On 8/26/2017 2:50 AM, wrote:
> On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 1:17:15 AM UTC-5, Cheri wrote:
>>
>> > wrote in message
>>
>>> What scares me most when on the road are the knuckleheads on their
>>> cell phones. They terrify me more than inebriated drivers. They're
>>> just as bad inside a store with not paying attention but I haven't
>>> heard of anyone yet being killed by a shopping cart.
>>
>>
>> I had a really bad gash on my heel from some moron running their cart into
>> me, but I wasn't scattered all over the store.
>>
>> Cheri
>>
>>
> If they were on their cell phone I hope you gave them a tongue lashing
> they soon won't forget.
>
> I'm not a phone person, never have been. My cell phone is turned on
> maybe twice a month. If my home phone rings once every 3 days I
> feel like turning cartwheels.
>
I still don't own a cell phone. I did, years ago, when I was travelling
and my parents were still alive. I cancelled it shortly after they died.

Just a couple of days ago my home phone rang off the hook. The AT&T
"answerphone" tells me who is calling or what number they're calling
from. Sorry, I don't know anyone at that number. Don't know anyone who
would be calling from [whatever] state. They get my machine and <click>
they're gone. Damn telemarketers.

Unlike some people, I don't have a problem ignoring a ringing phone. If
I want to answer I will. If I don't, not a problem.

Jill

On 8/26/2017 10:21 AM, JBurns wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:02:45 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton

>>
>> Yah, well, I was born in Detroit, so I'm allowed to
>> criticize it.
>>
>>> I gather you can pick one up cheap from the city if you agree to
>>> renovate it. I think Detroit's coming back. Seems you can buy
>>> the adjacent lots for a song, plenty of empty ones where they
>>> razed the houses, I'd buy as many as I could.
>>
>> You'd want to pick your neighborhood fairly carefully. There's
>> no point owning lots if the entire block they're on is razed
>> and never re-developed.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>
> I know nothing much about Detroit beyond articles I read after your
> financial crash, basically stating it was a dying city. However, I was
> searching for something or other yesterday and came across an article
> stating that Detroit has a growing number of cycling tourists due to
> its 400 odd miles of cycling tracks and its flat topography.
>
> JB
>

Detroit can transform itself once the population stabilizes and
employment is good again. This is an opportunity to tear down the worst
of the houses to make some open land and to rehab some of the more sound
structures. Won't happen quickly but I bet there are good opportunities
if you want to invest on 15 years into the future.

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 10:26:10 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 8/26/2017 10:19 AM, wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 09:41:34 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/26/2017 8:54 AM, graham wrote:
>>>> On 2017-08-26 4:51 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think I would want a 'driver' like that* I don't drive now
>>>>> as much as I should.* I drove for many years with no problems but
>>>>> now?* DH prefers to take his car and since we just about always go
>>>>> everywhere together since he retired ...* I took mine out this morning
>>>>> for the first time in a few weeks, but I got him to drive back.* This
>>>>> is really bad!* If, for any reason he is off his feet, I will need to
>>>>> drive my car* I really must start driving more
>>>>>
>>>> Dad was in hospital during the Suez Crisis and Mum had been learning to
>>>> drive. Petrol was rationed and learners were able to drive without a
>>>> driver accompanying them. She eventually got her licence but as soon as
>>>> Dad recovered, she never drove again.
>>>
>>> If you go back to the 50's and even into the 60's, many women did not
>>> drive. One car was sufficient and dad took it to work. Rarely did a
>>> woman actually buy a car. Now, almost half the new car buyers are women.
>>
>> That's not true... far more than half the new cars are leased.
>>
>
>Duh, women lease them too.

Why "Duh? I didn't say women don't lease. You said "almost half the
new car buyers are women." Both sexes lease, equally. And in fact
women drive more new vehicles than men. Far more men will buy used
vehicles. Hardly anyone buys new vehicles anymore. However most
people will not admit their new car is leased... it's very common for
people to say "I just bought a new car" when the truth is it's leased,
in fact I've never heard anyone say "I just leased a new car" because
leasing is renting and people are loathe to admit to being vehicle
tenants. People lease because for the vast majority the price of
new vehicles has risen to where buying is prohibitive. People don't
have that large chunk of cash nor do they want to tie up such a huge
amount because buying is more of a commitment... leasing is only a
commitment to make monthly payments for a couple three years. Leasing
enables people to drive a more expensive/better appointed vehicle than
they could were they to buy. The dealerships like to lease, they make
larger profits on leased vehicles plus they remain part of their
inventory which increases their net worth for conducting and expanding
their business. Think of it this way, a dealership that leases is
just like someone owning apartment buildings in the high rent
district.

On 8/26/2017 10:34 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 9:41:43 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>>
>> If you go back to the 50's and even into the 60's, many women did not
>> drive. One car was sufficient and dad took it to work. Rarely did a
>> woman actually buy a car. Now, almost half the new car buyers are women.
>
> About half the population are women, so that's about right.
>
> I'm considerably younger than you; all my friends' mothers drove. In
> my generation, both sexes considered getting their driver's license
> an important rite of passage.

> Cindy Hamilton
>

That rite of passage is fading. My brother got his license the first
Saturday after his 16th birthday, I got mine about two weeks after
mine. My now wife was probably 6 months, but one younger sister never did.

My daughter's new husband has an 18 yo son and has no inclination to get
his license yet. He just got a mediocre job in walking distance. Only
looked for a job because they turned his phone off.

Many teens are opting to wait these days. Phones and video games are
more important than cars.

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 07:34:22 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 9:41:43 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 8/26/2017 8:54 AM, graham wrote:
>> > On 2017-08-26 4:51 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>> >>
>> >> I don't think I would want a 'driver' like that* I don't drive now
>> >> as much as I should.* I drove for many years with no problems but
>> >> now?* DH prefers to take his car and since we just about always go
>> >> everywhere together since he retired ...* I took mine out this morning
>> >> for the first time in a few weeks, but I got him to drive back.* This
>> >> is really bad!* If, for any reason he is off his feet, I will need to
>> >> drive my car* I really must start driving more
>> >>
>> > Dad was in hospital during the Suez Crisis and Mum had been learning to
>> > drive. Petrol was rationed and learners were able to drive without a
>> > driver accompanying them. She eventually got her licence but as soon as
>> > Dad recovered, she never drove again.
>>
>> If you go back to the 50's and even into the 60's, many women did not
>> drive. One car was sufficient and dad took it to work. Rarely did a
>> woman actually buy a car. Now, almost half the new car buyers are women.
>
>About half the population are women, so that's about right.

And women drive newer more expensive vehicles than men do.

