About a month there was some discussion about E-readers and some of
the posts convinced me that I should get one. I ordered on for curbside
pickup and was all set to download a book or two from the library, but
the I had a stack of real books from the library that I thought I should
finish first. Thanks to the pandemic it is a pain in the butt to find
books books at the library. OTOH the aren't in any hurry to get them
back, so you can keep them as long as you want. I finally finished the
last book the other day, so yesterday I downloaded an e-book.


I took it to bed with me and was able to read without having to have a
light on. I love the way I can adjust the brightness, the font, the font
size. My biggest problem is that if I accidentally touch the screen the
wrong way it turns the page.

It is a lot easier to use a computer to search for available books. I
can download them to the computer and then transfer them to the reader.

I can this thing getting a lot of use.

Dave Smith wrote:
> *About a month there was some discussion about E-readers and some
> of the posts convinced me that I should get one. I ordered on for
> curbside pickup and was all set to download a book or two from the
> library, but the I had a stack of real books from the library that
> I thought I should finish first. Thanks to the pandemic it is a
> pain in the butt to find books books at the library. OTOH the
> aren't in any hurry to get them back, so you can keep them as long
> as you want. I finally finished the last book the other day, so
> yesterday I downloaded an e-book.
>
>
> I took it to bed with me and was able to read without having to
> have a light on. I love the way I can adjust the brightness, the
> font, the font size. My biggest problem is that if I accidentally
> touch the screen the wrong way it turns the page.
>
> It is a lot easier to use a computer to search for available books.
> I can download them to the computer and then transfer them to the
> reader.
>
> I can this thing getting a lot of use.

WooHooo! ebooks.

Have you read bryan's book yet? It's free. Mike has one too.

On 2021-02-18 8:41 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:
> Â*About a month there was some discussion about E-readers and some of
> the posts convinced me that I should get one. I ordered on for curbside
> pickup and was all set to download a book or two from the library, but
> the I had a stack of real books from the library that I thought I should
> finish first. Thanks to the pandemic it is a pain in the butt to find
> books books at the library. OTOH the aren't in any hurry to get them
> back, so you can keep them as long as you want. I finally finished the
> last book the other day, so yesterday I downloaded an e-book.
>
>
> I took it to bed with me and was able to read without having to have a
> light on. I love the way I can adjust the brightness, the font, the font
> size. My biggest problem is that if I accidentally touch the screen the
> wrong way it turns the page.
>
> It is a lot easier to use a computer to search for available books. I
> can download them to the computer and then transfer them to the reader.
>
I haven't worked out how to do this yet. I download directly to my Kobo
but if I were to reserve a book at the library, I would have to use the
desktop as an intermediary.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 21:57:46 -0600, Hank Rogers wrote:

> Have you read Bryan's book yet? It's free. Mike has one too.

Thanks for the plug, Hank!

I'm not sure if I beat out Bryan or not. The only ones who admitted to
reading any of either is Gary and Pamela.

I beat Bryan because at least one person read my book, but I lose to
Bryan because the only person who read it says it was a waste of his time.

I don't want to spoil the plot for anyone, but Hank, I'm sure you would
like how President Bruce saves humanity from the space aliens. Maybe you
should try just reading the last half of my book. If I could then get
John to read the first half, perhaps you two could come up with a
consensus vote to bring me up out of the hole.

On 2/18/2021 9:41 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> Â*About a month there was some discussion about E-readers and some of
> the posts convinced me that I should get one. I ordered on for curbside
> pickup and was all set to download a book or two from the library, but
> the I had a stack of real books from the library that I thought I should
> finish first. Thanks to the pandemic it is a pain in the butt to find
> books books at the library. OTOH the aren't in any hurry to get them
> back, so you can keep them as long as you want. I finally finished the
> last book the other day, so yesterday I downloaded an e-book.
>
>
> I took it to bed with me and was able to read without having to have a
> light on. I love the way I can adjust the brightness, the font, the font
> size. My biggest problem is that if I accidentally touch the screen the
> wrong way it turns the page.
>
> It is a lot easier to use a computer to search for available books. I
> can download them to the computer and then transfer them to the reader.
>
> I can this thing getting a lot of use.

You could read my book.

