On 2017-10-27 10:56 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2017-10-26, l not -l > wrote:
>
>> I hope it thickened properly, this was my first time thickening
>> with tapioca.
>
> I recently made a black/blue-berry pie. I'd changed from using
> "Instant Tapioca" to using "tapioca flour", as per this "frozen"
> blueberry recipe from AB:
>
> <http://altonbrown.com/frozen-blueberry-pie-recipe/>
>
> Turns out my "tapioca flour" did NOT thicken the pie, fer dammit! It
> was "old" tapioca flour, bought almost 2 yrs ago. Am I correct in
> assuming "tapioca flour" loses it's thickening ability, after awhile?

I have used old tapioca and not had a problem. I usually let the tapioca
sit in the fruit for a while to soak before cooking, but I use minute
tapioca.

On 2017-10-27, > wrote:

> I don't recall anyone suggesting using Tapioca flour, my container is
> for Minute Tapioca and still good.

That's why I posted the link. I've found Minute/Instant Tapioca does
not fully hydrate when I use it in a pie. That's the reason I changed
to 'tapioca flour'(Bob's Red Mill).

It worked, fine, when I first used it, which was to thicken a
blue/black-berry pie. I also added some minced pickled ginger
(sushi-style, about 2 T) fer flavor, as most blueberries have none.

Much better!

nb

On 10/27/2017 9:42 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2017-10-26 11:22 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:05:24 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>
>>> It beats me why anyone would bother to offer any suggestions to her.
>>> They would just give her the opportunity to post about why she can't do
>>> those things.Â* We have all been there and done that.Â* Yet, people here
>>> still seem to get sucked into responding and getting shot down.
>>
>> Are you aware that you've been on repeat for a couple of years?
>>
>
> I am on repeat??? I have been exposed to her antics for years. People
> keep replying to her as if she is normal and get sucked into offering
> the advice she seeks, and then hearing about why that won't work for
> her.Â* I am not the only one on repeat.

Julie is Julie, everyone has an opinion about her so do as you see fit.
While she may not take advice, the thread can bear other fruits. A good
recipe may be posted and be of interest to the rest of us, even if she
chooses to ignore.

The same people do reply to her, me included, and the same people
complain about her, you included. Has it had good results or is it time
wasted? Best to kill file and ignore if not interested.

On 2017-10-27 11:06 AM, wrote:

>
> I don't recall anyone suggesting using Tapioca flour, my container is
> for Minute Tapioca and still good.
>

That summer I had trouble finding minute tapioca. I ended up finding
some Clubhouse, which seems to be a little finer and less consistent
than the Kraft that I used to get. It worked okay in pies, but was not
as good in pudding. I am still having trouble finding pearl tapioca.
Even the Asian/ Caribbean store I frequent now has only the bubble tea size.

On 10/26/2017 7:30 PM, graham wrote:
> On 2017-10-26 3:37 PM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
>> On 10/26/2017 11:17 AM, graham wrote:
>>> On 2017-10-26 10:52 AM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
>>>> On 10/26/2017 8:55 AM, notbob wrote:
>>>>> On 2017-10-26, cshenk > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey, I got to many grapes some time back.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Any ideas there?
>>>>>
>>>>> Julia Childs did a baking show (Baking With Julia?) where she had on
>>>>> some pro baker lady who used grape skins to derive her sourdough
>>>>> starter yeast.Â* IOW, her guest got the natural yeast present on some
>>>>> of the grape skins.Â* You might be able to find that particular episode
>>>>> online.Â*
>>>>>
>>>>> nb
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wow, SUPERB tip, nb!
>>>>
>>>> TNX, been thinking about sourdough since I saw the episode on ATK a
>>>> week back.
>>>
>>> Actually, those yeast cells will be replaced by the strain that is on
>>> the wheat grains and therefore in the flour. After all, wine yeast is
>>> different to beer yeast and this is an analogous situation.
>>> Graham
>>
>>
>> Thanks for clarifying!
>>
>> The key, as ATK tells it, is to keep diluting that flour slurry down
>> as it grows generation by generation.
>>
>> A laborious process, one I say most folks won't take the time for,
>> even an avid baker like CSchenk.
>
> It's not laborious really. You just have to feed the starter at
> intervals until it becomes vigorous enough to use in bread making. After
> that, it has to be fed to maintain it. US sourdough is based on a
> starter with equal weights of flour and water, making a batter. The
> French method, which is not so sour, uses about 65g water to 100g of flour.
> Graham

Point is that one has to stay on it and regularly feed and dilute it -
not the kind of thing most folks will make time for.

