The "Pizza with everything" thread ("RFC: Every topic a rathole!")
got me thinking about crusts. I've decided the pizza I like best[1]
has a blistered crust, i.e. crisp on the bottom, chewy above that,
but with large(ish) air pockets. The Goog is full of "guidance" on
how to get that at home. What's *your* advice?

--
Silvar Beitel

[1] Leaving Chicago deep dish, which I love, out of the discussion.

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 15:03:10 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel
> wrote:

>The "Pizza with everything" thread ("RFC: Every topic a rathole!")
>got me thinking about crusts. I've decided the pizza I like best[1]
>has a blistered crust, i.e. crisp on the bottom, chewy above that,
>but with large(ish) air pockets. The Goog is full of "guidance" on
>how to get that at home. What's *your* advice?

overnight the dough in the fridge will get you blistery crust

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 12:37:03 PM UTC-4, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Wed 24 Oct 2018 09:19:38p, U.S. Janet B. told us...
>
> > On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 15:03:10 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>The "Pizza with everything" thread ("RFC: Every topic a rathole!")
> >>got me thinking about crusts. I've decided the pizza I like
> >>best[1] has a blistered crust, i.e. crisp on the bottom, chewy
> >>above that, but with large(ish) air pockets. The Goog is full of
> >>"guidance" on how to get that at home. What's *your* advice?
> >
> > overnight the dough in the fridge will get you blistery crust
> >
>
> How does that work exactly? I've made a lot of home pizza dough with
> generally very good results, but never blistered. Nor have I thought
> to put it in the refrigerator. Obviously that must make the
> difference, and I will definitely try that, but I'm curious as to
> what makes it work. TIA

I suspect that blistery pizza crust is produced by the same things
that produce bread with an open crumb:

Bread or high gluten flour, good yeast, high hydration, good gluten development (try folding every 30 minutes during bulk fermentation), adequate proofing (but not too much - if you press the bread with a finger or two, it should come back slowly, and not all the way), and hot and hot baking temp.

<http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/11527/secret-open-crumb>

When I make pizza, we split the dough in half and my husband takes
his half and puts it on the pizza stone without toppings for a few
minutes. His get much better bubbles than mine. I suspect that's
the "hot and hot" baking temp.

I do about a 66% hydration for pizza crust and use King Arthur bread
flour. I would experiment with higher hydration, but neither of us
is very good at manipulating soft, wet pizza dough.

Cindy Hamilton

On 2018-10-25 10:52 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 12:37:03 PM UTC-4, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Wed 24 Oct 2018 09:19:38p, U.S. Janet B. told us...
>>
>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 15:03:10 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> The "Pizza with everything" thread ("RFC: Every topic a rathole!")
>>>> got me thinking about crusts. I've decided the pizza I like
>>>> best[1] has a blistered crust, i.e. crisp on the bottom, chewy
>>>> above that, but with large(ish) air pockets. The Goog is full of
>>>> "guidance" on how to get that at home. What's *your* advice?
>>>
>>> overnight the dough in the fridge will get you blistery crust
>>>
>>
>> How does that work exactly? I've made a lot of home pizza dough with
>> generally very good results, but never blistered. Nor have I thought
>> to put it in the refrigerator. Obviously that must make the
>> difference, and I will definitely try that, but I'm curious as to
>> what makes it work. TIA
>
> I suspect that blistery pizza crust is produced by the same things
> that produce bread with an open crumb:
>
> Bread or high gluten flour, good yeast, high hydration, good gluten development (try folding every 30 minutes during bulk fermentation), adequate proofing (but not too much - if you press the bread with a finger or two, it should come back slowly, and not all the way), and hot and hot baking temp.
>
> <http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/11527/secret-open-crumb>
>
> When I make pizza, we split the dough in half and my husband takes
> his half and puts it on the pizza stone without toppings for a few
> minutes. His get much better bubbles than mine. I suspect that's
> the "hot and hot" baking temp.
>
> I do about a 66% hydration for pizza crust and use King Arthur bread
> flour. I would experiment with higher hydration, but neither of us
> is very good at manipulating soft, wet pizza dough.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
My best pizza bases have been made with low gluten, Italian "00" flour.

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 16:37:00 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Wed 24 Oct 2018 09:19:38p, U.S. Janet B. told us...
>
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 15:03:10 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>The "Pizza with everything" thread ("RFC: Every topic a rathole!")
>>>got me thinking about crusts. I've decided the pizza I like
>>>best[1] has a blistered crust, i.e. crisp on the bottom, chewy
>>>above that, but with large(ish) air pockets. The Goog is full of
>>>"guidance" on how to get that at home. What's *your* advice?
>>
>> overnight the dough in the fridge will get you blistery crust
>>
>
>How does that work exactly? I've made a lot of home pizza dough with
>generally very good results, but never blistered. Nor have I thought
>to put it in the refrigerator. Obviously that must make the
>difference, and I will definitely try that, but I'm curious as to
>what makes it work. TIA

I can't explain it chemically to you. I just know that the
incorporation of old dough or retarding the dough (refrigerating the
dough) will make gas bubbles in the body of the dough and crust of
bread. Of course, if when punching down you don't eliminate the
larger bubbles in the dough you can get large bubbles. I'm sure
we've all watched in horror as our bread in the oven developed a large
disfiguring bubble.
Retarding the dough overnight does also increase the flavor. "Long
slow fermentation allows yeasts and bacteria to generate more flavor
compounds " (Harold McGee - "On Food and Cooking")
I just know what happens when I retard dough.
If I am making a soft, rich, sandwich bread I do not retard the dough.
(rich means contains eggs or milk or fats-butter)
Straight dough is generally accepted as a good application for
retarding. Straight dough is flour, water, yeast and salt.
Hope something I said made sense and I wasn't overly wordy.
Janet US

