I do believe I've seen that in one or two houses - but only many years ago. Most people can't afford that much space in their homes, after all. (As mentioned below, one can use wall space to show off china.)

And I do think that there are typically plenty of clues as to where guests ARE expected to eat, so I don't quite get why they're sitting down at a table with no food nearby.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...=.024a3b247200



Q: Dear Miss Manners: I have a shared living room/dining space, and a separate breakfast table off my kitchen. However, my formal dining table is always set, but rarely used.

I was always taught to never seat yourselves at a formally set table if the meal is not being served there. Every Christmas, I elaborately decorate this table with fancy china, glassware and fragile decorations, only to have guests pull out a chair and put down their libations, keys, etc.

Is it proper for guests to sit there?


A: Are you under the impression that it is proper to set your table and then sneer at your guests for not realizing that you dont consider them important enough to sit there? What on earth is this display supposed to be for?

Now why they feel it necessary to put their keys on the table is another question. Miss Manners supposes that your inhospitable attitude is sufficiently apparent that they want to be able to make a quick getaway. Merry Christmas.



Some comments:


cococo
12/18/2016 7:42 AM EST
I never heard of keeping your dining room table set all the time.


Mr.Belvedere
12/18/2016 3:51 PM EST
Miss Manners mentioned this a few years ago. Apparently there's a subset of trashy bourgeoisie into it. She said if you were at someone's house and saw this, you should say, "Oh, I see you're expecting company, so I'll leave you to it."

Apparently there are still some people doing this still thing, and it was annoying MM enough to mention it, and its silliness, once again.


buffyj63
12/18/2016 7:47 AM EST
I've seen it done; some people like to display items instead of keeping them stored away. One of my previous bosses had a collection of glass she kept on the dining room table all the time; they ate their regular meals in the breakfast room.

Rhoanna
12/18/2016 10:27 AM EST
Aren't china cabinets for displaying your dishes (or at least some of them)? It also keeps them protected when not in use, unlike a table setting.



(end)



Lenona.

On 12/21/2016 4:17 PM, wrote:
>
> I do believe I've seen that in one or two houses - but only many years ago. Most people can't afford that much space in their homes, after all. (As mentioned below, one can use wall space to show off china.)
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...=.024a3b247200
>
> Q: Dear Miss Manners: I have a shared living room/dining space, and a separate breakfast table off my kitchen. However, my formal dining table is always set, but rarely used.
>
Are these real questions or just stuff Miss Manners makes up?

I have to wonder how long those table settings sit there, unused. No,
don't eat there! It's for show! How often does she wash & dust them?
Is she like Dickens' Miss Haversham, waiting for a bridegroom? Are there
cobwebs on the silver candelabras?

I have never seen a table set that way, untouched, other than in
museums/historic homes. IIRC Monticello. Mount Vernon. I saw those
places as a kid on school field trips. Of course those rooms were roped
off. Look, don't touch. Perhaps this woman should invest in some of
those velvet ropes. LOLOL

Jill

"jmcquown" wrote in message news
On 12/21/2016 4:17 PM, wrote:
>
> I do believe I've seen that in one or two houses - but only many years
> ago. Most people can't afford that much space in their homes, after all.
> (As mentioned below, one can use wall space to show off china.)
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...=.024a3b247200
>
> Q: Dear Miss Manners: I have a shared living room/dining space, and a
> separate breakfast table off my kitchen. However, my formal dining table
> is always set, but rarely used.
>
Are these real questions or just stuff Miss Manners makes up?

I have to wonder how long those table settings sit there, unused. No,
don't eat there! It's for show! How often does she wash & dust them?
Is she like Dickens' Miss Haversham, waiting for a bridegroom? Are there
cobwebs on the silver candelabras?

I have never seen a table set that way, untouched, other than in
museums/historic homes. IIRC Monticello. Mount Vernon. I saw those
places as a kid on school field trips. Of course those rooms were roped
off. Look, don't touch. Perhaps this woman should invest in some of
those velvet ropes. LOLOL

Jill

=================

LOL agreed. Maybe they think it makes them look grand)))



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 12/25/2016 6:22 PM, Ophelia wrote:
> "jmcquown" wrote in message news >
> On 12/21/2016 4:17 PM, wrote:
>>
>> I do believe I've seen that in one or two houses - but only many years
>> ago. Most people can't afford that much space in their homes, after all.
>> (As mentioned below, one can use wall space to show off china.)
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...=.024a3b247200
>>
>>
>> Q: Dear Miss Manners: I have a shared living room/dining space, and a
>> separate breakfast table off my kitchen. However, my formal dining table
>> is always set, but rarely used.
>>
> Are these real questions or just stuff Miss Manners makes up?
>
> I have to wonder how long those table settings sit there, unused. No,
> don't eat there! It's for show! How often does she wash & dust them?
> Is she like Dickens' Miss Haversham, waiting for a bridegroom? Are there
> cobwebs on the silver candelabras?
>
> I have never seen a table set that way, untouched, other than in
> museums/historic homes. IIRC Monticello. Mount Vernon. I saw those
> places as a kid on school field trips. Of course those rooms were roped
> off. Look, don't touch. Perhaps this woman should invest in some of
> those velvet ropes. LOLOL
>
> Jill
>
> =================
>
> LOL agreed. Maybe they think it makes them look grand)))
>
>
>
I think velvet ropes would make them look even more grand. That way no
one could get in to inspect the hallmarks on the place settings and the
silver. LOL