>I'm considerably younger than you; all my friends' mothers drove. In
>my generation, both sexes considered getting their driver's license
>an important rite of passage.
>
>IIRC, at least one of my grandmother's friends didn't drive. My grandmother
>often picked her up and drove her places, although when the canasta ladies
>met at my grandmother's house, someone else drove Ora Lee there.
>
>Motown. Cars were (and still are) king.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

On 8/26/2017 10:34 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 9:41:43 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>> If you go back to the 50's and even into the 60's, many women did not
>> drive. One car was sufficient and dad took it to work. Rarely did a
>> woman actually buy a car. Now, almost half the new car buyers are women.
>
> About half the population are women, so that's about right.

I don't think that number is even representative. I've read that the
men might sign on the dotted line but the woman in their life has a
lot of say in the choice.

My name isn't on either car. Just because I didn't sign the papers
doesn't mean I wasn't a major factor in what car we buy. Dealers have
learned to be nice to the wife.

nancy

On 8/26/2017 11:46 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 8/26/2017 10:34 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 9:41:43 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>>> If you go back to the 50's and even into the 60's, many women did not
>>> drive.Â* One car was sufficient and dad took it to work.Â* Rarely did a
>>> woman actually buy a car.Â* Now, almost half the new car buyers are
>>> women.
>>
>> About half the population are women, so that's about right.
>
> I don't think that number is even representative.Â* I've read that the
> men might sign on the dotted line but the woman in their life has a
> lot of say in the choice.
>
> My name isn't on either car.Â* Just because I didn't sign the papers
> doesn't mean I wasn't a major factor in what car we buy.Â* Dealers have
> learned to be nice to the wife.
>
> nancy

True. My wife does not care about the engine or optional wheel size,
but she has picked out or at least approved the color. She has not
driven in a few years but still likes to ride in comfort so she wants
all the goodies too.

On 8/26/2017 11:26 AM, wrote:

> Hardly anyone buys new vehicles anymore. However most
> people will not admit their new car is leased... it's very common for
> people to say "I just bought a new car" when the truth is it's leased,
> in fact I've never heard anyone say "I just leased a new car" because
> leasing is renting and people are loathe to admit to being vehicle
> tenants.


If you drive a lot of miles you get slammed on the miles charge though.
I know a couple of people that screwed themselves with what sounded good
a few years earlier.


The dealerships like to lease, they make
> larger profits on leased vehicles plus they remain part of their
> inventory which increases their net worth for conducting and expanding
> their business. Think of it this way, a dealership that leases is
> just like someone owning apartment buildings in the high rent
> district.
>

I'm not familiar with all leases, but the company cars we had were
property of GMAC, not the dealer that made the deal.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 8/26/2017 10:34 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 9:41:43 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>>>
>>> If you go back to the 50's and even into the 60's, many women did not
>>> drive. One car was sufficient and dad took it to work. Rarely did a
>>> woman actually buy a car. Now, almost half the new car buyers are
>>> women.
>>
>> About half the population are women, so that's about right.
>>
>> I'm considerably younger than you; all my friends' mothers drove. In
>> my generation, both sexes considered getting their driver's license
>> an important rite of passage.
>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>
> That rite of passage is fading. My brother got his license the first
> Saturday after his 16th birthday, I got mine about two weeks after mine.
> My now wife was probably 6 months, but one younger sister never did.
>
> My daughter's new husband has an 18 yo son and has no inclination to get
> his license yet. He just got a mediocre job in walking distance. Only
> looked for a job because they turned his phone off.
>
> Many teens are opting to wait these days. Phones and video games are more
> important than cars.


Plus mom and dad are great chauffeurs so they don't need to bother with it
as much.

Cheri

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
news
> On 8/26/2017 11:26 AM, wrote:
>
>> Hardly anyone buys new vehicles anymore. However most
>> people will not admit their new car is leased... it's very common for
>> people to say "I just bought a new car" when the truth is it's leased,
>> in fact I've never heard anyone say "I just leased a new car" because
>> leasing is renting and people are loathe to admit to being vehicle
>> tenants.
>
>
> If you drive a lot of miles you get slammed on the miles charge though. I
> know a couple of people that screwed themselves with what sounded good a
> few years earlier.
>
>
> The dealerships like to lease, they make
>> larger profits on leased vehicles plus they remain part of their
>> inventory which increases their net worth for conducting and expanding
>> their business. Think of it this way, a dealership that leases is
>> just like someone owning apartment buildings in the high rent
>> district.
>>
>
> I'm not familiar with all leases, but the company cars we had were
> property of GMAC, not the dealer that made the deal.

We leased two cars, never went over the mileage but then I didn't really go
too many places. I can see it would be a problem if you did, and he had his
truck which most of the miles were put on. That balloon payment at the end
isn't much fun if you want to keep it. We turned the first lease over for a
second lease, but bought the second lease out.

Cheri

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 11:47:15 AM UTC-4, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 8/26/2017 10:34 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 9:41:43 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> >> If you go back to the 50's and even into the 60's, many women did not
> >> drive. One car was sufficient and dad took it to work. Rarely did a
> >> woman actually buy a car. Now, almost half the new car buyers are women.
> >
> > About half the population are women, so that's about right.
>
> I don't think that number is even representative. I've read that the
> men might sign on the dotted line but the woman in their life has a
> lot of say in the choice.
>
> My name isn't on either car. Just because I didn't sign the papers
> doesn't mean I wasn't a major factor in what car we buy. Dealers have
> learned to be nice to the wife.

Both of our cars are titled in both of our names.

When I go to buy a car, I make the first reconnaissance by myself. I
decide what I want. (I borrow my husband's car so that they don't have
a clear idea of what I want to trade in.)

I bring my husband on the second trip so that he can provide his opinion.
That second trip is generally the one where I say "I'll take it".

Cindy Hamilton

On 8/26/2017 12:13 PM, Cheri wrote:


>>>
>>
>> I'm not familiar with all leases, but the company cars we had were
>> property of GMAC, not the dealer that made the deal.
>
> We leased two cars, never went over the mileage but then I didn't really
> go too many places. I can see it would be a problem if you did, and he
> had his truck which most of the miles were put on. That balloon payment
> at the end isn't much fun if you want to keep it. We turned the first
> lease over for a second lease, but bought the second lease out.
>
> Cheri

There used to b some good deals on leases. Back in 1983 our company
leased cars for some of us. At the end of the lease we were able to buy
the car at a very good price. Three of us did.

Now they advertise a low monthly payment but want $4000 up front and a
limit of 10,000 miles. May still work for some though.

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 11:46:57 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>On 8/26/2017 10:34 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 9:41:43 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>>> If you go back to the 50's and even into the 60's, many women did not
>>> drive. One car was sufficient and dad took it to work. Rarely did a
>>> woman actually buy a car. Now, almost half the new car buyers are women.
>>
>> About half the population are women, so that's about right.
>
>I don't think that number is even representative. I've read that the
>men might sign on the dotted line but the woman in their life has a
>lot of say in the choice.
>
>My name isn't on either car. Just because I didn't sign the papers
>doesn't mean I wasn't a major factor in what car we buy. Dealers have
>learned to be nice to the wife.
>
>nancy

Yes, it started with the Japanese car dealers, they were first to
realise that nice waiting rooms with tv and coffee paid off. Soon the
rest had to follow.

