Bruce wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 15:21:42 -0700 (PDT), dsi1
> > wrote:
>
>> On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 2:43:33 PM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 17:28:11 -0700 (PDT), dsi1
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 11:18:32 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> And how will that be in the future?
>>>>
>>>> America won't be seen as a land of unlimited opportunity and the home of freedom. Mostly it's going to be a dog eat dog world and a land of struggling to grab as much as you can before it all goes to shit. We'll be the land of the greed and the home of the struggling. Don't quote me, I could be wrong.
>>>
>>> That's the present, but how about the future?
>>
>> What the heck do you know about America? The only time you've seen America is on the TV i.e., "idiot box."
>
> Did you know that your country has an international reputation? And
> that it ain't pretty?
>

Sure, it can't get any worse. That's why we urinate on guys like
yoose. Plus, it just feels good to **** in yoose face Druce.

On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 12:41:38 PM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 15:21:42 -0700 (PDT), dsi1
> > wrote:
>
> >On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 2:43:33 PM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
> >> On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 17:28:11 -0700 (PDT), dsi1
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 11:18:32 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> And how will that be in the future?
> >> >
> >> >America won't be seen as a land of unlimited opportunity and the home of freedom. Mostly it's going to be a dog eat dog world and a land of struggling to grab as much as you can before it all goes to shit. We'll be the land of the greed and the home of the struggling. Don't quote me, I could be wrong.
> >>
> >> That's the present, but how about the future?
> >
> >What the heck do you know about America? The only time you've seen America is on the TV i.e., "idiot box."
>
> Did you know that your country has an international reputation? And
> that it ain't pretty?

Okay, so what's the point you're trying to make? My guess it's that you're into smug self-satisfaction and gloating. Ha ha, that ain't cool.

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 16:36:22 -0700 (PDT), dsi1
> wrote:

>On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 12:41:38 PM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 15:21:42 -0700 (PDT), dsi1
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 2:43:33 PM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 17:28:11 -0700 (PDT), dsi1
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 11:18:32 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And how will that be in the future?
>> >> >
>> >> >America won't be seen as a land of unlimited opportunity and the home of freedom. Mostly it's going to be a dog eat dog world and a land of struggling to grab as much as you can before it all goes to shit. We'll be the land of the greed and the home of the struggling. Don't quote me, I could be wrong.
>> >>
>> >> That's the present, but how about the future?
>> >
>> >What the heck do you know about America? The only time you've seen America is on the TV i.e., "idiot box."
>>
>> Did you know that your country has an international reputation? And
>> that it ain't pretty?
>
>Okay, so what's the point you're trying to make? My guess it's that you're into smug self-satisfaction and gloating. Ha ha, that ain't cool.

Yeah, nothing like a good gloat every now and then!

"dsi1" wrote in message
...

On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 12:44:05 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 8:28:14 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 11:18:32 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
> > >
> > > And how will that be in the future?
> >
> > America won't be seen as a land of unlimited opportunity and the home of
> > freedom. Mostly it's going to be a dog eat dog world and a land of
> > struggling to grab as much as you can before it all goes to shit. We'll
> > be the land of the greed and the home of the struggling. Don't quote me,
> > I could be wrong.
>
> FFS it's always been that way. Why do you think Hawaii is American?
>
> Cindy Hamilton

For ****s sake, you live in the a place where half the population
hates/disrespects/fears the other half. What the heck do you expect? That's
your town, not my town.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/sta...ppiest-states/

====

Wow, lucky you)

On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 6:28:39 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 12:44:05 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 8:28:14 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > > On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 11:18:32 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
> > > >
> > > > And how will that be in the future?
> > >
> > > America won't be seen as a land of unlimited opportunity and the home of freedom. Mostly it's going to be a dog eat dog world and a land of struggling to grab as much as you can before it all goes to shit. We'll be the land of the greed and the home of the struggling. Don't quote me, I could be wrong.
> >
> > FFS it's always been that way. Why do you think Hawaii is American?
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
>
> For ****s sake, you live in the a place where half the population hates/disrespects/fears the other half. What the heck do you expect? That's your town, not my town.
>
> http://worldpopulationreview.com/sta...ppiest-states/

Deflection duly noted. America has always been greedy and imperialistic.
That's why we own Hawaii.

And, incidentally, we're why you speak English instead of Japanese. If
you think Hawaiians were mistreated by white people, that's nothing to
what they would have experienced had Japan involved themselves instead
of the U.S.

Cindy Hamilton

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 03:59:54 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 6:28:39 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>> On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 12:44:05 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> >
>> > FFS it's always been that way. Why do you think Hawaii is American?
>> >
>> > Cindy Hamilton
>>
>> For ****s sake, you live in the a place where half the population hates/disrespects/fears the other half. What the heck do you expect? That's your town, not my town.
>>
>> http://worldpopulationreview.com/sta...ppiest-states/
>
>Deflection duly noted. America has always been greedy and imperialistic.
>That's why we own Hawaii.
>
>And, incidentally, we're why you speak English instead of Japanese. If
>you think Hawaiians were mistreated by white people, that's nothing to
>what they would have experienced had Japan involved themselves instead
>of the U.S.

Touché! Also, for the poor victimised Hawaiian that he pretends to be,
he has no problem adopting the Christian religion of the white
oppressor. Hypocrisy and nonsense on so many levels!

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 12:59:58 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 6:28:39 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 12:44:05 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > > On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 8:28:14 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > > > On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 11:18:32 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > And how will that be in the future?
> > > >
> > > > America won't be seen as a land of unlimited opportunity and the home of freedom. Mostly it's going to be a dog eat dog world and a land of struggling to grab as much as you can before it all goes to shit. We'll be the land of the greed and the home of the struggling. Don't quote me, I could be wrong.
> > >
> > > FFS it's always been that way. Why do you think Hawaii is American?
> > >
> > > Cindy Hamilton
> >
> > For ****s sake, you live in the a place where half the population hates/disrespects/fears the other half. What the heck do you expect? That's your town, not my town.
> >
> > http://worldpopulationreview.com/sta...ppiest-states/
>
> Deflection duly noted. America has always been greedy and imperialistic.
> That's why we own Hawaii.
>
> And, incidentally, we're why you speak English instead of Japanese. If
> you think Hawaiians were mistreated by white people, that's nothing to
> what they would have experienced had Japan involved themselves instead
> of the U.S.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of Hawaii as an independent country. You can believe that Japan would have taken over Hawaii but the reality is that Hawaii was not stolen by the Japanese. Your fantasy is totally self-serving.