--
--Bryan
For your safety and protection, this sig. has been thoroughly
tested on laboratory animals.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 21:39:52 -0700, Graham > wrote:

>On 2021-02-18 8:41 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:
>> *About a month there was some discussion about E-readers and some of
>> the posts convinced me that I should get one. I ordered on for curbside
>> pickup and was all set to download a book or two from the library, but
>> the I had a stack of real books from the library that I thought I should
>> finish first. Thanks to the pandemic it is a pain in the butt to find
>> books books at the library. OTOH the aren't in any hurry to get them
>> back, so you can keep them as long as you want. I finally finished the
>> last book the other day, so yesterday I downloaded an e-book.
>>
>>
>> I took it to bed with me and was able to read without having to have a
>> light on. I love the way I can adjust the brightness, the font, the font
>> size. My biggest problem is that if I accidentally touch the screen the
>> wrong way it turns the page.
>>
>> It is a lot easier to use a computer to search for available books. I
>> can download them to the computer and then transfer them to the reader.
>>
>I haven't worked out how to do this yet. I download directly to my Kobo
>but if I were to reserve a book at the library, I would have to use the
>desktop as an intermediary.

I use my computer to download and also use bookbub.com which sends me
a couple of bargain choices per day. Books usually around 1.99 each
and I have often read choices I would not have made any other way. I
imagine you know about gutenberg.org if you are looking for classics.

On 2/19/2021 12:19 AM, Mike Duffy wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 21:57:46 -0600, Hank Rogers wrote:
>
>> Have you read Bryan's book yet? It's free. Mike has one too.
>
> Thanks for the plug, Hank!
>
> I'm not sure if I beat out Bryan or not. The only ones who admitted to
> reading any of either is Gary and Pamela.
>
> I beat Bryan because at least one person read my book, but I lose to
> Bryan because the only person who read it says it was a waste of his time.

Actually Mike, I read your entire book very hastily only because I felt
forced to read it quickly after saying I would for so long.

At a quick glance, I don't see it in Bookmarks but if you would repost
the address, I'd like to give it a second try. Slower this time, at my
leisure.

Oh wait! I think I just found your link. Didn't recognize the title,
"Dog Day Afternoon."
http://mduffy.x10host.com/dogdayafte...#story_start\\

Is this correct?

I might just have a new opinion. My last review was hasty and maybe a
bit unfair.

On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 09:38:04 -0500, Gary wrote:


> http://mduffy.x10host.com/dogdayafternoon.htm
>
> Is this correct?

Yes.


> I might just have a new opinion. My last review was hasty and maybe a
> bit unfair.

Seriously, the intended audience is ~9-10 years old. Try reading it to a
youngster. Most adults will find it too juvenile.

On 2021-02-18 11:39 p.m., Graham wrote:
> On 2021-02-18 8:41 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:

>>
>> It is a lot easier to use a computer to search for available books. I
>> can download them to the computer and then transfer them to the reader.
>>
> I haven't worked out how to do this yet. I download directly to my Kobo
> but if I were to reserve a book at the library, I would have to use the
> desktop as an intermediary.
>
I have to confess that I had to move the ebook around a few times before
i found the right folder for it.


From the root directory of the Kobo select .Kobo and from there go to
Netstorage. Copy the ebook from you laptop to that directory.

On 2021-02-19 9:15 a.m., Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2021-02-18 11:39 p.m., Graham wrote:
>> On 2021-02-18 8:41 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:
>
>>>
>>> It is a lot easier to use a computer to search for available books. I
>>> can download them to the computer and then transfer them to the reader.
>>>
>> I haven't worked out how to do this yet. I download directly to my Kobo
>> but if I were to reserve a book at the library, I would have to use the
>> desktop as an intermediary.
>>
> I have to confess that I had to move the ebook around a few times before
> i found the right folder for it.
>
>
> From the root directory of the Kobo select .Kobo and from there go to
> Netstorage.Â* Copy the ebook from you laptop to that directory.
>

Thanks! The annoying thing is that although e-books are popular through
the public library, when I have asked for help, no-one has a clue about
e-reader operations.

On 2021-02-19 4:43 a.m., BryanGSimmons wrote:
> On 2/18/2021 9:41 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> Â*Â*About a month there was some discussion about E-readers and some of
>> the posts convinced me that I should get one. I ordered on for
>> curbside pickup and was all set to download a book or two from the
>> library, but the I had a stack of real books from the library that I
>> thought I should finish first. Thanks to the pandemic it is a pain in
>> the butt to find books books at the library. OTOH the aren't in any
>> hurry to get them back, so you can keep them as long as you want. I
>> finally finished the last book the other day, so yesterday I
>> downloaded an e-book.
>>
>>
>> I took it to bed with me and was able to read without having to have a
>> light on. I love the way I can adjust the brightness, the font, the
>> font size. My biggest problem is that if I accidentally touch the
>> screen the wrong way it turns the page.
>>
>> It is a lot easier to use a computer to search for available books. I
>> can download them to the computer and then transfer them to the reader.
>>
>> I can this thing getting a lot of use.
>
> You could read my book.
>
Sure,... email it to me

On 2021-02-19 11:35 a.m., Graham wrote:
> On 2021-02-19 9:15 a.m., Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2021-02-18 11:39 p.m., Graham wrote:
esktop as an intermediary.
>>>
>> I have to confess that I had to move the ebook around a few times
>> before i found the right folder for it.
>>
>>
>> Â*From the root directory of the Kobo select .Kobo and from there go to
>> Netstorage.Â* Copy the ebook from you laptop to that directory.
>>
>
> Thanks! The annoying thing is that although e-books are popular through
> the public library, when I have asked for help, no-one has a clue about
> e-reader operations.

