On 3/16/2021 8:10 AM, Gary wrote:
> On 3/15/2021 2:24 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 3/15/2021 1:22 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I hate plastic, and avoid it at all costs.* The only time I cheat with
>>> plastic is for freezing things.* I buy and store in glass whenever I
>>> can, including glass Heinz ketchup bottles.
>>
>> Biggest problem with plastics is people.* Too many people are slobs.
>>
>> Properly used and handled there should be little waste, nothing floating
>> in the oceans. Most can be recycled or used as a fuel to generate
>> electricity. Most plastics contain 18,000 Btu per pound.
>
> All the plastics in the oceans are way beyond normal for individual
> people to be causing the problem.
>
> I've always suspected the trash disposal industry and they should be
> investigated.
>

Rivers run into the oceans. Where is this coming from?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-43845632

Lakes too
https://tinyurl.com/dmu2mpx9

It is world wide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwv-...hannel=VOANews

It is people that are allowing this to happen. Starts at home but could
be commercial trash haulers too.

On 2021-03-16 8:50 a.m., songbird wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
> ...
>> Yeah, but songbird *freezes* things in glass jars. I'll store lots of
>> things in the refrigerator in glass but I will not freeze things like
>> soups or stock in glass jars. Nope.
>
> if you leave space for expansion good quality jars won't break.
> i use canning jars. no problem at all.
>
> i did have to train Mom to not overfill jars because she'd do
> that and then i'd have to rescue contents from cracked jars. oh
> well. just rinse the frozen chunks off, warm them up and eat
> them as i would any other item.
>


I would not eat anything that came from a broken jar. I don't care if it
has been rinsed and put through a sieve.

Dave Smith wrote:
....
> I would not eat anything that came from a broken jar. I don't care if it
> has been rinsed and put through a sieve.

*shrug* i don't waste food if i can help it. when
it has happened it has been a solid chunk of frozen food.
rinse it off with hot water and anything on the outside
falls away. no interior contamination possible.

i'm not dead yet - i guess i'm doing something right
enough...


songbird

On 3/16/2021 11:29 AM, songbird wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
> ....
>> I would not eat anything that came from a broken jar. I don't care if it
>> has been rinsed and put through a sieve.
>
> *shrug* i don't waste food if i can help it. when
> it has happened it has been a solid chunk of frozen food.
> rinse it off with hot water and anything on the outside
> falls away. no interior contamination possible.
>
> i'm not dead yet - i guess i'm doing something right
> enough...
>
>
> songbird

I would have saved it too, but that's just me. I can't stand waste.

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 11:30:10 AM UTC-4, songbird wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
> ...
> > I would not eat anything that came from a broken jar. I don't care if it
> > has been rinsed and put through a sieve.
> *shrug* i don't waste food if i can help it. when
> it has happened it has been a solid chunk of frozen food.
> rinse it off with hot water and anything on the outside
> falls away. no interior contamination possible.
>
> i'm not dead yet - i guess i'm doing something right
> enough...

The two are mutually exclusive, you know.

On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 14:47:18 -0600, Graham > wrote:

>On 2021-03-15 2:30 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2021-03-15 2:24 p.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>> Biggest problem with plastics is people.* Too many people are slobs.
>>>
>>> Properly used and handled there should be little waste, nothing
>>> floating in the oceans. Most can be recycled or used as a fuel to
>>> generate electricity. Most plastics contain 18,000 Btu per pound.
>>
>> The single biggest cause of litter around here is plastic water bottles.
>> Personally I have little use for bottled water and can't figure out why
>> people insist on buying those small bottles instead of drinking tap
>> water. Out local tap water is excellent. The least they could do would
>> be to dispose of them into a proper receptacle instead of throwing them
>> onto the shoulder of the road or into a ditch.

Most tap water isn't fit to drink, can travel through miles of ancient
corroded pipe before getting to your tap, and usually treated with
chlorine. If you have well water from your own well you're fortunate,
costs little to add a reverse osmosis filter and have cleaner water
than bottled... that's what we did. In fact the plastic bottles of
water one buys are filled from a rubber hose at Joe's gas staton.
Those replaceable cartridge filters one adds to their tap are no
better than a cheapo aquarium filter.

>> I take water with me when I am kayaking, bicycling or out on the
>> motorcycle, and sometimes when I am travelling in the car, but I fill up
>> re-usable bottles at home.

We use refillable plastic bottles but we fill them with our RO water.