On 10/26/2017 7:36 PM, graham wrote:
> On 2017-10-26 4:48 PM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
>> On 10/26/2017 1:46 PM, Boron wrote:
>>> On 26 Oct 2017 19:38:56 GMT, notbob > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-10-26, graham > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2017-10-26 1:09 PM, Boron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2017 14:55:22 GMT, notbob > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> That show was with Nancy Silverton of the La Brea Bakery. (long, long
>>>>>> since sold by her).
>>>>
>>>> Thank goodness!Â* I was never sure what La Brea Bakery was all about.
>>>> Sending out frozen dough loaves?Â* I was never impressed.Â* 8|
>>>>
>>>>>> Truly, though, all one needs to create a decent sourdough starter is
>>>>>> flour, water and patience.
>>>>
>>>>> There's so much folklore and so little science peddled by sour dough
>>>>> enthusiasts.
>>>>
>>>> Gotta go with Boron with this one.Â* What's yer track record?Â*
>>>>
>>>> nb
>>>
>>> Graham was agreeing with me, I believe. He's a lot of sourdough
>>> experience behind him and the pretty much defunct SD group, in which
>>> we participated, used to have a lot of debunking discussion about the
>>> kinds of ingredients some folks liked to push to create/maintain
>>> starters.
>>>
>>
>> So was ATK right that sourdough derives primarily from local
>> atmospheric yeast molds?
>>
>> And if so is it useless to take a sourdough culture from one local to
>> another?
>>
>>
> Actually, that is another piece of folklore. The yeast and bacteria are
> in the wheat so you might get some variation in balance with different
> wheats. Carls's SD culture is sent all over the world. Another example,
> Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis that makes that sourdough famous is NOT
> unique to San Francisco but is found world wide.
> Graham


So there is no specific (sp?) terroire to the atmospheric molds and
bacteria?

I dunno...

On 10/26/2017 9:09 PM, Bruce wrote:
> Don't bother. One electroshock session and he'll have forgotten
> everything you told him.

EAT SHIT AND DIE YOU AUZTARDED TROLL TURDBUCKET!

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
news
> On 10/27/2017 9:42 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2017-10-26 11:22 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:05:24 -0400, Dave Smith
>>> > wrote:
>>
>>>> It beats me why anyone would bother to offer any suggestions to her.
>>>> They would just give her the opportunity to post about why she can't do
>>>> those things. We have all been there and done that. Yet, people here
>>>> still seem to get sucked into responding and getting shot down.
>>>
>>> Are you aware that you've been on repeat for a couple of years?
>>>
>>
>> I am on repeat??? I have been exposed to her antics for years. People
>> keep replying to her as if she is normal and get sucked into offering the
>> advice she seeks, and then hearing about why that won't work for her. I
>> am not the only one on repeat.
>
> Julie is Julie, everyone has an opinion about her so do as you see fit.
> While she may not take advice, the thread can bear other fruits. A good
> recipe may be posted and be of interest to the rest of us, even if she
> chooses to ignore.
>
> The same people do reply to her, me included, and the same people complain
> about her, you included. Has it had good results or is it time wasted?
> Best to kill file and ignore if not interested.


It's simply not possible for Dave to ignore her, he's proven that over and
over and over, and I imagine it's just about time for him to trot out the
"sisterhood of stupidity" thing, or something really original like *bovine.*
One trick pony, always bitching about something.

Cheri

On 10/26/2017 9:22 PM, Bruce wrote:
> Are you aware that you've been on repeat for a couple of years?

EAT SHIT AND DIE YOU AUZTARDED TROLL TURDBUCKET!

On 10/27/2017 4:25 AM, Bruce wrote:
>> At least I have you, Bruce!
> Every cloud has a silver lining!
EAT SHIT AND DIE YOU AUZTARDED TROLL TURDBUCKET!

On 10/27/2017 6:16 AM, Gary wrote:
> Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> At least I have you, Bruce!
>
> I suspect Bruce is jealous of your gardener.
>
One thing they have in common, lots of time spent on their knees...

On 10/27/2017 8:38 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 8:15:06 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>> Ohhhhhh. Not really a liquor person here. I did have Everclear once. Don't
>>> care to remember.
>>
>> Jet fuel.
>
> My husband uses it as a lens cleaner, since it's so pure.
>
> I'm not so exacting. I use denatured alcohol to clean the shower doors.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

Ever try WD40?

Odd, but it works.

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 8:38:29 AM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 8:15:06 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> > Julie Bove wrote:
> > >
> > > Ohhhhhh. Not really a liquor person here. I did have Everclear once. Don't
> > > care to remember.
> >
> > Jet fuel.
>
> My husband uses it as a lens cleaner, since it's so pure.
>
> I'm not so exacting. I use denatured alcohol to clean the shower doors.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

Denatured alcohol has added ingredients (usually bitter, so I've been told).
This so that alkies who will drink anything containing alcohol will desist.
Un-denatured alcohol is cheaper and will clean just as well.
====

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 15:30:42 GMT, "l not -l" > wrote:

>
>On 27-Oct-2017, wrote:
>
>> On 2017-10-27 10:56 AM, notbob wrote:
>> > On 2017-10-26, l not -l > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I hope it thickened properly, this was my first time
>> >> thickening
>> >> with tapioca.
>> >
>> > I recently made a black/blue-berry pie. I'd changed from
>> > using
>> > "Instant Tapioca" to using "tapioca flour", as per this
>> > "frozen"
>> > blueberry recipe from AB:
>> >
>> > <http://altonbrown.com/frozen-blueberry-pie-recipe/>
>> >
>> > Turns out my "tapioca flour" did NOT thicken the pie, fer
>> > dammit! It
>> > was "old" tapioca flour, bought almost 2 yrs ago. Am I
>> > correct in
>> > assuming "tapioca flour" loses it's thickening ability, after
>> > awhile?
>>
>> I have used old tapioca and not had a problem. I usually let
>> the tapioca
>> sit in the fruit for a while to soak before cooking, but I use
>> minute
>> tapioca.
>I have read that minute tapioca needs to be mixed with the fruit,
>then sit for 15-20 minutes to hydrate before baking. I did that,
>at least 20 minutes hydrating, and my raspberry pie's filling
>turned out perfectly set.

