On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, Ophelia wrote:
> "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 4:20:31 AM UTC-4, Ophelia wrote:
> > This morning I had a big shock! There was a report on the radio that many
> > people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't have
> > water?????
> >
> > Is that true! You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will have
> > your water turned off????
>
> That's true. Just like electricity or any other utility.
>
> ISTR that Detroit was putting water shutoffs in abeyance for the duration
> of the crisis. I doubt they're turning it back on for people who already
> had it shut off, but you never know.
>
> > I have never heard of such a thing!!!!! How on earth can those people,
> > at
> > a time like this, manage with no water?????
>
> The same way they manage at any other time with no water.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
> ====
>
> But for domestic water?
>
> UK regulations:
>
> "Can a water company cut me off? No, a water company
> cannot cut off the supply to a domestic property if you
> currently live in it.
>
> Despite this it's still important to pay any arrears
> to avoid the risk of court action."
>
> I am shocked that is not the same everywhere

Don't forget: the United States isn't a nation so much as 50 separate
nations. Each state has their own laws for most things, per our
Constitution.

Cindy Hamilton

On 2020-04-18 6:30 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 6:12:21 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 15:00:47 -0700 (PDT), "
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 3:58:40 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Not really. There are ways to get help. If the water gets shut off you
>>>> can be sure they are true deadbeats with no intention of ever paying.
>>>> It is not because they are 10 days late, it is because they are years
>>>> late and living in squalor.
>>>>
>>> I knew of a family and from a friend their water had been cut off for a few
>>> years. It seems they owed well over $600 in arrears and never attempted to
>>> do a payment plan. They just got their water daily from a service/station
>>> market they lived next door to.
>>
>> How did they shower and flush the toilet?
>
> You can flush the toilet by dumping a bucket of water in it.
>
>

A bucket of that stuff that they aren't getting any more?

On 4/18/2020 5:41 AM, Bruce wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 05:27:03 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>> On 4/17/2020 4:20 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This morning I had a big shock! There was a report on the radio that
>>>> many people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't have
>>>> water?????
>>>>
>>>> Is that true! You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will
>>>> have your water turned off????
>>>>
>>>> I have never heard of such a thing!!!!!  How on earth can those people,
>>>> at a time like this, manage with no water?????
>>>>
>>>
>>> Rare, but can happen. How many were shut off? Very few of the 320
>>> million of us. Getting water to a house does have a cost. Most are
>>> probably a year or more behind and made no attempt to resolve the
>>> situation.
>>
>> I agree with you, Ed. In this fairly short time where people have
>> lost income and might be late paying bills, I seriouly doubt
>> having
>> your water cut off is due to this situation. You will get several
>> notices to pay before they resort to a cut-off.
>
> Do you think what Ophelia saw on UK TV was fake news?
>
I'd not say fake but news people often take bland reports and
sensationalize them. I've heard nothing on the news here about water
shutoffs.

If it was a big problem some of the news outlets here would have picked
it up too. Keep in mind, in 50 states there are thousands of water
suppliers. Did they take what one or two are doing and extrapolate that
the entire country does the same? I don't know. No one here knows.

On 4/18/2020 8:16 AM, Gary wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>> Bruce wrote:
>>> How did they shower and flush the toilet?
>>
>> You can flush the toilet by dumping a bucket of water in it.
>
> Not so easy to have a bucket of water handy if your water
> is cut off. lol
>
Fill it from the neighbor's hose.

On 4/18/2020 7:37 AM, Janet wrote:

>
> Here's the figures according to a nationwide survey of US water supply
> companies.
>
> https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/ne...15-million-us-
> residents-had-water-shut-2016

> The highest shutoff rates were disproportionately in cities with
> more people living in poverty, more unemployment and more people of
> color.

> Janet UK
>

Not sure how they call that disproportionately. I would expect poverty
areas to have a higher incidence of late bill payment than the well to
do areas.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 08:14:16 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>Bruce wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 05:27:03 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>>
>> >Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 4/17/2020 4:20 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > This morning I had a big shock! There was a report on the radio that
>> >> > many people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't have
>> >> > water?????
>> >> >
>> >> > Is that true! You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will
>> >> > have your water turned off????
>> >> >
>> >> > I have never heard of such a thing!!!!!  How on earth can those people,
>> >> > at a time like this, manage with no water?????
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Rare, but can happen. How many were shut off? Very few of the 320
>> >> million of us. Getting water to a house does have a cost. Most are
>> >> probably a year or more behind and made no attempt to resolve the
>> >> situation.
>> >
>> >I agree with you, Ed. In this fairly short time where people have
>> >lost income and might be late paying bills, I seriouly doubt
>> >having
>> >your water cut off is due to this situation. You will get several
>> >notices to pay before they resort to a cut-off.
>>
>> Do you think what Ophelia saw on UK TV was fake news?
>
>No but UK laws are different from US laws.

The laws are different in most areas of the US regarding whether the
property is owned or rented... if a tenant is in a private home the
water and electricity can't be turned off until the the tenant is
taken to court for eviction and the landlord prevails... and still the
court will grant the tenant so many days (10?) to vacate before the
Sheriff arrives to remove the tenant and place all their belongs at
the curb... and the crew that the Sheriff brings is not at all
careful, they just throw stuff in the road. Typical deadbeat tenants
know this so make sure to move out with their stuff in time. The last
two tenants I had in my little rental house were evicted they didn't
own much so they moved out on the last day with hours to spare but the
courts didn't do a thing about the damages they did. And so that is
when I gave up and had the house demolished and removed... cost us
$10,000 but was worth it not having to be at the mercy of POS tenants.
We applied for a property tax decrease and were granted a $1,500 a
year decrease. So in the end it was worth it not being a landlord to
dreck. That little house is gone and the property restored as if it
were never there, we kept the detached garage and the well.