>More than once, when out on my bike, I've had to discard a bottle of tap
>water due to the unpleasant taste. Standing the water in advance has had
>little effect. The degree of chlorination seems to be unpredictable so I
>fill my bike bottles with commercially bottled water.

Install an RO filter, a very easy install and costs little, a lot less
than buying bottled water that's no better than ordinary tap water...
an RO filter costs about 5¢/gallon.
We also treat all our water with UV light. All the air in our house
is treated with UV light too, the UV lamps are in our central AC unit,
when the AC isn't calling for cool the blower switches to Low so all
the air in our house is constantly exposed to UV... we don't get colds
or skin infections from germy bath water.
Most people's tap water and the air in their home is filthy with
germs, doctors won't tell you about UV lamps for air and water
treatment, they'd lose too much income. The virus that's going around
is primarily transmitted via air and water... no one will tell you,
especially not our imbecilic grubermint leaders, most of whom can't
zip their own fly or hook their own bra.
I it's very inexpensive to install UV lamps for treating water and
air. Most people who have the skill to use a paper stapler can
install the units themself and they are readily available on line from
Amazon, etc. Anyone who has central air has it serviced each year
(hopefully), their techies can install the UV lamps, and replace them
as necessasary. The UV lamps are a bit pricey, ~$100 per, and last
about 2 years. They need to be disposed of properly as they contain
mercury, but an extra $20 a year won't bankrupt anyone who pays for a
cell phone.
We like knowing our water and air is sterile and clean of hazardous
chems.

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 1:51:45 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 14:47:18 -0600, Graham > wrote:
> >On 2021-03-15 2:30 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:
> >> On 2021-03-15 2:24 p.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>
> >>> Biggest problem with plastics is people. Too many people are slobs.
> >>>
> >>> Properly used and handled there should be little waste, nothing
> >>> floating in the oceans. Most can be recycled or used as a fuel to
> >>> generate electricity. Most plastics contain 18,000 Btu per pound.
> >>
> >> The single biggest cause of litter around here is plastic water bottles.
> >> Personally I have little use for bottled water and can't figure out why
> >> people insist on buying those small bottles instead of drinking tap
> >> water. Out local tap water is excellent. The least they could do would
> >> be to dispose of them into a proper receptacle instead of throwing them
> >> onto the shoulder of the road or into a ditch.
> Most tap water isn't fit to drink, can travel through miles of ancient
> corroded pipe before getting to your tap, and usually treated with
> chlorine. If you have well water from your own well you're fortunate,
> costs little to add a reverse osmosis filter and have cleaner water
> than bottled... that's what we did. In fact the plastic bottles of
> water one buys are filled from a rubber hose at Joe's gas staton.
> Those replaceable cartridge filters one adds to their tap are no
> better than a cheapo aquarium filter.
> >> I take water with me when I am kayaking, bicycling or out on the
> >> motorcycle, and sometimes when I am travelling in the car, but I fill up
> >> re-usable bottles at home.
> We use refillable plastic bottles but we fill them with our RO water.
> >More than once, when out on my bike, I've had to discard a bottle of tap
> >water due to the unpleasant taste. Standing the water in advance has had
> >little effect. The degree of chlorination seems to be unpredictable so I
> >fill my bike bottles with commercially bottled water.
> Install an RO filter, a very easy install and costs little, a lot less
> than buying bottled water that's no better than ordinary tap water...
> an RO filter costs about 5¢/gallon.
> We also treat all our water with UV light. All the air in our house
> is treated with UV light too, the UV lamps are in our central AC unit,
> when the AC isn't calling for cool the blower switches to Low so all
> the air in our house is constantly exposed to UV... we don't get colds
> or skin infections from germy bath water.
> Most people's tap water and the air in their home is filthy with
> germs, doctors won't tell you about UV lamps for air and water
> treatment, they'd lose too much income. The virus that's going around
> is primarily transmitted via air and water... no one will tell you,
> especially not our imbecilic grubermint leaders, most of whom can't
> zip their own fly or hook their own bra.
> I it's very inexpensive to install UV lamps for treating water and
> air. Most people who have the skill to use a paper stapler can
> install the units themself and they are readily available on line from
> Amazon, etc. Anyone who has central air has it serviced each year
> (hopefully), their techies can install the UV lamps, and replace them
> as necessasary. The UV lamps are a bit pricey, ~$100 per, and last
> about 2 years. They need to be disposed of properly as they contain
> mercury, but an extra $20 a year won't bankrupt anyone who pays for a
> cell phone.
> We like knowing our water and air is sterile and clean of hazardous
> chems.

