On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 12:54:00 PM UTC-10, jmcquown wrote:
> On 6/18/2020 5:58 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 2:03:05 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 4:37:05 PM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >
> >> It's not really my problem. Yoose folks on the mainland can keep your vestiges of the old South that yoose so desperately cling to.
> >
> > You're right. Here we sit, plaintively singing Dixie, wishing that
> > brown people still knew their place.
> >
> >> Us guys on this rock have our own problems to tend to. I was just trying to get people to see what it looks like from the other guy's point of view. Oh well, we can't all be Gregory Peck.
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b05CMl4hwcc
> >
> > David, Gregory Peck was an actor. He spoke other people's words in
> > a convincing manner.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
> Since dsi1 loves youtube videos, here's one: Aunt Jemima was a "model"
> named Lillian Richards [Williams] who made a career out of portraying
> Aunt Jemima starting in 1925:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WeXkHyBhKo
>
> Jill

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn if they ditch aunt J or not. I don't buy no rebel pancake mix. I stick with the Union/Yankee pancake brand - Krusteaz.

On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 6:56:02 PM UTC-4, jmcquown wrote:
> On 6/18/2020 11:09 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >
> > I also have Uncle Ben's rice in my pantry.Â* He makes good stuff and
> > should be proud of it.
> >
> I have a box of Uncle Ben's rice in my pantry, too. Wonder if I should
> set it aside in case it becomes a museum piece one day?
>
> Jill

My grandmother had a bunch of, um, "pickaninny" housewares from the
1920s or 1930s. Plastic salt shakers and the like. I wonder what
ever became of them. Probably ended up in a landfill somewhere,
although I know there's a small collector's market for them.

Cindy Hamilton

On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 9:50:55 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 12:54:00 PM UTC-10, jmcquown wrote:
> > On 6/18/2020 5:58 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > > On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 2:03:05 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 4:37:05 PM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > >
> > >> It's not really my problem. Yoose folks on the mainland can keep your vestiges of the old South that yoose so desperately cling to.
> > >
> > > You're right. Here we sit, plaintively singing Dixie, wishing that
> > > brown people still knew their place.
> > >
> > >> Us guys on this rock have our own problems to tend to. I was just trying to get people to see what it looks like from the other guy's point of view. Oh well, we can't all be Gregory Peck.
> > >>
> > >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b05CMl4hwcc
> > >
> > > David, Gregory Peck was an actor. He spoke other people's words in
> > > a convincing manner.
> > >
> > > Cindy Hamilton
> > >
> > Since dsi1 loves youtube videos, here's one: Aunt Jemima was a "model"
> > named Lillian Richards [Williams] who made a career out of portraying
> > Aunt Jemima starting in 1925:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WeXkHyBhKo
> >
> > Jill
>
> Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn if they ditch aunt J or not. I don't buy no rebel pancake mix. I stick with the Union/Yankee pancake brand - Krusteaz.

If we made pancakes, we'd make them from scratch. We always have
the very simple ingredients on hand:

Flour
Eggs
Fat (oil or melted butter)
Baking powder
Sugar
Salt
Milk

Same thing with waffles. Same ingredients, different proportions.

Cindy Hamilton

jmcquown wrote:
>
> On 6/18/2020 11:09 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >
> > I also have Uncle Ben's rice in my pantry. He makes good stuff and
> > should be proud of it.
> >
> I have a box of Uncle Ben's rice in my pantry, too. Wonder if I should
> set it aside in case it becomes a museum piece one day?

You might want to do that if those disappear from the market.
You would be surprised at what collector's will pay for
old, long gone items in good shape.

On 6/20/2020 7:26 AM, Gary wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> On 6/18/2020 11:09 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>> I also have Uncle Ben's rice in my pantry. He makes good stuff and
>>> should be proud of it.
>>>
>> I have a box of Uncle Ben's rice in my pantry, too. Wonder if I should
>> set it aside in case it becomes a museum piece one day?
>
> You might want to do that if those disappear from the market.
> You would be surprised at what collector's will pay for
> old, long gone items in good shape.
>
The Pink Palace museum in Memphis contains a replica of the first
self-serve US grocery store (Piggly Wiggly). It has contains shelves
full of items from the early 20th century in pristine condition. It's
entirely possible Uncle Ben's rice with his iconic image could wind up
in a museum some day.

Jill

On 6/18/2020 4:00 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 6/18/2020 1:28 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
>> writes:
>>> On 6/17/2020 6:59 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>> On 6/17/2020 1:18 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>> On 2020-06-17 1:01 p.m., dsi1 wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:27:07 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Is nothing sacred?AÂ* After 130 years an old friend is gone.AÂ* We
>>>>>>> grew
>>>>>>> up with Aunt Jemima for breakfast but she is going away.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some have considered the familiar figure racists but to me, she was
>>>>>>> just a familiar face, a nice lady that just wanted you to have a
>>>>>>> good breakfast.AÂ* IMO, the world would be a better place if everyone
>>>>>>> had an Aunt like her.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The call her "aunt" but she's not really your auntie. She'd be your
>>>>>> mammy - a low-paid hired help that raised you from a baby. That
>>>>>> concept is a pretty weird one in this day and age. Perhaps they can
>>>>>> change her into a nice white lady. Then she'd be like a real aunt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure. It could be a white lady. That would be the cue for people to
>>>>> complain that black people are under represented in public images. In
>>>>> Canada the low paid nanny that is making pancakes for breakfast for
>>>>> little kids would be more likely to be Filipino.
>>>>
>>>> Thing is, Aunt Jemima is syrup and boxed pancake mix.AÂ* A marketing
>>>> concept which underwent a lot of changes through the 131 year history,
>>>> according to the article in the New York Times:
>>>>
>>>> "In magazine advertisements throughout much of the 20th century, the
>>>> character was shown serving white families. Aunt Jemima went through
>>>> several redesigns over the decades. In 1989, Quaker Oats substantially
>>>> revised the characteraÂ* s look, adding pearl earrings and a lace
>>>> collar."
>>>>
>>>> I do not understand why her drawn image is suddenly a horrific
>>>> insult to
>>>> anyone.AÂ* It's *marketing*.AÂ* Same thing with Uncle Ben, who apparently
>>>> lent his image and his name to sell his own brand of rice.AÂ* He was a
>>>> real person who made money as a result.AÂ* Would he be happy to see his
>>>> face taken off those boxes of rice?
>>>>
>>>> Jill
>>>
>>> There is nothing derogatory with the name Jemima and seems to be used by
>>> people of other countries too.Â* The original drawings did depict her as
>>> kitchen help, not so much the updated.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jemima
>>>
>>> Taking Uncle Ben off the rice is an insult to him.Â* He was a hard
>>> working farmer and achieved a bit of recognition for his skills.
>>
>> The use of "Aunt Jemima" as a derogatory slur is very much alive.
>>
>> <https://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-reassigned-allegedly-calling-black-woman-juror-aunt/story?id=68824246>
>>
>>
>> gotta say it's entertaining seeing a bunch of old white people
>> outraged about a black lady not being used to sell syrup any more
>>

Her family does not agree with you

https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/a...gacy-vanishing

"This is an injustice for me and my family. This is part of my history,
sir," Larnell Evans Sr. told me. "The racism they talk about, using
images from slavery, that comes from the other side €” white people. This
company profits off images of our slavery. And their answer is to erase
my great-grandmother's history. A black female. €¦ It hurts."

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 6:56:02 PM UTC-4, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 6/18/2020 11:09 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>> I also have Uncle Ben's rice in my pantry.Â* He makes good stuff and
>>> should be proud of it.
>>>
>> I have a box of Uncle Ben's rice in my pantry, too. Wonder if I should
>> set it aside in case it becomes a museum piece one day?
>>
>> Jill
>
> My grandmother had a bunch of, um, "pickaninny" housewares from the
> 1920s or 1930s. Plastic salt shakers and the like. I wonder what
> ever became of them. Probably ended up in a landfill somewhere,
> although I know there's a small collector's market for them.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

Many years ago, a neighbor had an old decorative pot, It could be
for flowers, or to put small items of junk in. The main part looked
like an old wringer washing machine. The upper part was a very dark
skinned old mammy operating the machine, but she was screaming and
had one of her tits caught in the wringer mechanism.

