" wrote:
>
> But December may come and go and I might still be driving my
> 1995 SUV. All this will depend on if the dealership and I
> can come to terms on the final sale price.

And I wish you luck with that. Hope it works out.

"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> Cheri wrote:
>>
>> We worked hard at menial jobs for many years,
>> raised our own kids without government assistance, and paid our own way
>> as
>> we went. We didn't buy things we couldn't afford, and we didn't live with
>> our parents until we were practically middle aged while buying new
>> expensive
>> gadgets ever year or so when last years model still works fine.
>
> Here's one of those annoying "I worked so hard all my life"
> threads. splat.


I hope you feel better soon.

Cheri

"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> Cheri wrote:
>>
>> You should certainly treat yourself to the car you want, you've earned
>> it!
>
> Oh so splat, ms.touchie-feelie. lol
> She's only earned it if she has saved up for it.
> (don't forget, "worked hard all my life."

I hope you feel better soon.

Cheri

"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> " wrote:
>>
>> I'm presently driving an SUV but would love to
>> treat myself to something that is butt and bone soothing.
>
> Forget the new cars. I once owned a 197-something Mercury Marquis
> Brougham. Such a LONG front hood and when you went out on the
> highway, that thing cruised so nicely. Almost felt like you were
> floating above the highway.
>
> They sure don't build cars like that anymore.


Yeah, the old "back in my day" post.....splat. LOL

Cheri

On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 12:33:19 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 3:32:27 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 8:13:18 PM UTC-10, Cheri wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe you did, but we didn't. We worked hard at menial jobs for many years,
> > > raised our own kids without government assistance, and paid our own way as
> > > we went. We didn't buy things we couldn't afford, and we didn't live with
> > > our parents until we were practically middle aged while buying new expensive
> > > gadgets ever year or so when last years model still works fine.
> > >
> > > Cheri
> >
> > Your experience was the same as yours. That's not too relevant. What was the price of housing when your parents bought a house. Less than $10K? How much was it when you left school? $60K? How much was a house when you turned 30? Maybe $120K. Currently, the houses here are going for around $800K. The cost for education and health care has exploded in the last 30 years. Something tells me that you won't be able to afford these things doing menial jobs.
>
> The median house price in Michigan is $169,900. The median income
> is $51,084.
>
> The median house price in Hawaii is $606,000. The median income is
> $73,486. Maybe "paradise" isn't all it's cracked up to be.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

You have to pay a price wherever you live in this world. We're well aware of the price we pay.

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:10:39 -0400, Gary > wrote:

" wrote:
>>
>> Three doors up from them was another Laotian family that also
>> worked at the same meat processing plant. The Friday after
>> Thanksgiving one year I was leaving my house and spied something
>> large and white walking in their fenced backyard. I walked up the
>> alley to see what it was and it was very large white turkey. I
>> guess they really did want a fresh turkey; anyway, when I returned
>> home Sunday afternoon the turkey was history.
>
>Hi Bruce! :-D

Throw them over the wall!

"Ding - Dong Daddy" wrote:
>Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>Ding - Dong Daddy wrote:
>> >Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> >
>> >> IMO. the minimum should be $10 today. The idea of $15 minimum is just
>> >> too much for many industries. You can get there with a little
>> >> education and ambition though.

I don't think any fast food burger flipper is worth more than $3/hr.

>> > Some believe that businesses have loads of extra cash that can easily
>> > absorb the cost of a raise of a few bucks in the minimum wage - they
>> > don't. And remember, businesses are responsible to shareholders...
>>
>> I've taken people through our plant and some have remarked "you guys
>> must make a lot of money" then I tell them the gas bill for last month
>> was $30,000 and they are stunned. Not to mention rent of $20k, and on
>> and on.
>>
>> We want a $15 or more minimum wage but we also want the $1 menu at our
>> favorite fast food place.
>> We complain about greedy corporations and complain if our 401k does not
>> grow 10% or more.
>> We complain about goods from China but will spend hours seeking out the
>> best price on a new TV.
>> Quote cliche about having our cake, etc.
>
>Yup...and still, all things considered, this is the best time ever to be
>alive in history...

Wages should be whatever an individual can negotiate based on their
marketable skills... I find the concept of minimum wage irksome, and
tends to keep people at the economic bottom by removing incentive. Why
should an employer have the incentive to pay more when the employee
hasn't the incentive to produce more? I think burger flippers should
have to pay to be at that type of occupation it keeps them warm in
winter and cool in summer... without that burger flipping they'd be
homeless. At $15 an hour watch how fast burgers will be dispensed
from a vending machine at a corner kiosk.
http://newatlas.com/hamburger-machine/25159/

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 06:41:11 -0700, "Cheri" >
wrote:

> wrote in message
...
>>>
>> Thank you! I don't feel like I had it easy either. I've been in my
>> house 29 years and got the original bathroom to this 90+ year old house
>> remodeled last year. Whenever I bought anything major I tried my
>> best to get a free financing deal if paid off in X number of months.
>> Then prayed nothing else would break for a long, long time. If I
>> needed anything major I scoured the papers for sales and/or special
>> financing. I have lived frugally in that I didn't throw my money
>> around like it grew on trees but I have lived well. No complaints
>> there.
>>
>> I'm also driving a vehicle I've owned for 20 years and am toying
>> with the idea of a new car in December. My present vehicle is
>> running just fine but I would like one last new, luxury vehicle
>> in my lifetime. I'm presently driving an SUV but would love to
>> treat myself to something that is butt and bone soothing.
>
>You should certainly treat yourself to the car you want, you've earned it!

You don't know that. She may have ruined her entire family with her
gambling habit.

