On 2021-04-05 9:51 a.m., Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2021-04-05 11:31 a.m., Graham wrote:
>> On 2021-04-05 9:23 a.m., Dave Smith wrote:
>
>>> I still have to make a batch of dough, so that will be 3-4 mini pies,
>>> which will have to be eaten while fresh.
>>>
>>> I havce a compromise. The corner baker sells a mini apple ginger pie.
>>> It is amazing.Â* I can get away with one of those once in a while.
>>
>> I really don't understand people's reluctance to make pastry. I never
>> have any problems and, like my Mother, never chill it in the fridge. I
>> make it and roll it out straight away and it is tender and not tough.
>> I intend to make a batch using vodka instead of water one of these
>> days. It will be for home consumption though. One of the recipients of
>> my almond tarts is in AA.
>
> I can understand it. Some people just can't make it and find it too much
> work and mess for bad results. I don't know why they have trouble. I
> have a recipe memorized.Â* I put the flour, salt and shortening into a
> large bowl and cut the shortening in, but not too much. I then beat an
> egg and add a couple teaspoons cold water and one of vinegar and then
> use a very large fork to stir that in. I make a bowl, cut it in half,
> form each half into a ball, put in on a piece of waxed paper, press it
> into a disk and stick it in the fridge while I prepare the fruit.
>
> I use a pastry cloth and a French rolling pin. I throw some flour on the
> sheet and sprinkle a little more on top and roll it out, changing the
> angle about 30 degrees each time and I get a nice round sheet of dough.
>
> I have lots of experience but I cannot credit that experience for my
> ease with the process because I always found it easy.Â* Not everyone does.
>
> OTOH, I don't like doing fiddly things, like making tarts, or cutting
> shaped cookies. Forget about fancy icing.

Since I use pastry flour rather than AP, which here is a decent bread
flour, I can leave out the fridge time.
Iuse butter and/or lard NEVER Crisco.

On 2021-04-05 10:16 a.m., Graham wrote:
> On 2021-04-05 9:51 a.m., Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2021-04-05 11:31 a.m., Graham wrote:
>>> On 2021-04-05 9:23 a.m., Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>>> I still have to make a batch of dough, so that will be 3-4 mini
>>>> pies, which will have to be eaten while fresh.
>>>>
>>>> I havce a compromise. The corner baker sells a mini apple ginger
>>>> pie. It is amazing.Â* I can get away with one of those once in a while.
>>>
>>> I really don't understand people's reluctance to make pastry. I never
>>> have any problems and, like my Mother, never chill it in the fridge.
>>> I make it and roll it out straight away and it is tender and not tough.
>>> I intend to make a batch using vodka instead of water one of these
>>> days. It will be for home consumption though. One of the recipients
>>> of my almond tarts is in AA.
>>
>> I can understand it. Some people just can't make it and find it too
>> much work and mess for bad results. I don't know why they have
>> trouble. I have a recipe memorized.Â* I put the flour, salt and
>> shortening into a large bowl and cut the shortening in, but not too
>> much. I then beat an egg and add a couple teaspoons cold water and one
>> of vinegar and then use a very large fork to stir that in. I make a
>> bowl, cut it in half, form each half into a ball, put in on a piece of
>> waxed paper, press it into a disk and stick it in the fridge while I
>> prepare the fruit.
>>
>> I use a pastry cloth and a French rolling pin. I throw some flour on
>> the sheet and sprinkle a little more on top and roll it out, changing
>> the angle about 30 degrees each time and I get a nice round sheet of
>> dough.
>>
>> I have lots of experience but I cannot credit that experience for my
>> ease with the process because I always found it easy.Â* Not everyone does.
>>
>> OTOH, I don't like doing fiddly things, like making tarts, or cutting
>> shaped cookies. Forget about fancy icing.
>
> Since I use pastry flour rather than AP, which here is a decent bread
> flour, I can leave out the fridge time.
> Iuse butter and/or lard NEVER Crisco.

I also weigh the ingredients:-)
I do use eggs for some pastries, generally when I'm following a French
recipe.

On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 10:54:57 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> On 2021-04-05 11:35 a.m., wrote:
>
> > On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 10:31:29 AM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
> >>
> >> I really don't understand people's reluctance to make pastry. I never
> >> have any problems and, like my Mother, never chill it in the fridge. I
> >> make it and roll it out straight away and it is tender and not tough.
> >>
> > Because I'm a lazy turd? That's pretty much my excuse.
> >
> We will give you full marks for honesty ;-)
>
Thank you, thank you (takes a small bow in gratitude). You know it's always
been said "honesty is the best policy" and it's true.

On 2021-04-05 12:19 p.m., wrote:
> On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 10:54:57 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> On 2021-04-05 11:35 a.m., wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 10:31:29 AM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I really don't understand people's reluctance to make pastry. I never
>>>> have any problems and, like my Mother, never chill it in the fridge. I
>>>> make it and roll it out straight away and it is tender and not tough.
>>>>
>>> Because I'm a lazy turd? That's pretty much my excuse.
>>>
>> We will give you full marks for honesty ;-)
>>
> Thank you, thank you (takes a small bow in gratitude). You know it's always
> been said "honesty is the best policy" and it's true.
>


It is an especially good policy to follow in a group where there are a
few people who are quick to call you liars. As I have said in the past,
there are some people lie so often that they assume that everyone else
does too. I was accused of lying here a couple weeks ago when I posted
about Ohfeelme emailing me. She was upset and call me a liar, but
everyone with a mail reader was able to view the source of the post and
see that it had been sent to me and to the group.

On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 10:08:52 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> On 4/4/2021 5:25 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> > On 4/4/2021 3:14 PM, S Viemeister wrote:
> >> On 04/04/2021 19:12, jmcquown wrote:
> >>
> >>> TIAD! Sorry, but canned asparagus is some of the worst stuff. As
> >>> for the soup, you might as well buy Campbell's Cream of Asparagus
> >>> soup (that stuff sucks) if you're going to dump canned asparagus in a
> >>> pot and call it soup.
> >>>
> >> I thought I hated asparagus, as my first exposure to it was that
> >> revolting canned stuff.
> >>
> >> I later learned that fresh, and properly cooked, it's delicious.
> >
> > Mom served canned asparagus when I was growing up. I'd eat it but I
> > couldn't say I loved it. Then I tasted fresh and wow, what a
> > difference!
> >
> > Jill
>
> I never had fresh seafood growing up at home. Only frozen fish sticks. lol

We had fresh whitefish, but then they had to ruin it by breading it in cornflake
crumbs and pan frying it until "more than well done".