The courts don't go after the POS tenants for money damages as they
have no money and don't work, plus putting them in jail only costs the
tax payers more. There are lots of tenants who move constantly and
never pay any rent, however they find money for drugs. The last
couple weren't married but since she had a 7-8 year old child she got
public assitance plus pain pills for her back problem, and I don't
know for certain but I'm pretty sure she was prostituting herself for
drug money for both of them... there were lots of different guys
driving up and staying there for an hour or two during the night. The
child lived with his real father but would visit a couple times a
week. The woman looked in her mid twenties and decent looking...
drugs can screw anyone up... she was zonked out in bed most every day.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 08:16:45 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>> Bruce wrote:
>> > How did they shower and flush the toilet?
>>
>> You can flush the toilet by dumping a bucket of water in it.
>
>Not so easy to have a bucket of water handy if your water
>is cut off. lol

Depends where one lives, here there are occasional power outages and
our well pump doesn't work so we keep five gallon buckets of water
closeby plus we can refill from the creek in front.

On 4/18/2020 9:48 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 4/18/2020 5:41 AM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 05:27:03 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>>
>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 4/17/2020 4:20 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This morning I had a big shock!ÂÂ* There was a report on the radio that
>>>>> many people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't
>>>>> have
>>>>> water?????
>>>>>
>>>>> Is that true!ÂÂ* You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will
>>>>> have your water turned off????
>>>>>
>>>>> I have never heard of such a thing!!!!! ÂÂ* How on earth can those
>>>>> people,
>>>>> at a time like this, manage with no water?????
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rare, but can happen.Â* How many were shut off?Â* Very few of the 320
>>>> million of us.Â* Getting water to a house does have a cost.Â* Most are
>>>> probably a year or more behind and made no attempt to resolve the
>>>> situation.
>>>
>>> I agree with you, Ed. In this fairly short time where people have
>>> lost income and might be late paying bills, I seriouly doubt
>>> having
>>> your water cut off is due to this situation. You will get several
>>> notices to pay before they resort to a cut-off.
>>
>> Do you think what Ophelia saw on UK TV was fake news?
>>
> I'd not say fake but news people often take bland reports and
> sensationalize them.Â* I've heard nothing on the news here about water
> shutoffs.
>
> If it was a big problem some of the news outlets here would have picked
> it up too.Â* Keep in mind, in 50 states there are thousands of water
> suppliers.Â* Did they take what one or two are doing and extrapolate that
> the entire country does the same?Â* I don't know.Â* No one here knows.

I sure as heck haven't heard anything on the news about people having
their water shut off due to lack of payment as a result of the Covid-19
pandemic. That's not the sort of thing mainstream media would ignore.

What I'm hearing *locally* is if you can't pay your bill because you've
been laid off due to the virus they are waiving late fees and penalties.
They are not cutting off essential services such as water, electricity
or gas (where applicable). They do expect to be paid at some point.

Jill

On 4/18/2020 9:36 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 8:17:09 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>
>>> Bruce wrote:
>>>> How did they shower and flush the toilet?
>>>
>>> You can flush the toilet by dumping a bucket of water in it.
>>
>> Not so easy to have a bucket of water handy if your water
>> is cut off. lol
>
> Rainwater. Water from the source you snipped:
>
>>>>> I knew of a family and from a friend their water had been cut off for a few
>>>>> years. It seems they owed well over $600 in arrears and never attempted to
>>>>> do a payment plan. They just got their water daily from a service/station
>>>>> market they lived next door to.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
Gary's selective trimming of posts sometimes bites him in the ass.

Jill

jmcquown wrote:
>
> On 4/18/2020 9:36 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 8:17:09 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> >> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Bruce wrote:
> >>>> How did they shower and flush the toilet?
> >>>
> >>> You can flush the toilet by dumping a bucket of water in it.
> >>
> >> Not so easy to have a bucket of water handy if your water
> >> is cut off. lol
> >
> > Rainwater. Water from the source you snipped:
> >
> >>>>> I knew of a family and from a friend their water had been cut off for a few
> >>>>> years. It seems they owed well over $600 in arrears and never attempted to
> >>>>> do a payment plan. They just got their water daily from a service/station
> >>>>> market they lived next door to.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
> Gary's selective trimming of posts sometimes bites him in the ass.

You just don't ever read old posts. I never snipped rainwater.
Cindy added that after I responded.
Only mention of alt water was: "They just got their water daily
from a service/station
market they lived next door to."

Feel free to diss what I say anytime but at least get it right.
No doubt others here can look back in a thread and see your
errors.
Lose the wine during the early afternoon.
Lose the "better than thou" attitude while you're at it.