Jill

"jmcquown" wrote in message news
On 12/25/2016 6:22 PM, Ophelia wrote:
> "jmcquown" wrote in message news >
> On 12/21/2016 4:17 PM, wrote:
>>
>> I do believe I've seen that in one or two houses - but only many years
>> ago. Most people can't afford that much space in their homes, after all.
>> (As mentioned below, one can use wall space to show off china.)
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...=.024a3b247200
>>
>>
>> Q: Dear Miss Manners: I have a shared living room/dining space, and a
>> separate breakfast table off my kitchen. However, my formal dining table
>> is always set, but rarely used.
>>
> Are these real questions or just stuff Miss Manners makes up?
>
> I have to wonder how long those table settings sit there, unused. No,
> don't eat there! It's for show! How often does she wash & dust them?
> Is she like Dickens' Miss Haversham, waiting for a bridegroom? Are there
> cobwebs on the silver candelabras?
>
> I have never seen a table set that way, untouched, other than in
> museums/historic homes. IIRC Monticello. Mount Vernon. I saw those
> places as a kid on school field trips. Of course those rooms were roped
> off. Look, don't touch. Perhaps this woman should invest in some of
> those velvet ropes. LOLOL
>
> Jill
>
> =================
>
> LOL agreed. Maybe they think it makes them look grand)))
>
>
>
I think velvet ropes would make them look even more grand. That way no
one could get in to inspect the hallmarks on the place settings and the
silver. LOL

Jill
==

LOL now I wonder where I put my velvet ropes ... <g>

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 12/25/2016 6:09 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 12/21/2016 4:17 PM, wrote:

>> Q: Dear Miss Manners: I have a shared living room/dining space, and a
>> separate breakfast table off my kitchen. However, my formal dining
>> table is always set, but rarely used.
>>
> Are these real questions or just stuff Miss Manners makes up?

From my observation, none of these advice columnists need to make
stuff up.

Growing up, there were people who had elaborate living rooms and
kitchens that were never to be used except to show off. The real
living quarters were in the basement. I figure some having dining
room tables all set with the fine china wouldn't be a stretch.

> I have to wonder how long those table settings sit there, unused. No,
> don't eat there! It's for show! How often does she wash & dust them?
> Is she like Dickens' Miss Haversham, waiting for a bridegroom? Are there
> cobwebs on the silver candelabras?

It does seem outlandish. Then to write to an advice columnist
about it. The things people write to her, looking for support for
their point of view from an expert in manners. Kooky.

But amusing. She's made some funny comebacks.

nancy

"Nancy Young" wrote in message ...

On 12/25/2016 6:09 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 12/21/2016 4:17 PM, wrote:

>> Q: Dear Miss Manners: I have a shared living room/dining space, and a
>> separate breakfast table off my kitchen. However, my formal dining
>> table is always set, but rarely used.
>>
> Are these real questions or just stuff Miss Manners makes up?

From my observation, none of these advice columnists need to make
stuff up.

Growing up, there were people who had elaborate living rooms and
kitchens that were never to be used except to show off. The real
living quarters were in the basement. I figure some having dining
room tables all set with the fine china wouldn't be a stretch.

> I have to wonder how long those table settings sit there, unused. No,
> don't eat there! It's for show! How often does she wash & dust them?
> Is she like Dickens' Miss Haversham, waiting for a bridegroom? Are there
> cobwebs on the silver candelabras?

It does seem outlandish. Then to write to an advice columnist
about it. The things people write to her, looking for support for
their point of view from an expert in manners. Kooky.

But amusing. She's made some funny comebacks.

nancy

========================

I think that these days, if you are not one of the elite, it would be having
rather grandiose ideas above ones station dontcha think, Modom <g>

Now where did I put those ropes ...


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 12/26/2016 7:10 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> "Nancy Young" wrote in message ...

> Growing up, there were people who had elaborate living rooms and
> kitchens that were never to be used except to show off. The real
> living quarters were in the basement. I figure some having dining
> room tables all set with the fine china wouldn't be a stretch.

> I think that these days, if you are not one of the elite, it would be
> having rather grandiose ideas above ones station dontcha think, Modom <g>

I've known some rich people, I never did know them to keep a table set
permanently. So if they're putting on airs, they seem confused about
what is elite.

It just raises questions about dust, etc., as Jill said.

> Now where did I put those ropes ...

No ropes in my house, that's for sure. I'd be like the anti-fancy-
room-roper, don't anyone look into my ugly utility room.

nancy

On 12/26/2016 6:26 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 12/25/2016 6:09 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 12/21/2016 4:17 PM, wrote:
>
>>> Q: Dear Miss Manners: I have a shared living room/dining space, and a
>>> separate breakfast table off my kitchen. However, my formal dining
>>> table is always set, but rarely used.
>>>
>> Are these real questions or just stuff Miss Manners makes up?
>
> From my observation, none of these advice columnists need to make
> stuff up.
>
> Growing up, there were people who had elaborate living rooms and
> kitchens that were never to be used except to show off. The real
> living quarters were in the basement. I figure some having dining
> room tables all set with the fine china wouldn't be a stretch.
>
Yep, it's a stretch. Growing up, we always had a formal living room
which was only used for "company". No hanging out in that room,
nosiree! The dining room was also only used on special occasions; we
ate at the kitchen table except on holidays.

