On 9/14/2017 10:32 PM, wrote:

>>
>>
> A hundred years ago I had a Cadillac Coupe de Ville and I still miss
> the ride, handling, size, and comfort thus the desire for another
> luxury automobile.
>
> Yes, I've seen some mark downs for Labor Day but I'm going to hold
> out for mid to late December. I'm hoping they'll be more receptive
> to offers, then again they may just show me the door.
>

I hope they still have a leftover you like. I bought near the end of
the model year and knew the new ones were pretty much unchanged. I got
a good deal using truecar.com pricing.

On 2017-09-15 10:26 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 9/14/2017 10:32 PM, wrote:

>> Yes, I've seen some mark downs for Labor Day but I'm going to hold
>> out for mid to late December.Â* I'm hoping they'll be more receptive
>> to offers, then again they may just show me the door.
>>
>
> I hope they still have a leftover you like.Â* I bought near the end of
> the model year and knew the new ones were pretty much unchanged.Â* I got
> a good deal using truecar.com pricing.

My recently purchased motorcycle was marked down 20% because it is a
2015 model year. I did some research and determined that the model has
been virtually unchanged. Other than the colour, the two 2015 bikes on
display were pretty well identical to the 2017 model. The one I chose
had the passenger seat and footpegs. Maybe the tires will die of old age
a little sooner, but they will likely be worn down before than happens.

On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 11:09:41 PM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
>
> It is not only that they have let them in ...
>
> --
> http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

They have let them in and have encouraged their assimilation into Swedish society. My step-mom's daughter in law was some kind of entertainer/entrepreneur in Russia. These days, she's a dental assistant in Sweden.

Sweden also has a large number of immigrants from Northern Africa. Why these people want to live in such a cold area of the world is a mystery. None the less, they will change the face of Europe. Transitioning into a multicultural society is pretty scary but it hasn't hurt Hawaii - it has enriched it. It always does.

This is what we had for dinner last night. Luau stew - taro leaves with beef chunks. Pastele stew - a deconstructed Portuguese tamale.

https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/...LGumyTlXSSDT5j

https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/...MFEd5VHvlf2xNG

On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 11:15:47 PM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>
> Yes, I agree, but it's beside the point that in western Europe -UK
> included of course- the higher taxes compared to the US lead to a
> higher standard of living and a nicer country to live in.

My Swedish step-mom can't understand why people have to pay so much to get a higher education. In the US, we preach that education is important but mostly, that's lip service. That's unforgivable.

On 9/15/2017 2:12 PM, dsi1 wrote:

>
> They have let them in and have encouraged their assimilation into Swedish society. My step-mom's daughter in law was some kind of entertainer/entrepreneur in Russia. These days, she's a dental assistant in Sweden.
>
> Sweden also has a large number of immigrants from Northern Africa. Why these people want to live in such a cold area of the world is a mystery. None the less, they will change the face of Europe. Transitioning into a multicultural society is pretty scary but it hasn't hurt Hawaii - it has enriched it. It always does.
>

Usually a multi-cultural society is a good thing. Seems like many of
the new people expect to be cared for and have little to offer in
exchange. Are the skills, ability to learn and ambition there? It will
take a long time before it is apparent to what the result will be.


> This is what we had for dinner last night. Luau stew - taro leaves with beef chunks. Pastele stew - a deconstructed Portuguese tamale.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/...LGumyTlXSSDT5j
>
> https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/...MFEd5VHvlf2xNG
>

Looks good. I'm not familiar with taro leaves but would try them.

On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 8:41:10 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 9/15/2017 2:12 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
> >
> > They have let them in and have encouraged their assimilation into Swedish society. My step-mom's daughter in law was some kind of entertainer/entrepreneur in Russia. These days, she's a dental assistant in Sweden.
> >
> > Sweden also has a large number of immigrants from Northern Africa. Why these people want to live in such a cold area of the world is a mystery. None the less, they will change the face of Europe. Transitioning into a multicultural society is pretty scary but it hasn't hurt Hawaii - it has enriched it. It always does.
> >
>
> Usually a multi-cultural society is a good thing. Seems like many of
> the new people expect to be cared for and have little to offer in
> exchange. Are the skills, ability to learn and ambition there? It will
> take a long time before it is apparent to what the result will be.
>
>
> > This is what we had for dinner last night. Luau stew - taro leaves with beef chunks. Pastele stew - a deconstructed Portuguese tamale.
> >
> > https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/...LGumyTlXSSDT5j
> >
> > https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/...MFEd5VHvlf2xNG
> >
>
> Looks good. I'm not familiar with taro leaves but would try them.

