On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 08:28:04 -0700 (PDT), Bryan Simmons wrote:

> On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 10:21:21 AM UTC-5, bruce bowser wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-4, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure I'd know where to buy ungraded beef.
>>
>> i'm sure folks at a meat market could tell you.
>>
> They'd tell you to get out of their store, and call you a cheapskate.

Beef that's ungraded doesn't necessarily mean that it's shitty beef.

There's plenty of Choice and Prime beef out there that's ungraded.
"Certified Angus Beef", for example, is a brand that is technically
ungraded but *would* grade Choice or Prime if submitted to the USDA
for grading.

[Though it looks like they did finally create a separate trademark
to grade some of it officially as verified USDA Prime]

Most of the "American Wagyu" (usually only 10%-25% Wagyu,
genetically-speaking) beef brands in the USA are ungraded. As is
all of Snake River Farms beef - they use their own grading system to
indicate quality.

The industry term for ungraded beef is "No Roll" - meaning no fee
was paid to the USDA for USDA graders to judge the culinary
qualities of steer carcasses. And that no USDA stamp was "rolled"
onto the carcass. All beef is still *inspected* for wholesomeness
and safety by the USDA, but only optionally is it USDA graded for
quality.

Beef that would barely grade Select or inferior to that is often
ungraded "no roll" beef. Packing houses often don't want to pay to
grade Select beef (or worse, beef that won't even grade Select) but
still want to be able to sell their beef retail. Because if you
submit a steer for grading and it doesn't even make Select grade,
then you have to tell the retail public that little gem (if they
ask) that its Standard or Commercial/Cutter grade. Which doesn't
usually go over too well. So in this usage of ungraded beef, its
done just to remain ignorant of its actual inferior USDA grade.

Many stores will assign their sub-par no-roll beef a fancy-sounding
brand name - like "Chef's Preference", or "Signature Frolicking
Happy Cow Beef" so it *sounds better* than it really is. But they
may not use the words "grade", "select", "choice", or "prime" (or
"certified") in their brand names unless it's actually USDA graded
as such. Any brand using any of those words is genuine - such as
H-E-B's "Prime 1" brand is graded USDA Prime.

The lack of official USDA grading does not mean there isn't anybody
there at the packing houses judging carcass qualities using the same
or very similar standards as the USDA would. There are certainly
people there doing that. It only means they're not paying for
official USDA graders and grade stamps.

Here's a list of USDA "Certified" beef programs (brands) most of
which ARE NOT taking advantage of the their ungraded no-roll beef
output and selling mostly quality beef that grades Select or usually
better. On Page 4 (as of this writing) you'll see "Valley Pride
Black Angus Beef" is one of the exceptions here. They admit
specifically it won't even grade USDA Select. Why do they pay to be
"certified" and on this list? Possibly so they get some brand
recognition amongst their wholesale commercial buyers who will
process that beef into canned soups and stews while still
guaranteeing to their other commercial and retail customers that
they have other beef brands (adjacent on that same list) that are
guaranteed to be of higher quality. While technically they don't
have *any* USDA-paid graders in their packing facilities. And
possibly and quite probably for other reasons I'm not aware of.

https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/defau...Comparison.pdf

The USDA semi-regularly audits the processors on this list to make
sure they're adhering to the characteristics claimed on the charts.

Any other beef "brand" and without a grade specified on the packages
that you DON'T see on this list is probably selling beef that would
grade USDA Select, and often lower, if submitted to the official
USDA grading process.

And that concludes our ungraded/no-roll beef lesson for the day.

