I recall a thread on RFC about buttermilk. Essentially, it sed that
making one's own buttermilk (BM) was simply a matter of adding some BM
to some regular milk and freezing it. Yes? No?

I've got 3 cartons of milk. One half gallon of organic reg milk,
unopened, one pint of organic half-n-half, unopened, and one quart of
cultured BM, unopened. I recall buying the BM thinking I would add it
to the reg milk and freeze it, thereby ensuring myself a large supply of
BM, which I use to experiment with. I usta make my BM by adding some
lemon juice to regular milk.

The unopened organic reg milk should be OK. The stuff last damn near
forever, even opened, what with that little opening (screw-on plastic
cap).

What was all that BM talk on RFC?

nb

On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 12:14:19 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
>
> I usta make my BM by adding some
> lemon juice to regular milk.
>
> What was all that BM talk on RFC?
>
> nb
>
I always added vinegar to milk to make buttermilk as I don't have lemons on
hand all the time. But commercial buttermilk will last your refrigerator
for a very, very, very, very looooooong time.

On Tue, 14 May 2019 10:29:03 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 12:14:19 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
>>
>> I usta make my BM by adding some
>> lemon juice to regular milk.
>>
>> What was all that BM talk on RFC?
>>
>> nb
>>
>I always added vinegar to milk to make buttermilk as I don't have lemons on
>hand all the time. But commercial buttermilk will last your refrigerator
>for a very, very, very, very looooooong time.

There was someone on this group this last winter that mentioned they
made more buttermilk by adding residual buttermilk to a new container
of whole milk and letting it set on the counter for a day or two until
the organisms in the original buttermilk had a chance to work on the
new milk. I don't recall all the specifics.
Janet US

On 5/14/2019 1:29 PM, wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 12:14:19 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
>>
>> I usta make my BM by adding some
>> lemon juice to regular milk.
>>
>> What was all that BM talk on RFC?
>>
>> nb
>>
> I always added vinegar to milk to make buttermilk as I don't have lemons on
> hand all the time. But commercial buttermilk will last your refrigerator
> for a very, very, very, very looooooong time.
>
Ditto on the white vinegar added to milk, Joan. I generally only buy
lemons if I'm planning to cook some type of fish. I've tried the Saco
[brand] buttermilk powder but that was decades ago. I know buttermilk
lasts a long time but I rarely use it so I rarely think to buy any.

Jill

On 2019-05-14 11:39 a.m., U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Tue, 14 May 2019 10:29:03 -0700 (PDT), "
> > wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 12:14:19 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
>>>
>>> I usta make my BM by adding some
>>> lemon juice to regular milk.
>>>
>>> What was all that BM talk on RFC?
>>>
>>> nb
>>>
>> I always added vinegar to milk to make buttermilk as I don't have lemons on
>> hand all the time. But commercial buttermilk will last your refrigerator
>> for a very, very, very, very looooooong time.
>
> There was someone on this group this last winter that mentioned they
> made more buttermilk by adding residual buttermilk to a new container
> of whole milk and letting it set on the counter for a day or two until
> the organisms in the original buttermilk had a chance to work on the
> new milk. I don't recall all the specifics.
> Janet US
>
Which is the proper way. It's just like making yoghurt or kefir.

On 5/14/2019 11:51 AM, heyjoe wrote:

> Pretty much. Details from Epicurious,

> <https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/homemade-buttermilk-388713>

Thnx, heyjoe. I get a lotta ideas from that same "Epicurious" site.

nb

On Tue, 14 May 2019 10:29:03 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

> On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 12:14:19 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
>>
>> I usta make my BM by adding some
>> lemon juice to regular milk.
>>
>> What was all that BM talk on RFC?
>>
>> nb
>>
> I always added vinegar to milk to make buttermilk as I don't have lemons on
> hand all the time. But commercial buttermilk will last your refrigerator
> for a very, very, very, very looooooong time.