Glad I could help. I thought that I was going to have to come here
asking for help. I found it really difficul to navigate my way to the
library through Overdrive on the Kobo, so I tried it on the laptop, but
then I had copied it to the wrong folder. I connected the |USB cable to
computer, turned the E-Reader on and Connect to Computer when prompted,
and then used File Explorer to copy it to different folders until it
suddenly worked in that one.

On 2021-02-19 10:51 a.m., Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2021-02-19 11:35 a.m., Graham wrote:
>> On 2021-02-19 9:15 a.m., Dave Smith wrote:
>>> On 2021-02-18 11:39 p.m., Graham wrote:
> esktop as an intermediary.
>>>>
>>> I have to confess that I had to move the ebook around a few times
>>> before i found the right folder for it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Â*From the root directory of the Kobo select .Kobo and from there go
>>> to Netstorage.Â* Copy the ebook from you laptop to that directory.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks! The annoying thing is that although e-books are popular
>> through the public library, when I have asked for help, no-one has a
>> clue about e-reader operations.
>
> Glad I could help. I thought that I was going to have to come here
> asking for help.Â* I found it really difficul to navigate my way to the
> library through Overdrive on the Kobo, so I tried it on the laptop, but
> then I had copied it to the wrong folder. I connected the |USB cable to
> computer, turned the E-Reader on and Connect to Computer when prompted,
> and then used File Explorer to copy it to different folders until it
> suddenly worked inÂ* that one.

Yes it is a bit awkward to navigate to overdrive as Kobo wants you to
buy. When you first "press" Overdrive, the Kobo page appears but there
is a drop-down that reveals the OD route.
I bought 3 novels the other day as the waiting lists for the e-versions
at the library were way too long.
I tried to download one e-edition but despite help from the library, it
wouldn't download. It was a fault with them and once they corrected it,
I tried again by which time others had discovered the book and the
waiting list was long. They clearly had experienced the same problem.

Mike Duffy wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 09:38:04 -0500, Gary wrote:
>
>
>> http://mduffy.x10host.com/dogdayafternoon.htm
>>
>> Is this correct?
>
> Yes.
>
>
>> I might just have a new opinion. My last review was hasty and maybe a
>> bit unfair.
>
> Seriously, the intended audience is ~9-10 years old. Try reading it to a
> youngster. Most adults will find it too juvenile.
>

What I'd like to see is a children's book written by Popeye.

On 2/19/2021 3:36 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
> Mike Duffy wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 09:38:04 -0500, Gary wrote:
>>
>>
>>> http://mduffy.x10host.com/dogdayafternoon.htm
>>>
>>> Is this correct?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>>> I might just have a new opinion. My last review was hasty and maybe a
>>> bit unfair.
>>
>> Seriously, the intended audience is ~9-10 years old. Try reading it to a
>> youngster. Most adults will find it too juvenile.
>>
>
> What I'd like to see is a children's book written by Popeye.
>
>
/ \ I WONDER IF THE MOVIE "CRACK ADDICT"
( Y ) IS ABOUT WHAT I THINK IT'S ABOUT
\ | /

Graham wrote:
> I bought 3 novels the other day as the waiting lists for the e-versions
> at the library were way too long.
> I tried to download one e-edition but despite help from the library, it
> wouldn't download. It was a fault with them and once they corrected it,
> I tried again by which time others had discovered the book and the
> waiting list was long. They clearly had experienced the same problem.

This sounds so odd. Libraries have waiting lists for E-books? WTH?
One would think that you could quickly download an ebook with no waiting
times.

On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 9:24:24 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> Graham wrote:
> > I bought 3 novels the other day as the waiting lists for the e-versions
> > at the library were way too long.
> > I tried to download one e-edition but despite help from the library, it
> > wouldn't download. It was a fault with them and once they corrected it,
> > I tried again by which time others had discovered the book and the
> > waiting list was long. They clearly had experienced the same problem.
> This sounds so odd. Libraries have waiting lists for E-books? WTH?
> One would think that you could quickly download an ebook with no waiting
> times.

The licensing rights to e-books are similar to owning a physical copy of
the book. Just as the library would have to buy, say, 10 copies in order for
10 patrons to be able to check it out, so too they have to buy 10 licenses
for 10 simultaneous uses of an e-book.