-sw

On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 5:51:38 PM UTC-5, Sqwertz wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 08:28:04 -0700 (PDT), Bryan Simmons wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 10:21:21 AM UTC-5, bruce bowser wrote:
> >> On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-4, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm not sure I'd know where to buy ungraded beef.
> >>
> >> i'm sure folks at a meat market could tell you.
> >>
> > They'd tell you to get out of their store, and call you a cheapskate.
>
> Beef that's ungraded doesn't necessarily mean that it's shitty beef.
>
> There's plenty of Choice and Prime beef out there that's ungraded.
> "Certified Angus Beef", for example, is a brand that is technically
> ungraded but *would* grade Choice or Prime if submitted to the USDA
> for grading.
>
> [Though it looks like they did finally create a separate trademark
> to grade some of it officially as verified USDA Prime]
>
> Most of the "American Wagyu" (usually only 10%-25% Wagyu,
> genetically-speaking) beef brands in the USA are ungraded. As is
> all of Snake River Farms beef - they use their own grading system to
> indicate quality.
>
> The industry term for ungraded beef is "No Roll" - meaning no fee
> was paid to the USDA for USDA graders to judge the culinary
> qualities of steer carcasses. And that no USDA stamp was "rolled"
> onto the carcass. All beef is still *inspected* for wholesomeness
> and safety by the USDA, but only optionally is it USDA graded for
> quality.
>
> Beef that would barely grade Select or inferior to that is often
> ungraded "no roll" beef. Packing houses often don't want to pay to
> grade Select beef (or worse, beef that won't even grade Select) but
> still want to be able to sell their beef retail. Because if you
> submit a steer for grading and it doesn't even make Select grade,
> then you have to tell the retail public that little gem (if they
> ask) that its Standard or Commercial/Cutter grade. Which doesn't
> usually go over too well. So in this usage of ungraded beef, its
> done just to remain ignorant of its actual inferior USDA grade.
>
> Many stores will assign their sub-par no-roll beef a fancy-sounding
> brand name - like "Chef's Preference", or "Signature Frolicking
> Happy Cow Beef" so it *sounds better* than it really is. But they
> may not use the words "grade", "select", "choice", or "prime" (or
> "certified") in their brand names unless it's actually USDA graded
> as such. Any brand using any of those words is genuine - such as
> H-E-B's "Prime 1" brand is graded USDA Prime.
>
> The lack of official USDA grading does not mean there isn't anybody
> there at the packing houses judging carcass qualities using the same
> or very similar standards as the USDA would. There are certainly
> people there doing that. It only means they're not paying for
> official USDA graders and grade stamps.
>
> Here's a list of USDA "Certified" beef programs (brands) most of
> which ARE NOT taking advantage of the their ungraded no-roll beef
> output and selling mostly quality beef that grades Select or usually
> better. On Page 4 (as of this writing) you'll see "Valley Pride
> Black Angus Beef" is one of the exceptions here. They admit
> specifically it won't even grade USDA Select. Why do they pay to be
> "certified" and on this list? Possibly so they get some brand
> recognition amongst their wholesale commercial buyers who will
> process that beef into canned soups and stews while still
> guaranteeing to their other commercial and retail customers that
> they have other beef brands (adjacent on that same list) that are
> guaranteed to be of higher quality. While technically they don't
> have *any* USDA-paid graders in their packing facilities. And
> possibly and quite probably for other reasons I'm not aware of.
>
> https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/defau...Comparison.pdf
>
> The USDA semi-regularly audits the processors on this list to make
> sure they're adhering to the characteristics claimed on the charts.
>
> Any other beef "brand" and without a grade specified on the packages
> that you DON'T see on this list is probably selling beef that would
> grade USDA Select, and often lower, if submitted to the official
> USDA grading process.
>
> And that concludes our ungraded/no-roll beef lesson for the day.
>
Thank you, Steve. All accurate. The ungraded steaks that I buy seem
similar to USDA Select, but it's not just the marbling that influences
tenderness. A tenderloin cut from a Select porterhouse will be more
tender than a Prime top round or a Choice sirloin.

I consider highly marbled beef an unusual variation, rather than
something that I wish that I could eat most often. If I were rich as
Croesus I wouldn't want to eat Waygu type beef often, and probably
mostly as kebob over a hickory wood campfire.
>
> -sw
>
--Bryan

On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 16:25:39 -0700 (PDT), Bryan Simmons
> wrote:

