Bubba wrote:
> I've been lurking around a while, posted a few things, and finally
> decided to jump into the fray with both feet (and mouth wide open for
> the planting thereof) and see if I could start a "food fight".
>
> Lots of turkeys are being gobbled this time of the year and a
> LOT....did I say that loud enough....LOT!!! of noise is being made
> about:
>
> FOOD SAFETY!!!!!!
>
> I question the emphasis put on this issue.
>
> I was born in California, raised all over (Navy brat) but my roots are
> in the South. Many of my "food" memories recall the major meal being
> at noontime (dinner), after which a clean tablecloth (or sheet) was
> thrown over the leftovers and they were left until suppertime.
>
(snippage)
> Bubba
>

I have no idea the answers to your questions. I chalk a lot of it up to
paranoia about frivilous lawsuits. 100, 50, even 25 years ago in lots of
places no one questioned letting food sit out unrefrigerated for a few
hours. (I am not talking about restaurants where there are food & safety
inspectors, although if you think about it there probably weren't any of
those 100 years ago, either.)

My grandparents didn't have a refrigerator until well after the the
innovation surpassed the old ice-box and they could finally afford one, I'm
guessing early 1940's. If you look at the old ice boxes, they sure didn't
have the room to fill with food like the refrigerators of today. My mom
says in the summer her mom used the ice box to store milk and oleo. But in
the winter milk was kept in the bottles on the porch which was sufficiently
cold. Breads were kept in bread boxes (but of course bread was freshly
baked weekly so it didn't really have time to go bad). Eggs were stored in
baskets; potatoes, onions, carrots and other root vegetables in the cooler
cellar. Cheese, you cut the mold off. Leftover bacon grease you stored in
a jar on the counter for frying potatoes, etc.

My parents were raised in the Northern US but I've spent most of my time as
an adult in the Southern US. Doesn't bother me a bit to leave fried chicken
sitting out (covered) or fried fish out for several hours. I use a butter
bell for butter, which requires no refrigeration, simply a change of cool
water every week. The only thing I suppose I'd worry about is mayonnaise
due to the infusion of oil with eggs which may go rancid if left sitting out
in 90F heat.

But, I'm not a purist, either. I sure as hell use my freezer and fridge for
leftovers. I don't feed an army so there's no point in covering the table
with a sheet and waiting for "da men to come in from da fields". Times,
they are a'changin'

Jill

Bubba wrote:
> I've been lurking around a while, posted a few things, and finally
> decided to jump into the fray with both feet (and mouth wide open for
> the planting thereof) and see if I could start a "food fight".
>
> Lots of turkeys are being gobbled this time of the year and a
> LOT....did I say that loud enough....LOT!!! of noise is being made
> about:
>
> FOOD SAFETY!!!!!!
>
> I question the emphasis put on this issue.
>
> I was born in California, raised all over (Navy brat) but my roots are
> in the South. Many of my "food" memories recall the major meal being
> at noontime (dinner), after which a clean tablecloth (or sheet) was
> thrown over the leftovers and they were left until suppertime.
>
(snippage)
> Bubba
>

I have no idea the answers to your questions. I chalk a lot of it up to
paranoia about frivilous lawsuits. 100, 50, even 25 years ago in lots of
places no one questioned letting food sit out unrefrigerated for a few
hours. (I am not talking about restaurants where there are food & safety
inspectors, although if you think about it there probably weren't any of
those 100 years ago, either.)

My grandparents didn't have a refrigerator until well after the the
innovation surpassed the old ice-box and they could finally afford one, I'm
guessing early 1940's. If you look at the old ice boxes, they sure didn't
have the room to fill with food like the refrigerators of today. My mom
says in the summer her mom used the ice box to store milk and oleo. But in
the winter milk was kept in the bottles on the porch which was sufficiently
cold. Breads were kept in bread boxes (but of course bread was freshly
baked weekly so it didn't really have time to go bad). Eggs were stored in
baskets; potatoes, onions, carrots and other root vegetables in the cooler
cellar. Cheese, you cut the mold off. Leftover bacon grease you stored in
a jar on the counter for frying potatoes, etc.

My parents were raised in the Northern US but I've spent most of my time as
an adult in the Southern US. Doesn't bother me a bit to leave fried chicken
sitting out (covered) or fried fish out for several hours. I use a butter
bell for butter, which requires no refrigeration, simply a change of cool
water every week. The only thing I suppose I'd worry about is mayonnaise
due to the infusion of oil with eggs which may go rancid if left sitting out
in 90F heat.

But, I'm not a purist, either. I sure as hell use my freezer and fridge for
leftovers. I don't feed an army so there's no point in covering the table
with a sheet and waiting for "da men to come in from da fields". Times,
they are a'changin'

Jill

Far as I can tell, someone wrote:
>Or is it media hype?