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 12:52:37 PM UTC-4, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> I suspect that blistery pizza crust is produced by the same things
> that produce bread with an open crumb:
>
> Bread or high gluten flour, good yeast, high hydration, good gluten development (try folding every 30 minutes during bulk fermentation), adequate proofing (but not too much - if you press the bread with a finger or two, it should come back slowly, and not all the way), and hot and hot baking temp..
>
> <http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/11527/secret-open-crumb>
>
> When I make pizza, we split the dough in half and my husband takes
> his half and puts it on the pizza stone without toppings for a few
> minutes. His get much better bubbles than mine. I suspect that's
> the "hot and hot" baking temp.
>
> I do about a 66% hydration for pizza crust and use King Arthur bread
> flour. I would experiment with higher hydration, but neither of us
> is very good at manipulating soft, wet pizza dough.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

I suspect you are right. The comments in that thread were interesting,
too. I will have to experiment (which, given the rate at which I make
bread and the dimensions of the art, will probably take the rest of
my life. :-) )

--
Silvar Beitel

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 2:48:17 PM UTC-4, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 16:37:00 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
> >On Wed 24 Oct 2018 09:19:38p, U.S. Janet B. told us...
> >
> >> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 15:03:10 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>The "Pizza with everything" thread ("RFC: Every topic a rathole!")
> >>>got me thinking about crusts. I've decided the pizza I like
> >>>best[1] has a blistered crust, i.e. crisp on the bottom, chewy
> >>>above that, but with large(ish) air pockets. The Goog is full of
> >>>"guidance" on how to get that at home. What's *your* advice?
> >>
> >> overnight the dough in the fridge will get you blistery crust
> >>
> >
> >How does that work exactly? I've made a lot of home pizza dough with
> >generally very good results, but never blistered. Nor have I thought
> >to put it in the refrigerator. Obviously that must make the
> >difference, and I will definitely try that, but I'm curious as to
> >what makes it work. TIA
>
> I can't explain it chemically to you. I just know that the
> incorporation of old dough or retarding the dough (refrigerating the
> dough) will make gas bubbles in the body of the dough and crust of
> bread. Of course, if when punching down you don't eliminate the
> larger bubbles in the dough you can get large bubbles. I'm sure
> we've all watched in horror as our bread in the oven developed a large
> disfiguring bubble.
> Retarding the dough overnight does also increase the flavor. "Long
> slow fermentation allows yeasts and bacteria to generate more flavor
> compounds " (Harold McGee - "On Food and Cooking")
> I just know what happens when I retard dough.
> If I am making a soft, rich, sandwich bread I do not retard the dough.
> (rich means contains eggs or milk or fats-butter)
> Straight dough is generally accepted as a good application for
> retarding. Straight dough is flour, water, yeast and salt.
> Hope something I said made sense and I wasn't overly wordy.
> Janet US

So ...

Is part of the answer that having large bubbles in the dough
(however you get them; refrigerated slow-risen being one way?)
leads to large bubbles in the bread or pizza crust?

--
Silvar Beitel

On 2018-10-25 3:06 PM, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Thu 25 Oct 2018 11:43:22a, graham told us...
>
>> On 2018-10-25 10:52 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 12:37:03 PM UTC-4, Wayne
>>> Boatwright wrote:
>>>> On Wed 24 Oct 2018 09:19:38p, U.S. Janet B. told us...
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 15:03:10 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The "Pizza with everything" thread ("RFC: Every topic a
>>>>>> rathole!") got me thinking about crusts. I've decided the
>>>>>> pizza I like best[1] has a blistered crust, i.e. crisp on the
>>>>>> bottom, chewy above that, but with large(ish) air pockets.
>>>>>> The Goog is full of "guidance" on how to get that at home.
>>>>>> What's *your* advice?
>>>>>
>>>>> overnight the dough in the fridge will get you blistery crust
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How does that work exactly? I've made a lot of home pizza dough
>>>> with generally very good results, but never blistered. Nor have
>>>> I thought to put it in the refrigerator. Obviously that must
>>>> make the difference, and I will definitely try that, but I'm
>>>> curious as to what makes it work. TIA
>>>
>>> I suspect that blistery pizza crust is produced by the same
>>> things that produce bread with an open crumb:
>>>
>>> Bread or high gluten flour, good yeast, high hydration, good
>>> gluten development (try folding every 30 minutes during bulk
>>> fermentation), adequate proofing (but not too much - if you
>>> press the bread with a finger or two, it should come back slowly,
>>> and not all the way), and hot and hot baking temp.
>>>
>>> <http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/11527/secret-open-crumb>
>>>
>>> When I make pizza, we split the dough in half and my husband
>>> takes his half and puts it on the pizza stone without toppings
>>> for a few minutes. His get much better bubbles than mine. I
>>> suspect that's the "hot and hot" baking temp.
>>>
>>> I do about a 66% hydration for pizza crust and use King Arthur
>>> bread flour. I would experiment with higher hydration, but
>>> neither of us is very good at manipulating soft, wet pizza dough.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>> My best pizza bases have been made with low gluten, Italian "00"
>> flour.
>
> I'll have to find a local source for that. I've not seen in my local
> stores, and I'd rather not have to order it. Thanks for the tip.
>
There are several Italian stores in this city and I think one of the
supermarkets stocks it too. Best look in the imported food section of
your SMs.

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 1:48:17 PM UTC-5, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
....
> Retarding the dough overnight does also increase the flavor. "Long
> slow fermentation allows yeasts and bacteria to generate more flavor
> compounds " (Harold McGee - "On Food and Cooking")
> I just know what happens when I retard dough.

Yep, back when I worked in Danny Donuts we used to mix up all or most of our yeast raised dough at the end of the previous day's work! Then scaled into blobs to put two to a baking pan and into the dough fridge! We make up and use fresh yeast raised dough if we had to.