Cindy Hamilton

On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 12:14:40 -0300, Lucretia Borgia
> wrote:

>On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 07:45:50 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:
>
>>On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 9:10:05 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>>>
>>> On 4/4/2021 7:35 PM, wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Sunday, April 4, 2021 at 8:53:41 AM UTC-5, gary wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >> It's a store made crust. Jill can't be bothered to make her own. She's a
>>> >> half-ass cook.
>>> >>
>>> > So are all of mine, whether for a pie or a pot pie; they're all store-bought.
>>> > I guess that makes me a half-assed cook, too.
>>> >
>>> Homemade is so much better and it doesn't have to look pretty and be
>>> perfect. I just like them better.
>>>
>>I've had some good homemade pie crusts and I've had some that the person
>>who made the crust needs to work on their recipe. So saying "homemad is
>>so much better" is not always true even if you like to think so.
>>>
>>> You write very finicky about other foods here. I'm suprised that you
>>> would settle for premade pie crusts from the grocery store.
>>>
>>I need a pie crust so rarely so why make one when I've got a frozen one
>>in the freezer awaiting me. What 'finicky' foods do I write about other than
>>Brussel sprouts and lamb?
>
>I make my own, effortless with a food processor and make double what I
>need. Put half away in freezer for next time.


I have no difficulty in the mixing of the pastry, but I have never, in
all my dog's ears of cooking and baking, been decent at rolling out a
single or double crust and having it look any better than a pastry
patchwork quilt.

I used to watch a friend make her pie crusts- her ingredients were no
different then mine, but she could take a disk of dough and turn it
into the most beautiful, fluted thing with a lattice top and
decorative overlays- nicer than anything I had ever seen outside a
magazine.

I have tried them all, from lard to butter to Crisco- with vodka,
without vodka, by hand, by processor, by the Gods, I just cannot do
it.

On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 11:56:53 AM UTC-5, Boron Elgar wrote:
>
> I have no difficulty in the mixing of the pastry, but I have never, in
> all my dog's ears of cooking and baking, been decent at rolling out a
> single or double crust and having it look any better than a pastry
> patchwork quilt.
>
> I used to watch a friend make her pie crusts- her ingredients were no
> different then mine, but she could take a disk of dough and turn it
> into the most beautiful, fluted thing with a lattice top and
> decorative overlays- nicer than anything I had ever seen outside a
> magazine.
>
> I have tried them all, from lard to butter to Crisco- with vodka,
> without vodka, by hand, by processor, by the Gods, I just cannot do
> it.
>
I've watched them do countless pie crusts on America's Test Kitchen,
Martha Stewart, Ina Garten, and Alton Brown. All do a roll or two, turn
the crust slightly, a roll or two, turn the crust, and repeat as many times
as it takes to get the shape they desire.

I do remember one episode of A.B. rolling a pie crust and he said NOT
to roll the crust to the left, right, and center or any of those variations.
He said roll the pin a couple of times in one direction only, turn the crust,
and repeat as many times as it takes you to get your correct shape and
thickness.

On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 09:31:23 -0600, Graham > wrote:

>On 2021-04-05 9:23 a.m., Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2021-04-05 10:40 a.m., wrote:
>>> On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 8:49:12 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 2021-04-04 11:26 p.m., US Janet wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I might make a dessert pie one
>>>>> every year or two. Pie isn't important to us anymore. After a couple
>>>>> pieces the rest just sits there.
>>>>>
>>>> I have the opposite problem. I like it too much. My wife avoids carbs,
>>>> so it is just me to eat most of the pie. They taste best when fresh and
>>>> go downhill quickly, so they get eaten up way to fast, and that is not
>>>> good for the diet.
>>>>
>>> Have you tried to make a mini pie?* You can get the pie pans at most any
>>> craft store.* Walmart might even stock them.
>>>
>>
>> I still have to make a batch of dough, so that will be 3-4 mini pies,
>> which will have to be eaten while fresh.
>>
>> I havce a compromise. The corner baker sells a mini apple ginger pie. It
>> is amazing.* I can get away with one of those once in a while.
>
>I really don't understand people's reluctance to make pastry. I never
>have any problems and, like my Mother, never chill it in the fridge. I
>make it and roll it out straight away and it is tender and not tough.
>I intend to make a batch using vodka instead of water one of these days.
>It will be for home consumption though. One of the recipients of my
>almond tarts is in AA.

When you cook the pastry the alcohol will be burned off.

On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 12:56:47 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 12:14:40 -0300, Lucretia Borgia
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 07:45:50 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 9:10:05 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 4/4/2021 7:35 PM, wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Sunday, April 4, 2021 at 8:53:41 AM UTC-5, gary wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> It's a store made crust. Jill can't be bothered to make her own. She's a
>>>> >> half-ass cook.
>>>> >>
>>>> > So are all of mine, whether for a pie or a pot pie; they're all store-bought.
>>>> > I guess that makes me a half-assed cook, too.
>>>> >
>>>> Homemade is so much better and it doesn't have to look pretty and be
>>>> perfect. I just like them better.
>>>>
>>>I've had some good homemade pie crusts and I've had some that the person
>>>who made the crust needs to work on their recipe. So saying "homemad is
>>>so much better" is not always true even if you like to think so.
>>>>
>>>> You write very finicky about other foods here. I'm suprised that you
>>>> would settle for premade pie crusts from the grocery store.
>>>>
>>>I need a pie crust so rarely so why make one when I've got a frozen one
>>>in the freezer awaiting me. What 'finicky' foods do I write about other than
>>>Brussel sprouts and lamb?
>>
>>I make my own, effortless with a food processor and make double what I
>>need. Put half away in freezer for next time.
>
>
>I have no difficulty in the mixing of the pastry, but I have never, in
>all my dog's ears of cooking and baking, been decent at rolling out a
>single or double crust and having it look any better than a pastry
>patchwork quilt.
>
>I used to watch a friend make her pie crusts- her ingredients were no
>different then mine, but she could take a disk of dough and turn it
>into the most beautiful, fluted thing with a lattice top and
>decorative overlays- nicer than anything I had ever seen outside a
>magazine.
>
>I have tried them all, from lard to butter to Crisco- with vodka,
>without vodka, by hand, by processor, by the Gods, I just cannot do
>it.

