On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:39:18 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 9/18/2017 11:11, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 03:15:45 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 10:46:08 PM UTC-4, Doris Night wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 16:06:30 +1000, Bruce >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 22:33:12 -0700, "Cheri" >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "U.S. Janet B." > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 19:40:39 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I won't ever pick up a smoke, either (unless like I said, I found out I
>>>>>>>> had a short time to
>>>>>>>> live) because I know that one cigarette is all it would take for the
>>>>>>>> addiction to take hold
>>>>>>>> again. I have completely refurbished/remodeled the interior of my home
>>>>>>>> starting a year
>>>>>>>> after I quit, and I won't subject the interior to the effects and odor of
>>>>>>>> smoking.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> N.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we stopped smoking indoors years before I quit. I quit September
>>>>>>> 2009, I just stopped. My husband still hasn't quit. Since he
>>>>>>> doesn't smoke in the house nor inside our vehicle, it doesn't bother
>>>>>>> me. Except, he stinks. He always smells of it.
>>>>>>> Janet US
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I still love the smell of cigarettes in passing someone who has been
>>>>>> smoking, many people don't, but I do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Me too. I could follow them around for a bit, but I control myself
>>>>
>>>> Same here.
>>>>
>>>> When a car passes our house with the windows open and someone inside
>>>> is smoking, I can smell it. My husband doesn't smell it, and he thinks
>>>> I'm making it up.
>>>
>>> I was in a meeting with someone. I couldn't smell cigarettes on his
>>> clothing, but every time he spoke, a whoosh of cigarette odor came out
>>> of his lungs.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>> exactly
>> Janet US
>>
>When I was in my 30's

you were already McBiddy. Some people are practically born old.

On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 14:29:21 +0100, Janet > wrote:

>In article >, says...
>> When I was in my 30's I went to a new [to me] dentist. I'd been smoking
>> since I was a teenager. Got a dental exam, he checked for cavities,
>> cleaned my teeth and commented "You don't smoke." Uh, yes I do. He
>> sure couldn't tell. I promise I did not hold my breath for the 30
>> minutes I was sitting in that dentist's chair. He really could not
>> tell. Some people have a hyper-sensitive sense of smell.
>>
>> When I walk into someone's home I'm more apt to notice scents such as
>> sprayed air freshener/room deodorizer (or those horrific plug-in things).
>>
>
> I have to damp-wipe-down the dog when he comes back from his
>dogsitter; always stinking of her cigarette smoke.

People still smoke in the UK?

On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:19:45 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 7:24:12 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 08:04:33 -0300, wrote:
>>
>> >On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:48:05 -0400, jmcquown >
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >>On 9/18/2017 6:12, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> >>> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 5:49:46 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>> >>>> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 10:20:23 AM UTC-10, wrote:
>> >>>>> I used to smoke kool milds, a woman I knew said she thought menthol cigs were the worst for you.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hopefully, smoking will get popular again. People are living too damn long anyway. As an added bonus, it's kind of cool.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdFHSCqf3fQ
>> >>>
>> >>> Ah, yes. Cancer. What a painless way to go. Of course, you might
>> >>> just end up with a tracheostomy.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cindy Hamilton
>> >>>
>> >>Then again, there are plenty of people who never smoked who died of lung
>> >>cancer. Living is a dangerous business.
>> >>
>> >>Jill
>> >
>> >I know three or four people, who smoked, and died of lung cancer. Are
>> >you busy trying to justify smoking?
>>
>> Sheeple have trouble understanding these things. Recent research shows
>> that 25% of heavy smokers don't make it to 65. That's a statistic that
>> counts. Knowing an aunt who smoked until she was a 100 doesn't count.
>> Eating crap all your life and still being alive at 70 also doesn't
>> count.
>
>How much difference does it make if you eat crap until you're
>70 and then stop eating crap? I don't expect anyone to have
>an answer, but it's certainly food for thought.

Yes, it is. Same for smoking. I believe recent research says that
people who quit before they're 35, become as healthy as people who've
never smoked.

On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 06:18:54 -0700, "Cheri" >
wrote:

> wrote in message
.. .
>> On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:48:05 -0400, jmcquown >
>
>>>Then again, there are plenty of people who never smoked who died of lung
>>>cancer. Living is a dangerous business.
>>>
>>>Jill
>>
>> I know three or four people, who smoked, and died of lung cancer. Are
>> you busy trying to justify smoking?
>
>
>I know two who died of lung cancer who never smoked, but did work in the
>shipyards during the war. I see nothing in Jill's post that is *trying to
>justify smoking* she's just stating a fact.