>On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 5:51:38 PM UTC-5, Sqwertz wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 08:28:04 -0700 (PDT), Bryan Simmons wrote:
>>
>> > On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 10:21:21 AM UTC-5, bruce bowser wrote:
>> >> On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-4, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I'm not sure I'd know where to buy ungraded beef.
>> >>
>> >> i'm sure folks at a meat market could tell you.
>> >>
>> > They'd tell you to get out of their store, and call you a cheapskate.
>>
>> Beef that's ungraded doesn't necessarily mean that it's shitty beef.
>>
>> There's plenty of Choice and Prime beef out there that's ungraded.
>> "Certified Angus Beef", for example, is a brand that is technically
>> ungraded but *would* grade Choice or Prime if submitted to the USDA
>> for grading.
>>
>> [Though it looks like they did finally create a separate trademark
>> to grade some of it officially as verified USDA Prime]
>>
>> Most of the "American Wagyu" (usually only 10%-25% Wagyu,
>> genetically-speaking) beef brands in the USA are ungraded. As is
>> all of Snake River Farms beef - they use their own grading system to
>> indicate quality.
>>
>> The industry term for ungraded beef is "No Roll" - meaning no fee
>> was paid to the USDA for USDA graders to judge the culinary
>> qualities of steer carcasses. And that no USDA stamp was "rolled"
>> onto the carcass. All beef is still *inspected* for wholesomeness
>> and safety by the USDA, but only optionally is it USDA graded for
>> quality.
>>
>> Beef that would barely grade Select or inferior to that is often
>> ungraded "no roll" beef. Packing houses often don't want to pay to
>> grade Select beef (or worse, beef that won't even grade Select) but
>> still want to be able to sell their beef retail. Because if you
>> submit a steer for grading and it doesn't even make Select grade,
>> then you have to tell the retail public that little gem (if they
>> ask) that its Standard or Commercial/Cutter grade. Which doesn't
>> usually go over too well. So in this usage of ungraded beef, its
>> done just to remain ignorant of its actual inferior USDA grade.
>>
>> Many stores will assign their sub-par no-roll beef a fancy-sounding
>> brand name - like "Chef's Preference", or "Signature Frolicking
>> Happy Cow Beef" so it *sounds better* than it really is. But they
>> may not use the words "grade", "select", "choice", or "prime" (or
>> "certified") in their brand names unless it's actually USDA graded
>> as such. Any brand using any of those words is genuine - such as
>> H-E-B's "Prime 1" brand is graded USDA Prime.
>>
>> The lack of official USDA grading does not mean there isn't anybody
>> there at the packing houses judging carcass qualities using the same
>> or very similar standards as the USDA would. There are certainly
>> people there doing that. It only means they're not paying for
>> official USDA graders and grade stamps.
>>
>> Here's a list of USDA "Certified" beef programs (brands) most of
>> which ARE NOT taking advantage of the their ungraded no-roll beef
>> output and selling mostly quality beef that grades Select or usually
>> better. On Page 4 (as of this writing) you'll see "Valley Pride
>> Black Angus Beef" is one of the exceptions here. They admit
>> specifically it won't even grade USDA Select. Why do they pay to be
>> "certified" and on this list? Possibly so they get some brand
>> recognition amongst their wholesale commercial buyers who will
>> process that beef into canned soups and stews while still
>> guaranteeing to their other commercial and retail customers that
>> they have other beef brands (adjacent on that same list) that are
>> guaranteed to be of higher quality. While technically they don't
>> have *any* USDA-paid graders in their packing facilities. And
>> possibly and quite probably for other reasons I'm not aware of.
>>
>> https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/defau...Comparison.pdf
>>
>> The USDA semi-regularly audits the processors on this list to make
>> sure they're adhering to the characteristics claimed on the charts.
>>
>> Any other beef "brand" and without a grade specified on the packages
>> that you DON'T see on this list is probably selling beef that would
>> grade USDA Select, and often lower, if submitted to the official
>> USDA grading process.
>>
>> And that concludes our ungraded/no-roll beef lesson for the day.
>>
>Thank you, Steve. All accurate. The ungraded steaks that I buy seem
>similar to USDA Select, but it's not just the marbling that influences
>tenderness. A tenderloin cut from a Select porterhouse will be more
>tender than a Prime top round or a Choice sirloin.
>
>I consider highly marbled beef an unusual variation, rather than
>something that I wish that I could eat most often. If I were rich as
>Croesus I wouldn't want to eat Waygu type beef often, and probably
>mostly as kebob over a hickory wood campfire.
>>
>> -sw
>>
>--Bryan
Ask them, theyre here. "You can stop saying that now. Thank you."
--
Not Dave Smith.