What the heck do you care what language I speak? That's kind of nutty thing to say. Please don't waste my time with hateful crazy talk. Thank you. Thank you very much.

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 7:29:37 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 12:59:58 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 6:28:39 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > > On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 12:44:05 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > > > On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 8:28:14 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 11:18:32 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And how will that be in the future?
> > > > >
> > > > > America won't be seen as a land of unlimited opportunity and the home of freedom. Mostly it's going to be a dog eat dog world and a land of struggling to grab as much as you can before it all goes to shit. We'll be the land of the greed and the home of the struggling. Don't quote me, I could be wrong.
> > > >
> > > > FFS it's always been that way. Why do you think Hawaii is American?
> > > >
> > > > Cindy Hamilton
> > >
> > > For ****s sake, you live in the a place where half the population hates/disrespects/fears the other half. What the heck do you expect? That's your town, not my town.
> > >
> > > http://worldpopulationreview.com/sta...ppiest-states/
> >
> > Deflection duly noted. America has always been greedy and imperialistic.
> > That's why we own Hawaii.
> >
> > And, incidentally, we're why you speak English instead of Japanese. If
> > you think Hawaiians were mistreated by white people, that's nothing to
> > what they would have experienced had Japan involved themselves instead
> > of the U.S.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
>
> I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of Hawaii as an independent country. You can believe that Japan would have taken over Hawaii but the reality is that Hawaii was not stolen by the Japanese. Your fantasy is totally self-serving.
>
> What the heck do you care what language I speak? That's kind of nutty thing to say. Please don't waste my time with hateful crazy talk. Thank you. Thank you very much.

It's like telling a Brit that without the U.S they'd be speaking German.

Cindy Hamilton

dsi1 wrote:
> I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of Hawaii as an independent country. You can believe that Japan would have taken over Hawaii but the reality is that Hawaii was not stolen by the Japanese. Your fantasy is totally self-serving.

Given the chance, I have no doubt the Japanese would have stolen
Hawaii. Look at history in the early years of the war...they
invaded eastern China and treated those people like crap. At the
time, they were just as evil as the Nazis.

Hitler's big mistake was turning on his Russian allies. Japan's
big mistake was turning on the American Navy based in Hawaii and
awakening a sleeping giant.

Ted Nugent: "The Japanese turned on us and we melted them!"
Note: that's no hearsay. He played a concert right here in
Virginia Beach on a beach stage one year and I was right up front
in the crowd when he said that. That even shocked me. Figured the
city would never invite HIM back again for a concert and so
far....no more Ted Nugent concerts. LOL

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 2:24:42 AM UTC-10, Gary wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
> > I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of Hawaii as an independent country. You can believe that Japan would have taken over Hawaii but the reality is that Hawaii was not stolen by the Japanese. Your fantasy is totally self-serving.
>
> Given the chance, I have no doubt the Japanese would have stolen
> Hawaii. Look at history in the early years of the war...they
> invaded eastern China and treated those people like crap. At the
> time, they were just as evil as the Nazis.
>
> Hitler's big mistake was turning on his Russian allies. Japan's
> big mistake was turning on the American Navy based in Hawaii and
> awakening a sleeping giant.
>
> Ted Nugent: "The Japanese turned on us and we melted them!"
> Note: that's no hearsay. He played a concert right here in
> Virginia Beach on a beach stage one year and I was right up front
> in the crowd when he said that. That even shocked me. Figured the
> city would never invite HIM back again for a concert and so
> far....no more Ted Nugent concerts. LOL

I have no doubt that you guys on the mainland have no doubt that Japan would have invaded Hawaii. You guys probably think that Japan had its sights on invading the United States and that it would have been possible for them to defend and hold on to a rock in the middle of nowhere. You get the last word in this nutty/goofy discussion.

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 2:24:42 AM UTC-10, Gary wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
> > I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of Hawaii as an independent country. You can believe that Japan would have taken over Hawaii but the reality is that Hawaii was not stolen by the Japanese. Your fantasy is totally self-serving.
>
> Given the chance, I have no doubt the Japanese would have stolen
> Hawaii. Look at history in the early years of the war...they
> invaded eastern China and treated those people like crap. At the
> time, they were just as evil as the Nazis.
>
> Hitler's big mistake was turning on his Russian allies. Japan's
> big mistake was turning on the American Navy based in Hawaii and
> awakening a sleeping giant.
>
> Ted Nugent: "The Japanese turned on us and we melted them!"
> Note: that's no hearsay. He played a concert right here in
> Virginia Beach on a beach stage one year and I was right up front
> in the crowd when he said that. That even shocked me. Figured the
> city would never invite HIM back again for a concert and so
> far....no more Ted Nugent concerts. LOL

Say wait a minute, are you quite sure that Mr. Nugent used the word "Japanese?" That doesn't sound like the Ted Nugent that I know. Now you really get the last word!

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 8:48:16 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 2:24:42 AM UTC-10, Gary wrote:
> > dsi1 wrote:
> > > I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of Hawaii as an independent country. You can believe that Japan would have taken over Hawaii but the reality is that Hawaii was not stolen by the Japanese. Your fantasy is totally self-serving.
> >
> > Given the chance, I have no doubt the Japanese would have stolen
> > Hawaii. Look at history in the early years of the war...they
> > invaded eastern China and treated those people like crap. At the
> > time, they were just as evil as the Nazis.
> >
> > Hitler's big mistake was turning on his Russian allies. Japan's
> > big mistake was turning on the American Navy based in Hawaii and
> > awakening a sleeping giant.
> >
> > Ted Nugent: "The Japanese turned on us and we melted them!"
> > Note: that's no hearsay. He played a concert right here in
> > Virginia Beach on a beach stage one year and I was right up front
> > in the crowd when he said that. That even shocked me. Figured the
> > city would never invite HIM back again for a concert and so
> > far....no more Ted Nugent concerts. LOL
>
> I have no doubt that you guys on the mainland have no doubt that Japan would have invaded Hawaii. You guys probably think that Japan had its sights on invading the United States and that it would have been possible for them to defend and hold on to a rock in the middle of nowhere. You get the last word in this nutty/goofy discussion.