There aren't "plenty" of non smokers who die of lung cancer. There is
a small number of them. And there is a much bigger number of smokers
that die of it.

On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:20:48 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 9:32:09 AM UTC-4, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Mon 18 Sep 2017 03:12:37a, Cindy Hamilton told us...
>>
>> > On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 5:49:46 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>> >> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 10:20:23 AM UTC-10,
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > I used to smoke kool milds, a woman I knew said she thought
>> >> > menthol cigs were the worst for you.
>> >>
>> >> Hopefully, smoking will get popular again. People are living too
>> >> damn long anyway. As an added bonus, it's kind of cool.
>> >>
>> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdFHSCqf3fQ
>> >
>> > Ah, yes. Cancer. What a painless way to go. Of course, you
>> > might just end up with a tracheostomy.
>> >
>> > Cindy Hamilton
>> >
>>
>> "A painless way to go?" A great many cancer patients suffer
>> excruciating pain, and often they die a very painful death.
>
>Sarcasm is so difficult to convey on Usenet.

It also depends on the recipient.

On 9/22/2017 9:18 AM, Cheri wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:48:05 -0400, jmcquown >
>
>>> Then again, there are plenty of people who never smoked who died of lung
>>> cancer.* Living is a dangerous business.
>>>
>>> Jill
>>
>> I know three or four people, who smoked, and died of lung cancer.* Are
>> you busy trying to justify smoking?
>
>
> I know two who died of lung cancer who never smoked, but did work in the
> shipyards during the war. I see nothing in Jill's post that is *trying
> to justify smoking* she's just stating a fact.
>
> Cheri

I most certainly was not trying to justify smoking. I'm pretty sure
everyone knows smoking is bad for your health. How about this: lets
blame the Native Americans.

http://www.ushistory.org/us/2d.asp

Apparently people have been railing against it since 1604:

"Smoking is a custom loathsome to the eye, hateful to the nose, harmful
to the brain, dangerous to the lungs, and in the black, stinking fume
thereof nearest resembling the horrible Stygian smoke of the pit that is
bottomless.

– James I of England, A Counterblaste to Tobacco (1604)"

Jill

On 9/22/2017 10:01 AM, wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 09:59:35 -0600, Sqwerts >
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/22/2017 9:39 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> He fell into a coma and died three days later. He was still moaning.
>>>
>>
>> You ghoul, you made him suffer all the way to Hell.
>
> I'd like to think you'll die slowly and very painfully, then you might
> not consider our methods ghoulish.

>
I'd like to see you ruined and turned out n the street, you old
entitlement hussy biotch.

On 9/22/2017 1:22 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> When I was in my 30's
> you were already McBiddy. Some people are practically born old.


You were born troll.

On 9/22/2017 1:23 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> always stinking of her cigarette smoke.
> People still smoke in the UK?

Are you THAT stupid???

"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 06:18:54 -0700, "Cheri" >
> wrote:
>
> wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:48:05 -0400, jmcquown >
>>
>>>>Then again, there are plenty of people who never smoked who died of lung
>>>>cancer. Living is a dangerous business.
>>>>
>>>>Jill
>>>
>>> I know three or four people, who smoked, and died of lung cancer. Are
>>> you busy trying to justify smoking?
>>
>>
>>I know two who died of lung cancer who never smoked, but did work in the
>>shipyards during the war. I see nothing in Jill's post that is *trying to
>>justify smoking* she's just stating a fact.
>
> There aren't "plenty" of non smokers who die of lung cancer. There is
> a small number of them. And there is a much bigger number of smokers
> that die of it.


That is absolutely not true, there are many who die of lung cancer from
other causes, not as many as smokers, but still many/plenty.