On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 10:35:21 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 6/20/2020 7:26 AM, Gary wrote:
>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>> On 6/18/2020 11:09 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I also have Uncle Ben's rice in my pantry. He makes good stuff and
>>>> should be proud of it.
>>>>
>>> I have a box of Uncle Ben's rice in my pantry, too. Wonder if I should
>>> set it aside in case it becomes a museum piece one day?
>>
>> You might want to do that if those disappear from the market.
>> You would be surprised at what collector's will pay for
>> old, long gone items in good shape.
>>
>The Pink Palace museum in Memphis contains a replica of the first
>self-serve US grocery store (Piggly Wiggly). It has contains shelves
>full of items from the early 20th century in pristine condition. It's
>entirely possible Uncle Ben's rice with his iconic image could wind up
>in a museum some day.

But will the Eternally Offended accept that?

On 2020 Jun 17, , Bruce wrote
(in >):

> A mouse and an elephant are crossing a bridge. The mouse says to the
> elephant: "We're making the whole bridge shake."

Nice metaphor. Im stealing it.

leo aka Don Leo aka Uncle Leo

Bruce wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 10:35:21 -0400, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/20/2020 7:26 AM, Gary wrote:
>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 6/18/2020 11:09 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I also have Uncle Ben's rice in my pantry.Àš He makes good stuff and
>>>>> should be proud of it.
>>>>>
>>>> I have a box of Uncle Ben's rice in my pantry, too. Wonder if I should
>>>> set it aside in case it becomes a museum piece one day?
>>>
>>> You might want to do that if those disappear from the market.
>>> You would be surprised at what collector's will pay for
>>> old, long gone items in good shape.
>>>
>> The Pink Palace museum in Memphis contains a replica of the first
>> self-serve US grocery store (Piggly Wiggly). It has contains shelves
>> full of items from the early 20th century in pristine condition. It's
>> entirely possible Uncle Ben's rice with his iconic image could wind up
>> in a museum some day.
>
> But will the Eternally Offended accept that?
>

No druce, they'll hang out at the Parthenon in nashville.

Try it ... on a good day you could sniff 500 asses per hour.

On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 4:40:09 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 6/18/2020 4:00 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 6/18/2020 1:28 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
> >> writes:
> >>> On 6/17/2020 6:59 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> >>>> On 6/17/2020 1:18 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> >>>>> On 2020-06-17 1:01 p.m., dsi1 wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:27:07 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Is nothing sacred?AÂ* After 130 years an old friend is gone.AÂ* We
> >>>>>>> grew
> >>>>>>> up with Aunt Jemima for breakfast but she is going away.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Some have considered the familiar figure racists but to me, she was
> >>>>>>> just a familiar face, a nice lady that just wanted you to have a
> >>>>>>> good breakfast.AÂ* IMO, the world would be a better place if everyone
> >>>>>>> had an Aunt like her.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The call her "aunt" but she's not really your auntie. She'd be your
> >>>>>> mammy - a low-paid hired help that raised you from a baby. That
> >>>>>> concept is a pretty weird one in this day and age. Perhaps they can
> >>>>>> change her into a nice white lady. Then she'd be like a real aunt.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sure. It could be a white lady. That would be the cue for people to
> >>>>> complain that black people are under represented in public images. In
> >>>>> Canada the low paid nanny that is making pancakes for breakfast for
> >>>>> little kids would be more likely to be Filipino.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thing is, Aunt Jemima is syrup and boxed pancake mix.AÂ* A marketing
> >>>> concept which underwent a lot of changes through the 131 year history,
> >>>> according to the article in the New York Times:
> >>>>
> >>>> "In magazine advertisements throughout much of the 20th century, the
> >>>> character was shown serving white families. Aunt Jemima went through
> >>>> several redesigns over the decades. In 1989, Quaker Oats substantially
> >>>> revised the characteraÂ* s look, adding pearl earrings and a lace
> >>>> collar."
> >>>>
> >>>> I do not understand why her drawn image is suddenly a horrific
> >>>> insult to
> >>>> anyone.AÂ* It's *marketing*.AÂ* Same thing with Uncle Ben, who apparently
> >>>> lent his image and his name to sell his own brand of rice.AÂ* He was a
> >>>> real person who made money as a result.AÂ* Would he be happy to see his
> >>>> face taken off those boxes of rice?
> >>>>
> >>>> Jill
> >>>
> >>> There is nothing derogatory with the name Jemima and seems to be used by
> >>> people of other countries too.Â* The original drawings did depict her as
> >>> kitchen help, not so much the updated.
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jemima
> >>>
> >>> Taking Uncle Ben off the rice is an insult to him.Â* He was a hard
> >>> working farmer and achieved a bit of recognition for his skills.
> >>
> >> The use of "Aunt Jemima" as a derogatory slur is very much alive.
> >>
> >> <https://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-reassigned-allegedly-calling-black-woman-juror-aunt/story?id=68824246>
> >>
> >>
> >> gotta say it's entertaining seeing a bunch of old white people
> >> outraged about a black lady not being used to sell syrup any more
> >>
>
> Her family does not agree with you
>
> https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/a...gacy-vanishing
>
> "This is an injustice for me and my family. This is part of my history,
> sir," Larnell Evans Sr. told me. "The racism they talk about, using
> images from slavery, that comes from the other side €” white people. This
> company profits off images of our slavery. And their answer is to erase
> my great-grandmother's history. A black female. €¦ It hurts."

Sure, why not use a reminder of a horrible past to sell product? What's the harm? Let's change the pancake box mascot to Cousin Anne and sell product aimed at holocaust survivors and neo-nazis. Yeah, that might make some profits for the company. In the end, profits are the only thing that matter.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> Is nothing sacred? After 130 years an old friend is gone. We grew
> up with Aunt Jemima for breakfast but she is going away.
>
> Some have considered the familiar figure racists but to me, she was
> just a familiar face, a nice lady that just wanted you to have a good
> breakfast. IMO, the world would be a better place if everyone had an
> Aunt like her.

WOW. I didnt see that one coming. Lets all remove a product from 1890
because it pictured a black woman (who was paid for her work in a time
where that lasted during your life but not after).

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> On 6/17/2020 12:54 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> > On 2020-06-17 12:27 p.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > > Is nothing sacred?Â* After 130 years an old friend is gone.Â* We
> > > grew up with Aunt Jemima for breakfast but she is going away.
> > >
> > > Some have considered the familiar figure racists but to me, she
> > > was just a familiar face, a nice lady that just wanted you to
> > > have a good breakfast.Â* IMO, the world would be a better place
> > > if everyone had an Aunt like her.
> >
> >
> > Never underestimate the need for some people to feel the need to be
> > offended.Â* Granted, the old image of Aunt Jemima did have that
> > antebellum air about it, but it had been updated years ago and
> > simply showed a black woman. I agree that she was just a familiar
> > face. Companies will be afraid to use black people as their
> > spokespeople for fear that someone will feel a need to whine
> > about, and then they will complain that the are not represented in
> > commercial placement.
> >
>
> I see commercials all the time that have token minorities in them.
> It will be more racist if they replace her with a white woman.
>
> Is Uncle Ben next?

Uncle Ben is already mentioned. Apparently mostly for the name
association. It's wierd. Black people calling out any product that
seems black affiliated?

On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 "cshenk" wrote:
>Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> Is nothing sacred? After 130 years an old friend is gone. We grew
>> up with Aunt Jemima for breakfast but she is going away.
>>
>> Some have considered the familiar figure racists but to me, she was
>> just a familiar face, a nice lady that just wanted you to have a good
>> breakfast. IMO, the world would be a better place if everyone had an
>> Aunt like her.
>
>WOW. I didnt see that one coming. Lets all remove a product from 1890
>because it pictured a black woman (who was paid for her work in a time
>where that lasted during your life but not after).