Whole house (in-line) water filters are good. Some are only $30 from Lowe's or Home Depot.

On 3/16/2021 8:50 AM, songbird wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
> ...
>> Yeah, but songbird *freezes* things in glass jars. I'll store lots of
>> things in the refrigerator in glass but I will not freeze things like
>> soups or stock in glass jars. Nope.
>
> if you leave space for expansion good quality jars won't break.
> i use canning jars. no problem at all.
>
You have a garden so you use canning jars. I have ONE canning jar (a
friend gave it to me) which I use to store sugar-water in the
refrigerator for the hummingbird feeder.

Then again, I can't taste the plastic I store frozen food items in. The
sturdy plastic freezer containers I have (mostly Rubbermaid) last for
years.
> i did have to train Mom to not overfill jars because she'd do
> that and then i'd have to rescue contents from cracked jars. oh
> well. just rinse the frozen chunks off, warm them up and eat
> them as i would any other item.
>
>
> songbird
>
One shouldn't over-fill *any* container with liquid involved if it's
bound for the freezer.

Jill

On 3/16/2021 11:45 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 3/16/2021 11:29 AM, songbird wrote:
>> Dave Smith wrote:
>> ....
>>> I would not eat anything that came from a broken jar. I don't care if it
>>> has been rinsed and put through a sieve.
>>
>> Â*Â* *shrug*Â* i don't waste food if i can help it.Â* when
>> it has happened it has been a solid chunk of frozen food.
>> rinse it off with hot water and anything on the outside
>> falls away.Â* no interior contamination possible.
>>
>> Â*Â* i'm not dead yet - i guess i'm doing something right
>> enough...
>>
>>
>> Â*Â* songbird
>
> I would have saved it too, but that's just me.Â* I can't stand waste.

Food waste is a different different subject. Possible broken glass from
a cracked jar of homemade frozen soup? How does one get the still solid
chunk of soup out of the cracked canning jar? I wouldn't trust it,
that's why I won't put glass in the freezer. Feel free to do that if
you wish.

Jill

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> Raw pork? Cucumber peels? Lettuce ribs? What kind of crappy stock
> is that?

LOL. I've never used any of those for ingredients. You just thought of
the worst case scenario.

> This weekend I'll roast a turkey and make stock from it.

Turkey stock made from roasted is the best, imo.

On 3/16/2021 11:29 AM, songbird wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
> ...
>> I would not eat anything that came from a broken jar. I don't care if it
>> has been rinsed and put through a sieve.
>
> *shrug* i don't waste food if i can help it. when
> it has happened it has been a solid chunk of frozen food.
> rinse it off with hot water and anything on the outside
> falls away. no interior contamination possible.
>
> i'm not dead yet - i guess i'm doing something right
> enough...

I do have to agree with the others. I won't ever trust food that has
broken glass anywhere near it. Just a tiny amount to toss out and a big
problem if you ingest some.

On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 10:09:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > Raw pork? Cucumber peels? Lettuce ribs? What kind of crappy stock
> > is that?
> LOL. I've never used any of those for ingredients. You just thought of
> the worst case scenario.

Yes, I did a reductio ad absurdum on you.

Why do you always snip the pertinent parts?

>> So easy and little time to make your own though if you use a crock pot.
>> Takes about 10 minutes to put meat and saved veggie scraps in the pot.
>> Top it off with water, put on a lid and set it to low and forget about
>> it until the next morning.

What meat and veggie scraps do you assume but not express?

I don't generate meat scraps suitable for stock. A little fat off the
skinless, boneless chicken breasts is not going to make a stock.

I don't generate vegetable scraps suitable for stock. Anything I don't
use the first time around isn't fit to eat.

My crockpot isn't big enough to make diddly stock. I emulate Sheldon
and use a large stockpot. There's a reason it's called a "stockpot".

> > This weekend I'll roast a turkey and make stock from it.
> Turkey stock made from roasted is the best, imo.

When the grocery stores are no long stocking whole turkey (which is
a seasonal item around here), I'll switch to a mix of chicken parts and
turkey parts. I roast those and then make stock from them.

