On 3/14/2021 7:59 PM, wrote:
> On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 7:00:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>>
>> I'm sure some of you have tile walls in your kitchen. What would
>> motivate a person to paint over ceramic tile? In my son's new house,
>> he was originally intending to totally redo the kitchen, but he's
>> since reconsidered, and instead is opting to restore it to original,
>> except for the window. Instead of replacing the cabinets that have
>> layers of paint, I'm stripping them to bare wood, and repainting them
>> white. I'm also stripping the paint off of the original tile. That
>> blue is painted over a nice, deep burgundy tile.
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>>
> That's awful looking.
>>
>> Here's what's underneath. The tile at the rear is only half stripped.
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>>
> MUCH better. That will provide a nice accent color. But I wouldn't be so happy
> with the tile countertop. The grout lines with be a harbinger of bacteria.

Chlorine bleach, concentrated peroxide and quat disinfectants are
very effective at killing bacteria. If you want to mix up a cheap
surface disinfectant that is chlorine free, 4 oz 99% isopropyl alcohol
added to 12 oz 40 volume clear developer is serious stuff. You don't
want to get it on your skin, but it dries with zero residue.
https://www.hbprochem.com/product-pa...-alcohol-16oz?
https://www.sallybeauty.com/hair-col.../SLNCAR67.html
>>
>> Of course, the vinyl asbestos floor tile has to go, but white ceramic
>> will maintain the old fashioned look. He even wants to replace the
>> modern induction range with the 1950s-'60s gas range we pulled out of
>> our rental property, which worked fine.
>>
> When you say the vinyl asbestos floor tile will have to go, can you elaborate?
> Professionally removed so as to not stir up asbestos particles?
>
I can remove it safely. I spent years working with VA tile. As long as
you keep it wet, and especially if you remove the tiles unbroken, no
asbestos fibers will become airborne. It needs to go because it's ugly.

--
--Bryan
For your safety and protection, this sig. has been thoroughly
tested on laboratory animals.

On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 17:24:15 -0500, BryanGSimmons
> wrote:

>On 3/14/2021 7:59 PM, wrote:
>> On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 7:00:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm sure some of you have tile walls in your kitchen. What would
>>> motivate a person to paint over ceramic tile? In my son's new house,
>>> he was originally intending to totally redo the kitchen, but he's
>>> since reconsidered, and instead is opting to restore it to original,
>>> except for the window. Instead of replacing the cabinets that have
>>> layers of paint, I'm stripping them to bare wood, and repainting them
>>> white. I'm also stripping the paint off of the original tile. That
>>> blue is painted over a nice, deep burgundy tile.
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>>>
>> That's awful looking.
>>>
>>> Here's what's underneath. The tile at the rear is only half stripped.
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>>>
>> MUCH better. That will provide a nice accent color. But I wouldn't be so happy
>> with the tile countertop. The grout lines with be a harbinger of bacteria.
>
>Chlorine bleach, concentrated peroxide and quat disinfectants are
>very effective at killing bacteria. If you want to mix up a cheap
>surface disinfectant that is chlorine free, 4 oz 99% isopropyl alcohol
>added to 12 oz 40 volume clear developer is serious stuff. You don't
>want to get it on your skin, but it dries with zero residue.
>https://www.hbprochem.com/product-pa...-alcohol-16oz?
>https://www.sallybeauty.com/hair-col.../SLNCAR67.html
>>>
>>> Of course, the vinyl asbestos floor tile has to go, but white ceramic
>>> will maintain the old fashioned look. He even wants to replace the
>>> modern induction range with the 1950s-'60s gas range we pulled out of
>>> our rental property, which worked fine.
>>>
>> When you say the vinyl asbestos floor tile will have to go, can you elaborate?
>> Professionally removed so as to not stir up asbestos particles?
>>
>I can remove it safely. I spent years working with VA tile. As long as
>you keep it wet, and especially if you remove the tiles unbroken, no
>asbestos fibers will become airborne. It needs to go because it's ugly.

If that tile floor is reasonably flat and level it can be refloored
directly over it... save a ton of labor and a huge mess. Any low
spots can be shimmed up with tar paper. Our kitchen floor was that
type of 12" tile, installed a Brazilian Cherry hardwood floor over
it... adios puke green:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/S8YDCLD

Sheldon Martin wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 17:24:15 -0500, BryanGSimmons
> > wrote:
>
>> On 3/14/2021 7:59 PM, wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 7:00:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure some of you have tile walls in your kitchen. What would
>>>> motivate a person to paint over ceramic tile? In my son's new house,
>>>> he was originally intending to totally redo the kitchen, but he's
>>>> since reconsidered, and instead is opting to restore it to original,
>>>> except for the window. Instead of replacing the cabinets that have
>>>> layers of paint, I'm stripping them to bare wood, and repainting them
>>>> white. I'm also stripping the paint off of the original tile. That
>>>> blue is painted over a nice, deep burgundy tile.
>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>>>>
>>> That's awful looking.
>>>>
>>>> Here's what's underneath. The tile at the rear is only half stripped.
>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>>>>
>>> MUCH better. That will provide a nice accent color. But I wouldn't be so happy
>>> with the tile countertop. The grout lines with be a harbinger of bacteria.
>>
>> Chlorine bleach, concentrated peroxide and quat disinfectants are
>> very effective at killing bacteria. If you want to mix up a cheap
>> surface disinfectant that is chlorine free, 4 oz 99% isopropyl alcohol
>> added to 12 oz 40 volume clear developer is serious stuff. You don't
>> want to get it on your skin, but it dries with zero residue.
>> https://www.hbprochem.com/product-pa...-alcohol-16oz?
>> https://www.sallybeauty.com/hair-col.../SLNCAR67.html
>>>>
>>>> Of course, the vinyl asbestos floor tile has to go, but white ceramic
>>>> will maintain the old fashioned look. He even wants to replace the
>>>> modern induction range with the 1950s-'60s gas range we pulled out of
>>>> our rental property, which worked fine.
>>>>
>>> When you say the vinyl asbestos floor tile will have to go, can you elaborate?
>>> Professionally removed so as to not stir up asbestos particles?
>>>
>> I can remove it safely. I spent years working with VA tile. As long as
>> you keep it wet, and especially if you remove the tiles unbroken, no
>> asbestos fibers will become airborne. It needs to go because it's ugly.
>
> If that tile floor is reasonably flat and level it can be refloored
> directly over it... save a ton of labor and a huge mess. Any low
> spots can be shimmed up with tar paper. Our kitchen floor was that
> type of 12" tile, installed a Brazilian Cherry hardwood floor over
> it... adios puke green:
> https://postimg.cc/gallery/S8YDCLD
>

Yoose couldn't afford belizean hardwood Popeye?

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 11:21:07 AM UTC-5, Sheldon wrote:
>
> If that tile floor is reasonably flat and level it can be refloored
> directly over it... save a ton of labor and a huge mess. Any low
> spots can be shimmed up with tar paper. Our kitchen floor was that
> type of 12" tile, installed a Brazilian Cherry hardwood floor over
> it... adios puke green:
> https://postimg.cc/gallery/S8YDCLD
>
That is VERY pretty, you chose well.

