On 2018-07-09 6:29 PM, wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 09:48:19 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>
> I grew up with paper straws and wooden ice cream spoons, never saw
> plastic til the 6o's. I never saw plastic ball point pens until the
> late 50s


Ball point pens were slow off the start and were very expensive in the
1950s. When I was in elementary school we had to learn to write with
stick pens. Once we demonstrated mastery of that we could use fountain
pens, and we used them right through high school. By the time I got to
university Bic pens were cheap.

On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 22:49:29 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2018-07-09 6:29 PM, wrote:
>> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 09:48:19 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>>
>> I grew up with paper straws and wooden ice cream spoons, never saw
>> plastic til the 6o's. I never saw plastic ball point pens until the
>> late 50s
>
>Ball point pens were slow off the start and were very expensive in the
>1950s. When I was in elementary school we had to learn to write with
>stick pens. Once we demonstrated mastery of that we could use fountain
>pens, and we used them right through high school. By the time I got to
>university Bic pens were cheap.

Just the opposite in the US, we learned to write long hand with
fountain pens. When the first ballpoints arrived (Ballerina) they
were much less expensive than fountain pens. The least expensive
fountain pens then cost about $4, Esterbrook. The first ballpoints
cost about 25¢, however they were not yet perfected, they were very
messy as they leaked and their greasy ink took forever to dry.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 16:59:32 -0400, wrote:

>On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 22:49:29 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:
>
>>On 2018-07-09 6:29 PM, wrote:
>>> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 09:48:19 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>>> I grew up with paper straws and wooden ice cream spoons, never saw
>>> plastic til the 6o's. I never saw plastic ball point pens until the
>>> late 50s
>>
>>Ball point pens were slow off the start and were very expensive in the
>>1950s. When I was in elementary school we had to learn to write with
>>stick pens. Once we demonstrated mastery of that we could use fountain
>>pens, and we used them right through high school. By the time I got to
>>university Bic pens were cheap.
>
>Just the opposite in the US, we learned to write long hand with
>fountain pens. When the first ballpoints arrived (Ballerina) they
>were much less expensive than fountain pens. The least expensive
>fountain pens then cost about $4, Esterbrook. The first ballpoints
>cost about 25¢, however they were not yet perfected, they were very
>messy as they leaked and their greasy ink took forever to dry.

I loved having a fountain pen. I had no need for it for school but
kept one anyway. I always filled it with peacock blue ink. I felt so
'smart'
Janet US

On 2018-07-10 4:50 PM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 16:59:32 -0400, wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 22:49:29 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-07-09 6:29 PM, wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 09:48:19 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>>>>
>>>> I grew up with paper straws and wooden ice cream spoons, never saw
>>>> plastic til the 6o's. I never saw plastic ball point pens until the
>>>> late 50s
>>>
>>> Ball point pens were slow off the start and were very expensive in the
>>> 1950s. When I was in elementary school we had to learn to write with
>>> stick pens. Once we demonstrated mastery of that we could use fountain
>>> pens, and we used them right through high school. By the time I got to
>>> university Bic pens were cheap.
>>
>> Just the opposite in the US, we learned to write long hand with
>> fountain pens. When the first ballpoints arrived (Ballerina) they
>> were much less expensive than fountain pens. The least expensive
>> fountain pens then cost about $4, Esterbrook. The first ballpoints
>> cost about 25¢, however they were not yet perfected, they were very
>> messy as they leaked and their greasy ink took forever to dry.
>
> I loved having a fountain pen. I had no need for it for school but
> kept one anyway. I always filled it with peacock blue ink. I felt so
> 'smart'
> Janet US
>
I have the Parker fountain pen my Mother bought for me when I passed the
11+ exam to go to grammar school. I also have a bottle of ink that is
over 50 years old and is still OK.

U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 16:59:32 -0400, wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 22:49:29 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-07-09 6:29 PM, wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 09:48:19 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>>>>
>>>> I grew up with paper straws and wooden ice cream spoons, never saw
>>>> plastic til the 6o's. I never saw plastic ball point pens until the
>>>> late 50s
>>>
>>> Ball point pens were slow off the start and were very expensive in the
>>> 1950s. When I was in elementary school we had to learn to write with
>>> stick pens. Once we demonstrated mastery of that we could use fountain
>>> pens, and we used them right through high school. By the time I got to
>>> university Bic pens were cheap.
>>
>> Just the opposite in the US, we learned to write long hand with
>> fountain pens. When the first ballpoints arrived (Ballerina) they
>> were much less expensive than fountain pens. The least expensive
>> fountain pens then cost about $4, Esterbrook. The first ballpoints
>> cost about 25¢, however they were not yet perfected, they were very
>> messy as they leaked and their greasy ink took forever to dry.
>
> I loved having a fountain pen. I had no need for it for school but
> kept one anyway. I always filled it with peacock blue ink. I felt so
> 'smart'
> Janet US
>

Bet yoose can't guess what popeye filled his with!