Okay, I thought it was the making people didn't like, didn't occur to
me it was the rolling.

On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:21:50 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2021-04-05 10:35 a.m., Mike Duffy wrote:
>> On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 10:44:48 -0300, Lucretia Borgia wrote:
>>
>>> in about 1948 the federal government decided there was a confusing
>>> number of apple types and the order went out that all trees were to be
>>> cut down, save a Canadian variety.
>>
>> Do we still operate under this regulation? It seems to me that during the
>> last 73 years the benefits of biodiversity have become much more accepted.
>>
>
>I can't find any documentation regarding the government ordering that
>apple trees be cut down to save Canadian varieties. That would not
>make a lot of sense because apple trees can be grafted to bear a
>different variety. Then there is the issue of agriculture being a
>provincial jurisdiction.
>
>We have lots of apple orchards around here and I can usually get a wide
>range of locally grown varieties. There used to be close to 20 acres of
>apple orchard next door to us and the farmer had a variety of apple
>types. They all got pruned and sprayed at the same time, but harvest
>times were different, so he could deal with one variety at a time. FWIW,
>one of the varieties he grew was Mitsui, which were from Japanese stock.

When Lucretia said that, something tickled my brain. I faintly
remember reading something like that but I don't remember that it was
only apples, or apples for the US or varieties of vegetables at the
beginning of the last century. Maybe it applies to all.
However in the U.S., there is currently a group of men traveling the
(West or all U.S.?) traveling the back roads looking for abandoned
farms and the like, seeking out forgotten apples. They collect what
they find and send them off to be tested for unique DNA. There is
another grooup operating out of the East. Thousands of apples have
been rediscovered.
See Lost Apple Project and Apple Search. At one time there were
17,000 named varieties of apples in the U.S. Now we are down to
4,500.
Sorry for getting on a hobby horse. This is just a pet project that I
follow. I'm all for broadening our scope of edible foods and
protecting them.
Janet US

On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 11:31:29 -0600, US Janet >
wrote:

>On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:21:50 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:
>
>>On 2021-04-05 10:35 a.m., Mike Duffy wrote:
>>> On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 10:44:48 -0300, Lucretia Borgia wrote:
>>>
>>>> in about 1948 the federal government decided there was a confusing
>>>> number of apple types and the order went out that all trees were to be
>>>> cut down, save a Canadian variety.
>>>
>>> Do we still operate under this regulation? It seems to me that during the
>>> last 73 years the benefits of biodiversity have become much more accepted.
>>>
>>
>>I can't find any documentation regarding the government ordering that
>>apple trees be cut down to save Canadian varieties. That would not
>>make a lot of sense because apple trees can be grafted to bear a
>>different variety. Then there is the issue of agriculture being a
>>provincial jurisdiction.
>>
>>We have lots of apple orchards around here and I can usually get a wide
>>range of locally grown varieties. There used to be close to 20 acres of
>>apple orchard next door to us and the farmer had a variety of apple
>>types. They all got pruned and sprayed at the same time, but harvest
>>times were different, so he could deal with one variety at a time. FWIW,
>>one of the varieties he grew was Mitsui, which were from Japanese stock.
>
>When Lucretia said that, something tickled my brain. I faintly
>remember reading something like that but I don't remember that it was
>only apples, or apples for the US or varieties of vegetables at the
>beginning of the last century. Maybe it applies to all.
>However in the U.S., there is currently a group of men traveling the
>(West or all U.S.?) traveling the back roads looking for abandoned
>farms and the like, seeking out forgotten apples. They collect what
>they find and send them off to be tested for unique DNA. There is
>another grooup operating out of the East. Thousands of apples have
>been rediscovered.
>See Lost Apple Project and Apple Search. At one time there were
>17,000 named varieties of apples in the U.S. Now we are down to
>4,500.
>Sorry for getting on a hobby horse. This is just a pet project that I
>follow. I'm all for broadening our scope of edible foods and
>protecting them.
>Janet US

Very interesting - I can't say I knew it was so, only that a then
elderly farmer told me that in the early 70s when I wondered about
nearly all the trees in the valley being Mcintosh apples. These days
there are plenty of varieties thankfully, still nothing as good as a
Bramley for cooking purposes though

On 2021-04-05 11:49 a.m., Lucretia Borgia wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 11:31:29 -0600, US Janet >
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:21:50 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-04-05 10:35 a.m., Mike Duffy wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 10:44:48 -0300, Lucretia Borgia wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> in about 1948 the federal government decided there was a confusing
>>>>> number of apple types and the order went out that all trees were to be
>>>>> cut down, save a Canadian variety.
>>>>
>>>> Do we still operate under this regulation? It seems to me that during the
>>>> last 73 years the benefits of biodiversity have become much more accepted.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I can't find any documentation regarding the government ordering that
>>> apple trees be cut down to save Canadian varieties. That would not
>>> make a lot of sense because apple trees can be grafted to bear a
>>> different variety. Then there is the issue of agriculture being a
>>> provincial jurisdiction.
>>>
>>> We have lots of apple orchards around here and I can usually get a wide
>>> range of locally grown varieties. There used to be close to 20 acres of
>>> apple orchard next door to us and the farmer had a variety of apple
>>> types. They all got pruned and sprayed at the same time, but harvest
>>> times were different, so he could deal with one variety at a time. FWIW,
>>> one of the varieties he grew was Mitsui, which were from Japanese stock.
>>
>> When Lucretia said that, something tickled my brain. I faintly
>> remember reading something like that but I don't remember that it was
>> only apples, or apples for the US or varieties of vegetables at the
>> beginning of the last century. Maybe it applies to all.
>> However in the U.S., there is currently a group of men traveling the
>> (West or all U.S.?) traveling the back roads looking for abandoned
>> farms and the like, seeking out forgotten apples. They collect what
>> they find and send them off to be tested for unique DNA. There is
>> another grooup operating out of the East. Thousands of apples have
>> been rediscovered.
>> See Lost Apple Project and Apple Search. At one time there were
>> 17,000 named varieties of apples in the U.S. Now we are down to
>> 4,500.
>> Sorry for getting on a hobby horse. This is just a pet project that I
>> follow. I'm all for broadening our scope of edible foods and
>> protecting them.
>> Janet US
>
> Very interesting - I can't say I knew it was so, only that a then
> elderly farmer told me that in the early 70s when I wondered about
> nearly all the trees in the valley being Mcintosh apples. These days
> there are plenty of varieties thankfully, still nothing as good as a
> Bramley for cooking purposes though
>
Have you ever seen a Laxton Superb? They are HUGE!!!! Probably 1lb or
more each!

