On Wednesday, May 8, 2019 at 5:10:03 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Wed, 8 May 2019 13:53:43 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
> > wrote:
>
> >Fresh lake perch, walleye and even Northern (Pike) are pretty hard to beat, taste-wise.
> >Have you ever tried any of those?
>
> People derive their identity from what they like and don't like to
> eat. That's why they always tell us in RFC. "Ha, never in my house!"
> "Ha, I'll never eat that!" "Ha, you can have my portion!" "Ha, I'll
> only eat prawns when they've been caught on a Wednesday morning doing
> the backstroke!" Asking them to change their mind is asking them to
> lose their sense of identity.

Or lose their sense of taste. Face it. Everybody's sensory apparatus
is different. Hardly anybody will like the taste of everything they're
offered to eat.

Cindy Hamilton

On Thu, 9 May 2019 02:52:11 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 8, 2019 at 5:10:03 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 May 2019 13:53:43 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Fresh lake perch, walleye and even Northern (Pike) are pretty hard to beat, taste-wise.
>> >Have you ever tried any of those?
>>
>> People derive their identity from what they like and don't like to
>> eat. That's why they always tell us in RFC. "Ha, never in my house!"
>> "Ha, I'll never eat that!" "Ha, you can have my portion!" "Ha, I'll
>> only eat prawns when they've been caught on a Wednesday morning doing
>> the backstroke!" Asking them to change their mind is asking them to
>> lose their sense of identity.
>
>Or lose their sense of taste. Face it. Everybody's sensory apparatus
>is different. Hardly anybody will like the taste of everything they're
>offered to eat.

<dsi1>
Some people need a little famine every now and then.
</dsi1>

On Thu, 9 May 2019 02:51:11 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 8, 2019 at 4:53:47 PM UTC-4, Nancy2 wrote:
>> Fresh lake perch, walleye and even Northern (Pike) are pretty hard to beat, taste-wise.
>> Have you ever tried any of those?
>>
>> N.
>
>Yes. Still hate freshwater fish. It all tastes like mud.

No, it doesn't, but you'll never know. Your mind's made up and closed.
That's alright though. We all have our prejudices.

songbird wrote:
>
> we do eat meat at times
> but it isn't often we cook it here at home. when
> i do i have to wash the pan two or three times to
> remove the rancid smell that comes from it.

Now that comment strikes me as odd. Have to wash the pan
2-3 times to remove the rancid smell? Do you use soap?

Also....."rancid?" Are you buying fresh meat?

If fresh meat leaves a rancid smell, I'm suprised that
you eat meat at all. ;-O

On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 6:30:32 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, 9 May 2019 02:51:11 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, May 8, 2019 at 4:53:47 PM UTC-4, Nancy2 wrote:
> >> Fresh lake perch, walleye and even Northern (Pike) are pretty hard to beat, taste-wise.
> >> Have you ever tried any of those?
> >>
> >> N.
> >
> >Yes. Still hate freshwater fish. It all tastes like mud.
>
> No, it doesn't, but you'll never know. Your mind's made up and closed.
> That's alright though. We all have our prejudices.

I have eaten freshwater fish off and on all of my life. My
mind is made up because I have experience.

Cindy Hamilton

Nancy2 wrote:
>
> Fresh lake perch, walleye and even Northern (Pike) are pretty hard to beat, taste-wise.
> Have you ever tried any of those?
>
> N.

Only fresh water fish was once with Tilapia. That was ok. Never
had northern pike or walleye. Used to catch (and release) many
perch but so close to Washington DC area, the river was very
polluted so you didn't dare eat the fish that you caught in that
area. It was catch and release only...just fishing for fun.

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
....
> I live in Michigan. There's a ton of sport fishing here, and
> I've had ample opportunity to develop a dislike for freshwater
> fish.

i do too, and i've had plenty of fish that don't.
however, most of the fish i eat have come from
pretty cold running streams, Lake Superior or the
oceans.

the muddy/fishy taste in many fish may be from
the algae in the water.

i've had northern pike that were just above
legal limit that tasted really good and same
fish downstate (around here) i wouldn't touch.

i'm not a big fish/seafood eater unless i
know where and how it is caught.

when i was living in the UP and fishing a lot
i'd eat a few here or there and almost all of them
were good. the only one i recall not liking was
a large small mouth bass i had fun bringing in
one evening. i meant to release it but the lure
was way down and did too much damage so i had to
clean it and filet it. normally with the warmer
water fish that are apex predators i want them to
be just above legal limit.


songbird

Gary wrote:
> songbird wrote:
>>
>> we do eat meat at times
>> but it isn't often we cook it here at home. when
>> i do i have to wash the pan two or three times to
>> remove the rancid smell that comes from it.
>
> Now that comment strikes me as odd. Have to wash the pan
> 2-3 times to remove the rancid smell? Do you use soap?

yes we do have soap/degreaser. a cast iron pan should
not be scrubbed so severely tho. the other pans i wash
once to get the bulk of the gunk off and then the 2nd
time to finish. once in a while the 3rd time is after
a wash of bleach solution.