Not during WW II. But at some point they might have eyed that tiny, undefended
rock.

Cindy Hamilton

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 8:24:42 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
> > I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of Hawaii as an independent country. You can believe that Japan would have taken over Hawaii but the reality is that Hawaii was not stolen by the Japanese. Your fantasy is totally self-serving.
>
> Given the chance, I have no doubt the Japanese would have stolen
> Hawaii. Look at history in the early years of the war...they
> invaded eastern China and treated those people like crap. At the
> time, they were just as evil as the Nazis.
>
> Hitler's big mistake was turning on his Russian allies. Japan's
> big mistake was turning on the American Navy based in Hawaii and
> awakening a sleeping giant.
>
> Ted Nugent: "The Japanese turned on us and we melted them!"
> Note: that's no hearsay. He played a concert right here in
> Virginia Beach on a beach stage one year and I was right up front
> in the crowd when he said that. That even shocked me. Figured the
> city would never invite HIM back again for a concert and so
> far....no more Ted Nugent concerts. LOL

Nugent's a dickhead. Agree about Hitler. He should not have attacked CCCP.. But I don't think that he considered that regime to be a true ally. The Soviets bled profusely during that war. Like the saying goes: 'America supplied the money, and the Soviets supplied the blood'.

dsi1 wrote:
>
> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 2:24:42 AM UTC-10, Gary wrote:
> > dsi1 wrote:
> > > I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of Hawaii as an independent country. You can believe that Japan would have taken over Hawaii but the reality is that Hawaii was not stolen by the Japanese. Your fantasy is totally self-serving.
> >
> > Given the chance, I have no doubt the Japanese would have stolen
> > Hawaii. Look at history in the early years of the war...they
> > invaded eastern China and treated those people like crap. At the
> > time, they were just as evil as the Nazis.
> >
> > Hitler's big mistake was turning on his Russian allies. Japan's
> > big mistake was turning on the American Navy based in Hawaii and
> > awakening a sleeping giant.
> >
> > Ted Nugent: "The Japanese turned on us and we melted them!"
> > Note: that's no hearsay. He played a concert right here in
> > Virginia Beach on a beach stage one year and I was right up front
> > in the crowd when he said that. That even shocked me. Figured the
> > city would never invite HIM back again for a concert and so
> > far....no more Ted Nugent concerts. LOL
>
> I have no doubt that you guys on the mainland have no doubt that Japan would have invaded Hawaii.

Dude...they *DID* invade Hawaii on December 7, 1941.
If they had destroyed their target completely, you better believe
that their next move would have been to take over the islands
that you cherish so much.

> You guys probably think that Japan had its sights on invading
> the United States and that it would have been possible for
> them to defend and hold on to a rock in the middle of nowhere.
> You get the last word in this nutty/goofy discussion.

No need to run away from this discussion. Just think about
what you said.

Don't ignore reality, dsi1. Japs already took over the other
south pacific islands. Hawaii would have been a big score for
them...the next big step to be in range of mainland USA and they,
in fact, did try to get closer in the Aleutions after they
couldn't conquer Hawaii.

Don't forget how the Japanese mistreated allied POWs either. They
really were an evil empire back in those days but war does that
to people. It's just worldwide insanity. And most of the people
killed or doing the killing were just normal people that would
prefer to live in peace.

dsi1 wrote:
>
> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 2:24:42 AM UTC-10, Gary wrote:
> > dsi1 wrote:
> > > I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of Hawaii as an independent country. You can believe that Japan would have taken over Hawaii but the reality is that Hawaii was not stolen by the Japanese. Your fantasy is totally self-serving.
> >
> > Given the chance, I have no doubt the Japanese would have stolen
> > Hawaii. Look at history in the early years of the war...they
> > invaded eastern China and treated those people like crap. At the
> > time, they were just as evil as the Nazis.
> >
> > Hitler's big mistake was turning on his Russian allies. Japan's
> > big mistake was turning on the American Navy based in Hawaii and
> > awakening a sleeping giant.
> >
> > Ted Nugent: "The Japanese turned on us and we melted them!"
> > Note: that's no hearsay. He played a concert right here in
> > Virginia Beach on a beach stage one year and I was right up front
> > in the crowd when he said that. That even shocked me. Figured the
> > city would never invite HIM back again for a concert and so
> > far....no more Ted Nugent concerts. LOL
>
> Say wait a minute, are you quite sure that Mr. Nugent used the word "Japanese?" That doesn't sound like the Ted Nugent that I know. Now you really get the last word!

Again...this wasn't hearsay. I was right there when he said that.
Rather than say "Japanese," he might have used the word, "Japs."
The meaning was quite clear.

If you're not familiar with Ted Nugent. He's very pro guns, etc.
During his concert they played very good music but inbetween each
song, Nugent would go on another pro-USA, guns, etc political
rant. That concert was very political.

Also his band was only him on guitar, a bass player and a
drummer. I was amazed at how killer his music was with only 3
band memembers. Takes a superior guitar player to do that.
Hendricks did the same and last time I saw ZZ TOP, still only 3
people and such good sound. TWo "Rip Van Winkle" looking guitar
players and a drummer.

On 2019-09-15 9:04 a.m., A Moose in Love wrote:
> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 8:24:42 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>> dsi1 wrote:
>>> I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty
>>> good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of
>>> Hawaii as an independent country. You can believe that Japan
>>> would have taken over Hawaii but the reality is that Hawaii was
>>> not stolen by the Japanese. Your fantasy is totally
>>> self-serving.
>>
>> Given the chance, I have no doubt the Japanese would have stolen
>> Hawaii. Look at history in the early years of the war...they
>> invaded eastern China and treated those people like crap. At the
>> time, they were just as evil as the Nazis.

The Japanese would have stolen Hawaii? Isn't that what the Americans did?
>>
>> Hitler's big mistake was turning on his Russian allies. Japan's big
>> mistake was turning on the American Navy based in Hawaii and
>> awakening a sleeping giant.
>>
>> Ted Nugent: "The Japanese turned on us and we melted them!" Note:
>> that's no hearsay. He played a concert right here in Virginia Beach
>> on a beach stage one year and I was right up front in the crowd
>> when he said that. That even shocked me. Figured the city would
>> never invite HIM back again for a concert and so far....no more Ted
>> Nugent concerts. LOL
>
> Nugent's a dickhead. Agree about Hitler. He should not have
> attacked CCCP. But I don't think that he considered that regime to
> be a true ally. The Soviets bled profusely during that war. Like
> the saying goes: 'America supplied the money, and the Soviets
> supplied the blood'.