On 2021-04-05 11:16 a.m., Lucretia Borgia wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 09:31:23 -0600, Graham > wrote:
>
>> On 2021-04-05 9:23 a.m., Dave Smith wrote:
>>> On 2021-04-05 10:40 a.m., wrote:
>>>> On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 8:49:12 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2021-04-04 11:26 p.m., US Janet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I might make a dessert pie one
>>>>>> every year or two. Pie isn't important to us anymore. After a couple
>>>>>> pieces the rest just sits there.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I have the opposite problem. I like it too much. My wife avoids carbs,
>>>>> so it is just me to eat most of the pie. They taste best when fresh and
>>>>> go downhill quickly, so they get eaten up way to fast, and that is not
>>>>> good for the diet.
>>>>>
>>>> Have you tried to make a mini pie?Â* You can get the pie pans at most any
>>>> craft store.Â* Walmart might even stock them.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I still have to make a batch of dough, so that will be 3-4 mini pies,
>>> which will have to be eaten while fresh.
>>>
>>> I havce a compromise. The corner baker sells a mini apple ginger pie. It
>>> is amazing.Â* I can get away with one of those once in a while.
>>
>> I really don't understand people's reluctance to make pastry. I never
>> have any problems and, like my Mother, never chill it in the fridge. I
>> make it and roll it out straight away and it is tender and not tough.
>> I intend to make a batch using vodka instead of water one of these days.
>> It will be for home consumption though. One of the recipients of my
>> almond tarts is in AA.
>
> When you cook the pastry the alcohol will be burned off.
>
"Studies show that" some remains, at least in casseroles etc. I aint
about to risk it.

On 05/04/2021 16:14, Lucretia Borgia wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 07:45:50 -0700 (PDT), "
> > wrote:
>
>> I need a pie crust so rarely so why make one when I've got a frozen one
>> in the freezer awaiting me. What 'finicky' foods do I write about other than
>> Brussel sprouts and lamb?
>
> I make my own, effortless with a food processor and make double what I
> need. Put half away in freezer for next time.
>
As do I. The food processor method works really well.

On 05/04/2021 17:18, Graham wrote:
> On 2021-04-05 10:16 a.m., Graham wrote:

>> Since I use pastry flour rather than AP, which here is a decent bread
>> flour, I can leave out the fridge time.
>> I use butter and/or lard NEVER Crisco.
>
> I also weigh the ingredients:-)
> I do use eggs for some pastries, generally when I'm following a French
> recipe.

I sometimes use an egg yolk as part of the liquid, then use the white to
brush the bottom crust before adding the filling. It seems to help avoid
mushiness.
I most often use half lard, half butter, sometimes all butter, but never
Crisco.
And I weigh the ingredients.

On 2021-04-05 12:25 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
> On 05/04/2021 16:14, Lucretia Borgia wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 07:45:50 -0700 (PDT), "
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I need a pie crust so rarely so why make one when I've got a frozen one
>>> in the freezer awaiting me.Â* What 'finicky' foods do I write about
>>> other than
>>> Brussel sprouts and lamb?
>>
>> I make my own, effortless with a food processor and make double what I
>> need.Â* Put half away in freezer for next time.
>>
> As do I. The food processor method works really well.
>


I used my FP yesterday to make bread. It takes only about a minute to
knead the dough. I made 2 batches totalling about 2200g and combined
them on the bench before proving.

On 05/04/2021 16:33, wrote:
> On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 10:23:38 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2021-04-05 10:40 a.m., wrote:
>>> Have you tried to make a mini pie? You can get the pie pans at most any
>>> craft store. Walmart might even stock them.
>> I still have to make a batch of dough, so that will be 3-4 mini pies,
>> which will have to be eaten while fresh.
>>
> Maybe cut your dough recipe in half?

Or freeze the extra, to use the next time you want to treat yourself.

On 2021-04-05 12:34 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
> On 05/04/2021 17:18, Graham wrote:
>> On 2021-04-05 10:16 a.m., Graham wrote:
>
>>> Since I use pastry flour rather than AP, which here is a decent bread
>>> flour, I can leave out the fridge time.
>>> I use butter and/or lard NEVER Crisco.
>>
>> I also weigh the ingredients:-)
>> I do use eggs for some pastries, generally when I'm following a French
>> recipe.
>
> I sometimes use an egg yolk as part of the liquid, then use the white to
> brush the bottom crust before adding the filling. It seems to help avoid
> mushiness.

I like that idea. St. Delia suggests something similar. Do you then
pre-bake the shell?

> I most often use half lard, half butter, sometimes all butter, but never
> Crisco.
> And I weigh the ingredients.
>
So many British baking books that get re-published in N.America, state
that AP is the equivalent of UK plain flour. It isn't!!