Taro leaves (and the taro corm) are tough to cook because they contain crystals that have to be dissolved by long cooking. Taro leaves are tough to find on the mainland. I don't know why that is. Taro can grow in most places. For this recipe, you could use kale. You only have to cook it down until it gets soft so it's faster to prepare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpXCY2i9-Jc

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:02:52 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
wrote:

>On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 8:41:10 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 9/15/2017 2:12 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > They have let them in and have encouraged their assimilation into Swedish society. My step-mom's daughter in law was some kind of entertainer/entrepreneur in Russia. These days, she's a dental assistant in Sweden.
>> >
>> > Sweden also has a large number of immigrants from Northern Africa. Why these people want to live in such a cold area of the world is a mystery. None the less, they will change the face of Europe. Transitioning into a multicultural society is pretty scary but it hasn't hurt Hawaii - it has enriched it. It always does.
>> >
>>
>> Usually a multi-cultural society is a good thing. Seems like many of
>> the new people expect to be cared for and have little to offer in
>> exchange. Are the skills, ability to learn and ambition there? It will
>> take a long time before it is apparent to what the result will be.
>>
>>
>> > This is what we had for dinner last night. Luau stew - taro leaves with beef chunks. Pastele stew - a deconstructed Portuguese tamale.
>> >
>> > https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/...LGumyTlXSSDT5j
>> >
>> > https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/...MFEd5VHvlf2xNG
>> >
>>
>> Looks good. I'm not familiar with taro leaves but would try them.
>
>Taro leaves (and the taro corm) are tough to cook because they contain crystals that have to be dissolved by long cooking. Taro leaves are tough to find on the mainland.

I found them -dried- in the Australian countryside.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 06:15:42 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 7:16:15 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 03:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>> > wrote:
>> >When I was young, I had a secretarial job that paid just a little over
>> >minimum wage. I could not have afforded my own apartment, to buy a
>> >car, etc. I had roommates, got a hand-me-down car from my grandparents,
>> >and watched every penny. When the car died, I took the bus.
>>
>> I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
>> able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
>> your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.
>
>I could live off of it. There's nothing wrong with roommates or
>taking the bus. I had all of the basics, plus all of the library
>books I could read. Not a bad life, in sum.
>
>The rental market in this town is distorted by the college students.
>I could probably have moved out of the city limits, had smaller rent,
>no roommates, but a longer commute.

That sounds alright to me.

Bruce wrote:
>
> I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
> able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
> your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.

If you are uneducated and unskilled and accept a minimum wage
job, you can live fine but you have to adapt to the situation.
Live with roommates to split monthly costs, etc. Skip going out
to eat, vacations, even a car which is a big cost. Don't run up a
credit card. Certainly don't have kids. - keep it in your pants.

People that refuse to work hard to better themselves get no
sympathy from me when they whine and cry.
Save that beer, lottery, and cigarette money and see how much
extra THAT will add up to in a year's time.

I do feel for those that struggle and try their best. Like single
parents with a deadbeat ex-spouse that pays no child support,
etc. There are certainly cases that do warrant our help. That
said, there are many lazy deadbeats out to scam the system and
live off our tax dollars. Maybe best to identify them and kill
them off. No loss to society, imo.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 09:43:46 -0400, wrote:

>On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 21:16:06 +1000, Bruce >
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 03:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 9:08:57 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:52:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >On 9/14/2017 3:00 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to live off that, at
>>>> >> least modestly.
>>>> >>
>>>> >In most jobs, yes, but there has always been the entry level jobs filled
>>>> >by teenagers in school. Part time, little effort required. It is a
>>>> >learning experience and shold actually give the kids incentive to do
>>>> >better.
>>>>
>>>> I agree, but that's part time. If it's 40 hours a week and permanent,
>>>> you should be able to live of it. Some people don't have the brain to
>>>> do anything more than flip burgers or collect garbage.
>>>
>>><http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/24/news/economy/trash-workers-high-pay/>
>>>
>>>I don't make much more as a programmer than a median-paid garbage truck
>>>driver. Jobs at small, Midwestern tech companies don't pay anything like
>>>those big salaries you hear about in Silicon Valley. Of course, cost
>>>of housing here is about 20% of that in San Jose.
>>>
>>>> I don't mean buy a house, buy a new car and holiday in the Bahamas,
>>>> just basic living.
>>>
>>>When I was young, I had a secretarial job that paid just a little over
>>>minimum wage. I could not have afforded my own apartment, to buy a
>>>car, etc. I had roommates, got a hand-me-down car from my grandparents,
>>>and watched every penny. When the car died, I took the bus.
>>
>>I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
>>able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
>>your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.
>
>You need to define "job". Burger flipper is NOT a career type
>occupation. Burger flipper is a fill-in job, for someone to earn
>pocket money while living at home and going to school... or a form of
>therapy for the mentally challenged/handicapped.

If you do it full-time and permanently, it's a job. It takes up all
your working hours and you get paid for it, so it's a job.

>One needn't be a Mensa member to make a living wage as a plumber's
>helper, while over time they can learn to be more than just a helper
>and eventually get licensed and earn as much as most MDs.

I don't know what an MD is, but not everybody has the ability to
become a plumber.