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 16:31:53 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Sat 26 Aug 2017 06:41:34a, Ed Pawlowski told us...
>
>> On 8/26/2017 8:54 AM, graham wrote:
>>> On 2017-08-26 4:51 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think I would want a 'driver' like thatÂ* I don't
>>>> drive now as much as I should.Â* I drove for many years with no
>>>> problems but now?Â* DH prefers to take his car and since we just
>>>> about always go everywhere together since he retired ...Â* I
>>>> took mine out this morning for the first time in a few weeks,
>>>> but I got him to drive back.Â* This is really bad!Â* If, for any
>>>> reason he is off his feet, I will need to drive my carÂ* I
>>>> really must start driving more
>>>>
>>> Dad was in hospital during the Suez Crisis and Mum had been
>>> learning to drive. Petrol was rationed and learners were able to
>>> drive without a driver accompanying them. She eventually got her
>>> licence but as soon as Dad recovered, she never drove again.
>>
>> If you go back to the 50's and even into the 60's, many women did
>> not drive. One car was sufficient and dad took it to work.
>> Rarely did a woman actually buy a car. Now, almost half the new
>> car buyers are women.
>>
>
>My mother and my aunt both learned to drive in the early 1930s.
>After my parents married in 1937 much of his job involved travel and
>they needed to two cars. My mother drove until the age of 84, and
>passed away later the same year.

I learned to drive when I was 12 going on 13. My father taught me so
I could drive my mother round Tokyo - there were no Japanese police at
that point (occupation time) and if my mother wasn't in the car with
me there was nothing I enjoyed more than waiting until the MPs were
behind me, then speeding. When pulled over I could tell them 'You
can't touch me, I'm a British Subject' - oh it was delicious

> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 16:31:53 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
>>On Sat 26 Aug 2017 06:41:34a, Ed Pawlowski told us...
>>
>>> On 8/26/2017 8:54 AM, graham wrote:
>>>> On 2017-08-26 4:51 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think I would want a 'driver' like that I don't
>>>>> drive now as much as I should. I drove for many years with no
>>>>> problems but now? DH prefers to take his car and since we just
>>>>> about always go everywhere together since he retired ... I
>>>>> took mine out this morning for the first time in a few weeks,
>>>>> but I got him to drive back. This is really bad! If, for any
>>>>> reason he is off his feet, I will need to drive my car I
>>>>> really must start driving more
>>>>>
>>>> Dad was in hospital during the Suez Crisis and Mum had been
>>>> learning to drive. Petrol was rationed and learners were able to
>>>> drive without a driver accompanying them. She eventually got her
>>>> licence but as soon as Dad recovered, she never drove again.
>>>
>>> If you go back to the 50's and even into the 60's, many women did
>>> not drive. One car was sufficient and dad took it to work.
>>> Rarely did a woman actually buy a car. Now, almost half the new
>>> car buyers are women.
>>>
>>
>>My mother and my aunt both learned to drive in the early 1930s.
>>After my parents married in 1937 much of his job involved travel and
>>they needed to two cars. My mother drove until the age of 84, and
>>passed away later the same year.
>
> I learned to drive when I was 12 going on 13. My father taught me so
> I could drive my mother round Tokyo - there were no Japanese police at
> that point (occupation time) and if my mother wasn't in the car with
> me there was nothing I enjoyed more than waiting until the MPs were
> behind me, then speeding. When pulled over I could tell them 'You
> can't touch me, I'm a British Subject' - oh it was delicious


Same here. It was an old pickup on the ranch, couldn't really hurt anybody
there, stick shift. I did fail my DL test twice, once for speeding and once
for the parallel parking, however I am a great parallel parker now.

Cheri

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message

> I used to be great at parallel parking but haven't needed to do so in
> a very long time. Most places we go have parking lots or angled
> street parking.

Yes, most places I go have lot parking, but the downtown where I am has only
parallel parking spaces on the main street.

Cheri

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 17:25:16 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Sat 26 Aug 2017 10:13:43a, Cheri told us...
>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 16:31:53 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat 26 Aug 2017 06:41:34a, Ed Pawlowski told us...
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/26/2017 8:54 AM, graham wrote:
>>>>>> On 2017-08-26 4:51 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think I would want a 'driver' like that I don't
>>>>>>> drive now as much as I should. I drove for many years with
>>>>>>> no problems but now? DH prefers to take his car and since we
>>>>>>> just about always go everywhere together since he retired
>>>>>>> ... I took mine out this morning for the first time in a few
>>>>>>> weeks, but I got him to drive back. This is really bad! If,
>>>>>>> for any reason he is off his feet, I will need to drive my
>>>>>>> car I really must start driving more
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dad was in hospital during the Suez Crisis and Mum had been
>>>>>> learning to drive. Petrol was rationed and learners were able
>>>>>> to drive without a driver accompanying them. She eventually
>>>>>> got her licence but as soon as Dad recovered, she never drove
>>>>>> again.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you go back to the 50's and even into the 60's, many women
>>>>> did not drive. One car was sufficient and dad took it to work.
>>>>> Rarely did a woman actually buy a car. Now, almost half the
>>>>> new car buyers are women.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>My mother and my aunt both learned to drive in the early 1930s.
>>>>After my parents married in 1937 much of his job involved travel
>>>>and they needed to two cars. My mother drove until the age of
>>>>84, and passed away later the same year.
>>>
>>> I learned to drive when I was 12 going on 13. My father taught
>>> me so I could drive my mother round Tokyo - there were no
>>> Japanese police at that point (occupation time) and if my mother
>>> wasn't in the car with me there was nothing I enjoyed more than
>>> waiting until the MPs were behind me, then speeding. When pulled
>>> over I could tell them 'You can't touch me, I'm a British
>>> Subject' - oh it was delicious
>>
>>
>> Same here. It was an old pickup on the ranch, couldn't really hurt
>> anybody there, stick shift. I did fail my DL test twice, once for
>> speeding and once for the parallel parking, however I am a great
>> parallel parker now.
>>
>> Cheri
>>
>>
>
>I used to be great at parallel parking but haven't needed to do so in
>a very long time. Most places we go have parking lots or angled
>street parking.

I can do it easily with my little car but most often I reverse into
parking spots, people always seem surprised but I would much rather
come back to drive out of the parking spot no hassle.