I actually *use* the living room in this house. My desk is in one
corner and there are cat toys all over the floor. Buffy lounges on
the furniture. My mother would be appalled if she could see the damage
to one of the Queen Anne style chairs caused by Buffy using it as a
scratching post. (She pretty much ignores her actual scratching posts.)
A neighbor gave me a 12" wide roll of double sided sticky tape, a big
roll of it, to deter the cat and protect the furniture. Great, now the
chair is covered in plastic sticky tape. Gee, that's attractive... LOL

>> I have to wonder how long those table settings sit there, unused. No,
>> don't eat there! It's for show! How often does she wash & dust them?
>> Is she like Dickens' Miss Haversham, waiting for a bridegroom? Are there
>> cobwebs on the silver candelabras?
>
> It does seem outlandish. Then to write to an advice columnist
> about it. The things people write to her, looking for support for
> their point of view from an expert in manners. Kooky.
>
> But amusing. She's made some funny comebacks.
>
> nancy

I find the topics amusing and her combacks are pretty funny. I still
say the woman needs to buy some velvet ropes to cordon off the area.
Look but don't touch!

Jill

"Nancy Young" wrote in message ...

On 12/26/2016 7:10 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> "Nancy Young" wrote in message ...

> Growing up, there were people who had elaborate living rooms and
> kitchens that were never to be used except to show off. The real
> living quarters were in the basement. I figure some having dining
> room tables all set with the fine china wouldn't be a stretch.

> I think that these days, if you are not one of the elite, it would be
> having rather grandiose ideas above ones station dontcha think, Modom <g>

I've known some rich people, I never did know them to keep a table set
permanently. So if they're putting on airs, they seem confused about
what is elite.

It just raises questions about dust, etc., as Jill said.

> Now where did I put those ropes ...

No ropes in my house, that's for sure. I'd be like the anti-fancy-
room-roper, don't anyone look into my ugly utility room.

nancy

===

<g> only if you don't look in mine ...

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

Nancy Young wrote:
>
> Growing up, there were people who had elaborate living rooms and
> kitchens that were never to be used except to show off. The real
> living quarters were in the basement. I figure some having dining
> room tables all set with the fine china wouldn't be a stretch.

I grew up in a "show house." The kitchen was fine and well used
but the living room, dining room, and library was off limits to
us kids unless company was over. I hated that.

I always said...when I grow up and become a parent, my kids
will be able to go in any room that they want. I stuck with
that too. Nothing was "off limits" to my girls.

I often work for more wealthy people now and I see many
"Show houses." Everything is perfect. Even magazines are
properly spaced on tables. I could never live like that.
It's almost like a museum and certainly not a lived in
home.

I've also done many kitchen makeovers and many are for
show and obviously not for cooking. sad.

Nancy Young wrote:
>
> I've known some rich people, I never did know them to keep a table set
> permanently. So if they're putting on airs, they seem confused about
> what is elite.
>
> It just raises questions about dust, etc., as Jill said.

The rich with the "show houses" all have maids that come in
two - 3 days a week. Everything is kept dusted. That said,
I've never seen a set table for show.

Funny too. The super rich from old money seem down to earth
and don't put on airs.

It's the newly rich that that seem to be the show offs.

Nancy Young wrote:
>
> No ropes in my house, that's for sure. I'd be like the anti-fancy-
> room-roper, don't anyone look into my ugly utility room.

I keep a rope across the outside of my front door.
"Don't knock, go away" it's supposed to tell people. heheheh

Old age quote:
"Middle age: when you're sitting at home on a Saturday night
and the phone rings and you hope it isn't for you."
- Ogden Nash

On 12/26/2016 9:15 AM, Gary wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>> I've known some rich people, I never did know them to keep a table set
>> permanently. So if they're putting on airs, they seem confused about
>> what is elite.
>>
>> It just raises questions about dust, etc., as Jill said.
>
> The rich with the "show houses" all have maids that come in
> two - 3 days a week. Everything is kept dusted. That said,
> I've never seen a set table for show.
>
> Funny too. The super rich from old money seem down to earth
> and don't put on airs.
>
> It's the newly rich that that seem to be the show offs.
>
The newly rich or the young wannabees. I've got lovely china but I
don't keep it set out on the table. Then again, I'm not rich.

Jill

On 12/26/2016 9:16 AM, Gary wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>> No ropes in my house, that's for sure. I'd be like the anti-fancy-
>> room-roper, don't anyone look into my ugly utility room.
>
> I keep a rope across the outside of my front door.
> "Don't knock, go away" it's supposed to tell people. heheheh
>
When Hurricane Matthew knocked out the power and later the phones I
walked up the street to assess the damage and to see if anyone was still
around. There was a sign right next to one front door that pretty much
stated "if we don't know you we will shoot you." Gee, thanks. I didn't
knock on that door. LOL

Jill

On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 8:33:03 AM UTC-5, Jill McQuown wrote:
> On 12/26/2016 6:26 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> > On 12/25/2016 6:09 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> >> On 12/21/2016 4:17 PM, wrote:
> >
> >>> Q: Dear Miss Manners: I have a shared living room/dining space, and a
> >>> separate breakfast table off my kitchen. However, my formal dining
> >>> table is always set, but rarely used.
> >>>
> >> Are these real questions or just stuff Miss Manners makes up?
> >
> > From my observation, none of these advice columnists need to make
> > stuff up.
> >
> > Growing up, there were people who had elaborate living rooms and
> > kitchens that were never to be used except to show off. The real
> > living quarters were in the basement. I figure some having dining
> > room tables all set with the fine china wouldn't be a stretch.
> >
> Yep, it's a stretch. Growing up, we always had a formal living room
> which was only used for "company". No hanging out in that room,
> nosiree! The dining room was also only used on special occasions; we
> ate at the kitchen table except on holidays.