The linoleum, yes it was old enough to be called linoleum and not vinyl,
was very similar in color to yours. It was ugly as homemade sin and
extremely old.

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 12:21:07 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 17:24:15 -0500, BryanGSimmons
> > wrote:
>
> >On 3/14/2021 7:59 PM, wrote:
> >> On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 7:00:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I'm sure some of you have tile walls in your kitchen. What would
> >>> motivate a person to paint over ceramic tile? In my son's new house,
> >>> he was originally intending to totally redo the kitchen, but he's
> >>> since reconsidered, and instead is opting to restore it to original,
> >>> except for the window. Instead of replacing the cabinets that have
> >>> layers of paint, I'm stripping them to bare wood, and repainting them
> >>> white. I'm also stripping the paint off of the original tile. That
> >>> blue is painted over a nice, deep burgundy tile.
> >>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
> >>>
> >> That's awful looking.
> >>>
> >>> Here's what's underneath. The tile at the rear is only half stripped.
> >>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
> >>>
> >> MUCH better. That will provide a nice accent color. But I wouldn't be so happy
> >> with the tile countertop. The grout lines with be a harbinger of bacteria.
> >
> >Chlorine bleach, concentrated peroxide and quat disinfectants are
> >very effective at killing bacteria. If you want to mix up a cheap
> >surface disinfectant that is chlorine free, 4 oz 99% isopropyl alcohol
> >added to 12 oz 40 volume clear developer is serious stuff. You don't
> >want to get it on your skin, but it dries with zero residue.
> >https://www.hbprochem.com/product-pa...-alcohol-16oz?
> >https://www.sallybeauty.com/hair-col.../SLNCAR67.html
> >>>
> >>> Of course, the vinyl asbestos floor tile has to go, but white ceramic
> >>> will maintain the old fashioned look. He even wants to replace the
> >>> modern induction range with the 1950s-'60s gas range we pulled out of
> >>> our rental property, which worked fine.
> >>>
> >> When you say the vinyl asbestos floor tile will have to go, can you elaborate?
> >> Professionally removed so as to not stir up asbestos particles?
> >>
> >I can remove it safely. I spent years working with VA tile. As long as
> >you keep it wet, and especially if you remove the tiles unbroken, no
> >asbestos fibers will become airborne. It needs to go because it's ugly.
> If that tile floor is reasonably flat and level it can be refloored
> directly over it... save a ton of labor and a huge mess. Any low
> spots can be shimmed up with tar paper. Our kitchen floor was that
> type of 12" tile, installed a Brazilian Cherry hardwood floor over
> it... adios puke green:
> https://postimg.cc/gallery/S8YDCLD
Sheldon, very nice. I am thinking doing the same. Was it diy? Cost? I am currently doing all doors and windows diy except for large front window over 110x80. Back doors I am midway thru painting which I hate. Satin black acrylic has brush marks. Switched to fine 2 inch roller and side 2 is looking better than side 1. Bought some 220 grit to redo side 1. No hurry as it is freezing. Nepa.

On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 14:27:11 -0700 (PDT), Thomas >
wrote:

>On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 12:21:07 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 17:24:15 -0500, BryanGSimmons
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On 3/14/2021 7:59 PM, wrote:
>> >> On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 7:00:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm sure some of you have tile walls in your kitchen. What would
>> >>> motivate a person to paint over ceramic tile? In my son's new house,
>> >>> he was originally intending to totally redo the kitchen, but he's
>> >>> since reconsidered, and instead is opting to restore it to original,
>> >>> except for the window. Instead of replacing the cabinets that have
>> >>> layers of paint, I'm stripping them to bare wood, and repainting them
>> >>> white. I'm also stripping the paint off of the original tile. That
>> >>> blue is painted over a nice, deep burgundy tile.
>> >>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>> >>>
>> >> That's awful looking.
>> >>>
>> >>> Here's what's underneath. The tile at the rear is only half stripped.
>> >>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>> >>>
>> >> MUCH better. That will provide a nice accent color. But I wouldn't be so happy
>> >> with the tile countertop. The grout lines with be a harbinger of bacteria.
>> >
>> >Chlorine bleach, concentrated peroxide and quat disinfectants are
>> >very effective at killing bacteria. If you want to mix up a cheap
>> >surface disinfectant that is chlorine free, 4 oz 99% isopropyl alcohol
>> >added to 12 oz 40 volume clear developer is serious stuff. You don't
>> >want to get it on your skin, but it dries with zero residue.
>> >https://www.hbprochem.com/product-pa...-alcohol-16oz?
>> >https://www.sallybeauty.com/hair-col.../SLNCAR67.html
>> >>>
>> >>> Of course, the vinyl asbestos floor tile has to go, but white ceramic
>> >>> will maintain the old fashioned look. He even wants to replace the
>> >>> modern induction range with the 1950s-'60s gas range we pulled out of
>> >>> our rental property, which worked fine.
>> >>>
>> >> When you say the vinyl asbestos floor tile will have to go, can you elaborate?
>> >> Professionally removed so as to not stir up asbestos particles?
>> >>
>> >I can remove it safely. I spent years working with VA tile. As long as
>> >you keep it wet, and especially if you remove the tiles unbroken, no
>> >asbestos fibers will become airborne. It needs to go because it's ugly.
>> If that tile floor is reasonably flat and level it can be refloored
>> directly over it... save a ton of labor and a huge mess. Any low
>> spots can be shimmed up with tar paper. Our kitchen floor was that
>> type of 12" tile, installed a Brazilian Cherry hardwood floor over
>> it... adios puke green:
>> https://postimg.cc/gallery/S8YDCLD
>Sheldon, very nice. I am thinking doing the same. Was it diy? Cost? I am currently doing all doors and windows diy except for large front window over 110x80. Back doors I am midway thru painting which I hate. Satin black acrylic has brush marks. Switched to fine 2 inch roller and side 2 is looking better than side 1. Bought some 220 grit to redo side 1. No hurry as it is freezing. Nepa.

I had someone do it, someone who was very skilled at installing
hardwood flooring, he learned from his father who installed the
hardwood flooring in the rest of this house; livingroom, diningroom,
four bedrooms, and hallways. Why the kitchen area wasn't done at that
time I don't know.

It was 30 years ago so the actual cost is immaterial but at the time
it was a good price. The price was less than any other kind of
flooring. A properly done hardwood floor is good for 120+ years, and
can be sanded and refinished several times. It will certainly outlive
you. Right now 30 years later it looks brand new. Real hardwood
flooring, T & G, is 3/4" thick. If you tire of the look it can be
stained/bleached to look very different. Naturally there are many
different woods to choose from and unlimited methods of instalation
from basic gymnasium to fancy schmancy parquet. Hardwood flooring is
a lifetime investment, and is very easy to maintain... works
exceptionally well in kitchens and bathrooms.