Golden One wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:02:45 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> >On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 9:47:12 AM UTC-4, Nancy Young wrote:
> >> On 8/25/2017 6:29 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >> > On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 6:50:23 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> >> >> On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 4:15:35 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The avg price for a car is now about $33K-USD. You can buy a house
> >> >>> fer less! 8|
> >>
> >> >> Where can you buy a house for less than $33,000? I mean a house
> >> >> that is turn-key.
> >> >
> >> > Probably not even in Detroit.
> >>
> >> I actually wrote those very words and deleted them.
> >
> >Yah, well, I was born in Detroit, so I'm allowed to
> >criticize it.
> >
> >> I gather you can pick one up cheap from the city if you agree to
> >> renovate it. I think Detroit's coming back. Seems you can buy
> >> the adjacent lots for a song, plenty of empty ones where they
> >> razed the houses, I'd buy as many as I could.
> >
> >You'd want to pick your neighborhood fairly carefully. There's
> >no point owning lots if the entire block they're on is razed
> >and never re-developed.
> >
> >Cindy Hamilton
>
> I know nothing much about Detroit beyond articles I read after your
> financial crash, basically stating it was a dying city. However, I was
> searching for something or other yesterday and came across an article
> stating that Detroit has a growing number of cycling tourists due to
> its 400 odd miles of cycling tracks and its flat topography.


The thing is, all this new stuff going on in Detroit is primarily done by and for wealthy whites, who can afford organic farmers markets, cycling tourist trails, trendy art galleries, old industrial sites transformed into chic loft housing, microbreweries, etc....few if any of these things can the embattled black majority afford or access, they might as well be a million miles away. I saw some article that new "tiny homes" might be an answer to house some of Detroit's poorer residents...but those "tiny homes" carry a price tag of 75 - 100K, at that price point they are a white hipster affectation, not viable for the poor.

Looking at an aerial view of Detroit, you notice a few downtown high - rises surrounded by what seems to be rural prairie - 'cept those "prairies" used to be thriving nabes, now those are abandoned and demolished. Very eerie, most of the city looks like the abandoned remains of Chernobyl, fast reverting to nature.

During WWII Detroit would have been, if an independent nation, the fourth - biggest industrial power in the world, ranking behind the US, UK, and Germany. The Allies won the war because of Detroit's mighty output. I wish there were some viable way to revive the place, the outlook remains pretty dim.

Of course with me, this gets back to the JOBS JOBS JOBS thing. You can open a snazzy new hi - tech manufacturing facility with a 1000 jobs in Detroit, rural Kentucky, inner city Baltimore, or South Side Chicago, with high - paying career jobs, but only a small percentage of applicants would be qualified for those jobs - they lack the technical and life skills, plus few could even pass a drug test.

In impoverished rural and urban American, we have a whole new permanent "underclass of despair", they are jobless, skill - less, addicted to opioid/crack/alcohol, suicides, violence, they engage in criminal acts and end up in prison. This population lacks good role models, from birth - mama is a crack whore, and "who's my baby daddy?". Pretty hopeless! This is what happened to many in the USSR after communism fell, Russia has developed a whole new "class of despair" of defeated people - and we've got it here in the States now, too, from the hollers of West Virginia to the slums of Oakland, California...

"What to do...WHAT to DO...!!!???"

PS: I know that Sheldon and some others here are always saying "get a SKILL...vocational education...!!!" And that is true, we need vocational training. Heck, I know formerly poor peeps who got their CDL licenses, and now they make a very comfortable living as truck drivers; same with welding, plumbing, electricians, any other skilled trade. BUT, people in general are often too soft nowadays, the concept of goal - setting, paying one's dues, and a day's hard work are alien concepts, both in the ghetto and the Ivy League college campuses...


--
Best
Greg

On Saturday, 26 August 2017 10:31:03 UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 8/26/2017 10:34 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 9:41:43 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> >>
> >> If you go back to the 50's and even into the 60's, many women did not
> >> drive. One car was sufficient and dad took it to work. Rarely did a
> >> woman actually buy a car. Now, almost half the new car buyers are women.
> >
> > About half the population are women, so that's about right.
> >
> > I'm considerably younger than you; all my friends' mothers drove. In
> > my generation, both sexes considered getting their driver's license
> > an important rite of passage.
>
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
>
> That rite of passage is fading. My brother got his license the first
> Saturday after his 16th birthday, I got mine about two weeks after
> mine. My now wife was probably 6 months, but one younger sister never did.
>
> My daughter's new husband has an 18 yo son and has no inclination to get
> his license yet. He just got a mediocre job in walking distance. Only
> looked for a job because they turned his phone off.
>
> Many teens are opting to wait these days. Phones and video games are
> more important than cars.

Remember when we were kids and "new car time" rolled around every fall, it was almost as thrilling as Christmas or any other fun holiday. Now younger folk regard vehicles as "appliances", like a microwave or toaster oven. They are thrilled by new phones and social media, not new cars so much...

--
Best
Greg -->> aka "old fogey"

On 8/26/2017 2:06 AM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 12:08:48 PM UTC-10, wrote:
>> On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 1:59:25 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>> There are many accidents today cause by people falling asleep or being
>>> distracted. Things like lane change alerts and lane assist can prevent
>>> some of them. What worries more more is people on drugs and people usi
>>> g cell phones.
>>>
>>>
>> What scares me most when on the road are the knuckleheads on their
>> cell phones. They terrify me more than inebriated drivers. They're
>> just as bad inside a store with not paying attention but I haven't
>> heard of anyone yet being killed by a shopping cart.
>
> What I see frequently is a car waiting at a stop light just not moving when the other cars have gone. That happens all the time - it's funny. We always say "texting!"
>

"Caught between the longing for love
And the struggle for the legal tender
Where the sirens sing and the church bells ring
And the junk man pounds his fender
Where the veterans dream of the fight
Fast asleep at the traffic light..."

- Jackson Browne


.....times have changed...