Cindy Hamilton

On 2021-02-21 9:24 a.m., Gary wrote:
> Â*Graham wrote:
>> I bought 3 novels the other day as the waiting lists for the e-versions
>> at the library were way too long.
>> I tried to download one e-edition but despite help from the library, it
>> wouldn't download. It was a fault with them and once they corrected it,
>> I tried again by which time others had discovered the book and the
>> waiting list was long. They clearly had experienced the same problem.
>
> This sounds so odd. Libraries have waiting lists for E-books? WTH?
> One would think that you could quickly download an ebook with no waiting
> times.
>

Libraries buy licenses to a certain number of "copies" so only a certain
number can be on loan at any time.

I am kinda surprised at the cost of e-books. There must be something I
don't know about the cost of producing them. It costs quite a bit print
and bind books. They are heavy, so there are significant shipping costs.
Then there is the cost of returning unsold or damaged books. Those
costs do not apply to e-books. The savings of buying an e-book is
nowhere near what I expected to there to be.

On 2/21/2021 7:12 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2021-02-21 9:24 a.m., Gary wrote:
>> Â*Graham wrote:
>>> I bought 3 novels the other day as the waiting lists for the e-versions
>>> at the library were way too long.
>>> I tried to download one e-edition but despite help from the library, it
>>> wouldn't download. It was a fault with them and once they corrected it,
>>> I tried again by which time others had discovered the book and the
>>> waiting list was long. They clearly had experienced the same problem.
>>
>> This sounds so odd. Libraries have waiting lists for E-books? WTH?
>> One would think that you could quickly download an ebook with no waiting
>> times.
>>
>
> Libraries buy licenses to a certain number of "copies" so only a certain
> number can be on loan at any time.
>
> I am kinda surprised at the cost of e-books. There must be something I
> don't know about the cost of producing them. It costs quite a bit print
> and bind books. They are heavy, so there are significant shipping costs.
> Then there is the cost of returning unsold or damaged books. Those
> costs do not apply to e-books. The savings of buying an e-book is
> nowhere near what I expected to there to be.
>


It is all about what the market will bear. If an e-book is preferred by
many, a publisher's inclination would be to charge more for it. But
they would not be able to stand the howls. So, they price it a bit
below a print version, and more goes into their pocket anyway.

On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 10:12:50 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2021-02-21 9:24 a.m., Gary wrote:
> > Graham wrote:
> >> I bought 3 novels the other day as the waiting lists for the e-versions
> >> at the library were way too long.
> >> I tried to download one e-edition but despite help from the library, it
> >> wouldn't download. It was a fault with them and once they corrected it,
> >> I tried again by which time others had discovered the book and the
> >> waiting list was long. They clearly had experienced the same problem.
> >
> > This sounds so odd. Libraries have waiting lists for E-books? WTH?
> > One would think that you could quickly download an ebook with no waiting
> > times.
> >
> Libraries buy licenses to a certain number of "copies" so only a certain
> number can be on loan at any time.
>
> I am kinda surprised at the cost of e-books. There must be something I
> don't know about the cost of producing them. It costs quite a bit print
> and bind books. They are heavy, so there are significant shipping costs.
> Then there is the cost of returning unsold or damaged books. Those
> costs do not apply to e-books. The savings of buying an e-book is
> nowhere near what I expected to there to be.

1. The costs to print books are really not that much compared to the
overhead of publishing houses, marketing, etc. For every bestseller they
produce, they publish a bunch of poor-to-mediocre sellers. And they
also have to spend a bunch evaluating and rejecting manuscripts.

2. As Taxed and Spent said, "because they can" (I paraphrase).

Cindy Hamilton

On 2021-02-21 10:26 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 10:12:50 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> I am kinda surprised at the cost of e-books. There must be something I
>> don't know about the cost of producing them. It costs quite a bit print
>> and bind books. They are heavy, so there are significant shipping costs.
>> Then there is the cost of returning unsold or damaged books. Those
>> costs do not apply to e-books. The savings of buying an e-book is
>> nowhere near what I expected to there to be.
>
> 1. The costs to print books are really not that much compared to the
> overhead of publishing houses, marketing, etc. For every bestseller they
> produce, they publish a bunch of poor-to-mediocre sellers. And they
> also have to spend a bunch evaluating and rejecting manuscripts.
>
> 2. As Taxed and Spent said, "because they can" (I paraphrase).
>
>

We have a friend who has a publishing company. She told us that they
have to accept returned books. So when someone goes to Chaptersm grabs a
book off the shelf and takes it over to the attacked StarBucks and slops
coffee on it, the publisher takes a hit.