> If I am making a soft, rich, sandwich bread I do not retard the dough.
> (rich means contains eggs or milk or fats-butter)

Yep, when we had to use fresh yeast raised dough the doughnuts were very puffy and browned much better and morer evenly due to more sugars left still in the dough and not yet eaten by the yeast.

> Straight dough is generally accepted as a good application for
> retarding. Straight dough is flour, water, yeast and salt.
> Hope something I said made sense and I wasn't overly wordy.
> Janet US

You mean what's called a basic nonsweetened dough. And UNleavened breads are the most basic doughs. Flour and water, basically.

John Kuthe...

On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 12:03:14 PM UTC-10, Silvar Beitel wrote:
> The "Pizza with everything" thread ("RFC: Every topic a rathole!")
> got me thinking about crusts. I've decided the pizza I like best[1]
> has a blistered crust, i.e. crisp on the bottom, chewy above that,
> but with large(ish) air pockets. The Goog is full of "guidance" on
> how to get that at home. What's *your* advice?
>
> --
> Silvar Beitel
>
> [1] Leaving Chicago deep dish, which I love, out of the discussion.

I like to lay the pizza on a metal sheet on the floor of a hot oven then finish it under the broiler.

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 4:52:18 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 12:03:14 PM UTC-10, Silvar Beitel wrote:
> > The "Pizza with everything" thread ("RFC: Every topic a rathole!")
> > got me thinking about crusts. I've decided the pizza I like best[1]
> > has a blistered crust, i.e. crisp on the bottom, chewy above that,
> > but with large(ish) air pockets. The Goog is full of "guidance" on
> > how to get that at home. What's *your* advice?
> >
> > --
> > Silvar Beitel
> >
> > [1] Leaving Chicago deep dish, which I love, out of the discussion.
>
> I like to lay the pizza on a metal sheet on the floor of a hot oven then finish it under the broiler.

Sounds HOT! And that's GOOD! Just don't put any sugars in the pizza dough!

And for as crispier crust bake directly on a wire grid! Midoven to 2/3 of the way up!

John Kuthe...

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 15:03:10 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel wrote:

> The "Pizza with everything" thread ("RFC: Every topic a rathole!")

A lot of people will go way out their way to invent something to
criticize. I seem to generate the most. And I'm one of the top
relevant on-topic starters here. Hardly anybody will confront me
when I'm being an asshole in some off-topic thread, but start a
non-controversial on-topic thread and here they come.

> got me thinking about crusts. I've decided the pizza I like best[1]
> has a blistered crust, i.e. crisp on the bottom, chewy above that,
> but with large(ish) air pockets. The Goog is full of "guidance" on
> how to get that at home. What's *your* advice?

The [mis]information about pizza doughs and the different flours is
all whacked out. Especially when it comes to pizza flours and gluten
content. The best place for pizza questions is the reddit pizza
group. Lots of professional pizza makers hang out there (NOT Pizza
Hut Managers), but there's also a lot of pictures to weed through.

A very hot oven (hotter than your typical home oven by 200-500F).
Minimal toppings, at least where you want it to blister.
Never roll the dough, but rather spread-stretch the dough (to create
uneven spots)
A very hydrated high gluten dough (at least 65% and using a 00
flour) to generate steam.



I get crispy on the bottom, chewy the rest of way by using a
perforated aluminum pan, but you need high peripheral heat source
for the blistery edges, and a hot stone for blisters anywhere else.

I should also note that I actually cook my pizza and pan for about
90 seconds rotating it on the big gas 24K BTU stovetop burner before
putting it into the oven. That way the aluminum and the dough get a
jump start. Helps crisping but still not hot enough for blisters.


-sw

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 18:52:59 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 15:03:10 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel wrote:
>
>> The "Pizza with everything" thread ("RFC: Every topic a rathole!")
>
>A lot of people will go way out their way to invent something to
>criticize. I seem to generate the most. And I'm one of the top
>relevant on-topic starters here. Hardly anybody will confront me
>when I'm being an asshole in some off-topic thread, but start a
>non-controversial on-topic thread and here they come.

Nobody looks up when you're being an asshole, as that's your default
behaviour. We just have a bit of fun when you post a Kitchen Sink
Pizza.

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 12:43:22 -0600, graham wrote:

> My best pizza bases have been made with low gluten, Italian "00" flour.


This is he biggest issue with the misinformation about pizza
flour/dough that is wrong on several major sites. Caputo's variuos
pizza flours are about 13% protein/gluten. That's on par with many
bread flours. All purpose flour is 8-11%. And cake flour (low
gluten) usually less than 9.

Unless there some sort of protein that doesn't translate into gluten
in Caputo, then it's definitely a high gluten flour. cake flour
would eb all wrong for a proper pizza crust.

-sw

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:42:34 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel wrote:

> I suspect you are right. The comments in that thread were interesting,
> too. I will have to experiment (which, given the rate at which I make
> bread and the dimensions of the art, will probably take the rest of
> my life. :-) )

It's hard to imagine that bread, wine, and cheese were some of the
first Universal Foods discovered/invented. The same 4 (or less)
ingredients make thousands of permutations.

I didn't really find much advantage to 24, 48, and 72 hour dough
ferments. But I made vasty different pizzas for each test (one I
even made my own motzarella and tomato sauce from fresh San
Marzanos.

-sw

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 19:15:20 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 12:43:22 -0600, graham wrote:
>
>> My best pizza bases have been made with low gluten, Italian "00" flour.
>
>
>This is he biggest issue with the misinformation about pizza
>flour/dough that is wrong on several major sites. Caputo's variuos
>pizza flours are about 13% protein/gluten. That's on par with many
>bread flours. All purpose flour is 8-11%. And cake flour (low
>gluten) usually less than 9.
>
>Unless there some sort of protein that doesn't translate into gluten
>in Caputo, then it's definitely a high gluten flour. cake flour
>would eb all wrong for a proper pizza crust.
>
>-sw
>
I've noticed the same percentages you indicate when shopping at Cash
and Carry and looking at their labeled pizza flour. Since the store
carries a huge stack of this flour I assume that local pizza places
are buying it.