Cindy Hamilton

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 6:23:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On 3/16/2021 11:45 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
> > On 3/16/2021 11:29 AM, songbird wrote:
> >> Dave Smith wrote:
> >> ....
> >>> I would not eat anything that came from a broken jar. I don't care if it
> >>> has been rinsed and put through a sieve.
> >>
> >> *shrug* i don't waste food if i can help it. when
> >> it has happened it has been a solid chunk of frozen food.
> >> rinse it off with hot water and anything on the outside
> >> falls away. no interior contamination possible.
> >>
> >> i'm not dead yet - i guess i'm doing something right
> >> enough...
> >>
> >>
> >> songbird
> >
> > I would have saved it too, but that's just me. I can't stand waste.
> Food waste is a different different subject. Possible broken glass from
> a cracked jar of homemade frozen soup? How does one get the still solid
> chunk of soup out of the cracked canning jar? I wouldn't trust it,

Leave it outside so the cats in the neighborhood can pick through it. If there's no seasoning and still meat & bones left, they'll LOVE that when it melts

On 3/17/2021 10:50 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 10:09:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> Raw pork? Cucumber peels? Lettuce ribs? What kind of crappy stock
>>> is that?
>> LOL. I've never used any of those for ingredients. You just thought of
>> the worst case scenario.
>
> Yes, I did a reductio ad absurdum on you.
>
> Why do you always snip the pertinent parts?

I only snip things above that have nothing to do with what I respond to.
Ophy quotes everything and gets yelled at for doing so.
Can't win here in this Don Rickles ng.

>
>>> So easy and little time to make your own though if you use a crock pot.
>>> Takes about 10 minutes to put meat and saved veggie scraps in the pot.
>>> Top it off with water, put on a lid and set it to low and forget about
>>> it until the next morning.
>
> What meat and veggie scraps do you assume but not express?

I use whole meat pieces with skin and bones and veggie scraps. Best
example is onion ends. Whenever I use a new onion, I'll cut off both
ends. They go into a freezer bag for stock. A tomato that's getting
soft, I'll put in freezer for stock.

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 10:02:43 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>On 3/17/2021 10:50 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 10:09:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>> Raw pork? Cucumber peels? Lettuce ribs? What kind of crappy stock
>>>> is that?
>>> LOL. I've never used any of those for ingredients. You just thought of
>>> the worst case scenario.
>>
>> Yes, I did a reductio ad absurdum on you.
>>
>> Why do you always snip the pertinent parts?
>
>I only snip things above that have nothing to do with what I respond to.
>Ophy quotes everything and gets yelled at for doing so.
>Can't win here in this Don Rickles ng.
>
>>
>>>> So easy and little time to make your own though if you use a crock pot.
>>>> Takes about 10 minutes to put meat and saved veggie scraps in the pot.
>>>> Top it off with water, put on a lid and set it to low and forget about
>>>> it until the next morning.
>>
>> What meat and veggie scraps do you assume but not express?
>
>I use whole meat pieces with skin and bones and veggie scraps. Best
>example is onion ends. Whenever I use a new onion, I'll cut off both
>ends. They go into a freezer bag for stock. A tomato that's getting
>soft, I'll put in freezer for stock.

Mostly critter snacks and compost bucket fill. Seems like mostly you
freeze your garbage. Today two banana peels, an orange rind, and an
apple core got tossed outside, critters already ate it all.

On 3/18/2021 10:02 AM, Gary wrote:
> On 3/17/2021 10:50 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 10:09:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>> Raw pork? Cucumber peels? Lettuce ribs? What kind of crappy stock
>>>> is that?
>>> LOL. I've never used any of those for ingredients. You just thought of
>>> the worst case scenario.
>>
>> Yes, I did a reductio ad absurdum on you.
>>
>> Why do you always snip the pertinent parts?
>
> I only snip things above that have nothing to do with what I respond to.
> Ophy quotes everything and gets yelled at for doing so.
> Can't win here in this Don Rickles ng.
>
>>
>>>> So easy and little time to make your own though if you use a crock pot.
>>>> Takes about 10 minutes to put meat and saved veggie scraps in the pot.
>>>> Top it off with water, put on a lid and set it to low and forget about
>>>> it until the next morning.
>>
>> What meat and veggie scraps do you assume but not express?
>
> I use whole meat pieces with skin and bones and veggie scraps. Best
> example is onion ends. Whenever I use a new onion, I'll cut off both
> ends. They go into a freezer bag for stock. A tomato that's getting
> soft, I'll put in freezer for stock.
>
>
>
>
>
I do the same thing.