On 2021-02-21 8:12 a.m., Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2021-02-21 9:24 a.m., Gary wrote:
>> Â*Â*Graham wrote:
>>> I bought 3 novels the other day as the waiting lists for the e-versions
>>> at the library were way too long.
>>> I tried to download one e-edition but despite help from the library, it
>>> wouldn't download. It was a fault with them and once they corrected it,
>>> I tried again by which time others had discovered the book and the
>>> waiting list was long. They clearly had experienced the same problem.
>>
>> This sounds so odd. Libraries have waiting lists for E-books? WTH?
>> One would think that you could quickly download an ebook with no
>> waiting times.
>>
>
> Libraries buy licenses to a certain number of "copies" so only a certain
> number can be on loan at any time.
>
> I am kinda surprised at the cost of e-books. There must be something I
> don't know about the cost of producing them. It costs quite a bit print
> and bind books. They are heavy, so there are significant shipping costs.
> Then there is the cost of returning unsold or damaged books.Â* Those
> costs do not apply to e-books. The savings of buying an e-book is
> nowhere near what I expected to there to be.
>
Even Amazon can't discount e-books as the price is "set in stone" by the
publisher. When they are discounted, it is the publisher who is doing
the price cutting.

On Friday, February 19, 2021 at 8:38:15 AM UTC-6, Gary wrote:
> On 2/19/2021 12:19 AM, Mike Duffy wrote:
> > On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 21:57:46 -0600, Hank Rogers wrote:
> >
> >> Have you read Bryan's book yet? It's free. Mike has one too.
> >
> > Thanks for the plug, Hank!
> >
> > I'm not sure if I beat out Bryan or not. The only ones who admitted to
> > reading any of either is Gary and Pamela.
> >
> > I beat Bryan because at least one person read my book, but I lose to
> > Bryan because the only person who read it says it was a waste of his time.
>
It was never a competition.
>
> Actually Mike, I read your entire book very hastily only because I felt
> forced to read it quickly after saying I would for so long.
>
You didn't make that mistake with mine.

--Bryan

Graham wrote:
> On 2021-02-21 8:12 a.m., Dave Smith wrote:
> > On 2021-02-21 9:24 a.m., Gary wrote:
> >> Graham wrote:
> >>> I bought 3 novels the other day as the waiting lists for the e-versions
> >>> at the library were way too long.
> >>> I tried to download one e-edition but despite help from the library, it
> >>> wouldn't download. It was a fault with them and once they corrected it,
> >>> I tried again by which time others had discovered the book and the
> >>> waiting list was long. They clearly had experienced the same problem.
> >>
> >> This sounds so odd. Libraries have waiting lists for E-books? WTH?
> >> One would think that you could quickly download an ebook with no
> >> waiting times.
> >>
> >
> > Libraries buy licenses to a certain number of "copies" so only a certain
> > number can be on loan at any time.
> >
> > I am kinda surprised at the cost of e-books. There must be something I
> > don't know about the cost of producing them. It costs quite a bit print
> > and bind books. They are heavy, so there are significant shipping costs..
> > Then there is the cost of returning unsold or damaged books. Those
> > costs do not apply to e-books. The savings of buying an e-book is
> > nowhere near what I expected to there to be.
> >
> Even Amazon can't discount e-books as the price is "set in stone" by the
> publisher. When they are discounted, it is the publisher who is doing
> the price cutting.


If I choose slower shipping on Amazon, I get an "e - credit" for music, movie and book downloads, it's a buck. I've purchased several e-books at 'discount' that way, but I am still old - fashioned and prefer a physical book....and I prefer movies in disc - DVD/Blu-ray - form...