True enough, notbob did not say whether he restrained himself for
20mins

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 7:41:32 AM UTC-6, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2017-10-26 11:22 PM, Bruce wrote:
> > On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:05:24 -0400, Dave Smith
> > > wrote:
>
> >> It beats me why anyone would bother to offer any suggestions to her.
> >> They would just give her the opportunity to post about why she can't do
> >> those things. We have all been there and done that. Yet, people here
> >> still seem to get sucked into responding and getting shot down.
> >
> > Are you aware that you've been on repeat for a couple of years?
> >
>
> I am on repeat??? I have been exposed to her antics for years. People
> keep replying to her as if she is normal and get sucked into offering
> the advice she seeks, and then hearing about why that won't work for
> her. I am not the only one on repeat.

Yep, ever once in a while I fall off the wagon and respond to her calls for
help. Nearly always these "solutions" are rejected as they don't apply to
her family situation.
What irks me the most are these "someone" or somebody who does things when the
only other people in her house are her husband and daughter. She won't pinpoint
the culprit for some un-godly reason and never responds to them with any chastisement or censure.
====

On 2017-10-27, > wrote:

> True enough, notbob did not say whether he restrained himself for
> 20mins

I tried that. Still had sand-sized grains of unmelted Minute
Tapioca.

I think the reason why my 'tapioca flour' did not work is cuz I did
not let the fruit defrost, first. 8|

nb

On 10/27/2017 10:34 AM, Cheri wrote:
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> news
>> On 10/27/2017 9:42 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> On 2017-10-26 11:22 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:05:24 -0400, Dave Smith
>>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It beats me why anyone would bother to offer any suggestions to her.
>>>>> They would just give her the opportunity to post about why she
>>>>> can't do
>>>>> those things. We have all been there and done that. Yet, people here
>>>>> still seem to get sucked into responding and getting shot down.
>>>>
>>>> Are you aware that you've been on repeat for a couple of years?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I am on repeat??? I have been exposed to her antics for years. People
>>> keep replying to her as if she is normal and get sucked into offering
>>> the advice she seeks, and then hearing about why that won't work for
>>> her. I am not the only one on repeat.
>>
>> Julie is Julie, everyone has an opinion about her so do as you see
>> fit. While she may not take advice, the thread can bear other fruits.
>> A good recipe may be posted and be of interest to the rest of us, even
>> if she chooses to ignore.
>>
>> The same people do reply to her, me included, and the same people
>> complain about her, you included.* Has it had good results or is it
>> time wasted? Best to kill file and ignore if not interested.
>
>
> It's simply not possible for Dave to ignore her, he's proven that over
> and over and over, and I imagine it's just about time for him to trot
> out the "sisterhood of stupidity" thing, or something really original
> like *bovine.* One trick pony, always bitching about something.
>
> Cheri


You've been paying attention I see...

;-)

On 2017-10-27 10:30 AM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
> On 10/26/2017 7:30 PM, graham wrote:
>> On 2017-10-26 3:37 PM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
>>> On 10/26/2017 11:17 AM, graham wrote:
>>>> On 2017-10-26 10:52 AM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
>>>>> On 10/26/2017 8:55 AM, notbob wrote:
>>>>>> On 2017-10-26, cshenk > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey, I got to many grapes some time back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any ideas there?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Julia Childs did a baking show (Baking With Julia?) where she had on
>>>>>> some pro baker lady who used grape skins to derive her sourdough
>>>>>> starter yeast.Â* IOW, her guest got the natural yeast present on some
>>>>>> of the grape skins.Â* You might be able to find that particular
>>>>>> episode
>>>>>> online.Â*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> nb
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow, SUPERB tip, nb!
>>>>>
>>>>> TNX, been thinking about sourdough since I saw the episode on ATK a
>>>>> week back.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, those yeast cells will be replaced by the strain that is
>>>> on the wheat grains and therefore in the flour. After all, wine
>>>> yeast is different to beer yeast and this is an analogous situation.
>>>> Graham
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for clarifying!
>>>
>>> The key, as ATK tells it, is to keep diluting that flour slurry down
>>> as it grows generation by generation.
>>>
>>> A laborious process, one I say most folks won't take the time for,
>>> even an avid baker like CSchenk.
>>
>> It's not laborious really. You just have to feed the starter at
>> intervals until it becomes vigorous enough to use in bread making.
>> After that, it has to be fed to maintain it. US sourdough is based on
>> a starter with equal weights of flour and water, making a batter. The
>> French method, which is not so sour, uses about 65g water to 100g of
>> flour.
>> Graham
>
> Point is that one has to stay on it and regularly feed and dilute it -
> not the kind of thing most folks will make time for.

