since the great soy sauce wars are in full kung fu mode
here i thought i would write up what we bought the other
day to try out.

some years before i had picked up another bottle of
mushroom soy sauce to try it out as i know Mom loves
mushrooms. while it is always a risk that she won't try
anything new, she actually did use it and liked it for
cooking. a few weeks ago we ran out and she kept
reminding me that we needed to get some more.

this time i picked up a bottle of Healthy Boy Brand
Mushroom Soy Sauce - Made in Tailand.

i just tasted it and it's pretty good. not as dark
as the kind we had before but to me i don't care about
the color as much as the taste.


the ingredient list states:

"Naturally fermented from select soybeans and mushroom
in the modern process."

Ingredients :
Water, Defatted Soybean, Wheat, Salt, Sugar, Mushroom
extract,

Flavor enhancers : Monosodium glutamate, Disodium-5
Inosinate, Disodium 5 Guanylate,

Preservative : Sodium Benzolate

Natural Color : Caramel, Artificial Mushroom Flavor

what a mess of a label, but anyways, i'm not all that
keen on MSG but i'm sure i won't notice it in the
quantities we use this stuff. since we normally don't
add salt to much of what we cook i would notice MSG
and soy sauce added to about anything unless it was
used very sparingly.

as a sippin' sauce it was good. haha, not sure i
would want it on the rocks.


songbird

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 11:06:12 -0500, songbird wrote:

> since the great soy sauce wars are in full kung fu mode
> here i thought i would write up what we bought the other
> day to try out.
>
> some years before i had picked up another bottle of
> mushroom soy sauce to try it out as i know Mom loves
> mushrooms. while it is always a risk that she won't try
> anything new, she actually did use it and liked it for
> cooking. a few weeks ago we ran out and she kept
> reminding me that we needed to get some more.
>
> this time i picked up a bottle of Healthy Boy Brand
> Mushroom Soy Sauce - Made in Tailand.
>
> i just tasted it and it's pretty good. not as dark
> as the kind we had before but to me i don't care about
> the color as much as the taste.
>
>
> the ingredient list states:
>
> "Naturally fermented from select soybeans and mushroom
> in the modern process."
>
> Ingredients :
> Water, Defatted Soybean, Wheat, Salt, Sugar, Mushroom
> extract,
>
> Flavor enhancers : Monosodium glutamate, Disodium-5
> Inosinate, Disodium 5 Guanylate,
>
> Preservative : Sodium Benzolate
>
> Natural Color : Caramel, Artificial Mushroom Flavor
>
> what a mess of a label, but anyways, i'm not all that
> keen on MSG but i'm sure i won't notice it in the
> quantities we use this stuff. since we normally don't
> add salt to much of what we cook i would notice MSG
> and soy sauce added to about anything unless it was
> used very sparingly.
>
> as a sippin' sauce it was good. haha, not sure i
> would want it on the rocks.
>
>
> songbird

In the UK you can buy mushroom ketchup, which looks like soy sauce. I have
a 19C recipe that uses an enormous amount of mushrooms. The modern stuff
is, ISTR, coloured with caramel.

On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 10:56:17 AM UTC-6, Graham wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 11:06:12 -0500, songbird wrote:
>
> > since the great soy sauce wars are in full kung fu mode
> > here i thought i would write up what we bought the other
> > day to try out.
> >
> > some years before i had picked up another bottle of
> > mushroom soy sauce to try it out as i know Mom loves
> > mushrooms. while it is always a risk that she won't try
> > anything new, she actually did use it and liked it for
> > cooking. a few weeks ago we ran out and she kept
> > reminding me that we needed to get some more.
> >
> > this time i picked up a bottle of Healthy Boy Brand
> > Mushroom Soy Sauce - Made in Tailand.
> >
> > i just tasted it and it's pretty good. not as dark
> > as the kind we had before but to me i don't care about
> > the color as much as the taste.
> >
> >
> > the ingredient list states:
> >
> > "Naturally fermented from select soybeans and mushroom
> > in the modern process."
> >
> > Ingredients :
> > Water, Defatted Soybean, Wheat, Salt, Sugar, Mushroom
> > extract,
> >
> > Flavor enhancers : Monosodium glutamate, Disodium-5
> > Inosinate, Disodium 5 Guanylate,
> >
> > Preservative : Sodium Benzolate
> >
> > Natural Color : Caramel, Artificial Mushroom Flavor
> >
> > what a mess of a label, but anyways, i'm not all that
> > keen on MSG but i'm sure i won't notice it in the
> > quantities we use this stuff. since we normally don't
> > add salt to much of what we cook i would notice MSG
> > and soy sauce added to about anything unless it was
> > used very sparingly.
> >
> > as a sippin' sauce it was good. haha, not sure i
> > would want it on the rocks.
> >
> >
> > songbird
> In the UK you can buy mushroom ketchup, which looks like soy sauce. I have
> a 19C recipe that uses an enormous amount of mushrooms. The modern stuff
> is, ISTR, coloured with caramel.