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 14:53:07 -0400, wrote:

>"Ding - Dong Daddy" wrote:
>>Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>Ding - Dong Daddy wrote:
>>> >Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> IMO. the minimum should be $10 today. The idea of $15 minimum is just
>>> >> too much for many industries. You can get there with a little
>>> >> education and ambition though.
>
>I don't think any fast food burger flipper is worth more than $3/hr.

If you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to live off that, at
least modestly.

"Bruce" > wrote in message tryng to be cute about my
response to itsjoannotjoann

> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 06:41:11 -0700, "Cheri" >

>>You should certainly treat yourself to the car you want, you've earned it!
>
> You don't know that. She may have ruined her entire family with her
> gambling habit.


I take people at their word here, except for the known liars/nym-shifters
etc.

Cheri

On 9/13/2017 9:55 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 21:29:25 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 9/13/2017 8:41 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 17:33:36 -0700 (PDT), "
>>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> You are living in a dream world. I would object very loudly if I had
>>>> to pay up to 80% of my salary so I can provide housing to some lazy
>>>> character that wants everybody else to provide him a place to crash.
>>
>>>
>>> I don't know of any country in our (western) world, where people have
>>> to pay 80% (or 70% or 60% etc) of their salary in taxes.
>>>
>>
>> Some get rather high, over 50%. Then add in taxes on goods. cost of
>> utilities
>> http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/c...the-world.html
>> Sweden has the second highest income tax rate in the world, and the
>> highest in Europe, with a 56.6% deducted from annual income. Though
>> Swedes may be taxed heavily, sales on residential properties are
>> exempted from taxation there.
>
> If you make under USD 54,500 in Sweden, you pay 31%. If you make more,
> you pay 51-56% over the excess. So you can't say the Swedes are paying
> 56.6%.
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden#Income_tax>
>
> And it's also about what you get for your tax payments. Are their
> roads better than in the US? Is their healthcare better? Is their
> elderly care better? Is their crime less?
>

Difficult to make true comparisons. While taxes are higher, it often
includes healthcare that in the US is paid for by the individual or his
employer. A gallon of gas in the US is about $2.50 now and in Europe it
is often triple due to other taxes. We have sales tax, they have VAT.
I don't know what they do for property tax.
Published tax rates mean little unless you study the whole system.

On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 9:43:05 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>
> " wrote:
> >
> > But December may come and go and I might still be driving my
> > 1995 SUV. All this will depend on if the dealership and I
> > can come to terms on the final sale price.
>
> And I wish you luck with that. Hope it works out.
>
>
Thank you and me, too!

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:34:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 9/13/2017 9:55 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 21:29:25 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/13/2017 8:41 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 17:33:36 -0700 (PDT), "
>>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> You are living in a dream world. I would object very loudly if I had
>>>>> to pay up to 80% of my salary so I can provide housing to some lazy
>>>>> character that wants everybody else to provide him a place to crash.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't know of any country in our (western) world, where people have
>>>> to pay 80% (or 70% or 60% etc) of their salary in taxes.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Some get rather high, over 50%. Then add in taxes on goods. cost of
>>> utilities
>>> http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/c...the-world.html
>>> Sweden has the second highest income tax rate in the world, and the
>>> highest in Europe, with a 56.6% deducted from annual income. Though
>>> Swedes may be taxed heavily, sales on residential properties are
>>> exempted from taxation there.
>>
>> If you make under USD 54,500 in Sweden, you pay 31%. If you make more,
>> you pay 51-56% over the excess. So you can't say the Swedes are paying
>> 56.6%.
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden#Income_tax>
>>
>> And it's also about what you get for your tax payments. Are their
>> roads better than in the US? Is their healthcare better? Is their
>> elderly care better? Is their crime less?
>>
>
>Difficult to make true comparisons. While taxes are higher, it often
>includes healthcare that in the US is paid for by the individual or his
>employer. A gallon of gas in the US is about $2.50 now and in Europe it
>is often triple due to other taxes. We have sales tax, they have VAT.
>I don't know what they do for property tax.
>Published tax rates mean little unless you study the whole system.

I think Swedes pay more taxes but their country works better. You have
a bigger army, though.

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 12:19:29 -0700, "Cheri" >
wrote:

>"Bruce" > wrote in message tryng to be cute about my
>response to itsjoannotjoann
>
>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 06:41:11 -0700, "Cheri" >
>
>>>You should certainly treat yourself to the car you want, you've earned it!
>>
>> You don't know that. She may have ruined her entire family with her
>> gambling habit.
>
>
>I take people at their word here, except for the known liars/nym-shifters
>etc.

If I had a huge gambling problem, I probably wouldn't talk about it in
rfc.

On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 1:53:34 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
>
> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 06:41:11 -0700, "Cheri" >
> wrote:
>
> >You should certainly treat yourself to the car you want, you've earned it!
>
> You don't know that. She may have ruined her entire family with her
> gambling habit.
>
>
Hahahahaaaaaaa, no! No gambling habit here nor drugs.

"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 12:19:29 -0700, "Cheri" >
> wrote:
>
>>"Bruce" > wrote in message tryng to be cute about my
>>response to itsjoannotjoann
>>
>>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 06:41:11 -0700, "Cheri" >
>>
>>>>You should certainly treat yourself to the car you want, you've earned
>>>>it!
>>>
>>> You don't know that. She may have ruined her entire family with her
>>> gambling habit.
>>
>>
>>I take people at their word here, except for the known liars/nym-shifters
>>etc.
>
> If I had a huge gambling problem, I probably wouldn't talk about it in
> rfc.


If I did, this is the place I would talk about it, a few arm chair
therapists here, experts on everything from personal tastes to how things
should be done on every subject.