Growing up, we never lived in a house that big. When I was small,
and we lived with my grandparents; my grandfather sat in the
living room in his undershirt to watch baseball on television.
We took all of our meals in the dining room, which was hardly
larger than a hallway between the living room and kitchen.

Now we still live in a small house, and our living is done in
the living room.

Cindy Hamilton

On 12/26/2016 9:30 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 8:33:03 AM UTC-5, Jill McQuown wrote:
>> On 12/26/2016 6:26 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>>> On 12/25/2016 6:09 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>> On 12/21/2016 4:17 PM, wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Q: Dear Miss Manners: I have a shared living room/dining space, and a
>>>>> separate breakfast table off my kitchen. However, my formal dining
>>>>> table is always set, but rarely used.
>>>>>
>>>> Are these real questions or just stuff Miss Manners makes up?
>>>
>>> From my observation, none of these advice columnists need to make
>>> stuff up.
>>>
>>> Growing up, there were people who had elaborate living rooms and
>>> kitchens that were never to be used except to show off. The real
>>> living quarters were in the basement. I figure some having dining
>>> room tables all set with the fine china wouldn't be a stretch.
>>>
>> Yep, it's a stretch. Growing up, we always had a formal living room
>> which was only used for "company". No hanging out in that room,
>> nosiree! The dining room was also only used on special occasions; we
>> ate at the kitchen table except on holidays.
>
> Growing up, we never lived in a house that big. When I was small,
> and we lived with my grandparents; my grandfather sat in the
> living room in his undershirt to watch baseball on television.
> We took all of our meals in the dining room, which was hardly
> larger than a hallway between the living room and kitchen.
>
> Now we still live in a small house, and our living is done in
> the living room.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
The houses when I grew up weren't big. But they were old. We moved a
lot, Dad was military. I lived in a lot of different houses. There was
often a separate living room/parlor. That's just the way some homes
were designed 50 years ago. <shrug>

Jill

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> Now we still live in a small house, and our living is done in
> the living room.

Hence the name. A living room was meant to be lived in. Now we have
dens, family rooms, great rooms, etc.

Now that I live alone, I often eat in my bedroom with the tv.
Oh the horrors!

On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 9:35:56 AM UTC-5, Jill McQuown wrote:
> On 12/26/2016 9:30 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 8:33:03 AM UTC-5, Jill McQuown wrote:
> >> On 12/26/2016 6:26 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> >>> On 12/25/2016 6:09 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> >>>> On 12/21/2016 4:17 PM, wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> Q: Dear Miss Manners: I have a shared living room/dining space, and a
> >>>>> separate breakfast table off my kitchen. However, my formal dining
> >>>>> table is always set, but rarely used.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Are these real questions or just stuff Miss Manners makes up?
> >>>
> >>> From my observation, none of these advice columnists need to make
> >>> stuff up.
> >>>
> >>> Growing up, there were people who had elaborate living rooms and
> >>> kitchens that were never to be used except to show off. The real
> >>> living quarters were in the basement. I figure some having dining
> >>> room tables all set with the fine china wouldn't be a stretch.
> >>>
> >> Yep, it's a stretch. Growing up, we always had a formal living room
> >> which was only used for "company". No hanging out in that room,
> >> nosiree! The dining room was also only used on special occasions; we
> >> ate at the kitchen table except on holidays.
> >
> > Growing up, we never lived in a house that big. When I was small,
> > and we lived with my grandparents; my grandfather sat in the
> > living room in his undershirt to watch baseball on television.
> > We took all of our meals in the dining room, which was hardly
> > larger than a hallway between the living room and kitchen.
> >
> > Now we still live in a small house, and our living is done in
> > the living room.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
> The houses when I grew up weren't big. But they were old. We moved a
> lot, Dad was military. I lived in a lot of different houses. There was
> often a separate living room/parlor. That's just the way some homes
> were designed 50 years ago. <shrug>
>
> Jill

Both of the houses I lived in growing up were what architects
have now labeled "American Small House". My grandparents' house
was built between the wars, and my mother's was built just after WWII.
<http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/portal/communities/pa-suburbs/files/georgia_american_small_house.pdf>

Cindy Hamilton

On 12/26/2016 10:03 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 9:35:56 AM UTC-5, Jill McQuown wrote:
>> On 12/26/2016 9:30 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 8:33:03 AM UTC-5, Jill McQuown wrote:
>>>> On 12/26/2016 6:26 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>>>>> On 12/25/2016 6:09 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/21/2016 4:17 PM, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Q: Dear Miss Manners: I have a shared living room/dining space, and a
>>>>>>> separate breakfast table off my kitchen. However, my formal dining
>>>>>>> table is always set, but rarely used.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are these real questions or just stuff Miss Manners makes up?
>>>>>
>>>>> From my observation, none of these advice columnists need to make
>>>>> stuff up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Growing up, there were people who had elaborate living rooms and
>>>>> kitchens that were never to be used except to show off. The real
>>>>> living quarters were in the basement. I figure some having dining
>>>>> room tables all set with the fine china wouldn't be a stretch.
>>>>>
>>>> Yep, it's a stretch. Growing up, we always had a formal living room
>>>> which was only used for "company". No hanging out in that room,
>>>> nosiree! The dining room was also only used on special occasions; we
>>>> ate at the kitchen table except on holidays.
>>>
>>> Growing up, we never lived in a house that big. When I was small,
>>> and we lived with my grandparents; my grandfather sat in the
>>> living room in his undershirt to watch baseball on television.
>>> We took all of our meals in the dining room, which was hardly
>>> larger than a hallway between the living room and kitchen.
>>>
>>> Now we still live in a small house, and our living is done in
>>> the living room.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>> The houses when I grew up weren't big. But they were old. We moved a
>> lot, Dad was military. I lived in a lot of different houses. There was
>> often a separate living room/parlor. That's just the way some homes
>> were designed 50 years ago. <shrug>
>>
>> Jill
>
> Both of the houses I lived in growing up were what architects
> have now labeled "American Small House". My grandparents' house
> was built between the wars, and my mother's was built just after WWII.
> <http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/portal/communities/pa-suburbs/files/georgia_american_small_house.pdf>
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