>All the
>smarts one needs to be an entry level plumbers helper is that shit
>runs downhill and payday is Friday.... a plumber's helper after six
>months on the job will either be paid $20/hr or get let go. The
>plumber I use is in business for himself as a Master licensed plumber,
>he charges $80/hr for labor plus materials, and he makes a profit on
>materials too.... plumbing entails hard dirty labor but believe me
>he's no brain, I can assure you he's not nearly literate enough to
>post on usenet, but does excellent plumbing work.

Then he has a well functioning brain, even though he's not part of us
Usenet elite.

On 2017-09-15, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> Looks good.

It does!? Looks 'orrible, to me.

OTOH, a Hawaiian fast food take-out opened in Livermore (where I usta
live, in the SFBA) jes before I moved. Looked like a fast-food
Chinese take-out. I never bothered. Too heavy on the rice.

Other than coconuts and poi, jes what have the Hawaiians given us,
cuisine wise? Don't not even mention Spam!

nb

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 7:16:15 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 03:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > > wrote:
> > >When I was young, I had a secretarial job that paid just a little over
> > >minimum wage. I could not have afforded my own apartment, to buy a
> > >car, etc. I had roommates, got a hand-me-down car from my grandparents,
> > >and watched every penny. When the car died, I took the bus.
> >
> > I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
> > able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
> > your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.
>
> I could live off of it. There's nothing wrong with roommates or
> taking the bus. I had all of the basics, plus all of the library
> books I could read. Not a bad life, in sum.

There ya go. Cindy is a realistic person. If you make less, you
adjust to living on less.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 15:40:38 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>Bruce wrote:
>>
>> I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
>> able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
>> your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.
>
>If you are uneducated and unskilled and accept a minimum wage
>job, you can live fine but you have to adapt to the situation.
>Live with roommates to split monthly costs, etc.

No, not roommates! A little 1 bedroom apartment in an affordable part
of town.

>Skip going out
>to eat, vacations, even a car which is a big cost. Don't run up a
>credit card. Certainly don't have kids. - keep it in your pants.

I agree.

>People that refuse to work hard to better themselves get no
>sympathy from me when they whine and cry.
>Save that beer, lottery, and cigarette money and see how much
>extra THAT will add up to in a year's time.

If it's all you want or all your brain allows you to do, then fair
enough. I could live that way if I had to. But no roommates.

On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 3:53:36 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 15:40:38 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>
> >Bruce wrote:
> >>
> >> I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
> >> able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
> >> your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.
> >
> >If you are uneducated and unskilled and accept a minimum wage
> >job, you can live fine but you have to adapt to the situation.
> >Live with roommates to split monthly costs, etc.
>
> No, not roommates! A little 1 bedroom apartment in an affordable part
> of town.

Would that be an affordable part of Manhattan, or an
affordable part of Peoria? I think "no roommates" is unrealistic
in many urban areas.

A studio apartment in Manhattan is $2500 per month, or $30,000 per
year. As an example of a low-paying job, let say a dishwasher in
a restaurant. What restaurant could afford to pay a dishwasher
enough that, after taxes, he could pay that much rent plus all
other living expenses?

You are simply not being realistic.

Cindy Hamilton

On 9/15/2017 3:44 PM, Gary wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>> On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 7:16:15 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 03:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>>> > wrote:
>>>> When I was young, I had a secretarial job that paid just a little over
>>>> minimum wage. I could not have afforded my own apartment, to buy a
>>>> car, etc. I had roommates, got a hand-me-down car from my grandparents,
>>>> and watched every penny. When the car died, I took the bus.
>>>
>>> I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
>>> able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
>>> your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.
>>
>> I could live off of it. There's nothing wrong with roommates or
>> taking the bus. I had all of the basics, plus all of the library
>> books I could read. Not a bad life, in sum.
>
> There ya go. Cindy is a realistic person. If you make less, you
> adjust to living on less.
>
Exactly! After I waited tables I got a job as a secretary. I was
thrilled at making more money but I still needed a roommate to help
split the other costs of living. Electric, water, food, etc. I didn't
splurge on clothes or go out to eat all the time. I was doing fine but
lived modestly.

Jill

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 13:08:18 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 3:53:36 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 15:40:38 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>>
>> >Bruce wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
>> >> able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
>> >> your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.
>> >
>> >If you are uneducated and unskilled and accept a minimum wage
>> >job, you can live fine but you have to adapt to the situation.
>> >Live with roommates to split monthly costs, etc.
>>
>> No, not roommates! A little 1 bedroom apartment in an affordable part
>> of town.
>
>Would that be an affordable part of Manhattan, or an
>affordable part of Peoria? I think "no roommates" is unrealistic
>in many urban areas.
>
>A studio apartment in Manhattan is $2500 per month, or $30,000 per
>year. As an example of a low-paying job, let say a dishwasher in
>a restaurant. What restaurant could afford to pay a dishwasher
>enough that, after taxes, he could pay that much rent plus all
>other living expenses?
>
>You are simply not being realistic.