--
Best
Greg

On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 9:26:40 AM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 10:12:50 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
> > On 2021-02-21 9:24 a.m., Gary wrote:
> > > Graham wrote:
> > >> I bought 3 novels the other day as the waiting lists for the e-versions
> > >> at the library were way too long.
> > >> I tried to download one e-edition but despite help from the library, it
> > >> wouldn't download. It was a fault with them and once they corrected it,
> > >> I tried again by which time others had discovered the book and the
> > >> waiting list was long. They clearly had experienced the same problem.
> > >
> > > This sounds so odd. Libraries have waiting lists for E-books? WTH?
> > > One would think that you could quickly download an ebook with no waiting
> > > times.
> > >
> > Libraries buy licenses to a certain number of "copies" so only a certain
> > number can be on loan at any time.
> >
> > I am kinda surprised at the cost of e-books. There must be something I
> > don't know about the cost of producing them. It costs quite a bit print
> > and bind books. They are heavy, so there are significant shipping costs.
> > Then there is the cost of returning unsold or damaged books. Those
> > costs do not apply to e-books. The savings of buying an e-book is
> > nowhere near what I expected to there to be.
> 1. The costs to print books are really not that much compared to the
> overhead of publishing houses, marketing, etc. For every bestseller they
> produce, they publish a bunch of poor-to-mediocre sellers. And they
> also have to spend a bunch evaluating and rejecting manuscripts.
>
> 2. As Taxed and Spent said, "because they can" (I paraphrase).
>
Printing costs actually are pretty high. If they weren't, the marketplace
would offer self publishers prices lower than they do. The best price
I've found to print my book is 125 copies for $1312, which is about
$10.50 a copy.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 12:06:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 9:26:40 AM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 10:12:50 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
> > > On 2021-02-21 9:24 a.m., Gary wrote:
> > > > Graham wrote:
> > > >> I bought 3 novels the other day as the waiting lists for the e-versions
> > > >> at the library were way too long.
> > > >> I tried to download one e-edition but despite help from the library, it
> > > >> wouldn't download. It was a fault with them and once they corrected it,
> > > >> I tried again by which time others had discovered the book and the
> > > >> waiting list was long. They clearly had experienced the same problem.
> > > >
> > > > This sounds so odd. Libraries have waiting lists for E-books? WTH?
> > > > One would think that you could quickly download an ebook with no waiting
> > > > times.
> > > >
> > > Libraries buy licenses to a certain number of "copies" so only a certain
> > > number can be on loan at any time.
> > >
> > > I am kinda surprised at the cost of e-books. There must be something I
> > > don't know about the cost of producing them. It costs quite a bit print
> > > and bind books. They are heavy, so there are significant shipping costs.
> > > Then there is the cost of returning unsold or damaged books. Those
> > > costs do not apply to e-books. The savings of buying an e-book is
> > > nowhere near what I expected to there to be.
> > 1. The costs to print books are really not that much compared to the
> > overhead of publishing houses, marketing, etc. For every bestseller they
> > produce, they publish a bunch of poor-to-mediocre sellers. And they
> > also have to spend a bunch evaluating and rejecting manuscripts.
> >
> > 2. As Taxed and Spent said, "because they can" (I paraphrase).
> >
> Printing costs actually are pretty high. If they weren't, the marketplace
> would offer self publishers prices lower than they do. The best price
> I've found to print my book is 125 copies for $1312, which is about
> $10.50 a copy.

Much of that cost is setup. Once you get into tens of thousands of
copies, the price per copy is appreciably lower.


Cindy Hamilton

On 2021-02-21 12:29 p.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 12:06:25 PM UTC-5,
>> Printing costs actually are pretty high. If they weren't, the marketplace
>> would offer self publishers prices lower than they do. The best price
>> I've found to print my book is 125 copies for $1312, which is about
>> $10.50 a copy.
>
> Much of that cost is setup. Once you get into tens of thousands of
> copies, the price per copy is appreciably lower.
>
Curiously, the more popular a book is.... measured in sales, the more
they charger, supply and demand and all that. The static costs of the
setup are all covered the rest is marginal costs.
With an e-book, it is just a matter of sitting back and letting people
download... for a price.

On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 11:29:59 AM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 12:06:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 9:26:40 AM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 10:12:50 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
> > > > On 2021-02-21 9:24 a.m., Gary wrote:
> > > > > Graham wrote:
> > > > >> I bought 3 novels the other day as the waiting lists for the e-versions
> > > > >> at the library were way too long.
> > > > >> I tried to download one e-edition but despite help from the library, it
> > > > >> wouldn't download. It was a fault with them and once they corrected it,
> > > > >> I tried again by which time others had discovered the book and the
> > > > >> waiting list was long. They clearly had experienced the same problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > This sounds so odd. Libraries have waiting lists for E-books? WTH?
> > > > > One would think that you could quickly download an ebook with no waiting
> > > > > times.
> > > > >
> > > > Libraries buy licenses to a certain number of "copies" so only a certain
> > > > number can be on loan at any time.
> > > >
> > > > I am kinda surprised at the cost of e-books. There must be something I
> > > > don't know about the cost of producing them. It costs quite a bit print
> > > > and bind books. They are heavy, so there are significant shipping costs.
> > > > Then there is the cost of returning unsold or damaged books. Those
> > > > costs do not apply to e-books. The savings of buying an e-book is
> > > > nowhere near what I expected to there to be.
> > > 1. The costs to print books are really not that much compared to the
> > > overhead of publishing houses, marketing, etc. For every bestseller they
> > > produce, they publish a bunch of poor-to-mediocre sellers. And they
> > > also have to spend a bunch evaluating and rejecting manuscripts.
> > >
> > > 2. As Taxed and Spent said, "because they can" (I paraphrase).
> > >
> > Printing costs actually are pretty high. If they weren't, the marketplace
> > would offer self publishers prices lower than they do. The best price
> > I've found to print my book is 125 copies for $1312, which is about
> > $10.50 a copy.
> Much of that cost is setup. Once you get into tens of thousands of
> copies, the price per copy is appreciably lower.
>
Very little of the cost is setup. The quantity price breaks are rather small.
Sure when you get to giant runs there is more setup costs because pages
are printed offset, but printing is still expensive.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