On 3/16/2021 7:35 PM, Sheldon Martin wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 14:27:11 -0700 (PDT), >
> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 12:21:07 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
>>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 17:24:15 -0500, BryanGSimmons
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/14/2021 7:59 PM, wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 7:00:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sure some of you have tile walls in your kitchen. What would
>>>>>> motivate a person to paint over ceramic tile? In my son's new house,
>>>>>> he was originally intending to totally redo the kitchen, but he's
>>>>>> since reconsidered, and instead is opting to restore it to original,
>>>>>> except for the window. Instead of replacing the cabinets that have
>>>>>> layers of paint, I'm stripping them to bare wood, and repainting them
>>>>>> white. I'm also stripping the paint off of the original tile. That
>>>>>> blue is painted over a nice, deep burgundy tile.
>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>>>>>>
>>>>> That's awful looking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's what's underneath. The tile at the rear is only half stripped.
>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>>>>>>
>>>>> MUCH better. That will provide a nice accent color. But I wouldn't be so happy
>>>>> with the tile countertop. The grout lines with be a harbinger of bacteria.
>>>>
>>>> Chlorine bleach, concentrated peroxide and quat disinfectants are
>>>> very effective at killing bacteria. If you want to mix up a cheap
>>>> surface disinfectant that is chlorine free, 4 oz 99% isopropyl alcohol
>>>> added to 12 oz 40 volume clear developer is serious stuff. You don't
>>>> want to get it on your skin, but it dries with zero residue.
>>>> https://www.hbprochem.com/product-pa...-alcohol-16oz?
>>>> https://www.sallybeauty.com/hair-col.../SLNCAR67.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, the vinyl asbestos floor tile has to go, but white ceramic
>>>>>> will maintain the old fashioned look. He even wants to replace the
>>>>>> modern induction range with the 1950s-'60s gas range we pulled out of
>>>>>> our rental property, which worked fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>> When you say the vinyl asbestos floor tile will have to go, can you elaborate?
>>>>> Professionally removed so as to not stir up asbestos particles?
>>>>>
>>>> I can remove it safely. I spent years working with VA tile. As long as
>>>> you keep it wet, and especially if you remove the tiles unbroken, no
>>>> asbestos fibers will become airborne. It needs to go because it's ugly.
>>> If that tile floor is reasonably flat and level it can be refloored
>>> directly over it... save a ton of labor and a huge mess. Any low
>>> spots can be shimmed up with tar paper. Our kitchen floor was that
>>> type of 12" tile, installed a Brazilian Cherry hardwood floor over
>>> it... adios puke green:
>>> https://postimg.cc/gallery/S8YDCLD
>> Sheldon, very nice. I am thinking doing the same. Was it diy? Cost? I am currently doing all doors and windows diy except for large front window over 110x80. Back doors I am midway thru painting which I hate. Satin black acrylic has brush marks. Switched to fine 2 inch roller and side 2 is looking better than side 1. Bought some 220 grit to redo side 1. No hurry as it is freezing. Nepa.
>
> I had someone do it, someone who was very skilled at installing
> hardwood flooring, he learned from his father who installed the
> hardwood flooring in the rest of this house; livingroom, diningroom,
> four bedrooms, and hallways. Why the kitchen area wasn't done at that
> time I don't know.
>
> It was 30 years ago so the actual cost is immaterial but at the time
> it was a good price. The price was less than any other kind of
> flooring. A properly done hardwood floor is good for 120+ years, and
> can be sanded and refinished several times. It will certainly outlive
> you. Right now 30 years later it looks brand new. Real hardwood
> flooring, T& G, is 3/4" thick. If you tire of the look it can be
> stained/bleached to look very different. Naturally there are many
> different woods to choose from and unlimited methods of instalation
> from basic gymnasium to fancy schmancy parquet. Hardwood flooring is
> a lifetime investment, and is very easy to maintain... works
> exceptionally well in kitchens and bathrooms.

My concern would be water in the kitchens and bathrooms. You aren't
afraid of it warping at all?

Michael Trew wrote:
> On 3/16/2021 7:35 PM, Sheldon Martin wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 14:27:11 -0700 (PDT),
>> >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 12:21:07 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 17:24:15 -0500, BryanGSimmons
>>>> >* wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/14/2021 7:59 PM, wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 7:00:27 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm sure some of you have tile walls in your kitchen. What
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> motivate a person to paint over ceramic tile? In my son's
>>>>>>> new house,
>>>>>>> he was originally intending to totally redo the kitchen, but
>>>>>>> he's
>>>>>>> since reconsidered, and instead is opting to restore it to
>>>>>>> original,
>>>>>>> except for the window. Instead of replacing the cabinets
>>>>>>> that have
>>>>>>> layers of paint, I'm stripping them to bare wood, and
>>>>>>> repainting them
>>>>>>> white. I'm also stripping the paint off of the original
>>>>>>> tile. That
>>>>>>> blue is painted over a nice, deep burgundy tile.
>>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's awful looking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's what's underneath. The tile at the rear is only half
>>>>>>> stripped.
>>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> MUCH better. That will provide a nice accent color. But I
>>>>>> wouldn't be so happy
>>>>>> with the tile countertop. The grout lines with be a harbinger
>>>>>> of bacteria.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chlorine bleach, concentrated peroxide and quat disinfectants are
>>>>> very effective at killing bacteria. If you want to mix up a cheap
>>>>> surface disinfectant that is chlorine free, 4 oz 99% isopropyl
>>>>> alcohol
>>>>> added to 12 oz 40 volume clear developer is serious stuff. You
>>>>> don't
>>>>> want to get it on your skin, but it dries with zero residue.
>>>>> https://www.hbprochem.com/product-pa...-alcohol-16oz?
>>>>> https://www.sallybeauty.com/hair-col.../SLNCAR67.html
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, the vinyl asbestos floor tile has to go, but
>>>>>>> white ceramic
>>>>>>> will maintain the old fashioned look. He even wants to
>>>>>>> replace the
>>>>>>> modern induction range with the 1950s-'60s gas range we
>>>>>>> pulled out of
>>>>>>> our rental property, which worked fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you say the vinyl asbestos floor tile will have to go,
>>>>>> can you elaborate?
>>>>>> Professionally removed so as to not stir up asbestos particles?
>>>>>>
>>>>> I can remove it safely. I spent years working with VA tile. As
>>>>> long as
>>>>> you keep it wet, and especially if you remove the tiles
>>>>> unbroken, no
>>>>> asbestos fibers will become airborne. It needs to go because
>>>>> it's ugly.
>>>> If that tile floor is reasonably flat and level it can be
>>>> refloored
>>>> directly over it... save a ton of labor and a huge mess. Any low
>>>> spots can be shimmed up with tar paper. Our kitchen floor was that
>>>> type of 12" tile, installed a Brazilian Cherry hardwood floor over
>>>> it... adios puke green:
>>>> https://postimg.cc/gallery/S8YDCLD
>>> Sheldon, very nice. I am thinking doing the same. Was it diy?
>>> Cost? I am currently doing all doors and windows diy except for
>>> large front window over 110x80. Back doors I am midway thru
>>> painting which I hate. Satin black acrylic has brush marks.
>>> Switched to fine 2 inch roller and side 2 is looking better than
>>> side 1. Bought some 220 grit to redo side 1. No hurry as it is
>>> freezing. Nepa.
>>
>> I had someone do it, someone who was very skilled at installing
>> hardwood flooring, he learned from his father who installed the
>> hardwood flooring in the rest of this house; livingroom, diningroom,
>> four bedrooms, and hallways.* Why the kitchen area wasn't done at
>> that
>> time I don't know.
>>
>> It was 30 years ago so the actual cost is immaterial but at the time
>> it was a good price.* The price was less than any other kind of
>> flooring.* A properly done hardwood floor is good for 120+ years,
>> and
>> can be sanded and refinished several times.* It will certainly
>> outlive
>> you.* Right now 30 years later it looks brand new.* Real hardwood
>> flooring, T&* G, is 3/4" thick.* If you tire of the look it can be
>> stained/bleached to look very different.* Naturally there are many
>> different woods to choose from and unlimited methods of instalation
>> from basic gymnasium to fancy schmancy parquet.* Hardwood
>> flooring is
>> a lifetime investment, and is very easy to maintain... works
>> exceptionally well in kitchens and bathrooms.
>
> My concern would be water in the kitchens and bathrooms.* You
> aren't afraid of it warping at all?