Clearly, Manhattan isn't an affordable part of town then. I also
woudln't try to live as a dishwasher in Paris or London. Unless I'd
accept a very long commute.

jmcquown wrote:
>
> On 9/15/2017 3:44 PM, Gary wrote:
> > Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>
> >> On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 7:16:15 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 03:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> >>> > wrote:
> >>>> When I was young, I had a secretarial job that paid just a little over
> >>>> minimum wage. I could not have afforded my own apartment, to buy a
> >>>> car, etc. I had roommates, got a hand-me-down car from my grandparents,
> >>>> and watched every penny. When the car died, I took the bus.
> >>>
> >>> I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
> >>> able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
> >>> your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.
> >>
> >> I could live off of it. There's nothing wrong with roommates or
> >> taking the bus. I had all of the basics, plus all of the library
> >> books I could read. Not a bad life, in sum.
> >
> > There ya go. Cindy is a realistic person. If you make less, you
> > adjust to living on less.
> >
> Exactly! After I waited tables I got a job as a secretary. I was
> thrilled at making more money but I still needed a roommate to help
> split the other costs of living. Electric, water, food, etc. I didn't
> splurge on clothes or go out to eat all the time. I was doing fine but
> lived modestly.

I live alone now but I could easily adapt to a roommate situation
if necessary. As long as I had my own bedroom to hide in
whenever, that would be fine. Just have to find a somewhat
compatible person(s) to share the place with.

On 2017-09-15, jmcquown > wrote:

> I was doing fine but lived modestly.

Not a crime, unlike what some would have you believe. I think most of
us, here, have been in the same situation at some point in out lives.

I know I have, and I still am. I now have a home that I own, but
I still watch my budget, cuz it's damn CLOSE!

nb

On 9/15/2017 9:43 AM, wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 21:16:06 +1000, Bruce >
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 03:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 9:08:57 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:52:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/14/2017 3:00 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to live off that, at
>>>>>> least modestly.
>>>>>>
>>>>> In most jobs, yes, but there has always been the entry level jobs filled
>>>>> by teenagers in school. Part time, little effort required. It is a
>>>>> learning experience and shold actually give the kids incentive to do
>>>>> better.
>>>>
>>>> I agree, but that's part time. If it's 40 hours a week and permanent,
>>>> you should be able to live of it. Some people don't have the brain to
>>>> do anything more than flip burgers or collect garbage.
>>>
>>> <http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/24/news/economy/trash-workers-high-pay/>
>>>
>>> I don't make much more as a programmer than a median-paid garbage truck
>>> driver. Jobs at small, Midwestern tech companies don't pay anything like
>>> those big salaries you hear about in Silicon Valley. Of course, cost
>>> of housing here is about 20% of that in San Jose.
>>>
>>>> I don't mean buy a house, buy a new car and holiday in the Bahamas,
>>>> just basic living.
>>>
>>> When I was young, I had a secretarial job that paid just a little over
>>> minimum wage. I could not have afforded my own apartment, to buy a
>>> car, etc. I had roommates, got a hand-me-down car from my grandparents,
>>> and watched every penny. When the car died, I took the bus.
>>
>> I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
>> able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
>> your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.
>
> You need to define "job". Burger flipper is NOT a career type
> occupation. Burger flipper is a fill-in job, for someone to earn
> pocket money while living at home and going to school... or a form of
> therapy for the mentally challenged/handicapped.
>
> One needn't be a Mensa member to make a living wage as a plumber's
> helper, while over time they can learn to be more than just a helper

Yes, Sheldon. We all know you would prefer everyone to work in a
factory or as a plumber's or electricians apprentice. That's fine hard
work if you can get it. Unfortunately, those jobs aren't available
everywhere.

Jill

Bruce wrote:
>
> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 13:08:18 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> >On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 3:53:36 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> >> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 15:40:38 -0400, Gary > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Bruce wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
> >> >> able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
> >> >> your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.
> >> >
> >> >If you are uneducated and unskilled and accept a minimum wage
> >> >job, you can live fine but you have to adapt to the situation.
> >> >Live with roommates to split monthly costs, etc.
> >>
> >> No, not roommates! A little 1 bedroom apartment in an affordable part
> >> of town.
> >
> >Would that be an affordable part of Manhattan, or an
> >affordable part of Peoria? I think "no roommates" is unrealistic
> >in many urban areas.
> >
> >A studio apartment in Manhattan is $2500 per month, or $30,000 per
> >year. As an example of a low-paying job, let say a dishwasher in
> >a restaurant. What restaurant could afford to pay a dishwasher
> >enough that, after taxes, he could pay that much rent plus all
> >other living expenses?
> >
> >You are simply not being realistic.
>
> Clearly, Manhattan isn't an affordable part of town then. I also
> woudln't try to live as a dishwasher in Paris or London. Unless I'd
> accept a very long commute.