On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 07:45:50 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

>On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 9:10:05 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>>
>> On 4/4/2021 7:35 PM, wrote:
>>
>> > On Sunday, April 4, 2021 at 8:53:41 AM UTC-5, gary wrote:
>> >>>
>> >> It's a store made crust. Jill can't be bothered to make her own. She's a
>> >> half-ass cook.
>> >>
>> > So are all of mine, whether for a pie or a pot pie; they're all store-bought.
>> > I guess that makes me a half-assed cook, too.
>> >
>> Homemade is so much better and it doesn't have to look pretty and be
>> perfect. I just like them better.
>>
>I've had some good homemade pie crusts and I've had some that the person
>who made the crust needs to work on their recipe. So saying "homemad is
>so much better" is not always true even if you like to think so.

The ingredients are probably better.

--
The real Dr. Bruce posts with uni-berlin.de - individual.net

On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 12:38:37 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2021-04-05 12:19 p.m., wrote:
>> On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 10:54:57 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>
>>> We will give you full marks for honesty ;-)
>>>
>> Thank you, thank you (takes a small bow in gratitude). You know it's always
>> been said "honesty is the best policy" and it's true.
>>
>It is an especially good policy to follow in a group where there are a
>few people who are quick to call you liars. As I have said in the past,
>there are some people lie so often that they assume that everyone else
>does too. I was accused of lying here a couple weeks ago when I posted
>about Ohfeelme emailing me. She was upset and call me a liar, but
>everyone with a mail reader was able to view the source of the post and
>see that it had been sent to me and to the group.

You were too dumb to realise that a) they were not intentionally sent
emails, but automated copies of newsgroup posts and that b) she wasn't
doing it on purpose.

So I wouldn't be too proud of the drama that you made of this.

On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 11:31:29 -0600, US Janet >
wrote:


>See Lost Apple Project and Apple Search. At one time there were
>17,000 named varieties of apples in the U.S. Now we are down to
>4,500.
>Sorry for getting on a hobby horse. This is just a pet project that I
>follow. I'm all for broadening our scope of edible foods and
>protecting them.
>Janet US


Food and flavor-wise, is not always easy to find interesting apples,
but these also are important projects for any number of reasons.

Overall, genetic diversity makes our food supplies safer in case of
disease or climate change (as you mention), both of which we see these
days. As farmlands are lost to changing work and weather patterns and
populations grow, the pressures and dangers of monoculture are
evident.

On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:57:11 -0600, Graham > wrote:

>On 2021-04-05 11:49 a.m., Lucretia Borgia wrote:
>> On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 11:31:29 -0600, US Janet >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:21:50 -0400, Dave Smith
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2021-04-05 10:35 a.m., Mike Duffy wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 10:44:48 -0300, Lucretia Borgia wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> in about 1948 the federal government decided there was a confusing
>>>>>> number of apple types and the order went out that all trees were to be
>>>>>> cut down, save a Canadian variety.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do we still operate under this regulation? It seems to me that during the
>>>>> last 73 years the benefits of biodiversity have become much more accepted.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I can't find any documentation regarding the government ordering that
>>>> apple trees be cut down to save Canadian varieties. That would not
>>>> make a lot of sense because apple trees can be grafted to bear a
>>>> different variety. Then there is the issue of agriculture being a
>>>> provincial jurisdiction.
>>>>
>>>> We have lots of apple orchards around here and I can usually get a wide
>>>> range of locally grown varieties. There used to be close to 20 acres of
>>>> apple orchard next door to us and the farmer had a variety of apple
>>>> types. They all got pruned and sprayed at the same time, but harvest
>>>> times were different, so he could deal with one variety at a time. FWIW,
>>>> one of the varieties he grew was Mitsui, which were from Japanese stock.
>>>
>>> When Lucretia said that, something tickled my brain. I faintly
>>> remember reading something like that but I don't remember that it was
>>> only apples, or apples for the US or varieties of vegetables at the
>>> beginning of the last century. Maybe it applies to all.
>>> However in the U.S., there is currently a group of men traveling the
>>> (West or all U.S.?) traveling the back roads looking for abandoned
>>> farms and the like, seeking out forgotten apples. They collect what
>>> they find and send them off to be tested for unique DNA. There is
>>> another grooup operating out of the East. Thousands of apples have
>>> been rediscovered.
>>> See Lost Apple Project and Apple Search. At one time there were
>>> 17,000 named varieties of apples in the U.S. Now we are down to
>>> 4,500.
>>> Sorry for getting on a hobby horse. This is just a pet project that I
>>> follow. I'm all for broadening our scope of edible foods and
>>> protecting them.
>>> Janet US
>>
>> Very interesting - I can't say I knew it was so, only that a then
>> elderly farmer told me that in the early 70s when I wondered about
>> nearly all the trees in the valley being Mcintosh apples. These days
>> there are plenty of varieties thankfully, still nothing as good as a
>> Bramley for cooking purposes though
>>
>Have you ever seen a Laxton Superb? They are HUGE!!!! Probably 1lb or
>more each!

Think I would have noticed if I had!!!

On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:58:38 -0600, Graham > wrote:

>On 2021-04-05 11:16 a.m., Lucretia Borgia wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 09:31:23 -0600, Graham > wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-04-05 9:23 a.m., Dave Smith wrote:
>>>> On 2021-04-05 10:40 a.m., wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 8:49:12 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2021-04-04 11:26 p.m., US Janet wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I might make a dessert pie one
>>>>>>> every year or two. Pie isn't important to us anymore. After a couple
>>>>>>> pieces the rest just sits there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have the opposite problem. I like it too much. My wife avoids carbs,
>>>>>> so it is just me to eat most of the pie. They taste best when fresh and
>>>>>> go downhill quickly, so they get eaten up way to fast, and that is not
>>>>>> good for the diet.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Have you tried to make a mini pie?* You can get the pie pans at most any
>>>>> craft store.* Walmart might even stock them.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I still have to make a batch of dough, so that will be 3-4 mini pies,
>>>> which will have to be eaten while fresh.
>>>>
>>>> I havce a compromise. The corner baker sells a mini apple ginger pie. It
>>>> is amazing.* I can get away with one of those once in a while.
>>>
>>> I really don't understand people's reluctance to make pastry. I never
>>> have any problems and, like my Mother, never chill it in the fridge. I
>>> make it and roll it out straight away and it is tender and not tough.
>>> I intend to make a batch using vodka instead of water one of these days.
>>> It will be for home consumption though. One of the recipients of my
>>> almond tarts is in AA.
>>
>> When you cook the pastry the alcohol will be burned off.
>>
>"Studies show that" some remains, at least in casseroles etc. I aint
>about to risk it.