Cream, yes (usually ultra-pasteurized). But I'm probably not the
only one that doesn't agree with you or whatghisface that buttermilk
and [organic] full fat milk will last longer than 2 weeks.

Th higher the fat content, the more perishable it is. Except for
cultured buttermilk. It's processed further at warm temperatures
after being pasteurized. Making it the most perishable of all.

Full fat and 2% is stamped 2 weeks out. I open within 3 days of
manufacture. It typically lasts util the stamp date if I open it at
least once a day and optionally chug out of the bottle most days.

Buttermilk, a quart will be opened and one glass poured, then will
sit in the fridge and be bad within 7 days. No chugging, no opening
every day. If I can get to it int tie, I'll freeze it in ice cube
trays to make cole slaw, curry, fried chicken (almost never), etc.
But its no good for drinking as it separates (I despise buttermilk
anyway - Thick, sour, gross)

-sw

On Tue, 14 May 2019 11:39:35 -0600, U.S. Janet B. wrote:

> On Tue, 14 May 2019 10:29:03 -0700 (PDT), "
> > wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 12:14:19 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
>>>
>>> I usta make my BM by adding some
>>> lemon juice to regular milk.
>>>
>>> What was all that BM talk on RFC?
>>>
>>> nb
>>>
>>I always added vinegar to milk to make buttermilk as I don't have lemons on
>>hand all the time. But commercial buttermilk will last your refrigerator
>>for a very, very, very, very looooooong time.
>
> There was someone on this group this last winter that mentioned they
> made more buttermilk by adding residual buttermilk to a new container
> of whole milk and letting it set on the counter for a day or two until
> the organisms in the original buttermilk had a chance to work on the
> new milk. I don't recall all the specifics.
> Janet US

Same process is how they make commercial buttermilk. lactic acid
starter culture, let ferment at 60-65F(?) for 12 hours, and ...
cultured buttermilk. You have to use really fresh milk and fresh
buttermilk to be highly successful - a catch-22. If you have fresh
buttermilk, why are you making more buttermilk? And if you have
fresh milk, why didn't you pick up buttermilk, too?

And if you're whathisface, you buy both with the intention of making
more to freeze. What just makes you ... dumb? Its not sourdough
where you're adding "local mold flavor". Bad for milk products, OK
for baked bread.

-swsw

itsjoan, are you sure that you added vinegar to regular milk to make buttermilk? My
mom always told me, and I did it, to add vinegar to regular milk to make SOUR milk,
like for chocolate cake that calls for sour milk, not for buttermilk.

I am just curious; not saying you are wrong. I just never heard of vinegar in regular milk
to make buttermilk. ;-))

N.

On 5/14/2019 4:06 PM, Nancy2 wrote:
> itsjoan, are you sure that you added vinegar to regular milk to make buttermilk? My
> mom always told me, and I did it, to add vinegar to regular milk to make SOUR milk,
> like for chocolate cake that calls for sour milk, not for buttermilk.
>
> I am just curious; not saying you are wrong. I just never heard of vinegar in regular milk
> to make buttermilk. ;-))
>
> N.
>
It's a shortcut that's been written about in a lot of old cookbooks. I
think I first read about it in a Betty Crocker cookbook. It's not
actual buttermilk, just a very handy way to make a substitution if you
don't have actual buttermilk and all you need is a cup or so of it.

Jill

On Tue, 14 May 2019 12:51:45 -0500, heyjoe wrote:

> On Tue, 14 May 2019 11:14:10 -0600
> in Message-ID: >
> notbob > wrote :
>
>> I recall a thread on RFC about buttermilk. Essentially, it sed that
>> making one's own buttermilk (BM) was simply a matter of adding some BM
>> to some regular milk and freezing it. Yes? No?
>
> Pretty much. Details from Epicurious,
> <https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/homemade-buttermilk-388713>

Except for this part:

"Sadly, the supermarket stuff is "eh" at best. So we make our own."

Total bullshit. Where are you getting that milk and cultured
buttermilk? Buttermilk is best done right under controlled
conditions. Warm place for 24-36 hours?