Cheri

On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 12:53:01 -0700, "Cheri" >
wrote:

>"Bruce" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 06:18:54 -0700, "Cheri" >
>> wrote:
>>
> wrote in message
...
>>>> On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:48:05 -0400, jmcquown >
>>>
>>>>>Then again, there are plenty of people who never smoked who died of lung
>>>>>cancer. Living is a dangerous business.
>>>>>
>>>>>Jill
>>>>
>>>> I know three or four people, who smoked, and died of lung cancer. Are
>>>> you busy trying to justify smoking?
>>>
>>>
>>>I know two who died of lung cancer who never smoked, but did work in the
>>>shipyards during the war. I see nothing in Jill's post that is *trying to
>>>justify smoking* she's just stating a fact.
>>
>> There aren't "plenty" of non smokers who die of lung cancer. There is
>> a small number of them. And there is a much bigger number of smokers
>> that die of it.
>
>
>That is absolutely not true, there are many who die of lung cancer from
>other causes, not as many as smokers, but still many/plenty.

I bet it's a small number compared to the (ex-)smokers.

On 9/22/2017 1:53 PM, Cheri wrote:
> "Bruce" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 06:18:54 -0700, "Cheri" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:48:05 -0400, jmcquown >
>>>
>>>>> Then again, there are plenty of people who never smoked who died of
>>>>> lung
>>>>> cancer.* Living is a dangerous business.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jill
>>>>
>>>> I know three or four people, who smoked, and died of lung cancer.* Are
>>>> you busy trying to justify smoking?
>>>
>>>
>>> I know two who died of lung cancer who never smoked, but did work in the
>>> shipyards during the war. I see nothing in Jill's post that is
>>> *trying to
>>> justify smoking* she's just stating a fact.
>>
>> There aren't "plenty" of non smokers who die of lung cancer. There is
>> a small number of them. And there is a much bigger number of smokers
>> that die of it.
>
>
> That is absolutely not true, there are many who die of lung cancer from
> other causes, not as many as smokers, but still many/plenty.
>
> Cheri
In fact:

http://www.lung.org/lung-health-and-...act-sheet.html

It has been estimated that active smoking is responsible for close to 90
percent of lung cancer cases; radon causes 10 percent, occupational
exposures to carcinogens account for approximately 9 to 15 percent and
outdoor air pollution 1 to 2 percent. Because of the interactions
between exposures, the combined attributable risk for lung cancer can
exceed 100 percent.13
Exposure to radon is estimated to be the second-leading cause of lung
cancer, accounting for an estimated 21,000 lung cancer deaths each year
(range of 8,000 to 45,000). Radon is a tasteless, colorless and odorless
gas that is produced by decaying uranium and occurs naturally in soil
and rock. The majority of these deaths occur among smokers since there
is a greater risk for lung cancer when smokers also are exposed to radon.14
Lung cancer can also be caused by occupational exposures, including
asbestos, uranium and coke (an important fuel in the manufacture of iron
in smelters, blast furnaces and foundries). The combination of asbestos
exposure and smoking greatly increases the risk of developing lung cancer.15
Nonsmoking asbes*tos workers are five times more likely to develop lung
cancer than non*smokers not ex*posed to asbestos; if they also smoke,
the risk factor jumps to 50 or higher.13 Environmental exposures also
can increase the risk of lung cancer death.16

http://www.webmd.com/lung-cancer/new...onsmokers-risk

Thun's team notes that every year in the U.S., an estimated 15,000
lifelong nonsmokers die of lung cancer.

Thun and colleagues checked data from two ACS studies. One study ran
from 1959 to 1972. The other spanned the years from 1982 to 2000. Each
included more than 940,000 people who reported being lifelong
nonsmokers, lived in the U.S., and were 35-84 years old.

Participants' age, race, education level, spouses' smoking status, and
other factors were also noted in the study.

Results by Sex, Race

Thun's team estimates that in the later ACS study, a rate of 17 out of
100,000 lifelong nonsmoking men per year died of lung cancer, compared
with nearly 15 per 100,000 women who were lifelong nonsmokers.

The gender gap was a bit wider in the earlier ACS study. What changed?
Lung cancer death rates rose for nonsmoking women aged 70-84, possibly
because of improvements in lung cancer diagnosis, the researchers write.

The later ACS study also showed that compared with white nonsmoking
women, black nonsmoking women were more likely to die of lung cancer. A
similar but weaker pattern was seen among black and white nonsmoking
men, but that finding may have been due to chance.

"Bruce" wrote in message ...

