I've got a recipe that I want to try that calls for 230 grams of
"liquid" sourdough starter. The recipe also has 225 grams bread
flour. How would you interpret 'liquid'. Is there a specific formula
for that? No instructions for building the starter.
Thanks
Janet US

On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 09:45:58 -0700, U.S. Janet B. >
wrote:

>
>I've got a recipe that I want to try that calls for 230 grams of
>"liquid" sourdough starter. The recipe also has 225 grams bread
>flour. How would you interpret 'liquid'. Is there a specific formula
>for that? No instructions for building the starter.

As you know, that's just starter with a high percentage of water.

On 2017-11-08 11:38 AM, Bruce wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 09:45:58 -0700, U.S. Janet B. >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I've got a recipe that I want to try that calls for 230 grams of
>> "liquid" sourdough starter. The recipe also has 225 grams bread
>> flour. How would you interpret 'liquid'. Is there a specific formula
>> for that? No instructions for building the starter.
>


Hi Janet
For some reason your original post doesn't show, even after I repaired
the rfc folder several times.

IME, liquid sourdough starter is usually the 100% hydration variety
preferred by most N.American SD enthusiasts.

I prefer the French type that I keep at ~65%. There's just a different
yeast:bacterial balance that makes the loaf less sour.
HTH
Graham

On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 11:52:47 -0700, graham > wrote:

>On 2017-11-08 11:38 AM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 09:45:58 -0700, U.S. Janet B. >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I've got a recipe that I want to try that calls for 230 grams of
>>> "liquid" sourdough starter. The recipe also has 225 grams bread
>>> flour. How would you interpret 'liquid'. Is there a specific formula
>>> for that? No instructions for building the starter.
>>
>
>
>Hi Janet
>For some reason your original post doesn't show, even after I repaired
>the rfc folder several times.
>
>IME, liquid sourdough starter is usually the 100% hydration variety
>preferred by most N.American SD enthusiasts.
>
>I prefer the French type that I keep at ~65%. There's just a different
>yeast:bacterial balance that makes the loaf less sour.
>HTH
>Graham

O.k., thanks.
Janet US

On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 11:52:47 -0700, graham > wrote:

>On 2017-11-08 11:38 AM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 09:45:58 -0700, U.S. Janet B. >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I've got a recipe that I want to try that calls for 230 grams of
>>> "liquid" sourdough starter. The recipe also has 225 grams bread
>>> flour. How would you interpret 'liquid'. Is there a specific formula
>>> for that? No instructions for building the starter.
>>
>
>
>Hi Janet
>For some reason your original post doesn't show, even after I repaired
>the rfc folder several times.
>
>IME, liquid sourdough starter is usually the 100% hydration variety
>preferred by most N.American SD enthusiasts.
>
>I prefer the French type that I keep at ~65%. There's just a different
>yeast:bacterial balance that makes the loaf less sour.
>HTH
>Graham

I keep my fridge starters (do NOT ask me how many I have going at any
one time) at about a drop biscuit dough texture - quite tacky, almost
gooey, but with a tad of stiffness.

You know how I never measure....

But I vary the starters for use depending on what sort of breads I
plan. I always refresh keeping a recipe in mind, then am liable to age
a pre-ferment for 2-3 days before the final dough. Although I am
likely to change the hydrations somewhat, the flour types I am using
in preferment influence what I do, too, not just my final dough goals.

This weekend it's fresh yeast breads - I was given a 1 lb block of
yeast today.