https://****yeahrichardbrautigan.tum...nut-catsup/amp

--Bryan

On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 10:56:17 AM UTC-6, Graham wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 11:06:12 -0500, songbird wrote:
>
> > since the great soy sauce wars are in full kung fu mode
> > here i thought i would write up what we bought the other
> > day to try out.
> >
> > some years before i had picked up another bottle of
> > mushroom soy sauce to try it out as i know Mom loves
> > mushrooms. while it is always a risk that she won't try
> > anything new, she actually did use it and liked it for
> > cooking. a few weeks ago we ran out and she kept
> > reminding me that we needed to get some more.
> >
> > this time i picked up a bottle of Healthy Boy Brand
> > Mushroom Soy Sauce - Made in Tailand.
> >
> > i just tasted it and it's pretty good. not as dark
> > as the kind we had before but to me i don't care about
> > the color as much as the taste.
> >
> >
> > the ingredient list states:
> >
> > "Naturally fermented from select soybeans and mushroom
> > in the modern process."
> >
> > Ingredients :
> > Water, Defatted Soybean, Wheat, Salt, Sugar, Mushroom
> > extract,
> >
> > Flavor enhancers : Monosodium glutamate, Disodium-5
> > Inosinate, Disodium 5 Guanylate,
> >
> > Preservative : Sodium Benzolate
> >
> > Natural Color : Caramel, Artificial Mushroom Flavor
> >
> > what a mess of a label, but anyways, i'm not all that
> > keen on MSG but i'm sure i won't notice it in the
> > quantities we use this stuff. since we normally don't
> > add salt to much of what we cook i would notice MSG
> > and soy sauce added to about anything unless it was
> > used very sparingly.
> >
> > as a sippin' sauce it was good. haha, not sure i
> > would want it on the rocks.
> >
> >
> > songbird
> In the UK you can buy mushroom ketchup, which looks like soy sauce. I have
> a 19C recipe that uses an enorm--ous amount of mushrooms. The modern stuff
> is, ISTR, coloured with caramel.


Many sorts of ketchups, years ago when I did home canning I made several, IIRC one was a walnut ketchup...I did not use the below recipe, this is old English and uses anchovies! He

https://honest-food.net/walnut-ketchup-recipe/

Squirrels love walnuts. So to be a walnut tree, you either need to be fortunate enough to grow where there are no squirrels, or be strong enough to push out lots and lots and lots of walnuts, so the squirrels and jays and yes, people, can have their share. In fact, these virile trees push out so many little nuts that they factor in loss €” to not strip some off in springtime stunts those that remain.

Thats where we come in. There are several things you can do with unripe walnuts. My favorite is pickled walnuts. The French and Italians make a liqueur from unripe walnuts, too. And the English make a wonderful sauce from them called walnut ketchup.

This unusual condiment seems to have originated in 1700s Britain, and the word ketchup is either from Chinese or Southeast Asian origin. Back then there were lots of ketchups, and only later did tomato win the tournament as the One True Ketchup. One of the old ketchups was this walnut ketchup.