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:48:19 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel
> wrote:

>On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 2:48:17 PM UTC-4, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 16:37:00 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed 24 Oct 2018 09:19:38p, U.S. Janet B. told us...
>> >
>> >> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 15:03:10 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>The "Pizza with everything" thread ("RFC: Every topic a rathole!")
>> >>>got me thinking about crusts. I've decided the pizza I like
>> >>>best[1] has a blistered crust, i.e. crisp on the bottom, chewy
>> >>>above that, but with large(ish) air pockets. The Goog is full of
>> >>>"guidance" on how to get that at home. What's *your* advice?
>> >>
>> >> overnight the dough in the fridge will get you blistery crust
>> >>
>> >
>> >How does that work exactly? I've made a lot of home pizza dough with
>> >generally very good results, but never blistered. Nor have I thought
>> >to put it in the refrigerator. Obviously that must make the
>> >difference, and I will definitely try that, but I'm curious as to
>> >what makes it work. TIA
>>
>> I can't explain it chemically to you. I just know that the
>> incorporation of old dough or retarding the dough (refrigerating the
>> dough) will make gas bubbles in the body of the dough and crust of
>> bread. Of course, if when punching down you don't eliminate the
>> larger bubbles in the dough you can get large bubbles. I'm sure
>> we've all watched in horror as our bread in the oven developed a large
>> disfiguring bubble.
>> Retarding the dough overnight does also increase the flavor. "Long
>> slow fermentation allows yeasts and bacteria to generate more flavor
>> compounds " (Harold McGee - "On Food and Cooking")
>> I just know what happens when I retard dough.
>> If I am making a soft, rich, sandwich bread I do not retard the dough.
>> (rich means contains eggs or milk or fats-butter)
>> Straight dough is generally accepted as a good application for
>> retarding. Straight dough is flour, water, yeast and salt.
>> Hope something I said made sense and I wasn't overly wordy.
>> Janet US
>
>So ...
>
>Is part of the answer that having large bubbles in the dough
>(however you get them; refrigerated slow-risen being one way?)
>leads to large bubbles in the bread or pizza crust?

yes but you have the responsibility of not destroying them when
making bread. Handling gently is important although you must still be
able to create a tight skin over the ball of dough (when proofing for
bread loaves). You can't have large blisters if you use a rolling pin
and flatten the dough ball. You must have air pockets.

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 20:59:52 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Thu 25 Oct 2018 11:48:08a, U.S. Janet B. told us...
>
>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 16:37:00 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed 24 Oct 2018 09:19:38p, U.S. Janet B. told us...
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 15:03:10 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The "Pizza with everything" thread ("RFC: Every topic a
>>>>>rathole!") got me thinking about crusts. I've decided the pizza
>>>>>I like best[1] has a blistered crust, i.e. crisp on the bottom,
>>>>>chewy above that, but with large(ish) air pockets. The Goog is
>>>>>full of "guidance" on how to get that at home. What's *your*
>>>>>advice?
>>>>
>>>> overnight the dough in the fridge will get you blistery crust
>>>>
>>>
>>>How does that work exactly? I've made a lot of home pizza dough
>>>with generally very good results, but never blistered. Nor have I
>>>thought to put it in the refrigerator. Obviously that must make
>>>the difference, and I will definitely try that, but I'm curious as
>>>to what makes it work. TIA
>>
>> I can't explain it chemically to you. I just know that the
>> incorporation of old dough or retarding the dough (refrigerating
>> the dough) will make gas bubbles in the body of the dough and
>> crust of bread. Of course, if when punching down you don't
>> eliminate the larger bubbles in the dough you can get large
>> bubbles. I'm sure we've all watched in horror as our bread in the
>> oven developed a large disfiguring bubble.
>> Retarding the dough overnight does also increase the flavor. "Long
>> slow fermentation allows yeasts and bacteria to generate more
>> flavor compounds " (Harold McGee - "On Food and Cooking")
>> I just know what happens when I retard dough.
>> If I am making a soft, rich, sandwich bread I do not retard the
>> dough. (rich means contains eggs or milk or fats-butter)
>> Straight dough is generally accepted as a good application for
>> retarding. Straight dough is flour, water, yeast and salt.
>> Hope something I said made sense and I wasn't overly wordy.
>> Janet US
>>
>
>Absolutely, and I appreciate it. I always refrigerate my dough for
>French bread and various other breads. It just never occurred to me
>to do that with pizza dough, I suppose because I usually of pizza as
>something fast and I don't plan ahead. I will now. Thanks, Janet.

Many posters here not only make up the dough in advance, keep it in
greased zip bags in the fridge, but also freeze portions.
Janet US

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 10:16:31 PM UTC-4, U.S. Janet B. wrote:

> Many posters here not only make up the dough in advance, keep it in
> greased zip bags in the fridge, but also freeze portions.
> Janet US

I definitely freeze portions. Once I've gone to the effort of getting
everything out, measured, mixed, kneaded, etc., I'm happy to freeze
half so that it's quicker for the next round.

Works out nicely that my standard recipe makes about twice as much as
we need for a meal.

Cindy Hamilton

In article >, lid
says...
>
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:42:34 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel wrote:
>
> > I suspect you are right. The comments in that thread were interesting,
> > too. I will have to experiment (which, given the rate at which I make
> > bread and the dimensions of the art, will probably take the rest of
> > my life. :-) )
>
> It's hard to imagine that bread, wine, and cheese were some of the
> first Universal Foods discovered/invented.

The first universal foods were leaves, fruit and berries, nuts, meat,
fish and milk.