Breakfast will never be the same, every morning I looked forward to
nursing on Aunt Jemimas big brown bosoms, her long thick nipples were
delish.

dsi1 wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 10:27:07 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 6/17/2020 3:29 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 7:31:48 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski
> > > wrote:
> > >> On 6/17/2020 12:54 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> > >>> On 2020-06-17 12:27 p.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > >>>> Is nothing sacred?Â* After 130 years an old friend is gone.Â* We
> > grew up >>>> with Aunt Jemima for breakfast but she is going away.
> > > > > >
> > >>>> Some have considered the familiar figure racists but to me,
> > she was >>>> just a familiar face, a nice lady that just wanted you
> > to have a good >>>> breakfast.Â* IMO, the world would be a better
> > place if everyone had an >>>> Aunt like her.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >>> Never underestimate the need for some people to feel the need
> > to be >>> offended.Â* Granted, the old image of Aunt Jemima did have
> > that >>> antebellum air about it, but it had been updated years ago
> > and simply >>> showed a black woman. I agree that she was just a
> > familiar face. >>> Companies will be afraid to use black people as
> > their spokespeople for >>> fear that someone will feel a need to
> > whine about, and then they will >>> complain that the are not
> > represented in commercial placement.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >> I see commercials all the time that have token minorities in
> > them. It >> will be more racist if they replace her with a white
> > woman.
> > > >
> > >> Is Uncle Ben next?
> > >
> > > You better believe it! They want to get rid of Mrs. Butterworth
> > > too. I'm thinking that might not be possible since the bottle is
> > > the product. I never thought Mrs. B was a black lady anyway. Her
> > > name should be your first clue about that matter. I'd be
> > > agreeable to changing the name to Mrs. Doubtfire and altering the
> > > bottle a little. In fact, that would be awesome!
> > >
> >
> > Looks like Uncle Ben is going away too. The name comes from a rice
> > farmer known as Uncle Ben, back in 1943. Seems like they are
> > honoring the guy, not disparaging him.
> >
> > Is there a real Uncle Ben?
> > According to Mars, Uncle Ben was an African-American rice grower
> > known for the quality of his rice. Gordon L. Harwell, an
> > entrepreneur who had supplied rice to the armed forces in World War
> > II, chose the name Uncle Ben's as a means to expand his marketing
> > efforts to the general public.
>
> That's fine, if the idea of your mom being forced to work for slave
> wages cleaning up other people's houses and raising other people's
> kids appeals to you. It's great if you think putting a grinning
> picture of your mom or aunt on a box of product to sell to
> generations of people that called her "mammy" because economic and
> societal conditions forced her to raise them instead of raising you
> is a good thing.

Aunti and Uncle. These are terms of RESPECT and are irregardless of
race and ALWAYS WERE in the USA.

Don't even try to pretend Hawaii has no predjudice. Of the 2 places I
have lived, Hawaii and Texas topped the charts on that. Hawaii is 2%
black and most of that is military stationed there.

dsi1 wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:27:07 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > Is nothing sacred? After 130 years an old friend is gone. We grew
> > up with Aunt Jemima for breakfast but she is going away.
> >
> > Some have considered the familiar figure racists but to me, she was
> > just a familiar face, a nice lady that just wanted you to have a
> > good breakfast. IMO, the world would be a better place if everyone
> > had an Aunt like her.
>
> The call her "aunt" but she's not really your auntie. She'd be your
> mammy - a low-paid hired help that raised you from a baby. That
> concept is a pretty weird one in this day and age. Perhaps they can
> change her into a nice white lady. Then she'd be like a real aunt.

How twisted can you get?

dsi1 wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 7:17:45 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
> > On 2020-06-17 1:01 p.m., dsi1 wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:27:07 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski
> > > wrote:
> > >> Is nothing sacred? After 130 years an old friend is gone. We
> > grew >> up with Aunt Jemima for breakfast but she is going away.
> > >>
> > >> Some have considered the familiar figure racists but to me, she
> > was >> just a familiar face, a nice lady that just wanted you to
> > have a >> good breakfast. IMO, the world would be a better place
> > if everyone >> had an Aunt like her.
> > >
> > > The call her "aunt" but she's not really your auntie. She'd be
> > > your mammy - a low-paid hired help that raised you from a baby.
> > > That concept is a pretty weird one in this day and age. Perhaps
> > > they can change her into a nice white lady. Then she'd be like a
> > > real aunt.
> > >
> >
> > Sure. It could be a white lady. That would be the cue for people to
> > complain that black people are under represented in public images.
> > In Canada the low paid nanny that is making pancakes for breakfast
> > for little kids would be more likely to be Filipino.
>
> That would be true if you were down South too, but not too far South
> - Filipino or Mexican. When I was a kid, we had an old Japanese lady
> come down to watch us brats and do some house cleaning. She never
> made us nothing. I suppose that her main job was to make sure we
> didn't burn the house down.

What the hell do you know about the south? NOTHING.

On 6/20/2020 7:25 PM, cshenk wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> On 6/17/2020 12:54 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> On 2020-06-17 12:27 p.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> Is nothing sacred?Â* After 130 years an old friend is gone.Â* We
>>>> grew up with Aunt Jemima for breakfast but she is going away.
>>>>
>>>> Some have considered the familiar figure racists but to me, she
>>>> was just a familiar face, a nice lady that just wanted you to
>>>> have a good breakfast.Â* IMO, the world would be a better place
>>>> if everyone had an Aunt like her.
>>>
>>>
>>> Never underestimate the need for some people to feel the need to be
>>> offended.Â* Granted, the old image of Aunt Jemima did have that
>>> antebellum air about it, but it had been updated years ago and
>>> simply showed a black woman. I agree that she was just a familiar
>>> face. Companies will be afraid to use black people as their
>>> spokespeople for fear that someone will feel a need to whine
>>> about, and then they will complain that the are not represented in
>>> commercial placement.
>>>
>>
>> I see commercials all the time that have token minorities in them.
>> It will be more racist if they replace her with a white woman.
>>
>> Is Uncle Ben next?
>
> Uncle Ben is already mentioned. Apparently mostly for the name
> association. It's wierd. Black people calling out any product that
> seems black affiliated?
>
Old Ben could grow rice better than anyone else. He should be
celebrated, not cast aside. Blacks should be proud of what he achieved.

On 2020-06-20 7:25 p.m., cshenk wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> On 6/17/2020 12:54 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> On 2020-06-17 12:27 p.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> Is nothing sacred?Â* After 130 years an old friend is gone.Â* We
>>>> grew up with Aunt Jemima for breakfast but she is going away.
>>>>
>>>> Some have considered the familiar figure racists but to me, she
>>>> was just a familiar face, a nice lady that just wanted you to
>>>> have a good breakfast.Â* IMO, the world would be a better place
>>>> if everyone had an Aunt like her.
>>>
>>>
>>> Never underestimate the need for some people to feel the need to be
>>> offended.Â* Granted, the old image of Aunt Jemima did have that
>>> antebellum air about it, but it had been updated years ago and
>>> simply showed a black woman. I agree that she was just a familiar
>>> face. Companies will be afraid to use black people as their
>>> spokespeople for fear that someone will feel a need to whine
>>> about, and then they will complain that the are not represented in
>>> commercial placement.
>>>
>>
>> I see commercials all the time that have token minorities in them.
>> It will be more racist if they replace her with a white woman.
>>
>> Is Uncle Ben next?
>
> Uncle Ben is already mentioned. Apparently mostly for the name
> association. It's wierd. Black people calling out any product that
> seems black affiliated?
>

Imagine the nerve of companies in the racist USA using the image of a
coloured person on their product. One might expect the racists to
boycott the products for using darkies instead of white folk.