> Also....."rancid?" Are you buying fresh meat?

fresh meat smells ok, the wrapping stuff can smell
after a few minutes when thrown in the trash. sometimes
i rinse it with the soapy water from doing the dishes
so it doesn't reek so bad. i keep old ziplock bags
handy for throwing things away in or for double or
triple wrapping to put in the fridge. i've found this
past year i can use some short squat wide mouthed jars
for putting burgers in and they seal well enough i
don't hear complaints. washed once glass usually will
not hold the rancid smell (plastic things do).


> If fresh meat leaves a rancid smell, I'm suprised that
> you eat meat at all. ;-O

it is only after cooking so it is something going
on with the fats and heat which is giving that smell.
wash it a few times and it becomes faint enough that
it will then air out enough for me not to notice it
unless i stick my nose right up close to the pan.

after i wash the iron frying pan i recoat it with
a little oil to keep it from rusting.

the other pans we use once in a while we rinse
them with bleach solution to deodorize them and
remove some stains, then i wash them again.

if you have never been a vegetarian for long you
will not even notice this smell in most cases. if
you stop cooking meat/seafood at home you'll begin
to notice it eventually if your nose is sensitive
enough. i think both of us are extra sensitive
because we react to a lot of things otherwise too
(like very faint amounts of smoke).


songbird

On Thu, 09 May 2019 07:48:20 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>songbird wrote:
>>
>> we do eat meat at times
>> but it isn't often we cook it here at home. when
>> i do i have to wash the pan two or three times to
>> remove the rancid smell that comes from it.
>
>Now that comment strikes me as odd. Have to wash the pan
>2-3 times to remove the rancid smell? Do you use soap?
>
>Also....."rancid?" Are you buying fresh meat?
>
>If fresh meat leaves a rancid smell, I'm suprised that
>you eat meat at all. ;-O

Well, it is carrion, Gary.

Gary wrote:

> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >
> > Gary wrote:
> > > Only seafood gone bad smells like fish.
> >
> > What does seafood not gone bad smell like? Roses?
> >
> > Of course seafood smells like fish. When I'm done
> > grilling salmon my clothing smells like grilled salmon.
>
> Old stuff then, Cindy. Fresh seafood of any kind has no smell at
> all. Certainly won't make your clothes smell. That's silly. If
> you smell fish, you are using too long dead seafood. Not kidding.
>
> Fresh is the answer. You kill a live anything then immediately
> cook and no smell...ever.

Close but not entirely. There are some types that have a stong aroma
when fresh. Mackeral comes ot mind.

On 5/8/2019 10:13 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> I generally buy frozen seafood and defrost it myself. It's the
> only way to know how long it has been defrosted.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

Same here, Cindy. When I buy sea scallops I buy the flash frozen ones
that come in a resealable bag. I can thaw as many or as few as I want.
The little sign on the sea scallops in the seafood case indicates they
were previously frozen. Sure, they're in a cold case on a bed of ice
but I have no idea how long ago they thawed them.

Jill

On 2019-05-15 8:48 a.m., jmcquown wrote:

> Same here, Cindy.Â* When I buy sea scallops I buy the flash frozen ones
> that come in a resealable bag.Â* I can thaw as many or as few as I want.
> The little sign on the sea scallops in the seafood case indicates they
> were previously frozen.Â* Sure, they're in a cold case on a bed of ice
> but I have no idea how long ago they thawed them.

A month or so ago I bought a bag of flash frozen scallops at Costco upon
the recommendation of someone here. They were delicious. We kind of
pigged out on them and had two good feeds for two. The next time we will
be a little more judicious with the servings.

On 5/15/2019 6:48 AM, jmcquown wrote:

> Sure, they're in a cold case on a bed of ice
> but I have no idea how long ago they thawed them.

Trouble with "flash frozen" is, the product (be it shrimp, scallops,
fish, etc) jes does NOT last as long in the freezer.

Usta be, Black Tailed shrimp would last forever cuz they were frozen in
water (a block of ice). No longer!

Now, they are now flash frozen and start drying out after a few weeks.
Let 'em go and they will dry out to the point of "gotta toss 'em".