If all you can be is a dishwasher, try learning a decent skill
for a better job.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 16:18:10 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>Bruce wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 13:08:18 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 3:53:36 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 15:40:38 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Bruce wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
>> >> >> able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
>> >> >> your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.
>> >> >
>> >> >If you are uneducated and unskilled and accept a minimum wage
>> >> >job, you can live fine but you have to adapt to the situation.
>> >> >Live with roommates to split monthly costs, etc.
>> >>
>> >> No, not roommates! A little 1 bedroom apartment in an affordable part
>> >> of town.
>> >
>> >Would that be an affordable part of Manhattan, or an
>> >affordable part of Peoria? I think "no roommates" is unrealistic
>> >in many urban areas.
>> >
>> >A studio apartment in Manhattan is $2500 per month, or $30,000 per
>> >year. As an example of a low-paying job, let say a dishwasher in
>> >a restaurant. What restaurant could afford to pay a dishwasher
>> >enough that, after taxes, he could pay that much rent plus all
>> >other living expenses?
>> >
>> >You are simply not being realistic.
>>
>> Clearly, Manhattan isn't an affordable part of town then. I also
>> woudln't try to live as a dishwasher in Paris or London. Unless I'd
>> accept a very long commute.
>
>If all you can be is a dishwasher, try learning a decent skill
>for a better job.

Is that compulsory?

On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 9:42:34 AM UTC-10, notbob wrote:
> On 2017-09-15, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> > Looks good.
>
> It does!? Looks 'orrible, to me.
>
> OTOH, a Hawaiian fast food take-out opened in Livermore (where I usta
> live, in the SFBA) jes before I moved. Looked like a fast-food
> Chinese take-out. I never bothered. Too heavy on the rice.
>
> Other than coconuts and poi, jes what have the Hawaiians given us,
> cuisine wise? Don't not even mention Spam!
>
> nb

My guess is that you're no expert on Hawaiian foods, you just play one on Usenet. As far as cuisine and culture goes, we have not given the mainland much. That's fine - the mainland has it's cuisine and culture, and we got ours. The last time I was on the mainland, we went to a place called "Hawaiian BBQ." It was Korean food.

Here's what I had for breakfast.

https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/...1Ck9CUBYzY3BaO

Bruce wrote:
>
> Gary wrote:
> >If all you can be is a dishwasher, try learning a decent skill
> >for a better job.
>
> Is that compulsory?

Not at all. There's always the welfare option for the terminally
lazy. We have plenty of them around.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 16:58:08 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>Bruce wrote:
>>
>> Gary wrote:
>> >If all you can be is a dishwasher, try learning a decent skill
>> >for a better job.
>>
>> Is that compulsory?
>
>Not at all. There's always the welfare option for the terminally
>lazy. We have plenty of them around.

I didn't think we were talking about people on welfare, but about
people with modest jobs.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 13:56:33 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
wrote:

>On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 9:42:34 AM UTC-10, notbob wrote:
>> On 2017-09-15, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>> > Looks good.
>>
>> It does!? Looks 'orrible, to me.
>>
>> OTOH, a Hawaiian fast food take-out opened in Livermore (where I usta
>> live, in the SFBA) jes before I moved. Looked like a fast-food
>> Chinese take-out. I never bothered. Too heavy on the rice.
>>
>> Other than coconuts and poi, jes what have the Hawaiians given us,
>> cuisine wise? Don't not even mention Spam!
>>
>> nb
>
>My guess is that you're no expert on Hawaiian foods, you just play one on Usenet. As far as cuisine and culture goes, we have not given the mainland much. That's fine - the mainland has it's cuisine and culture, and we got ours. The last time I was on the mainland, we went to a place called "Hawaiian BBQ." It was Korean food.

Since Hawaii is such a wonderful multicultural mix, a Korean BBQ is a
Hawaiian BBQ. So is a Japanese BBQ. And a Chinese BBQ. Any BBQ,
actually.

The things I've learned from you about Hawaii!

>Here's what I had for breakfast.
>
>https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/...1Ck9CUBYzY3BaO

I love the delicate use of tomato ketchup.

On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 9:26:59 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> On 9/14/2017 10:32 PM, wrote:
>
> > Yes, I've seen some mark downs for Labor Day but I'm going to hold
> > out for mid to late December. I'm hoping they'll be more receptive
> > to offers, then again they may just show me the door.
> >
>
> I hope they still have a leftover you like. I bought near the end of
> the model year and knew the new ones were pretty much unchanged. I got
> a good deal using truecar.com pricing.
>
>
I have scouted out 3 of the exact vehicle I want and all 3 are within
50-60 miles of me. Of course, I'd like to get the one nearest to me
but time will tell. Truecar.com is on my radar as well.