Cheri

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 13:01:00 -0700, "Cheri" >
wrote:

>"Bruce" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 12:19:29 -0700, "Cheri" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Bruce" > wrote in message tryng to be cute about my
>>>response to itsjoannotjoann
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 06:41:11 -0700, "Cheri" >
>>>
>>>>>You should certainly treat yourself to the car you want, you've earned
>>>>>it!
>>>>
>>>> You don't know that. She may have ruined her entire family with her
>>>> gambling habit.
>>>
>>>
>>>I take people at their word here, except for the known liars/nym-shifters
>>>etc.
>>
>> If I had a huge gambling problem, I probably wouldn't talk about it in
>> rfc.
>
>
>If I did, this is the place I would talk about it, a few arm chair
>therapists here, experts on everything from personal tastes to how things
>should be done on every subject.

That's true. You can't find a bigger collection of experts on
everything

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 12:48:47 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

>On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 1:53:34 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 06:41:11 -0700, "Cheri" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >You should certainly treat yourself to the car you want, you've earned it!
>>
>> You don't know that. She may have ruined her entire family with her
>> gambling habit.
>>
>>
>Hahahahaaaaaaa, no! No gambling habit here nor drugs.

Lol, ok.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 05:45:58 +1000, Bruce >
wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:34:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>>On 9/13/2017 9:55 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 21:29:25 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/13/2017 8:41 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 17:33:36 -0700 (PDT), "
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> You are living in a dream world. I would object very loudly if I had
>>>>>> to pay up to 80% of my salary so I can provide housing to some lazy
>>>>>> character that wants everybody else to provide him a place to crash.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know of any country in our (western) world, where people have
>>>>> to pay 80% (or 70% or 60% etc) of their salary in taxes.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Some get rather high, over 50%. Then add in taxes on goods. cost of
>>>> utilities
>>>> http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/c...the-world.html
>>>> Sweden has the second highest income tax rate in the world, and the
>>>> highest in Europe, with a 56.6% deducted from annual income. Though
>>>> Swedes may be taxed heavily, sales on residential properties are
>>>> exempted from taxation there.
>>>
>>> If you make under USD 54,500 in Sweden, you pay 31%. If you make more,
>>> you pay 51-56% over the excess. So you can't say the Swedes are paying
>>> 56.6%.
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden#Income_tax>
>>>
>>> And it's also about what you get for your tax payments. Are their
>>> roads better than in the US? Is their healthcare better? Is their
>>> elderly care better? Is their crime less?
>>>
>>
>>Difficult to make true comparisons. While taxes are higher, it often
>>includes healthcare that in the US is paid for by the individual or his
>>employer. A gallon of gas in the US is about $2.50 now and in Europe it
>>is often triple due to other taxes. We have sales tax, they have VAT.
>>I don't know what they do for property tax.
>>Published tax rates mean little unless you study the whole system.
>
>I think Swedes pay more taxes but their country works better. You have
>a bigger army, though.

I wouldn't want to live there, though.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ...

On 9/13/2017 9:55 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 21:29:25 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 9/13/2017 8:41 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 17:33:36 -0700 (PDT), "
>>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> You are living in a dream world. I would object very loudly if I had
>>>> to pay up to 80% of my salary so I can provide housing to some lazy
>>>> character that wants everybody else to provide him a place to crash.
>>
>>>
>>> I don't know of any country in our (western) world, where people have
>>> to pay 80% (or 70% or 60% etc) of their salary in taxes.
>>>
>>
>> Some get rather high, over 50%. Then add in taxes on goods. cost of
>> utilities
>> http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/c...the-world.html
>> Sweden has the second highest income tax rate in the world, and the
>> highest in Europe, with a 56.6% deducted from annual income. Though
>> Swedes may be taxed heavily, sales on residential properties are
>> exempted from taxation there.
>
> If you make under USD 54,500 in Sweden, you pay 31%. If you make more,
> you pay 51-56% over the excess. So you can't say the Swedes are paying
> 56.6%.
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden#Income_tax>
>
> And it's also about what you get for your tax payments. Are their
> roads better than in the US? Is their healthcare better? Is their
> elderly care better? Is their crime less?
>

Difficult to make true comparisons. While taxes are higher, it often
includes healthcare that in the US is paid for by the individual or his
employer. A gallon of gas in the US is about $2.50 now and in Europe it
is often triple due to other taxes. We have sales tax, they have VAT.
I don't know what they do for property tax.
Published tax rates mean little unless you study the whole system.

==

ATM ours is £1.23 per litre.



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

"Cheri" wrote in message news
"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 12:19:29 -0700, "Cheri" >
> wrote:
>
>>"Bruce" > wrote in message tryng to be cute about my
>>response to itsjoannotjoann
>>
>>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 06:41:11 -0700, "Cheri" >
>>
>>>>You should certainly treat yourself to the car you want, you've earned
>>>>it!
>>>
>>> You don't know that. She may have ruined her entire family with her
>>> gambling habit.
>>
>>
>>I take people at their word here, except for the known liars/nym-shifters
>>etc.
>
> If I had a huge gambling problem, I probably wouldn't talk about it in
> rfc.


If I did, this is the place I would talk about it, a few arm chair
therapists here, experts on everything from personal tastes to how things
should be done on every subject.