Okay, if studies show...

On 2021-04-05 12:56 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

> I have no difficulty in the mixing of the pastry, but I have never, in
> all my dog's ears of cooking and baking, been decent at rolling out a
> single or double crust and having it look any better than a pastry
> patchwork quilt.
>
> I used to watch a friend make her pie crusts- her ingredients were no
> different then mine, but she could take a disk of dough and turn it
> into the most beautiful, fluted thing with a lattice top and
> decorative overlays- nicer than anything I had ever seen outside a
> magazine.
>
> I have tried them all, from lard to butter to Crisco- with vodka,
> without vodka, by hand, by processor, by the Gods, I just cannot do
> it.

I only cool mine for about 10 minutes,as long as it takes me to prepare
the filling. If you cool it too much it can get quite hard and difficult
to roll out. I flour the pastry cloth put the cooled dough disk down and
sprinkle it with a little more flour and press it out a little by hand.
Then I go at it with the roller. I start about about 1/3 of the way
across the disk and roll out, then start in the same relative position
but at 30-40 degrees from the previous stroke. If it starts getting a
little oblong I shift and go perpendicular the the long side. I don't
get them perfectly round, but I generally manage to get it spread out
enough to be able to fit into the pan with a little surplus all or most
of the way around.

On 2021-04-05 1:13 p.m., wrote:
> On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 11:56:53 AM UTC-5, Boron Elgar wrote:

>> I have tried them all, from lard to butter to Crisco- with vodka,
>> without vodka, by hand, by processor, by the Gods, I just cannot do
>> it.
>>
> I've watched them do countless pie crusts on America's Test Kitchen,
> Martha Stewart, Ina Garten, and Alton Brown. All do a roll or two, turn
> the crust slightly, a roll or two, turn the crust, and repeat as many times
> as it takes to get the shape they desire.

I don't usually turn the pastry. I just change the angle at which I am
rolling it.



>
> I do remember one episode of A.B. rolling a pie crust and he said NOT
> to roll the crust to the left, right, and center or any of those variations.
> He said roll the pin a couple of times in one direction only, turn the crust,
> and repeat as many times as it takes you to get your correct shape and
> thickness.
>
Pshaw. I am dextrous enough to be able to change the angle without
having to turn the dough around. Alton's show is interesting, but he is
just too damned anal about too many things. It can't be much fun to cook
the way he does.

On 2021-04-05 1:20 p.m., Lucretia Borgia wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 12:56:47 -0400, Boron Elgar
> > wrote:


>>
>> I have tried them all, from lard to butter to Crisco- with vodka,
>> without vodka, by hand, by processor, by the Gods, I just cannot do
>> it.
>
> Okay, I thought it was the making people didn't like, didn't occur to
> me it was the rolling.

It is the rolling part my wife has trouble with.

On 05/04/2021 19:44, Graham wrote:
> On 2021-04-05 12:34 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 05/04/2021 17:18, Graham wrote:
>>> On 2021-04-05 10:16 a.m., Graham wrote:
>>
>>>> Since I use pastry flour rather than AP, which here is a decent
>>>> bread flour, I can leave out the fridge time.
>>>> I use butter and/or lard NEVER Crisco.
>>>
>>> I also weigh the ingredients:-)
>>> I do use eggs for some pastries, generally when I'm following a
>>> French recipe.
>>
>> I sometimes use an egg yolk as part of the liquid, then use the white
>> to brush the bottom crust before adding the filling. It seems to help
>> avoid mushiness.
>
> I like that idea. St. Delia suggests something similar. Do you then
> pre-bake the shell?
>
I do, if I'm making quiche. Just half-baked, though.

>> I most often use half lard, half butter, sometimes all butter, but
>> never Crisco.
>> And I weigh the ingredients.
>>
> So many British baking books that get re-published in N.America, state
> that AP is the equivalent of UK plain flour. It isn't!!

I've had 'discussions' with someone from California, who has never baked
in the UK, telling me that. She's wrong.
I have a rather nice recipe for yeast-raised coffee cake, which calls
for AP flour. When I make it here in Scotland, I've found that half
plain and half strong works. Just plain does not.

On 2021-04-05 1:31 p.m., US Janet wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:21:50 -0400, Dave Smith

>>
>> We have lots of apple orchards around here and I can usually get a wide
>> range of locally grown varieties. There used to be close to 20 acres of
>> apple orchard next door to us and the farmer had a variety of apple
>> types. They all got pruned and sprayed at the same time, but harvest
>> times were different, so he could deal with one variety at a time. FWIW,
>> one of the varieties he grew was Mitsui, which were from Japanese stock.
>
> When Lucretia said that, something tickled my brain. I faintly
> remember reading something like that but I don't remember that it was
> only apples, or apples for the US or varieties of vegetables at the
> beginning of the last century. Maybe it applies to all.
> However in the U.S., there is currently a group of men traveling the
> (West or all U.S.?) traveling the back roads looking for abandoned
> farms and the like, seeking out forgotten apples. They collect what
> they find and send them off to be tested for unique DNA. There is
> another grooup operating out of the East. Thousands of apples have
> been rediscovered.
> See Lost Apple Project and Apple Search. At one time there were
> 17,000 named varieties of apples in the U.S. Now we are down to
> 4,500.
> Sorry for getting on a hobby horse. This is just a pet project that I
> follow. I'm all for broadening our scope of edible foods and
> protecting them.

You should check out the book The Botany of Desire. The author tells
about the relationship between humans and plants. Apples are one of the
major topics in the book. He noted that it is only relatively recently
that apples became the type of fruit that we think of today. They had
previously been used as a sweetener in cooking, and were even more
commonly used to make cider... hard cider. In colder climates the used
fractional freezing to increase the alcohol content of cider turning it
into apple jack.


One of the heritage apples is the snow apple. They are few and far
between. We had an apple orchard beside us when we first moved here.
The front part was owned by a farmer from down the road and the back
part was owned by the Jockey Club. The farmer tended and harvested the
trees on the Jockey Club property. In the far corner was one snow apple
tree. He never bothered harvesting that one. I sure helped myself to
lots of them. They are always better harvested late.