Again, there's a bit of folklore about feeding. SD enthusiasts maintain
that one should feed the starter on at least a weekly basis otherwise
the critters will die. That's nonsense of course. I often leave mine for
months between feedings. They also believe in stirring in the "hooch"
that is present on top of the starter at feeding time. That's alcoholic
and not good for the bugs so poor it off.
Graham

On 2017-10-27 10:31 AM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
> On 10/26/2017 7:36 PM, graham wrote:
>> On 2017-10-26 4:48 PM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
>>> On 10/26/2017 1:46 PM, Boron wrote:
>>>> On 26 Oct 2017 19:38:56 GMT, notbob > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2017-10-26, graham > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2017-10-26 1:09 PM, Boron wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2017 14:55:22 GMT, notbob > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> That show was with Nancy Silverton of the La Brea Bakery. (long,
>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>> since sold by her).
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank goodness!Â* I was never sure what La Brea Bakery was all about.
>>>>> Sending out frozen dough loaves?Â* I was never impressed.Â* 8|
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Truly, though, all one needs to create a decent sourdough starter is
>>>>>>> flour, water and patience.
>>>>>
>>>>>> There's so much folklore and so little science peddled by sour dough
>>>>>> enthusiasts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gotta go with Boron with this one.Â* What's yer track record?Â*
>>>>>
>>>>> nb
>>>>
>>>> Graham was agreeing with me, I believe. He's a lot of sourdough
>>>> experience behind him and the pretty much defunct SD group, in which
>>>> we participated, used to have a lot of debunking discussion about the
>>>> kinds of ingredients some folks liked to push to create/maintain
>>>> starters.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So was ATK right that sourdough derives primarily from local
>>> atmospheric yeast molds?
>>>
>>> And if so is it useless to take a sourdough culture from one local to
>>> another?
>>>
>>>
>> Actually, that is another piece of folklore. The yeast and bacteria
>> are in the wheat so you might get some variation in balance with
>> different wheats. Carls's SD culture is sent all over the world.
>> Another example, Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis that makes that
>> sourdough famous is NOT unique to San Francisco but is found world wide.
>> Graham
>
>
> So there is no specific (sp?) terroire to the atmospheric molds and
> bacteria?
>
> I dunno...
I don't think so. Leader, in his book "Bread Alone" adds a pinch of
commercial yeast when he wants to make a new starter "to attract the
wild yeasts"! Just another bit of SD bunkum.

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 5:17:43 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Julie is Julie, everyone has an opinion about her so do as you see fit.
> While she may not take advice, the thread can bear other fruits. A good
> recipe may be posted and be of interest to the rest of us, even if she
> chooses to ignore.
>
> The same people do reply to her, me included, and the same people
> complain about her, you included. Has it had good results or is it time
> wasted? Best to kill file and ignore if not interested.

The folks here love to diddle around with their kill file. They keep it shiny and bright. The ignore part, however, is quite impossible. That's the breaks.

On 10/27/2017 11:25 AM, graham wrote:
> On 2017-10-27 10:30 AM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
>> On 10/26/2017 7:30 PM, graham wrote:
>>> On 2017-10-26 3:37 PM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
>>>> On 10/26/2017 11:17 AM, graham wrote:
>>>>> On 2017-10-26 10:52 AM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/26/2017 8:55 AM, notbob wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2017-10-26, cshenk > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey, I got to many grapes some time back.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any ideas there?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Julia Childs did a baking show (Baking With Julia?) where she had on
>>>>>>> some pro baker lady who used grape skins to derive her sourdough
>>>>>>> starter yeast.Â* IOW, her guest got the natural yeast present on some
>>>>>>> of the grape skins.Â* You might be able to find that particular
>>>>>>> episode
>>>>>>> online.Â*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> nb
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow, SUPERB tip, nb!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TNX, been thinking about sourdough since I saw the episode on ATK
>>>>>> a week back.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, those yeast cells will be replaced by the strain that is
>>>>> on the wheat grains and therefore in the flour. After all, wine
>>>>> yeast is different to beer yeast and this is an analogous situation.
>>>>> Graham
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for clarifying!
>>>>
>>>> The key, as ATK tells it, is to keep diluting that flour slurry down
>>>> as it grows generation by generation.
>>>>
>>>> A laborious process, one I say most folks won't take the time for,
>>>> even an avid baker like CSchenk.
>>>
>>> It's not laborious really. You just have to feed the starter at
>>> intervals until it becomes vigorous enough to use in bread making.
>>> After that, it has to be fed to maintain it. US sourdough is based on
>>> a starter with equal weights of flour and water, making a batter. The
>>> French method, which is not so sour, uses about 65g water to 100g of
>>> flour.
>>> Graham
>>
>> Point is that one has to stay on it and regularly feed and dilute it -
>> not the kind of thing most folks will make time for.
>
> Again, there's a bit of folklore about feeding. SD enthusiasts maintain
> that one should feed the starter on at least a weekly basis otherwise
> the critters will die. That's nonsense of course. I often leave mine for
> months between feedings. They also believe in stirring in the "hooch"
> that is present on top of the starter at feeding time. That's alcoholic
> and not good for the bugs so poor it off.
> Graham


Can you please detail your personal process for us?