On 7/10/2018 4:50 PM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:

> I loved having a fountain pen. I had no need for it for school but
> kept one anyway. I always filled it with peacock blue ink. I felt so
> 'smart'

Still a lot of us, around. Shelly is not the only fountain-pen
aficionado. I'm currently learning copperplate using dip pens.

I'm learning basic calligraphy cuz they stopped teaching kids in CA (my
GD's!) "cursive" which I learned in grade school! Weather, or not, I
can convince my GD's to learn SOME form of cursive remains to be seen. 8|

nb

On 7/10/2018 8:13 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 7/10/2018 4:50 PM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>
>> I loved having a fountain pen.Â* I had no need for it for school but
>> kept one anyway.Â* I always filled it with peacock blue ink.Â* I felt so
>> 'smart'
>
> Still a lot of us, around.Â* Shelly is not the only fountain-pen
> aficionado.Â* I'm currently learning copperplate using dip pens.Â*
>
> I'm learning basic calligraphy cuz they stopped teaching kids in CA (my
> GD's!) "cursive" which I learned in grade school!Â* Weather, or not, I
> can convince my GD's to learn SOME form of cursive remains to be seen.Â* 8|
>
> nb
>
Copperplate? Sounds like you're teaching them to etch in metal with a
hot electric engraving tool.

Seriously, you don't have to learn calligraphy or use a fountain pen
(they are fun, though!) to teach your grandaughters to write in cursive.

Is there a reason given they've stopped teaching cursive? I'm guessing
it has something to do with computers, email and texting and oh, no need
for writing letters in a fancy hand anymore. Sad but true.

I do still send hand written letters or cards occasionally. But they
don't have to be perfect. Because of my mish-mash of schools my
penmanship evolved into a half cursive/half print. I'm not worried
about it being pretty. It's legible.

Jill

"jmcquown" wrote in message ...

On 7/10/2018 8:13 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 7/10/2018 4:50 PM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>
>> I loved having a fountain pen. I had no need for it for school but
>> kept one anyway. I always filled it with peacock blue ink. I felt so
>> 'smart'
>
> Still a lot of us, around. Shelly is not the only fountain-pen
> aficionado. I'm currently learning copperplate using dip pens.
>
> I'm learning basic calligraphy cuz they stopped teaching kids in CA (my
> GD's!) "cursive" which I learned in grade school! Weather, or not, I can
> convince my GD's to learn SOME form of cursive remains to be seen. 8|
>
> nb
>
Copperplate? Sounds like you're teaching them to etch in metal with a
hot electric engraving tool.

Seriously, you don't have to learn calligraphy or use a fountain pen
(they are fun, though!) to teach your grandaughters to write in cursive.

Is there a reason given they've stopped teaching cursive? I'm guessing
it has something to do with computers, email and texting and oh, no need
for writing letters in a fancy hand anymore. Sad but true.

I do still send hand written letters or cards occasionally. But they
don't have to be perfect. Because of my mish-mash of schools my
penmanship evolved into a half cursive/half print. I'm not worried
about it being pretty. It's legible.

Jill

==

My handwriting is rubbish. Like yours half cursive/half print. In junior
school we started off with cursive and half way through changed to italics.

It certainly messed up my writing.

On 7/10/2018 6:54 PM, jmcquown wrote:

> On 7/10/2018 8:13 PM, notbob wrote:

> Copperplate?Â* Sounds like you're teaching them to etch in metal with a
> hot electric engraving tool.

Close, but no cigar!

It's also called "engrosser's script", but yes, it was a "script"
originated as a way to copy copperplate engraving. Eventually,
Copperplate evolved into Spencerian or ornamental writing, which later
evolved into Cursive. You are probably correct in yer speculation that
typewriters and computers killed handwriting.

>Because of my mish-mash of schools my
> penmanship evolved into a half cursive/half print.Â* I'm not worried
> about it being pretty.Â* It's legible.