Never heard the term before, but I've seen thousands of houses in that
category. They used to be very popular as starter homes for young
couples as well as an easy to care for home for older couples. Seems
like everything built today is in the 2500 to 3500 sq. ft. range.

When we moved here 35 years ago it was a step up from our old house. My
intention was to move again in 5 to 7 years to a larger house.
Fortunately, we never did. This house is 2000 sq. ft. and is plenty to
take care of. I could lop off a couple of rooms and not miss them at
all. No, not going to move. We did some upgrading in the past few
years and want to enjoy it. In the past 6 years we spent almost as much
as we paid for the house in 1981. We did it to enjoy it, not for payback.

We replaced 9 windows and an 8' slider door in the family room. There
will be a payback from energy savings and I figure it is just about 220
years. The benefit though, is washing the windows from inside and not
outside painting. .

On 2016-12-26 8:32 AM, jmcquown wrote:

>> Growing up, there were people who had elaborate living rooms and
>> kitchens that were never to be used except to show off. The real
>> living quarters were in the basement. I figure some having dining
>> room tables all set with the fine china wouldn't be a stretch.
>>
> Yep, it's a stretch. Growing up, we always had a formal living room
> which was only used for "company". No hanging out in that room,
> nosiree! The dining room was also only used on special occasions; we
> ate at the kitchen table except on holidays.

When I was a kid we ate dinner in the living room every night. My mother
used her hand crocheted table cloth and lit candles every night. We used
to good china on Sundays.

"l not -l" wrote in message ...


On 26-Dec-2016, Gary > wrote:

> Nancy Young wrote:
> >
> > Growing up, there were people who had elaborate living rooms and
> > kitchens that were never to be used except to show off. The real
> > living quarters were in the basement. I figure some having dining
> > room tables all set with the fine china wouldn't be a stretch.
>
> I grew up in a "show house."
Long ago, I dated an girl of Italian heritage. The living room of her
family's home was for show, not use. The finest furniture, couch and chairs
upholstered in rich materials and, covered in clear plastic. The room was
off limits to adult and child alike; no chance of scuffing the hardwood
floors or "show" rugs.

Change Cujo to Juno for email.

==================

What a waste, but I do remember those times. For us the 'front' room was
for visitors and the 'kitchen' was the living room. The 'back' kitchen was
where all the cooking was done)

The 'front' room was not as you describe though. It was comfortable and
nice but not in the excessive way you describe.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

Gary wrote:
>Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>> No ropes in my house, that's for sure. I'd be like the anti-fancy-
>> room-roper, don't anyone look into my ugly utility room.
>
>I keep a rope across the outside of my front door.
>"Don't knock, go away" it's supposed to tell people. heheheh

Probably a schtinkin' schinny schtring... I got a heavy chain across
my driveway:
http://i66.tinypic.com/57nma.jpg

On 2016-12-26 12:51 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:

> Growing up in Brooklyn I knew several Italian families that actually
> did have velvet rops cordoning off their dining and living rooms, and
> thse were just regular working people. Guests were received in the
> basement where they did all entertaining and dining, there'd be a
> fully equiped kitchen in the basement, they never used the upstairs
> kitchen. I have to laugh when I remember their upstairs decor,
> Italian Renaissance, all that gold gilt, crystal prisms, extra plush
> carpet vacuumed in one direction, and plastic slip covers. I don't
> remember the dining table set but there'd be several ornate
> arrangements of plastic flowers. Some had a screened 3rd kitchen and
> dining area in their back yard for warm weather use. I wonder if
> that's still done.
>

This could be one of those cases where there is a good solid basis for
stereotypes. There are a lot of Italians around here and they may live
in the same old houses in the old neighbourhood, but when they work
their way up the start getting better furniture and an upgraded kitchen
that is not likely to be used. The cooking is done in the working
kitchen in the basement.

I have posted before about my neigbours. The next door neighbour is
Irish and his wife is Italian. Her parents bought the house on the other
side from ours. Entertaining was done in the family room, which was nice
and very comfortable. There was a more formal living room, but there no
one goes there. Unlike other Italian homes I had been in, they did not
have plastic covers on the cushions and lamp shades.

The first time we were there for dinner at the parents' place I was
concerned for their well being because they had disappeared for over an
hour while their daughter and son in law entertained us. It turned out
that they were down in the basement kitchen cooking up a storm.

The daughter is not like that. She has a nice kitchen and she actually
uses it.