Cheri

==

Ahh you have noticed that too)))



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 6:21:00 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote:
> >
> > Without a doubt there will be taxes to pay. It is my belief that
> > people will find that to be an acceptable trade-off if we could
> > assure housing, education, and healthcare, for every citizen.
> > Mostly, the old folks will raise a squawk.
> >
> >
> You are living in a dream world. I would object very loudly if I had
> to pay up to 80% of my salary so I can provide housing to some lazy
> character that wants everybody else to provide him a place to crash.
> If you want a college education work and pay for it. If that means it
> takes you 7 years to get your degree, so be it. If it takes longer
> then get another part-time job.
>
> No it won't just be the old folks that will raise a squawk. It will
> be working people with good jobs seeing their taxes going to lazy
> people who are always looking for a handout.

That's what happened with healthcare insurance.

--

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:36:09 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:

wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>> On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 6:21:00 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote:
>> >
>> > Without a doubt there will be taxes to pay. It is my belief that
>> > people will find that to be an acceptable trade-off if we could
>> > assure housing, education, and healthcare, for every citizen.
>> > Mostly, the old folks will raise a squawk.
>> >
>> >
>> You are living in a dream world. I would object very loudly if I had
>> to pay up to 80% of my salary so I can provide housing to some lazy
>> character that wants everybody else to provide him a place to crash.
>> If you want a college education work and pay for it. If that means it
>> takes you 7 years to get your degree, so be it. If it takes longer
>> then get another part-time job.
>>
>> No it won't just be the old folks that will raise a squawk. It will
>> be working people with good jobs seeing their taxes going to lazy
>> people who are always looking for a handout.
>
>That's what happened with healthcare insurance.

In a civilised, rich country, everybody should have good healthcare
insurance.

On 9/14/2017 2:33 AM, wrote:

>
> I'm also driving a vehicle I've owned for 20 years and am toying
> with the idea of a new car in December. My present vehicle is
> running just fine but I would like one last new, luxury vehicle
> in my lifetime. I'm presently driving an SUV but would love to
> treat myself to something that is butt and bone soothing.
>

Go for it. You can reach your destination is a cheap compact, but it is
much nicer riding in a luxury model. Hould be some good deals on the
2017 about now.

On 9/14/2017 3:00 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 14:53:07 -0400, wrote:
>
>> "Ding - Dong Daddy" wrote:
>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> Ding - Dong Daddy wrote:
>>>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> IMO. the minimum should be $10 today. The idea of $15 minimum is just
>>>>>> too much for many industries. You can get there with a little
>>>>>> education and ambition though.
>>
>> I don't think any fast food burger flipper is worth more than $3/hr.
>
> If you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to live off that, at
> least modestly.
>


In most jobs, yes, but there has always been the entry level jobs filled
by teenagers in school. Part time, little effort required. It is a
learning experience and shold actually give the kids incentive to do
better.

On 9/14/2017 3:45 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:34:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 9/13/2017 9:55 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 21:29:25 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/13/2017 8:41 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 17:33:36 -0700 (PDT), "
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> You are living in a dream world. I would object very loudly if I had
>>>>>> to pay up to 80% of my salary so I can provide housing to some lazy
>>>>>> character that wants everybody else to provide him a place to crash.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know of any country in our (western) world, where people have
>>>>> to pay 80% (or 70% or 60% etc) of their salary in taxes.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Some get rather high, over 50%. Then add in taxes on goods. cost of
>>>> utilities
>>>> http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/c...the-world.html
>>>> Sweden has the second highest income tax rate in the world, and the
>>>> highest in Europe, with a 56.6% deducted from annual income. Though
>>>> Swedes may be taxed heavily, sales on residential properties are
>>>> exempted from taxation there.
>>>
>>> If you make under USD 54,500 in Sweden, you pay 31%. If you make more,
>>> you pay 51-56% over the excess. So you can't say the Swedes are paying
>>> 56.6%.
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden#Income_tax>
>>>
>>> And it's also about what you get for your tax payments. Are their
>>> roads better than in the US? Is their healthcare better? Is their
>>> elderly care better? Is their crime less?
>>>
>>
>> Difficult to make true comparisons. While taxes are higher, it often
>> includes healthcare that in the US is paid for by the individual or his
>> employer. A gallon of gas in the US is about $2.50 now and in Europe it
>> is often triple due to other taxes. We have sales tax, they have VAT.
>> I don't know what they do for property tax.
>> Published tax rates mean little unless you study the whole system.
>
> I think Swedes pay more taxes but their country works better. You have
> a bigger army, though.
>

Truer comparison my be hours worked to buy a shirt, shoes, TV, etc.
Lifestyle and happiness are factors too. US is generally stingy on
vacation time.

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:54:02 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 9/14/2017 3:45 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:34:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/13/2017 9:55 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 21:29:25 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/13/2017 8:41 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 17:33:36 -0700 (PDT), "
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are living in a dream world. I would object very loudly if I had
>>>>>>> to pay up to 80% of my salary so I can provide housing to some lazy
>>>>>>> character that wants everybody else to provide him a place to crash.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know of any country in our (western) world, where people have
>>>>>> to pay 80% (or 70% or 60% etc) of their salary in taxes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Some get rather high, over 50%. Then add in taxes on goods. cost of
>>>>> utilities
>>>>> http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/c...the-world.html
>>>>> Sweden has the second highest income tax rate in the world, and the
>>>>> highest in Europe, with a 56.6% deducted from annual income. Though
>>>>> Swedes may be taxed heavily, sales on residential properties are
>>>>> exempted from taxation there.
>>>>
>>>> If you make under USD 54,500 in Sweden, you pay 31%. If you make more,
>>>> you pay 51-56% over the excess. So you can't say the Swedes are paying
>>>> 56.6%.
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden#Income_tax>
>>>>
>>>> And it's also about what you get for your tax payments. Are their
>>>> roads better than in the US? Is their healthcare better? Is their
>>>> elderly care better? Is their crime less?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Difficult to make true comparisons. While taxes are higher, it often
>>> includes healthcare that in the US is paid for by the individual or his
>>> employer. A gallon of gas in the US is about $2.50 now and in Europe it
>>> is often triple due to other taxes. We have sales tax, they have VAT.
>>> I don't know what they do for property tax.
>>> Published tax rates mean little unless you study the whole system.
>>
>> I think Swedes pay more taxes but their country works better. You have
>> a bigger army, though.
>>
>
>Truer comparison my be hours worked to buy a shirt, shoes, TV, etc.