--Bryan

On 2021-02-21 11:12 a.m., Bryan Simmons wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 11:29:59 AM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 12:06:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>>> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 9:26:40 AM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 10:12:50 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-02-21 9:24 a.m., Gary wrote:
>>>>>> Graham wrote:
>>>>>>> I bought 3 novels the other day as the waiting lists for the e-versions
>>>>>>> at the library were way too long.
>>>>>>> I tried to download one e-edition but despite help from the library, it
>>>>>>> wouldn't download. It was a fault with them and once they corrected it,
>>>>>>> I tried again by which time others had discovered the book and the
>>>>>>> waiting list was long. They clearly had experienced the same problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This sounds so odd. Libraries have waiting lists for E-books? WTH?
>>>>>> One would think that you could quickly download an ebook with no waiting
>>>>>> times.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Libraries buy licenses to a certain number of "copies" so only a certain
>>>>> number can be on loan at any time.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am kinda surprised at the cost of e-books. There must be something I
>>>>> don't know about the cost of producing them. It costs quite a bit print
>>>>> and bind books. They are heavy, so there are significant shipping costs.
>>>>> Then there is the cost of returning unsold or damaged books. Those
>>>>> costs do not apply to e-books. The savings of buying an e-book is
>>>>> nowhere near what I expected to there to be.
>>>> 1. The costs to print books are really not that much compared to the
>>>> overhead of publishing houses, marketing, etc. For every bestseller they
>>>> produce, they publish a bunch of poor-to-mediocre sellers. And they
>>>> also have to spend a bunch evaluating and rejecting manuscripts.
>>>>
>>>> 2. As Taxed and Spent said, "because they can" (I paraphrase).
>>>>
>>> Printing costs actually are pretty high. If they weren't, the marketplace
>>> would offer self publishers prices lower than they do. The best price
>>> I've found to print my book is 125 copies for $1312, which is about
>>> $10.50 a copy.
>> Much of that cost is setup. Once you get into tens of thousands of
>> copies, the price per copy is appreciably lower.
>>
> Very little of the cost is setup. The quantity price breaks are rather small.
> Sure when you get to giant runs there is more setup costs because pages
> are printed offset, but printing is still expensive.

Which is why so much of it is done in China!

On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 8:12:36 AM UTC-10, wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 11:29:59 AM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 12:06:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 9:26:40 AM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 10:12:50 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
> > > > > On 2021-02-21 9:24 a.m., Gary wrote:
> > > > > > Graham wrote:
> > > > > >> I bought 3 novels the other day as the waiting lists for the e-versions
> > > > > >> at the library were way too long.
> > > > > >> I tried to download one e-edition but despite help from the library, it
> > > > > >> wouldn't download. It was a fault with them and once they corrected it,
> > > > > >> I tried again by which time others had discovered the book and the
> > > > > >> waiting list was long. They clearly had experienced the same problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This sounds so odd. Libraries have waiting lists for E-books? WTH?
> > > > > > One would think that you could quickly download an ebook with no waiting
> > > > > > times.
> > > > > >
> > > > > Libraries buy licenses to a certain number of "copies" so only a certain
> > > > > number can be on loan at any time.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am kinda surprised at the cost of e-books. There must be something I
> > > > > don't know about the cost of producing them. It costs quite a bit print
> > > > > and bind books. They are heavy, so there are significant shipping costs.
> > > > > Then there is the cost of returning unsold or damaged books. Those
> > > > > costs do not apply to e-books. The savings of buying an e-book is
> > > > > nowhere near what I expected to there to be.
> > > > 1. The costs to print books are really not that much compared to the
> > > > overhead of publishing houses, marketing, etc. For every bestseller they
> > > > produce, they publish a bunch of poor-to-mediocre sellers. And they
> > > > also have to spend a bunch evaluating and rejecting manuscripts.
> > > >
> > > > 2. As Taxed and Spent said, "because they can" (I paraphrase).
> > > >
> > > Printing costs actually are pretty high. If they weren't, the marketplace
> > > would offer self publishers prices lower than they do. The best price
> > > I've found to print my book is 125 copies for $1312, which is about
> > > $10.50 a copy.
> > Much of that cost is setup. Once you get into tens of thousands of
> > copies, the price per copy is appreciably lower.
> >
> Very little of the cost is setup. The quantity price breaks are rather small.
> Sure when you get to giant runs there is more setup costs because pages
> are printed offset, but printing is still expensive.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
>
> --Bryan

For short runs, it's cheaper to use a copier. For longer runs, you'd be dumb to use a copier. I forgot where the break even point is but the amount of copies desired is always important - if money is a consideration.