On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:19:45 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 7:24:12 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 08:04:33 -0300, wrote:
>>
>> >On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:48:05 -0400, jmcquown >
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >>On 9/18/2017 6:12, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> >>> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 5:49:46 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>> >>>> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 10:20:23 AM UTC-10,
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>> I used to smoke kool milds, a woman I knew said she thought menthol
>> >>>>> cigs were the worst for you.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hopefully, smoking will get popular again. People are living too
>> >>>> damn long anyway. As an added bonus, it's kind of cool.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdFHSCqf3fQ
>> >>>
>> >>> Ah, yes. Cancer. What a painless way to go. Of course, you might
>> >>> just end up with a tracheostomy.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cindy Hamilton
>> >>>
>> >>Then again, there are plenty of people who never smoked who died of
>> >>lung
>> >>cancer. Living is a dangerous business.
>> >>
>> >>Jill
>> >
>> >I know three or four people, who smoked, and died of lung cancer. Are
>> >you busy trying to justify smoking?
>>
>> Sheeple have trouble understanding these things. Recent research shows
>> that 25% of heavy smokers don't make it to 65. That's a statistic that
>> counts. Knowing an aunt who smoked until she was a 100 doesn't count.
>> Eating crap all your life and still being alive at 70 also doesn't
>> count.
>
>How much difference does it make if you eat crap until you're
>70 and then stop eating crap? I don't expect anyone to have
>an answer, but it's certainly food for thought.

Yes, it is. Same for smoking. I believe recent research says that
people who quit before they're 35, become as healthy as people who've
never smoked.

==

Interesting. I quit when I was 30!



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 21:27:19 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>"Bruce" wrote in message ...
>
>On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:19:45 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 7:24:12 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

>>> Sheeple have trouble understanding these things. Recent research shows
>>> that 25% of heavy smokers don't make it to 65. That's a statistic that
>>> counts. Knowing an aunt who smoked until she was a 100 doesn't count.
>>> Eating crap all your life and still being alive at 70 also doesn't
>>> count.
>>
>>How much difference does it make if you eat crap until you're
>>70 and then stop eating crap? I don't expect anyone to have
>>an answer, but it's certainly food for thought.
>
>Yes, it is. Same for smoking. I believe recent research says that
>people who quit before they're 35, become as healthy as people who've
>never smoked.
>
>==
>
>Interesting. I quit when I was 30!

That was plenty in time then. I was a mere 15 years late.

On 2017-09-22 12:01 PM, wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 09:59:35 -0600, Sqwerts >
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/22/2017 9:39 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> He fell into a coma and died three days later. He was still moaning.
>>>
>>
>> You ghoul, you made him suffer all the way to Hell.
>
> I'd like to think you'll die slowly and very painfully, then you might
> not consider our methods ghoulish.
>


That asshole is already well on his way. He has to live with himself.

On 9/22/2017 3:43 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2017-09-22 12:01 PM, wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 09:59:35 -0600, Sqwerts >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/22/2017 9:39 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>> He fell into a coma and died three days later. He was still moaning.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You ghoul, you made him suffer all the way to Hell.
>>
>> I'd like to think you'll die slowly and very painfully, then you might
>> not consider our methods ghoulish.
>>
>
>
> That asshole is already well on his way. He has to live with himself.

You big dumb lug nut, suckle up to vinegar tits for all she's worth,
then make some cole slaw!~

In article >,
lid says...
>
> On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 14:29:21 +0100, Janet > wrote:
>
> >In article >, says...
> >> When I was in my 30's I went to a new [to me] dentist. I'd been smoking
> >> since I was a teenager. Got a dental exam, he checked for cavities,
> >> cleaned my teeth and commented "You don't smoke." Uh, yes I do. He
> >> sure couldn't tell. I promise I did not hold my breath for the 30
> >> minutes I was sitting in that dentist's chair. He really could not
> >> tell. Some people have a hyper-sensitive sense of smell.
> >>
> >> When I walk into someone's home I'm more apt to notice scents such as
> >> sprayed air freshener/room deodorizer (or those horrific plug-in things).
> >>
> >
> > I have to damp-wipe-down the dog when he comes back from his
> >dogsitter; always stinking of her cigarette smoke.
>
> People still smoke in the UK?

Is there any country where they don't?

