On 2020-12-28 6:52 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:

>>>> fortay or fort
>>>
>>> Depends whether Merriam-Webster is descriptive or prescriptive.
>> Descriptive.
>
> Now it's down to whether you think pronunciation is by majority rule.
>
> Should the majority of imbeciles decide how it should be pronounced,
> or should we use the French-ish pronunciation, since it's a French word?
>
>

I can live with fort for fortay. In French the fort would be masculine
and the t silent. With the e added the t is pronounced.

The one I have trouble with these days homage. I am used to be used to
it being pronounced with a silent or very weak h and a short o. I have
been hearing a lot of pretentiously arty versions of it with a short
vowels drawn out. They have gone from the English pronunciation of a
French word to a really bad attempt at French pronunciation of an
English word.

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 9:35:58 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2020-12-28 6:52 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> >>>> fortay or fort
> >>>
> >>> Depends whether Merriam-Webster is descriptive or prescriptive.
> >> Descriptive.
> >
> > Now it's down to whether you think pronunciation is by majority rule.
> >
> > Should the majority of imbeciles decide how it should be pronounced,
> > or should we use the French-ish pronunciation, since it's a French word?
> >
> >
> I can live with fort for fortay. In French the fort would be masculine
> and the t silent. With the e added the t is pronounced.
>
> The one I have trouble with these days homage. I am used to be used to
> it being pronounced with a silent or very weak h and a short o. I have
> been hearing a lot of pretentiously arty versions of it with a short
> vowels drawn out. They have gone from the English pronunciation of a
> French word to a really bad attempt at French pronunciation of an
> English word.

I use the pretentiously arty version when I'm talking about pretentiously
arty stuff.

For normal usage, a regular h and a short o. The weak or silent h
is an East Cost dialect in the U.S., so far as I know.

Cindy Hamilton

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 09:37:42 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2020-12-28 6:52 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>>>>> fortay or fort
>>>>
>>>> Depends whether Merriam-Webster is descriptive or prescriptive.
>>> Descriptive.
>>
>> Now it's down to whether you think pronunciation is by majority rule.
>>
>> Should the majority of imbeciles decide how it should be pronounced,
>> or should we use the French-ish pronunciation, since it's a French word?
>>
>>
>
> I can live with fort for fortay. In French the fort would be masculine
> and the t silent. With the e added the t is pronounced.
>
> The one I have trouble with these days homage. I am used to be used to
> it being pronounced with a silent or very weak h and a short o. I have
> been hearing a lot of pretentiously arty versions of it with a short
> vowels drawn out. They have gone from the English pronunciation of a
> French word to a really bad attempt at French pronunciation of an
> English word.

Vowel lengthening in foreign words is common these days. I think it must be
a middle-class affectation where the "abrupt-sounding" short vowel sounds
are thought to be undignified. So we have
Poh de creme for Pot de creme (short "o" and "t" silent). At least the
"creme" part is correctly pronounced.
Riz-oat-oh for risotto
Coasta Rica
Noatruh Darm for the Parisian cathedral

and many, many more!

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 04:39:50 -0800, Taxed and Spent
> wrote:

>On 12/27/2020 4:22 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 12/27/2020 6:09 PM, Master Bruce wrote:
>>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 17:58:40 -0500, Sheldon Martin >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 10:42:38 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 1:38:24 PM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 08:30:36 -0500, Gary > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My motto then was, "strength through disipline."
>>>>
>>>>>> I thought it was "Spelling is my forte."
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure. But you have to pronounce it "for-tay".
>>>>>
>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>
>>>> The correct pronunciation is fort... only
>>>> uneducated imbeciles say fortay... the forte is the strong portion of
>>>> a sword.
>>>
>>> Look he
>>> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forte>
>>>
>>> fortay or fort
>>>
>>
>> Multilingual:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNId...Pronunciations
>>
>
>But that doesn't say which meaning of forte. It is pronounced
>differently for different meanings. Strong suit: it is properly
>pronounced fort.

<https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forte>

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 03:52:35 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 5:50:29 AM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 02:46:11 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 6:09:43 PM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 17:58:40 -0500, Sheldon Martin >
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 10:42:38 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>Sure. But you have to pronounce it "for-tay".
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Cindy Hamilton
>> >> >
>> >> >The correct pronunciation is fort... only
>> >> >uneducated imbeciles say fortay... the forte is the strong portion of
>> >> >a sword.
>> >> Look he
>> >> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forte>
>> >>
>> >> fortay or fort
>> >
>> >Depends whether Merriam-Webster is descriptive or prescriptive.
>> Descriptive.
>
>Now it's down to whether you think pronunciation is by majority rule.
>
>Should the majority of imbeciles decide how it should be pronounced,
>or should we use the French-ish pronunciation, since it's a French word?

You pronounce the H in homage. French has no Hs, ever. Does that make
you an imbecile? I don't think so.

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 10:50:51 AM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 09:37:42 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:

> Coasta Rica

Why shouldn't it be pronounced that way? It's a Spanish phrase.

Cindy Hamilton

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 11:42:29 AM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 03:52:35 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> >On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 5:50:29 AM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
> >> On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 02:46:11 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 6:09:43 PM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 17:58:40 -0500, Sheldon Martin >
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 10:42:38 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>Sure. But you have to pronounce it "for-tay".
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Cindy Hamilton
> >> >> >
> >> >> >The correct pronunciation is fort... only
> >> >> >uneducated imbeciles say fortay... the forte is the strong portion of
> >> >> >a sword.
> >> >> Look he
> >> >> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forte>
> >> >>
> >> >> fortay or fort
> >> >
> >> >Depends whether Merriam-Webster is descriptive or prescriptive.
> >> Descriptive.
> >
> >Now it's down to whether you think pronunciation is by majority rule.
> >
> >Should the majority of imbeciles decide how it should be pronounced,
> >or should we use the French-ish pronunciation, since it's a French word?
> You pronounce the H in homage. French has no Hs, ever. Does that make
> you an imbecile? I don't think so.

If I were speaking French, that might be an issue. However, I'm speaking
the Midwestern dialect of U.S. English.

And, in fact, to blend in with the local dialect, I pronounce forte as
for-tay. (Although I generally try to avoid using that word at all.)

Cindy Hamilton

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 10:53:31 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 11:42:29 AM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 03:52:35 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 5:50:29 AM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 02:46:11 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 6:09:43 PM UTC-5, Master Bruce wrote:
>> >> >> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 17:58:40 -0500, Sheldon Martin >
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 10:42:38 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>Sure. But you have to pronounce it "for-tay".
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Cindy Hamilton
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >The correct pronunciation is fort... only
>> >> >> >uneducated imbeciles say fortay... the forte is the strong portion of
>> >> >> >a sword.
>> >> >> Look he
>> >> >> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forte>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> fortay or fort
>> >> >
>> >> >Depends whether Merriam-Webster is descriptive or prescriptive.
>> >> Descriptive.
>> >
>> >Now it's down to whether you think pronunciation is by majority rule.
>> >
>> >Should the majority of imbeciles decide how it should be pronounced,
>> >or should we use the French-ish pronunciation, since it's a French word?
>> You pronounce the H in homage. French has no Hs, ever. Does that make
>> you an imbecile? I don't think so.
>
>If I were speaking French, that might be an issue. However, I'm speaking
>the Midwestern dialect of U.S. English.

That's what I mean. It's not as if the French try to pronounce their
English words correctly.

>And, in fact, to blend in with the local dialect, I pronounce forte as
>for-tay. (Although I generally try to avoid using that word at all.)

I say fortay too. I must have heard it that way and I'm a copycat.