On 6/20/2020 6:45 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 4:40:09 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 6/18/2020 4:00 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 6/18/2020 1:28 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
>>>> writes:
>>>>> On 6/17/2020 6:59 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/17/2020 1:18 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2020-06-17 1:01 p.m., dsi1 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:27:07 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Is nothing sacred?AÂ* After 130 years an old friend is gone.AÂ* We
>>>>>>>>> grew
>>>>>>>>> up with Aunt Jemima for breakfast but she is going away.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some have considered the familiar figure racists but to me, she was
>>>>>>>>> just a familiar face, a nice lady that just wanted you to have a
>>>>>>>>> good breakfast.AÂ* IMO, the world would be a better place if everyone
>>>>>>>>> had an Aunt like her.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The call her "aunt" but she's not really your auntie. She'd be your
>>>>>>>> mammy - a low-paid hired help that raised you from a baby. That
>>>>>>>> concept is a pretty weird one in this day and age. Perhaps they can
>>>>>>>> change her into a nice white lady. Then she'd be like a real aunt.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sure. It could be a white lady. That would be the cue for people to
>>>>>>> complain that black people are under represented in public images. In
>>>>>>> Canada the low paid nanny that is making pancakes for breakfast for
>>>>>>> little kids would be more likely to be Filipino.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thing is, Aunt Jemima is syrup and boxed pancake mix.AÂ* A marketing
>>>>>> concept which underwent a lot of changes through the 131 year history,
>>>>>> according to the article in the New York Times:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "In magazine advertisements throughout much of the 20th century, the
>>>>>> character was shown serving white families. Aunt Jemima went through
>>>>>> several redesigns over the decades. In 1989, Quaker Oats substantially
>>>>>> revised the characteraÂ* s look, adding pearl earrings and a lace
>>>>>> collar."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do not understand why her drawn image is suddenly a horrific
>>>>>> insult to
>>>>>> anyone.AÂ* It's *marketing*.AÂ* Same thing with Uncle Ben, who apparently
>>>>>> lent his image and his name to sell his own brand of rice.AÂ* He was a
>>>>>> real person who made money as a result.AÂ* Would he be happy to see his
>>>>>> face taken off those boxes of rice?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jill
>>>>>
>>>>> There is nothing derogatory with the name Jemima and seems to be used by
>>>>> people of other countries too.Â* The original drawings did depict her as
>>>>> kitchen help, not so much the updated.
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jemima
>>>>>
>>>>> Taking Uncle Ben off the rice is an insult to him.Â* He was a hard
>>>>> working farmer and achieved a bit of recognition for his skills.
>>>>
>>>> The use of "Aunt Jemima" as a derogatory slur is very much alive.
>>>>
>>>> <https://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-reassigned-allegedly-calling-black-woman-juror-aunt/story?id=68824246>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> gotta say it's entertaining seeing a bunch of old white people
>>>> outraged about a black lady not being used to sell syrup any more
>>>>
>>
>> Her family does not agree with you
>>
>> https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/a...gacy-vanishing
>>
>> "This is an injustice for me and my family. This is part of my history,
>> sir," Larnell Evans Sr. told me. "The racism they talk about, using
>> images from slavery, that comes from the other side €” white people. This
>> company profits off images of our slavery. And their answer is to erase
>> my great-grandmother's history. A black female. €¦ It hurts."
>
> Sure, why not use a reminder of a horrible past to sell product? What's the harm? Let's change the pancake box mascot to Cousin Anne and sell product aimed at holocaust survivors and neo-nazis. Yeah, that might make some profits for the company. In the end, profits are the only thing that matter.
>
You choice if you want to be a victim.

If the family is not offended why should I be? If you want to be
reminded of a bad past that is your choice. I grew up with many black
people over many years. None of the ones I broke bread with ever
complained about Aunt J and it made her family proud. In some respects
Aunt J reminds me of my own grandmother. Comforting is what I see.

Hawaiians got nothing to brag about. Maybe you still have a couple
hidden away working for you? You should be ashamed of your ancestors.
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Artic...in-Hawaii.aspx

The Organic Act, bringing US law to bear in the newly-annexed Territory
of Hawaii took effect 111 years ago--June 14, 1900. As a result, US
laws prohibiting contracts of indentured servitude replaced the 1850
Masters and Servants Act which had been in effect under the Hawaiian
Kingdom and Hawaii Republic. Tens of thousands of plantation laborers
were freed from contract slavery by the Organic Act.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

dsi1 wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 4:40:09 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> On 6/18/2020 4:00 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>> On 6/18/2020 1:28 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
> >>>> writes:
> >>>>> On 6/17/2020 6:59 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> >>>>>> On 6/17/2020 1:18 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 2020-06-17 1:01 p.m., dsi1 wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:27:07 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Is nothing sacred?AÂ* After 130 years an old friend is gone..AÂ* We
> >>>>>>>>> grew
> >>>>>>>>> up with Aunt Jemima for breakfast but she is going away.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Some have considered the familiar figure racists but to me, she was
> >>>>>>>>> just a familiar face, a nice lady that just wanted you to have a
> >>>>>>>>> good breakfast.AÂ* IMO, the world would be a better place if everyone
> >>>>>>>>> had an Aunt like her.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The call her "aunt" but she's not really your auntie. She'd be your
> >>>>>>>> mammy - a low-paid hired help that raised you from a baby. That
> >>>>>>>> concept is a pretty weird one in this day and age. Perhaps they can
> >>>>>>>> change her into a nice white lady. Then she'd be like a real aunt.

Sheldon Martin wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 "cshenk" wrote:
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>> Is nothing sacred? After 130 years an old friend is gone. We grew
>>> up with Aunt Jemima for breakfast but she is going away.
>>>
>>> Some have considered the familiar figure racists but to me, she was
>>> just a familiar face, a nice lady that just wanted you to have a good
>>> breakfast. IMO, the world would be a better place if everyone had an
>>> Aunt like her.
>>
>> WOW. I didnt see that one coming. Lets all remove a product from 1890
>> because it pictured a black woman (who was paid for her work in a time
>> where that lasted during your life but not after).
>
> Breakfast will never be the same, every morning I looked forward to
> nursing on Aunt Jemimas big brown bosoms, her long thick nipples were
> delish.
>

Popeye, yoose could buy yooself a pcket pussy.

https://www.fasttech.com/search?pussy%20sex%20toys

On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 2:37:05 PM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 6/20/2020 6:45 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 4:40:09 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> On 6/18/2020 4:00 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>> On 6/18/2020 1:28 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
> >>>> writes:
> >>>>> On 6/17/2020 6:59 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> >>>>>> On 6/17/2020 1:18 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 2020-06-17 1:01 p.m., dsi1 wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:27:07 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Is nothing sacred?AÂ* After 130 years an old friend is gone..AÂ* We
> >>>>>>>>> grew
> >>>>>>>>> up with Aunt Jemima for breakfast but she is going away.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Some have considered the familiar figure racists but to me, she was
> >>>>>>>>> just a familiar face, a nice lady that just wanted you to have a
> >>>>>>>>> good breakfast.AÂ* IMO, the world would be a better place if everyone
> >>>>>>>>> had an Aunt like her.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The call her "aunt" but she's not really your auntie. She'd be your
> >>>>>>>> mammy - a low-paid hired help that raised you from a baby. That
> >>>>>>>> concept is a pretty weird one in this day and age. Perhaps they can
> >>>>>>>> change her into a nice white lady. Then she'd be like a real aunt.