Sounds like you have it pretty well-sussed by now.

On 10/27/2017 11:28 AM, graham wrote:
> On 2017-10-27 10:31 AM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
>> On 10/26/2017 7:36 PM, graham wrote:
>>> On 2017-10-26 4:48 PM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
>>>> On 10/26/2017 1:46 PM, Boron wrote:
>>>>> On 26 Oct 2017 19:38:56 GMT, notbob > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2017-10-26, graham > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2017-10-26 1:09 PM, Boron wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2017 14:55:22 GMT, notbob > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That show was with Nancy Silverton of the La Brea Bakery. (long,
>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>> since sold by her).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank goodness!Â* I was never sure what La Brea Bakery was all about.
>>>>>> Sending out frozen dough loaves?Â* I was never impressed.Â* 8|
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Truly, though, all one needs to create a decent sourdough
>>>>>>>> starter is
>>>>>>>> flour, water and patience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's so much folklore and so little science peddled by sour dough
>>>>>>> enthusiasts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gotta go with Boron with this one.Â* What's yer track record?Â*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> nb
>>>>>
>>>>> Graham was agreeing with me, I believe. He's a lot of sourdough
>>>>> experience behind him and the pretty much defunct SD group, in which
>>>>> we participated, used to have a lot of debunking discussion about the
>>>>> kinds of ingredients some folks liked to push to create/maintain
>>>>> starters.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So was ATK right that sourdough derives primarily from local
>>>> atmospheric yeast molds?
>>>>
>>>> And if so is it useless to take a sourdough culture from one local
>>>> to another?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Actually, that is another piece of folklore. The yeast and bacteria
>>> are in the wheat so you might get some variation in balance with
>>> different wheats. Carls's SD culture is sent all over the world.
>>> Another example, Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis that makes that
>>> sourdough famous is NOT unique to San Francisco but is found world wide.
>>> Graham
>>
>>
>> So there is no specific (sp?) terroire to the atmospheric molds and
>> bacteria?
>>
>> I dunno...
> I don't think so. Leader, in his book "Bread Alone" adds a pinch of
> commercial yeast when he wants to make a new starter "to attract the
> wild yeasts"! Just another bit of SD bunkum.

Wow, who knew there was that much disinformation on such a nominally
simple process?

On 10/27/2017 11:40 AM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 5:17:43 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> Julie is Julie, everyone has an opinion about her so do as you see fit.
>> While she may not take advice, the thread can bear other fruits. A good
>> recipe may be posted and be of interest to the rest of us, even if she
>> chooses to ignore.
>>
>> The same people do reply to her, me included, and the same people
>> complain about her, you included. Has it had good results or is it time
>> wasted? Best to kill file and ignore if not interested.
>
> The folks here love to diddle around with their kill file. They keep it shiny and bright. The ignore part, however, is quite impossible. That's the breaks.
>

Ding!

On 2017-10-27 11:46 AM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
> On 10/27/2017 11:25 AM, graham wrote:
>> On 2017-10-27 10:30 AM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
>>> On 10/26/2017 7:30 PM, graham wrote:
>>>> On 2017-10-26 3:37 PM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
>>>>> On 10/26/2017 11:17 AM, graham wrote:
>>>>>> On 2017-10-26 10:52 AM, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/26/2017 8:55 AM, notbob wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2017-10-26, cshenk > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hey, I got to many grapes some time back.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any ideas there?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Julia Childs did a baking show (Baking With Julia?) where she
>>>>>>>> had on
>>>>>>>> some pro baker lady who used grape skins to derive her sourdough
>>>>>>>> starter yeast.Â* IOW, her guest got the natural yeast present on
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> of the grape skins.Â* You might be able to find that particular
>>>>>>>> episode
>>>>>>>> online.Â*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> nb
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wow, SUPERB tip, nb!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TNX, been thinking about sourdough since I saw the episode on ATK
>>>>>>> a week back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, those yeast cells will be replaced by the strain that is
>>>>>> on the wheat grains and therefore in the flour. After all, wine
>>>>>> yeast is different to beer yeast and this is an analogous situation.
>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for clarifying!
>>>>>
>>>>> The key, as ATK tells it, is to keep diluting that flour slurry
>>>>> down as it grows generation by generation.
>>>>>
>>>>> A laborious process, one I say most folks won't take the time for,
>>>>> even an avid baker like CSchenk.
>>>>
>>>> It's not laborious really. You just have to feed the starter at
>>>> intervals until it becomes vigorous enough to use in bread making.
>>>> After that, it has to be fed to maintain it. US sourdough is based
>>>> on a starter with equal weights of flour and water, making a batter.
>>>> The French method, which is not so sour, uses about 65g water to
>>>> 100g of flour.
>>>> Graham
>>>
>>> Point is that one has to stay on it and regularly feed and dilute it
>>> - not the kind of thing most folks will make time for.
>>
>> Again, there's a bit of folklore about feeding. SD enthusiasts
>> maintain that one should feed the starter on at least a weekly basis
>> otherwise the critters will die. That's nonsense of course. I often
>> leave mine for months between feedings. They also believe in stirring
>> in the "hooch" that is present on top of the starter at feeding time.
>> That's alcoholic and not good for the bugs so poor it off.
>> Graham
>
>
> Can you please detail your personal process for us?
>
> Sounds like you have it pretty well-sussed by now.