On 18/03/2021 14:02, Gary wrote:
> On 3/17/2021 10:50 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 10:09:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>> Raw pork? Cucumber peels? Lettuce ribs? What kind of crappy stock
>>>> is that?
>>> LOL. I've never used any of those for ingredients. You just thought of
>>> the worst case scenario.
>>
>> Yes, I did a reductio ad absurdum on you.
>>
>> Why do you always snip the pertinent parts?
>
> I only snip things above that have nothing to do with what I respond to.
> Ophy quotes everything and gets yelled at for doing so.

====

Exactly!!! We can't win so we ought to stop taking notice of those
dishing it out! I do!!

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 9:05:20 AM UTC-5, Ophelia wrote:
> On 18/03/2021 14:02, Gary wrote:
> > On 3/17/2021 10:50 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 10:09:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> >>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>>> Raw pork? Cucumber peels? Lettuce ribs? What kind of crappy stock
> >>>> is that?
> >>> LOL. I've never used any of those for ingredients. You just thought of
> >>> the worst case scenario.
> >>
> >> Yes, I did a reductio ad absurdum on you.
> >>
> >> Why do you always snip the pertinent parts?
> >
> > I only snip things above that have nothing to do with what I respond to.
> > Ophy quotes everything and gets yelled at for doing so.
> ====
>
> Exactly!!! We can't win so we ought to stop taking notice of those
> dishing it out! I do!!


We were *sincerely* hoping that you had croaked...

--
Best
Greg

Gary wrote:

> Dave Smith wrote:
> > My low sodium diet involves a number of recipes where low sodium
> > broth is often used to boost the flavour without adding salt.
>
> Dumb comment. Low sodium broth does contain extra salt.
> Make your own for flavor with little or no salt.

Gary, low sodium diets don't mean no sodium. Most mean 1600 to 1800mg
a day. It's often used by Doctors to mean 'no more salt bombs'. The
average recommended is 2,000mg a day but a lot of people eat up to
3,500mg a day.

Technically it is a 'reduced sodium diet'. You can hit severe
restrictions though with some ailments. Some types of kidney disease
for example.

Gary wrote:

> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > In an ideal world, I'd make all my own stock. But I live
> > in the real world and have multiple demands on my time, so some
> > store-bought things find their way into my pantry. I make homemade
> > stock for applications where its taste is paramount, but packaged
> > broth is good enough for my weekly (or biweekly) vegetable soup.
>
> So easy and little time to make your own though if you use a crock
> pot. Takes about 10 minutes to put meat and saved veggie scraps in
> the pot. Top it off with water, put on a lid and set it to low and
> forget about it until the next morning.
>
> Next morning, pour through a colander into a larger pot and let it
> cool. Save in pint sized containers with lids.

I haven't done my veggie stock in a crockpot yet but plan to try it.
Fact is, it's always been busy with another dish when it's time for
veggie stock making.

It's not the same though if doing a bone stock. That's crockpot for
sure due to the long cooking time.

Sheldon Martin wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 10:02:43 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>
> > On 3/17/2021 10:50 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 10:09:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> >>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>>> Raw pork? Cucumber peels? Lettuce ribs? What kind of crappy stock
> >>>> is that?
> >>> LOL. I've never used any of those for ingredients. You just
> thought of >>> the worst case scenario.
> > >
> >> Yes, I did a reductio ad absurdum on you.
> > >
> >> Why do you always snip the pertinent parts?
> >
> > I only snip things above that have nothing to do with what I
> > respond to. Ophy quotes everything and gets yelled at for doing so.
> > Can't win here in this Don Rickles ng.
> >
> > >
> >>>> So easy and little time to make your own though if you use a
> crock pot. >>>> Takes about 10 minutes to put meat and saved veggie
> scraps in the pot. >>>> Top it off with water, put on a lid and set
> it to low and forget about >>>> it until the next morning.
> > >
> >> What meat and veggie scraps do you assume but not express?
> >
> > I use whole meat pieces with skin and bones and veggie scraps. Best
> > example is onion ends. Whenever I use a new onion, I'll cut off
> > both ends. They go into a freezer bag for stock. A tomato that's
> > getting soft, I'll put in freezer for stock.
>
> Mostly critter snacks and compost bucket fill. Seems like mostly you
> freeze your garbage. Today two banana peels, an orange rind, and an
> apple core got tossed outside, critters already ate it all.

No one wants to hear about you littering the yard with rotting meat and
produce to 'feed the wildlife' Sheldon. The rest of us don't let it
rot and make soup of it, or broth. You know, the real stuff, not the
boxes you get at the store. Opps, sorry, you DONT know....