Jill McQuown wrote:

> On 9/15/2017 9:43 AM, wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 21:16:06 +1000, Bruce >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 03:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 9:08:57 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:52:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 9/14/2017 3:00 PM, Bruce wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to live off that, at
> >>>>>> least modestly.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> In most jobs, yes, but there has always been the entry level jobs filled
> >>>>> by teenagers in school. Part time, little effort required. It is a
> >>>>> learning experience and shold actually give the kids incentive to do
> >>>>> better.
> >>>>
> >>>> I agree, but that's part time. If it's 40 hours a week and permanent,
> >>>> you should be able to live of it. Some people don't have the brain to
> >>>> do anything more than flip burgers or collect garbage.
> >>>
> >>> <http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/24/news/economy/trash-workers-high-pay/>
> >>>
> >>> I don't make much more as a programmer than a median-paid garbage truck
> >>> driver. Jobs at small, Midwestern tech companies don't pay anything like
> >>> those big salaries you hear about in Silicon Valley. Of course, cost
> >>> of housing here is about 20% of that in San Jose.
> >>>
> >>>> I don't mean buy a house, buy a new car and holiday in the Bahamas,
> >>>> just basic living.
> >>>
> >>> When I was young, I had a secretarial job that paid just a little over
> >>> minimum wage. I could not have afforded my own apartment, to buy a
> >>> car, etc. I had roommates, got a hand-me-down car from my grandparents,
> >>> and watched every penny. When the car died, I took the bus.
> >>
> >> I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
> >> able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
> >> your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.
> >
> > You need to define "job". Burger flipper is NOT a career type
> > occupation. Burger flipper is a fill-in job, for someone to earn
> > pocket money while living at home and going to school... or a form of
> > therapy for the mentally challenged/handicapped.
> >
> > One needn't be a Mensa member to make a living wage as a plumber's
> > helper, while over time they can learn to be more than just a helper
>
> Yes, Sheldon. We all know you would prefer everyone to work in a
> factory or as a plumber's or electricians apprentice. That's fine hard
> work if you can get it. Unfortunately, those jobs aren't available
> everywhere.


Then people need to migrate to where the jobs are...


--
Best
Greg

On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 11:02:34 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>
> Since Hawaii is such a wonderful multicultural mix, a Korean BBQ is a
> Hawaiian BBQ. So is a Japanese BBQ. And a Chinese BBQ. Any BBQ,
> actually.
>
> The things I've learned from you about Hawaii!
>
> >Here's what I had for breakfast.
> >
> >https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/...1Ck9CUBYzY3BaO
>
> I love the delicate use of tomato ketchup.

That's Sriracha. It's what we call "hot sauce." Typically, I'd use more but that might gross some of the more delicate readers out.

On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 11:06:41 AM UTC-10, Ding - Dong Daddy wrote:>
>
> Then people need to migrate to where the jobs are...
>
>
> --
> Best
> Greg

I sure wish my kids would move to the mainland. I have tried to encourage them to move. Things are tough in paradise. My son is renting a studio next to the university for $850/month. What a hellhole...

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 14:10:55 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
wrote:

>On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 11:02:34 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>>
>> Since Hawaii is such a wonderful multicultural mix, a Korean BBQ is a
>> Hawaiian BBQ. So is a Japanese BBQ. And a Chinese BBQ. Any BBQ,
>> actually.
>>
>> The things I've learned from you about Hawaii!
>>
>> >Here's what I had for breakfast.
>> >
>> >https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/...1Ck9CUBYzY3BaO
>>
>> I love the delicate use of tomato ketchup.
>
>That's Sriracha. It's what we call "hot sauce." Typically, I'd use more but that might gross some of the more delicate readers out.

That sounds good.

On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 11:04:11 AM UTC-10, wrote:
> I have scouted out 3 of the exact vehicle I want and all 3 are within
> 50-60 miles of me. Of course, I'd like to get the one nearest to me
> but time will tell. Truecar.com is on my radar as well.

My daughter's boyfriend wants to buy her a car. It was a used BMW that his uncle was selling. I figure an older BMW 3-series would suit her and the baby fine. I was wrong, it wasn't a 3-series. Far from it. I wouldn't mind owning this car for a couple of years but the truth is that I don't have the ability to care for it properly. It needs an owner that's willing to spend a lot of dough on it and pamper it and preserve it for the future. Not bad for a 22 year old car. It's the same age as her boyfriend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xFbe9Y85pc

On 2017-09-15 3:42 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2017-09-15, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>

> OTOH, a Hawaiian fast food take-out opened in Livermore (where I usta
> live, in the SFBA) jes before I moved. Looked like a fast-food
> Chinese take-out. I never bothered. Too heavy on the rice.

I was puzzled about why someone would open a Hawaiian restaurant in our
town. It never appealed to me, but I went there and gave it a try. It
was a major disappointment. Just about everyone I know who has been
there has been there was as disappointed as I was. It's been there for
more than two years now and that surprises me.

My disappointment was for a number of reasons. The first two are in
connection to the serving sizes. I had a tiny piece of mahi mahi, I
would say less than two ounces of fish. OTOH, there were two big piles
of starchy food, a huge scoop of rice and a huge scoop of potato salad.
The third problem is not Hawaiian food, but about the bed of greens the
fish was served on. They were soggy, dark and stinky. Half the greens
were downright rotten.