Water wouldn't dare get on Popeye's floors.

They are the finest in the universe.

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 7:35:09 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 14:27:11 -0700 (PDT), Thomas >
> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 12:21:07 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
> >> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 17:24:15 -0500, BryanGSimmons
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 3/14/2021 7:59 PM, wrote:
> >> >> On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 7:00:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I'm sure some of you have tile walls in your kitchen. What would
> >> >>> motivate a person to paint over ceramic tile? In my son's new house,
> >> >>> he was originally intending to totally redo the kitchen, but he's
> >> >>> since reconsidered, and instead is opting to restore it to original,
> >> >>> except for the window. Instead of replacing the cabinets that have
> >> >>> layers of paint, I'm stripping them to bare wood, and repainting them
> >> >>> white. I'm also stripping the paint off of the original tile. That
> >> >>> blue is painted over a nice, deep burgundy tile.
> >> >>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
> >> >>>
> >> >> That's awful looking.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Here's what's underneath. The tile at the rear is only half stripped.
> >> >>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
> >> >>>
> >> >> MUCH better. That will provide a nice accent color. But I wouldn't be so happy
> >> >> with the tile countertop. The grout lines with be a harbinger of bacteria.
> >> >
> >> >Chlorine bleach, concentrated peroxide and quat disinfectants are
> >> >very effective at killing bacteria. If you want to mix up a cheap
> >> >surface disinfectant that is chlorine free, 4 oz 99% isopropyl alcohol
> >> >added to 12 oz 40 volume clear developer is serious stuff. You don't
> >> >want to get it on your skin, but it dries with zero residue.
> >> >https://www.hbprochem.com/product-pa...-alcohol-16oz?
> >> >https://www.sallybeauty.com/hair-col.../SLNCAR67.html
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Of course, the vinyl asbestos floor tile has to go, but white ceramic
> >> >>> will maintain the old fashioned look. He even wants to replace the
> >> >>> modern induction range with the 1950s-'60s gas range we pulled out of
> >> >>> our rental property, which worked fine.
> >> >>>
> >> >> When you say the vinyl asbestos floor tile will have to go, can you elaborate?
> >> >> Professionally removed so as to not stir up asbestos particles?
> >> >>
> >> >I can remove it safely. I spent years working with VA tile. As long as
> >> >you keep it wet, and especially if you remove the tiles unbroken, no
> >> >asbestos fibers will become airborne. It needs to go because it's ugly.
> >> If that tile floor is reasonably flat and level it can be refloored
> >> directly over it... save a ton of labor and a huge mess. Any low
> >> spots can be shimmed up with tar paper. Our kitchen floor was that
> >> type of 12" tile, installed a Brazilian Cherry hardwood floor over
> >> it... adios puke green:
> >> https://postimg.cc/gallery/S8YDCLD
> >Sheldon, very nice. I am thinking doing the same. Was it diy? Cost? I am currently doing all doors and windows diy except for large front window over 110x80. Back doors I am midway thru painting which I hate. Satin black acrylic has brush marks. Switched to fine 2 inch roller and side 2 is looking better than side 1. Bought some 220 grit to redo side 1. No hurry as it is freezing. Nepa.
> I had someone do it, someone who was very skilled at installing
> hardwood flooring, he learned from his father who installed the
> hardwood flooring in the rest of this house; livingroom, diningroom,
> four bedrooms, and hallways. Why the kitchen area wasn't done at that
> time I don't know.

Probably because tile was considered easier to clean.

I've seen people installing click-together flooring in kitchens.
What happens if they drop and egg or spill some milk? Does
it run down under the flooring?

> It was 30 years ago so the actual cost is immaterial but at the time
> it was a good price. The price was less than any other kind of
> flooring. A properly done hardwood floor is good for 120+ years, and
> can be sanded and refinished several times. It will certainly outlive
> you. Right now 30 years later it looks brand new. Real hardwood
> flooring, T & G, is 3/4" thick. If you tire of the look it can be
> stained/bleached to look very different. Naturally there are many
> different woods to choose from and unlimited methods of instalation
> from basic gymnasium to fancy schmancy parquet. Hardwood flooring is
> a lifetime investment, and is very easy to maintain... works
> exceptionally well in kitchens and bathrooms.

Our floors are a little bouncy. The builder was a great stonemason but
not much of a carpenter. We beefed up the bathroom floor before
installing ceramic tile, but there's so much going on under the kitchen
I doubt we'd attempt it. That's where the furnace is--and most of the
kitchen is over the basement while part of it is over a crawlspace.

The upshot is that all of our existing hardwood floors move around
a lot; I can feel the boards flexing in some areas when I walk on
them. If we had the hardwood floors refinished, I'm sure the seams
between the boards would open up right away.

We're perpetually looking at remodeling the kitchen, and our first
choice for flooring is sheet vinyl. No seams, and flexible enough
to follow the movement of the subfloor.

Cindy Hamilton

On 3/16/2021 5:27 PM, Thomas wrote:
> Switched to fine 2 inch roller and side 2 is looking better than side 1.

There's nothing "fine" about a 2" roller if you're talking about the
nap. A fine nap is 3/8" or less.