Bread, wine and cheese came much later, after nomadic hunter-gatherers
got into the residential property market and turned into herdsmen,
seed-sowers and farmers.

Janet UK

On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 7:39:40 AM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
....
>
> The first universal foods were leaves, fruit and berries, nuts, meat,
> fish and milk.

Fouind in their native form when humans were in their Hunter/Gatherer stage.


> Bread, wine and cheese came much later, after nomadic hunter-gatherers
> got into the residential property market and turned into herdsmen,
> seed-sowers and farmers.
>
> Janet UK

Yep, probably progenated by the females of the tribes while the men were out hunting! "Look honey! While you were out slaying beasts I planted a garden!"

And humankind went all to SHIT!! ;-)

John Kuthe...

On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 8:39:40 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
> In article >, lid
> says...
> >
> > On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:42:34 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel wrote:
> >
> > > I suspect you are right. The comments in that thread were interesting,
> > > too. I will have to experiment (which, given the rate at which I make
> > > bread and the dimensions of the art, will probably take the rest of
> > > my life. :-) )
> >
> > It's hard to imagine that bread, wine, and cheese were some of the
> > first Universal Foods discovered/invented.
>
> The first universal foods were leaves, fruit and berries, nuts, meat,
> fish and milk.
>
> Bread, wine and cheese came much later, after nomadic hunter-gatherers
> got into the residential property market and turned into herdsmen,
> seed-sowers and farmers.
>
> Janet UK

Perhaps cheese was discovered by the hunter-gatherers. Isn't the myth
that one of them put surplus milk in a bag made from an animal's stomach,
and the jiggling as he walked along mixed it with the natural rennet and
turned it into cheese?

Cindy Hamilton

In article >,
says...
>
> On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 8:39:40 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
> > In article >, lid
> > says...
> > >
> > > On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:42:34 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel wrote:
> > >
> > > > I suspect you are right. The comments in that thread were interesting,
> > > > too. I will have to experiment (which, given the rate at which I make
> > > > bread and the dimensions of the art, will probably take the rest of
> > > > my life. :-) )
> > >
> > > It's hard to imagine that bread, wine, and cheese were some of the
> > > first Universal Foods discovered/invented.
> >
> > The first universal foods were leaves, fruit and berries, nuts, meat,
> > fish and milk.
> >
> > Bread, wine and cheese came much later, after nomadic hunter-gatherers
> > got into the residential property market and turned into herdsmen,
> > seed-sowers and farmers.
> >
> > Janet UK
>
> Perhaps cheese was discovered by the hunter-gatherers. Isn't the myth
> that one of them put surplus milk in a bag made from an animal's stomach,
> and the jiggling as he walked along mixed it with the natural rennet and
> turned it into cheese?

But first he had to capture and tame some mammals so he could collect
their milk.

Janet UK

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 13:39:31 +0100, Janet wrote:

> In article >, lid
> says...
>>
>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:42:34 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel wrote:
>>
>>> I suspect you are right. The comments in that thread were interesting,
>>> too. I will have to experiment (which, given the rate at which I make
>>> bread and the dimensions of the art, will probably take the rest of
>>> my life. :-) )
>>
>> It's hard to imagine that bread, wine, and cheese were some of the
>> first Universal Foods discovered/invented.
>
> The first universal foods were leaves, fruit and berries, nuts, meat,
> fish and milk.

But they weren't prepared/invented. They weren't even really
"discovered". The eating those foods were just instinct. And they
were the same things other animals were eating. Only humans make
bread and wine.

-sw

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 07:10:51 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 8:39:40 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
>> In article >, lid
>> says...
>>>
>>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:42:34 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel wrote:
>>>
>>> > I suspect you are right. The comments in that thread were interesting,
>>> > too. I will have to experiment (which, given the rate at which I make
>>> > bread and the dimensions of the art, will probably take the rest of
>>> > my life. :-) )
>>>
>>> It's hard to imagine that bread, wine, and cheese were some of the
>>> first Universal Foods discovered/invented.
>>
>> The first universal foods were leaves, fruit and berries, nuts, meat,
>> fish and milk.
>>
>> Bread, wine and cheese came much later, after nomadic hunter-gatherers
>> got into the residential property market and turned into herdsmen,
>> seed-sowers and farmers.
>>
>> Janet UK
>
> Perhaps cheese was discovered by the hunter-gatherers. Isn't the myth
> that one of them put surplus milk in a bag made from an animal's stomach,
> and the jiggling as he walked along mixed it with the natural rennet and
> turned it into cheese?

That's one of the legends. But cheese, wine (or other alcohol), and
bread were developed independently on different continents without
the knowledge of other continents. But not all continents had all
3, such as native North Americans not having cheese, that I know of.

-sw

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 00:59:54 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 07:10:51 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>> On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 8:39:40 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
>>> In article >, lid
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:42:34 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I suspect you are right. The comments in that thread were interesting,
>>>> > too. I will have to experiment (which, given the rate at which I make
>>>> > bread and the dimensions of the art, will probably take the rest of
>>>> > my life. :-) )
>>>>
>>>> It's hard to imagine that bread, wine, and cheese were some of the
>>>> first Universal Foods discovered/invented.
>>>
>>> The first universal foods were leaves, fruit and berries, nuts, meat,
>>> fish and milk.
>>>
>>> Bread, wine and cheese came much later, after nomadic hunter-gatherers
>>> got into the residential property market and turned into herdsmen,
>>> seed-sowers and farmers.
>>>
>>> Janet UK
>>
>> Perhaps cheese was discovered by the hunter-gatherers. Isn't the myth
>> that one of them put surplus milk in a bag made from an animal's stomach,
>> and the jiggling as he walked along mixed it with the natural rennet and
>> turned it into cheese?
>
>That's one of the legends. But cheese, wine (or other alcohol), and
>bread were developed independently on different continents without
>the knowledge of other continents. But not all continents had all
>3, such as native North Americans not having cheese, that I know of.
>
>-sw