Yes. I learned cursive in grade school, but later learned to put all my
notes in majuscule (upper-case) print. It's the way engineers typically
communicate. After about 18 mos of printing in minuscules (lower-case,
alarm room logs), my handwriting was jes atrocious. The other reason I
wanted to learn "ornamental copperplate". But, the "flourishes" are
killing me.

nb

On Wednesday, July 11, 2018 at 9:34:24 AM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
>
> Yes. I learned cursive in grade school, but later learned to put all my
> notes in majuscule (upper-case) print. It's the way engineers typically
> communicate. After about 18 mos of printing in minuscules (lower-case,
> alarm room logs), my handwriting was jes atrocious. The other reason I
> wanted to learn "ornamental copperplate". But, the "flourishes" are
> killing me.
>
> nb
>
>
Have you used the Palmer final t yet?

I'm thinking it was the Palmer method of cursive writing that was
taught when I was in school. Every lower case letter starts ON
the line.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 16:50:12 -0600, U.S. Janet B. >
wrote:

>On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 16:59:32 -0400, wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 22:49:29 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2018-07-09 6:29 PM, wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 09:48:19 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>>>>
>>>> I grew up with paper straws and wooden ice cream spoons, never saw
>>>> plastic til the 6o's. I never saw plastic ball point pens until the
>>>> late 50s
>>>
>>>Ball point pens were slow off the start and were very expensive in the
>>>1950s. When I was in elementary school we had to learn to write with
>>>stick pens. Once we demonstrated mastery of that we could use fountain
>>>pens, and we used them right through high school. By the time I got to
>>>university Bic pens were cheap.
>>
>>Just the opposite in the US, we learned to write long hand with
>>fountain pens. When the first ballpoints arrived (Ballerina) they
>>were much less expensive than fountain pens. The least expensive
>>fountain pens then cost about $4, Esterbrook. The first ballpoints
>>cost about 25¢, however they were not yet perfected, they were very
>>messy as they leaked and their greasy ink took forever to dry.
>
>I loved having a fountain pen. I had no need for it for school but
>kept one anyway. I always filled it with peacock blue ink. I felt so
>'smart'
>Janet US

Penmart collects fountain pens, I have hundreds. I like several inks,
I like Mont Blanc emerald green best.
http://www.montblanc.com/en-us/colle...tle-50-ml.html

On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 23:22:17 GMT, "l not -l" > wrote:

>
>On 10-Jul-2018, U.S. Janet B. > wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 16:59:32 -0400, wrote:
>>
>> >On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 22:49:29 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>On 2018-07-09 6:29 PM, wrote:
>> >>> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 09:48:19 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>> >>>
>> >>> I grew up with paper straws and wooden ice cream spoons, never saw
>> >>> plastic til the 6o's. I never saw plastic ball point pens until the
>> >>> late 50s
>> >>
>> >>Ball point pens were slow off the start and were very expensive in the
>> >>1950s. When I was in elementary school we had to learn to write with
>> >>stick pens. Once we demonstrated mastery of that we could use fountain
>> >>pens, and we used them right through high school. By the time I got to
>> >>university Bic pens were cheap.
>> >
>> >Just the opposite in the US, we learned to write long hand with
>> >fountain pens. When the first ballpoints arrived (Ballerina) they
>> >were much less expensive than fountain pens. The least expensive
>> >fountain pens then cost about $4, Esterbrook. The first ballpoints
>> >cost about 25¢, however they were not yet perfected, they were very
>> >messy as they leaked and their greasy ink took forever to dry.
>>
>> I loved having a fountain pen. I had no need for it for school but
>> kept one anyway. I always filled it with peacock blue ink. I felt so
>> 'smart'
>Sheaffer Peacock Blue is my favorite ink;; when Sheaffer moved production to
>Slovenia and changed the formula and well bottle, I bought a lifetime supply
>of the old stock. Peackock, Noodler's Legal Lapis (permanent on paper, good
>for check writing) and Waterman's Florida Blue are the only inks I use; but
>Peacock is my favorite among them.

and my desk drawer has the ink stains to show for it )
Janet US

On 2018-07-10 7:45 PM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 23:22:17 GMT, "l not -l" > wrote:

>>> I loved having a fountain pen. I had no need for it for school but
>>> kept one anyway. I always filled it with peacock blue ink. I felt so
>>> 'smart'
>> Sheaffer Peacock Blue is my favorite ink;; when Sheaffer moved production to
>> Slovenia and changed the formula and well bottle, I bought a lifetime supply
>> of the old stock. Peackock, Noodler's Legal Lapis (permanent on paper, good
>> for check writing) and Waterman's Florida Blue are the only inks I use; but
>> Peacock is my favorite among them.
>
> and my desk drawer has the ink stains to show for it )

I was just thinking about the stereotypical nerd wear of the 40s and
early 70s.... the pocket protector.