On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 16:16:16 -0500, Boron >
wrote:

>On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 11:52:47 -0700, graham > wrote:
>
>>On 2017-11-08 11:38 AM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 09:45:58 -0700, U.S. Janet B. >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've got a recipe that I want to try that calls for 230 grams of
>>>> "liquid" sourdough starter. The recipe also has 225 grams bread
>>>> flour. How would you interpret 'liquid'. Is there a specific formula
>>>> for that? No instructions for building the starter.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Hi Janet
>>For some reason your original post doesn't show, even after I repaired
>>the rfc folder several times.
>>
>>IME, liquid sourdough starter is usually the 100% hydration variety
>>preferred by most N.American SD enthusiasts.
>>
>>I prefer the French type that I keep at ~65%. There's just a different
>>yeast:bacterial balance that makes the loaf less sour.
>>HTH
>>Graham
>
>I keep my fridge starters (do NOT ask me how many I have going at any
>one time) at about a drop biscuit dough texture - quite tacky, almost
>gooey, but with a tad of stiffness.
>
>You know how I never measure....
>
>But I vary the starters for use depending on what sort of breads I
>plan. I always refresh keeping a recipe in mind, then am liable to age
>a pre-ferment for 2-3 days before the final dough. Although I am
>likely to change the hydrations somewhat, the flour types I am using
>in preferment influence what I do, too, not just my final dough goals.
>
>This weekend it's fresh yeast breads - I was given a 1 lb block of
>yeast today.

I know you have a fridge full of little bubbling jars ;-)
I was concerned about this recipe because it looks as though a lot
of the liquid is contained in the starter. But as I read the
directions it is apparent that the person who developed the recipe was
greatly influenced by the original NY Times bread so that makes it
easier. I now have a general idea of what I am shooting for. If I
keep records I will be able to correct the next time.The bread is
Chocolate Cherry Sourdough. I have been assigned bread/rolls for T day
dinner at someone's house. I don't believe that I have ever eaten a
dinner roll. What is the purpose of a bread at a T day dinner? We
aren't farm hands anymore. I am disgruntled at this assignment so I
decided to make something unexpected. Gotta practice first.
I vaguely recall seeing little foil squares of fresh yeast when I
first started making bread and haven't seen any since. I would love
to play and experiment because I bet the taste is different. You are
lucky with your connections. What bread do you have in mind for the
fresh yeast or are you just going to wing it?
Janet US

On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 21:44:07 -0700, U.S. Janet B. >
wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 16:16:16 -0500, Boron >
>wrote:

>>
>>I keep my fridge starters (do NOT ask me how many I have going at any
>>one time) at about a drop biscuit dough texture - quite tacky, almost
>>gooey, but with a tad of stiffness.
>>
>>You know how I never measure....
>>
>>But I vary the starters for use depending on what sort of breads I
>>plan. I always refresh keeping a recipe in mind, then am liable to age
>>a pre-ferment for 2-3 days before the final dough. Although I am
>>likely to change the hydrations somewhat, the flour types I am using
>>in preferment influence what I do, too, not just my final dough goals.
>>
>>This weekend it's fresh yeast breads - I was given a 1 lb block of
>>yeast today.
>
>I know you have a fridge full of little bubbling jars ;-)
> I was concerned about this recipe because it looks as though a lot
>of the liquid is contained in the starter. But as I read the
>directions it is apparent that the person who developed the recipe was
>greatly influenced by the original NY Times bread so that makes it
>easier. I now have a general idea of what I am shooting for. If I
>keep records I will be able to correct the next time.The bread is
>Chocolate Cherry Sourdough. I have been assigned bread/rolls for T day
>dinner at someone's house. I don't believe that I have ever eaten a
>dinner roll. What is the purpose of a bread at a T day dinner? We
>aren't farm hands anymore. I am disgruntled at this assignment so I
>decided to make something unexpected. Gotta practice first.
>I vaguely recall seeing little foil squares of fresh yeast when I
>first started making bread and haven't seen any since. I would love
>to play and experiment because I bet the taste is different. You are
>lucky with your connections. What bread do you have in mind for the
>fresh yeast or are you just going to wing it?
>Janet US


You've seen the NYT link with the page? If you have any paywall
problem, I'll send you the recipe directly.

https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/...ourdough-bread

My husband's company does construction work at a baking mix/products
manufacturer. The R&D lab always has fresh yeast. New folks who did
not know TH are in the lab now, and I had not gotten any blocks in
maybe a year, but I have a bit of a rep that was known among them, I
discovered and yesterday the yeast showed up, along with a nice
scraper, too.