On 12/26/2016 5:34 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-12-26 12:51 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>> Growing up in Brooklyn I knew several Italian families that actually
>> did have velvet rops cordoning off their dining and living rooms, and
>> thse were just regular working people. Guests were received in the
>> basement where they did all entertaining and dining, there'd be a
>> fully equiped kitchen in the basement, they never used the upstairs
>> kitchen.
(snippage)
>
> This could be one of those cases where there is a good solid basis for
> stereotypes. There are a lot of Italians around here and they may live
> in the same old houses in the old neighbourhood, but when they work
> their way up the start getting better furniture and an upgraded kitchen
> that is not likely to be used. The cooking is done in the working
> kitchen in the basement.
>
> I have posted before about my neigbours. The next door neighbour is
> Irish and his wife is Italian. Her parents bought the house on the other
> side from ours. Entertaining was done in the family room, which was nice
> and very comfortable. There was a more formal living room, but there no
> one goes there. Unlike other Italian homes I had been in, they did not
> have plastic covers on the cushions and lamp shades.
>
> The first time we were there for dinner at the parents' place I was
> concerned for their well being because they had disappeared for over an
> hour while their daughter and son in law entertained us. It turned out
> that they were down in the basement kitchen cooking up a storm.
>
> The daughter is not like that. She has a nice kitchen and she actually
> uses it.
>
>
One of my grandmothers (who was most definitely *not* Italian) had a
full kitchen in the basement. She did a lot of canning. Peaches,
pears, things like that. She also used the basement kitchen to cook
anything that might splatter or otherwise make a mess. The upstairs
kitchen was used but not nearly to the same extent as the kitchen in the
basement.

Jill

On 12/26/2016 10:03 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 9:35:56 AM UTC-5, Jill McQuown wrote:
>> On 12/26/2016 9:30 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 8:33:03 AM UTC-5, Jill McQuown wrote:
>>>> On 12/26/2016 6:26 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>>>>> On 12/25/2016 6:09 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/21/2016 4:17 PM, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Q: Dear Miss Manners: I have a shared living room/dining space, and a
>>>>>>> separate breakfast table off my kitchen. However, my formal dining
>>>>>>> table is always set, but rarely used.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are these real questions or just stuff Miss Manners makes up?
>>>>>
>>>>> From my observation, none of these advice columnists need to make
>>>>> stuff up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Growing up, there were people who had elaborate living rooms and
>>>>> kitchens that were never to be used except to show off. The real
>>>>> living quarters were in the basement. I figure some having dining
>>>>> room tables all set with the fine china wouldn't be a stretch.
>>>>>
>>>> Yep, it's a stretch. Growing up, we always had a formal living room
>>>> which was only used for "company". No hanging out in that room,
>>>> nosiree! The dining room was also only used on special occasions; we
>>>> ate at the kitchen table except on holidays.
>>>
>>> Growing up, we never lived in a house that big. When I was small,
>>> and we lived with my grandparents; my grandfather sat in the
>>> living room in his undershirt to watch baseball on television.
>>> We took all of our meals in the dining room, which was hardly
>>> larger than a hallway between the living room and kitchen.
>>>
>>> Now we still live in a small house, and our living is done in
>>> the living room.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>> The houses when I grew up weren't big. But they were old. We moved a
>> lot, Dad was military. I lived in a lot of different houses. There was
>> often a separate living room/parlor. That's just the way some homes
>> were designed 50 years ago. <shrug>
>>
>> Jill
>
> Both of the houses I lived in growing up were what architects
> have now labeled "American Small House". My grandparents' house
> was built between the wars, and my mother's was built just after WWII.
> <http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/portal/communities/pa-suburbs/files/georgia_american_small_house.pdf>
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
I love those types of houses. I see a lot of them around here (not
talking about Dataw, just the general area).

Jill

On 12/26/2016 10:25 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 12/26/2016 10:03 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 9:35:56 AM UTC-5, Jill McQuown wrote:
>>> On 12/26/2016 9:30 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>> On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 8:33:03 AM UTC-5, Jill McQuown wrote:
>>>>> On 12/26/2016 6:26 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/25/2016 6:09 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/21/2016 4:17 PM, wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Q: Dear Miss Manners: I have a shared living room/dining space,
>>>>>>>> and a
>>>>>>>> separate breakfast table off my kitchen. However, my formal dining
>>>>>>>> table is always set, but rarely used.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are these real questions or just stuff Miss Manners makes up?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From my observation, none of these advice columnists need to make
>>>>>> stuff up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Growing up, there were people who had elaborate living rooms and
>>>>>> kitchens that were never to be used except to show off. The real
>>>>>> living quarters were in the basement. I figure some having dining
>>>>>> room tables all set with the fine china wouldn't be a stretch.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yep, it's a stretch. Growing up, we always had a formal living room
>>>>> which was only used for "company". No hanging out in that room,
>>>>> nosiree! The dining room was also only used on special occasions; we
>>>>> ate at the kitchen table except on holidays.
>>>>
>>>> Growing up, we never lived in a house that big. When I was small,
>>>> and we lived with my grandparents; my grandfather sat in the
>>>> living room in his undershirt to watch baseball on television.
>>>> We took all of our meals in the dining room, which was hardly
>>>> larger than a hallway between the living room and kitchen.
>>>>
>>>> Now we still live in a small house, and our living is done in
>>>> the living room.
>>>>
>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>
>>> The houses when I grew up weren't big. But they were old. We moved a
>>> lot, Dad was military. I lived in a lot of different houses. There was
>>> often a separate living room/parlor. That's just the way some homes
>>> were designed 50 years ago. <shrug>
>>>
>>> Jill
>>
>> Both of the houses I lived in growing up were what architects
>> have now labeled "American Small House". My grandparents' house
>> was built between the wars, and my mother's was built just after WWII.
>> <http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/portal/communities/pa-suburbs/files/georgia_american_small_house.pdf>
>>
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>
> Never heard the term before, but I've seen thousands of houses in that
> category. They used to be very popular as starter homes for young
> couples as well as an easy to care for home for older couples. Seems
> like everything built today is in the 2500 to 3500 sq. ft. range.
>
Yeah, and I don't understand that. You'd think as people get older
they'd want less space to maintain/clean. My parents downsized when
they built this house and it's still too big (1743 sq. ft). I wouldn't
mind a 2 bedroom house at all, but that doesn't seem to be what people
are looking for.