I'm afraid it's in grams but the weight % is important.
To start:
Mix a Tbsp of rye flour and 3 Tbsp of whole wheat flour with enough
water to make a stiff dough. Put in a small bowl and cover with plastic
wrap and leave in a warm place for a couple of days.
When you pull it apart, it should be full of holes.
Measure out 35g water and 50g white flour.
Add the water to the dough to break it up and then mix in the flour.
Cover and leave in a warm place for about 8 hours or overnight - it's
not critical. It should have risen.
Discard about half of the mix and add water and flour as above and leave
as above.
Repeat 2 or 3 times by which time it should be quite vigorous and rise
to double in size.
You can then use it to make bread.
That's MY method that I prefer as the bread has a more complex flavour
and is not noticeably sour.
If you prefer the San Francisco style, follow the above process but use
equal weights of flour and water in the refreshments.
HTH
Graham

"Cheri" wrote in message news
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
news
> On 10/27/2017 9:42 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2017-10-26 11:22 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:05:24 -0400, Dave Smith
>>> > wrote:
>>
>>>> It beats me why anyone would bother to offer any suggestions to her.
>>>> They would just give her the opportunity to post about why she can't do
>>>> those things. We have all been there and done that. Yet, people here
>>>> still seem to get sucked into responding and getting shot down.
>>>
>>> Are you aware that you've been on repeat for a couple of years?
>>>
>>
>> I am on repeat??? I have been exposed to her antics for years. People
>> keep replying to her as if she is normal and get sucked into offering the
>> advice she seeks, and then hearing about why that won't work for her. I
>> am not the only one on repeat.
>
> Julie is Julie, everyone has an opinion about her so do as you see fit.
> While she may not take advice, the thread can bear other fruits. A good
> recipe may be posted and be of interest to the rest of us, even if she
> chooses to ignore.
>
> The same people do reply to her, me included, and the same people complain
> about her, you included. Has it had good results or is it time wasted?
> Best to kill file and ignore if not interested.


It's simply not possible for Dave to ignore her, he's proven that over and
over and over, and I imagine it's just about time for him to trot out the
"sisterhood of stupidity" thing, or something really original like *bovine.*
One trick pony, always bitching about something.

Cheri

==

Yes.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 09:42:44 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2017-10-26 11:22 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:05:24 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>
>>> It beats me why anyone would bother to offer any suggestions to her.
>>> They would just give her the opportunity to post about why she can't do
>>> those things. We have all been there and done that. Yet, people here
>>> still seem to get sucked into responding and getting shot down.
>>
>> Are you aware that you've been on repeat for a couple of years?
>>
>
>I am on repeat??? I have been exposed to her antics for years. People
>keep replying to her as if she is normal and get sucked into offering
>the advice she seeks, and then hearing about why that won't work for
>her. I am not the only one on repeat.

And now you repeat yourself again. Repetitis.

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 11:12:06 -0600, Casa de los peregrinos
> wrote:

>On 10/27/2017 10:34 AM, Cheri wrote:
>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>> news
>>> On 10/27/2017 9:42 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>> On 2017-10-26 11:22 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you aware that you've been on repeat for a couple of years?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am on repeat??? I have been exposed to her antics for years. People
>>>> keep replying to her as if she is normal and get sucked into offering
>>>> the advice she seeks, and then hearing about why that won't work for
>>>> her. I am not the only one on repeat.
>>>
>>> Julie is Julie, everyone has an opinion about her so do as you see
>>> fit. While she may not take advice, the thread can bear other fruits.
>>> A good recipe may be posted and be of interest to the rest of us, even
>>> if she chooses to ignore.
>>>
>>> The same people do reply to her, me included, and the same people
>>> complain about her, you included.* Has it had good results or is it
>>> time wasted? Best to kill file and ignore if not interested.
>>
>>
>> It's simply not possible for Dave to ignore her, he's proven that over
>> and over and over, and I imagine it's just about time for him to trot
>> out the "sisterhood of stupidity" thing, or something really original
>> like *bovine.* One trick pony, always bitching about something.
>>
>> Cheri
>
>
>You've been paying attention I see...
>
>;-)

Agreement humping whilst making sucking sounds.

On 27 Oct 2017 14:56:08 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>On 2017-10-26, l not -l > wrote:
>
>> I hope it thickened properly, this was my first time thickening with
>> tapioca.
>
>I recently made a black/blue-berry pie. I'd changed from using
>"Instant Tapioca" to using "tapioca flour", as per this "frozen"
>blueberry recipe from AB:
>
><http://altonbrown.com/frozen-blueberry-pie-recipe/>
>
>Turns out my "tapioca flour" did NOT thicken the pie, fer dammit! It was "old"
>tapioca flour, bought almost 2 yrs ago. Am I correct in assuming "tapioca
>flour" loses it's thickening ability, after awhile? 8|
>
>nb