On 6/20/2020 9:44 PM, dsi1 wrote:

>>>>
>>>> https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/a...gacy-vanishing
>>>>
>>>> "This is an injustice for me and my family. This is part of my history,
>>>> sir," Larnell Evans Sr. told me. "The racism they talk about, using
>>>> images from slavery, that comes from the other side €” white people. This
>>>> company profits off images of our slavery. And their answer is to erase
>>>> my great-grandmother's history. A black female. €¦ It hurts."
>>>
>>> Sure, why not use a reminder of a horrible past to sell product? What's the harm? Let's change the pancake box mascot to Cousin Anne and sell product aimed at holocaust survivors and neo-nazis. Yeah, that might make some profits for the company. In the end, profits are the only thing that matter.
>>>
>> You choice if you want to be a victim.
>>
>> If the family is not offended why should I be? If you want to be
>> reminded of a bad past that is your choice. I grew up with many black
>> people over many years. None of the ones I broke bread with ever
>> complained about Aunt J and it made her family proud. In some respects
>> Aunt J reminds me of my own grandmother. Comforting is what I see.
>>
>> Hawaiians got nothing to brag about. Maybe you still have a couple
>> hidden away working for you? You should be ashamed of your ancestors.
>> http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Artic...in-Hawaii.aspx
>>
>> The Organic Act, bringing US law to bear in the newly-annexed Territory
>> of Hawaii took effect 111 years ago--June 14, 1900. As a result, US
>> laws prohibiting contracts of indentured servitude replaced the 1850
>> Masters and Servants Act which had been in effect under the Hawaiian
>> Kingdom and Hawaii Republic. Tens of thousands of plantation laborers
>> were freed from contract slavery by the Organic Act.
>
> Cut me a break man. I have often said that we're a rock that is populated by the descendants of slaves. Have you comprehended anything that I've written? That's what makes us different from yoose guys. Most of the locals here are descendants of people that were shipped in to work the fields as cheap, disposable, labor. It is for this reason that social justice/equality is a big deal on this rock. We're not interested in excluding anybody from society - that was your people's goal, not ours.
>
> It's fairly obvious that you have no idea what the deal was with the Organic act of 1900. Your link was pretty much a fail. Better luck next time - if there is a next time.
>

You said "your people". Wrong. My people were working hard in Poland
and did not show up here until about 1910. My people had nothing to do
with slavery like YOUR people did.

Unlike your people, my people had no slaves and I have no guilt, nor
should I. Meantime, enjoy you plantation and cheap labor.

On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 22:28:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 6/20/2020 9:44 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
>> Cut me a break man. I have often said that we're a rock that is populated by the descendants of slaves. Have you comprehended anything that I've written? That's what makes us different from yoose guys. Most of the locals here are descendants of people that were shipped in to work the fields as cheap, disposable, labor. It is for this reason that social justice/equality is a big deal on this rock. We're not interested in excluding anybody from society - that was your people's goal, not ours.
>>
>> It's fairly obvious that you have no idea what the deal was with the Organic act of 1900. Your link was pretty much a fail. Better luck next time - if there is a next time.
>>
>
>You said "your people". Wrong. My people were working hard in Poland
>and did not show up here until about 1910. My people had nothing to do
>with slavery like YOUR people did.
>
>Unlike your people, my people had no slaves and I have no guilt, nor
>should I. Meantime, enjoy you plantation and cheap labor.

My ancestors also didn't have slaves now that I think about it. I
think I'm going to throw a party.

Who was it who said to a black person: "If it wasn't for slavery,
you'd be sitting in front of a hut made of cow shit, starving to
death"?

On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 4:28:06 PM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 6/20/2020 9:44 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
> >>>>
> >>>> https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/a...gacy-vanishing
> >>>>
> >>>> "This is an injustice for me and my family. This is part of my history,
> >>>> sir," Larnell Evans Sr. told me. "The racism they talk about, using
> >>>> images from slavery, that comes from the other side €” white people. This
> >>>> company profits off images of our slavery. And their answer is to erase
> >>>> my great-grandmother's history. A black female. €¦ It hurts."
> >>>
> >>> Sure, why not use a reminder of a horrible past to sell product? What's the harm? Let's change the pancake box mascot to Cousin Anne and sell product aimed at holocaust survivors and neo-nazis. Yeah, that might make some profits for the company. In the end, profits are the only thing that matter.
> >>>
> >> You choice if you want to be a victim.
> >>
> >> If the family is not offended why should I be? If you want to be
> >> reminded of a bad past that is your choice. I grew up with many black
> >> people over many years. None of the ones I broke bread with ever
> >> complained about Aunt J and it made her family proud. In some respects
> >> Aunt J reminds me of my own grandmother. Comforting is what I see.
> >>
> >> Hawaiians got nothing to brag about. Maybe you still have a couple
> >> hidden away working for you? You should be ashamed of your ancestors.
> >> http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Artic...in-Hawaii.aspx
> >>
> >> The Organic Act, bringing US law to bear in the newly-annexed Territory
> >> of Hawaii took effect 111 years ago--June 14, 1900. As a result, US
> >> laws prohibiting contracts of indentured servitude replaced the 1850
> >> Masters and Servants Act which had been in effect under the Hawaiian
> >> Kingdom and Hawaii Republic. Tens of thousands of plantation laborers
> >> were freed from contract slavery by the Organic Act.
> >
> > Cut me a break man. I have often said that we're a rock that is populated by the descendants of slaves. Have you comprehended anything that I've written? That's what makes us different from yoose guys. Most of the locals here are descendants of people that were shipped in to work the fields as cheap, disposable, labor. It is for this reason that social justice/equality is a big deal on this rock. We're not interested in excluding anybody from society - that was your people's goal, not ours.
> >
> > It's fairly obvious that you have no idea what the deal was with the Organic act of 1900. Your link was pretty much a fail. Better luck next time - if there is a next time.
> >
>
> You said "your people". Wrong. My people were working hard in Poland
> and did not show up here until about 1910. My people had nothing to do
> with slavery like YOUR people did.
>
> Unlike your people, my people had no slaves and I have no guilt, nor
> should I. Meantime, enjoy you plantation and cheap labor.

You just don't get it. My grandparents were brought in to work the fields an do various jobs that didn't suit the white folks. We didn't own any slaves, we were the slaves. At least your family weren't slaves in the US. Well, my guess is that your family was dirt poor when they got off the boat, as was most immigrants and they worked like slaves.

My wife's family did own slaves. Well, at least, one bitch and her kid. The family still owns the bill of sale. Does she feel guilty about it? A little. Should she? Not at all.

As it goes Hawaii never had slaves - unless you call indentured servitude or working for low, low, wages slavery. In modern times it would be called "slavery", back then it was business as usual.

Your lame article (which you did not understand) was about the legal action to get rid of the last vestiges of the Hawaiian Monarchy and start anew. As such, all contracts were deemed null and void in the newly created legal landscape of the United States. The idea that its purpose was to free the slaves of Hawaii is rather startling.

Your best bet is to try to lay your guilt trip on people that at one time had ancestors that owned slaves. My guess is that it'll fall on deaf ears. God knows, it certainly won't work on mine.