That's very materialistic. I'd rate higher if I like the work, how
much time off I have, how good healthcare or elderly care are, etc.

I'd rather live in the southern US, though. The Swedish climate is not
for me

>Lifestyle and happiness are factors too. US is generally stingy on
>vacation time.

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:52:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 9/14/2017 3:00 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 14:53:07 -0400, wrote:
>>
>>> "Ding - Dong Daddy" wrote:
>>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>> Ding - Dong Daddy wrote:
>>>>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMO. the minimum should be $10 today. The idea of $15 minimum is just
>>>>>>> too much for many industries. You can get there with a little
>>>>>>> education and ambition though.
>>>
>>> I don't think any fast food burger flipper is worth more than $3/hr.
>>
>> If you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to live off that, at
>> least modestly.
>>
>
>
>In most jobs, yes, but there has always been the entry level jobs filled
>by teenagers in school. Part time, little effort required. It is a
>learning experience and shold actually give the kids incentive to do
>better.

I agree, but that's part time. If it's 40 hours a week and permanent,
you should be able to live of it. Some people don't have the brain to
do anything more than flip burgers or collect garbage.

I don't mean buy a house, buy a new car and holiday in the Bahamas,
just basic living.

On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 7:46:45 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> On 9/14/2017 2:33 AM, wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm also driving a vehicle I've owned for 20 years and am toying
> > with the idea of a new car in December. My present vehicle is
> > running just fine but I would like one last new, luxury vehicle
> > in my lifetime. I'm presently driving an SUV but would love to
> > treat myself to something that is butt and bone soothing.
> >
>
> Go for it. You can reach your destination is a cheap compact, but it is
> much nicer riding in a luxury model. Should be some good deals on the
> 2017 about now.
>
>
A hundred years ago I had a Cadillac Coupe de Ville and I still miss
the ride, handling, size, and comfort thus the desire for another
luxury automobile.

Yes, I've seen some mark downs for Labor Day but I'm going to hold
out for mid to late December. I'm hoping they'll be more receptive
to offers, then again they may just show me the door.

"Bruce" wrote in message ...

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:54:02 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 9/14/2017 3:45 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:34:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/13/2017 9:55 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 21:29:25 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/13/2017 8:41 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 17:33:36 -0700 (PDT), "
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are living in a dream world. I would object very loudly if I
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> to pay up to 80% of my salary so I can provide housing to some lazy
>>>>>>> character that wants everybody else to provide him a place to crash.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know of any country in our (western) world, where people have
>>>>>> to pay 80% (or 70% or 60% etc) of their salary in taxes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Some get rather high, over 50%. Then add in taxes on goods. cost of
>>>>> utilities
>>>>> http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/c...the-world.html
>>>>> Sweden has the second highest income tax rate in the world, and the
>>>>> highest in Europe, with a 56.6% deducted from annual income. Though
>>>>> Swedes may be taxed heavily, sales on residential properties are
>>>>> exempted from taxation there.
>>>>
>>>> If you make under USD 54,500 in Sweden, you pay 31%. If you make more,
>>>> you pay 51-56% over the excess. So you can't say the Swedes are paying
>>>> 56.6%.
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden#Income_tax>
>>>>
>>>> And it's also about what you get for your tax payments. Are their
>>>> roads better than in the US? Is their healthcare better? Is their
>>>> elderly care better? Is their crime less?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Difficult to make true comparisons. While taxes are higher, it often
>>> includes healthcare that in the US is paid for by the individual or his
>>> employer. A gallon of gas in the US is about $2.50 now and in Europe it
>>> is often triple due to other taxes. We have sales tax, they have VAT.
>>> I don't know what they do for property tax.
>>> Published tax rates mean little unless you study the whole system.
>>
>> I think Swedes pay more taxes but their country works better. You have
>> a bigger army, though.
>>
>
>Truer comparison my be hours worked to buy a shirt, shoes, TV, etc.

That's very materialistic. I'd rate higher if I like the work, how
much time off I have, how good healthcare or elderly care are, etc.

I'd rather live in the southern US, though. The Swedish climate is not
for me

>Lifestyle and happiness are factors too. US is generally stingy on
>vacation time.