I don't know about old. Do you have to let the fruit/tapioca flour
mixture sit for 15 minutes the same as you do with Instant
tapioca/fruit mixture? I Googled and couldn't find a satisfactory
answer. Sorry
Janet US

On 27 Oct 2017 15:16:54 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>On 2017-10-27, > wrote:
>
>> I don't recall anyone suggesting using Tapioca flour, my container is
>> for Minute Tapioca and still good.
>
>That's why I posted the link. I've found Minute/Instant Tapioca does
>not fully hydrate when I use it in a pie. That's the reason I changed
>to 'tapioca flour'(Bob's Red Mill).
>
>It worked, fine, when I first used it, which was to thicken a
>blue/black-berry pie. I also added some minced pickled ginger
>(sushi-style, about 2 T) fer flavor, as most blueberries have none.
>
>Much better!
>
>nb

Are you letting the fruit/sugar/instant tapioca mixture sit for 15
minutes before you fill the pie shell and before you bake? Very
Important!
Janet US

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 11:16:25 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2017-10-27 10:56 AM, notbob wrote:
>> On 2017-10-26, l not -l > wrote:
>>
>>> I hope it thickened properly, this was my first time thickening
>>> with tapioca.
>>
>> I recently made a black/blue-berry pie. I'd changed from using
>> "Instant Tapioca" to using "tapioca flour", as per this "frozen"
>> blueberry recipe from AB:
>>
>> <http://altonbrown.com/frozen-blueberry-pie-recipe/>
>>
>> Turns out my "tapioca flour" did NOT thicken the pie, fer dammit! It
>> was "old" tapioca flour, bought almost 2 yrs ago. Am I correct in
>> assuming "tapioca flour" loses it's thickening ability, after awhile?
>
>I have used old tapioca and not had a problem. I usually let the tapioca
>sit in the fruit for a while to soak before cooking, but I use minute
>tapioca.
>
>
Letting the mixture sit for 15 minutes is called for in the pie making
instructions on the side of the box. Then it thickens nicely,
Janet US

On 2017-10-27, U.S Janet B > wrote:

Thank you for yer help, Janet, but it's not yer problem.

I'll figure it out.

nb

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
> On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 5:17:43 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> Julie is Julie, everyone has an opinion about her so do as you see fit.
>> While she may not take advice, the thread can bear other fruits. A good
>> recipe may be posted and be of interest to the rest of us, even if she
>> chooses to ignore.
>>
>> The same people do reply to her, me included, and the same people
>> complain about her, you included. Has it had good results or is it time
>> wasted? Best to kill file and ignore if not interested.
>
> The folks here love to diddle around with their kill file. They keep it
> shiny and bright. The ignore part, however, is quite impossible. That's
> the breaks.

=====

And some have a need to name those in their killfiles at every opportunity,
almost as lame as public plonking IMO.

Cheri

On 10/27/2017 12:47 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 09:42:44 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 2017-10-26 11:22 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:05:24 -0400, Dave Smith
>>> > wrote:
>>
>>>> It beats me why anyone would bother to offer any suggestions to her.
>>>> They would just give her the opportunity to post about why she can't do
>>>> those things. We have all been there and done that. Yet, people here
>>>> still seem to get sucked into responding and getting shot down.
>>>
>>> Are you aware that you've been on repeat for a couple of years?
>>>
>>
>> I am on repeat??? I have been exposed to her antics for years. People
>> keep replying to her as if she is normal and get sucked into offering
>> the advice she seeks, and then hearing about why that won't work for
>> her. I am not the only one on repeat.
>
> And now you repeat yourself again. Repetitis.
>

Says the repeater troll...

On 10/27/2017 12:48 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 11:12:06 -0600, Casa de los peregrinos
> > wrote:
>
>> On 10/27/2017 10:34 AM, Cheri wrote:
>>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>>> news >>>> On 10/27/2017 9:42 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>> On 2017-10-26 11:22 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you aware that you've been on repeat for a couple of years?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am on repeat??? I have been exposed to her antics for years. People
>>>>> keep replying to her as if she is normal and get sucked into offering
>>>>> the advice she seeks, and then hearing about why that won't work for
>>>>> her. I am not the only one on repeat.
>>>>
>>>> Julie is Julie, everyone has an opinion about her so do as you see
>>>> fit. While she may not take advice, the thread can bear other fruits.
>>>> A good recipe may be posted and be of interest to the rest of us, even
>>>> if she chooses to ignore.
>>>>
>>>> The same people do reply to her, me included, and the same people
>>>> complain about her, you included.Â* Has it had good results or is it
>>>> time wasted? Best to kill file and ignore if not interested.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's simply not possible for Dave to ignore her, he's proven that over
>>> and over and over, and I imagine it's just about time for him to trot
>>> out the "sisterhood of stupidity" thing, or something really original
>>> like *bovine.* One trick pony, always bitching about something.
>>>
>>> Cheri
>>
>>
>> You've been paying attention I see...
>>
>> ;-)
>
> Agreement humping whilst making sucking sounds.
>
Snark with attendant head in arse sounds.