I guess that is the price they paid for having enabled Hitler to take
Poland, which started the whole thing rolling.

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 8:48:16 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 2:24:42 AM UTC-10, Gary wrote:
> > > dsi1 wrote:
> > > > I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of Hawaii as an independent country. You can believe that Japan would have taken over Hawaii but the reality is that Hawaii was not stolen by the Japanese. Your fantasy is totally self-serving.
> > >
> > > Given the chance, I have no doubt the Japanese would have stolen
> > > Hawaii. Look at history in the early years of the war...they
> > > invaded eastern China and treated those people like crap. At the
> > > time, they were just as evil as the Nazis.
> > >
> > > Hitler's big mistake was turning on his Russian allies. Japan's
> > > big mistake was turning on the American Navy based in Hawaii and
> > > awakening a sleeping giant.
> > >
> > > Ted Nugent: "The Japanese turned on us and we melted them!"
> > > Note: that's no hearsay. He played a concert right here in
> > > Virginia Beach on a beach stage one year and I was right up front
> > > in the crowd when he said that. That even shocked me. Figured the
> > > city would never invite HIM back again for a concert and so
> > > far....no more Ted Nugent concerts. LOL
> >
> > I have no doubt that you guys on the mainland have no doubt that Japan would have invaded Hawaii. You guys probably think that Japan had its sights on invading the United States and that it would have been possible for them to defend and hold on to a rock in the middle of nowhere. You get the last word in this nutty/goofy discussion.
>
> Not during WW II. But at some point they might have eyed that tiny, undefended
> rock.

They sure as heck did have their sights on Hawaii right then.
Read my last post. They already had taken over all the island
stepstones to the west of Hawaii.

On 9/15/2019 9:36 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2019-09-15 9:04 a.m., A Moose in Love wrote:
>> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 8:24:42 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>>> dsi1 wrote:
>>>> I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty
>>>> good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of
>>>> Hawaii> I guess that is the price they paid for having enabled Hitler to take
> Poland, which started the whole thing rolling.
>
>
I really don't know why we need to constantly re-fight WWII.

OB Food: I'll be cooking catfish for dinner. Pan fried. Butter beans
to go with it and some sliced yellow (crookneck) squash.

Jill

jmcquown wrote:
> I really don't know why we need to constantly re-fight WWII.

So hopefully not many people will live alone talking about
their always absent SOs maybe?

>
> OB Food: I'll be cooking catfish for dinner. Pan fried. Butter beans
> to go with it and some sliced yellow (crookneck) squash

Try buying a fresh local fish someday. Taste might surprise you.

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 10:45:50 AM UTC-4, jmcquown wrote:
> On 9/15/2019 9:36 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> > On 2019-09-15 9:04 a.m., A Moose in Love wrote:
> >> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 8:24:42 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> >>> dsi1 wrote:
> >>>> I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty
> >>>> good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of
> >>>> Hawaii> I guess that is the price they paid for having enabled Hitler to take
> > Poland, which started the whole thing rolling.
> >
> >
> I really don't know why we need to constantly re-fight WWII.
>

There is much untruth that came out of that war. History is written by the victors. Also some people say that innocent civilians who were raped and murdered following the war, that it was correct to do so. So, since I'm ethnic German, I must set the record straight. I'm Canadian first, German second. There is still too much hatred for the German, it's disgusting. What did the Crown do to people? The Belgians in the Congo. The Soviets? The communist Chinese etc.

> OB Food: I'll be cooking catfish for dinner. Pan fried. Butter beans
> to go with it and some sliced yellow (crookneck) squash.
>
> Jill

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 jmcquown wrote:
>
>OB Food: I'll be cooking catfish for dinner. Pan fried. Butter beans
>to go with it and some sliced yellow (crookneck) squash.
>
>Jill

Last night's dinner was fried skinless boneless chicken breast cutlets
(just lightly seasoned with s n'p, granulated garlic, and Italian herb
blend). Also sauted Swiss chard with a bit of garlic. And the main
event, first pick of the season a five pound cabbage I turned into
coleslaw... no slaw compares to fresh picked and hand sliced. Plenty
LOs for tonight.
Only negative about chard is carefully slicing out the stem and mid
rib of each leaf, time consuming and labor intensive... but the
results are worth it. Btw, chard tastes nothing like beets... beet
tops taste nothing like beetroot either. Chard is a very mild
flavored tender green, takes on the flavor of whatever seasoning, this
time slivered sauted garlic, also added the last of the Korean sliced
eggplant. Forgot the plated pics so enjoy the LOs. Tomatoes are
still producing:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/tm90mtcy/

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 09:34:44 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>No need to run away from this discussion. Just think about
>what you said.
>
>Don't ignore reality, dsi1. Japs already took over the other
>south pacific islands. Hawaii would have been a big score for
>them...the next big step to be in range of mainland USA and they,
>in fact, did try to get closer in the Aleutions after they
>couldn't conquer Hawaii.
>
>Don't forget how the Japanese mistreated allied POWs either. They
>really were an evil empire back in those days but war does that
>to people. It's just worldwide insanity. And most of the people
>killed or doing the killing were just normal people that would
>prefer to live in peace.

They also treated civilians badly, including women and children. Put
them in concentration camps, almost starved them to death. Of course
throwing an atomic bomb on their cities is also an inconceivable
atrocity. The second biggest western atrocity after the Holocaust.