I liike fresh yeast for brioche, croissants, heavily enriched doughs,
though I am content to use SD or even dry for them, if necessary. And
believe me, it is great in any bread. I use it for pre-ferments, too.
This just provides a nice bit of oomph, though I cannot say it affects
taste, other that it affects rise and maybe texture because I use it
somewha differently. It surely affects the fine aroma of the dough,
though.

The trick is not to let it take advantage of the dough...keep any
long, cool rise for flavor development.

It is our first ice cold weekend, with temps due to drop into the
teens Friday night. I still have roses blooming and peppers on the
vine. It had to happen some time.

Depending on how bored I get, 4 loaves of PR's Wild Rice & Onion, and
maybe few Anadama.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/recipes/...eandonionbread

And here is the basic Anadama that I found years ago, though I cannot
be trusted to follow it to the letter.

Anadama Bread recipe
..
1 package active dry yeast
1/4 cup lukewarm water
1/2 cup cornmeal
3/4 cup cold water
1 1/2 cups boiling water or milk
3 tablespoons butter
1/2 cup dark molasses
2 tablespoons salt
3 cups whole wheat flour
3 cups unbleached white flour, unsifted

Dissolve yeast in warm water for 5 minutes.

Meanwhile, put cornmeal into the 3/4 cup cold water and soak. Pour
this mixture into the boiling water and stir over low heat until
mixture comes to a boil again. Remove from heat; add butter, molasses
and salt. Cool to 95 degrees F to 105 degrees F. Be sure it is cooled
at least to body temperature. You can place it in the refrigerator,
stirring occasionally, to speed up the cooling process.

Combine yeast and liquid cornmeal mixture. Put the whole wheat flour
into a large mixing bowl, add liquid all at once, and mix into a
smooth batter for 3 to 5 minutes.

Gradually add white flour and beat and knead until smooth, elastic and
non-sticky. Cover dough and let rest for 2 minutes. Gently knead and
form into a ball.

Place dough in a well-buttered 6-quart bowl and cover with plastic
wrap and a towel. Let rise slowly for 3 hours, or until doubled in
bulk. Punch down, place on a lightly floured surface, cut in half,
cover, and let rest for 1 minute.

Flatten dough into 2 3/4-inch thick rectangles. Fold each in thirds,
turn and flatten again in the opposite direction. Roll into tight
cylinders, pinching seam and ends. Roll back and forth until cylinders
are the length of the bread pans.

Place dough in 2 well-buttered loaf pans, seam down, and cover. Let
rise slowly at 75 degrees F room temperature for 1 1/2 hours or until
dough has filled pans and curves above the edges. Heat oven to 400
degrees F.

Bake for 15 minutes, checking to see that crust isn't browning too
much. If it is, cover with foil. Reduce heat to 350 degrees F and bake
for 45 minutes more. Bread is done when it pulls from the edges of
pans, the crusts are firm, and a finger tapped on the bottom of a pan
makes a hollow thump.

Remove from pans, place on a rack and return to a turned-off oven,
door ajar, for 15 minutes, to set the crust.