On 7/10/2018 7:22 PM, l not -l wrote:

> Sheaffer Peacock Blue is my favorite ink;; when Sheaffer moved production to
> Slovenia and changed the formula and well bottle, I bought a lifetime supply
> of the old stock. Peackock, Noodler's Legal Lapis (permanent on paper, good
> for check writing) and Waterman's Florida Blue are the only inks I use; but
> Peacock is my favorite among them.
>

I like Peacock too. I have little reason to write any more though. I
still write an occasional letter to a friend, but mostly email. I sign
maybe a dozen checks off the printer in a year.

On 7/10/2018 2:59 PM, wrote:

> they were very
> messy as they leaked and their greasy ink took forever to dry.

Sounds like late 60's Bic ballpoints (the cheapo yellow one's)

Sure, they wrote "first time, every time", but they began "clumping" (my
word) or "blobbing" (look it up!), after about a week. Hadda toss 'em,
after they reached that point.

nb

On Tuesday, July 10, 2018 at 4:59:41 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 22:49:29 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
> >On 2018-07-09 6:29 PM, wrote:
> >> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 09:48:19 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> >>
> >> I grew up with paper straws and wooden ice cream spoons, never saw
> >> plastic til the 6o's. I never saw plastic ball point pens until the
> >> late 50s
> >
> >Ball point pens were slow off the start and were very expensive in the
> >1950s. When I was in elementary school we had to learn to write with
> >stick pens. Once we demonstrated mastery of that we could use fountain
> >pens, and we used them right through high school. By the time I got to
> >university Bic pens were cheap.
>
> Just the opposite in the US, we learned to write long hand with
> fountain pens.

Things must have changed in the generation between you and me. I learned
to write cursive with a pencil.

Cindy Hamilton

On Wednesday, July 11, 2018 at 5:37:51 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, July 10, 2018 at 4:59:41 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
> >
> > Just the opposite in the US, we learned to write long hand with
> > fountain pens.
>
> Things must have changed in the generation between you and me. I learned
> to write cursive with a pencil.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
>
Same here. Fountains were not used until junior high and only for book
reports and such.

On 7/11/2018 11:37 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> Things must have changed in the generation between you and me. I learned
> to write cursive with a pencil.
>
As did I.
We started to use dip pens after learning cursive, then we were allowed
to use fountain pens. None of my classes allowed ball-points.

On 2018-07-11 6:41 AM, S Viemeister wrote:
> On 7/11/2018 11:37 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>> Things must have changed in the generation between you and me.Â* I learned
>> to write cursive with a pencil.
>>
> As did I.
> We started to use dip pens after learning cursive, then we were allowed
> to use fountain pens. None of my classes allowed ball-points.
>
Same here. Cursive was initially taught when we used chalk and small
blackboards in my village school.

On Wednesday, July 11, 2018 at 8:41:11 AM UTC-4, S Viemeister wrote:
> On 7/11/2018 11:37 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> > Things must have changed in the generation between you and me. I learned
> > to write cursive with a pencil.
> >
> As did I.
> We started to use dip pens after learning cursive, then we were allowed
> to use fountain pens. None of my classes allowed ball-points.

I'm an infant of 61. It was all ball points for us. As a lefty,
I've never been able to use a fountain pen. Not amenable to being
pushed across the page, and my hand drags through the ink.

Cindy Hamilton

On Wednesday, July 11, 2018 at 8:16:19 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> I'm an infant of 61. It was all ball points for us. As a lefty,
> I've never been able to use a fountain pen. Not amenable to being
> pushed across the page, and my hand drags through the ink.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
>
Lefty as well and using a fountain would really have slowed us down waiting
for ink to dry or continuously blotting.