On 4/18/2020 9:37 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, Ophelia wrote:
>> "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 4:20:31 AM UTC-4, Ophelia wrote:
>>> This morning I had a big shock! There was a report on the radio that many
>>> people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't have
>>> water?????
>>>
>>> Is that true! You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will have
>>> your water turned off????
>>
>> That's true. Just like electricity or any other utility.
>>
>> ISTR that Detroit was putting water shutoffs in abeyance for the duration
>> of the crisis. I doubt they're turning it back on for people who already
>> had it shut off, but you never know.
>>
>>> I have never heard of such a thing!!!!! How on earth can those people,
>>> at
>>> a time like this, manage with no water?????
>>
>> The same way they manage at any other time with no water.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>> ====
>>
>> But for domestic water?
>>
>> UK regulations:
>>
>> "Can a water company cut me off? No, a water company
>> cannot cut off the supply to a domestic property if you
>> currently live in it.
>>
>> Despite this it's still important to pay any arrears
>> to avoid the risk of court action."
>>
>> I am shocked that is not the same everywhere
>
> Don't forget: the United States isn't a nation so much as 50 separate
> nations. Each state has their own laws for most things, per our
> Constitution.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
People in other countries don't understand. There are tons of different
water, electric and gas companies, all different depending upon where
you live in this vast country.

She heard a report on the radio. Is there an article to back it up? If
so I'd like to read it. Sounds like scaremongering but maybe that's
just me. <shrug>

Jill

On 4/18/2020 1:02 PM, Gary wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> On 4/18/2020 9:36 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 8:17:09 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>>>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruce wrote:
>>>>>> How did they shower and flush the toilet?
>>>>>
>>>>> You can flush the toilet by dumping a bucket of water in it.
>>>>
>>>> Not so easy to have a bucket of water handy if your water
>>>> is cut off. lol
>>>
>>> Rainwater. Water from the source you snipped:
>>>
>>>>>>> I knew of a family and from a friend their water had been cut off for a few
>>>>>>> years. It seems they owed well over $600 in arrears and never attempted to
>>>>>>> do a payment plan. They just got their water daily from a service/station
>>>>>>> market they lived next door to.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>> Gary's selective trimming of posts sometimes bites him in the ass.
>
> You just don't ever read old posts. I never snipped rainwater.

I never said you snipped "rainwater". I have better things to do than
spend my (useless, according to you) life reading old posts. You DO
trim excessively. Got a problem with bandwidth? Are you still using
dial-up?

> Cindy added that after I responded.
> Only mention of alt water was: "They just got their water daily
> from a service/station
> market they lived next door to."
>
*That* would be how they could flush their toilet. Hauling a bucket of
water from the service station. As long as they were hauling water from
the service station surely they could use some of it to flush the
toilet. Cindy was stating a fact. It is entirely possible to flush a
toilet by pouring a bucket of water in it.

Jill

On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 8:57:24 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> I would expect poverty
> areas to have a higher incidence of late bill payment than the well to
> do areas.
>
This really has nothing to do with the water being cut-off discussion but
25 years ago I would pay all my utility bills at a drugstore about 2 miles
from my house. It sat at the edge of the projects and I would stand in line
with the black, white, and Hispanic folks living there and paying their
utility bills as well. It was a learning experience for sure. For one,
I was the only person who paid her bills with checks. Two, I did not
know you could only pay so much on a bill and still have service. Third,
the drugstore did a bang-up business selling money orders. Money orders
were purchased for other bills and so send money south of the border.

When the utility companies started doing auto bank draft I was signing up
immediately. Standing in line behind folks buying money orders and paying
a dib and dab here and there on their bills was a sure way to kill time and
be bored to death.

jmcquown formulated on Saturday :
> I sure as heck haven't heard anything on the news about people having their
> water shut off due to lack of payment as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic.
> That's not the sort of thing mainstream media would ignore.
>
I haven't heard anything about that happening
either, funny how we have to get our news about
the USA from people that don't live here.

Fake news once again.

On 4/18/2020 3:26 PM, wrote:
> On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 8:57:24 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> I would expect poverty
>> areas to have a higher incidence of late bill payment than the well to
>> do areas.
>>
> This really has nothing to do with the water being cut-off discussion but
> 25 years ago I would pay all my utility bills at a drugstore about 2 miles
> from my house. It sat at the edge of the projects and I would stand in line
> with the black, white, and Hispanic folks living there and paying their
> utility bills as well. It was a learning experience for sure. For one,
> I was the only person who paid her bills with checks. Two, I did not
> know you could only pay so much on a bill and still have service. Third,
> the drugstore did a bang-up business selling money orders. Money orders
> were purchased for other bills and so send money south of the border.
>
> When the utility companies started doing auto bank draft I was signing up
> immediately. Standing in line behind folks buying money orders and paying
> a dib and dab here and there on their bills was a sure way to kill time and
> be bored to death.
>
The drug store was an important part of the local economy back then.
Many of those people had two problems. For some, they did not have the
$25 or so to open a checking account and if they did, many did not have
the ability of manage one.

Lower income people have a lot of disadvantages. They get paid with a
check and [ay to cash it, then they pay a charge to pay a bill, if they
have a credit card they pay the highest interest rates. If they get
trapped in the payday loan thing they pay 300% interest.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 06:37:50 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, Ophelia wrote:

>> I am shocked that is not the same everywhere
>
>Don't forget: the United States isn't a nation so much as 50 separate
>nations. Each state has their own laws for most things, per our
>Constitution.