My recipe is an amalgam of one from 1808 and one from Gourmet magazine from 1948. Basically you mash unripe walnuts, let them steep in vinegar for a week or more, then boil everything with wine, spicy things, anchovies and onion, strain and bottle. Anchovies? Yeah, sounds gnarly. But it isnt. The sauce isnt fishy at all, and the anchovies add a savory note to the sauce.

What, then, does walnut ketchup taste like? Its very sharp, as you might guess from all that vinegar, but beyond the acidity, it tastes like a combination of Worcestershire and A1 Steak sauce. I am not kidding. It really is a dead ringer for A1, but is thin like Worcestershire.

Nowadays theres no reason not to use this sauce right away. But back in the day, cooks would put up this sauce and store it for at least a year before serving. It needs time to mellow, like wine. Take this note, from Maria Eliza Ketelby Rundell, in her book A New System of Domestic Cooking (1808): €œIt will keep 20 years in the greatest perfection, but it is not fit for use the first year.€�

My advice: Go ahead and use some when you make it. But I can tell you that it really does mellow well after a year. I cant speak for 20.

Walnut Ketchup
I used unripe black walnuts for this recipe, but any unripe walnut will do. Ideally they are young enough to jam a knife all the way through, but you can even use slightly older nuts where the inner shell of the nut itself is starting to form. Keep in mind this is not as thick as tomato ketchup. It's more like a Worcestershire sauce, but it tastes more like A1. Use this as a marinade or splash it on any sort of red meat -- beef, venison, duck, goose, hare, etc.

Prep Time
20 mins
Cook Time
45 mins
Total Time
1 hr 5 mins

Course: Condiment, SauceCuisine: BritishKeyword: walnuts Servings: 6 cups Author: Hank Shaw
Ingredients:

About 50 green walnuts
3 tablespoons kosher salt
1 12- ounce bottle malt vinegar
3 to 4 cups cider vinegar
2 ounces of anchovies, rinsed well
1 large onion, chopped
1 cup red wine or Port
1 teaspoon ground nutmeg
2 teaspoons ground black pepper
1 teaspoon cayenne
1/4 cup chopped or grated horseradish
A 1-inch piece of ginger, unpeeled and sliced thin
1/2 teaspoon xanthan gum (optional)

Instructions
Crush, chop, crack or grind your walnuts. Remember this is a messy job and the liquid will stain, so your method should reflect that. I wear gloves and a ratty long-sleeved shirt and chop my walnuts small with a stainless steel knife on a dark-stained cutting board, This minimizes the staining.

Put the walnuts in a large glass or other non-reactive container and cover with the two vinegars. I find it makes a better walnut ketchup with only malt vinegar, but as this can get expensive, you can make do with some malt vinegar balanced with some cider vinegar. Just barely cover the walnuts with the vinegar. Put the lid on the container and let this sit at room temperature for 8 days.

After 8 days, move the walnuts and vinegar into a large, non-reactive pot and add the remaining ingredients. Boil gently for 45 minutes, then strain through a fine-mesh sieve to separate the solids. As an extra step, you can wait until the sauce cools and then buzz the sauce in a blender with the xanthan gum; this will keep the very fine solids suspended in the ketchup and give you a sauce with more body.
Bottle the sauce and keep it in a cool, dark place indefinitely..."

</>

Graham wrote:
....
> In the UK you can buy mushroom ketchup, which looks like soy sauce. I have
> a 19C recipe that uses an enormous amount of mushrooms. The modern stuff
> is, ISTR, coloured with caramel.

ketchup used to be a more generic term. there were
several kinds. probably quite a few regional variations
similar to pickles/chutneys of India or the other
condiments of other regions in the world.