On 8/26/2017 5:01 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> "Casa de Masa"Â* wrote in message news >
> On 8/25/2017 1:21 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>> On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 9:04:50 AM UTC-10, Casa de Masa wrote:
>>> On 8/25/2017 12:49 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 6:38:36 PM UTC-10, Casa de Masa wrote:
>>>>> On 8/24/2017 10:01 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 4:43:20 PM UTC-10, Casa de Masa
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/24/2017 6:23 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 10:53:28 AM UTC-10, Nancy Young
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 8/24/2017 3:59 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/24/2017 3:27 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/24/2017 1:48 PM, wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> i do like the voice activated thing;
>>>>>>>>>>>> it's nice with radio stations, and GPS
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> i got a toasted walnut color, with almond interior, happy me
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> looking into the lane drift assist thing; sounds helpful
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We test drove one model and lane drift was turned on.Â* Took me
>>>>>>>>>>> about 30 seconds to say You can turn that off, right? beep beep
>>>>>>>>>>> beep.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's not that I'm weaving, it's that as the road curves, I
>>>>>>>>>>> lean into it a bit, not drive perfectly centered like a
>>>>>>>>>>> train on tracks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If mine beeped it would rive me nuts.Â* It has a haptic
>>>>>>>>>> steering wheel so
>>>>>>>>>> you feel it, silently.Â* You also see it in the heads up
>>>>>>>>>> display. It
>>>>>>>>>> will also nudge the wheel if you go too far.Â* While capable of
>>>>>>>>>> steering
>>>>>>>>>> on a road with painted lines, it will disengage of you take
>>>>>>>>>> hands off
>>>>>>>>>> the steering wheel more than 30 seconds.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I see where all this technology is leading, but I really don't
>>>>>>>>> care
>>>>>>>>> to have my car monitoring me.Â* I guess I'll be happy when it stops
>>>>>>>>> short of hitting someone for me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If someone takes their hands off the wheel for that long, i
>>>>>>>>> want it to
>>>>>>>>> stay engaged.Â* Like that guy driving a Tesla to work ... sound
>>>>>>>>> asleep.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> nancy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In a short while we're all going to be taken to where we want to
>>>>>>>> go by robot cars. People in the future will find it hard to
>>>>>>>> believe that we had control over such a dangerous conveyance and
>>>>>>>> that we found the number of people killed/maimed/scarred every
>>>>>>>> year to be an acceptable risk.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A "Minority Report" future does not make me sanguine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It'll be a different world where everybody is monitored.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know, creeps me out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like Android phones sending all our audio to goo goo - sick.
>>>>>
>>>>>> That would not be our major problem, however. What's troublesome
>>>>>> is machines getting too smart for our good.
>>>>>
>>>>> Elon Musk knows.
>>>>>
>>>>>> A few seconds after a machine becomes aware of itself, it will
>>>>>> have recognized what it has to do to ensure it's > survival. The
>>>>>> first rule of business is that it has to conceal itself from the
>>>>>> humans i.e., act dumb.
>>>>>
>>>>> It already happened:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://gadgets.ndtv.com/social-netwo...nguage-1731309
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Days after Tesla CEO Elon Musk said Facebook co-founder Mark
>>>>> Zuckerberg's understanding of artificial intelligence (AI) was
>>>>> limited,
>>>>> the social media company has reportedly shut down one of its AI
>>>>> systems
>>>>> because "things got out of hand." The AI bots created their own
>>>>> language, from the scratch and without human input, forcing
>>>>> Facebook to
>>>>> shut down the AI system. The AI bots' step of creating and
>>>>> communicating
>>>>> with the new language defied the provided codes.
>>>>>
>>>>> According to a report in Tech Times on Sunday, "The AI did not start
>>>>> shutting down computers worldwide or something of the sort, but it
>>>>> stopped using English and started using a language that it created."
>>>>> Initially the AI agents used English to converse with each other but
>>>>> they later created a new language that only AI systems could
>>>>> understand,
>>>>> thus, defying their purpose.
>>>>>
>>>>> This led Facebook researchers to shut down the AI systems and then
>>>>> force
>>>>> them to speak to each other only in English.
>>>>>
>>>>>> In a few years, maybe tomorrow, AI researchers will get a creepy
>>>>>> feeling that they have indeed created a new
>>>>>
>>>>>> lifeform. It's going to scare them. The only question is will that
>>>>>> be enough?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not quite, because it will be too late by then.
>>>>
>>>> I read that news item. It is a most curious thing.
>>>
>>> In a menacing way, yes.
>>>
>>>> There will soon be protocols to handle/prevent/stop this sort of thing.
>>>
>>> Protocols written by man, which is akin to no security at all as we are
>>> teaching AI to think as we do.
>>>
>>>> Â* OTOH, a hundred years from now, the only beings reading these
>>>> posts might be only machines.
>>>
>>> I can certainly see that, with our souls/consciousness trapped inside
>>> them...maybe...
>>>
>>> I mean for what reason will they need the carbon-based infestation at
>>> that point?
>>>
>>> We're like pigeons, minus the whimsy and remnant carrier utility.
>>>
>>>> Hopefully, they'll be able to take care of this planet better than
>>>> us humans.
>>>
>>> They will have learned from us, what does that tell you?
>>>
>>> I ponder the body electric and ask might a machine ever contemplate
>>> suicide?
>>>
>>> What if resources dwindle to the point that "Wall-E" is all that's left
>>> here?
>>
>> Machines should be able to handle most any environment, I guess. OTOH,
>> I better watch that movie. Sounds interesting.
>>
>
>
> Oh my is it ever, very "adult" themed for what is nominally a "kids" film.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1BQPV-iCkU
>
> Lil' Abner tangentially previewed this decades befo
>
> http://lil-abner.com/the-shmoo/
>
> Ironically, the lovable and selfless Shmoos ultimately brought misery to
> humankind because people with a limitless supply of self-sacrificing
> Shmoos stopped working and society broke down. Seen at first as a boon
> to humankind, they were ultimately hunted down and exterminated to
> preserve the status quo. (Thought extinct after the 1948 adventure, one
> Shmoo always seemed to escape to Dogpatchs Valley of the Shmoon to form
> a new colony and a later plot revival by Capp).
>
> ===
>
> I am quite sure I will never live to see that, but I can see the way it
> might go
>
> Automatic 'everything'.Â* If it gets so bad, it will kill off humankind.
>
Consider Branson and Gates are already ginning up laboratory meat!

Oh it's coming, long as an asteroid doesn't erase our mess of a world.

On 8/26/2017 9:12 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 8/26/2017 10:21 AM, JBurns wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:02:45 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>
>>>
>>> Yah, well, I was born in Detroit, so I'm allowed to
>>> criticize it.
>>>
>>>> I gather you can pick one up cheap from the city if you agree to
>>>> renovate it.Â* I think Detroit's coming back.Â* Seems you can buy
>>>> the adjacent lots for a song, plenty of empty ones where they
>>>> razed the houses, I'd buy as many as I could.
>>>
>>> You'd want to pick your neighborhood fairly carefully.Â* There's
>>> no point owning lots if the entire block they're on is razed
>>> and never re-developed.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>> I know nothing much about Detroit beyond articles I read after your
>> financial crash, basically stating it was a dying city. However, I was
>> searching for something or other yesterday and came across an article
>> stating that Detroit has a growing number of cycling tourists due to
>> its 400 odd miles of cycling tracks and its flat topography.
>>
>> JB
>>
>
> Detroit can transform itself once the population stabilizes and
> employment is good again.Â* This is an opportunity to tear down the worst
> of the houses to make some open land and to rehab some of the more sound
> structures.Â* Won't happen quickly but I bet there are good opportunities
> if you want to invest on 15 years into the future.

Detroit is a crime-ridden Hell hole.

Ever hear of their longstanding tradition named Devil's Night?

https://content.time.com/time/photog...933241,00.html

Detroit Fights Devil's Night

The city combats Halloween-time arson,
a deadly local custom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbq05Lh2XCU

Detroit Fire Department, and Highland Park Fire Department Box Alarms,
and responses from the day of October 30 through the early morning hours
of October 31 2013.
SHOW MORE

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 8:41:43 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> On 8/26/2017 8:54 AM, graham wrote:
>
> > Dad was in hospital during the Suez Crisis and Mum had been learning to
> > drive. Petrol was rationed and learners were able to drive without a
> > driver accompanying them. She eventually got her licence but as soon as
> > Dad recovered, she never drove again.
>
> If you go back to the 50's and even into the 60's, many women did not
> drive. One car was sufficient and dad took it to work. Rarely did a
> woman actually buy a car. Now, almost half the new car buyers are women.
>
>
My mother never learned to drive nor did one of her sisters. Even as a
small child I vowed I would learn to drive and have my own car. When
my dad died she always had to depend on one of us children to take her
anywhere she needed to go. We never minded as we got to spend one on
one time with her but she never knew the independence of having her own
transportation.