On 2018-07-11 9:16 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 11, 2018 at 8:41:11 AM UTC-4, S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 7/11/2018 11:37 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>> Things must have changed in the generation between you and me. I learned
>>> to write cursive with a pencil.
>>>
>> As did I.
>> We started to use dip pens after learning cursive, then we were allowed
>> to use fountain pens. None of my classes allowed ball-points.
>
> I'm an infant of 61. It was all ball points for us. As a lefty,
> I've never been able to use a fountain pen. Not amenable to being
> pushed across the page, and my hand drags through the ink.
>

You came along just about the time that ballpoints became cheap and
reliable, and they seemed to have lost interest in penmanship.

On a side note... even though we had a bountiful supply of cheap
ballpoint pens at work, I always used me own pens. I would buy Parker
ball point pens. I found them more comfortable to hold and they could be
used upside down for a few words, which was handy at work. A cartridge
would last me for months, compared to stick pens which usually went
missing withing a couple hours. I just had to remember to take them out
of my pocket when I got home because they did not endure laundry cycles.

Having used my own pens for so many years I developed the habit of
automatically returning pens to my pocket when I was finished writing.
As a result, I have become an inadvertent pen thief. If someone loans me
a pen for something that automatic behaviour leads me to treat it as I
would treat my own pens... into the pocket.

On Wednesday, July 11, 2018 at 10:44:34 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2018-07-11 9:16 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 11, 2018 at 8:41:11 AM UTC-4, S Viemeister wrote:
> >> On 7/11/2018 11:37 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>
> >>> Things must have changed in the generation between you and me. I learned
> >>> to write cursive with a pencil.
> >>>
> >> As did I.
> >> We started to use dip pens after learning cursive, then we were allowed
> >> to use fountain pens. None of my classes allowed ball-points.
> >
> > I'm an infant of 61. It was all ball points for us. As a lefty,
> > I've never been able to use a fountain pen. Not amenable to being
> > pushed across the page, and my hand drags through the ink.
> >
>
> You came along just about the time that ballpoints became cheap and
> reliable, and they seemed to have lost interest in penmanship.

I probably used mostly pencil up until 7th grade, which would have
been in 1969.

> On a side note... even though we had a bountiful supply of cheap
> ballpoint pens at work, I always used me own pens.

I buy my own pens, too. I like a fairly slim ball point pen with a
fine point. Looks like I've settled on Papermate Comfort Mate pens.

I still mainly use pencil, except for signing stuff.

Cindy Hamilton

On 7/11/2018 10:44 AM, Dave Smith wrote:

>
> On a side note... even though we had a bountiful supply of cheap
> ballpoint pens at work, I always used me own pens. I would buy Parker
> ball point pens. I found them more comfortable to hold and they could be
> usedÂ* upside down for a few words, which was handy at work.Â* A cartridge
> would last me for months, compared to stick pens which usually went
> missing withing a couple hours.

I used Parker for years and I also had a pen custom turned that uses
Parker refills but is a little fatter.

I also have a Cross slide open cartridge pen that is short and is in my
pocket all the time. Rare that you will find me with no pen if I have
clothes on.

On 7/11/2018 9:16 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> I'm an infant of 61. It was all ball points for us. As a lefty,
> I've never been able to use a fountain pen. Not amenable to being
> pushed across the page, and my hand drags through the ink.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

As a lefty I hd similar problems, but as an adult I figured it out. My
wife was able to though, she also is a lefty.

The good news though, we make good pitchers and the best machinists and
tool makers.

S Viemeister wrote:
>
> On 7/11/2018 11:37 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> > Things must have changed in the generation between you and me. I learned
> > to write cursive with a pencil.
> >
> As did I.
> We started to use dip pens after learning cursive, then we were allowed
> to use fountain pens. None of my classes allowed ball-points.

gasp! older than old people still hanging on to life here in
RFC.

"Gary" > wrote in message ...

> gasp! older than old people still hanging on to life here in
> RFC.


It's from eating all that great food from the past, tuna casseroles, green
bean casseroles, fish sticks, Jell-O salads, Spam, Potted Meat, boxed pizza
mix, Chef Boyardee, McDonald's and so on. ;-)

Cheri

Cheri wrote:
>
> "Gary" > wrote in message ...
>
> > gasp! older than old people still hanging on to life here in
> > RFC.
>
> It's from eating all that great food from the past, tuna casseroles, green
> bean casseroles, fish sticks, Jell-O salads, Spam, Potted Meat, boxed pizza
> mix, Chef Boyardee, McDonald's and so on. ;-)

heheh...I've been there, done that with all above except for the
green bean casserole. The menu seems to work well enough. I'm
still kicking too. :-D

On 2018-07-11 6:41 AM, S Viemeister wrote:
> On 7/11/2018 11:37 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>> Things must have changed in the generation between you and me.Â* I learned
>> to write cursive with a pencil.
>>
> As did I.
> We started to use dip pens after learning cursive, then we were allowed
> to use fountain pens. None of my classes allowed ball-points.
>
Furthermore, we were taught how to hold a pen or pencil. Some of the
cumbersome ways kids handle them these days is testimony to falling
standards.