On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 23:59:24 -0400, Michael Trew >
wrote:

>On 3/16/2021 7:35 PM, Sheldon Martin wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 14:27:11 -0700 (PDT), >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 12:21:07 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 17:24:15 -0500, BryanGSimmons
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/14/2021 7:59 PM, wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 7:00:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm sure some of you have tile walls in your kitchen. What would
>>>>>>> motivate a person to paint over ceramic tile? In my son's new house,
>>>>>>> he was originally intending to totally redo the kitchen, but he's
>>>>>>> since reconsidered, and instead is opting to restore it to original,
>>>>>>> except for the window. Instead of replacing the cabinets that have
>>>>>>> layers of paint, I'm stripping them to bare wood, and repainting them
>>>>>>> white. I'm also stripping the paint off of the original tile. That
>>>>>>> blue is painted over a nice, deep burgundy tile.
>>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's awful looking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's what's underneath. The tile at the rear is only half stripped.
>>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> MUCH better. That will provide a nice accent color. But I wouldn't be so happy
>>>>>> with the tile countertop. The grout lines with be a harbinger of bacteria.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chlorine bleach, concentrated peroxide and quat disinfectants are
>>>>> very effective at killing bacteria. If you want to mix up a cheap
>>>>> surface disinfectant that is chlorine free, 4 oz 99% isopropyl alcohol
>>>>> added to 12 oz 40 volume clear developer is serious stuff. You don't
>>>>> want to get it on your skin, but it dries with zero residue.
>>>>> https://www.hbprochem.com/product-pa...-alcohol-16oz?
>>>>> https://www.sallybeauty.com/hair-col.../SLNCAR67.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, the vinyl asbestos floor tile has to go, but white ceramic
>>>>>>> will maintain the old fashioned look. He even wants to replace the
>>>>>>> modern induction range with the 1950s-'60s gas range we pulled out of
>>>>>>> our rental property, which worked fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you say the vinyl asbestos floor tile will have to go, can you elaborate?
>>>>>> Professionally removed so as to not stir up asbestos particles?
>>>>>>
>>>>> I can remove it safely. I spent years working with VA tile. As long as
>>>>> you keep it wet, and especially if you remove the tiles unbroken, no
>>>>> asbestos fibers will become airborne. It needs to go because it's ugly.
>>>> If that tile floor is reasonably flat and level it can be refloored
>>>> directly over it... save a ton of labor and a huge mess. Any low
>>>> spots can be shimmed up with tar paper. Our kitchen floor was that
>>>> type of 12" tile, installed a Brazilian Cherry hardwood floor over
>>>> it... adios puke green:
>>>> https://postimg.cc/gallery/S8YDCLD
>>> Sheldon, very nice. I am thinking doing the same. Was it diy? Cost? I am currently doing all doors and windows diy except for large front window over 110x80. Back doors I am midway thru painting which I hate. Satin black acrylic has brush marks. Switched to fine 2 inch roller and side 2 is looking better than side 1. Bought some 220 grit to redo side 1. No hurry as it is freezing. Nepa.
>>
>> I had someone do it, someone who was very skilled at installing
>> hardwood flooring, he learned from his father who installed the
>> hardwood flooring in the rest of this house; livingroom, diningroom,
>> four bedrooms, and hallways. Why the kitchen area wasn't done at that
>> time I don't know.
>>
>> It was 30 years ago so the actual cost is immaterial but at the time
>> it was a good price. The price was less than any other kind of
>> flooring. A properly done hardwood floor is good for 120+ years, and
>> can be sanded and refinished several times. It will certainly outlive
>> you. Right now 30 years later it looks brand new. Real hardwood
>> flooring, T& G, is 3/4" thick. If you tire of the look it can be
>> stained/bleached to look very different. Naturally there are many
>> different woods to choose from and unlimited methods of instalation
>> from basic gymnasium to fancy schmancy parquet. Hardwood flooring is
>> a lifetime investment, and is very easy to maintain... works
>> exceptionally well in kitchens and bathrooms.
>
>My concern would be water in the kitchens and bathrooms. You aren't
>afraid of it warping at all?

The new finishes are water soluable (odorless) resist water still,we
don't flood or wet mop the floors. There are special products for
cleaning/protecting hardwood flooring.
Put down real hardwood flooring, don't get suckered in to using
laminate (cheap plywood).
https://us.bona.com/
https://www.woodfloors.org/

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 01:55:56 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 7:35:09 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 14:27:11 -0700 (PDT), Thomas >
>> wrote:
>> >On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 12:21:07 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 17:24:15 -0500, BryanGSimmons
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On 3/14/2021 7:59 PM, wrote:
>> >> >> On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 7:00:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I'm sure some of you have tile walls in your kitchen. What would
>> >> >>> motivate a person to paint over ceramic tile? In my son's new house,
>> >> >>> he was originally intending to totally redo the kitchen, but he's
>> >> >>> since reconsidered, and instead is opting to restore it to original,
>> >> >>> except for the window. Instead of replacing the cabinets that have
>> >> >>> layers of paint, I'm stripping them to bare wood, and repainting them
>> >> >>> white. I'm also stripping the paint off of the original tile. That
>> >> >>> blue is painted over a nice, deep burgundy tile.
>> >> >>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> That's awful looking.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Here's what's underneath. The tile at the rear is only half stripped.
>> >> >>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> MUCH better. That will provide a nice accent color. But I wouldn't be so happy
>> >> >> with the tile countertop. The grout lines with be a harbinger of bacteria.
>> >> >
>> >> >Chlorine bleach, concentrated peroxide and quat disinfectants are
>> >> >very effective at killing bacteria. If you want to mix up a cheap
>> >> >surface disinfectant that is chlorine free, 4 oz 99% isopropyl alcohol
>> >> >added to 12 oz 40 volume clear developer is serious stuff. You don't
>> >> >want to get it on your skin, but it dries with zero residue.
>> >> >https://www.hbprochem.com/product-pa...-alcohol-16oz?
>> >> >https://www.sallybeauty.com/hair-col.../SLNCAR67.html
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Of course, the vinyl asbestos floor tile has to go, but white ceramic
>> >> >>> will maintain the old fashioned look. He even wants to replace the
>> >> >>> modern induction range with the 1950s-'60s gas range we pulled out of
>> >> >>> our rental property, which worked fine.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> When you say the vinyl asbestos floor tile will have to go, can you elaborate?
>> >> >> Professionally removed so as to not stir up asbestos particles?
>> >> >>
>> >> >I can remove it safely. I spent years working with VA tile. As long as
>> >> >you keep it wet, and especially if you remove the tiles unbroken, no
>> >> >asbestos fibers will become airborne. It needs to go because it's ugly.
>> >> If that tile floor is reasonably flat and level it can be refloored
>> >> directly over it... save a ton of labor and a huge mess. Any low
>> >> spots can be shimmed up with tar paper. Our kitchen floor was that
>> >> type of 12" tile, installed a Brazilian Cherry hardwood floor over
>> >> it... adios puke green:
>> >> https://postimg.cc/gallery/S8YDCLD
>> >Sheldon, very nice. I am thinking doing the same. Was it diy? Cost? I am currently doing all doors and windows diy except for large front window over 110x80. Back doors I am midway thru painting which I hate. Satin black acrylic has brush marks. Switched to fine 2 inch roller and side 2 is looking better than side 1. Bought some 220 grit to redo side 1. No hurry as it is freezing. Nepa.
>> I had someone do it, someone who was very skilled at installing
>> hardwood flooring, he learned from his father who installed the
>> hardwood flooring in the rest of this house; livingroom, diningroom,
>> four bedrooms, and hallways. Why the kitchen area wasn't done at that
>> time I don't know.
>
>Probably because tile was considered easier to clean.