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 12:14:29 PM UTC-5, Cheri wrote:
>
> I did fail my DL test twice, once for speeding and once
> for the parallel parking, however I am a great parallel parker now.
>
> Cher
>
>
Parallel parking is just so darn easy, I don't understand why so
many drivers have trouble with it.

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 1:57:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>
> I can do it easily with my little car but most often I reverse into
> parking spots, people always seem surprised but I would much rather
> come back to drive out of the parking spot no hassle.
>
>
Thank you, thank you! I absolutely HATE backing out of a spot and
will do my darnedest to back into a spot. It never fails on the
rare occasion that I do have to back out of a spot some idiot
decides at just that moment to walk behind my vehicle. No matter
that I've looked left and right, behind me, checked all three mirrors
and repeated those steps again. Do my best imitation of Linda Blair
in the "Exorcist" and BAM! There's some squirrel right behind me
and 99% of the time they're on a cell phone.

GRRRRRRRRRRR!

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 12:59:42 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

>On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 1:57:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>>
>> I can do it easily with my little car but most often I reverse into
>> parking spots, people always seem surprised but I would much rather
>> come back to drive out of the parking spot no hassle.
>>
>>
>Thank you, thank you! I absolutely HATE backing out of a spot and
>will do my darnedest to back into a spot. It never fails on the
>rare occasion that I do have to back out of a spot some idiot
>decides at just that moment to walk behind my vehicle. No matter
>that I've looked left and right, behind me, checked all three mirrors
>and repeated those steps again. Do my best imitation of Linda Blair
>in the "Exorcist" and BAM! There's some squirrel right behind me
>and 99% of the time they're on a cell phone.
>
>GRRRRRRRRRRR!

Quite! I have a Mazda 2 so it's small and if two SUVs or trucks park
next to me, I am much better off heading out front first

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 3:01:08 PM UTC-4, Ding - Dong Daddy wrote:
> Golden One wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:02:45 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 9:47:12 AM UTC-4, Nancy Young wrote:
> > >> On 8/25/2017 6:29 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > >> > On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 6:50:23 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > >> >> On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 4:15:35 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> The avg price for a car is now about $33K-USD. You can buy a house
> > >> >>> fer less! 8|
> > >>
> > >> >> Where can you buy a house for less than $33,000? I mean a house
> > >> >> that is turn-key.
> > >> >
> > >> > Probably not even in Detroit.
> > >>
> > >> I actually wrote those very words and deleted them.
> > >
> > >Yah, well, I was born in Detroit, so I'm allowed to
> > >criticize it.
> > >
> > >> I gather you can pick one up cheap from the city if you agree to
> > >> renovate it. I think Detroit's coming back. Seems you can buy
> > >> the adjacent lots for a song, plenty of empty ones where they
> > >> razed the houses, I'd buy as many as I could.
> > >
> > >You'd want to pick your neighborhood fairly carefully. There's
> > >no point owning lots if the entire block they're on is razed
> > >and never re-developed.
> > >
> > >Cindy Hamilton
> >
> > I know nothing much about Detroit beyond articles I read after your
> > financial crash, basically stating it was a dying city. However, I was
> > searching for something or other yesterday and came across an article
> > stating that Detroit has a growing number of cycling tourists due to
> > its 400 odd miles of cycling tracks and its flat topography.
>
>
> The thing is, all this new stuff going on in Detroit is primarily done by and for wealthy whites, who can afford organic farmers markets, cycling tourist trails, trendy art galleries, old industrial sites transformed into chic loft housing, microbreweries, etc....few if any of these things can the embattled black majority afford or access, they might as well be a million miles away. I saw some article that new "tiny homes" might be an answer to house some of Detroit's poorer residents...but those "tiny homes" carry a price tag of 75 - 100K, at that price point they are a white hipster affectation, not viable for the poor.
>
> Looking at an aerial view of Detroit, you notice a few downtown high - rises surrounded by what seems to be rural prairie - 'cept those "prairies" used to be thriving nabes, now those are abandoned and demolished. Very eerie, most of the city looks like the abandoned remains of Chernobyl, fast reverting to nature.
>
> During WWII Detroit would have been, if an independent nation, the fourth - biggest industrial power in the world, ranking behind the US, UK, and Germany. The Allies won the war because of Detroit's mighty output. I wish there were some viable way to revive the place, the outlook remains pretty dim.
>
> Of course with me, this gets back to the JOBS JOBS JOBS thing. You can open a snazzy new hi - tech manufacturing facility with a 1000 jobs in Detroit, rural Kentucky, inner city Baltimore, or South Side Chicago, with high - paying career jobs, but only a small percentage of applicants would be qualified for those jobs - they lack the technical and life skills, plus few could even pass a drug test.
>
> In impoverished rural and urban American, we have a whole new permanent "underclass of despair", they are jobless, skill - less, addicted to opioid/crack/alcohol, suicides, violence, they engage in criminal acts and end up in prison. This population lacks good role models, from birth - mama is a crack whore, and "who's my baby daddy?". Pretty hopeless! This is what happened to many in the USSR after communism fell, Russia has developed a whole new "class of despair" of defeated people - and we've got it here in the States now, too, from the hollers of West Virginia to the slums of Oakland, California...
>
> "What to do...WHAT to DO...!!!???"
>
> PS: I know that Sheldon and some others here are always saying "get a SKILL...vocational education...!!!" And that is true, we need vocational training. Heck, I know formerly poor peeps who got their CDL licenses, and now they make a very comfortable living as truck drivers; same with welding, plumbing, electricians, any other skilled trade. BUT, people in general are often too soft nowadays, the concept of goal - setting, paying one's dues, and a day's hard work are alien concepts, both in the ghetto and the Ivy League college campuses...

I've always said that if someone made me Dictator of the United States,
the first thing I'd do would be to get all of the media execs together
and say, "Look, people. It's time for you to produce programming that
elevates your viewers, inspires them to be better than they are, and
shows positive role models for both sexes. Otherwise, I'm going to
nationalize your asses."

The second thing I'd do is to get together all of the superintendents
of every public school system and say, "First, start really teaching the
fundamentals of reading, writing, and math, and stop latching on to
every passing pedagogical trend. Second, not everybody is going to
get a four-year bachelor's degree, so create meaningful vocational
education programs. Third, along the way, make our kids into
good citizens. Use Aesop, Shakespeare, Marcus Aurelius, Goofus and
Gallant--whatever it takes. Teach the bad as well as the good of
our history. And for God's sake: the way to self-esteem is by
developing skills, not by giving everybody a trophy for showing up."