On 6/20/2020 11:00 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 4:28:06 PM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 6/20/2020 9:44 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/a...gacy-vanishing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "This is an injustice for me and my family. This is part of my history,
>>>>>> sir," Larnell Evans Sr. told me. "The racism they talk about, using
>>>>>> images from slavery, that comes from the other side €” white people. This
>>>>>> company profits off images of our slavery. And their answer is to erase
>>>>>> my great-grandmother's history. A black female. €¦ It hurts."
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure, why not use a reminder of a horrible past to sell product? What's the harm? Let's change the pancake box mascot to Cousin Anne and sell product aimed at holocaust survivors and neo-nazis. Yeah, that might make some profits for the company. In the end, profits are the only thing that matter.
>>>>>
>>>> You choice if you want to be a victim.
>>>>
>>>> If the family is not offended why should I be? If you want to be
>>>> reminded of a bad past that is your choice. I grew up with many black
>>>> people over many years. None of the ones I broke bread with ever
>>>> complained about Aunt J and it made her family proud. In some respects
>>>> Aunt J reminds me of my own grandmother. Comforting is what I see.
>>>>
>>>> Hawaiians got nothing to brag about. Maybe you still have a couple
>>>> hidden away working for you? You should be ashamed of your ancestors.
>>>> http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Artic...in-Hawaii.aspx
>>>>
>>>> The Organic Act, bringing US law to bear in the newly-annexed Territory
>>>> of Hawaii took effect 111 years ago--June 14, 1900. As a result, US
>>>> laws prohibiting contracts of indentured servitude replaced the 1850
>>>> Masters and Servants Act which had been in effect under the Hawaiian
>>>> Kingdom and Hawaii Republic. Tens of thousands of plantation laborers
>>>> were freed from contract slavery by the Organic Act.
>>>
>>> Cut me a break man. I have often said that we're a rock that is populated by the descendants of slaves. Have you comprehended anything that I've written? That's what makes us different from yoose guys. Most of the locals here are descendants of people that were shipped in to work the fields as cheap, disposable, labor. It is for this reason that social justice/equality is a big deal on this rock. We're not interested in excluding anybody from society - that was your people's goal, not ours.
>>>
>>> It's fairly obvious that you have no idea what the deal was with the Organic act of 1900. Your link was pretty much a fail. Better luck next time - if there is a next time.
>>>
>>
>> You said "your people". Wrong. My people were working hard in Poland
>> and did not show up here until about 1910. My people had nothing to do
>> with slavery like YOUR people did.
>>
>> Unlike your people, my people had no slaves and I have no guilt, nor
>> should I. Meantime, enjoy you plantation and cheap labor.
>
> You just don't get it. My grandparents were brought in to work the fields an do various jobs that didn't suit the white folks. We didn't own any slaves, we were the slaves. At least your family weren't slaves in the US. Well, my guess is that your family was dirt poor when they got off the boat, as was most immigrants and they worked like slaves.
>
> My wife's family did own slaves. Well, at least, one bitch and her kid. The family still owns the bill of sale. Does she feel guilty about it? A little. Should she? Not at all.
>
> As it goes Hawaii never had slaves - unless you call indentured servitude or working for low, low, wages slavery. In modern times it would be called "slavery", back then it was business as usual.
>
> Your lame article (which you did not understand) was about the legal action to get rid of the last vestiges of the Hawaiian Monarchy and start anew. As such, all contracts were deemed null and void in the newly created legal landscape of the United States. The idea that its purpose was to free the slaves of Hawaii is rather startling.
>
> Your best bet is to try to lay your guilt trip on people that at one time had ancestors that owned slaves. My guess is that it'll fall on deaf ears. God knows, it certainly won't work on mine.
>
>
>
Did the Hawaiians give them healthcare and a 401k plan too? Sounds like
it was a shitty life working for your ancestors. Yeah, I bet those
contracts were like the modern day UAW.
https://www.nvlchawaii.org/sugar-cane-production
Sounds like a great career. Profit above everything.

On June 21, 1850, Hawaii enacted the Masters and Servants Act, which
legalized apprenticeships, indentured service and the mass importation
of workers from other countries. It also established a harsh contract
labor system that made it impossible for workers to unionize or strike,
creating almost slave-like conditions.

On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 20:00:54 -0700 (PDT), dsi1
> wrote:

>On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 4:28:06 PM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>> You said "your people". Wrong. My people were working hard in Poland
>> and did not show up here until about 1910. My people had nothing to do
>> with slavery like YOUR people did.
>>
>> Unlike your people, my people had no slaves and I have no guilt, nor
>> should I. Meantime, enjoy you plantation and cheap labor.
>
>You just don't get it. My grandparents were brought in to work the fields an do various jobs that didn't suit the white folks. We didn't own any slaves, we were the slaves. At least your family weren't slaves in the US. Well, my guess is that your family was dirt poor when they got off the boat, as was most immigrants and they worked like slaves.
>
>My wife's family did own slaves. Well, at least, one bitch and her kid. The family still owns the bill of sale. Does she feel guilty about it? A little. Should she? Not at all.
>
>As it goes Hawaii never had slaves - unless you call indentured servitude or working for low, low, wages slavery. In modern times it would be called "slavery", back then it was business as usual.
>
>Your lame article (which you did not understand) was about the legal action to get rid of the last vestiges of the Hawaiian Monarchy and start anew. As such, all contracts were deemed null and void in the newly created legal landscape of the United States. The idea that its purpose was to free the slaves of Hawaii is rather startling.
>
>Your best bet is to try to lay your guilt trip on people that at one time had ancestors that owned slaves. My guess is that it'll fall on deaf ears. God knows, it certainly won't work on mine.

Are you finally talking about the origin of the enormous racist chip
on your shoulder, humble Google Grouping Hawaiian?

dsi1 wrote:
>
> Sure, why not use a reminder of a horrible past to sell product? What's the harm? Let's change the pancake box mascot to Cousin Anne and sell product aimed at holocaust survivors and neo-nazis. Yeah, that might make some profits for the company. In the end, profits are the only thing that matter.

True. In the end, profits DO matter.
Don't you have a retirement account? Investing your savings
for retirement in evil corporations and hoping they will
earn you the best return?

As far as past reminders of our history, let's tear down
all reminders of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.
USAs most beloved past presidents. That's just to name
a few.

Both were slave owners. We should remove their faces
from all currency, tear down their preserved mansions
and monuments. Even Lincoln was a racist. He freed
the blacks but he had no love for them.
We could even rename Washington DC to MLK DC.

All lives do matter but all this old slavery crying
is just that...crap. Time to move on people and quit
bitching about the past that can't be changed.

And in the black community, clean up your own act then
the police won't go so hard on you.

"Gary" wrote in message ...

dsi1 wrote:
>
> Sure, why not use a reminder of a horrible past to sell product? What's
> the harm? Let's change the pancake box mascot to Cousin Anne and sell
> product aimed at holocaust survivors and neo-nazis. Yeah, that might make
> some profits for the company. In the end, profits are the only thing that
> matter.

True. In the end, profits DO matter.
Don't you have a retirement account? Investing your savings
for retirement in evil corporations and hoping they will
earn you the best return?

As far as past reminders of our history, let's tear down
all reminders of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.
USAs most beloved past presidents. That's just to name
a few.

Both were slave owners. We should remove their faces
from all currency, tear down their preserved mansions
and monuments. Even Lincoln was a racist. He freed
the blacks but he had no love for them.
We could even rename Washington DC to MLK DC.

===

Good post! Thanks, Gary!



All lives do matter but all this old slavery crying
is just that...crap. Time to move on people and quit
bitching about the past that can't be changed.

And in the black community, clean up your own act then
the police won't go so hard on you.

dsi1 wrote:
>
> As it goes Hawaii never had slaves - unless you call indentured servitude or working for low, low, wages slavery. In modern times it would be called "slavery", back then it was business as usual.

That's true. In the beginning of modern times many chinese were
brought in to work the new pineapple fields. They worked hard,
eventually paid off their debt then started buying land and
started their own businesses.

Same with building railroads on the mainland and even doing
the salmon canning in Alaska.

On 6/21/2020 11:08 AM, Gary wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>>
>> As it goes Hawaii never had slaves - unless you call indentured servitude or working for low, low, wages slavery. In modern times it would be called "slavery", back then it was business as usual.
>
> That's true. In the beginning of modern times many chinese were
> brought in to work the new pineapple fields. They worked hard,
> eventually paid off their debt then started buying land and
> started their own businesses.
>
> Same with building railroads on the mainland and even doing
> the salmon canning in Alaska.
>
In the 1850s in the US you could make as much a $1 an hour. Hawaiians
were paying the Japanese workers $3 a month so that is not slavery
according to David. Maybe while toiling in the fields they played Don
Ho songs for them.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> On 6/21/2020 11:08 AM, Gary wrote:
> > dsi1 wrote:
> >>
> >> As it goes Hawaii never had slaves - unless you call indentured servitude or working for low, low, wages slavery. In modern times it would be called "slavery", back then it was business as usual.
> >
> > That's true. In the beginning of modern times many chinese were
> > brought in to work the new pineapple fields. They worked hard,
> > eventually paid off their debt then started buying land and
> > started their own businesses.
> >
> > Same with building railroads on the mainland and even doing
> > the salmon canning in Alaska.
> >
> In the 1850s in the US you could make as much a $1 an hour. Hawaiians
> were paying the Japanese workers $3 a month so that is not slavery
> according to David. Maybe while toiling in the fields they played Don
> Ho songs for them.

Not Hawaii - related, but since our history - including statues/monuments/narratives - is now under "revision", this caught my eye:


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53123947

Gelsenkirchen: Controversial Lenin statue erected in German city

"A far-left party in Germany has erected a controversial statue of communist leader Vladimir Lenin.

The tiny Marxist-Leninist Party of Germany (MLPD) installed the statue in front of its headquarters in the western city of Gelsenkirchen.