That could't be the reason, most of the house had hardwood floors.

>I've seen people installing click-together flooring in kitchens.
>What happens if they drop and egg or spill some milk? Does
>it run down under the flooring?

I haven't seen that. How would one clean that without the liquid
seeping through?

>> It was 30 years ago so the actual cost is immaterial but at the time
>> it was a good price. The price was less than any other kind of
>> flooring. A properly done hardwood floor is good for 120+ years, and
>> can be sanded and refinished several times. It will certainly outlive
>> you. Right now 30 years later it looks brand new. Real hardwood
>> flooring, T & G, is 3/4" thick. If you tire of the look it can be
>> stained/bleached to look very different. Naturally there are many
>> different woods to choose from and unlimited methods of instalation
>> from basic gymnasium to fancy schmancy parquet. Hardwood flooring is
>> a lifetime investment, and is very easy to maintain... works
>> exceptionally well in kitchens and bathrooms.
>
>Our floors are a little bouncy. The builder was a great stonemason but
>not much of a carpenter. We beefed up the bathroom floor before
>installing ceramic tile, but there's so much going on under the kitchen
>I doubt we'd attempt it. That's where the furnace is--and most of the
>kitchen is over the basement while part of it is over a crawlspace.
>
>The upshot is that all of our existing hardwood floors move around
>a lot; I can feel the boards flexing in some areas when I walk on
>them. If we had the hardwood floors refinished, I'm sure the seams
>between the boards would open up right away.

Obviously whoever installed your hardwood flooring was very
inexperienced... should have noticed the movement and laid down 5/8"
plywood before installing the hardwood.

>We're perpetually looking at remodeling the kitchen, and our first
>choice for flooring is sheet vinyl. No seams, and flexible enough
>to follow the movement of the subfloor.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

Flexible vinyl doesn't seem like a good idea, after some flexing it
will crack... thick plywood first, then the new floor... and add some
lolly collums in the basement to better support that floor.

On 3/16/2021 11:20 AM, Sheldon Martin wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 17:24:15 -0500, BryanGSimmons
> > wrote:
>
>> On 3/14/2021 7:59 PM, wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 7:00:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure some of you have tile walls in your kitchen. What would
>>>> motivate a person to paint over ceramic tile? In my son's new house,
>>>> he was originally intending to totally redo the kitchen, but he's
>>>> since reconsidered, and instead is opting to restore it to original,
>>>> except for the window. Instead of replacing the cabinets that have
>>>> layers of paint, I'm stripping them to bare wood, and repainting them
>>>> white. I'm also stripping the paint off of the original tile. That
>>>> blue is painted over a nice, deep burgundy tile.
>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>>>>
>>> That's awful looking.
>>>>
>>>> Here's what's underneath. The tile at the rear is only half stripped.
>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>>>>
>>> MUCH better. That will provide a nice accent color. But I wouldn't be so happy
>>> with the tile countertop. The grout lines with be a harbinger of bacteria.
>>
>> Chlorine bleach, concentrated peroxide and quat disinfectants are
>> very effective at killing bacteria. If you want to mix up a cheap
>> surface disinfectant that is chlorine free, 4 oz 99% isopropyl alcohol
>> added to 12 oz 40 volume clear developer is serious stuff. You don't
>> want to get it on your skin, but it dries with zero residue.
>> https://www.hbprochem.com/product-pa...-alcohol-16oz?
>> https://www.sallybeauty.com/hair-col.../SLNCAR67.html
>>>>
>>>> Of course, the vinyl asbestos floor tile has to go, but white ceramic
>>>> will maintain the old fashioned look. He even wants to replace the
>>>> modern induction range with the 1950s-'60s gas range we pulled out of
>>>> our rental property, which worked fine.
>>>>
>>> When you say the vinyl asbestos floor tile will have to go, can you elaborate?
>>> Professionally removed so as to not stir up asbestos particles?
>>>
>> I can remove it safely. I spent years working with VA tile. As long as
>> you keep it wet, and especially if you remove the tiles unbroken, no
>> asbestos fibers will become airborne. It needs to go because it's ugly.
>
> If that tile floor is reasonably flat and level it can be refloored
> directly over it... save a ton of labor and a huge mess. Any low
> spots can be shimmed up with tar paper. Our kitchen floor was that
> type of 12" tile, installed a Brazilian Cherry hardwood floor over
> it... adios puke green:
> https://postimg.cc/gallery/S8YDCLD
>
>
The tile is coming up enough where it needs to be removed. There's more
VA tile in an upstairs room that is really coming up. We'll get rid of
it all at the same time.
>


--
--Bryan
For your safety and protection, this sig. has been thoroughly
tested on laboratory animals.

On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 1:20:17 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:

> Obviously whoever installed your hardwood flooring was very
> inexperienced... should have noticed the movement and laid down 5/8"
> plywood before installing the hardwood.

My hardwood floors were installed in 1947 when the house was built.
The subfloor is 1x6" tongue and groove cedar, everywhere but the bathroom.
I already said the builder was a crap carpenter.

> >We're perpetually looking at remodeling the kitchen, and our first
> >choice for flooring is sheet vinyl. No seams, and flexible enough
> >to follow the movement of the subfloor.
> >
> >Cindy Hamilton
> Flexible vinyl doesn't seem like a good idea, after some flexing it
> will crack... thick plywood first, then the new floor... and add some
> lolly collums in the basement to better support that floor.

The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
for the suggestion.

Cindy Hamilton

On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
> for the suggestion.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
there??

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 16:31:21 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

>On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
>> for the suggestion.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton

Normally a joist would be set so the coloumb needn't be directly under
the kitchen... it's a very simple and inexpensive job for someone who
knows what they're doing. A joist could be made from three 2" x 8"s
bolted together... probably need a coloumb at each end of the joist.
Your house construction just needs some strenthening. I'm surprised
because older homes were over-built so that floors didn't bounce...
50+ years ago lumber was cheap... in fact back then lumber was full
size, a 2" x 4" was actually a full 2" x 4"... now lumber is 1/4"
less. Who ever built your house really cheaped out... a kitchen floor
should be rock solid.

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 1:20:17 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
>
>> Obviously whoever installed your hardwood flooring was very
>> inexperienced... should have noticed the movement and laid down 5/8"
>> plywood before installing the hardwood.
>
> My hardwood floors were installed in 1947 when the house was built.
> The subfloor is 1x6" tongue and groove cedar, everywhere but the bathroom.
> I already said the builder was a crap carpenter.
>
>>> We're perpetually looking at remodeling the kitchen, and our first
>>> choice for flooring is sheet vinyl. No seams, and flexible enough
>>> to follow the movement of the subfloor.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>> Flexible vinyl doesn't seem like a good idea, after some flexing it
>> will crack... thick plywood first, then the new floor... and add some
>> lolly collums in the basement to better support that floor.
>
> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
> for the suggestion.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

I thought you were going to say the RO water filter is in the way.