Then we can start talking about other systemic problems.

Cindy Hamilton

On 2017-08-26 2:30 PM, wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 12:59:42 -0700 (PDT), "
> > wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 1:57:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>>>
>>> I can do it easily with my little car but most often I reverse into
>>> parking spots, people always seem surprised but I would much rather
>>> come back to drive out of the parking spot no hassle.
>>>
>>>
>> Thank you, thank you! I absolutely HATE backing out of a spot and
>> will do my darnedest to back into a spot. It never fails on the
>> rare occasion that I do have to back out of a spot some idiot
>> decides at just that moment to walk behind my vehicle. No matter
>> that I've looked left and right, behind me, checked all three mirrors
>> and repeated those steps again. Do my best imitation of Linda Blair
>> in the "Exorcist" and BAM! There's some squirrel right behind me
>> and 99% of the time they're on a cell phone.
>>
>> GRRRRRRRRRRR!
>
> Quite! I have a Mazda 2 so it's small and if two SUVs or trucks park
> next to me, I am much better off heading out front first
>
As Alberta doesn't have front number plates, you must drive into the
spot in any city owned lot, otherwise they ticket you.

On 8/26/2017 11:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 8/26/2017 11:46 AM, Nancy Young wrote:

>> My name isn't on either car.Â* Just because I didn't sign the papers
>> doesn't mean I wasn't a major factor in what car we buy.Â* Dealers have
>> learned to be nice to the wife.

> True.Â* My wife does not care about the engine or optional wheel size,
> but she has picked out or at least approved the color.Â* She has not
> driven in a few years but still likes to ride in comfort so she wants
> all the goodies too.

I've turned over the color choice, for some reason he always wants
a black car anymore. But it will have 4 doors, and 6 cylinders.
That tends to come with the toys I like, too. He doesn't get his
two doors and I, regrettably, don't get my stick shift. I had my
way on that for years so it's his choice now.

nancy

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 3:37:28 PM UTC-5, graham wrote:
>
> As Alberta doesn't have front number plates, you must drive into the
> spot in any city owned lot, otherwise they ticket you.
>
>
We don't have front license plates here either, but it makes no
difference if you pull in or back in as long as you are between
the lines. Is someone driving around all the time checking plates?

That reminds when my company was downtown and we had a HUGE, HUGE
uncovered parking lot. You had pull into the space as the parking
lot attendant was a lazy asshole. When he drove around the lot a
couple of times a day he wanted to be able to see your parking
sticker so he didn't have to get out of his little miniature
truck. Getting out of his truck interfered with him getting back
to his bottle of whiskey sooner.

On 8/26/2017 12:47 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 11:47:15 AM UTC-4, Nancy Young wrote:

>> My name isn't on either car. Just because I didn't sign the papers
>> doesn't mean I wasn't a major factor in what car we buy. Dealers have
>> learned to be nice to the wife.
>
> Both of our cars are titled in both of our names.
>
> When I go to buy a car, I make the first reconnaissance by myself. I
> decide what I want. (I borrow my husband's car so that they don't have
> a clear idea of what I want to trade in.)
>
> I bring my husband on the second trip so that he can provide his opinion.
> That second trip is generally the one where I say "I'll take it".

I always loathed car shopping so when we each had our own car, I'd
pick out what I wanted and he would go buy it. I don't have a
great excuse except dealers used to talk down to me or insist I
wanted an automatic, so aggravating.

Then he was the one commuting and I worked from home, so he'd buy
his new cars by himself. It has just worked out he always signs the
papers. Doesn't bother me either way.

nancy

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 14:37:23 -0600, graham > wrote:

>On 2017-08-26 2:30 PM, wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 12:59:42 -0700 (PDT), "
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 1:57:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I can do it easily with my little car but most often I reverse into
>>>> parking spots, people always seem surprised but I would much rather
>>>> come back to drive out of the parking spot no hassle.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Thank you, thank you! I absolutely HATE backing out of a spot and
>>> will do my darnedest to back into a spot. It never fails on the
>>> rare occasion that I do have to back out of a spot some idiot
>>> decides at just that moment to walk behind my vehicle. No matter
>>> that I've looked left and right, behind me, checked all three mirrors
>>> and repeated those steps again. Do my best imitation of Linda Blair
>>> in the "Exorcist" and BAM! There's some squirrel right behind me
>>> and 99% of the time they're on a cell phone.
>>>
>>> GRRRRRRRRRRR!
>>
>> Quite! I have a Mazda 2 so it's small and if two SUVs or trucks park
>> next to me, I am much better off heading out front first
>>
>As Alberta doesn't have front number plates, you must drive into the
>spot in any city owned lot, otherwise they ticket you.

Never thought of that, in NS we don't have front plates either

On 2017-08-26 3:03 PM, wrote:
> On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 3:37:28 PM UTC-5, graham wrote:
>>
>> As Alberta doesn't have front number plates, you must drive into the
>> spot in any city owned lot, otherwise they ticket you.
>>
>>
> We don't have front license plates here either, but it makes no
> difference if you pull in or back in as long as you are between
> the lines. Is someone driving around all the time checking plates?
>
We don't have parking meters any more so if you park in pay areas on the
street, you either pay at a machine - keying in the zone # and your car
#, or with a cellphone account. Same in the city owned lots.
They have cars mounted with cameras that drive by and automatically send
your car# to the parking computer which checks to see if you've paid and
if you haven't, or have run past your time, it automatically sends you a
parking ticket. So if you have backed into the space in the lot, the
camera can't record your info and you get ticketed.
It's a system developed in Calgary and it replaces the old parking
meters that were constantly being broken into by criminals.

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 5:04:08 PM UTC-4, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 8/26/2017 12:47 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 11:47:15 AM UTC-4, Nancy Young wrote:
>
> >> My name isn't on either car. Just because I didn't sign the papers
> >> doesn't mean I wasn't a major factor in what car we buy. Dealers have
> >> learned to be nice to the wife.
> >
> > Both of our cars are titled in both of our names.
> >
> > When I go to buy a car, I make the first reconnaissance by myself. I
> > decide what I want. (I borrow my husband's car so that they don't have
> > a clear idea of what I want to trade in.)
> >
> > I bring my husband on the second trip so that he can provide his opinion.
> > That second trip is generally the one where I say "I'll take it".
>
> I always loathed car shopping so when we each had our own car, I'd
> pick out what I wanted and he would go buy it. I don't have a
> great excuse except dealers used to talk down to me or insist I
> wanted an automatic, so aggravating.

That must have been quite a while ago. Or perhaps I seem more
physically and psychologically imposing than you. If salesmen
**** me off, I bring out my really big vocabulary. It tends to
make them feel like children.

Also, I ask them stuff like "what's the ground clearance" (oddly,
very few of them know), and "what's the spare--full size or miniature?"
(My current SUV has a full-size spare slung under the chassis; I doubt
I'm strong enough to drag it out of there, anyway.)