It's basically an EU.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 13:26:48 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 4/18/2020 1:02 PM, Gary wrote:

>> You just don't ever read old posts. I never snipped rainwater.
>
>I never said you snipped "rainwater". I have better things to do than
>spend my (useless, according to you) life reading old posts. You DO
>trim excessively. Got a problem with bandwidth? Are you still using
>dial-up?
>
>> Cindy added that after I responded.
>> Only mention of alt water was: "They just got their water daily
>> from a service/station
>> market they lived next door to."
>>
>*That* would be how they could flush their toilet. Hauling a bucket of
>water from the service station. As long as they were hauling water from
>the service station surely they could use some of it to flush the
>toilet. Cindy was stating a fact. It is entirely possible to flush a
>toilet by pouring a bucket of water in it.

Sounds very impractical to me, especially for a family. You'd want to
organise synchronised pooping or you'll be going to the service
station all day.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:57:20 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 4/18/2020 7:37 AM, Janet wrote:
>
>>
>> Here's the figures according to a nationwide survey of US water supply
>> companies.
>>
>> https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/ne...15-million-us-
>> residents-had-water-shut-2016
>
>> The highest shutoff rates were disproportionately in cities with
>> more people living in poverty, more unemployment and more people of
>> color.
>
>> Janet UK
>>
>
>Not sure how they call that disproportionately. I would expect poverty
>areas to have a higher incidence of late bill payment than the well to
>do areas.

Disproportionate as in 'larger numbers than average'.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 08:14:16 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>Bruce wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 05:27:03 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>>
>> >Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 4/17/2020 4:20 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > This morning I had a big shock!Àš There was a report on the radio that
>> >> > many people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't have
>> >> > water?????
>> >> >
>> >> > Is that true!Àš You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will
>> >> > have your water turned off????
>> >> >
>> >> > I have never heard of such a thing!!!!!Àš Àš How on earth can those people,
>> >> > at a time like this, manage with no water?????
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Rare, but can happen. How many were shut off? Very few of the 320
>> >> million of us. Getting water to a house does have a cost. Most are
>> >> probably a year or more behind and made no attempt to resolve the
>> >> situation.
>> >
>> >I agree with you, Ed. In this fairly short time where people have
>> >lost income and might be late paying bills, I seriouly doubt
>> >having
>> >your water cut off is due to this situation. You will get several
>> >notices to pay before they resort to a cut-off.
>>
>> Do you think what Ophelia saw on UK TV was fake news?
>
>No but UK laws are different from US laws.

But it was about the US.

Bruce used his keyboard to write :
> You'd want to organise synchronised pooping
>
C'mon psyllium husk, don't fail me now!

On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 3:26:25 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 8:57:24 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >
> > I would expect poverty
> > areas to have a higher incidence of late bill payment than the well to
> > do areas.
> >
> This really has nothing to do with the water being cut-off discussion but
> 25 years ago I would pay all my utility bills at a drugstore about 2 miles
> from my house.

25 years ago was 1995. I paid most of my bills through direct withdrawal
from my checking account.

Cindy Hamilton

On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 3:09:18 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> The drug store was an important part of the local economy back then.
> Many of those people had two problems. For some, they did not have the
> $25 or so to open a checking account and if they did, many did not have
> the ability of manage one.
>
That's true. I find it amazing the number of people that cannot manage
money. I'm talking about small amounts of money and checking accounts.
For some, a book of checks meant they could write them until they ran out
never mind there was no money in their account.
>
> Lower income people have a lot of disadvantages. They get paid with a
> check and [ay to cash it, then they pay a charge to pay a bill, if they
> have a credit card they pay the highest interest rates. If they get
> trapped in the payday loan thing they pay 300% interest.
>
No all, but so many of those disadvantages of their own making. Many are
high school dropouts, no job skills other than menial labor with a passel
of children. Children they don't encourage to stay in school and try to
do better than mom and dad.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> On 4/18/2020 3:26 PM, wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 8:57:24 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>
> >> I would expect poverty
> >> areas to have a higher incidence of late bill payment than the well to
> >> do areas.
> >>
> > This really has nothing to do with the water being cut-off discussion but
> > 25 years ago I would pay all my utility bills at a drugstore about 2 miles
> > from my house. It sat at the edge of the projects and I would stand in line
> > with the black, white, and Hispanic folks living there and paying their
> > utility bills as well. It was a learning experience for sure. For one,
> > I was the only person who paid her bills with checks. Two, I did not
> > know you could only pay so much on a bill and still have service. Third,
> > the drugstore did a bang-up business selling money orders. Money orders
> > were purchased for other bills and so send money south of the border.
> >
> > When the utility companies started doing auto bank draft I was signing up
> > immediately. Standing in line behind folks buying money orders and paying
> > a dib and dab here and there on their bills was a sure way to kill time and
> > be bored to death.
> >
> The drug store was an important part of the local economy back then.
> Many of those people had two problems. For some, they did not have the
> $25 or so to open a checking account and if they did, many did not have
> the ability of manage one.
>
> Lower income people have a lot of disadvantages. They get paid with a
> check and [ay to cash it, then they pay a charge to pay a bill, if they
> have a credit card they pay the highest interest rates. If they get
> trapped in the payday loan thing they pay 300% interest.


Some are also afraid of opening bank accounts for fear of being "found", e.g. they owe past - due child support, are being sought for overdue bills/loans, or they are just paranoid...also a dearth of banks in most poor nabes, the currency exchange is just down the corner....

We require our clients at our workforce agency to have a Financial Supports Coach, first thing is pulling a credit report, then establishing a payment plan/budget if needed, and if they've no bank account we work with a local non - profit credit union to open one (a secured one if they wish to open a line of credit, after one year the CU will match their initial $300.00 account, giving them a credit line of $600.00 or more). After sorting that all out, and once the clients attain employment, there often is a rise in their credit scores. Many have no credit score at all, do not know how to manage debt, etc...she can help negotiate with lenders, etc...