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 12:58:34 PM UTC-4, Roy wrote:
> On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 8:38:29 AM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 8:15:06 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> > > Julie Bove wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ohhhhhh. Not really a liquor person here. I did have Everclear once. Don't
> > > > care to remember.
> > >
> > > Jet fuel.
> >
> > My husband uses it as a lens cleaner, since it's so pure.
> >
> > I'm not so exacting. I use denatured alcohol to clean the shower doors.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
>
> Denatured alcohol has added ingredients (usually bitter, so I've been told).
> This so that alkies who will drink anything containing alcohol will desist.
> Un-denatured alcohol is cheaper and will clean just as well.
> ====

Hmmm. I might have part of a bottle of vodka in the basement...

Cindy Hamilton

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 12:53:17 PM UTC-4, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
> On 10/27/2017 8:38 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 8:15:06 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> >> Julie Bove wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Ohhhhhh. Not really a liquor person here. I did have Everclear once. Don't
> >>> care to remember.
> >>
> >> Jet fuel.
> >
> > My husband uses it as a lens cleaner, since it's so pure.
> >
> > I'm not so exacting. I use denatured alcohol to clean the shower doors.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
>
> Ever try WD40?
>
> Odd, but it works.

It smells dreadful, though.

I grant you, when my husband spilled wood stain on his jeans, WD40
took it right out. Then all I had to do was get out the WD40.

Cindy Hamilton

On 10/27/2017 1:07 PM, Cheri wrote:
> "dsi1" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 5:17:43 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>> Julie is Julie, everyone has an opinion about her so do as you see fit.
>>> While she may not take advice, the thread can bear other fruits.* A good
>>> recipe may be posted and be of interest to the rest of us, even if she
>>> chooses to ignore.
>>>
>>> The same people do reply to her, me included, and the same people
>>> complain about her, you included.* Has it had good results or is it time
>>> wasted?* Best to kill file and ignore if not interested.
>>
>> The folks here love to diddle around with their kill file. They keep
>> it shiny and bright. The ignore part, however, is quite impossible.
>> That's the breaks.
>
> =====
>
> And some have a need to name those in their killfiles at every
> opportunity, almost as lame as public plonking IMO.
>
> Cheri

It's the virtual equivalent of a child's "time out".

The awful announcement of the punishment is meant to have some sort of
chastising impact, lol.

Yeah well...

On 27 Oct 2017 17:09:51 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>On 2017-10-27, > wrote:
>
>> True enough, notbob did not say whether he restrained himself for
>> 20mins
>
>I tried that. Still had sand-sized grains of unmelted Minute
>Tapioca.
>
>I think the reason why my 'tapioca flour' did not work is cuz I did
>not let the fruit defrost, first. 8|
>
>nb

Very likely - certainly wouldn't help with the other for 20 minutes
either.

On 10/27/2017 1:15 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 12:53:17 PM UTC-4, Casa de los peregrinos wrote:
>> On 10/27/2017 8:38 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 8:15:06 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ohhhhhh. Not really a liquor person here. I did have Everclear once. Don't
>>>>> care to remember.
>>>>
>>>> Jet fuel.
>>>
>>> My husband uses it as a lens cleaner, since it's so pure.
>>>
>>> I'm not so exacting. I use denatured alcohol to clean the shower doors.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>>
>> Ever try WD40?
>>
>> Odd, but it works.
>
> It smells dreadful, though.

Indeed it does!

> I grant you, when my husband spilled wood stain on his jeans, WD40
> took it right out. Then all I had to do was get out the WD40.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

Lol.

For a fish oil derivative it's rather useful on so many fronts.

https://wd40.com/uses-tips

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 09:34:39 -0700, "Cheri" >
wrote:

>"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>news
>> On 10/27/2017 9:42 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> On 2017-10-26 11:22 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:05:24 -0400, Dave Smith
>>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It beats me why anyone would bother to offer any suggestions to her.
>>>>> They would just give her the opportunity to post about why she can't do
>>>>> those things. We have all been there and done that. Yet, people here
>>>>> still seem to get sucked into responding and getting shot down.
>>>>
>>>> Are you aware that you've been on repeat for a couple of years?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I am on repeat??? I have been exposed to her antics for years. People
>>> keep replying to her as if she is normal and get sucked into offering the
>>> advice she seeks, and then hearing about why that won't work for her. I
>>> am not the only one on repeat.
>>
>> Julie is Julie, everyone has an opinion about her so do as you see fit.
>> While she may not take advice, the thread can bear other fruits. A good
>> recipe may be posted and be of interest to the rest of us, even if she
>> chooses to ignore.
>>
>> The same people do reply to her, me included, and the same people complain
>> about her, you included. Has it had good results or is it time wasted?
>> Best to kill file and ignore if not interested.
>
>
>It's simply not possible for Dave to ignore her, he's proven that over and
>over and over, and I imagine it's just about time for him to trot out the
>"sisterhood of stupidity" thing, or something really original like *bovine.*
>One trick pony, always bitching about something.
>
>Cheri

I just don't read her posts - once when someone posted to what she had
been saying about Canadian healthcare, it was absolutely false but she
was sure she knew better because she had a friend in NB, I did respond
in no uncertain terms because she was totally inaccurate and I really
doubted she had the info from a native NBer, could just possibly have
been an USian living in NB.

I really don't know why anyone reads her posts far less responds to
them.