> Then he was the one commuting and I worked from home, so he'd buy
> his new cars by himself. It has just worked out he always signs the
> papers. Doesn't bother me either way.

Huh. I wondered about that. Not that I expect divorce or anything,
but I like the feeling of security that comes with having my name on
the title.

Cindy Hamilton

On 2017-08-26 3:40 PM, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Sat 26 Aug 2017 01:37:23p, graham told us...
>
>> On 2017-08-26 2:30 PM, wrote:
>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 12:59:42 -0700 (PDT),
>>> " > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 1:57:34 PM UTC-5,
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I can do it easily with my little car but most often I reverse
>>>>> into parking spots, people always seem surprised but I would
>>>>> much rather come back to drive out of the parking spot no
>>>>> hassle.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Thank you, thank you! I absolutely HATE backing out of a spot
>>>> and will do my darnedest to back into a spot. It never fails on
>>>> the rare occasion that I do have to back out of a spot some
>>>> idiot decides at just that moment to walk behind my vehicle. No
>>>> matter that I've looked left and right, behind me, checked all
>>>> three mirrors and repeated those steps again. Do my best
>>>> imitation of Linda Blair in the "Exorcist" and BAM! There's
>>>> some squirrel right behind me and 99% of the time they're on a
>>>> cell phone.
>>>>
>>>> GRRRRRRRRRRR!
>>>
>>> Quite! I have a Mazda 2 so it's small and if two SUVs or trucks
>>> park next to me, I am much better off heading out front first
>>>
>> As Alberta doesn't have front number plates, you must drive into
>> the spot in any city owned lot, otherwise they ticket you.
>>
>
> AZ doesn't have front number plates either, but there's no law on the
> books regarding what direction you park.
>
It matters only in city-owned lots.

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 21:46:42 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Sat 26 Aug 2017 01:54:21p, Nancy Young told us...
>
>> On 8/26/2017 11:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 8/26/2017 11:46 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>>>> My name isn't on either car.Â* Just because I didn't sign the
>>>> papers doesn't mean I wasn't a major factor in what car we
>>>> buy.Â* Dealers have learned to be nice to the wife.
>>
>>> True.Â* My wife does not care about the engine or optional wheel
>>> size, but she has picked out or at least approved the color.Â*
>>> She has not driven in a few years but still likes to ride in
>>> comfort so she wants all the goodies too.
>>
>> I've turned over the color choice, for some reason he always wants
>> a black car anymore. But it will have 4 doors, and 6 cylinders.
>> That tends to come with the toys I like, too. He doesn't get his
>> two doors and I, regrettably, don't get my stick shift. I had my
>> way on that for years so it's his choice now.
>>
>> nancy
>
>Fortunately David and I agree on all things car related, and neither of
>us ever have wanted a black car.

That is such a relief!

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 5:00:42 PM UTC-5, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> On Sat 26 Aug 2017 02:48:34p, graham told us...
>
> > We don't have parking meters any more so if you park in pay areas
> > on the street, you either pay at a machine - keying in the zone #
> > and your car #, or with a cellphone account. Same in the city
> > owned lots. They have cars mounted with cameras that drive by and
> > automatically send your car# to the parking computer which checks
> > to see if you've paid and if you haven't, or have run past your
> > time, it automatically sends you a parking ticket. So if you have
> > backed into the space in the lot, the camera can't record your
> > info and you get ticketed. It's a system developed in Calgary and
> > it replaces the old parking meters that were constantly being
> > broken into by criminals.
> >
> >
> Hmm... Very sophisticated. We have nothing like that. We still
> have meteres on the street and centrally located pedestals with a
> slot for each parking space where you deposit money.
>
>
Same here.

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 9:05:13 AM UTC-10, Ding - Dong Daddy wrote:
> On Saturday, 26 August 2017 10:31:03 UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 8/26/2017 10:34 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 9:41:43 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >
> > >>
> > >> If you go back to the 50's and even into the 60's, many women did not
> > >> drive. One car was sufficient and dad took it to work. Rarely did a
> > >> woman actually buy a car. Now, almost half the new car buyers are women.
> > >
> > > About half the population are women, so that's about right.
> > >
> > > I'm considerably younger than you; all my friends' mothers drove. In
> > > my generation, both sexes considered getting their driver's license
> > > an important rite of passage.
> >
> > > Cindy Hamilton
> > >
> >
> > That rite of passage is fading. My brother got his license the first
> > Saturday after his 16th birthday, I got mine about two weeks after
> > mine. My now wife was probably 6 months, but one younger sister never did.
> >
> > My daughter's new husband has an 18 yo son and has no inclination to get
> > his license yet. He just got a mediocre job in walking distance. Only
> > looked for a job because they turned his phone off.
> >
> > Many teens are opting to wait these days. Phones and video games are
> > more important than cars.
>
> Remember when we were kids and "new car time" rolled around every fall, it was almost as thrilling as Christmas or any other fun holiday. Now younger folk regard vehicles as "appliances", like a microwave or toaster oven. They are thrilled by new phones and social media, not new cars so much...
>
> --
> Best
> Greg -->> aka "old fogey"

People in the future won't believe that American cars used to change in appearance every year back in the old days and people used to buy cars on a yearly basis. Say, wait a minute, I can't believe it either!

On 8/26/2017 5:03 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
>
> I always loathed car shopping so when we each had our own car, I'd
> pick out what I wanted and he would go buy it. I don't have a
> great excuse except dealers used to talk down to me or insist I
> wanted an automatic, so aggravating.
>
(snippage)
>
> nancy

I've run into that situation, as you well know. Stop showing me
automatics! I told you I want a manual transmission, why are you
wasting my time?!

Jill

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 15:48:34 -0600, graham > wrote:

>On 2017-08-26 3:03 PM, wrote:
>> On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 3:37:28 PM UTC-5, graham wrote:
>>>
>>> As Alberta doesn't have front number plates, you must drive into the
>>> spot in any city owned lot, otherwise they ticket you.
>>>
>>>
>> We don't have front license plates here either, but it makes no
>> difference if you pull in or back in as long as you are between
>> the lines. Is someone driving around all the time checking plates?
>>
>We don't have parking meters any more so if you park in pay areas on the
>street, you either pay at a machine - keying in the zone # and your car
>#, or with a cellphone account. Same in the city owned lots.
>They have cars mounted with cameras that drive by and automatically send
>your car# to the parking computer which checks to see if you've paid and
>if you haven't, or have run past your time, it automatically sends you a
>parking ticket. So if you have backed into the space in the lot, the
>camera can't record your info and you get ticketed.
>It's a system developed in Calgary and it replaces the old parking
>meters that were constantly being broken into by criminals.

That makes sense. Downtown they have meters, but I rarely go downtown
these days. When I went down for the Parade of Sail I took a bus
which went from outside here all the way to the ferry terminal. No
parking probs and since it was Tuesday, seniors travel free on the
bus! I didn't know that when I got on the bus, nice surprise. Not
very often the city treats us to anything.