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 3:36:30 AM UTC-10, Gary wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
> >
> > On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 2:24:42 AM UTC-10, Gary wrote:
> > > dsi1 wrote:
> > > > I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of Hawaii as an independent country. You can believe that Japan would have taken over Hawaii but the reality is that Hawaii was not stolen by the Japanese. Your fantasy is totally self-serving.
> > >
> > > Given the chance, I have no doubt the Japanese would have stolen
> > > Hawaii. Look at history in the early years of the war...they
> > > invaded eastern China and treated those people like crap. At the
> > > time, they were just as evil as the Nazis.
> > >
> > > Hitler's big mistake was turning on his Russian allies. Japan's
> > > big mistake was turning on the American Navy based in Hawaii and
> > > awakening a sleeping giant.
> > >
> > > Ted Nugent: "The Japanese turned on us and we melted them!"
> > > Note: that's no hearsay. He played a concert right here in
> > > Virginia Beach on a beach stage one year and I was right up front
> > > in the crowd when he said that. That even shocked me. Figured the
> > > city would never invite HIM back again for a concert and so
> > > far....no more Ted Nugent concerts. LOL
> >
> > Say wait a minute, are you quite sure that Mr. Nugent used the word "Japanese?" That doesn't sound like the Ted Nugent that I know. Now you really get the last word!
>
> Again...this wasn't hearsay. I was right there when he said that.
> Rather than say "Japanese," he might have used the word, "Japs."
> The meaning was quite clear.
>
> If you're not familiar with Ted Nugent. He's very pro guns, etc.
> During his concert they played very good music but inbetween each
> song, Nugent would go on another pro-USA, guns, etc political
> rant. That concert was very political.
>
> Also his band was only him on guitar, a bass player and a
> drummer. I was amazed at how killer his music was with only 3
> band memembers. Takes a superior guitar player to do that.
> Hendricks did the same and last time I saw ZZ TOP, still only 3
> people and such good sound. TWo "Rip Van Winkle" looking guitar
> players and a drummer.

I'm a fan of the guitar Ted Nugent made famous - an early 60's Gibson Byrdland. The guitar's hollow body construction makes it the worst choice of guitar for the type of music he plays. At high volume levels, the body of the guitar resonates, producing low frequency feedback. Somehow, Mr. Nugent was able to make it work. How he does it is a mystery to most guitarists. My guess is that his sound guy does the magic with tightly controlled equalization.

The guitar was originally designed to play hillbilly music but is mostly known as Ted Nugent's weapon of choice back in the old days.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:15:24 -0700 (PDT), A Moose in Love
> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 10:45:50 AM UTC-4, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 9/15/2019 9:36 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> > On 2019-09-15 9:04 a.m., A Moose in Love wrote:
>> >> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 8:24:42 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>> >>> dsi1 wrote:
>> >>>> I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty
>> >>>> good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of
>> >>>> Hawaii> I guess that is the price they paid for having enabled Hitler to take
>> > Poland, which started the whole thing rolling.
>> >
>> >
>> I really don't know why we need to constantly re-fight WWII.
>>
>
>There is much untruth that came out of that war. History is written by the victors. Also some people say that innocent civilians who were raped and murdered following the war, that it was correct to do so. So, since I'm ethnic German, I must set the record straight. I'm Canadian first, German second. There is still too much hatred for the German, it's disgusting. What did the Crown do to people? The Belgians in the Congo. The Soviets? The communist Chinese etc.

The Belgians didn't organise a Holocaust or throw atomic bombs on
cities. And if by Crown you mean the English, neither did they.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 10:58:36 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>jmcquown wrote:
>> I really don't know why we need to constantly re-fight WWII.
>
>So hopefully not many people will live alone talking about
>their always absent SOs maybe?

Or their ferret?

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 3:01:07 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 09:34:44 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>
> >No need to run away from this discussion. Just think about
> >what you said.
> >
> >Don't ignore reality, dsi1. Japs already took over the other
> >south pacific islands. Hawaii would have been a big score for
> >them...the next big step to be in range of mainland USA and they,
> >in fact, did try to get closer in the Aleutions after they
> >couldn't conquer Hawaii.
> >
> >Don't forget how the Japanese mistreated allied POWs either. They
> >really were an evil empire back in those days but war does that
> >to people. It's just worldwide insanity. And most of the people
> >killed or doing the killing were just normal people that would
> >prefer to live in peace.
>
> They also treated civilians badly, including women and children. Put
> them in concentration camps, almost starved them to death. Of course
> throwing an atomic bomb on their cities is also an inconceivable
> atrocity. The second biggest western atrocity after the Holocaust.

There were atrocities committed on all sides. Note the firebombing of Tokyo. Perhaps a bigger crime than Hiroshima and Nagasaki. My aunt was in Hanover when the allies threw WP at her and citizens. She saw horrendous deaths. People jumping into a lake to put out the fires. It helped. Until they resurfaced. Then the stuff started to burn again. I don't want to just mention the allies, the axis committed their own crimes. However you always hear about the axis crimes, and very very rarely allied crimes.

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 3:04:16 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:15:24 -0700 (PDT), A Moose in Love
> > wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 10:45:50 AM UTC-4, jmcquown wrote:
> >> On 9/15/2019 9:36 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> >> > On 2019-09-15 9:04 a.m., A Moose in Love wrote:
> >> >> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 8:24:42 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> >> >>> dsi1 wrote:
> >> >>>> I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty
> >> >>>> good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of
> >> >>>> Hawaii> I guess that is the price they paid for having enabled Hitler to take
> >> > Poland, which started the whole thing rolling.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> I really don't know why we need to constantly re-fight WWII.
> >>
> >
> >There is much untruth that came out of that war. History is written by the victors. Also some people say that innocent civilians who were raped and murdered following the war, that it was correct to do so. So, since I'm ethnic German, I must set the record straight. I'm Canadian first, German second. There is still too much hatred for the German, it's disgusting. What did the Crown do to people? The Belgians in the Congo. The Soviets? The communist Chinese etc.
>
> The Belgians didn't organise a Holocaust or throw atomic bombs on
> cities. And if by Crown you mean the English, neither did they.

The Belgians? They committed serious crimes in the Congo. The Brits committed crimes with their imperialist actions. Murder is still murder whether or not you use atomics, gas or other means.

On 9/15/2019 3:04 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:15:24 -0700 (PDT), A Moose in Love
> > wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 10:45:50 AM UTC-4, jmcquown wrote:
>>> On 9/15/2019 9:36 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>> On 2019-09-15 9:04 a.m., A Moose in Love wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 8:24:42 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>>>>>> dsi1 wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty
>>>>>>> good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of
>>>>>>> Hawaii> I guess that is the price they paid for having enabled Hitler to take
>>>> Poland, which started the whole thing rolling.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I really don't know why we need to constantly re-fight WWII.
>>>
>>
>> There is much untruth that came out of that war. History is written by the victors. Also some people say that innocent civilians who were raped and murdered following the war, that it was correct to do so. So, since I'm ethnic German, I must set the record straight. I'm Canadian first, German second. There is still too much hatred for the German, it's disgusting. What did the Crown do to people? The Belgians in the Congo. The Soviets? The communist Chinese etc.
>
> The Belgians didn't organise a Holocaust or throw atomic bombs on
> cities. And if by Crown you mean the English, neither did they.
>

Nor did they prevent them
The United States detonated two nuclear weapons over the Japanese cities
of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on August 6 and 9, 1945, respectively, with
the consent of the United Kingdom, as required by the Quebec Agreement.