On 7/11/2018 11:57 AM, graham wrote:

> Furthermore, we were taught how to hold a pen or pencil. Some of the
> cumbersome ways kids handle them these days is testimony to falling
> standards.

BUT! .....can you touch-type?

nb

On 2018-07-11 2:01 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 7/11/2018 11:57 AM, graham wrote:
>
>> Furthermore, we were taught how to hold a pen or pencil. Some of the
>> cumbersome ways kids handle them these days is testimony to falling
>> standards.
>
> BUT! .....can you touch-type?Â*
>
>

Yes, I can.

On 7/11/2018 6:57 PM, graham wrote:
> On 2018-07-11 6:41 AM, S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 7/11/2018 11:37 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>> Things must have changed in the generation between you and me. I
>>> learned
>>> to write cursive with a pencil.
>>>
>> As did I.
>> We started to use dip pens after learning cursive, then we were
>> allowed to use fountain pens. None of my classes allowed ball-points.
>>
> Furthermore, we were taught how to hold a pen or pencil. Some of the
> cumbersome ways kids handle them these days is testimony to falling
> standards.

Yes. So many younger folk have incredibly ways of gripping their writing
tools.

In article >, says...
>
> On 2018-07-11 6:41 AM, S Viemeister wrote:
> > On 7/11/2018 11:37 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >
> >> Things must have changed in the generation between you and me.* I learned
> >> to write cursive with a pencil.
> >>
> > As did I.
> > We started to use dip pens after learning cursive, then we were allowed
> > to use fountain pens. None of my classes allowed ball-points.
> >
> Furthermore, we were taught how to hold a pen or pencil.

So were we, and there was ONLY ONE right way. Along with correct
physical posture at the desk.

Janet UK

Some of the
> cumbersome ways kids handle them these days is testimony to falling
> standards.

On Thursday, July 12, 2018 at 12:22:31 PM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
> In article >, says...
> >
> > On 2018-07-11 6:41 AM, S Viemeister wrote:
> > > On 7/11/2018 11:37 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > >
> > >> Things must have changed in the generation between you and me.Â* I learned
> > >> to write cursive with a pencil.
> > >>
> > > As did I.
> > > We started to use dip pens after learning cursive, then we were allowed
> > > to use fountain pens. None of my classes allowed ball-points.
> > >
> > Furthermore, we were taught how to hold a pen or pencil.
>
> So were we, and there was ONLY ONE right way. Along with correct
> physical posture at the desk.

I'm extremely grateful that my teachers didn't attempt to make me
right-handed, or mess with my grip.

I got plenty of practice writing lines for talking out of turn.

Cindy Hamilton

On 2018-07-11 6:37 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 10, 2018 at 4:59:41 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
>> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 22:49:29 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-07-09 6:29 PM, wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 09:48:19 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>>>>
>>>> I grew up with paper straws and wooden ice cream spoons, never saw
>>>> plastic til the 6o's. I never saw plastic ball point pens until the
>>>> late 50s
>>>
>>> Ball point pens were slow off the start and were very expensive in the
>>> 1950s. When I was in elementary school we had to learn to write with
>>> stick pens. Once we demonstrated mastery of that we could use fountain
>>> pens, and we used them right through high school. By the time I got to
>>> university Bic pens were cheap.
>>
>> Just the opposite in the US, we learned to write long hand with
>> fountain pens.
>
> Things must have changed in the generation between you and me. I learned
> to write cursive with a pencil.


I was referring only to the use of pens and I think I may have used the
wrong term, calling them stick pens when they are actually dip pens.
IIRC we learned to write with pencils first and then progressed to pens.
We had to learn to write with a dip pen first. That meant having to
dip the tip into an ink pot every few words and to blot it dry so the
ink didn't run and smear.

After we learned how to use dip pens we could use fountain pens. They
were typically loaded from the ink pot in the desk. Cartridges soon
became available, and in different colours. Peacock blue was always
popular with students but not with teachers.