songbird

On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 10:06:28 AM UTC-6, songbird wrote:
> since the great soy sauce wars are in full kung fu mode
> here i thought i would write up what we bought the other
> day to try out.
>
> some years before i had picked up another bottle of
> mushroom soy sauce to try it out as i know Mom loves
> mushrooms. while it is always a risk that she won't try
> anything new, she actually did use it and liked it for
> cooking. a few weeks ago we ran out and she kept
> reminding me that we needed to get some more.
>
> this time i picked up a bottle of Healthy Boy Brand
> Mushroom Soy Sauce - Made in Tailand.
>
> i just tasted it and it's pretty good. not as dark
> as the kind we had before but to me i don't care about
> the color as much as the taste.
>
>
> the ingredient list states:
>
> "Naturally fermented from select soybeans and mushroom
> in the modern process."
>
> Ingredients :
> Water, Defatted Soybean, Wheat, Salt, Sugar, Mushroom
> extract,
>
> Flavor enhancers : Monosodium glutamate, Disodium-5
> Inosinate, Disodium 5 Guanylate,
>
I have a very large box of Disodium-5 & Inosinate, Disodium 5 Guanylate

https://www.flickr.com/photos/36178182@N08/50705872238/

I bought it almost 6 years ago, and I doubt that I've used more than a few
grams, which makes that box a >10,000 year supply.
>
> songbird

--Bryan

On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 11:08:01 AM UTC-6, Bryan Simmons wrote:
> On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 10:06:28 AM UTC-6, songbird wrote:
> > since the great soy sauce wars are in full kung fu mode
> > here i thought i would write up what we bought the other
> > day to try out.
> >
> > some years before i had picked up another bottle of
> > mushroom soy sauce to try it out as i know Mom loves
> > mushrooms. while it is always a risk that she won't try
> > anything new, she actually did use it and liked it for
> > cooking. a few weeks ago we ran out and she kept
> > reminding me that we needed to get some more.
> >
> > this time i picked up a bottle of Healthy Boy Brand
> > Mushroom Soy Sauce - Made in Tailand.
> >
> > i just tasted it and it's pretty good. not as dark
> > as the kind we had before but to me i don't care about
> > the color as much as the taste.
> >
> >
> > the ingredient list states:
> >
> > "Naturally fermented from select soybeans and mushroom
> > in the modern process."
> >
> > Ingredients :
> > Water, Defatted Soybean, Wheat, Salt, Sugar, Mushroom
> > extract,
> >
> > Flavor enhancers : Monosodium glutamate, Disodium-5
> > Inosinate, Disodium 5 Guanylate,
> >
> I have a very large box of Disodium-5 & Inosinate, Disodium 5 Guanylate
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/36178182@N08/50705872238/
>
> I bought it almost 6 years ago, and I doubt that I've used more than a few
> grams, which makes that box a >10,000 year supply.

$10 for a lifetime supply:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Disodium-5-...r/233693610145
> >
> > songbird
>
> --Bryan

--Bryan

On 2020 Dec 11, , Bryan Simmons wrote
(in >):

> I have a very large box of Disodium-5 & Inosinate, Disodium 5 Guanylate
> I bought it almost 6 years ago, and I doubt that I've used more than a few
> grams, which makes that box a >10,000 year supply.

You had to have a reason to buy 22 pounds of whatever that stuff is. What was
it?

leo

On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 15:17:13 -0800, Leo >
wrote:

>On 2020 Dec 11, , Bryan Simmons wrote
>(in >):
>
>> I have a very large box of Disodium-5 & Inosinate, Disodium 5 Guanylate
>> I bought it almost 6 years ago, and I doubt that I've used more than a few
>> grams, which makes that box a >10,000 year supply.
>
>You had to have a reason to buy 22 pounds of whatever that stuff is. What was
>it?
>
He discovered a communist conspiracy under his kitchen sink. And you
know what disodium does to communists...

On 2020 Dec 12, , Bruce wrote
(in >):

> He discovered a communist conspiracy under his kitchen sink. And you
> know what disodium does to communists...

So you´re a communist. I hit a raw nerve. At least, now you know, and
knowing is half the battle. You can do better. I´m rooting for you.
You´re simply the product of a deficient education. So many are
nowadays.

On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 17:05:09 -0800, Leo >
wrote:

>On 2020 Dec 12, , Bruce wrote
>(in >):
>
>> He discovered a communist conspiracy under his kitchen sink. And you
>> know what disodium does to communists...
>
>So you´re a communist.

Nah.