On 9/15/2019 3:00 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 09:34:44 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>
>> No need to run away from this discussion. Just think about
>> what you said.
>>
>> Don't ignore reality, dsi1. Japs already took over the other
>> south pacific islands. Hawaii would have been a big score for
>> them...the next big step to be in range of mainland USA and they,
>> in fact, did try to get closer in the Aleutions after they
>> couldn't conquer Hawaii.
>>
>> Don't forget how the Japanese mistreated allied POWs either. They
>> really were an evil empire back in those days but war does that
>> to people. It's just worldwide insanity. And most of the people
>> killed or doing the killing were just normal people that would
>> prefer to live in peace.
>
> They also treated civilians badly, including women and children. Put
> them in concentration camps, almost starved them to death. Of course
> throwing an atomic bomb on their cities is also an inconceivable
> atrocity. The second biggest western atrocity after the Holocaust.
>

I guess that falls under "seemed like a good idea at the time". It did
help bring and end to the war and it will be debated forever how many
lives would have been lost otherwise. We'll never know what
alternatives may have worked. Or not.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 12:07:36 -0700 (PDT), A Moose in Love
> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 3:01:07 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>
>> They also treated civilians badly, including women and children. Put
>> them in concentration camps, almost starved them to death. Of course
>> throwing an atomic bomb on their cities is also an inconceivable
>> atrocity. The second biggest western atrocity after the Holocaust.
>
>There were atrocities committed on all sides. Note the firebombing of Tokyo. Perhaps a bigger crime than Hiroshima and Nagasaki. My aunt was in Hanover when the allies threw WP at her and citizens. She saw horrendous deaths. People jumping into a lake to put out the fires. It helped. Until they resurfaced. Then the stuff started to burn again. I don't want to just mention the allies, the axis committed their own crimes. However you always hear about the axis crimes, and very very rarely allied crimes.

Let's put it into perspective:

Holocaust: 6 million dead
Hiroshima & Nagasaki: 129,000 - 226,000 dead
Tokyo bombing: 84,000 dead
Dresden bombing: 20,000 dead
Hannover bombing (88 air raids): 5,000 dead
Pearl Harbor: 2,500 dead

Most of all these casualties were civilians, except Pearl Harbor was a
military target.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 12:09:13 -0700 (PDT), A Moose in Love
> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 3:04:16 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:15:24 -0700 (PDT), A Moose in Love
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 10:45:50 AM UTC-4, jmcquown wrote:
>> >> On 9/15/2019 9:36 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> >> > On 2019-09-15 9:04 a.m., A Moose in Love wrote:
>> >> >> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 8:24:42 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>> >> >>> dsi1 wrote:
>> >> >>>> I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty
>> >> >>>> good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of
>> >> >>>> Hawaii> I guess that is the price they paid for having enabled Hitler to take
>> >> > Poland, which started the whole thing rolling.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> I really don't know why we need to constantly re-fight WWII.
>> >>
>> >
>> >There is much untruth that came out of that war. History is written by the victors. Also some people say that innocent civilians who were raped and murdered following the war, that it was correct to do so. So, since I'm ethnic German, I must set the record straight. I'm Canadian first, German second. There is still too much hatred for the German, it's disgusting. What did the Crown do to people? The Belgians in the Congo. The Soviets? The communist Chinese etc.
>>
>> The Belgians didn't organise a Holocaust or throw atomic bombs on
>> cities. And if by Crown you mean the English, neither did they.
>
>The Belgians? They committed serious crimes in the Congo. The Brits committed crimes with their imperialist actions. Murder is still murder whether or not you use atomics, gas or other means.

I didn't say they didn't commit crimes. They all did. But the worst
atrocities were committed by the Germans. By far.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 15:29:09 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 9/15/2019 3:00 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 09:34:44 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>>
>>> No need to run away from this discussion. Just think about
>>> what you said.
>>>
>>> Don't ignore reality, dsi1. Japs already took over the other
>>> south pacific islands. Hawaii would have been a big score for
>>> them...the next big step to be in range of mainland USA and they,
>>> in fact, did try to get closer in the Aleutions after they
>>> couldn't conquer Hawaii.
>>>
>>> Don't forget how the Japanese mistreated allied POWs either. They
>>> really were an evil empire back in those days but war does that
>>> to people. It's just worldwide insanity. And most of the people
>>> killed or doing the killing were just normal people that would
>>> prefer to live in peace.
>>
>> They also treated civilians badly, including women and children. Put
>> them in concentration camps, almost starved them to death. Of course
>> throwing an atomic bomb on their cities is also an inconceivable
>> atrocity. The second biggest western atrocity after the Holocaust.
>>
>
>I guess that falls under "seemed like a good idea at the time". It did
>help bring and end to the war and it will be debated forever how many
>lives would have been lost otherwise. We'll never know what
>alternatives may have worked. Or not.

Throwing atomic boms on civilians can never be the solution. It's the
problem.

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 3:31:48 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 12:09:13 -0700 (PDT), A Moose in Love
> > wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 3:04:16 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> >> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:15:24 -0700 (PDT), A Moose in Love
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 10:45:50 AM UTC-4, jmcquown wrote:
> >> >> On 9/15/2019 9:36 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> >> >> > On 2019-09-15 9:04 a.m., A Moose in Love wrote:
> >> >> >> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 8:24:42 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> >> >> >>> dsi1 wrote:
> >> >> >>>> I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty
> >> >> >>>> good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of
> >> >> >>>> Hawaii> I guess that is the price they paid for having enabled Hitler to take
> >> >> > Poland, which started the whole thing rolling.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> I really don't know why we need to constantly re-fight WWII.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >There is much untruth that came out of that war. History is written by the victors. Also some people say that innocent civilians who were raped and murdered following the war, that it was correct to do so. So, since I'm ethnic German, I must set the record straight. I'm Canadian first, German second. There is still too much hatred for the German, it's disgusting.. What did the Crown do to people? The Belgians in the Congo. The Soviets? The communist Chinese etc.
> >>
> >> The Belgians didn't organise a Holocaust or throw atomic bombs on
> >> cities. And if by Crown you mean the English, neither did they.
> >
> >The Belgians? They committed serious crimes in the Congo. The Brits committed crimes with their imperialist actions. Murder is still murder whether or not you use atomics, gas or other means.
>
> I didn't say they didn't commit crimes. They all did. But the worst
> atrocities were committed by the Germans. By far.