==

I take it you are not up to date on Swedish life? It is certainly not
something I would discuss here, but I think you need to do a wee bit of
research.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 09:08:05 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>"Bruce" wrote in message ...
>
>On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:54:02 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>>On 9/14/2017 3:45 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:34:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/13/2017 9:55 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 21:29:25 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/13/2017 8:41 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 17:33:36 -0700 (PDT), "
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are living in a dream world. I would object very loudly if I
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> to pay up to 80% of my salary so I can provide housing to some lazy
>>>>>>>> character that wants everybody else to provide him a place to crash.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know of any country in our (western) world, where people have
>>>>>>> to pay 80% (or 70% or 60% etc) of their salary in taxes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some get rather high, over 50%. Then add in taxes on goods. cost of
>>>>>> utilities
>>>>>> http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/c...the-world.html
>>>>>> Sweden has the second highest income tax rate in the world, and the
>>>>>> highest in Europe, with a 56.6% deducted from annual income. Though
>>>>>> Swedes may be taxed heavily, sales on residential properties are
>>>>>> exempted from taxation there.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you make under USD 54,500 in Sweden, you pay 31%. If you make more,
>>>>> you pay 51-56% over the excess. So you can't say the Swedes are paying
>>>>> 56.6%.
>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden#Income_tax>
>>>>>
>>>>> And it's also about what you get for your tax payments. Are their
>>>>> roads better than in the US? Is their healthcare better? Is their
>>>>> elderly care better? Is their crime less?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Difficult to make true comparisons. While taxes are higher, it often
>>>> includes healthcare that in the US is paid for by the individual or his
>>>> employer. A gallon of gas in the US is about $2.50 now and in Europe it
>>>> is often triple due to other taxes. We have sales tax, they have VAT.
>>>> I don't know what they do for property tax.
>>>> Published tax rates mean little unless you study the whole system.
>>>
>>> I think Swedes pay more taxes but their country works better. You have
>>> a bigger army, though.
>>>
>>
>>Truer comparison my be hours worked to buy a shirt, shoes, TV, etc.
>
>That's very materialistic. I'd rate higher if I like the work, how
>much time off I have, how good healthcare or elderly care are, etc.
>
>I'd rather live in the southern US, though. The Swedish climate is not
>for me
>
>>Lifestyle and happiness are factors too. US is generally stingy on
>>vacation time.
>
>==
>
>I take it you are not up to date on Swedish life? It is certainly not
>something I would discuss here, but I think you need to do a wee bit of
>research.

You mean they've let in too many refugees? I'd agree with that. But
"higher taxes and higher standard of living" compared to the US is
true for all of western Europe.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:53:42 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Fri 15 Sep 2017 01:08:05a, Ophelia told us...
>
>> I take it you are not up to date on Swedish life? It is certainly
>> not something I would discuss here, but I think you need to do a
>> wee bit of research.
>>
>
>I worked for 11 years at my last job. The work climate was friendly,
>the work was relatively easy, I was provided time to work from home,
>as well as any necessary time off for appointments, etc. The salary
>was competitive within the industry (it was a not for profit
>organization), but I earned considerably more in a previous job. The
>healthcare was largely paid for by the company although I did pay a
>monthly addition. My only real issue was the lack of a pension fund.
>A 401K account was offered, but my salary wasn't enough to warrant
>contributing to it. Fortunately, because of my prior jobs at
>significantly higher pay, my Social Security benefits were at the
>very top of the scale. Vacation time was accrued and was continuous.
>It only maxed out if you exceeded accruing more than 8 weeks
>vacation. Overall, I really can't complain nd it was a great job to
>retire from.

That's anecdotal of course. If you want to make sense, you have to
look at an entire population. You won't do that, because you won't
even read this post. Sleep well

"Bruce" wrote in message ...

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 09:08:05 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>"Bruce" wrote in message
.. .
>
>On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:54:02 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>>On 9/14/2017 3:45 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:34:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/13/2017 9:55 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 21:29:25 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/13/2017 8:41 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 17:33:36 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>> "
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are living in a dream world. I would object very loudly if I
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> to pay up to 80% of my salary so I can provide housing to some lazy
>>>>>>>> character that wants everybody else to provide him a place to
>>>>>>>> crash.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know of any country in our (western) world, where people
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> to pay 80% (or 70% or 60% etc) of their salary in taxes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some get rather high, over 50%. Then add in taxes on goods. cost of
>>>>>> utilities
>>>>>> http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/c...the-world.html
>>>>>> Sweden has the second highest income tax rate in the world, and the
>>>>>> highest in Europe, with a 56.6% deducted from annual income. Though
>>>>>> Swedes may be taxed heavily, sales on residential properties are
>>>>>> exempted from taxation there.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you make under USD 54,500 in Sweden, you pay 31%. If you make more,
>>>>> you pay 51-56% over the excess. So you can't say the Swedes are paying
>>>>> 56.6%.
>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden#Income_tax>
>>>>>
>>>>> And it's also about what you get for your tax payments. Are their
>>>>> roads better than in the US? Is their healthcare better? Is their
>>>>> elderly care better? Is their crime less?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Difficult to make true comparisons. While taxes are higher, it often
>>>> includes healthcare that in the US is paid for by the individual or his
>>>> employer. A gallon of gas in the US is about $2.50 now and in Europe
>>>> it
>>>> is often triple due to other taxes. We have sales tax, they have VAT.
>>>> I don't know what they do for property tax.
>>>> Published tax rates mean little unless you study the whole system.
>>>
>>> I think Swedes pay more taxes but their country works better. You have
>>> a bigger army, though.
>>>
>>
>>Truer comparison my be hours worked to buy a shirt, shoes, TV, etc.
>
>That's very materialistic. I'd rate higher if I like the work, how
>much time off I have, how good healthcare or elderly care are, etc.
>
>I'd rather live in the southern US, though. The Swedish climate is not
>for me
>
>>Lifestyle and happiness are factors too. US is generally stingy on
>>vacation time.
>
>==
>
>I take it you are not up to date on Swedish life? It is certainly not
>something I would discuss here, but I think you need to do a wee bit of
>research.

You mean they've let in too many refugees? I'd agree with that. But
"higher taxes and higher standard of living" compared to the US is
true for all of western Europe.

==

It is not only that they have let them in ...