These Financial Support services are also available to us staff, some have found good rates on car loans, mortgages, etc....

We also have a certified financial planner (was a CPA for a major automaker) on staff, he assists with investment planning, retirement planning, etc....again this is for both clients and staff, very helpful to us all...

There is a DIRE need for better financial literacy in the US, even many young - or not young! - professionals have not a clue...

--
Best
Greg

On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 3:48:42 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 3:26:25 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> >
> > This really has nothing to do with the water being cut-off discussion but
> > 25 years ago I would pay all my utility bills at a drugstore about 2 miles
> > from my house.
>
> 25 years ago was 1995. I paid most of my bills through direct withdrawal
> from my checking account.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
Yup. That's when I signed up. Maybe they had offered it and I was unaware,
but as soon as I knew I could this I was onboard! Big convenience and a big
money saver on postage as well.

Creme Fraiche wrote:

> jmcquown formulated on Saturday :
> > I sure as heck haven't heard anything on the news about people having their
> > water shut off due to lack of payment as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic.
> > That's not the sort of thing mainstream media would ignore.
> >
> I haven't heard anything about that happening
> either, funny how we have to get our news about
> the USA from people that don't live here.
>
> Fake news once again.


Isn't it...and of course what they present here is *always* negative - always, always direly mis - informed...I've seen many such on other Usenet groups and forums...

Like "Pamela's" imbecile troll thread about "smart cars"...believe it or not poorer folks here do not live like the Joads, they drive okay cars, have cellphones, air conditioning, big TV's, health care and other resources. Many own their own homes, even...

Years ago there was a snotty Dutch poster ("Sjoerd") on rec.travel.air. HATED the US and everything it did. I sailed into him after he stated that Central/Europe had had it better when they were communist, "Oh, in East Germany people had closer and deeper friendships...in Romania and Poland women were a large percentage of the workforce...all the basics of life in those places were GUARANTEED..." He even had nothing but good to say about his six - month business sojourn in North Korea, "the people all have solidarity, they all seem happy..." [!!!]

The final straw was when he called the Marshall Plan and NATO "evil", that these organizations were only installed as a tool of American imperialism....e.g. there was no moral diff at all between NATO/EU and Warsaw Pact/COMECON, or between Western free - market capitalism and Soviet centrally - planned economies...

My reply was, "Uh, let's see...you were lucky to be born in the now - rich and prosperous Netherlands...you have a C - suite job with Philips, which allows you to fly your queer ass all around the world First Class on KLM, you have a lovely canal - side townhouse in Amsterdam, which you share with your *** male partner to whom you are married. If you had been born in Minsk or Sofia or East Berlin, how do you think your quality of life would now be!? Certainly not like the posh life you lead now. And part of the reason that you have it all is because NL was/is allied with the US and Western Europe and their values, and as a result it's much nicer even today in 2002 to live in Holland or Norway or Spain than it is in Bulgaria or Romania or Belarus..."

He got all huffy, claiming "I'll NEVER visit the USA!", I replied, "We don't need you here in the states, you can take your perverted self and your dirty florins to Thailand or someplace to buy your little boy prostitutes..."

LOL, he flounced away, never to return...

--
Best
Greg

On 4/18/2020 4:40 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:57:20 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 4/18/2020 7:37 AM, Janet wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Here's the figures according to a nationwide survey of US water supply
>>> companies.
>>>
>>> https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/ne...15-million-us-
>>> residents-had-water-shut-2016
>>
>>> The highest shutoff rates were disproportionately in cities with
>>> more people living in poverty, more unemployment and more people of
>>> color.
>>
>>> Janet UK
>>>
>>
>> Not sure how they call that disproportionately. I would expect poverty
>> areas to have a higher incidence of late bill payment than the well to
>> do areas.
>
> Disproportionate as in 'larger numbers than average'.
>

Like I said. No shit. Poor people have a larger portion of late bills.
I wonder how they figured that out.

Bruce wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 06:37:50 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
>> On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, Ophelia wrote:
>
>>> I am shocked that is not the same everywhere
>>
>> Don't forget: the United States isn't a nation so much as 50 separate
>> nations. Each state has their own laws for most things, per our
>> Constitution.
>
> It's basically an EU.
>

Yes. It's "united States". And none of the states therein allow
****ing assholes like you to participate. You must first become a
citizen, and live in one of one of the states, if you want to
participate.

Otherwise you can just **** off, and go back to holland.

Got it now Gruce?

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:25:55 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 4/18/2020 4:40 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:57:20 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/18/2020 7:37 AM, Janet wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here's the figures according to a nationwide survey of US water supply
>>>> companies.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/ne...15-million-us-
>>>> residents-had-water-shut-2016
>>>
>>>> The highest shutoff rates were disproportionately in cities with
>>>> more people living in poverty, more unemployment and more people of
>>>> color.
>>>
>>>> Janet UK
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure how they call that disproportionately. I would expect poverty
>>> areas to have a higher incidence of late bill payment than the well to
>>> do areas.
>>
>> Disproportionate as in 'larger numbers than average'.
>>
>
>Like I said. No shit. Poor people have a larger portion of late bills.
> I wonder how they figured that out.

They stated the obvious and you protest?