I thought that was the story for yogurt

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 2:04:45 AM UTC-4, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 00:59:54 -0500, Sqwertz >
> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 07:10:51 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >
> >> On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 8:39:40 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
> >>> In article >, lid
> >>> says...
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:42:34 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > I suspect you are right. The comments in that thread were interesting,
> >>>> > too. I will have to experiment (which, given the rate at which I make
> >>>> > bread and the dimensions of the art, will probably take the rest of
> >>>> > my life. :-) )
> >>>>
> >>>> It's hard to imagine that bread, wine, and cheese were some of the
> >>>> first Universal Foods discovered/invented.
> >>>
> >>> The first universal foods were leaves, fruit and berries, nuts, meat,
> >>> fish and milk.
> >>>
> >>> Bread, wine and cheese came much later, after nomadic hunter-gatherers
> >>> got into the residential property market and turned into herdsmen,
> >>> seed-sowers and farmers.
> >>>
> >>> Janet UK
> >>
> >> Perhaps cheese was discovered by the hunter-gatherers. Isn't the myth
> >> that one of them put surplus milk in a bag made from an animal's stomach,
> >> and the jiggling as he walked along mixed it with the natural rennet and
> >> turned it into cheese?
> >
> >That's one of the legends. But cheese, wine (or other alcohol), and
> >bread were developed independently on different continents without
> >the knowledge of other continents. But not all continents had all
> >3, such as native North Americans not having cheese, that I know of.
> >
> >-sw
>
> I thought that was the story for yogurt

Yogurt doesn't require rennet. You can put milk in a clay pot and end
up with yogurt (if you're lucky).

Cindy Hamilton

In article >, lid
says...
>
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 13:39:31 +0100, Janet wrote:
>
> > In article >, lid
> > says...
> >>
> >> On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:42:34 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel wrote:
> >>
> >>> I suspect you are right. The comments in that thread were interesting,
> >>> too. I will have to experiment (which, given the rate at which I make
> >>> bread and the dimensions of the art, will probably take the rest of
> >>> my life. :-) )
> >>
> >> It's hard to imagine that bread, wine, and cheese were some of the
> >> first Universal Foods discovered/invented.
> >
> > The first universal foods were leaves, fruit and berries, nuts, meat,
> > fish and milk.
>
> But they weren't prepared/invented. They weren't even really
> "discovered". The eating those foods were just instinct. And they
> were the same things other animals were eating. Only humans make
> bread and wine.

Not very "universal" then ;-)

I imagine wine was discovered accidentally. Probably by wasps or
slugs.

Some human noticed drunk wasps staggering around under a plum tree,
falling over and waving their legs in the air and thought "that looks
like fun".

Janet UK

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> Yogurt doesn't require rennet. You can put milk in a clay pot and end
> up with yogurt (if you're lucky).

I used to make yogurt. Started with a yogurt maker for awhile.
All it did was heat your mix overnight. Then I discovered that my
gas oven with pilot light did just as well overnight.

Anyway, it's just milk and active yogurt (from the store).
I used to make six 8oz containers at a time.
Heat up 48oz whole milk to warm not hot, stir in a few spoonfulls
of yogurt well, then pour into the 6 containers. Put it in at
evening and by morning you have yogurt. Very easy to make. I
should start doing that again.

Janet wrote:
>
> I imagine wine was discovered accidentally. Probably by wasps or
> slugs.
>
> Some human noticed drunk wasps staggering around under a plum tree,
> falling over and waving their legs in the air and thought "that looks
> like fun".

LOL! :-D

Speaking of wasps falling over and waving their legs in the
air...

I was once watching some kid's science show on tv. They said that
bumblebees can be frozen completely then revived later. (This is
how they survive winters) Huh, I thought.

It was summer so I went right outside with a jar and caught a
bumblebee on a clover. I put the jar right into my freezer
overnight.

The next morning, I opened the jar and carefully poured the bee
onto a small plate. It was frozen solid...it made a clinking
sound as it hit the plate landing upside down with frozen legs in
the air.

Put the plate on the coffee table and all of us (me, wife, 2
little girls and cat) sat there watching and waiting. 5-10
minutes later, nothing and I thought I had killed the poor fellow
but we kept watching.

Another few minutes and one leg started wiggling...then more
legs. Eventually the bumblebee flipped over and just stood there
on the plate. This is when we all went outside on the porch and
set the bee plate on the table.

The bee started walking around on the plate, and slowly started
exercising it's wings in slow motion. A few minutes later, it
took off and flew away. Very cool experiment...that science guy
was correct.

In article >, says...
>
> Janet wrote:
> >
> > I imagine wine was discovered accidentally. Probably by wasps or
> > slugs.
> >
> > Some human noticed drunk wasps staggering around under a plum tree,
> > falling over and waving their legs in the air and thought "that looks
> > like fun".
>
> LOL! :-D
>
> Speaking of wasps falling over and waving their legs in the
> air...
>
> I was once watching some kid's science show on tv. They said that
> bumblebees can be frozen completely then revived later. (This is
> how they survive winters) Huh, I thought.
>
> It was summer so I went right outside with a jar and caught a
> bumblebee on a clover. I put the jar right into my freezer
> overnight.
>
> The next morning, I opened the jar and carefully poured the bee
> onto a small plate. It was frozen solid...it made a clinking
> sound as it hit the plate landing upside down with frozen legs in
> the air.
>
> Put the plate on the coffee table and all of us (me, wife, 2
> little girls and cat) sat there watching and waiting. 5-10
> minutes later, nothing and I thought I had killed the poor fellow
> but we kept watching.
>
> Another few minutes and one leg started wiggling...then more
> legs. Eventually the bumblebee flipped over and just stood there
> on the plate. This is when we all went outside on the porch and
> set the bee plate on the table.
>
> The bee started walking around on the plate, and slowly started
> exercising it's wings in slow motion. A few minutes later, it
> took off and flew away. Very cool experiment...that science guy
> was correct.