>I hit a raw nerve. At least, now you know, and knowing is half
>the battle. You can do better. I´m rooting for you.
>You´re simply the product of a deficient education. So many are
>nowadays.

You're still really ****ed off that your mini-Hitler lost, aren't you?

Leo wrote:
> On 2020 Dec 12, , Bruce wrote
> (in >):
>
>> He discovered a communist conspiracy under his kitchen sink. And you
>> know what disodium does to communists...
>
> So you´re a communist. I hit a raw nerve. At least, now you know, and
> knowing is half the battle. You can do better. I´m rooting for you.
> You´re simply the product of a deficient education. So many are
> nowadays.

Jesus was a communist.


songbird

On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 6:06:28 AM UTC-10, songbird wrote:
> since the great soy sauce wars are in full kung fu mode
> here i thought i would write up what we bought the other
> day to try out.
>
> some years before i had picked up another bottle of
> mushroom soy sauce to try it out as i know Mom loves
> mushrooms. while it is always a risk that she won't try
> anything new, she actually did use it and liked it for
> cooking. a few weeks ago we ran out and she kept
> reminding me that we needed to get some more.
>
> this time i picked up a bottle of Healthy Boy Brand
> Mushroom Soy Sauce - Made in Tailand.
>
> i just tasted it and it's pretty good. not as dark
> as the kind we had before but to me i don't care about
> the color as much as the taste.
>
>
> the ingredient list states:
>
> "Naturally fermented from select soybeans and mushroom
> in the modern process."
>
> Ingredients :
> Water, Defatted Soybean, Wheat, Salt, Sugar, Mushroom
> extract,
>
> Flavor enhancers : Monosodium glutamate, Disodium-5
> Inosinate, Disodium 5 Guanylate,
>
> Preservative : Sodium Benzolate
>
> Natural Color : Caramel, Artificial Mushroom Flavor
>
> what a mess of a label, but anyways, i'm not all that
> keen on MSG but i'm sure i won't notice it in the
> quantities we use this stuff. since we normally don't
> add salt to much of what we cook i would notice MSG
> and soy sauce added to about anything unless it was
> used very sparingly.
>
> as a sippin' sauce it was good. haha, not sure i
> would want it on the rocks.
>
>
> songbird
I bought a big container of Lee Kum Kee Dark Mushroom flavored Soy Sauce - it was less than 4 bucks. It was highly effective for darkening dishes. The demo video on this site looks to be a misuse of this product. Chinese cooks would probably cringe.

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/lee...37LKK0255.html

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 11:06:12 -0500, songbird >
wrote:

> since the great soy sauce wars are in full kung fu mode
>here i thought i would write up what we bought the other
>day to try out.
>
> some years before i had picked up another bottle of
>mushroom soy sauce to try it out as i know Mom loves
>mushrooms. while it is always a risk that she won't try
>anything new, she actually did use it and liked it for
>cooking. a few weeks ago we ran out and she kept
>reminding me that we needed to get some more.
>
> this time i picked up a bottle of Healthy Boy Brand
>Mushroom Soy Sauce - Made in Tailand.
>
> i just tasted it and it's pretty good. not as dark
>as the kind we had before but to me i don't care about
>the color as much as the taste.
>
>
> the ingredient list states:
>
>"Naturally fermented from select soybeans and mushroom
>in the modern process."
>
>Ingredients :
>Water, Defatted Soybean, Wheat, Salt, Sugar, Mushroom
>extract,
>
>Flavor enhancers : Monosodium glutamate, Disodium-5
>Inosinate, Disodium 5 Guanylate,
>
>Preservative : Sodium Benzolate
>
>Natural Color : Caramel, Artificial Mushroom Flavor
>
> what a mess of a label, but anyways, i'm not all that
>keen on MSG but i'm sure i won't notice it in the
>quantities we use this stuff. since we normally don't
>add salt to much of what we cook i would notice MSG
>and soy sauce added to about anything unless it was
>used very sparingly.
>
> as a sippin' sauce it was good. haha, not sure i
>would want it on the rocks.

"Naturally fermented" must not be a legally protected term, because
this looks as natural as Donald Trump's hair.