By far? You omit the crimes of Stalin, the crimes of the Chinese commies, the Huns, the Mongols,. Your trying to trivialize crimes committed by non Germans by saying well that's OK, but the Germans did worse. Did they? I'm not so sure. I must say though that the German state was stupid when they decided to murder Jews and other 'politicals'.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 13:34:49 -0700 (PDT), A Moose in Love
> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 3:31:48 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 12:09:13 -0700 (PDT), A Moose in Love
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 3:04:16 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:15:24 -0700 (PDT), A Moose in Love
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 10:45:50 AM UTC-4, jmcquown wrote:
>> >> >> On 9/15/2019 9:36 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> >> >> > On 2019-09-15 9:04 a.m., A Moose in Love wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 8:24:42 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>> >> >> >>> dsi1 wrote:
>> >> >> >>>> I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty
>> >> >> >>>> good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of
>> >> >> >>>> Hawaii> I guess that is the price they paid for having enabled Hitler to take
>> >> >> > Poland, which started the whole thing rolling.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> I really don't know why we need to constantly re-fight WWII.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >There is much untruth that came out of that war. History is written by the victors. Also some people say that innocent civilians who were raped and murdered following the war, that it was correct to do so. So, since I'm ethnic German, I must set the record straight. I'm Canadian first, German second. There is still too much hatred for the German, it's disgusting. What did the Crown do to people? The Belgians in the Congo. The Soviets? The communist Chinese etc.
>> >>
>> >> The Belgians didn't organise a Holocaust or throw atomic bombs on
>> >> cities. And if by Crown you mean the English, neither did they.
>> >
>> >The Belgians? They committed serious crimes in the Congo. The Brits committed crimes with their imperialist actions. Murder is still murder whether or not you use atomics, gas or other means.
>>
>> I didn't say they didn't commit crimes. They all did. But the worst
>> atrocities were committed by the Germans. By far.
>
>By far? You omit the crimes of Stalin, the crimes of the Chinese commies, the Huns, the Mongols,. Your trying to trivialize crimes committed by non Germans by saying well that's OK, but the Germans did worse. Did they? I'm not so sure. I must say though that the German state was stupid when they decided to murder Jews and other 'politicals'.

I was talking about the western world.

On 2019-09-15 4:34 p.m., A Moose in Love wrote:
> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 3:31:48 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

>> I didn't say they didn't commit crimes. They all did. But the
>> worst atrocities were committed by the Germans. By far.
>
> By far?

In western Europe.... yes... by far.

> You omit the crimes of Stalin, the crimes of the Chinese
> commies, the Huns, the Mongols,. Your trying to trivialize crimes
> committed by non Germans by saying well that's OK, but the Germans
> did worse. Did they? I'm not so sure. I must say though that the
> German state was stupid when they decided to murder Jews and other
> 'politicals'.
>


You forgot the Japanese. Americans remember them for the attack on
Pearl Harbor, but that was just a side show to their aggression across
the Pacific. They had gambled, thinking that knocking out the US Pacific
Fleet would scare them out of interfering in the bigger picture. The US
had been putting pressure on them over their activities in Mongolia
and China. We have all heard about their treatment of POWs, and they
had a special hatred for Americans. In the Chinese city of Nanking they
systematically brutalized and murdered close to 300,000 Chinese
civilians, about twice the number of Japanese deaths in the two nuclear
attacks combined.

On 9/15/2019 3:42 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 15:29:09 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 9/15/2019 3:00 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 09:34:44 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>>>
>>>> No need to run away from this discussion. Just think about
>>>> what you said.
>>>>
>>>> Don't ignore reality, dsi1. Japs already took over the other
>>>> south pacific islands. Hawaii would have been a big score for
>>>> them...the next big step to be in range of mainland USA and they,
>>>> in fact, did try to get closer in the Aleutions after they
>>>> couldn't conquer Hawaii.
>>>>
>>>> Don't forget how the Japanese mistreated allied POWs either. They
>>>> really were an evil empire back in those days but war does that
>>>> to people. It's just worldwide insanity. And most of the people
>>>> killed or doing the killing were just normal people that would
>>>> prefer to live in peace.
>>>
>>> They also treated civilians badly, including women and children. Put
>>> them in concentration camps, almost starved them to death. Of course
>>> throwing an atomic bomb on their cities is also an inconceivable
>>> atrocity. The second biggest western atrocity after the Holocaust.
>>>
>>
>> I guess that falls under "seemed like a good idea at the time". It did
>> help bring and end to the war and it will be debated forever how many
>> lives would have been lost otherwise. We'll never know what
>> alternatives may have worked. Or not.
>
> Throwing atomic boms on civilians can never be the solution. It's the
> problem.
>

Easy to say sitting in your easy chair in 2019. I have to wonder how
you'd feel in 1944 as millions were being killed.

We can look back at every war and say what was wrong and what atrocities
were committed. Would we have said the same at the time? We'll never
know.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 20:26:11 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 9/15/2019 3:42 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 15:29:09 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/15/2019 3:00 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 09:34:44 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No need to run away from this discussion. Just think about
>>>>> what you said.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't ignore reality, dsi1. Japs already took over the other
>>>>> south pacific islands. Hawaii would have been a big score for
>>>>> them...the next big step to be in range of mainland USA and they,
>>>>> in fact, did try to get closer in the Aleutions after they
>>>>> couldn't conquer Hawaii.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't forget how the Japanese mistreated allied POWs either. They
>>>>> really were an evil empire back in those days but war does that
>>>>> to people. It's just worldwide insanity. And most of the people
>>>>> killed or doing the killing were just normal people that would
>>>>> prefer to live in peace.
>>>>
>>>> They also treated civilians badly, including women and children. Put
>>>> them in concentration camps, almost starved them to death. Of course
>>>> throwing an atomic bomb on their cities is also an inconceivable
>>>> atrocity. The second biggest western atrocity after the Holocaust.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I guess that falls under "seemed like a good idea at the time". It did
>>> help bring and end to the war and it will be debated forever how many
>>> lives would have been lost otherwise. We'll never know what
>>> alternatives may have worked. Or not.
>>
>> Throwing atomic boms on civilians can never be the solution. It's the
>> problem.
>>
>Easy to say sitting in your easy chair in 2019. I have to wonder how
>you'd feel in 1944 as millions were being killed.
>
>We can look back at every war and say what was wrong and what atrocities
>were committed. Would we have said the same at the time? We'll never
>know.