Janet UK

In article >,
says...
>
> On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 13:32:06 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
> >On Mon 18 Sep 2017 03:12:37a, Cindy Hamilton told us...
> >
> >> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 5:49:46 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 10:20:23 AM UTC-10,
> >>> wrote:
> >>> > I used to smoke kool milds, a woman I knew said she thought
> >>> > menthol cigs were the worst for you.
> >>>
> >>> Hopefully, smoking will get popular again. People are living too
> >>> damn long anyway. As an added bonus, it's kind of cool.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdFHSCqf3fQ
> >>
> >> Ah, yes. Cancer. What a painless way to go. Of course, you
> >> might just end up with a tracheostomy.
> >>
> >> Cindy Hamilton
> >>
> >
> >"A painless way to go?" A great many cancer patients suffer
> >excruciating pain, and often they die a very painful death.
>
> It's painless here.

In some circumstances no amount of end-of-life sedation will entirely
suppress the pain of some cancer tumours and their effects. I have
witnessed a truly wretched last day and death in a cancer hospice with
full palliative care.

Janet UK


Near the end when the intense pain begins they
> simply administer huge doses of narcotics. When my friend died of
> lung cancer, she was terrified she would die in pain as her uncle had
> done back in the war years. She didn't, her daughter called me on a
> Thursday and said 'you must come and see her today, tonight they are
> going to start the heavy treatment' - she died on the Saturday.

In article >, says...
>
> "Bruce" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 06:18:54 -0700, "Cheri" >
> > wrote:
> >
> > wrote in message
> . ..
> >>> On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:48:05 -0400, jmcquown >
> >>
> >>>>Then again, there are plenty of people who never smoked who died of lung
> >>>>cancer. Living is a dangerous business.
> >>>>
> >>>>Jill
> >>>
> >>> I know three or four people, who smoked, and died of lung cancer. Are
> >>> you busy trying to justify smoking?
> >>
> >>
> >>I know two who died of lung cancer who never smoked, but did work in the
> >>shipyards during the war. I see nothing in Jill's post that is *trying to
> >>justify smoking* she's just stating a fact.
> >
> > There aren't "plenty" of non smokers who die of lung cancer. There is
> > a small number of them. And there is a much bigger number of smokers
> > that die of it.
>
>
> That is absolutely not true, there are many who die of lung cancer from
> other causes, not as many as smokers, but still many/plenty.
>
> Cheri


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170525/

" Approximately 10 ? 15% of all lung cancers arise in never smokers,
making lung cancer in never smokers one of the leading causes of cancer-
related mortality."

Janet UK

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 04:20:01 +0100, Janet > wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>>
>> On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 14:29:21 +0100, Janet > wrote:
>>
>> >In article >, says...
>> >> When I was in my 30's I went to a new [to me] dentist. I'd been smoking
>> >> since I was a teenager. Got a dental exam, he checked for cavities,
>> >> cleaned my teeth and commented "You don't smoke." Uh, yes I do. He
>> >> sure couldn't tell. I promise I did not hold my breath for the 30
>> >> minutes I was sitting in that dentist's chair. He really could not
>> >> tell. Some people have a hyper-sensitive sense of smell.
>> >>
>> >> When I walk into someone's home I'm more apt to notice scents such as
>> >> sprayed air freshener/room deodorizer (or those horrific plug-in things).
>> >>
>> >
>> > I have to damp-wipe-down the dog when he comes back from his
>> >dogsitter; always stinking of her cigarette smoke.
>>
>> People still smoke in the UK?
>
> Is there any country where they don't?

No, but I thought you lived in a perfect world.

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 04:35:12 +0100, Janet > wrote:

>In article >, says...
>>
>> "Bruce" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 06:18:54 -0700, "Cheri" >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> >>> On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:48:05 -0400, jmcquown >
>> >>
>> >>>>Then again, there are plenty of people who never smoked who died of lung
>> >>>>cancer. Living is a dangerous business.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Jill
>> >>>
>> >>> I know three or four people, who smoked, and died of lung cancer. Are
>> >>> you busy trying to justify smoking?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>I know two who died of lung cancer who never smoked, but did work in the
>> >>shipyards during the war. I see nothing in Jill's post that is *trying to
>> >>justify smoking* she's just stating a fact.
>> >
>> > There aren't "plenty" of non smokers who die of lung cancer. There is
>> > a small number of them. And there is a much bigger number of smokers
>> > that die of it.
>>
>>
>> That is absolutely not true, there are many who die of lung cancer from
>> other causes, not as many as smokers, but still many/plenty.
>>
>> Cheri
>
>
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170525/
>
> " Approximately 10 ? 15% of all lung cancers arise in never smokers,
>making lung cancer in never smokers one of the leading causes of cancer-
>related mortality."