Kinda like putting that huge slug of toothpaste on yer toothbrush.
Looks good in the commercials (and makes you buy more), but all that
toothpaste is unnecessary.

nb

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 11:06:21 AM UTC-4, notbob wrote:
> On 5/15/2019 6:48 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>
> > Sure, they're in a cold case on a bed of ice
> > but I have no idea how long ago they thawed them.
>
> Trouble with "flash frozen" is, the product (be it shrimp, scallops,
> fish, etc) jes does NOT last as long in the freezer.
>
> Usta be, Black Tailed shrimp would last forever cuz they were frozen in
> water (a block of ice). No longer!
>
> Now, they are now flash frozen and start drying out after a few weeks.
> Let 'em go and they will dry out to the point of "gotta toss 'em".
>


What alternative do you suggest? The only shrimp I can buy are
IQF. I inquired at the fishmonger about "frozen in a block of ice"
and the smallest quantity was about 20 pounds, leaving me with the
alternative of defrosting, cooking, and eating 20 pounds of shrimp
or sawing up the block of ice and having weird partial shrimp.

Cindy Hamilton

On Wed, 15 May 2019 09:06:13 -0600, notbob > wrote:

>On 5/15/2019 6:48 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>
>> Sure, they're in a cold case on a bed of ice
>> but I have no idea how long ago they thawed them.
>
>Trouble with "flash frozen" is, the product (be it shrimp, scallops,
>fish, etc) jes does NOT last as long in the freezer.
>
>Usta be, Black Tailed shrimp would last forever cuz they were frozen in
>water (a block of ice). No longer!
>
>Now, they are now flash frozen and start drying out after a few weeks.
>Let 'em go and they will dry out to the point of "gotta toss 'em".
>
>Kinda like putting that huge slug of toothpaste on yer toothbrush.
>Looks good in the commercials (and makes you buy more), but all that
>toothpaste is unnecessary.
>
>nb

the problem is with the 'frost free' feature of your freezer. The
constant thawing and re-freezing is tough on stuff in your freezer.
The frozen items that I keep in my deep freeze are fine. Stuff in the
freezer that comes with the fridge get ice crystals inside packaging.
I generally double package stuff in the fridge/freezer and that helps
but doesn't cure a problem for something kept long term
Janet US

On 5/15/2019 9:45 AM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:

> the problem is with the 'frost free' feature of your freezer.

No, it's not!

I'm familiar w/ the "frost free" feature in my fridge, as I've worked on
'em, before.

The problem is seafood frozen in water vs "flash freezing" is the stuff
frozen in "ice" lasts much, much longer.

I usta get free trout from my buddy. He froze the fish in old wax
half-gallon milk containers (fulla water). They would keep ferever!

nb

On Wed, 15 May 2019 08:22:02 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 11:06:21 AM UTC-4, notbob wrote:
>> On 5/15/2019 6:48 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> > Sure, they're in a cold case on a bed of ice
>> > but I have no idea how long ago they thawed them.
>>
>> Trouble with "flash frozen" is, the product (be it shrimp, scallops,
>> fish, etc) jes does NOT last as long in the freezer.
>>
>> Usta be, Black Tailed shrimp would last forever cuz they were frozen in
>> water (a block of ice). No longer!
>>
>> Now, they are now flash frozen and start drying out after a few weeks.
>> Let 'em go and they will dry out to the point of "gotta toss 'em".
>
>What alternative do you suggest? The only shrimp I can buy are
>IQF. I inquired at the fishmonger about "frozen in a block of ice"
>and the smallest quantity was about 20 pounds, leaving me with the
>alternative of defrosting, cooking, and eating 20 pounds of shrimp
>or sawing up the block of ice and having weird partial shrimp.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

For most of my life I've lived within walking distance of the sea so I
got used to fresh seafood, still live or out of the water no more than
eight hours... NEVER frozen. In NYC there were fish mongers
everywhere, and a huge fleet of fishing boats. The fish monger my
mom shopped from would toss in a couple pounds of fresh caught shrimp
free with the fish she bought. That's how it was with all the
specialty shops; the green grocer gave free herbs and soup greens to
customers. the butcher gave free soup bones an d free offal (liver,
hearts, kidney, etc.). I no longer eat seafood as I can't buy any but
previously frozen or old where I live now.... previously frozen is
disgusting, I'd much rather canned. Growing up the people in NYC
shopped daily as everyone had an ice-a-box... even today folks in NYC
who like to cook shop daily... because of all the ethnic neighborhoods
every food on the planet is available fresh in NYC,

On 5/15/2019 11:02 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2019-05-15 8:48 a.m., jmcquown wrote:
>
>> Same here, Cindy.Â* When I buy sea scallops I buy the flash frozen ones
>> that come in a resealable bag.Â* I can thaw as many or as few as I
>> want. The little sign on the sea scallops in the seafood case
>> indicates they were previously frozen.Â* Sure, they're in a cold case
>> on a bed of ice but I have no idea how long ago they thawed them.
>
> A month or so ago I bought a bag of flash frozen scallops at Costco upon
> the recommendation of someone here. They were delicious. We kind of
> pigged out on them and had two good feeds for two. The next time we will
> be a little more judicious with the servings.
>
IMHO it's better to buy the flash frozen bagged scallops than wonder how
long those (thawed) scallops have been sitting on ice at the seafood
counter. I don't live in an area where scallops are fished.