The only advantage to making your own is making it from full fat or
2% milk, which is not really "buttermilk" in any sense.

-sw

On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 2:52:54 PM UTC-5, Sqwertz wrote:
> On Tue, 14 May 2019 10:29:03 -0700 (PDT),
> wrote:
>
> > I always added vinegar to milk to make buttermilk as I don't have lemons on
> > hand all the time. But commercial buttermilk will last your refrigerator
> > for a very, very, very, very looooooong time.
>
> Cream, yes (usually ultra-pasteurized). But I'm probably not the
> only one that doesn't agree with you or whatghisface that buttermilk
> and [organic] full fat milk will last longer than 2 weeks.
>
Disagreeing again. Yes, full fat or low fat buttermilk will last in your
refrigerator for an e.x.c.e.e.d.i.n.g.l.y looooooooong time.
>
> Th higher the fat content, the more perishable it is. Except for
> cultured buttermilk. It's processed further at warm temperatures
> after being pasteurized. Making it the most perishable of all.
>
> Full fat and 2% is stamped 2 weeks out. I open within 3 days of
> manufacture. It typically lasts util the stamp date if I open it at
> least once a day and optionally chug out of the bottle most days.
>
> Buttermilk, a quart will be opened and one glass poured, then will
> sit in the fridge and be bad within 7 days. No chugging, no opening
> every day. If I can get to it int tie, I'll freeze it in ice cube
> trays to make cole slaw, curry, fried chicken (almost never), etc.
> But its no good for drinking as it separates (I despise buttermilk
> anyway - Thick, sour, gross)
>
> -sw
>
I guarantee that commercial buttermilk, no matter the fat content, will last
unbelievably a VERY, VERY, VERY long time in your 'frig. I always give it
a hardy shake before using. It looks, smells, and tastes like a brand new,
fresh carton straight from your grocery store.

On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 3:06:06 PM UTC-5, Nancy2 wrote:
>
> itsjoan, are you sure that you added vinegar to regular milk to make buttermilk? My
> mom always told me, and I did it, to add vinegar to regular milk to make SOUR milk,
> like for chocolate cake that calls for sour milk, not for buttermilk.
>
> I am just curious; not saying you are wrong. I just never heard of vinegar in regular milk
> to make buttermilk. ;-))
>
> N.
>
True, it's not *real* buttermilk, just soured milk giving it that similar
twang of buttermilk. It's a good substitute when you don't have the real
stuff on hand when needed for some recipes.

> wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 3:06:06 PM UTC-5, Nancy2 wrote:
>>
>> itsjoan, are you sure that you added vinegar to regular milk to make buttermilk? My
>> mom always told me, and I did it, to add vinegar to regular milk to make SOUR milk,
>> like for chocolate cake that calls for sour milk, not for buttermilk.
>>
>> I am just curious; not saying you are wrong. I just never heard of
>> vinegar in regular milk
>> to make buttermilk. ;-))
>>
>> N.
>>
> True, it's not *real* buttermilk, just soured milk giving it that similar
> twang of buttermilk. It's a good substitute when you don't have the real
> stuff on hand when needed for some recipes.
>

I do it all the time too as a quick substitute in baked goods (quick breads
and muffins, etc.). There has been no discernible difference in anything
Ive made, but Im sure theres something out there that would not fare
well with the vinegar/milk substitution.

On 2019-05-14 5:38 p.m., wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 3:06:06 PM UTC-5, Nancy2 wrote:

>> I am just curious; not saying you are wrong. I just never heard of vinegar in regular milk
>> to make buttermilk. ;-))
>>
>> N.
>>
> True, it's not *real* buttermilk, just soured milk giving it that similar
> twang of buttermilk. It's a good substitute when you don't have the real
> stuff on hand when needed for some recipes.

It has been discussed here in the past. It is not the way to make
buttermilk. It is the way to make a substitute. I do it frequently and
it works. Some of the best pancakes I have made not only used soured
milk, but had a little vanilla yogurt thrown in too.