City authorities had attempted to stop the statue being installed and launched an online hashtag saying there was "no place for Lenin".

But courts blocked their appeals and the unveiling went ahead on Saturday.

Lenin was a leader of the 1917 Russian Revolution and led the country until his death in 1924, when he was succeeded by Josef Stalin. However, he has remained a symbol of communism rule across the world, both among supporters and those who remember the human rights abuses that took place under the USSR.

Germany itself was divided for decades between the West and the communist East, until the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989

In the debate surrounding the Gelsenkirchen statue, which was made in Czechoslovakia, as it was then known, in 1957, both sides drew parallels to the tearing down of monuments linked to slavery which has taken place in anti-racism protests across the world in recent weeks.

"We live in a time in which many countries of the world are reflecting on memorials," said mayor Frank Baranowski in one of a series of YouTube videos posted by the city council against the statue.

"It's hard to put up with the fact that a dictator from the 21st Century is being placed on a pedestal and a memorial is being made out of it. Unfortunately the courts have decided otherwise, we must accept that, but not without comment."

However, MLPD's chair, Gabi Fechtner, described the communist leader as "an ahead-of-his-time thinker of world-historical importance, an early fighter for freedom and democracy", according to the AFP news agency..."

</>

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 3:04:13 AM UTC-10, Gary wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
> >
> > Sure, why not use a reminder of a horrible past to sell product? What's the harm? Let's change the pancake box mascot to Cousin Anne and sell product aimed at holocaust survivors and neo-nazis. Yeah, that might make some profits for the company. In the end, profits are the only thing that matter..
>
> True. In the end, profits DO matter.
> Don't you have a retirement account? Investing your savings
> for retirement in evil corporations and hoping they will
> earn you the best return?
>
> As far as past reminders of our history, let's tear down
> all reminders of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.
> USAs most beloved past presidents. That's just to name
> a few.
>
> Both were slave owners. We should remove their faces
> from all currency, tear down their preserved mansions
> and monuments. Even Lincoln was a racist. He freed
> the blacks but he had no love for them.
> We could even rename Washington DC to MLK DC.
>
> All lives do matter but all this old slavery crying
> is just that...crap. Time to move on people and quit
> bitching about the past that can't be changed.
>
> And in the black community, clean up your own act then
> the police won't go so hard on you.

My wife has a problem with Washington and Jefferson being slave owners. I don't have any particular feelings about it. Logically, she's right, of course. My guess is, that in the future, these two founding fathers are going to go down too. It might be real soon.

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 3:45:49 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
> "Gary" wrote in message ...
>
> dsi1 wrote:
> >
> > Sure, why not use a reminder of a horrible past to sell product? What's
> > the harm? Let's change the pancake box mascot to Cousin Anne and sell
> > product aimed at holocaust survivors and neo-nazis. Yeah, that might make
> > some profits for the company. In the end, profits are the only thing that
> > matter.
>
> True. In the end, profits DO matter.
> Don't you have a retirement account? Investing your savings
> for retirement in evil corporations and hoping they will
> earn you the best return?
>
> As far as past reminders of our history, let's tear down
> all reminders of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.
> USAs most beloved past presidents. That's just to name
> a few.
>
> Both were slave owners. We should remove their faces
> from all currency, tear down their preserved mansions
> and monuments. Even Lincoln was a racist. He freed
> the blacks but he had no love for them.
> We could even rename Washington DC to MLK DC.
>
> ===
>
> Good post! Thanks, Gary!
>
>
>
> All lives do matter but all this old slavery crying
> is just that...crap. Time to move on people and quit
> bitching about the past that can't be changed.
>
> And in the black community, clean up your own act then
> the police won't go so hard on you.

We visited the International Slavery Museum when we were in Liverpool. It was interesting and moving. The Brits abolished slavery about 30 years before the Yanks did. The difference, of course, is that they didn't have a civil war over the matter, nor have they spent the last 160 years trying to resolve the conflict.

On 6/21/2020 12:35 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 3:04:13 AM UTC-10, Gary wrote:
>> dsi1 wrote:
>>>
>>> Sure, why not use a reminder of a horrible past to sell product? What's the harm? Let's change the pancake box mascot to Cousin Anne and sell product aimed at holocaust survivors and neo-nazis. Yeah, that might make some profits for the company. In the end, profits are the only thing that matter.
>>
>> True. In the end, profits DO matter.
>> Don't you have a retirement account? Investing your savings
>> for retirement in evil corporations and hoping they will
>> earn you the best return?
>>
>> As far as past reminders of our history, let's tear down
>> all reminders of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.
>> USAs most beloved past presidents. That's just to name
>> a few.
>>
>> Both were slave owners. We should remove their faces
>> from all currency, tear down their preserved mansions
>> and monuments. Even Lincoln was a racist. He freed
>> the blacks but he had no love for them.
>> We could even rename Washington DC to MLK DC.
>>
>> All lives do matter but all this old slavery crying
>> is just that...crap. Time to move on people and quit
>> bitching about the past that can't be changed.
>>
>> And in the black community, clean up your own act then
>> the police won't go so hard on you.
>
> My wife has a problem with Washington and Jefferson being slave owners. I don't have any particular feelings about it. Logically, she's right, of course. My guess is, that in the future, these two founding fathers are going to go down too. It might be real soon.
>
People that actually know history also know Washington freed his slaves.
They don't hold grudges against everything that happened over 200
years ago. It was never right to own slaves but it was not seen that
way at the time. Same as many other habits and traditions from the
past. We pretty much got rid of human sacrifice and cannibalism too.

Despite having been an active slave holder for 56 years, George
Washington struggled with the institution of slavery and spoke
frequently of his desire to end the practice. At the end of his life,
Washington made the decision to free all his slaves in his 1799 will -
the only slave-holding Founding Father to do so.

Jefferson only freed a handful but made some attempts to treat them ore
humanely.

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 7:45:22 AM UTC-10, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 6/21/2020 12:35 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 3:04:13 AM UTC-10, Gary wrote:
> >> dsi1 wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Sure, why not use a reminder of a horrible past to sell product? What's the harm? Let's change the pancake box mascot to Cousin Anne and sell product aimed at holocaust survivors and neo-nazis. Yeah, that might make some profits for the company. In the end, profits are the only thing that matter.
> >>
> >> True. In the end, profits DO matter.
> >> Don't you have a retirement account? Investing your savings
> >> for retirement in evil corporations and hoping they will
> >> earn you the best return?
> >>
> >> As far as past reminders of our history, let's tear down
> >> all reminders of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.
> >> USAs most beloved past presidents. That's just to name
> >> a few.
> >>
> >> Both were slave owners. We should remove their faces
> >> from all currency, tear down their preserved mansions
> >> and monuments. Even Lincoln was a racist. He freed
> >> the blacks but he had no love for them.
> >> We could even rename Washington DC to MLK DC.
> >>
> >> All lives do matter but all this old slavery crying
> >> is just that...crap. Time to move on people and quit
> >> bitching about the past that can't be changed.
> >>
> >> And in the black community, clean up your own act then
> >> the police won't go so hard on you.
> >
> > My wife has a problem with Washington and Jefferson being slave owners. I don't have any particular feelings about it. Logically, she's right, of course. My guess is, that in the future, these two founding fathers are going to go down too. It might be real soon.
> >
> People that actually know history also know Washington freed his slaves.
> They don't hold grudges against everything that happened over 200
> years ago. It was never right to own slaves but it was not seen that
> way at the time. Same as many other habits and traditions from the
> past. We pretty much got rid of human sacrifice and cannibalism too.
>
> Despite having been an active slave holder for 56 years, George
> Washington struggled with the institution of slavery and spoke
> frequently of his desire to end the practice. At the end of his life,
> Washington made the decision to free all his slaves in his 1799 will -
> the only slave-holding Founding Father to do so.
>
> Jefferson only freed a handful but made some attempts to treat them ore
> humanely.