A civilised person does not throw atomic bombs on a city. That is
exactly the kind of behaviour your fighting to stop. Why do it
yourself then? It's barbaric.

If it hadn't been the Americans who did that, but the Germans or the
Japanese, you'd have agreed with me.

On 9/15/2019 8:35 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 20:26:11 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 9/15/2019 3:42 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 15:29:09 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/15/2019 3:00 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 09:34:44 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> No need to run away from this discussion. Just think about
>>>>>> what you said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't ignore reality, dsi1. Japs already took over the other
>>>>>> south pacific islands. Hawaii would have been a big score for
>>>>>> them...the next big step to be in range of mainland USA and they,
>>>>>> in fact, did try to get closer in the Aleutions after they
>>>>>> couldn't conquer Hawaii.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't forget how the Japanese mistreated allied POWs either. They
>>>>>> really were an evil empire back in those days but war does that
>>>>>> to people. It's just worldwide insanity. And most of the people
>>>>>> killed or doing the killing were just normal people that would
>>>>>> prefer to live in peace.
>>>>>
>>>>> They also treated civilians badly, including women and children. Put
>>>>> them in concentration camps, almost starved them to death. Of course
>>>>> throwing an atomic bomb on their cities is also an inconceivable
>>>>> atrocity. The second biggest western atrocity after the Holocaust.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I guess that falls under "seemed like a good idea at the time". It did
>>>> help bring and end to the war and it will be debated forever how many
>>>> lives would have been lost otherwise. We'll never know what
>>>> alternatives may have worked. Or not.
>>>
>>> Throwing atomic boms on civilians can never be the solution. It's the
>>> problem.
>>>
>> Easy to say sitting in your easy chair in 2019. I have to wonder how
>> you'd feel in 1944 as millions were being killed.
>>
>> We can look back at every war and say what was wrong and what atrocities
>> were committed. Would we have said the same at the time? We'll never
>> know.
>
> A civilised person does not throw atomic bombs on a city. That is
> exactly the kind of behaviour your fighting to stop. Why do it
> yourself then? It's barbaric.
>
> If it hadn't been the Americans who did that, but the Germans or the
> Japanese, you'd have agreed with me.
>
Civilized people do go to war of any sort. If you were of age at the
time you may have thought different. The end result was that it did
stop the behavior of the Japanese. In 1944 I'd have not called them
Japanese either, they were the Japs.

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 7:35:48 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
>
> A civilised person does not throw atomic bombs on a city. That is
> exactly the kind of behaviour your fighting to stop. Why do it
> yourself then? It's barbaric.
>
> If it hadn't been the Americans who did that, but the Germans or the
> Japanese, you'd have agreed with me.
>
The Japanese were determined to fight to the last man. They were sent an
ultimatum to surrender or face the consequences. They thought the USA was
just blowing smoke but it stopped the war and even though it took thousands
of lives it saved 10's of hundreds of thousands of lives on both sides.

It's easy to say 70+ years later from the comfort of your home "that was
just awfully mean what the USA did to poor little old Japan. For shame."
You make war, be prepared to suffer the consequences.

On 2019-09-15 9:34 a.m., Gary wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>>
>> On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 2:24:42 AM UTC-10, Gary wrote:
>>> dsi1 wrote:
>>>> I'm not so sure that would have happened. Hawaii had a pretty good relationship with Japan which recognized the Kingdom of Hawaii as an independent country. You can believe that Japan would have taken over Hawaii but the reality is that Hawaii was not stolen by the Japanese. Your fantasy is totally self-serving.
>>>
>>> Given the chance, I have no doubt the Japanese would have stolen
>>> Hawaii. Look at history in the early years of the war...they
>>> invaded eastern China and treated those people like crap. At the
>>> time, they were just as evil as the Nazis.
>>>
>>> Hitler's big mistake was turning on his Russian allies. Japan's
>>> big mistake was turning on the American Navy based in Hawaii and
>>> awakening a sleeping giant.
>>>
>>> Ted Nugent: "The Japanese turned on us and we melted them!"
>>> Note: that's no hearsay. He played a concert right here in
>>> Virginia Beach on a beach stage one year and I was right up front
>>> in the crowd when he said that. That even shocked me. Figured the
>>> city would never invite HIM back again for a concert and so
>>> far....no more Ted Nugent concerts. LOL
>>
>> I have no doubt that you guys on the mainland have no doubt that Japan would have invaded Hawaii.
>
> Dude...they *DID* invade Hawaii on December 7, 1941.
> If they had destroyed their target completely, you better believe
> that their next move would have been to take over the islands
> that you cherish so much.
>
>> You guys probably think that Japan had its sights on invading
>> the United States and that it would have been possible for
>> them to defend and hold on to a rock in the middle of nowhere.
>> You get the last word in this nutty/goofy discussion.
>
> No need to run away from this discussion. Just think about
> what you said.
>
> Don't ignore reality, dsi1. Japs already took over the other
> south pacific islands. Hawaii would have been a big score for
> them...the next big step to be in range of mainland USA and they,
> in fact, did try to get closer in the Aleutions after they
> couldn't conquer Hawaii.

I don't think they actually wanted to conquer Hawaii. They were facing
economic sanctions from them US over their incursions into China. The
Japanese, seeing France, Britain and the Netherlands had colonies in
Asia and the Japanese wanted their own piece of the action. The attack
on Pearl Harbor was was a pre-emptive strike to knock the US out of the
picture as they moved out across the Pacific, taking the French, British
and Dutch colonies.


>
> Don't forget how the Japanese mistreated allied POWs either. They
> really were an evil empire back in those days but war does that
> to people. It's just worldwide insanity. And most of the people
> killed or doing the killing were just normal people that would
> prefer to live in peace.

There is no doubt that the Japanese committed atrocities in the
territories they grabbed.