On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 23:23:49 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>If any of you have used King Arthur all-purpose flour, have any of you
>noticed that it seems to produce a tougher pie crust than, say, Gold
>Medal or other major brands? All other components being equal, of
>course.
>
>I've pretty much given up on King Arthur AP flour. I would really like
>to find some pastry flour but no stores in my are seem carry it.
>Shipping costs being what they are, I think it's too expensive to order
>online.

I have no problem with KA, but I am used to working with it. It has a
bit more protein than the GM, so perhaps that is the diff.

Have you looked around online to see if there are any local sources
for the pastry flour? In times gone by, I have gotten specialty flours
from local bakeries I frequent, but there are fewer and fewer custom
ones these days, so it is tougher to have a direct relationship.

Can you get cake flour? Try a mix of KA + cake flour and see if that
improves tenderness for you.

In article 23>,
says...
>
> On Mon 05 Nov 2018 04:57:38p, Boron Elgar told us...
>
> > On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 23:23:49 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>If any of you have used King Arthur all-purpose flour, have any of
> >>you noticed that it seems to produce a tougher pie crust than,
> >>say, Gold Medal or other major brands? All other components
> >>being equal, of course.
> >>
> >>I've pretty much given up on King Arthur AP flour. I would really
> >>like to find some pastry flour but no stores in my are seem carry
> >>it. Shipping costs being what they are, I think it's too
> >>expensive to order online.
> >
> > I have no problem with KA, but I am used to working with it. It
> > has a bit more protein than the GM, so perhaps that is the diff.
>
> Other than for pie crust I have no problem with KA AP when I use it
> for cakes, certain yeast breads, and quick breads.
>
> > Have you looked around online to see if there are any local
> > sources for the pastry flour? In times gone by, I have gotten
> > specialty flours from local bakeries I frequent, but there are
> > fewer and fewer custom ones these days, so it is tougher to have a
> > direct relationship.
>
> I've done extensive searches but no local availability. Most show
> results for Bob's Red Mill pastry flour and many of those show it as
> "out of stock". There were a few references for mail order, but I'm
> trying to avoid that. I've called numerous retail stores and no one
> carries it.
>
> > Can you get cake flour? Try a mix of KA + cake flour and see if
> > that improves tenderness for you.
>
> Actually I did try that several times in different ratios, based on
> "recipes" for such on different websites. The results were only
> marginally better.
>
> I'll try Gold Medal AP again as a last ditch effort before I give in
> and mail order some pastry flour.
>
> What really "bugs" me about this is that I've been baking pies for
> over 50 years - all kinds of pies, fruit, custard, cream, etc.
> Double-crust and blind-baked shells. My success rate is beeter than
> 90% for tender flaky crusts. The last perfect pie I baked was nearly
> 3 years ago. it's discouaging.
>

New oven? or maybe something has changed in your old one; one or more
of doorseals, fan, thermostat or timer showing their age/ not working
quite as efficiently as they should, or did.

I'd test the thermostat/ temperature control against a freestanding
oven thermometer, and the integral oven timer against an alarm clock.


Janet UK

On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 05:00:56 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Mon 05 Nov 2018 04:57:38p, Boron Elgar told us...
>
snip

>> Can you get cake flour? Try a mix of KA + cake flour and see if
>> that improves tenderness for you.
>
>Actually I did try that several times in different ratios, based on
>"recipes" for such on different websites. The results were only
>marginally better.
>
>I'll try Gold Medal AP again as a last ditch effort before I give in
>and mail order some pastry flour.
>
>What really "bugs" me about this is that I've been baking pies for
>over 50 years - all kinds of pies, fruit, custard, cream, etc.
>Double-crust and blind-baked shells. My success rate is beeter than
>90% for tender flaky crusts. The last perfect pie I baked was nearly
>3 years ago. it's discouaging.
>
>When I find a solution I'll post the results.
>
>Thanks for your comments, Boron. Much appareciated!

Happy to offer any assistance I can.

Can you get Hecker's/Ceresota flour out there? It is AP, but I have
found that it works better for me on crusts.

I do have to admit that I do few of my own crusts these days (I still
do specialty ones - almond flour, crumb, other nut, etc), but for
plain ones have succumbed to convenience and buy Oronoque Orchards
frozen crusts. I wait until they are on sale and stash a few in the
freezer.

I do find, though, that the basic grocery stores by me offer fewer and
fewer varieties of flour, especially the interesting ones. The Bob's
Red Mill gets put in with the organics, away from the regular baking
aisle and are generally sold in small bags. Hodgeson Mills is also a
decent flour, but again, getting scarce.

Same thing with other product types - I went looking for champagne
vinegar the other day and nada. I could have gotten 12 kinds of
balsamic, though. Or 32 kinds of apple cider vinegar.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
....
> I'm going to give GOld Medal one more try. If that doesn't work then
> I'll just have to bite the bullet and order pastry flour that costs
> less than the shipping. :-)

i don't do Amazon, but supposedly free shipping for
the holidays...


songbird

On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 05:00:56 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Mon 05 Nov 2018 04:57:38p, Boron Elgar told us...
>
>> On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 23:23:49 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>If any of you have used King Arthur all-purpose flour, have any of
>>>you noticed that it seems to produce a tougher pie crust than,
>>>say, Gold Medal or other major brands? All other components
>>>being equal, of course.

snip

Wayne, Winco carries flour in bulk. All kinds. I know you don't want
to travel far to go to a grocery store but if you're stuck Winco is
there. My Winco carries Bob's Red Mill and some undisclosed brand.
You could call and check to see what kind of pastry flour they carry.
Janet US

On Tue, 06 Nov 2018 07:56:27 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
snip
- I went looking for champagne
>vinegar the other day and nada. I could have gotten 12 kinds of
>balsamic, though. Or 32 kinds of apple cider vinegar.

I had the same problem. Champagne and sherry vinegar were next to
impossible to find but balsamic and apple cider were available
everywhere. Final found what I wanted at the food co-op/health food
store.
Janet US

On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 15:35:07 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

snip
Wayne, a food co-op/health food store is another idea for the flour
you are looking for.
Janet US

On Tue, 06 Nov 2018 10:47:00 -0700, U.S. Janet B. >
wrote:

>On Tue, 06 Nov 2018 07:56:27 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:
>snip
>- I went looking for champagne
>>vinegar the other day and nada. I could have gotten 12 kinds of
>>balsamic, though. Or 32 kinds of apple cider vinegar.
>
>I had the same problem. Champagne and sherry vinegar were next to
>impossible to find but balsamic and apple cider were available
>everywhere. Final found what I wanted at the food co-op/health food
>store.
>Janet US


Apple cider vinegar is a health food fad right now and balsamic is
still a foodie thing, but the idea that the other varieties are hard
to find is strange to me.

I need to broaden my store searches.