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 10:08:07 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>"Bruce" wrote in message ...
>
>On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 09:08:05 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>"Bruce" wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:54:02 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>>On 9/14/2017 3:45 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:34:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/13/2017 9:55 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 21:29:25 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/13/2017 8:41 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 17:33:36 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>> "
>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are living in a dream world. I would object very loudly if I
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> to pay up to 80% of my salary so I can provide housing to some lazy
>>>>>>>>> character that wants everybody else to provide him a place to
>>>>>>>>> crash.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know of any country in our (western) world, where people
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> to pay 80% (or 70% or 60% etc) of their salary in taxes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some get rather high, over 50%. Then add in taxes on goods. cost of
>>>>>>> utilities
>>>>>>> http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/c...the-world.html
>>>>>>> Sweden has the second highest income tax rate in the world, and the
>>>>>>> highest in Europe, with a 56.6% deducted from annual income. Though
>>>>>>> Swedes may be taxed heavily, sales on residential properties are
>>>>>>> exempted from taxation there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you make under USD 54,500 in Sweden, you pay 31%. If you make more,
>>>>>> you pay 51-56% over the excess. So you can't say the Swedes are paying
>>>>>> 56.6%.
>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden#Income_tax>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And it's also about what you get for your tax payments. Are their
>>>>>> roads better than in the US? Is their healthcare better? Is their
>>>>>> elderly care better? Is their crime less?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Difficult to make true comparisons. While taxes are higher, it often
>>>>> includes healthcare that in the US is paid for by the individual or his
>>>>> employer. A gallon of gas in the US is about $2.50 now and in Europe
>>>>> it
>>>>> is often triple due to other taxes. We have sales tax, they have VAT.
>>>>> I don't know what they do for property tax.
>>>>> Published tax rates mean little unless you study the whole system.
>>>>
>>>> I think Swedes pay more taxes but their country works better. You have
>>>> a bigger army, though.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Truer comparison my be hours worked to buy a shirt, shoes, TV, etc.
>>
>>That's very materialistic. I'd rate higher if I like the work, how
>>much time off I have, how good healthcare or elderly care are, etc.
>>
>>I'd rather live in the southern US, though. The Swedish climate is not
>>for me
>>
>>>Lifestyle and happiness are factors too. US is generally stingy on
>>>vacation time.
>>
>>==
>>
>>I take it you are not up to date on Swedish life? It is certainly not
>>something I would discuss here, but I think you need to do a wee bit of
>>research.
>
>You mean they've let in too many refugees? I'd agree with that. But
>"higher taxes and higher standard of living" compared to the US is
>true for all of western Europe.
>
>==
>
>It is not only that they have let them in ...

Yes, I agree, but it's beside the point that in western Europe -UK
included of course- the higher taxes compared to the US lead to a
higher standard of living and a nicer country to live in.

On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 9:08:57 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:52:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> >On 9/14/2017 3:00 PM, Bruce wrote:
> >> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 14:53:07 -0400, wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Ding - Dong Daddy" wrote:
> >>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>>>> Ding - Dong Daddy wrote:
> >>>>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> IMO. the minimum should be $10 today. The idea of $15 minimum is just
> >>>>>>> too much for many industries. You can get there with a little
> >>>>>>> education and ambition though.
> >>>
> >>> I don't think any fast food burger flipper is worth more than $3/hr.
> >>
> >> If you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to live off that, at
> >> least modestly.
> >>
> >
> >
> >In most jobs, yes, but there has always been the entry level jobs filled
> >by teenagers in school. Part time, little effort required. It is a
> >learning experience and shold actually give the kids incentive to do
> >better.
>
> I agree, but that's part time. If it's 40 hours a week and permanent,
> you should be able to live of it. Some people don't have the brain to
> do anything more than flip burgers or collect garbage.

<http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/24/news/economy/trash-workers-high-pay/>

I don't make much more as a programmer than a median-paid garbage truck
driver. Jobs at small, Midwestern tech companies don't pay anything like
those big salaries you hear about in Silicon Valley. Of course, cost
of housing here is about 20% of that in San Jose.

> I don't mean buy a house, buy a new car and holiday in the Bahamas,
> just basic living.

When I was young, I had a secretarial job that paid just a little over
minimum wage. I could not have afforded my own apartment, to buy a
car, etc. I had roommates, got a hand-me-down car from my grandparents,
and watched every penny. When the car died, I took the bus.

Cindy Hamilton

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 03:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 9:08:57 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:52:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>> >On 9/14/2017 3:00 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> >>
>> >> If you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to live off that, at
>> >> least modestly.
>> >>
>> >In most jobs, yes, but there has always been the entry level jobs filled
>> >by teenagers in school. Part time, little effort required. It is a
>> >learning experience and shold actually give the kids incentive to do
>> >better.
>>
>> I agree, but that's part time. If it's 40 hours a week and permanent,
>> you should be able to live of it. Some people don't have the brain to
>> do anything more than flip burgers or collect garbage.
>
><http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/24/news/economy/trash-workers-high-pay/>
>
>I don't make much more as a programmer than a median-paid garbage truck
>driver. Jobs at small, Midwestern tech companies don't pay anything like
>those big salaries you hear about in Silicon Valley. Of course, cost
>of housing here is about 20% of that in San Jose.
>
>> I don't mean buy a house, buy a new car and holiday in the Bahamas,
>> just basic living.
>
>When I was young, I had a secretarial job that paid just a little over
>minimum wage. I could not have afforded my own apartment, to buy a
>car, etc. I had roommates, got a hand-me-down car from my grandparents,
>and watched every penny. When the car died, I took the bus.