On Wednesday, July 11, 2018 at 7:50:54 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> I was referring only to the use of pens and I think I may have used the
> wrong term, calling them stick pens when they are actually dip pens.
> IIRC we learned to write with pencils first and then progressed to pens.
> We had to learn to write with a dip pen first. That meant having to
> dip the tip into an ink pot every few words and to blot it dry so the
> ink didn't run and smear.
>
> After we learned how to use dip pens we could use fountain pens. They
> were typically loaded from the ink pot in the desk. Cartridges soon
> became available, and in different colours. Peacock blue was always
> popular with students but not with teachers.
>
>
To be honest, I don't think they would have allowed open ink pots in
any classroom when I was child, even all the way to senior high school.
Ruined clothes, ink fights, spilled ink on the floor. Nope, definitely
no open ink pots in a classroom.

I've never anyone write with a dipped pen except on TV. It looks messy
as hell and slow and tedious with all the blotting.

On 2018-07-11 9:35 AM, wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 11, 2018 at 7:50:54 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:

>> After we learned how to use dip pens we could use fountain pens. They
>> were typically loaded from the ink pot in the desk. Cartridges soon
>> became available, and in different colours. Peacock blue was always
>> popular with students but not with teachers.
>>
>>
> To be honest, I don't think they would have allowed open ink pots in
> any classroom when I was child, even all the way to senior high school.
> Ruined clothes, ink fights, spilled ink on the floor. Nope, definitely
> no open ink pots in a classroom.

True. Teachers and janitors were probably happy to see them gone. I once
got into trouble for a stupid prank. There was a cute girl seated in
front of me and her pig tails were often resting on my desk. Opportunity
knocks once but temptation leans on the door bell. I dipped the end of
her right pigtail into my ink pot. I don't think she realized that but
she probably sensed that something was a miss and jerked her head
forward, ripping her pig tail from my 10 year old fingers and onto her
immaculately clean white blouse.


> I've never anyone write with a dipped pen except on TV. It looks messy
> as hell and slow and tedious with all the blotting.

True. It was slow, but it was also an art form.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> I once
> got into trouble for a stupid prank. There was a cute girl seated in
> front of me and her pig tails were often resting on my desk. Opportunity
> knocks once but temptation leans on the door bell. I dipped the end of
> her right pigtail into my ink pot. I don't think she realized that but
> she probably sensed that something was a miss and jerked her head
> forward, ripping her pig tail from my 10 year old fingers and onto her
> immaculately clean white blouse.

Oh horse crap! Pants on fire, Dave! You never did that, you lying
POS. That old story had been going around forever on movies and
books about the old days. I have read so many stories about
"dipping a girl's pigtail in the ink well." Kiss my ass!

You are so busted with this phony story. Try again. Do not pass
Go, do not collect $200.

On 7/11/2018 10:49 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2018-07-11 9:35 AM, wrote:
>>>
>> To be honest, I don't think they would have allowed open ink pots in
>> any classroom when I was child, even all the way to senior high school.
>> Ruined clothes, ink fights, spilled ink on the floor.Â* Nope, definitely
>> no open ink pots in a classroom.
>
> True. Teachers and janitors were probably happy to see them gone. I once
> got into trouble for a stupid prank. There was a cute girl seated in
> front of me and her pig tails were often resting on my desk. Opportunity
> knocks once but temptation leans on the door bell. I dipped the end of
> her right pigtail into my ink pot. I don't think she realized that but
> she probably sensed that something was a miss and jerked her head
> forward, ripping her pig tail from my 10 year old fingers and onto her
> immaculately clean white blouse.
>
I always thought the dipping of a girl's pigtail in an ink pot was an
urban legend. Kind of like my dad walking uphill to school both ways in
the snow...

Jill

On 7/11/2018 7:35 AM, wrote:

> I've never anyone write with a dipped pen except on TV. It looks messy
> as hell and slow and tedious with all the blotting.

Mostly correct.

Dip pens are all you sed. Messy, slow, and tedious ....but, they also
are very "flexible", allowing fine-line up-strokes and thick-line
down-strokes, a phenomena found in really OLD fountain pens (also, very
pricey! FP's).

Lotta Youtube videos with dip pens. Here's one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib2VURj0ykc

BTW, the dip pen she (Suzanne Cunningham) is using is called an
"oblique" dip pen, as opposed to a "straight" dip pen.

nb