On 5/14/2019 5:54 PM, Jinx the Minx wrote:
> > wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 3:06:06 PM UTC-5, Nancy2 wrote:
>>>
>>> itsjoan, are you sure that you added vinegar to regular milk to make buttermilk? My
>>> mom always told me, and I did it, to add vinegar to regular milk to make SOUR milk,
>>> like for chocolate cake that calls for sour milk, not for buttermilk.
>>>
>>> I am just curious; not saying you are wrong. I just never heard of
>>> vinegar in regular milk
>>> to make buttermilk. ;-))
>>>
>>> N.
>>>
>> True, it's not *real* buttermilk, just soured milk giving it that similar
>> twang of buttermilk. It's a good substitute when you don't have the real
>> stuff on hand when needed for some recipes.
>>
>
> I do it all the time too as a quick substitute in baked goods (quick breads
> and muffins, etc.). There has been no discernible difference in anything
> Ive made, but Im sure theres something out there that would not fare
> well with the vinegar/milk substitution.
>
I rarely make anything that calls for actual buttermilk, which is why I
don't have it on hand. The vinegar in milk trick works just fine. No
one claims it turns it *into* buttermilk. It sours and thickens the
milk so that when whisked it makes has the same consistency and has the
tang of buttermilk. Especially if you're just adding it to a quickbread
like cornbread.

Jill

jmcquown > wrote:
> On 5/14/2019 5:54 PM, Jinx the Minx wrote:
>> > wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 3:06:06 PM UTC-5, Nancy2 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> itsjoan, are you sure that you added vinegar to regular milk to make buttermilk? My
>>>> mom always told me, and I did it, to add vinegar to regular milk to make SOUR milk,
>>>> like for chocolate cake that calls for sour milk, not for buttermilk.
>>>>
>>>> I am just curious; not saying you are wrong. I just never heard of
>>>> vinegar in regular milk
>>>> to make buttermilk. ;-))
>>>>
>>>> N.
>>>>
>>> True, it's not *real* buttermilk, just soured milk giving it that similar
>>> twang of buttermilk. It's a good substitute when you don't have the real
>>> stuff on hand when needed for some recipes.
>>>
>>
>> I do it all the time too as a quick substitute in baked goods (quick breads
>> and muffins, etc.). There has been no discernible difference in anything
>> Ive made, but Im sure theres something out there that would not fare
>> well with the vinegar/milk substitution.
>>
> I rarely make anything that calls for actual buttermilk, which is why I
> don't have it on hand. The vinegar in milk trick works just fine. No
> one claims it turns it *into* buttermilk. It sours and thickens the
> milk so that when whisked it makes has the same consistency and has the
> tang of buttermilk. Especially if you're just adding it to a quickbread
> like cornbread.
>
> Jill
>

As far as Im concerned, buttermilk or this soured milk substitution is the
key to moist quick breads. I wont make banana bread without it.

> On 5/14/2019 5:54 PM, Jinx the Minx wrote:

>> I do it all the time too as a quick substitute in baked goods (quick
>> breads

Yep. 1 tsP of wht vinegar or lemon juice in 1 C of milk is the usual
recommendation. I use it all the time. Works fine.

I jes figured I actually buy some real buttermilk. It's not really
"real" BM, but it's close enough.

nb

Well, itsjoan, I learned something about buttermilk subs. I have used the powdered
buttermilk in the past, and think it is handy to have in the cupboard.

N.

On Tue, 14 May 2019 14:36:31 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:


snip
>>
>I guarantee that commercial buttermilk, no matter the fat content, will last
>unbelievably a VERY, VERY, VERY long time in your 'frig. I always give it
>a hardy shake before using. It looks, smells, and tastes like a brand new,
>fresh carton straight from your grocery store.

I have to agree. Even opened containers last a long time. But, all
containers of milk in this house spend mere minutes outside of the
fridge. I get what I need and back in the fridge it goes.
Janet US