On 2020-04-18 2:50 p.m., wrote:
> On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 3:09:18 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> The drug store was an important part of the local economy back then.
>> Many of those people had two problems. For some, they did not have the
>> $25 or so to open a checking account and if they did, many did not have
>> the ability of manage one.
>>
> That's true. I find it amazing the number of people that cannot manage
> money. I'm talking about small amounts of money and checking accounts.
> For some, a book of checks meant they could write them until they ran out
> never mind there was no money in their account.
>>
>> Lower income people have a lot of disadvantages. They get paid with a
>> check and [ay to cash it, then they pay a charge to pay a bill, if they
>> have a credit card they pay the highest interest rates. If they get
>> trapped in the payday loan thing they pay 300% interest.
>>
> No all, but so many of those disadvantages of their own making. Many are
> high school dropouts, no job skills other than menial labor with a passel
> of children. Children they don't encourage to stay in school and try to
> do better than mom and dad.
>
So it's always the fault of poor people not to be successful and wealthy.
It was ever thus!

On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 5:02:53 PM UTC-5, graham wrote:
>
> So it's always the fault of poor people not to be successful and wealthy.
> It was ever thus!
>
No, but many times it is.

No matter what opportunities are presented to some people we will ALWAYS
have the poor, poorly educated, menial jobholders. Some are perfectly
happy to live in the projects, generations in one apartment, and if their
kids graduate from school fine and dandy and if they don't, that's fine
and dandy as well.

graham wrote:

> On 2020-04-18 2:50 p.m., wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 3:09:18 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>
> >> The drug store was an important part of the local economy back then.
> >> Many of those people had two problems. For some, they did not have the
> >> $25 or so to open a checking account and if they did, many did not have
> >> the ability of manage one.
> >>
> > That's true. I find it amazing the number of people that cannot manage
> > money. I'm talking about small amounts of money and checking accounts.
> > For some, a book of checks meant they could write them until they ran out
> > never mind there was no money in their account.
> >>
> >> Lower income people have a lot of disadvantages. They get paid with a
> >> check and [ay to cash it, then they pay a charge to pay a bill, if they
> >> have a credit card they pay the highest interest rates. If they get
> >> trapped in the payday loan thing they pay 300% interest.
> >>
> > No all, but so many of those disadvantages of their own making. Many are
> > high school dropouts, no job skills other than menial labor with a passel
> > of children. Children they don't encourage to stay in school and try to
> > do better than mom and dad.
> >
> So it's always the fault of poor people not to be successful and wealthy.
> It was ever thus!


Poverty can be a result of circumstance, more often than not today it is also a result of poor personal choices...

To improve their lives, those "in need" should look to emulate their betters...!!!

--
Best
Greg

On 4/18/2020 5:39 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:25:55 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 4/18/2020 4:40 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:57:20 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/18/2020 7:37 AM, Janet wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's the figures according to a nationwide survey of US water supply
>>>>> companies.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/ne...15-million-us-
>>>>> residents-had-water-shut-2016
>>>>
>>>>> The highest shutoff rates were disproportionately in cities with
>>>>> more people living in poverty, more unemployment and more people of
>>>>> color.
>>>>
>>>>> Janet UK
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not sure how they call that disproportionately. I would expect poverty
>>>> areas to have a higher incidence of late bill payment than the well to
>>>> do areas.
>>>
>>> Disproportionate as in 'larger numbers than average'.
>>>
>>
>> Like I said. No shit. Poor people have a larger portion of late bills.
>> I wonder how they figured that out.
>
> They stated the obvious and you protest?
>
They make a big deal and undertake a study to come up with the obvious
that everyone has known for the past century. The PC crowd does not
have the balls to state "as expected"

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 19:40:32 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 4/18/2020 5:39 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:25:55 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/18/2020 4:40 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:57:20 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/18/2020 7:37 AM, Janet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's the figures according to a nationwide survey of US water supply
>>>>>> companies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/ne...15-million-us-
>>>>>> residents-had-water-shut-2016
>>>>>
>>>>>> The highest shutoff rates were disproportionately in cities with
>>>>>> more people living in poverty, more unemployment and more people of
>>>>>> color.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Janet UK
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure how they call that disproportionately. I would expect poverty
>>>>> areas to have a higher incidence of late bill payment than the well to
>>>>> do areas.
>>>>
>>>> Disproportionate as in 'larger numbers than average'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Like I said. No shit. Poor people have a larger portion of late bills.
>>> I wonder how they figured that out.
>>
>> They stated the obvious and you protest?
>>
>They make a big deal and undertake a study to come up with the obvious
>that everyone has known for the past century. The PC crowd does not
>have the balls to state "as expected"

Yes, that's how the PC crowd rolls.

On 4/18/2020 6:02 PM, graham wrote:
> On 2020-04-18 2:50 p.m., wrote:
>> On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 3:09:18 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>> The drug store was an important part of the local economy back then.
>>> Many of those people had two problems.Â* For some, they did not have the
>>> $25 or so to open a checking account and if they did, many did not have
>>> the ability of manage one.
>>>
>> That's true. I find it amazing the number of people that cannot manage
>> money.Â* I'm talking about small amounts of money and checking accounts.
>> For some, a book of checks meant they could write them until they ran out
>> never mind there was no money in their account.
>>>
>>> Lower income people have a lot of disadvantages.Â* They get paid with a
>>> check and [ay to cash it, then they pay a charge to pay a bill, if they
>>> have a credit card they pay the highest interest rates.Â* If they get
>>> trapped in the payday loan thing they pay 300% interest.
>>>
>> No all, but so many of those disadvantages of their own making.Â* Many are
>> high school dropouts, no job skills other than menial labor with a passel
>> of children.Â* Children they don't encourage to stay in school and try to
>> do better than mom and dad.
>>
> So it's always the fault of poor people not to be successful and wealthy.
> It was ever thus!