15% versus 85%. Thanks for proving my point.

On 2017-09-22 11:22 PM, Janet wrote:
> In article >,
> says...

>> It's painless here.
>
> In some circumstances no amount of end-of-life sedation will entirely
> suppress the pain of some cancer tumours and their effects. I have
> witnessed a truly wretched last day and death in a cancer hospice with
> full palliative care.

I was not at my sister in law's deathbed, but her long time friend who
sat with her to the end told me that she was in non stop agony for the
last few days. It didn't help that her intestines were impacted as a
result of the heavy doses of pain medication.



>
> Janet UK
>
>
> Near the end when the intense pain begins they
>> simply administer huge doses of narcotics. When my friend died of
>> lung cancer, she was terrified she would die in pain as her uncle had
>> done back in the war years. She didn't, her daughter called me on a
>> Thursday and said 'you must come and see her today, tonight they are
>> going to start the heavy treatment' - she died on the Saturday.
>
>

I used to use Copenhagen snuff but it'd make me sick now I'm sure.

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:13:08 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2017-09-22 11:22 PM, Janet wrote:
>> In article >,
>> says...
>
>>> It's painless here.
>>
>> In some circumstances no amount of end-of-life sedation will entirely
>> suppress the pain of some cancer tumours and their effects. I have
>> witnessed a truly wretched last day and death in a cancer hospice with
>> full palliative care.
>
>I was not at my sister in law's deathbed, but her long time friend who
>sat with her to the end told me that she was in non stop agony for the
>last few days. It didn't help that her intestines were impacted as a
>result of the heavy doses of pain medication.
>
>
>

I cannot think a person here whom I have known, that died with any
sort of pain. There have been several died of cancer but they were
long gone before it was unbearable. Perhaps it is more a fear of the
moment of death. A good friend died of pancreatic cancer and two or
three times she mused about what did I think the actual transition
would be like and I could only say that like her, I really didn't
know.

On 2017-09-23 10:46 AM, wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:13:08 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:

>
> I cannot think a person here whom I have known, that died with any
> sort of pain. There have been several died of cancer but they were
> long gone before it was unbearable. Perhaps it is more a fear of the
> moment of death. A good friend died of pancreatic cancer and two or
> three times she mused about what did I think the actual transition
> would be like and I could only say that like her, I really didn't
> know.

From what I understand, the process can be quite painful as the cells
stop getting sufficient oxygen. There skin's appearance changes and it
gets blotchy. Doctors and nurses can often tell how imminent death is by
the appearance and the rate of change. It's is not always a great idea
to hold a person's hand close to the end because the physical contact
can be quite painful.

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 10:59:17 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2017-09-23 10:46 AM, wrote:
>> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:13:08 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>
>>
>> I cannot think a person here whom I have known, that died with any
>> sort of pain. There have been several died of cancer but they were
>> long gone before it was unbearable. Perhaps it is more a fear of the
>> moment of death. A good friend died of pancreatic cancer and two or
>> three times she mused about what did I think the actual transition
>> would be like and I could only say that like her, I really didn't
>> know.
>
> From what I understand, the process can be quite painful as the cells
>stop getting sufficient oxygen. There skin's appearance changes and it
>gets blotchy. Doctors and nurses can often tell how imminent death is by
>the appearance and the rate of change. It's is not always a great idea
>to hold a person's hand close to the end because the physical contact
>can be quite painful.
>
>
How many times have you actually been with someone at their dying
moment?

On 9/23/2017 7:13 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> I was not at my sister in law's deathbed,

Quelle surprise!

On 9/23/2017 9:24 AM, wrote:
> How many times have you actually been with someone at their dying
> moment?

WTF is up with you old farts?

Sudden worriment on the hereafter?

You should!

> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 10:59:17 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>>On 2017-09-23 10:46 AM, wrote:
>>> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:13:08 -0400, Dave Smith
>>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I cannot think a person here whom I have known, that died with any
>>> sort of pain. There have been several died of cancer but they were
>>> long gone before it was unbearable. Perhaps it is more a fear of the
>>> moment of death. A good friend died of pancreatic cancer and two or
>>> three times she mused about what did I think the actual transition
>>> would be like and I could only say that like her, I really didn't
>>> know.
>>
>> From what I understand, the process can be quite painful as the cells
>>stop getting sufficient oxygen. There skin's appearance changes and it
>>gets blotchy. Doctors and nurses can often tell how imminent death is by
>>the appearance and the rate of change. It's is not always a great idea
>>to hold a person's hand close to the end because the physical contact
>>can be quite painful.
>>
>>
> How many times have you actually been with someone at their dying
> moment?


Not many or we would have heard about every negative reaction of the dying
person, including body size, mental state, smell, etc.

Cheri

"Casa de Masa" > wrote in message
news
> On 9/23/2017 7:13 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> I was not at my sister in law's deathbed,
>
> Quelle surprise!


Which was a blessing for the SIL.

Cheri

On 9/23/2017 10:08 AM, Cheri wrote:
> "Casa de Masa" > wrote in message
> news
>> On 9/23/2017 7:13 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> I was not at my sister in law's deathbed,
>>
>> Quelle surprise!
>
>
> Which was a blessing for the SIL.
>
> Cheri

Lol, sadly...yes...

On 2017-09-23 11:24 AM, wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 10:59:17 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 2017-09-23 10:46 AM, wrote:
>>> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:13:08 -0400, Dave Smith
>>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I cannot think a person here whom I have known, that died with any
>>> sort of pain. There have been several died of cancer but they were
>>> long gone before it was unbearable. Perhaps it is more a fear of the
>>> moment of death. A good friend died of pancreatic cancer and two or
>>> three times she mused about what did I think the actual transition
>>> would be like and I could only say that like her, I really didn't
>>> know.
>>
>> From what I understand, the process can be quite painful as the cells
>> stop getting sufficient oxygen. There skin's appearance changes and it
>> gets blotchy. Doctors and nurses can often tell how imminent death is by
>> the appearance and the rate of change. It's is not always a great idea
>> to hold a person's hand close to the end because the physical contact
>> can be quite painful.
>>
>>
> How many times have you actually been with someone at their dying
> moment?


I was alone with both of my parents when they died.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> wrote:
> > How many times have you actually been with someone at their dying
> > moment?
>
> I was alone with both of my parents when they died.

Not humans but I was actually holding in my arms 3 of my
beloved ferret friends the moment that they died. These
were all my babies and best friends for several years.

I was glad that I was there for them but all haunt me
to this day. It was not good for me. Even once they
died, I continued to hold and talk to them and yes,
cry too. I denied their death until the bodies finally
turned stiff and then I faced the facts.

On 9/23/2017 11:17 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> I was alone with both of my parents when they died.

Pillow or lead pipe?

On 9/23/2017 12:30 PM, Gary wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> wrote:
>>> How many times have you actually been with someone at their dying
>>> moment?
>>
>> I was alone with both of my parents when they died.
>
> Not humans but I was actually holding in my arms 3 of my
> beloved ferret friends the moment that they died. These
> were all my babies and best friends for several years.
>
> I was glad that I was there for them but all haunt me
> to this day. It was not good for me. Even once they
> died, I continued to hold and talk to them and yes,
> cry too. I denied their death until the bodies finally
> turned stiff and then I faced the facts.
>

You have great and genuine compassion - this is a _rare_ and oft times
misunderstood, if not mocked, trait.

Never lose that.

In article >,
says...
>
> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:13:08 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
> >On 2017-09-22 11:22 PM, Janet wrote:
> >> In article >,
> >> says...
> >
> >>> It's painless here.
> >>
> >> In some circumstances no amount of end-of-life sedation will entirely
> >> suppress the pain of some cancer tumours and their effects. I have
> >> witnessed a truly wretched last day and death in a cancer hospice with
> >> full palliative care.
> >
> >I was not at my sister in law's deathbed, but her long time friend who
> >sat with her to the end told me that she was in non stop agony for the
> >last few days. It didn't help that her intestines were impacted as a
> >result of the heavy doses of pain medication.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I cannot think a person here whom I have known, that died with any
> sort of pain.

Were you there with them at the end?

There have been several died of cancer but they were
> long gone before it was unbearable.

How bearable the pain is (or other distressing symptoms), is often
kept very private from friends and bedside visitors. Different story in
the wee small hours.