On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 06:35:25 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 21:44:07 -0700, U.S. Janet B. >
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 16:16:16 -0500, Boron >
>>wrote:
>
>>>
>>>I keep my fridge starters (do NOT ask me how many I have going at any
>>>one time) at about a drop biscuit dough texture - quite tacky, almost
>>>gooey, but with a tad of stiffness.
>>>
>>>You know how I never measure....
>>>
>>>But I vary the starters for use depending on what sort of breads I
>>>plan. I always refresh keeping a recipe in mind, then am liable to age
>>>a pre-ferment for 2-3 days before the final dough. Although I am
>>>likely to change the hydrations somewhat, the flour types I am using
>>>in preferment influence what I do, too, not just my final dough goals.
>>>
>>>This weekend it's fresh yeast breads - I was given a 1 lb block of
>>>yeast today.
>>
>>I know you have a fridge full of little bubbling jars ;-)
>> I was concerned about this recipe because it looks as though a lot
>>of the liquid is contained in the starter. But as I read the
>>directions it is apparent that the person who developed the recipe was
>>greatly influenced by the original NY Times bread so that makes it
>>easier. I now have a general idea of what I am shooting for. If I
>>keep records I will be able to correct the next time.The bread is
>>Chocolate Cherry Sourdough. I have been assigned bread/rolls for T day
>>dinner at someone's house. I don't believe that I have ever eaten a
>>dinner roll. What is the purpose of a bread at a T day dinner? We
>>aren't farm hands anymore. I am disgruntled at this assignment so I
>>decided to make something unexpected. Gotta practice first.
>>I vaguely recall seeing little foil squares of fresh yeast when I
>>first started making bread and haven't seen any since. I would love
>>to play and experiment because I bet the taste is different. You are
>>lucky with your connections. What bread do you have in mind for the
>>fresh yeast or are you just going to wing it?
>>Janet US
>
>
>You've seen the NYT link with the page? If you have any paywall
>problem, I'll send you the recipe directly.
>
>https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/...ourdough-bread
>
>My husband's company does construction work at a baking mix/products
>manufacturer. The R&D lab always has fresh yeast. New folks who did
>not know TH are in the lab now, and I had not gotten any blocks in
>maybe a year, but I have a bit of a rep that was known among them, I
>discovered and yesterday the yeast showed up, along with a nice
>scraper, too.
>
>I liike fresh yeast for brioche, croissants, heavily enriched doughs,
>though I am content to use SD or even dry for them, if necessary. And
>believe me, it is great in any bread. I use it for pre-ferments, too.
>This just provides a nice bit of oomph, though I cannot say it affects
>taste, other that it affects rise and maybe texture because I use it
>somewha differently. It surely affects the fine aroma of the dough,
>though.
>
>The trick is not to let it take advantage of the dough...keep any
>long, cool rise for flavor development.
>
>It is our first ice cold weekend, with temps due to drop into the
>teens Friday night. I still have roses blooming and peppers on the
>vine. It had to happen some time.
>
>Depending on how bored I get, 4 loaves of PR's Wild Rice & Onion, and
>maybe few Anadama.
>
>http://www.thefreshloaf.com/recipes/...eandonionbread
>
>And here is the basic Anadama that I found years ago, though I cannot
>be trusted to follow it to the letter.
>
>Anadama Bread recipe
>.
>1 package active dry yeast
>1/4 cup lukewarm water
>1/2 cup cornmeal
>3/4 cup cold water
>1 1/2 cups boiling water or milk
>3 tablespoons butter
>1/2 cup dark molasses
>2 tablespoons salt
>3 cups whole wheat flour
>3 cups unbleached white flour, unsifted
>
>Dissolve yeast in warm water for 5 minutes.
>
>Meanwhile, put cornmeal into the 3/4 cup cold water and soak. Pour
>this mixture into the boiling water and stir over low heat until
>mixture comes to a boil again. Remove from heat; add butter, molasses
>and salt. Cool to 95 degrees F to 105 degrees F. Be sure it is cooled
>at least to body temperature. You can place it in the refrigerator,
>stirring occasionally, to speed up the cooling process.
>
>Combine yeast and liquid cornmeal mixture. Put the whole wheat flour
>into a large mixing bowl, add liquid all at once, and mix into a
>smooth batter for 3 to 5 minutes.
>
>Gradually add white flour and beat and knead until smooth, elastic and
>non-sticky. Cover dough and let rest for 2 minutes. Gently knead and
>form into a ball.
>
>Place dough in a well-buttered 6-quart bowl and cover with plastic
>wrap and a towel. Let rise slowly for 3 hours, or until doubled in
>bulk. Punch down, place on a lightly floured surface, cut in half,
>cover, and let rest for 1 minute.
>
>Flatten dough into 2 3/4-inch thick rectangles. Fold each in thirds,
>turn and flatten again in the opposite direction. Roll into tight
>cylinders, pinching seam and ends. Roll back and forth until cylinders
>are the length of the bread pans.
>
>Place dough in 2 well-buttered loaf pans, seam down, and cover. Let
>rise slowly at 75 degrees F room temperature for 1 1/2 hours or until
>dough has filled pans and curves above the edges. Heat oven to 400
>degrees F.
>
>Bake for 15 minutes, checking to see that crust isn't browning too
>much. If it is, cover with foil. Reduce heat to 350 degrees F and bake
>for 45 minutes more. Bread is done when it pulls from the edges of
>pans, the crusts are firm, and a finger tapped on the bottom of a pan
>makes a hollow thump.
>
>Remove from pans, place on a rack and return to a turned-off oven,
>door ajar, for 15 minutes, to set the crust.
>