On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 17:51:33 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 08:28:04 -0700 (PDT), Bryan Simmons wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 10:21:21 AM UTC-5, bruce bowser wrote:
>>> On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-4, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure I'd know where to buy ungraded beef.
>>>
>>> i'm sure folks at a meat market could tell you.
>>>
>> They'd tell you to get out of their store, and call you a cheapskate.
>
>Beef that's ungraded doesn't necessarily mean that it's shitty beef.
>
>There's plenty of Choice and Prime beef out there that's ungraded.
>"Certified Angus Beef", for example, is a brand that is technically
>ungraded but *would* grade Choice or Prime if submitted to the USDA
>for grading.
>
>[Though it looks like they did finally create a separate trademark
>to grade some of it officially as verified USDA Prime]
>
>Most of the "American Wagyu" (usually only 10%-25% Wagyu,
>genetically-speaking) beef brands in the USA are ungraded. As is
>all of Snake River Farms beef - they use their own grading system to
>indicate quality.
>
>The industry term for ungraded beef is "No Roll" - meaning no fee
>was paid to the USDA for USDA graders to judge the culinary
>qualities of steer carcasses. And that no USDA stamp was "rolled"
>onto the carcass. All beef is still *inspected* for wholesomeness
>and safety by the USDA, but only optionally is it USDA graded for
>quality.
>
>Beef that would barely grade Select or inferior to that is often
>ungraded "no roll" beef. Packing houses often don't want to pay to
>grade Select beef (or worse, beef that won't even grade Select) but
>still want to be able to sell their beef retail. Because if you
>submit a steer for grading and it doesn't even make Select grade,
>then you have to tell the retail public that little gem (if they
>ask) that its Standard or Commercial/Cutter grade. Which doesn't
>usually go over too well. So in this usage of ungraded beef, its
>done just to remain ignorant of its actual inferior USDA grade.
>
>Many stores will assign their sub-par no-roll beef a fancy-sounding
>brand name - like "Chef's Preference", or "Signature Frolicking
>Happy Cow Beef" so it *sounds better* than it really is. But they
>may not use the words "grade", "select", "choice", or "prime" (or
>"certified") in their brand names unless it's actually USDA graded
>as such. Any brand using any of those words is genuine - such as
>H-E-B's "Prime 1" brand is graded USDA Prime.
>
>The lack of official USDA grading does not mean there isn't anybody
>there at the packing houses judging carcass qualities using the same
>or very similar standards as the USDA would. There are certainly
>people there doing that. It only means they're not paying for
>official USDA graders and grade stamps.
>
>Here's a list of USDA "Certified" beef programs (brands) most of
>which ARE NOT taking advantage of the their ungraded no-roll beef
>output and selling mostly quality beef that grades Select or usually
>better. On Page 4 (as of this writing) you'll see "Valley Pride
>Black Angus Beef" is one of the exceptions here. They admit
>specifically it won't even grade USDA Select. Why do they pay to be
>"certified" and on this list? Possibly so they get some brand
>recognition amongst their wholesale commercial buyers who will
>process that beef into canned soups and stews while still
>guaranteeing to their other commercial and retail customers that
>they have other beef brands (adjacent on that same list) that are
>guaranteed to be of higher quality. While technically they don't
>have *any* USDA-paid graders in their packing facilities. And
>possibly and quite probably for other reasons I'm not aware of.
>
>https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/defau...Comparison.pdf
>
>The USDA semi-regularly audits the processors on this list to make
>sure they're adhering to the characteristics claimed on the charts.
>
>Any other beef "brand" and without a grade specified on the packages
>that you DON'T see on this list is probably selling beef that would
>grade USDA Select, and often lower, if submitted to the official
>USDA grading process.
>
>And that concludes our ungraded/no-roll beef lesson for the day.
>
>-sw
Ask them, theyre here. "You can stop saying that now. Thank you."
--
Not Dave Smith.