On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 8:20:03 AM UTC-10, Graham wrote:
> On 2021-02-21 11:12 a.m., Bryan Simmons wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 11:29:59 AM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 12:06:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 9:26:40 AM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>>> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 10:12:50 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
> >>>>> On 2021-02-21 9:24 a.m., Gary wrote:
> >>>>>> Graham wrote:
> >>>>>>> I bought 3 novels the other day as the waiting lists for the e-versions
> >>>>>>> at the library were way too long.
> >>>>>>> I tried to download one e-edition but despite help from the library, it
> >>>>>>> wouldn't download. It was a fault with them and once they corrected it,
> >>>>>>> I tried again by which time others had discovered the book and the
> >>>>>>> waiting list was long. They clearly had experienced the same problem.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This sounds so odd. Libraries have waiting lists for E-books? WTH?
> >>>>>> One would think that you could quickly download an ebook with no waiting
> >>>>>> times.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Libraries buy licenses to a certain number of "copies" so only a certain
> >>>>> number can be on loan at any time.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am kinda surprised at the cost of e-books. There must be something I
> >>>>> don't know about the cost of producing them. It costs quite a bit print
> >>>>> and bind books. They are heavy, so there are significant shipping costs.
> >>>>> Then there is the cost of returning unsold or damaged books. Those
> >>>>> costs do not apply to e-books. The savings of buying an e-book is
> >>>>> nowhere near what I expected to there to be.
> >>>> 1. The costs to print books are really not that much compared to the
> >>>> overhead of publishing houses, marketing, etc. For every bestseller they
> >>>> produce, they publish a bunch of poor-to-mediocre sellers. And they
> >>>> also have to spend a bunch evaluating and rejecting manuscripts.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2. As Taxed and Spent said, "because they can" (I paraphrase).
> >>>>
> >>> Printing costs actually are pretty high. If they weren't, the marketplace
> >>> would offer self publishers prices lower than they do. The best price
> >>> I've found to print my book is 125 copies for $1312, which is about
> >>> $10.50 a copy.
> >> Much of that cost is setup. Once you get into tens of thousands of
> >> copies, the price per copy is appreciably lower.
> >>
> > Very little of the cost is setup. The quantity price breaks are rather small.
> > Sure when you get to giant runs there is more setup costs because pages
> > are printed offset, but printing is still expensive.
> Which is why so much of it is done in China!
A client of mine did his printing in China. He'd be dumb to do otherwise. It was a book of pictures of fishes. He took all of them himself. He told me that on the day he got the first copies in, the book was already outdated. Such are things in the world of fish.
https://www.amazon.com/Reef-Shore-Fi.../dp/1929054033

On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 10:03:18 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 9:24:24 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> > Graham wrote:
> > > I bought 3 novels the other day as the waiting lists for the e-versions
> > > at the library were way too long.
> > > I tried to download one e-edition but despite help from the library, it
> > > wouldn't download. It was a fault with them and once they corrected it,
> > > I tried again by which time others had discovered the book and the
> > > waiting list was long. They clearly had experienced the same problem.
> > This sounds so odd. Libraries have waiting lists for E-books? WTH?
> > One would think that you could quickly download an ebook with no waiting
> > times.
> The licensing rights to e-books are similar to owning a physical copy of
> the book. Just as the library would have to buy, say, 10 copies in order for
> 10 patrons to be able to check it out, so too they have to buy 10 licenses
> for 10 simultaneous uses of an e-book.

Now yes, but five minutes from now? Laws and contracts are always changing.

On Monday, February 22, 2021 at 12:43:47 PM UTC-5, bruce bowser wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 10:03:18 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 9:24:24 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> > > Graham wrote:
> > > > I bought 3 novels the other day as the waiting lists for the e-versions
> > > > at the library were way too long.
> > > > I tried to download one e-edition but despite help from the library, it
> > > > wouldn't download. It was a fault with them and once they corrected it,
> > > > I tried again by which time others had discovered the book and the
> > > > waiting list was long. They clearly had experienced the same problem.
> > > This sounds so odd. Libraries have waiting lists for E-books? WTH?
> > > One would think that you could quickly download an ebook with no waiting
> > > times.
> > The licensing rights to e-books are similar to owning a physical copy of
> > the book. Just as the library would have to buy, say, 10 copies in order for
> > 10 patrons to be able to check it out, so too they have to buy 10 licenses
> > for 10 simultaneous uses of an e-book.
> Now yes, but five minutes from now? Laws and contracts are always changing.

It's the same law that says you can't xerox 100 copies of a book and give
them to your friends. That's not likely to change in the next five minutes.

Cindy Hamilton