Sheldon Martin wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 16:31:21 -0700 (PDT), "
> > wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>
>>> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
>>> for the suggestion.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>
> Normally a joist would be set so the coloumb needn't be directly under
> the kitchen... it's a very simple and inexpensive job for someone who
> knows what they're doing. A joist could be made from three 2" x 8"s
> bolted together... probably need a coloumb at each end of the joist.
> Your house construction just needs some strenthening. I'm surprised
> because older homes were over-built so that floors didn't bounce...
> 50+ years ago lumber was cheap... in fact back then lumber was full
> size, a 2" x 4" was actually a full 2" x 4"... now lumber is 1/4"
> less. Who ever built your house really cheaped out... a kitchen floor
> should be rock solid.
>

She doesn't have the finest house in the universe like yoose, Popeye.

On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 7:31:25 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >
> > The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
> > for the suggestion.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
> How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
> there??

About 6 feet. I've never measured.

Cindy Hamilton

On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 8:26:02 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 16:31:21 -0700 (PDT), "
> > wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>
> >> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
> >> for the suggestion.
> >>
> >> Cindy Hamilton
> Normally a joist would be set so the coloumb needn't be directly under
> the kitchen... it's a very simple and inexpensive job for someone who
> knows what they're doing. A joist could be made from three 2" x 8"s
> bolted together... probably need a coloumb at each end of the joist.

You don't put columns at the ends of joists. You put them in the middle.

The basement has a concrete-block wall right down the middle, with
an opening in the middle that has a beefy steel lintel, just as it should.
This divides the space into two sections about 15 feet wide. The joists
sit on top of the block-wall foundation and on top of this wall. Gravity
holds them in place without any fasteners.

There are areas where there's no cross-bracing, so that the heating
ducts can run down a joist cavity. That, and the fact that the lumber
has shrunk over the past 74 years (and is consequently a little loose
around the nails) is what causes the movement.

> Your house construction just needs some strenthening. I'm surprised
> because older homes were over-built so that floors didn't bounce...
> 50+ years ago lumber was cheap... in fact back then lumber was full
> size, a 2" x 4" was actually a full 2" x 4"... now lumber is 1/4"
> less. Who ever built your house really cheaped out... a kitchen floor
> should be rock solid.

A lot of the lumber used in this house was reclaimed from other projects.
The rafters have some unnecessary cutouts in them.

Thanks for your comments. I'll take them under advisement.

Cindy Hamilton

BryanGSimmons wrote:
> The tile is coming up enough where it needs to be removed. There's more
> VA tile in an upstairs room that is really coming up. We'll get rid of
> it all at the same time.

And a good use for your N95 masks.

On 3/17/2021 7:31 PM, wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
>> for the suggestion.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
> How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
> there??

LOL. Maybe measure from floor to bottom of floor joists above?

On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 3:37:16 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 7:31:25 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> >
> > How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
> > there??
>
> About 6 feet. I've never measured.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
Oh, ok. You can buy those columns in many heights and they're adjustable,
too. All the ones in my dug-out basement are adjustable.

On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 11:40:10 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>
> On 3/17/2021 7:31 PM, wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>
> >> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
> >> for the suggestion.
> >>
> >> Cindy Hamilton
> >>
> > How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
> > there??
>
> LOL. Maybe measure from floor to bottom of floor joists above?
>
Gary, is it your mission in life to be the biggest dumbass on RFC? It must give
you great joy to be utterly stupid.

On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 12:40:10 PM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> On 3/17/2021 7:31 PM, wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>
> >> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
> >> for the suggestion.
> >>
> >> Cindy Hamilton
> >>
> > How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
> > there??
> LOL. Maybe measure from floor to bottom of floor joists above?

Of course. But since I'm not going to install lally columns, the fact that
that our 6'4" and 6'7" friends have to duck, is sufficient.

Cindy Hamilton

On 3/18/2021 12:53 PM, wrote:
> On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 11:40:10 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>>
>> On 3/17/2021 7:31 PM, wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
>>>> for the suggestion.
>>>>
>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>
>>> How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
>>> there??
>>
>> LOL. Maybe measure from floor to bottom of floor joists above?
>>
> Gary, is it your mission in life to be the biggest dumbass on RFC? It must give
> you great joy to be utterly stupid.

You asked a stupid question and you're calling me stupid?

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 9:35:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> On 3/18/2021 12:53 PM, wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 11:40:10 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> >>
> >> On 3/17/2021 7:31 PM, wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
> >>>> for the suggestion.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cindy Hamilton
> >>>>
> >>> How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
> >>> there??
> >>
> >> LOL. Maybe measure from floor to bottom of floor joists above?
> >>
> > Gary, is it your mission in life to be the biggest dumbass on RFC? It must give
> > you great joy to be utterly stupid.
> You asked a stupid question and you're calling me stupid?

She didn't ask ask a stupid question. She asked how long _I_ would need those
columns to be. She's never been in my basement, so she asked.

Cindy Hamilton

On 3/19/2021 9:44 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 9:35:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>> On 3/18/2021 12:53 PM, wrote:
>>> On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 11:40:10 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 3/17/2021 7:31 PM, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
>>>>>> for the suggestion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>>>
>>>>> How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
>>>>> there??
>>>>
>>>> LOL. Maybe measure from floor to bottom of floor joists above?
>>>>
>>> Gary, is it your mission in life to be the biggest dumbass on RFC? It must give
>>> you great joy to be utterly stupid.
>> You asked a stupid question and you're calling me stupid?
>
> She didn't ask ask a stupid question. She asked how long _I_ would need those
> columns to be. She's never been in my basement, so she asked.

Disagree. Why would she care about your basement?

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 10:32:25 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> On 3/19/2021 9:44 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 9:35:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> >> On 3/18/2021 12:53 PM, wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 11:40:10 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 3/17/2021 7:31 PM, wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
> >>>>>> for the suggestion.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
> >>>>> there??
> >>>>
> >>>> LOL. Maybe measure from floor to bottom of floor joists above?
> >>>>
> >>> Gary, is it your mission in life to be the biggest dumbass on RFC? It must give
> >>> you great joy to be utterly stupid.
> >> You asked a stupid question and you're calling me stupid?
> >
> > She didn't ask ask a stupid question. She asked how long _I_ would need those
> > columns to be. She's never been in my basement, so she asked.
> Disagree. Why would she care about your basement?

I don't know. Idle curiosity, perhaps. I answered with a guesstimate, since I'm
not buying lally columns from her.

Her question was clearly not a general one. It was directed specifically at me,
regarding my basement:

> >>>>> How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
> >>>>> there??