On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 16:25:39 -0700 (PDT), Bryan Simmons wrote:

> Thank you, Steve. All accurate. The ungraded steaks that I buy seem
> similar to USDA Select, but it's not just the marbling that influences
> tenderness. A tenderloin cut from a Select porterhouse will be more
> tender than a Prime top round or a Choice sirloin.
>
> I consider highly marbled beef an unusual variation, rather than
> something that I wish that I could eat most often. If I were rich as
> Croesus I wouldn't want to eat Waygu type beef often, and probably
> mostly as kebob over a hickory wood campfire.

And there are some cuts where marbling doesn't have anything to do
with tenderness. Such as short ribs or bottom sirloin flap. And
many common cuts in milk cows can be super marbled, but tough as
leather. Age had a lot to do with tenderness, and milk cows are
usually about 5 years old as slaughter.

-sw

On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 19:54:51 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 16:25:39 -0700 (PDT), Bryan Simmons wrote:
>
>> Thank you, Steve. All accurate. The ungraded steaks that I buy seem
>> similar to USDA Select, but it's not just the marbling that influences
>> tenderness. A tenderloin cut from a Select porterhouse will be more
>> tender than a Prime top round or a Choice sirloin.
>>
>> I consider highly marbled beef an unusual variation, rather than
>> something that I wish that I could eat most often. If I were rich as
>> Croesus I wouldn't want to eat Waygu type beef often, and probably
>> mostly as kebob over a hickory wood campfire.
>
>And there are some cuts where marbling doesn't have anything to do
>with tenderness. Such as short ribs or bottom sirloin flap. And
>many common cuts in milk cows can be super marbled, but tough as
>leather. Age had a lot to do with tenderness, and milk cows are
>usually about 5 years old as slaughter.
>
>-sw
Ask them, theyre here. "You can stop saying that now. Thank you."
--
Not Dave Smith.

On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 7:54:56 PM UTC-5, Sqwertz wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 16:25:39 -0700 (PDT), Bryan Simmons wrote:
>
> > Thank you, Steve. All accurate. The ungraded steaks that I buy seem
> > similar to USDA Select, but it's not just the marbling that influences
> > tenderness. A tenderloin cut from a Select porterhouse will be more
> > tender than a Prime top round or a Choice sirloin.
> >
> > I consider highly marbled beef an unusual variation, rather than
> > something that I wish that I could eat most often. If I were rich as
> > Croesus I wouldn't want to eat Waygu type beef often, and probably
> > mostly as kebob over a hickory wood campfire.
> And there are some cuts where marbling doesn't have anything to do
> with tenderness. Such as short ribs or bottom sirloin flap. And
> many common cuts in milk cows can be super marbled, but tough as
> leather. Age had a lot to do with tenderness, and milk cows are
> usually about 5 years old as slaughter.
>
They never sell old milk cows as steaks or roasts, right? They get
ground up into hamburger, don't they?
>
> -sw
>
--Bryan

On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 15:34:55 -0700 (PDT), Bryan Simmons
> wrote:

>On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 7:54:56 PM UTC-5, Sqwertz wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Jun 2021 16:25:39 -0700 (PDT), Bryan Simmons wrote:
>>
>> > Thank you, Steve. All accurate. The ungraded steaks that I buy seem
>> > similar to USDA Select, but it's not just the marbling that influences
>> > tenderness. A tenderloin cut from a Select porterhouse will be more
>> > tender than a Prime top round or a Choice sirloin.
>> >
>> > I consider highly marbled beef an unusual variation, rather than
>> > something that I wish that I could eat most often. If I were rich as
>> > Croesus I wouldn't want to eat Waygu type beef often, and probably
>> > mostly as kebob over a hickory wood campfire.
>> And there are some cuts where marbling doesn't have anything to do
>> with tenderness. Such as short ribs or bottom sirloin flap. And
>> many common cuts in milk cows can be super marbled, but tough as
>> leather. Age had a lot to do with tenderness, and milk cows are
>> usually about 5 years old as slaughter.
>>
>They never sell old milk cows as steaks or roasts, right? They get
>ground up into hamburger, don't they?
>>
>> -sw
>>
>--Bryan
Ask them, theyre here. "You can stop saying that now. Thank you."
--
Not Dave Smith