You're not saying anything that isn't common knowledge.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> On 6/21/2020 12:35 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 3:04:13 AM UTC-10, Gary wrote:
> >> dsi1 wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Sure, why not use a reminder of a horrible past to sell product? What's the harm? Let's change the pancake box mascot to Cousin Anne and sell product aimed at holocaust survivors and neo-nazis. Yeah, that might make some profits for the company. In the end, profits are the only thing that matter.
> >>
> >> True. In the end, profits DO matter.
> >> Don't you have a retirement account? Investing your savings
> >> for retirement in evil corporations and hoping they will
> >> earn you the best return?
> >>
> >> As far as past reminders of our history, let's tear down
> >> all reminders of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.
> >> USAs most beloved past presidents. That's just to name
> >> a few.
> >>
> >> Both were slave owners. We should remove their faces
> >> from all currency, tear down their preserved mansions
> >> and monuments. Even Lincoln was a racist. He freed
> >> the blacks but he had no love for them.
> >> We could even rename Washington DC to MLK DC.
> >>
> >> All lives do matter but all this old slavery crying
> >> is just that...crap. Time to move on people and quit
> >> bitching about the past that can't be changed.
> >>
> >> And in the black community, clean up your own act then
> >> the police won't go so hard on you.
> >
> > My wife has a problem with Washington and Jefferson being slave owners. I don't have any particular feelings about it. Logically, she's right, of course. My guess is, that in the future, these two founding fathers are going to go down too. It might be real soon.
> >
> People that actually know history also know Washington freed his slaves.
> They don't hold grudges against everything that happened over 200
> years ago. It was never right to own slaves but it was not seen that
> way at the time. Same as many other habits and traditions from the
> past. We pretty much got rid of human sacrifice and cannibalism too.
>
> Despite having been an active slave holder for 56 years, George
> Washington struggled with the institution of slavery and spoke
> frequently of his desire to end the practice. At the end of his life,
> Washington made the decision to free all his slaves in his 1799 will -
> the only slave-holding Founding Father to do so.
>
> Jefferson only freed a handful but made some attempts to treat them ore
> humanely.


Thank you...

Historical revisionism can be extended to absurd lengths, any past historical figure can be held up to scrutiny, but we have the luxury of hindsight, they did not. FDR interned the Japanese, but he led us through the Depression and WWII...Churchill was a "colonialist" and held what we now know are racist views but he led the UK and the Allied alliance through WWII...LBJ had segregationist views, but when he became POTUS he pushed through important civil rights legislation...and a million more examples.

My "metric" is "Did these figures leave the world a better place?"...the above examples, despite their flaws, did on - balance IMNSHO...

There is a current discussion on an East German history FB group I participate in, it is about the Lenin statue just erected by a far - left group in a small German town. Some on the group are defending Lenin, claiming that the Bolsheviks "despite their flaws" made the USSR into a modern nation, others say (myself among them, though I am not in the discussion anymore) that his bloody tactics led to the 100 million dead that communism/socialism are responsible for. Their are similar arguments for Stalin, that despite the purges and the millions dead by his hand, that he led the USSR to victory over the Nazis. Same arguements I've seen about Castro, etc....and there are still a few odd ducks out there who actually *defend* the building of the Berlin Wall...and so on!

Lenin, Castro and their ilk have NOT left the world a better place overall according to my historial metrics, so they should be condemned and not nicely commemorated...

Thing is, many in their "rush to historical judgement" do not know history, thus we have the present - day US "progressives" dissing Washington, Jefferson, even Lincoln. And some BLM and other activists disrespect the actions of MLK, Rosa Parks, Marian Anderson, many others...

I'm just sayin...

;-)

--
Best
Greg

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 8:11:29 AM UTC-10, GM wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> > On 6/21/2020 12:35 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> > > On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 3:04:13 AM UTC-10, Gary wrote:
> > >> dsi1 wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Sure, why not use a reminder of a horrible past to sell product? What's the harm? Let's change the pancake box mascot to Cousin Anne and sell product aimed at holocaust survivors and neo-nazis. Yeah, that might make some profits for the company. In the end, profits are the only thing that matter.
> > >>
> > >> True. In the end, profits DO matter.
> > >> Don't you have a retirement account? Investing your savings
> > >> for retirement in evil corporations and hoping they will
> > >> earn you the best return?
> > >>
> > >> As far as past reminders of our history, let's tear down
> > >> all reminders of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.
> > >> USAs most beloved past presidents. That's just to name
> > >> a few.
> > >>
> > >> Both were slave owners. We should remove their faces
> > >> from all currency, tear down their preserved mansions
> > >> and monuments. Even Lincoln was a racist. He freed
> > >> the blacks but he had no love for them.
> > >> We could even rename Washington DC to MLK DC.
> > >>
> > >> All lives do matter but all this old slavery crying
> > >> is just that...crap. Time to move on people and quit
> > >> bitching about the past that can't be changed.
> > >>
> > >> And in the black community, clean up your own act then
> > >> the police won't go so hard on you.
> > >
> > > My wife has a problem with Washington and Jefferson being slave owners. I don't have any particular feelings about it. Logically, she's right, of course. My guess is, that in the future, these two founding fathers are going to go down too. It might be real soon.
> > >
> > People that actually know history also know Washington freed his slaves..
> > They don't hold grudges against everything that happened over 200
> > years ago. It was never right to own slaves but it was not seen that
> > way at the time. Same as many other habits and traditions from the
> > past. We pretty much got rid of human sacrifice and cannibalism too.
> >
> > Despite having been an active slave holder for 56 years, George
> > Washington struggled with the institution of slavery and spoke
> > frequently of his desire to end the practice. At the end of his life,
> > Washington made the decision to free all his slaves in his 1799 will -
> > the only slave-holding Founding Father to do so.
> >
> > Jefferson only freed a handful but made some attempts to treat them ore
> > humanely.
>
>
> Thank you...
>
> Historical revisionism can be extended to absurd lengths, any past historical figure can be held up to scrutiny, but we have the luxury of hindsight, they did not. FDR interned the Japanese, but he led us through the Depression and WWII...Churchill was a "colonialist" and held what we now know are racist views but he led the UK and the Allied alliance through WWII...LBJ had segregationist views, but when he became POTUS he pushed through important civil rights legislation...and a million more examples.
>
> My "metric" is "Did these figures leave the world a better place?"...the above examples, despite their flaws, did on - balance IMNSHO...
>
> There is a current discussion on an East German history FB group I participate in, it is about the Lenin statue just erected by a far - left group in a small German town. Some on the group are defending Lenin, claiming that the Bolsheviks "despite their flaws" made the USSR into a modern nation, others say (myself among them, though I am not in the discussion anymore) that his bloody tactics led to the 100 million dead that communism/socialism are responsible for. Their are similar arguments for Stalin, that despite the purges and the millions dead by his hand, that he led the USSR to victory over the Nazis. Same arguements I've seen about Castro, etc....and there are still a few odd ducks out there who actually *defend* the building of the Berlin Wall...and so on!
>
> Lenin, Castro and their ilk have NOT left the world a better place overall according to my historial metrics, so they should be condemned and not nicely commemorated...
>
> Thing is, many in their "rush to historical judgement" do not know history, thus we have the present - day US "progressives" dissing Washington, Jefferson, even Lincoln. And some BLM and other activists disrespect the actions of MLK, Rosa Parks, Marian Anderson, many others...
>
> I'm just sayin...
>
> ;-)
>
> --
> Best
> Greg

Indeed, you are just sayin. People's "metrics" are mostly rationalizations so they can see the world the way that need to. Every country will see their history and historical figures in whichever way that need to. In the end, whether one views things in the past in a favorable light or not matters about as much as what their favorite color is.

On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 12:27:07 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Is nothing sacred? After 130 years an old friend is gone. We grew up
> with Aunt Jemima for breakfast but she is going away.
>
> Some have considered the familiar figure racists but to me, she was just
> a familiar face, a nice lady that just wanted you to have a good
> breakfast. IMO, the world would be a better place if everyone had an
> Aunt like her.

Does anybody think this is about something besides Quaker Oats' bottom
line?

Obviously they feel the risk of keeping Auntie J is greater than
that of getting rid of her.

Cindy Hamilton