Now I have to find a bee, again.

Last time I experimented with a bumble bee, was after someone in a
garden newsgroup claimed bumble bees don't sting. He was wrong.

In summer I found a monster insect sitting on a shirt that was
hanging on the washing line. Fearing it was an invasive deadly killer
Asian hornet I caught it in a jamjar, took a photo, put it in the
freezer and contacted the emergency Asian Hornet Watch. Then me and the
dog Bugged Out down to the underground bunker.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/57...arning-DEADLY-
hornets-killed-SIX-France-arrive-UK

Asian Hornet Watch identified it as just a European Hornet so I
released the prisoner from Siberia and defrosted it.

It was still dead.

Janet UK

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 03:38:16 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 2:04:45 AM UTC-4, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 00:59:54 -0500, Sqwertz >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 07:10:51 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 8:39:40 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
>> >>> In article >, lid
>> >>> says...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:42:34 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> > I suspect you are right. The comments in that thread were interesting,
>> >>>> > too. I will have to experiment (which, given the rate at which I make
>> >>>> > bread and the dimensions of the art, will probably take the rest of
>> >>>> > my life. :-) )
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It's hard to imagine that bread, wine, and cheese were some of the
>> >>>> first Universal Foods discovered/invented.
>> >>>
>> >>> The first universal foods were leaves, fruit and berries, nuts, meat,
>> >>> fish and milk.
>> >>>
>> >>> Bread, wine and cheese came much later, after nomadic hunter-gatherers
>> >>> got into the residential property market and turned into herdsmen,
>> >>> seed-sowers and farmers.
>> >>>
>> >>> Janet UK
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps cheese was discovered by the hunter-gatherers. Isn't the myth
>> >> that one of them put surplus milk in a bag made from an animal's stomach,
>> >> and the jiggling as he walked along mixed it with the natural rennet and
>> >> turned it into cheese?
>> >
>> >That's one of the legends. But cheese, wine (or other alcohol), and
>> >bread were developed independently on different continents without
>> >the knowledge of other continents. But not all continents had all
>> >3, such as native North Americans not having cheese, that I know of.
>> >
>> >-sw
>>
>> I thought that was the story for yogurt
>
>Yogurt doesn't require rennet. You can put milk in a clay pot and end
>up with yogurt (if you're lucky).
>
>Cindy Hamilton

Isn't rennet present in stomach lining of animals?

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 12:04:04 PM UTC-4, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 03:38:16 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 2:04:45 AM UTC-4, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> >> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 00:59:54 -0500, Sqwertz >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 07:10:51 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 8:39:40 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
> >> >>> In article >, lid
> >> >>> says...
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:42:34 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> > I suspect you are right. The comments in that thread were interesting,
> >> >>>> > too. I will have to experiment (which, given the rate at which I make
> >> >>>> > bread and the dimensions of the art, will probably take the rest of
> >> >>>> > my life. :-) )
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> It's hard to imagine that bread, wine, and cheese were some of the
> >> >>>> first Universal Foods discovered/invented.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The first universal foods were leaves, fruit and berries, nuts, meat,
> >> >>> fish and milk.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Bread, wine and cheese came much later, after nomadic hunter-gatherers
> >> >>> got into the residential property market and turned into herdsmen,
> >> >>> seed-sowers and farmers.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Janet UK
> >> >>
> >> >> Perhaps cheese was discovered by the hunter-gatherers. Isn't the myth
> >> >> that one of them put surplus milk in a bag made from an animal's stomach,
> >> >> and the jiggling as he walked along mixed it with the natural rennet and
> >> >> turned it into cheese?
> >> >
> >> >That's one of the legends. But cheese, wine (or other alcohol), and
> >> >bread were developed independently on different continents without
> >> >the knowledge of other continents. But not all continents had all
> >> >3, such as native North Americans not having cheese, that I know of.
> >> >
> >> >-sw
> >>
> >> I thought that was the story for yogurt
> >
> >Yogurt doesn't require rennet. You can put milk in a clay pot and end
> >up with yogurt (if you're lucky).
> >
> >Cindy Hamilton
>
> Isn't rennet present in stomach lining of animals?

Yes, that's correct. If you put milk in an animal's stomach you get
cheese, not yogurt. Yogurt is produced by bacterial action. Rennet
is an enzyme that works by purely chemical means.

Of course if you used an actual stomach, you might get both happening
at once.

Cindy Hamilton

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 09:31:57 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 12:04:04 PM UTC-4, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 03:38:16 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 2:04:45 AM UTC-4, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 00:59:54 -0500, Sqwertz >
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 07:10:51 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 8:39:40 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
>> >> >>> In article >, lid
>> >> >>> says...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:42:34 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> > I suspect you are right. The comments in that thread were interesting,
>> >> >>>> > too. I will have to experiment (which, given the rate at which I make
>> >> >>>> > bread and the dimensions of the art, will probably take the rest of
>> >> >>>> > my life. :-) )
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> It's hard to imagine that bread, wine, and cheese were some of the
>> >> >>>> first Universal Foods discovered/invented.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> The first universal foods were leaves, fruit and berries, nuts, meat,
>> >> >>> fish and milk.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Bread, wine and cheese came much later, after nomadic hunter-gatherers
>> >> >>> got into the residential property market and turned into herdsmen,
>> >> >>> seed-sowers and farmers.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Janet UK
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Perhaps cheese was discovered by the hunter-gatherers. Isn't the myth
>> >> >> that one of them put surplus milk in a bag made from an animal's stomach,
>> >> >> and the jiggling as he walked along mixed it with the natural rennet and
>> >> >> turned it into cheese?
>> >> >
>> >> >That's one of the legends. But cheese, wine (or other alcohol), and
>> >> >bread were developed independently on different continents without
>> >> >the knowledge of other continents. But not all continents had all
>> >> >3, such as native North Americans not having cheese, that I know of.
>> >> >
>> >> >-sw
>> >>
>> >> I thought that was the story for yogurt
>> >
>> >Yogurt doesn't require rennet. You can put milk in a clay pot and end
>> >up with yogurt (if you're lucky).
>> >
>> >Cindy Hamilton
>>
>> Isn't rennet present in stomach lining of animals?
>
>Yes, that's correct. If you put milk in an animal's stomach you get
>cheese, not yogurt. Yogurt is produced by bacterial action. Rennet
>is an enzyme that works by purely chemical means.
>
>Of course if you used an actual stomach, you might get both happening
>at once.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