Unless I buy them with an immediate plan to cook them, I usually
re-package and freeze them. I certainly don't want to re-freeze
previously frozen scallops. Texture and taste tends to suffer.

Jill

On 5/15/2019 11:06 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 5/15/2019 6:48 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>
>> Sure, they're in a cold case on a bed of ice but I have no idea how
>> long ago they thawed them.
>
> Trouble with "flash frozen" is, the product (be it shrimp, scallops,
> fish, etc) jes does NOT last as long in the freezer.
>
> Usta be, Black Tailed shrimp would last forever cuz they were frozen in
> water (a block of ice).Â* No longer!
>
Sorry, I've never had anything frozen in blocks of ice.

> Now, they are now flash frozen and start drying out after a few weeks.
> Let 'em go and they will dry out to the point of "gotta toss 'em".
>
Not my experience with flash frozen fish, nb. Maybe there's a problem
with your freezer. Or the products you're buying.

> Kinda like putting that huge slug of toothpaste on yer toothbrush. Looks
> good in the commercials (and makes you buy more), but all that
> toothpaste is unnecessary.Â*
>
> nb

I have no idea why you're blethering about toothpaste.

Jill

On 5/15/2019 12:09 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 5/15/2019 9:45 AM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>
>> the problem is with the 'frost free' feature of your freezer.
>
> No, it's not!
>
> I'm familiar w/ the "frost free" feature in my fridge, as I've worked on
> 'em, before.
>
> The problem is seafood frozen in water vs "flash freezing" is the stuff
> frozen in "ice" lasts much, much longer.
>
> I usta get free trout from my buddy.Â* He froze the fish in old wax
> half-gallon milk containers (fulla water).Â* They would keep ferever!Â*
>
> nb

Uh... what you and your buddy did and what is available at the grocery
store as "flash frozen" aren't the same thing. No buckets, not blocks
of water. Commercial fishing boats.

The flash frozen fish and seafood I buy definitely don't start drying
out or need to be tossed in a few weeks. Yours is either very poorly
wrapped or the problem is your freezer.

Jill

On Wed, 15 May 2019 13:00:31 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 5/15/2019 12:09 PM, notbob wrote:
>> On 5/15/2019 9:45 AM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>>
>>> the problem is with the 'frost free' feature of your freezer.
>>
>> No, it's not!
>>
>> I'm familiar w/ the "frost free" feature in my fridge, as I've worked on
>> 'em, before.
>>
>> The problem is seafood frozen in water vs "flash freezing" is the stuff
>> frozen in "ice" lasts much, much longer.
>>
>> I usta get free trout from my buddy.* He froze the fish in old wax
>> half-gallon milk containers (fulla water).* They would keep ferever!*
>>
>> nb
>
>Uh... what you and your buddy did and what is available at the grocery
>store as "flash frozen" aren't the same thing. No buckets, not blocks
>of water. Commercial fishing boats.
>
>The flash frozen fish and seafood I buy definitely don't start drying
>out or need to be tossed in a few weeks. Yours is either very poorly
>wrapped or the problem is your freezer.
>
>Jill

the stuff that I buy has a thin coating of ice on each individual
piece

On 5/15/2019 3:43 PM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2019 13:00:31 -0400, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/15/2019 12:09 PM, notbob wrote:
>>> On 5/15/2019 9:45 AM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>>>
>>>> the problem is with the 'frost free' feature of your freezer.
>>>
>>> No, it's not!
>>>
>>> I'm familiar w/ the "frost free" feature in my fridge, as I've worked on
>>> 'em, before.
>>>
>>> The problem is seafood frozen in water vs "flash freezing" is the stuff
>>> frozen in "ice" lasts much, much longer.
>>>
>>> I usta get free trout from my buddy.Â* He froze the fish in old wax
>>> half-gallon milk containers (fulla water).Â* They would keep ferever!Â*
>>>
>>> nb
>>
>> Uh... what you and your buddy did and what is available at the grocery
>> store as "flash frozen" aren't the same thing. No buckets, not blocks
>> of water. Commercial fishing boats.
>>
>> The flash frozen fish and seafood I buy definitely don't start drying
>> out or need to be tossed in a few weeks. Yours is either very poorly
>> wrapped or the problem is your freezer.
>>
>> Jill
>
> the stuff that I buy has a thin coating of ice on each individual
> piece
>
The frozen fish I buy is cryovac'd separate fillets.

Jill