I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 11:08:51 +1000, Bruce >
wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:52:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>>On 9/14/2017 3:00 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 14:53:07 -0400, wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Ding - Dong Daddy" wrote:
>>>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>> Ding - Dong Daddy wrote:
>>>>>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMO. the minimum should be $10 today. The idea of $15 minimum is just
>>>>>>>> too much for many industries. You can get there with a little
>>>>>>>> education and ambition though.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think any fast food burger flipper is worth more than $3/hr.
>>>
>>> If you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to live off that, at
>>> least modestly.
>>>
>>
>>
>>In most jobs, yes, but there has always been the entry level jobs filled
>>by teenagers in school. Part time, little effort required. It is a
>>learning experience and shold actually give the kids incentive to do
>>better.
>
>I agree, but that's part time. If it's 40 hours a week and permanent,
>you should be able to live of it. Some people don't have the brain to
>do anything more than flip burgers or collect garbage.

Someone working a 40 hour week should not be flipping burgers... then
they are not going to school to bettter their job potential. There
are plenty of good paying full time jobs that don't require a college
degree or a high IQ. In fact scientists are not paid very well. I
worked for many years at a national laboratory with many of the
world's top scientists, many of the support trades people were better
paid. Burger flipper is a very low entry level job, it's really a
good job for students so they'll have pocket money and not experience
stress so they can concentrate on their school work, burger flipper is
not a career. No burger flipper should be permitted to work more than
a 20 hour week... nor should a burger flipper be over age 21. Many
fast food companys hire the mentally challenged, however they are not
paid what you'd call a living wage, they are considered handicapped
and are subsidized by a government program and most live in group
homes.... they enjoy their burger flipper type jobs as those jobs make
them feel worthwhile.

On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 7:16:15 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 03:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
> >When I was young, I had a secretarial job that paid just a little over
> >minimum wage. I could not have afforded my own apartment, to buy a
> >car, etc. I had roommates, got a hand-me-down car from my grandparents,
> >and watched every penny. When the car died, I took the bus.
>
> I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
> able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
> your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.

I could live off of it. There's nothing wrong with roommates or
taking the bus. I had all of the basics, plus all of the library
books I could read. Not a bad life, in sum.

The rental market in this town is distorted by the college students.
I could probably have moved out of the city limits, had smaller rent,
no roommates, but a longer commute.

Cindy Hamilton

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 21:16:06 +1000, Bruce >
wrote:

>On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 03:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:
>
>>On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 9:08:57 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:52:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>> >On 9/14/2017 3:00 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> If you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to live off that, at
>>> >> least modestly.
>>> >>
>>> >In most jobs, yes, but there has always been the entry level jobs filled
>>> >by teenagers in school. Part time, little effort required. It is a
>>> >learning experience and shold actually give the kids incentive to do
>>> >better.
>>>
>>> I agree, but that's part time. If it's 40 hours a week and permanent,
>>> you should be able to live of it. Some people don't have the brain to
>>> do anything more than flip burgers or collect garbage.
>>
>><http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/24/news/economy/trash-workers-high-pay/>
>>
>>I don't make much more as a programmer than a median-paid garbage truck
>>driver. Jobs at small, Midwestern tech companies don't pay anything like
>>those big salaries you hear about in Silicon Valley. Of course, cost
>>of housing here is about 20% of that in San Jose.
>>
>>> I don't mean buy a house, buy a new car and holiday in the Bahamas,
>>> just basic living.
>>
>>When I was young, I had a secretarial job that paid just a little over
>>minimum wage. I could not have afforded my own apartment, to buy a
>>car, etc. I had roommates, got a hand-me-down car from my grandparents,
>>and watched every penny. When the car died, I took the bus.
>
>I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
>able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
>your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.

You need to define "job". Burger flipper is NOT a career type
occupation. Burger flipper is a fill-in job, for someone to earn
pocket money while living at home and going to school... or a form of
therapy for the mentally challenged/handicapped.

One needn't be a Mensa member to make a living wage as a plumber's
helper, while over time they can learn to be more than just a helper
and eventually get licensed and earn as much as most MDs. All the
smarts one needs to be an entry level plumbers helper is that shit
runs downhill and payday is Friday.... a plumber's helper after six
months on the job will either be paid $20/hr or get let go. The
plumber I use is in business for himself as a Master licensed plumber,
he charges $80/hr for labor plus materials, and he makes a profit on
materials too.... plumbing entails hard dirty labor but believe me
he's no brain, I can assure you he's not nearly literate enough to
post on usenet, but does excellent plumbing work.

I hire various trades people all the time. I know how to do small
jobs myself but I'm not going to tackle doing an electrical service,
installing a heating boiler... I've learned long ago that letting each
trade do their expertise ends up costing a lot less in dollars and
misery. I also don't want to buy all the very expensive specialized
tools to use but once.

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 19:32:39 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

>On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 7:46:45 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> On 9/14/2017 2:33 AM, wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > I'm also driving a vehicle I've owned for 20 years and am toying
>> > with the idea of a new car in December. My present vehicle is
>> > running just fine but I would like one last new, luxury vehicle
>> > in my lifetime. I'm presently driving an SUV but would love to
>> > treat myself to something that is butt and bone soothing.

Were it me I'd keep your 20 year old SUV, especially if it's running
well. My Landcruiser is a 1991. runs great, and is reasonably
comfortable. I looked, the new ones cost nearly five times the price
I paid, and are so full of computer moduals that constantly crap out
and cost a fortune you'll wish you had your present vehicle.

>> Go for it. You can reach your destination is a cheap compact, but it is
>> much nicer riding in a luxury model. Should be some good deals on the
>> 2017 about now.
>>
>>
>A hundred years ago I had a Cadillac Coupe de Ville and I still miss
>the ride, handling, size, and comfort thus the desire for another
>luxury automobile.
>
>Yes, I've seen some mark downs for Labor Day but I'm going to hold
>out for mid to late December. I'm hoping they'll be more receptive
>to offers, then again they may just show me the door.

For comfort no vehicle comes close to my 1978 Eldorado, not then and
not now.