason, if only to avoid any health problems. I wonder why this hasn't always been the rule for hosts - food allergies may be more common now, but haven't they always existed?
>
> On the flip side, Miss Manners once told a meat-eating guest that no, it is not rude for a vegetarian host to serve only vegetables and that at such a dinner, you'd wouldn't be eating anything unusual anyway.
>
> http://www.gastongazette.com/enterta...k-holiday-host
>
>
> Q: My husband and I are looking forward to hosting our children and grandchildren over the Holidays€”or were. We were recently informed that our 30-something daughter and two of her children have decided to go completely €œvegan€� and gluten-free and will only eat food that is devoid of any and all animal and wheat products. I have always cooked for omnivores. Now Im informed that I must prepare one meal for 10 people and another entirely separate meal for three people. Furthermore, my daughter has informed me that should I regard cooking two meals as a hassle, they will bring their own food. Am I right in thinking that theres something very self-centered about telling someone they must cooperate in your dietary choices or you will bring your own food? If so, what is your advice?
>
> A: Your assessment of this situation is right on target. But you need to understand €” if you dont already €” that teaching proper manners to children is no longer the norm. Putting consideration of others before consideration of ones self began to go down the child-rearing drain in the 1970s. Even if you raised your daughter to know better, the culture now exerts more influence upon her than her upbringing.
>
> It is inconsiderate to expect ones host to cooperate in dietary preferences that are just that €” preferences. Its one thing if eating vegan and/or gluten-free is a medical necessity. But if the person in question is not going to break out in a pox, go into convulsions or die if he eats something containing meat, milk, butter, cheese, or wheat, then said person ought to take a diet holiday when he/she is a guest in someone elses home. And that includes bringing ones own food€”in this case, refusing to participate in a special, once-a-year meal that you have taken some pains to prepare.
>
> There is a distinct whiff of narcissism to this. But keep in mind that youre dealing with Generation Entitlement. If informed that expecting you to cater to arbitrary food €œissues€� is inconsiderate, the strong likelihood is that you will be told in one way or another that you are unreasonable, rigid, uncompromising, and worse. In other words, you will become the bad actor. Furthermore, the very persons who need to re-evaluate their behavior will see no need to do so and, in fact, will probably pump themselves up with a surfeit of self-righteousness.
>
> When they were living under our roof, my wife and I told our children that a guest in someones home eats what the host prepares, even if the guest doesnt really care for the food in question. To do otherwise is rude. If a guest has a medical issue that requires certain dietary considerations, said guest is obligated to inform the host well in advance so that an accommodation can be made without haste. But that was then, and this is now, and now is all about individuality.
>
> So, the choice you face is one of simply rolling with this peccadillo or making an issue of it. I advise you to just roll with it. Tell your daughter youd be forever grateful if shed bring the necessary food. Oh, and tell them to bring their own stove and oven while theyre at it.
>
> Just kidding, of course €” in the spirit of the Holidays.
>
> (end)
>
>
>
> Lenona.

I'm sorry but this is just an ego trip. If someone brings a dish I would put it among the others and thank them profusely.

In article >, Ophelia says...
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ...
>
> On 12/13/2016 8:54 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> > On 2016-12-13 8:06 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> >> When we have a vegetarian guest for dinner we will make a suitable
> >> meal.
> >> No big deal.
> >
> > It becomes a bit of a deal when you are doing one dinner for 10 people
> > and are then expected to make a separate meal for three others.
> >
>
>
> Depends. Vegan is tougher than vegetarian. In any case, if we are
> having a roast there are plenty of side to eat, but they would not be
> vegan friendly. We do have peanut butter though.
>
> ==================
>
> Converts of any type are tough.

Try to talk a meat eater out of eating meat. That's just as hard as
trying to make a vegan eat meat.

In article >, Gary says...
>
> Bruce wrote:
> >
> > What's the big deal? Do you put away the wine when you have one guest
> > who doesn't drink?
>
> In my case, it depends on the guest. I have 2 friends that are
> recovering alcoholics. If one of them comes over, I'll hide the adult
> beverages. Don't want to tempt them.

Yes, ok.

In article >, Dave Smith says...
>
> On 2016-12-14 9:59 AM, Janet wrote:
> > In article > ,
>
> >> Perfect, except you don't leave any room for the meat eating host to
> >> whine and bitch about their non meat eating guests. That's just not
> >> fair.
> >
> > TFB. I've got no time for professional martyrs who spend their
> > entire lives playing the victim card.
>
>
> Yet, we are expected to have time and energy to cater to the fad diets
> of guests. I would be disappointed if I had gone to the expense and
> effort to make a special meat dish and found out that one or more
> guests won't eat it because they have adopted a weird diet. I am not
> going to get all bent out of shape over them not eating the meat any
> more than I would if they didn't eat nuts because of an issue, or
> avoided a sweet dessert because they were diabetic. However, I am not
> prepared to cater to fad diets like vegan. That is what BYOF is for.

Are there any people you approve of who are not exactly like Dave Smith?

In article >, Brooklyn1
says...
>
> Janet wrote:
> >
> > Perfect, except you don't leave any room for the meat eating host to
> > whine and bitch about their non meat eating guests. That's just not
> > fair.
>
> With any veggies/vegans I'd hand them a basket and send them out to my
> vegetable garden... or they can graze with the deer.

And you send the meat eaters after the deer with a bow and arrow?

In article > , Janet
says...
>
> In article >, gravesend10
> @verizon.net says...
> >
> > Janet wrote:
> > >
> > > Perfect, except you don't leave any room for the meat eating host to
> > > whine and bitch about their non meat eating guests. That's just not
> > > fair.
>
> I didn't write that

You can take credit for it this once.

"Gary" > wrote in message ...

> Not for me. If I invite you to my house, I'll tell you what I'm cooking.
> If you don't like it, either bring along something else or stay home. My
> house, my rules. No problems ever.
>
> Holiday meals do NOT need to be stressful.

Thank you Gary, same with me, if they don't like my menu, invite me to their
home and showcase their talents, or just stay home.

Cheri

"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> Bruce wrote:
>>
>> What's the big deal? Do you put away the wine when you have one guest
>> who doesn't drink?
>
> In my case, it depends on the guest. I have 2 friends that are
> recovering alcoholics. If one of them comes over, I'll hide the adult
> beverages. Don't want to tempt them.

I see no need to do that at all, I quit smoking years ago, but I don't
expect smokers not to take a smoke break outside or hide their cigarettes
because it might tempt me, same thing with dieters, if you don't want it,
don't eat it, but don't blame me for ruining your diet. Impulse control is a
good thing.

Cheri