that first paragraph in the Wild Rice and Onion under Do Ahead is
something that I have done for years and years. So many years that I
thought it was my method. Peter must have read one of my posts and
copied it ;-)
Do you use wild rice? Given the texture of wild rice, I would think
substituting for a different grain would make a huge difference.

Thank you, but I have a copy of the Chocolate Cherry Sourdough.
The Anadama looks pretty much like the couple that I have and haven't
made in a long time.
I lost my veggies to cold about a month ago. The herbs are still
going fine. I'm so happy that I took the time to scald, peel and chop
excess tomatoes as they came along. You wouldn't believe the
difference that 'fresh' tomato taste makes in cooking -- and I've got
another 2 dozen 16 ounce packages in the freezer :-)
Have a good holiday
Janet US

On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 10:35:44 -0700, U.S. Janet B. >
wrote:

>On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 06:35:25 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>



>>
>>Depending on how bored I get, 4 loaves of PR's Wild Rice & Onion, and
>>maybe few Anadama.
>>

>
>that first paragraph in the Wild Rice and Onion under Do Ahead is
>something that I have done for years and years. So many years that I
>thought it was my method. Peter must have read one of my posts and
>copied it ;-)

I bet he did!!!


>Do you use wild rice? Given the texture of wild rice, I would think
>substituting for a different grain would make a huge difference.

Funny you should mention that - I only have enough to make a 2-loaf
batch (the original recipe) and am going to stop at the store to look
for some, because I figured that regular rice won't cut it for texture
or flavor, BUT, I am betting that steel-cut oats might do it,
especially as I do have some wild rice. Truly, though, I love the
nuttiness that the wild rice contributes. Maybe if I toast the oats?
>
>Thank you, but I have a copy of the Chocolate Cherry Sourdough.

>The Anadama looks pretty much like the couple that I have and haven't
>made in a long time.

Yeah, been ages since I made it, too. I have been sticking to lean
doughs lately, flatbreads/focaccia-type with herbs, quick round
loaves. I just mix a preferment, add to it the next day and on the 3rd
day make a dough. No kneading at all....tuck it in the fridge, and
bake whatever the next day.

I am tempted to see how the Reinhardt and anadama come out with no
real kneading.

>I lost my veggies to cold about a month ago. The herbs are still
>going fine. I'm so happy that I took the time to scald, peel and chop
>excess tomatoes as they came along. You wouldn't believe the
>difference that 'fresh' tomato taste makes in cooking -- and I've got
>another 2 dozen 16 ounce packages in the freezer :-)
>Have a good holiday
>Janet US

I have a freezer full of tomatoes, too, but I froze them whole - adds
a whole 'nother task to using them up.

You have a great holiday, too.

On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 13:00:07 -0500, Boron >
wrote:
snip
>
>>Do you use wild rice? Given the texture of wild rice, I would think
>>substituting for a different grain would make a huge difference.
>
>Funny you should mention that - I only have enough to make a 2-loaf
>batch (the original recipe) and am going to stop at the store to look
>for some, because I figured that regular rice won't cut it for texture
>or flavor, BUT, I am betting that steel-cut oats might do it,
>especially as I do have some wild rice. Truly, though, I love the
>nuttiness that the wild rice contributes. Maybe if I toast the oats?
>>
I bet toasting the oats would make a big difference. Go for it!
Janet US