On 2021-04-05 2:25 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
> On 05/04/2021 16:14, Lucretia Borgia wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 07:45:50 -0700 (PDT), "
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I need a pie crust so rarely so why make one when I've got a frozen one
>>> in the freezer awaiting me.Â* What 'finicky' foods do I write about
>>> other than
>>> Brussel sprouts and lamb?
>>
>> I make my own, effortless with a food processor and make double what I
>> need.Â* Put half away in freezer for next time.
>>
> As do I. The food processor method works really well.
>

You just have to be careful not to process it too long. Pastry is better
when there are little chunks of shortening in it rather than having it
completely pulverized. You need the chunks in there to expand and steam
to make the pastry flaky.

On 2021-04-05 2:34 p.m., Graham wrote:
> On 2021-04-05 12:25 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:

>> As do I. The food processor method works really well.
>>
>
>
> I used my FP yesterday to make bread. It takes only about a minute to
> knead the dough. I made 2 batches totalling about 2200g and combined
> them on the bench before proving.

I bought a nice stand mixer a couple months ago because we have been
making a lot of pizzas and I was led to believe that the dough hook
would save a lot of kneading. I can just let that thing run for a few
minutes in lieu of a lot of hand kneading. Results to date confirmed that.

On 05/04/2021 21:47, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2021-04-05 2:25 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 05/04/2021 16:14, Lucretia Borgia wrote:
>>> I make my own, effortless with a food processor and make double what I
>>> need.Â* Put half away in freezer for next time.
>>>
>> As do I. The food processor method works really well.
>>
> You just have to be careful not to process it too long. Pastry is better
> when there are little chunks of shortening in it rather than having it
> completely pulverized. You need the chunks in there to expand and steam
> to make the pastry flaky.

Yes. I add the fat in two batches. First the lard, then the butter. That
way, the lard has smaller particles, and the butter (which contains
water) has pea-sized lumps. It works well.

On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 21:39:04 +0100, S Viemeister
> wrote:

>On 05/04/2021 19:44, Graham wrote:
>> On 2021-04-05 12:34 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
>>> On 05/04/2021 17:18, Graham wrote:
>>>> On 2021-04-05 10:16 a.m., Graham wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Since I use pastry flour rather than AP, which here is a decent
>>>>> bread flour, I can leave out the fridge time.
>>>>> I use butter and/or lard NEVER Crisco.
>>>>
>>>> I also weigh the ingredients:-)
>>>> I do use eggs for some pastries, generally when I'm following a
>>>> French recipe.
>>>
>>> I sometimes use an egg yolk as part of the liquid, then use the white
>>> to brush the bottom crust before adding the filling. It seems to help
>>> avoid mushiness.
>>
>> I like that idea. St. Delia suggests something similar. Do you then
>> pre-bake the shell?
>>
>I do, if I'm making quiche. Just half-baked, though.
>
>>> I most often use half lard, half butter, sometimes all butter, but
>>> never Crisco.
>>> And I weigh the ingredients.
>>>
>> So many British baking books that get re-published in N.America, state
>> that AP is the equivalent of UK plain flour. It isn't!!
>
>I've had 'discussions' with someone from California, who has never baked
>in the UK, telling me that. She's wrong.
>I have a rather nice recipe for yeast-raised coffee cake, which calls
>for AP flour. When I make it here in Scotland, I've found that half
>plain and half strong works. Just plain does not.

That is correct. I think the bread group decided that some years agol
Janet US

On 2021 Apr 5, , wrote
(in >):

> Because I'm a lazy turd? That's pretty much my excuse.

I´ve always thought I could make a pie crust. I never have for the same
reason. Maybe someday.
My SIL makes good ones. If she can, I can.
I used to make decent sopapillas and pizza dough.

On Tue, 06 Apr 2021 05:46:52 +1000, J. Stewart
> wrote:

>On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 12:38:37 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:
>
>>On 2021-04-05 12:19 p.m., wrote:
>>> On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 10:54:57 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We will give you full marks for honesty ;-)
>>>>
>>> Thank you, thank you (takes a small bow in gratitude). You know it's always
>>> been said "honesty is the best policy" and it's true.
>>>
>>It is an especially good policy to follow in a group where there are a
>>few people who are quick to call you liars. As I have said in the past,
>>there are some people lie so often that they assume that everyone else
>>does too. I was accused of lying here a couple weeks ago when I posted
>>about Ohfeelme emailing me. She was upset and call me a liar, but
>>everyone with a mail reader was able to view the source of the post and
>>see that it had been sent to me and to the group.
>
>You were too dumb to realise that a) they were not intentionally sent
>emails, but automated copies of newsgroup posts and that b) she wasn't
>doing it on purpose.
>
>So I wouldn't be too proud of the drama that you made of this.

" I change my name sometimes, but I never pretend to be
someone else. That's just too low.

--
The real Dr. Bruce posts with uni-berlin.de - individual.net"