Cindy Hamilton

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 9:35:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> On 3/18/2021 12:53 PM, wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 11:40:10 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> >>
> >> On 3/17/2021 7:31 PM, wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
> >>>> for the suggestion.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cindy Hamilton
> >>>>
> >>> How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
> >>> there??
> >>
> >> LOL. Maybe measure from floor to bottom of floor joists above?
> >>
> > Gary, is it your mission in life to be the biggest dumbass on RFC? It must give
> > you great joy to be utterly stupid.
>
> You asked a stupid question and you're calling me stupid?

I thought the only stupid question was the one that wasn't asked.

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 06:44:23 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 9:35:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>> On 3/18/2021 12:53 PM, wrote:
>> > On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 11:40:10 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 3/17/2021 7:31 PM, wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
>> >>>> for the suggestion.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Cindy Hamilton
>> >>>>
>> >>> How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
>> >>> there??
>> >>
>> >> LOL. Maybe measure from floor to bottom of floor joists above?
>> >>
>> > Gary, is it your mission in life to be the biggest dumbass on RFC? It must give
>> > you great joy to be utterly stupid.
>> You asked a stupid question and you're calling me stupid?
>
>She didn't ask ask a stupid question. She asked how long _I_ would need those
>columns to be. She's never been in my basement, so she asked.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

THE COLUMN WOULD NEED TO BE LONG ENOUGH TO SPAN FROM FLOOR TO
CEILING.... WOULDN'T MATTER IF THAT DISTANCE WAS 1 FOOT OR 100 FEET.

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 10:32:13 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>On 3/19/2021 9:44 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 9:35:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>>> On 3/18/2021 12:53 PM, wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 11:40:10 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/17/2021 7:31 PM, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
>>>>>>> for the suggestion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
>>>>>> there??
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL. Maybe measure from floor to bottom of floor joists above?
>>>>>
>>>> Gary, is it your mission in life to be the biggest dumbass on RFC? It must give
>>>> you great joy to be utterly stupid.
>>> You asked a stupid question and you're calling me stupid?
>>
>> She didn't ask ask a stupid question. She asked how long _I_ would need those
>> columns to be. She's never been in my basement, so she asked.
>
>Disagree. Why would she care about your basement?

Correct, the person needs to have their own tape measure. I've had
people arrive without a tape measure and they were not considered.

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 2:32:59 PM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:

> THE COLUMN WOULD NEED TO BE LONG ENOUGH TO SPAN FROM FLOOR TO
> CEILING.... WOULDN'T MATTER IF THAT DISTANCE WAS 1 FOOT OR 100 FEET.

why are you shouting?

Cindy Hamilton

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 07:56:03 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 10:32:25 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>> On 3/19/2021 9:44 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> > On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 9:35:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>> >> On 3/18/2021 12:53 PM, wrote:
>> >>> On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 11:40:10 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 3/17/2021 7:31 PM, wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
>> >>>>>> for the suggestion.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
>> >>>>> there??
>> >>>>
>> >>>> LOL. Maybe measure from floor to bottom of floor joists above?
>> >>>>
>> >>> Gary, is it your mission in life to be the biggest dumbass on RFC? It must give
>> >>> you great joy to be utterly stupid.
>> >> You asked a stupid question and you're calling me stupid?
>> >
>> > She didn't ask ask a stupid question. She asked how long _I_ would need those
>> > columns to be. She's never been in my basement, so she asked.
>> Disagree. Why would she care about your basement?
>
>I don't know. Idle curiosity, perhaps. I answered with a guesstimate, since I'm
>not buying lally columns from her.

You just like to say "lally".

--
The real Bruce posts with Eternal September

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 8:35:47 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>
> On 3/18/2021 12:53 PM, wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 11:40:10 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> >>
> >> On 3/17/2021 7:31 PM, wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
> >>>> for the suggestion.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cindy Hamilton
> >>>>
> >>> How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
> >>> there??
> >>
> >> LOL. Maybe measure from floor to bottom of floor joists above?
> >>
> > Gary, is it your mission in life to be the biggest dumbass on RFC? It must give
> > you great joy to be utterly stupid.
> >
> You asked a stupid question and you're calling me stupid?
>
It was not a stupid question. She might have had only a crawl space or even a
full basement. But continue on with your stupidity; you're good at that.

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 9:32:25 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>
> On 3/19/2021 9:44 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> > On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 9:35:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>
> >> On 3/18/2021 12:53 PM, wrote:
> >>>
> >> You asked a stupid question and you're calling me stupid?
> >
> > She didn't ask ask a stupid question. She asked how long _I_ would need those
> > columns to be. She's never been in my basement, so she asked.
>
> Disagree. Why would she care about your basement?
>
Why do you care about Jill's inheritance?

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 6:22:36 AM UTC-10, bruce bowser wrote:
> On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 9:35:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> > On 3/18/2021 12:53 PM, wrote:
> > > On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 11:40:10 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On 3/17/2021 7:31 PM, wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 2:28:49 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The furnace is below the kitchen. No room for lally columns. But thanks
> > >>>> for the suggestion.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Cindy Hamilton
> > >>>>
> > >>> How tall would you need those columns if you should opt to place them down
> > >>> there??
> > >>
> > >> LOL. Maybe measure from floor to bottom of floor joists above?
> > >>
> > > Gary, is it your mission in life to be the biggest dumbass on RFC? It must give
> > > you great joy to be utterly stupid.
> >
> > You asked a stupid question and you're calling me stupid?
> I thought the only stupid question was the one that wasn't asked.

There's no such thing as a stupid question - only stupid people.

In article >,
says...
>
> On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 9:32:25 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> >
> > On 3/19/2021 9:44 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >
> > > On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 9:35:47 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> >
> > >> On 3/18/2021 12:53 PM, wrote:
> > >>>
> > >> You asked a stupid question and you're calling me stupid?
> > >
> > > She didn't ask ask a stupid question. She asked how long _I_ would need those
> > > columns to be. She's never been in my basement, so she asked.
> >
> > Disagree. Why would she care about your basement?
> >
> Why do you care about Jill's inheritance?

Because he hasn't got one and he's jealous. He's also embarrassed that
Jill have up her apartment, job and life hundreds of miles away and
went to help her Mum nurse her sick Dad. Which Garry did not.

Jill also devoted years to living with and caring for her frail
widowed mother; Which Gary does not.

Jill makes Gary look bad and feel bad.

Next question

Janet UK

bruce bowser wrote:
> Gary wrote:
>> You asked a stupid question and you're calling me stupid?
>
> I thought the only stupid question was the one that wasn't asked.

OK, you're right.
"There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers."

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 8:20:01 AM UTC-10, Gary wrote:
> bruce bowser wrote:
> > Gary wrote:
> >> You asked a stupid question and you're calling me stupid?
> >
> > I thought the only stupid question was the one that wasn't asked.
> OK, you're right.
> "There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers."

I think that responding to a stupid question with a stupid answer is the smart thing to do.