>
> Other than coconuts and poi, jes what have the Hawaiians given us,
> cuisine wise? Don't not even mention Spam!
>

There cuisine is so bad that they actually like Spam.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 16:18:02 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 9/15/2017 9:43 AM, wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 21:16:06 +1000, Bruce >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 03:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 9:08:57 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:52:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/14/2017 3:00 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to live off that, at
>>>>>>> least modestly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> In most jobs, yes, but there has always been the entry level jobs filled
>>>>>> by teenagers in school. Part time, little effort required. It is a
>>>>>> learning experience and shold actually give the kids incentive to do
>>>>>> better.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree, but that's part time. If it's 40 hours a week and permanent,
>>>>> you should be able to live of it. Some people don't have the brain to
>>>>> do anything more than flip burgers or collect garbage.
>>>>
>>>> <http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/24/news/economy/trash-workers-high-pay/>
>>>>
>>>> I don't make much more as a programmer than a median-paid garbage truck
>>>> driver. Jobs at small, Midwestern tech companies don't pay anything like
>>>> those big salaries you hear about in Silicon Valley. Of course, cost
>>>> of housing here is about 20% of that in San Jose.
>>>>
>>>>> I don't mean buy a house, buy a new car and holiday in the Bahamas,
>>>>> just basic living.
>>>>
>>>> When I was young, I had a secretarial job that paid just a little over
>>>> minimum wage. I could not have afforded my own apartment, to buy a
>>>> car, etc. I had roommates, got a hand-me-down car from my grandparents,
>>>> and watched every penny. When the car died, I took the bus.
>>>
>>> I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
>>> able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
>>> your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.
>>
>> You need to define "job". Burger flipper is NOT a career type
>> occupation. Burger flipper is a fill-in job, for someone to earn
>> pocket money while living at home and going to school... or a form of
>> therapy for the mentally challenged/handicapped.
>>
>> One needn't be a Mensa member to make a living wage as a plumber's
>> helper, while over time they can learn to be more than just a helper
>
>Yes, Sheldon. We all know you would prefer everyone to work in a
>factory or as a plumber's or electricians apprentice. That's fine hard
>work if you can get it. Unfortunately, those jobs aren't available
>everywhere.
>
>Jill

Actually those jobs go begging everywhere, by yoose who are deathly
ascared of perspiration, dirty hands, and callus .

On 9/15/2017 6:02 PM, wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 16:18:02 -0400, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/15/2017 9:43 AM, wrote:
>>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 21:16:06 +1000, Bruce >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 03:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 9:08:57 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:52:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/14/2017 3:00 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to live off that, at
>>>>>>>> least modestly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In most jobs, yes, but there has always been the entry level jobs filled
>>>>>>> by teenagers in school. Part time, little effort required. It is a
>>>>>>> learning experience and shold actually give the kids incentive to do
>>>>>>> better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree, but that's part time. If it's 40 hours a week and permanent,
>>>>>> you should be able to live of it. Some people don't have the brain to
>>>>>> do anything more than flip burgers or collect garbage.
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/24/news/economy/trash-workers-high-pay/>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't make much more as a programmer than a median-paid garbage truck
>>>>> driver. Jobs at small, Midwestern tech companies don't pay anything like
>>>>> those big salaries you hear about in Silicon Valley. Of course, cost
>>>>> of housing here is about 20% of that in San Jose.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't mean buy a house, buy a new car and holiday in the Bahamas,
>>>>>> just basic living.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I was young, I had a secretarial job that paid just a little over
>>>>> minimum wage. I could not have afforded my own apartment, to buy a
>>>>> car, etc. I had roommates, got a hand-me-down car from my grandparents,
>>>>> and watched every penny. When the car died, I took the bus.
>>>>
>>>> I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
>>>> able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
>>>> your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.
>>>
>>> You need to define "job". Burger flipper is NOT a career type
>>> occupation. Burger flipper is a fill-in job, for someone to earn
>>> pocket money while living at home and going to school... or a form of
>>> therapy for the mentally challenged/handicapped.
>>>
>>> One needn't be a Mensa member to make a living wage as a plumber's
>>> helper, while over time they can learn to be more than just a helper
>>
>> Yes, Sheldon. We all know you would prefer everyone to work in a
>> factory or as a plumber's or electricians apprentice. That's fine hard
>> work if you can get it. Unfortunately, those jobs aren't available
>> everywhere.
>>
>> Jill
>
> Actually those jobs go begging everywhere, by yoose who are deathly
> ascared of perspiration, dirty hands, and callus .
>
Sorry, but the people you're referring to are youngsters who need to
acquire skills and a trade rather than "burger flipping".

I hire plenty of tradespeople to do things around the house. So do you.
Doesn't mean I want to become one of them.