On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 16:43:35 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2021-04-05 1:31 p.m., US Janet wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:21:50 -0400, Dave Smith
>
>>>
>>> We have lots of apple orchards around here and I can usually get a wide
>>> range of locally grown varieties. There used to be close to 20 acres of
>>> apple orchard next door to us and the farmer had a variety of apple
>>> types. They all got pruned and sprayed at the same time, but harvest
>>> times were different, so he could deal with one variety at a time. FWIW,
>>> one of the varieties he grew was Mitsui, which were from Japanese stock.
>>
>> When Lucretia said that, something tickled my brain. I faintly
>> remember reading something like that but I don't remember that it was
>> only apples, or apples for the US or varieties of vegetables at the
>> beginning of the last century. Maybe it applies to all.
>> However in the U.S., there is currently a group of men traveling the
>> (West or all U.S.?) traveling the back roads looking for abandoned
>> farms and the like, seeking out forgotten apples. They collect what
>> they find and send them off to be tested for unique DNA. There is
>> another grooup operating out of the East. Thousands of apples have
>> been rediscovered.
>> See Lost Apple Project and Apple Search. At one time there were
>> 17,000 named varieties of apples in the U.S. Now we are down to
>> 4,500.
>> Sorry for getting on a hobby horse. This is just a pet project that I
>> follow. I'm all for broadening our scope of edible foods and
>> protecting them.
>
>You should check out the book The Botany of Desire. The author tells
>about the relationship between humans and plants. Apples are one of the
>major topics in the book. He noted that it is only relatively recently
>that apples became the type of fruit that we think of today. They had
>previously been used as a sweetener in cooking, and were even more
>commonly used to make cider... hard cider. In colder climates the used
>fractional freezing to increase the alcohol content of cider turning it
>into apple jack.
>
>
>One of the heritage apples is the snow apple. They are few and far
>between. We had an apple orchard beside us when we first moved here.
>The front part was owned by a farmer from down the road and the back
>part was owned by the Jockey Club. The farmer tended and harvested the
>trees on the Jockey Club property. In the far corner was one snow apple
>tree. He never bothered harvesting that one. I sure helped myself to
>lots of them. They are always better harvested late.

Yes, and to make vinegar, brandy,livestock feed and as a sweeetener .
That's interesting stuff. I'll look for the book
Janet US

On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 23:12:11 +0100, Pamela
> wrote:

>On 22:20 5 Apr 2021, Pamela said:
>>
>> I change my name sometimes, but I never pretend to be
>> someone else. That's just too low.
>>
>> --
>> The real Dr. Bruce posts with uni-berlin.de - individual.net"
>>
>
>Mr Neodome, please change your fake sig when you forge me.
>
>Your posts are getting messy. Tsk tsk.

When it gets out of hand, I switch to Xananews. You can tell it to
filter out any posts that have "aioe" or "neodome" anywhere in their
headers.

--
The real Dr. Bruce posts with uni-berlin.de - individual.net

On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 3:19:47 PM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> On 2021-04-05 1:13 p.m., wrote:
> >
> > I do remember one episode of A.B. rolling a pie crust and he said NOT
> > to roll the crust to the left, right, and center or any of those variations.
> > He said roll the pin a couple of times in one direction only, turn the crust,
> > and repeat as many times as it takes you to get your correct shape and
> > thickness.
> >
> Pshaw. I am dextrous enough to be able to change the angle without
> having to turn the dough around. Alton's show is interesting, but he is
> just too damned anal about too many things. It can't be much fun to cook
> the way he does.
>
Go to the 19:15 time mark view until the 19:37 time mark and you'll see what
I was trying to describe what he said not to do. It's a bad video, it looks like
someone recorded it right off the TV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbshuKu11so

On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 23:12:11 +0100, Pamela
> wrote:

>On 22:20 5 Apr 2021, Pamela said:
>>
>> I change my name sometimes, but I never pretend to be
>> someone else. That's just too low.
>>
>> --
>> The real Dr. Bruce posts with uni-berlin.de - individual.net"
>>
>
>Mr Neodome, please change your fake sig when you forge me.
>
>Your posts are getting messy. Tsk tsk.


OK.

John Kuthe, BCN, WTF...

On 2021-04-05 2:51 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
> On 05/04/2021 21:47, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2021-04-05 2:25 p.m., S Viemeister wrote:
>>> On 05/04/2021 16:14, Lucretia Borgia wrote:
>>>> I make my own, effortless with a food processor and make double what I
>>>> need.Â* Put half away in freezer for next time.
>>>>
>>> As do I. The food processor method works really well.
>>>
>> You just have to be careful not to process it too long. Pastry is
>> better when there are little chunks of shortening in it rather than
>> having it completely pulverized. You need the chunks in there to
>> expand and steam to make the pastry flaky.
>
> Yes. I add the fat in two batches. First the lard, then the butter. That
> way, the lard has smaller particles, and the butter (which contains
> water) has pea-sized lumps. It works well.

I'll have to try that. I have always added them together.

On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 16:43:35 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2021-04-05 1:31 p.m., US Janet wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:21:50 -0400, Dave Smith
>
>>>
>>> We have lots of apple orchards around here and I can usually get a wide
>>> range of locally grown varieties. There used to be close to 20 acres of
>>> apple orchard next door to us and the farmer had a variety of apple
>>> types. They all got pruned and sprayed at the same time, but harvest
>>> times were different, so he could deal with one variety at a time. FWIW,
>>> one of the varieties he grew was Mitsui, which were from Japanese stock.
>>
>> When Lucretia said that, something tickled my brain. I faintly
>> remember reading something like that but I don't remember that it was
>> only apples, or apples for the US or varieties of vegetables at the
>> beginning of the last century. Maybe it applies to all.
>> However in the U.S., there is currently a group of men traveling the
>> (West or all U.S.?) traveling the back roads looking for abandoned
>> farms and the like, seeking out forgotten apples. They collect what
>> they find and send them off to be tested for unique DNA. There is
>> another grooup operating out of the East. Thousands of apples have
>> been rediscovered.
>> See Lost Apple Project and Apple Search. At one time there were
>> 17,000 named varieties of apples in the U.S. Now we are down to
>> 4,500.
>> Sorry for getting on a hobby horse. This is just a pet project that I
>> follow. I'm all for broadening our scope of edible foods and
>> protecting them.
>
>You should check out the book The Botany of Desire. The author tells
>about the relationship between humans and plants. Apples are one of the
>major topics in the book. He noted that it is only relatively recently
>that apples became the type of fruit that we think of today. They had
>previously been used as a sweetener in cooking, and were even more
>commonly used to make cider... hard cider. In colder climates the used
>fractional freezing to increase the alcohol content of cider turning it
>into apple jack.
>
>
>One of the heritage apples is the snow apple. They are few and far
>between. We had an apple orchard beside us when we first moved here.
>The front part was owned by a farmer from down the road and the back
>part was owned by the Jockey Club. The farmer tended and harvested the
>trees on the Jockey Club property. In the far corner was one snow apple
>tree. He never bothered harvesting that one. I sure helped myself to
>lots of them. They are always better harvested late.

The reason cider is made is because the best cider is made from
windfalls and on the rotten side even better.