Janet UK


Perhaps it is more a fear of the
> moment of death. A good friend died of pancreatic cancer and two or
> three times she mused about what did I think the actual transition
> would be like and I could only say that like her, I really didn't
> know.

I have been with several people in their last few hours and as death
took place and it's given me a very firm idea of what I'd like for my
own death

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 14:30:12 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> wrote:
>> > How many times have you actually been with someone at their dying
>> > moment?
>>
>> I was alone with both of my parents when they died.
>
>Not humans but I was actually holding in my arms 3 of my
>beloved ferret friends the moment that they died. These
>were all my babies and best friends for several years.
>
>I was glad that I was there for them but all haunt me
>to this day. It was not good for me. Even once they
>died, I continued to hold and talk to them and yes,
>cry too. I denied their death until the bodies finally
>turned stiff and then I faced the facts.

Most people, just die, sometimes knowing the moment has come,
sometimes not. I realised when I asked Dave, I actually have been
present at six deaths, none of which had people writhing in agony,
albeit 3 were from cancer.

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 19:43:44 +0100, Janet > wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>>
>> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:13:08 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On 2017-09-22 11:22 PM, Janet wrote:
>> >> In article >,
>> >> says...
>> >
>> >>> It's painless here.
>> >>
>> >> In some circumstances no amount of end-of-life sedation will entirely
>> >> suppress the pain of some cancer tumours and their effects. I have
>> >> witnessed a truly wretched last day and death in a cancer hospice with
>> >> full palliative care.
>> >
>> >I was not at my sister in law's deathbed, but her long time friend who
>> >sat with her to the end told me that she was in non stop agony for the
>> >last few days. It didn't help that her intestines were impacted as a
>> >result of the heavy doses of pain medication.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I cannot think a person here whom I have known, that died with any
>> sort of pain.
>
> Were you there with them at the end?
>
> There have been several died of cancer but they were
>> long gone before it was unbearable.
>
> How bearable the pain is (or other distressing symptoms), is often
>kept very private from friends and bedside visitors. Different story in
>the wee small hours.
>
> Janet UK
I think that is a figment of your imagination - you are in fact saying
that the medical staff somehow change their reaction in the night when
nobody is observing.
>
> Perhaps it is more a fear of the
>> moment of death. A good friend died of pancreatic cancer and two or
>> three times she mused about what did I think the actual transition
>> would be like and I could only say that like her, I really didn't
>> know.
>
> I have been with several people in their last few hours and as death
>took place and it's given me a very firm idea of what I'd like for my
>own death

You don't really come over as a comforting person to be with a dying
person.

On 9/23/2017 1:30 PM, wrote:
> I actually have been
> present at six deaths, none of which had people writhing in agony,
> albeit 3 were from cancer.

Black widow syndrome.

In article >,
says...
>
> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 19:43:44 +0100, Janet > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> says...
> >>
> >> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:13:08 -0400, Dave Smith
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 2017-09-22 11:22 PM, Janet wrote:
> >> >> In article >,
> >> >> says...
> >> >
> >> >>> It's painless here.
> >> >>
> >> >> In some circumstances no amount of end-of-life sedation will entirely
> >> >> suppress the pain of some cancer tumours and their effects. I have
> >> >> witnessed a truly wretched last day and death in a cancer hospice with
> >> >> full palliative care.
> >> >
> >> >I was not at my sister in law's deathbed, but her long time friend who
> >> >sat with her to the end told me that she was in non stop agony for the
> >> >last few days. It didn't help that her intestines were impacted as a
> >> >result of the heavy doses of pain medication.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> I cannot think a person here whom I have known, that died with any
> >> sort of pain.
> >
> > Were you there with them at the end?
> >
> > There have been several died of cancer but they were
> >> long gone before it was unbearable.
> >
> > How bearable the pain is (or other distressing symptoms), is often
> >kept very private from friends and bedside visitors. Different story in
> >the wee small hours.
> >
> > Janet UK
> I think that is a figment of your imagination

no, it's well recognised in studies of dying people.

https://tinyurl.com/y9jjk6eo

"The inner life of dying people"

p 81, para 3.


- you are in fact saying
> that the medical staff somehow change their reaction in the night when
> nobody is observing.

? No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about the behaviour of
people who are dying, some of whom conceal their suffering from friends
and visitors.

> You don't really come over as a comforting person to be with a dying
> person.

You're too late to ask them.


Janet UK