> When we moved here 35 years ago it was a step up from our old house. My
> intention was to move again in 5 to 7 years to a larger house.
> Fortunately, we never did. This house is 2000 sq. ft. and is plenty to
> take care of. I could lop off a couple of rooms and not miss them at
> all. No, not going to move.

I hear ya!

> We did some upgrading in the past few
> years and want to enjoy it. In the past 6 years we spent almost as much
> as we paid for the house in 1981. We did it to enjoy it, not for payback.
>
> We replaced 9 windows and an 8' slider door in the family room. There
> will be a payback from energy savings and I figure it is just about 220
> years. The benefit though, is washing the windows from inside and not
> outside painting. .

My biggest complaint is probably washing the windows. There's too much
glass in this house. I love all the light but it's a lot to keep clean.
I bought one of those Windex extension wand window washing kits. The
screens on the inside of the casement windows cannot be removed due to
the security alarm sensors. I have to crank them open and go outside to
wash the inside of the windows. That's a PITA.

Jill

On 2016-12-26 7:09 PM, jmcquown wrote:

> My biggest complaint is probably washing the windows. There's too much
> glass in this house. I love all the light but it's a lot to keep clean.
> I bought one of those Windex extension wand window washing kits. The
> screens on the inside of the casement windows cannot be removed due to
> the security alarm sensors. I have to crank them open and go outside to
> wash the inside of the windows. That's a PITA.
>

It's nice to have a lot of windows. Windows can really brighten up a
house. However, they can are poorly insulated and lose a lot of heat. On
the flip side, they allow a lot of heat into the house. Nice, clean
windows look great, but when they get dirty thy are hard to ignore. It
may not seem a big deal to clean windows but it is hardly gratifying to
spend the best part of a day cleaning windows and then realizing that
most of them are all streaky.

On 12/26/2016 7:17 PM, Dave Smith wrote:

>
> It's nice to have a lot of windows. Windows can really brighten up a
> house. However, they can are poorly insulated and lose a lot of heat. On
> the flip side, they allow a lot of heat into the house. Nice, clean
> windows look great, but when they get dirty thy are hard to ignore. It
> may not seem a big deal to clean windows but it is hardly gratifying to
> spend the best part of a day cleaning windows and then realizing that
> most of them are all streaky.

Washing windows is one reason we just had some replaced. The new ones
tilt in and can be washed from inside, no ladder needed. Insulating
glass also eliminates the storm windows so half the glass surface to
clean. No painting too!

Dave Smith wrote:
>jmcquown wrote:
>
>> My biggest complaint is probably washing the windows. There's too much
>> glass in this house. I love all the light but it's a lot to keep clean.
>> I bought one of those Windex extension wand window washing kits. The
>> screens on the inside of the casement windows cannot be removed due to
>> the security alarm sensors. I have to crank them open and go outside to
>> wash the inside of the windows. That's a PITA.
>>
>
>It's nice to have a lot of windows. Windows can really brighten up a
>house. However, they can are poorly insulated and lose a lot of heat. On
>the flip side, they allow a lot of heat into the house. Nice, clean
>windows look great, but when they get dirty thy are hard to ignore. It
>may not seem a big deal to clean windows but it is hardly gratifying to
>spend the best part of a day cleaning windows and then realizing that
>most of them are all streaky.

I wash the outside of the windows with my electric pressure washer
using low power, works great and practically no work at all... I wash
the entire exterior of the house with the pressure washer. There's a
switch on the wand to turn off the cleaning compound fluid for rinsing
with plain water, the windows come sparkling clean... I don't need a
ladder either, I bought the extention kit, great for cleaning the
gutters from the ground. The only drawback to using a power washer
above your head is you will get wet, so I choose a warm summer day.
I like the electric power washer, it's not as powerful as a gasolene
model but it costs a lot less (about $100), needs no tune ups or fuel,
and not so powerful that it destroys stuff. Just plug it in and it
works... has more power than the typical homeowner needs.