Many reasons, some genetic. Mental illness in various forms and lack of
ability. Some are addicted to drugs or alcohol and are content living
that way.Not everyone wants help.

Take the panhandler you see on the street corner with the "will work for
food" sign. The ones that don't show up when offered work. The ones
given food by well meaning people that toss it away because what they
really want is money for alcohol. There was one that stood by the exit
to a supermarket in town. After a few weeks the highway department was
doing some work and they found a lot of discarded food.

Yes, Twas ever thus

Bruce wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:25:55 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 4/18/2020 4:40 PM, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:57:20 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/18/2020 7:37 AM, Janet wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's the figures according to a nationwide survey of US water supply
>>>>> companies.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/ne...15-million-us-
>>>>> residents-had-water-shut-2016
>>>>
>>>>> The highest shutoff rates were disproportionately in cities with
>>>>> more people living in poverty, more unemployment and more people of
>>>>> color.
>>>>
>>>>> Janet UK
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not sure how they call that disproportionately. I would expect poverty
>>>> areas to have a higher incidence of late bill payment than the well to
>>>> do areas.
>>>
>>> Disproportionate as in 'larger numbers than average'.
>>>
>>
>> Like I said. No shit. Poor people have a larger portion of late bills.
>> I wonder how they figured that out.
>
> They stated the obvious and you protest?
>

He just said it to get you to sniff his ass, Fruce. It ALWAYS works.

On 4/18/2020 6:21 PM, wrote:
> On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 5:02:53 PM UTC-5, graham wrote:
>>
>> So it's always the fault of poor people not to be successful and wealthy.
>> It was ever thus!
>>
> No, but many times it is.
>
> No matter what opportunities are presented to some people we will ALWAYS
> have the poor, poorly educated, menial jobholders. Some are perfectly
> happy to live in the projects, generations in one apartment, and if their
> kids graduate from school fine and dandy and if they don't, that's fine
> and dandy as well.
>
This discussion reminds me of a short-lived PBS show that re-created
living conditions in a Victorian era slum:

The Doss House:

https://www.pbssocal.org/programs/vi...ng-doss-house/

It was yet another "reality" social experiment akin to '1900 House' and
'Frontier House'. Fun stuff. They were lucky if they had running water
or even a bucket. They did strive to do better, though.

Jill

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> On 4/18/2020 6:02 PM, graham wrote:
> > On 2020-04-18 2:50 p.m., wrote:
> >> On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 3:09:18 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The drug store was an important part of the local economy back then.
> >>> Many of those people had two problems.Â* For some, they did not have the
> >>> $25 or so to open a checking account and if they did, many did not have
> >>> the ability of manage one.
> >>>
> >> That's true. I find it amazing the number of people that cannot manage
> >> money.Â* I'm talking about small amounts of money and checking accounts.
> >> For some, a book of checks meant they could write them until they ran out
> >> never mind there was no money in their account.
> >>>
> >>> Lower income people have a lot of disadvantages.Â* They get paid with a
> >>> check and [ay to cash it, then they pay a charge to pay a bill, if they
> >>> have a credit card they pay the highest interest rates.Â* If they get
> >>> trapped in the payday loan thing they pay 300% interest.
> >>>
> >> No all, but so many of those disadvantages of their own making.Â* Many are
> >> high school dropouts, no job skills other than menial labor with a passel
> >> of children.Â* Children they don't encourage to stay in school and try to
> >> do better than mom and dad.
> >>
> > So it's always the fault of poor people not to be successful and wealthy.
> > It was ever thus!
>
> Many reasons, some genetic. Mental illness in various forms and lack of
> ability. Some are addicted to drugs or alcohol and are content living
> that way.Not everyone wants help.


When I worked in homeless services I was astounded that a goodly percentage of the hard - core, e.g. street homeless, not only abhor any outreach/assistance, but prefer life on the street. After all, if you have an apartment, there is a certain amount of responsibility in having to follow basic rules, etc....and some do not want the "responsiblity" of even having a rent - free place (utilities included)...

A few years ago there was a small homeless tent city here in Chicago's Uptown. The city and social service agencies made a concerted effort to house over a hundred of them in their own private apartments/living facilities. A year later about half of them had been evicted for various criminal infractions, drugs, disruptive behavior, having "apartments of filth", having pets in no - pet dwellings, barbequing inside, etc....some of these I case - managed, they would deliberately defy basic living rules, and despite our intervention, they ****ed themselves out of their decent private apartments....


> Take the panhandler you see on the street corner with the "will work for
> food" sign. The ones that don't show up when offered work. The ones
> given food by well meaning people that toss it away because what they
> really want is money for alcohol. There was one that stood by the exit
> to a supermarket in town. After a few weeks the highway department was
> doing some work and they found a lot of discarded food.


Many *say* they want to work, but they never have any intention of actually *going* to work and sustaining stable employment. After all, it is spelled "work" for a reason, no...???

Especially with the "dependent" class, they'd sail in demanding "GIVE ME A JOB!" Sorry, I'm not a miracle worker, I cannot undo all of your poor past life decisions - and it is *you* that has to eventually get the job...and you are not going to start out with an easy and well - paying gig in a nice place, even us motivated folk had to start at the bottom...