Jill

On 9/15/2017 4:08 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 3:53:36 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 15:40:38 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
>>>> able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
>>>> your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.
>>>
>>> If you are uneducated and unskilled and accept a minimum wage
>>> job, you can live fine but you have to adapt to the situation.
>>> Live with roommates to split monthly costs, etc.
>>
>> No, not roommates! A little 1 bedroom apartment in an affordable part
>> of town.
>
> Would that be an affordable part of Manhattan, or an
> affordable part of Peoria? I think "no roommates" is unrealistic
> in many urban areas.
>
> A studio apartment in Manhattan is $2500 per month, or $30,000 per
> year. As an example of a low-paying job, let say a dishwasher in
> a restaurant. What restaurant could afford to pay a dishwasher
> enough that, after taxes, he could pay that much rent plus all
> other living expenses?
>
> You are simply not being realistic.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
How can you expect a clueless person to be realistic?

Jill

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 18:10:28 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 9/15/2017 4:08 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 3:53:36 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 15:40:38 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bruce wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that's wrong. If it was a full-time job, you should have been
>>>>> able to live modestly of it at least. Full-time means you give all
>>>>> your working hours. I think that should mean you can live off it.
>>>>
>>>> If you are uneducated and unskilled and accept a minimum wage
>>>> job, you can live fine but you have to adapt to the situation.
>>>> Live with roommates to split monthly costs, etc.
>>>
>>> No, not roommates! A little 1 bedroom apartment in an affordable part
>>> of town.
>>
>> Would that be an affordable part of Manhattan, or an
>> affordable part of Peoria? I think "no roommates" is unrealistic
>> in many urban areas.
>>
>> A studio apartment in Manhattan is $2500 per month, or $30,000 per
>> year. As an example of a low-paying job, let say a dishwasher in
>> a restaurant. What restaurant could afford to pay a dishwasher
>> enough that, after taxes, he could pay that much rent plus all
>> other living expenses?
>>
>> You are simply not being realistic.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>How can you expect a clueless person to be realistic?

Don't bitch about people you've killfiled. It's cowardly.

Print and on your kitchen wall, please.

On 9/15/2017 4:58 PM, Gary wrote:
> Bruce wrote:
>>
>> Gary wrote:
>>> If all you can be is a dishwasher, try learning a decent skill
>>> for a better job.
>>
>> Is that compulsory?
>
> Not at all. There's always the welfare option for the terminally
> lazy. We have plenty of them around.
>
Please don't encourage him. BTW, if you don't have underage children
residing with you, welfare isn't an option in most states.

Jill

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 18:16:04 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 9/15/2017 4:58 PM, Gary wrote:
>> Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>> Gary wrote:
>>>> If all you can be is a dishwasher, try learning a decent skill
>>>> for a better job.
>>>
>>> Is that compulsory?
>>
>> Not at all. There's always the welfare option for the terminally
>> lazy. We have plenty of them around.
>>
>Please don't encourage him.

You're misbehaving, McBiddy.

On 9/15/2017 3:42 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2017-09-15, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> Looks good.
>
> It does!? Looks 'orrible, to me.
>
I can't tell what it is. The first pic (the taro leaves?) looked like
bunch of limp turnip greens with something in it and plain white rice on
the side. The other looked like a sort of Ethiopian stew which should
have been made with lamb and scooped up with injera bread.

> OTOH, a Hawaiian fast food take-out opened in Livermore (where I usta
> live, in the SFBA) jes before I moved. Looked like a fast-food
> Chinese take-out. I never bothered. Too heavy on the rice.
>
Taro leaves and taro root, apparently.

> Other than coconuts and poi, jes what have the Hawaiians given us,
> cuisine wise? Don't not even mention Spam!
>
> nb
>
Spam spam spam spam spam. LOL

Jill

On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 11:34:55 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> I was puzzled about why someone would open a Hawaiian restaurant in our
> town. It never appealed to me, but I went there and gave it a try. It
> was a major disappointment. Just about everyone I know who has been
> there has been there was as disappointed as I was. It's been there for
> more than two years now and that surprises me.
>
> My disappointment was for a number of reasons. The first two are in
> connection to the serving sizes. I had a tiny piece of mahi mahi, I
> would say less than two ounces of fish. OTOH, there were two big piles
> of starchy food, a huge scoop of rice and a huge scoop of potato salad.
> The third problem is not Hawaiian food, but about the bed of greens the
> fish was served on. They were soggy, dark and stinky. Half the greens
> were downright rotten.
>
> There cuisine is so bad that they actually like Spam.

Next time, don't get the mahimahi. You're really taking a chance with Hawaiian fish on the mainland. I wouldn't order it on this rock either - unless it was poke. If I was operating a restaurant on the mainland, I'd make it suitable for mainlanders - rice tends to gross them out. Too much starches grosses them out. White folks would automatically get the haole plate. Potatoes and a tossed salad. Also, don't ever eat that greens stuff under the fried food. I sure wouldn't. That would gross me out.