whatever and however, I am glad it happened.
Janet US

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 12:22:59 PM UTC-6, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 09:31:57 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
....
> >Yes, that's correct. If you put milk in an animal's stomach you get
> >cheese, not yogurt. Yogurt is produced by bacterial action. Rennet
> >is an enzyme that works by purely chemical means.

Actually a mix of gross enzymes from "ruminant" mammals!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet


> >Of course if you used an actual stomach, you might get both happening
> >at once.
> >
> >Cindy Hamilton
>
> whatever and however, I am glad it happened.
> Janet US

GROSS!! No WONDER Vegans do not eat cheeses! Milk treated with the stomach enzymes of grazing animals? GROSS!!!

How come cheese TASTES so GOOD?

John Kuthe...

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 8:40:50 AM UTC-10, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 12:22:59 PM UTC-6, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> > On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 09:31:57 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> ...
> > >Yes, that's correct. If you put milk in an animal's stomach you get
> > >cheese, not yogurt. Yogurt is produced by bacterial action. Rennet
> > >is an enzyme that works by purely chemical means.
>
> Actually a mix of gross enzymes from "ruminant" mammals!!!
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet
>
>
> > >Of course if you used an actual stomach, you might get both happening
> > >at once.
> > >
> > >Cindy Hamilton
> >
> > whatever and however, I am glad it happened.
> > Janet US
>
> GROSS!! No WONDER Vegans do not eat cheeses! Milk treated with the stomach enzymes of grazing animals? GROSS!!!
>
> How come cheese TASTES so GOOD?
>
> John Kuthe...

As I recall, rennet is from the stomach lining of calfs. Poor baby cows!

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 09:31:57 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 12:04:04 PM UTC-4, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>
>> Isn't rennet present in stomach lining of animals?
>
> Yes, that's correct. If you put milk in an animal's stomach you get
> cheese, not yogurt. Yogurt is produced by bacterial action. Rennet
> is an enzyme that works by purely chemical means.
>
> Of course if you used an actual stomach, you might get both happening
> at once.

The stomach digests the cheese and leaves you with poo. Which they
then purposely expose to fungus, mold and bacteria and leave it to
rot. And presto! You have a blob of moldy poo which tastes pretty
damned good!

Whcih is why I say it's kinda incredible that this is one of the
first manufactured foods known to mankind.

And then came Smokehouse almonds.... On sale at Walgreens for
$5.99/19.2oz bag. I really need to move this bag away from my
computer...

-sw

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 8:11:31 PM UTC-6, Sqwertz wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 09:31:57 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 12:04:04 PM UTC-4, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> >
> >> Isn't rennet present in stomach lining of animals?
> >
> > Yes, that's correct. If you put milk in an animal's stomach you get
> > cheese, not yogurt. Yogurt is produced by bacterial action. Rennet
> > is an enzyme that works by purely chemical means.
> >
> > Of course if you used an actual stomach, you might get both happening
> > at once.
>
> The stomach digests the cheese and leaves you with poo.
....

Your profound ignorance of basic human metabolic physiology didn't really surprise me, but are you really that uninformed for an adult?

John Kuthe...

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 11:04:50 -0000, Janet wrote:

> In article >, lid
> says...
>>
>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 13:39:31 +0100, Janet wrote:
>>
>>> In article >, lid
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 13:42:34 -0700 (PDT), Silvar Beitel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I suspect you are right. The comments in that thread were interesting,
>>>>> too. I will have to experiment (which, given the rate at which I make
>>>>> bread and the dimensions of the art, will probably take the rest of
>>>>> my life. :-) )
>>>>
>>>> It's hard to imagine that bread, wine, and cheese were some of the
>>>> first Universal Foods discovered/invented.
>>>
>>> The first universal foods were leaves, fruit and berries, nuts, meat,
>>> fish and milk.
>>
>> But they weren't prepared/invented. They weren't even really
>> "discovered". The eating those foods were just instinct. And they
>> were the same things other animals were eating. Only humans make
>> bread and wine.
>
> Not very "universal" then ;-)

For humans, yes. You seem to keep picking nits and missing the
point.

-sw

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 19:15:28 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe wrote:

> On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 8:11:31 PM UTC-6, Sqwertz wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 09:31:57 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 12:04:04 PM UTC-4, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Isn't rennet present in stomach lining of animals?
>>>
>>> Yes, that's correct. If you put milk in an animal's stomach you get
>>> cheese, not yogurt. Yogurt is produced by bacterial action. Rennet
>>> is an enzyme that works by purely chemical means.
>>>
>>> Of course if you used an actual stomach, you might get both happening
>>> at once.
>>
>> The stomach digests the cheese and leaves you with poo.
> ...
>
> Your profound ignorance of basic human metabolic physiology didn't
> really surprise me, but are you really that uninformed for an
> adult?

I was using a little literary license, dumbass. You knew that. But
if you insist on the correct terminology because you're a "computer
engineer", the results of the second stage of digestion are
technically known as "puke".

So which sounds tastier to you: Moldy poo or moldy puke? Take your
pick, prick.

-sw