> Yes, Twas ever thus


Could not have said it better meself...

I helped many poor immigrants and refugees in attaining employment, they would take any - and often multiple - crummy jobs to get ahead, they kept their nose to the grindstone and never complained; they got ahead - and their kids excel academically and will become professionals. This is something that many USAin's would do well to emulate - even the white middle - class ones...

--
Best
Greg

On 4/18/2020 7:54 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 4/18/2020 6:02 PM, graham wrote:
>> On 2020-04-18 2:50 p.m., wrote:
>>> On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 3:09:18 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The drug store was an important part of the local economy back then.
>>>> Many of those people had two problems.Â* For some, they did not have the
>>>> $25 or so to open a checking account and if they did, many did not have
>>>> the ability of manage one.
>>>>
>>> That's true. I find it amazing the number of people that cannot manage
>>> money.Â* I'm talking about small amounts of money and checking accounts.
>>> For some, a book of checks meant they could write them until they ran
>>> out
>>> never mind there was no money in their account.
>>>>
>>>> Lower income people have a lot of disadvantages.Â* They get paid with a
>>>> check and [ay to cash it, then they pay a charge to pay a bill, if they
>>>> have a credit card they pay the highest interest rates.Â* If they get
>>>> trapped in the payday loan thing they pay 300% interest.
>>>>
>>> No all, but so many of those disadvantages of their own making.Â* Many
>>> are
>>> high school dropouts, no job skills other than menial labor with a
>>> passel
>>> of children.Â* Children they don't encourage to stay in school and try to
>>> do better than mom and dad.
>>>
>> So it's always the fault of poor people not to be successful and wealthy.
>> It was ever thus!
>
> Many reasons, some genetic.Â* Mental illness in various forms and lack of
> ability.Â* Some are addicted to drugs or alcohol and are content living
> that way.Not everyone wants help.
>
> Take the panhandler you see on the street corner with the "will work for
> food" sign.Â* The ones that don't show up when offered work.Â* The ones
> given food by well meaning people that toss it away because what they
> really want is money for alcohol.Â* There was one that stood by the exit
> to a supermarket in town.Â* After a few weeks the highway department was
> doing some work and they found a lot of discarded food.
>
> Yes, Twas ever thus

Someone will bash me for bringing this up but I'll do it anyway. Years
back when I was living in west TN I stopped at a gas station near my
apartment. There was a liquor store right next door. A homeless man
approached me while I was pumping gas and asked if I had any spare
change. He said he was hungry.

I don't hand out money to strangers. And I'm not very trusting of
people who hang out in the vicinity of liquor stores. However, there
was a Burger King right across the street. I said if you're hungry
let's go over there and I'll buy you a meal. He accepted and met me in
the parking lot.

He stood outside reading items off the drive-thru menu. He was too
ashamed of being grubby to go inside. I asked what he'd like to order.
BK had a deal at the time on the then *new* Black Angus Burger & fries.
He hesitantly asked, "Could I have that?" Of course! And yes, he ate
it. It was a nice day so we sat outside and talked while he ate. His
name was Steve. He said he was a Vietnam vet. He rambled a bit; he was
likely mentally ill and quite possibly a drug addict and alcoholic. But
at least I know on that day, he ate a hot meal.

Jill

On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 6:54:33 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Take the panhandler you see on the street corner with the "will work for
> food" sign. The ones that don't show up when offered work. The ones
> given food by well meaning people that toss it away because what they
> really want is money for alcohol. There was one that stood by the exit
> to a supermarket in town. After a few weeks the highway department was
> doing some work and they found a lot of discarded food.
>
> Yes, Twas ever thus
>
Here the 'homeless' and panhandlers sell a newspaper called "The Contributor."
It gives the plight, always slanted of course, of the poor old 'indigent.'
The paper was 50¢ and the seller kept 25¢ but about two years ago the price
was raised to $1 per copy with the seller keeping 50¢. Selling this paper is
supposed to help them until they get back on their feet. For some, it's a
full-time job and actual full-time employment is not what they're wanting.

There was a guy just at the edge of the property at the Kroger I shop at.
He had a little fold-up chair and had this spot for THREE (3) YEARS. Never
once did I see him that his hand was not in a bag of some sort of chips.
Never.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 21:44:42 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:


>Someone will bash me for bringing this up but I'll do it anyway. Years
>back when I was living in west TN I stopped at a gas station near my
>apartment. There was a liquor store right next door. A homeless man
>approached me while I was pumping gas and asked if I had any spare
>change. He said he was hungry.
>
>I don't hand out money to strangers. And I'm not very trusting of
>people who hang out in the vicinity of liquor stores. However, there
>was a Burger King right across the street. I said if you're hungry
>let's go over there and I'll buy you a meal. He accepted and met me in
>the parking lot.
>
>He stood outside reading items off the drive-thru menu. He was too
>ashamed of being grubby to go inside. I asked what he'd like to order.
>BK had a deal at the time on the then *new* Black Angus Burger & fries.
>He hesitantly asked, "Could I have that?" Of course! And yes, he ate
>it. It was a nice day so we sat outside and talked while he ate. His
>name was Steve. He said he was a Vietnam vet. He rambled a bit; he was
>likely mentally ill and quite possibly a drug addict and alcoholic. But
>at least I know on that day, he ate a hot meal.

That was very nice of you, Jill.

Doris