I'd think large glass prisms in a sunny window would cast nice colors into the room

On 12/26/2016 3:34 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2016-12-26 12:51 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> Nancy Young wrote:
>
>> Growing up in Brooklyn I knew several Italian families that actually
>> did have velvet rops cordoning off their dining and living rooms, and
>> thse were just regular working people. Guests were received in the
>> basement where they did all entertaining and dining, there'd be a
>> fully equiped kitchen in the basement, they never used the upstairs
>> kitchen. I have to laugh when I remember their upstairs decor,
>> Italian Renaissance, all that gold gilt, crystal prisms, extra plush
>> carpet vacuumed in one direction, and plastic slip covers. I don't
>> remember the dining table set but there'd be several ornate
>> arrangements of plastic flowers. Some had a screened 3rd kitchen and
>> dining area in their back yard for warm weather use. I wonder if
>> that's still done.
>>
>
> This could be one of those cases where there is a good solid basis for
> stereotypes. There are a lot of Italians around here and they may live
> in the same old houses in the old neighbourhood, but when they work
> their way up the start getting better furniture and an upgraded kitchen
> that is not likely to be used. The cooking is done in the working
> kitchen in the basement.
>
> I have posted before about my neigbours. The next door neighbour is
> Irish and his wife is Italian. Her parents bought the house on the other
> side from ours. Entertaining was done in the family room, which was nice
> and very comfortable. There was a more formal living room, but there no
> one goes there. Unlike other Italian homes I had been in, they did not
> have plastic covers on the cushions and lamp shades.
>
> The first time we were there for dinner at the parents' place I was
> concerned for their well being because they had disappeared for over an
> hour while their daughter and son in law entertained us. It turned out
> that they were down in the basement kitchen cooking up a storm.
>
> The daughter is not like that. She has a nice kitchen and she actually
> uses it.
>
>
Apparently, there is a house in Canmore, Alberta, with a normal family
kitchen on the main floor and another in the walk out basement that is
devoted to baking. The latter has a large, maple top for kneading bread
dough as well as a marble topped area for pastry. The owner ran a
bakery-café so needed somewhere to experiment.
When I read about it, I was immediately jealous.

On 12/26/2016 6:08 PM, wrote:
> I'd think large glass prisms in a sunny window would cast nice colors into the room
>
Only if your name is Isaac!

On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 7:08:39 PM UTC-6, wrote:
>
> I'd think large glass prisms in a sunny window would cast nice colors into the room
>
>
Have you ever seen the Disney movie "Pollyanna" with Hailey
Mills?

In article >,
says...
>
> On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 7:08:39 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> >
> > I'd think large glass prisms in a sunny window would cast nice colors into the room
> >
> >
> Have you ever seen the Disney movie "Pollyanna" with Hailey
> Mills?

Yes; and I decided there and then that when I had a home it would have
prisms hanging in the windows. Which I do. Babies and cats are enchanted
by the dancing rainbows/


Janet UK

Cats can't see colors. Where would you buy a prism?

In article >,
says...
>
> Cats can't see colors.

But they can see (and chase) a dancing light bouncing around the room

> Where would you buy a prism?

When I started buying them in the 1970's, I could find them in junk
shops for pennies; as the surviving parts bits of old crystal
chandeliers that had broeken and been taken apart.

New prisms are available from Swarovski Crystal. I don't think they
match the quality and cut facets of older full-lead handcut crystal.

http://starry-eyed.com/prisms/gallery/newSwarovski.html


Janet UK

On 12/26/2016 10:25 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Never heard the term before, but I've seen thousands of houses in that
> category. They used to be very popular as starter homes for young
> couples as well as an easy to care for home for older couples. Seems
> like everything built today is in the 2500 to 3500 sq. ft. range.
>
> When we moved here 35 years ago it was a step up from our old house. My
> intention was to move again in 5 to 7 years to a larger house.
> Fortunately, we never did. This house is 2000 sq. ft. and is plenty to
> take care of. I could lop off a couple of rooms and not miss them at
> all. No, not going to move. We did some upgrading in the past few
> years and want to enjoy it. In the past 6 years we spent almost as much
> as we paid for the house in 1981. We did it to enjoy it, not for payback.
>
> We replaced 9 windows and an 8' slider door in the family room. There
> will be a payback from energy savings and I figure it is just about 220
> years. The benefit though, is washing the windows from inside and not
> outside painting.

Here's an artist's rendition of the Tudor style mansion my 93 year old
aunt lives in:

https://s24.postimg.org/wu7d8ujp1/brookside.jpg

Uncle George died in 2007. Her children are older than I am, grown and
gone. It's just her puttering around in this big ol' mansion. She
moved her bedroom downstairs about 6 years ago; she can't manage the
stairs anymore.

But for all that, she's a pretty spry old lady and sharp as a tack!
Until fairly recently she'd cook a big dinner for the kids and grandkids
every Sunday. Of course they all lead very busy lives and as the
grandkids got older she kept hearing sorry, can't make it. She stopped
cooking a big Sunday dinner.

I hope they realize she's not going to live forever. I lost my maternal
grandparents when I was 16 and my paternal grandmother when I was 20.
We never did live close enough to see them on a regular basis. Perhaps
because my cousins *do* live in close proximity they simply take for
granted she's right there.

Jill

On 12/26/2016 10:01 AM, Gary wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>> Now we still live in a small house, and our living is done in
>> the living room.
>
> Hence the name. A living room was meant to be lived in. Now we have
> dens, family rooms, great rooms, etc.
>
You live in an apartment, Gary. I've seen a lot of really nice
apartments but most of the ones I've seen don't have a separate living
room *and* a den.

> Now that I live alone, I often eat in my bedroom with the tv.
> Oh the horrors!
>
I usually eat in the "den" which, technically, is a guest bedroom.
My parents kept the room where I'm sitting right now as a "formal"
living room. I think it's a hold-over attitude from the early 60's when
they did a lot of entertaining. In reality, it's just a lot more space
to vacuum.

Jill

wrote:

>Cats can't see colors.

Cat's do indeed see colors only they see colors differently from
humans.
http://www.livescience.com/40459-what-do-cats-see.html

>Where would you buy a prism?

Anywhere that sells science supplies. Most hobby shops sell prisms.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...=2RXX49MXZT87B