I own a restaurant, and I have had to take a "Safe-Serve" course. There
has to be a certified food handler on premise whenever we're open.

I think that a lot of the stuff makes sense, as there are restaurants
where food safety would not otherwise exist without inspectors looking
over your shoulder. But it's excessive.

For example, soups must be cooled from serving temp to less than 42
degrees in two hours or less. They want you to use ice paddles and/or
pour it into trays, which are placed in larger trays filled with ice
water.

There are loads of procedural charts to learn. They have an entire page
on how to wash your hands. Clean hands are important, to be sure, but
they expect everyone to clean under your fingernails and then up to your
elbows, scrubbing for 20 seconds, every time you wash your hands.

I'd love to think that everyone who handles my food has very clean hands
and/or gloves on. It' s kind of silly to think that anyone really
follows the rules though. No one on the road obeys the speed limits,
and no one in a restaurant wahses their hands correctly either.

Here's a link to one of the courses.

http://www.nraef.org/pdf_files/SSFCSB3e%20Ch%2004.pdf

PENMART01 wrote:
>>"jmcquown" writes:
>>
>>Marge wrote:
>>
>>>I've gotten food poisoning from eating at NYC restaurants several
>>>times. No, they weren't dives either.
>>>
>>>Unpasturized products are dangerous to babies and older people, who
>>>are more susceptible. Remember the Odwalla juice problem a few years
>>>ago? We do pasturize for a reason.
>>>
>>
>>Sorry, I have no idea what 'Odwalla' juice is. I understand pasturization.
>>I understand restaurants should be held accountable for food safety and
>>handling. They are catering to and serving many.
>>
>>But home cooking is just... home cooking. Maybe you pick what you grow and
>>cook what you grow and then eat. Sometimes the food, yes, even chicken or
>>pork or fish, gets left on the table or the counter for a while. Maybe you
>>are careless, thoughtless, or simply don't have the means to store it. Or
>>maybe you realize you aren't gonna die if you reheat whatever that was and
>>eat it later.
>>
>>My dad used to wring chickens' necks in the back yard and sit on the porch
>>and pluck off the feathers before his mom put the bird in a pot with water
>>for soup or in a roasting pan. He picked and washed dandylion greens to
>>eat. Potatoes straight out of the ground, washed but probably still a bit
>>grubby. Pole beans rinsed in a bucket and snapped on the porch. Hmmm.
>>Growing up during the American Depression, and listening to those who did,
>
> sure does teach one something
>
> Yeah, hopefully the meaning of the word "exaggeration"... did he walk to school
> five miles both ways barefooted... and uphill both directions. LOL
>
>
> ---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
> ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
> *********
> "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
> Sheldon
> ````````````
According to my Dad, born in 1911, it was ten miles both ways, uphill
and in the wind driven snow, barefoot and with no coat. He also carried
a cold collard green sammich in a lard bucket for lunch. I tried that
with my kids and the old boy ratted me out to his grandkids. <VBG>

George

"jmcquown" > wrote in
:

> Sorry, I have no idea what 'Odwalla' juice is. I understand
> pasturization. I understand restaurants should be held accountable
for
> food safety and handling. They are catering to and serving many.
>


When you go into a restaurant, you can ask to see the kitchen. Of
course the owner/establishment can refuse the request. IIRC, there's
some half-a$$ed law in the books about this.

Andy

>there's some half-assed law in the books about this.
>
>Andy <STRONG>LIAR</STRONG>





---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

>that's why I never went to school!
>
>Andy <STRONG>LIAR</STRONG>



---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 11:48:44 -0600, George Shirley
> wrote:
>According to my Dad, born in 1911, it was ten miles both ways, uphill
>and in the wind driven snow, barefoot and with no coat. He also carried
>a cold collard green sammich in a lard bucket for lunch. I tried that
>with my kids and the old boy ratted me out to his grandkids. <VBG>
>
>George

feet? you had *feet*?

your amp pal,
blake

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 19:24:45 -0600, Andy > wrote:

>George Shirley > wrote in news:VwIrd.17088
:
>
>> According to my Dad, born in 1911, it was ten miles both ways, uphill
>> and in the wind driven snow, barefoot and with no coat.
>
>LOL. Like George Burns said, "that's why we never went to school!"
>
>Andy

or redd foxx: 'only one thing kept me out of college. high school.'

your pal,
blake

A lot of parents bought the Odwalla juices because they thought the
unpasturized juice would be more natural and therefore more healthy for
their kids. So, I think it's true that people tend to be very unaware
of what constitutes food safety.

Organic products are great. They do need to be washed and aren't
magically safe because they're organic.

When you think about it logically, how weird is it that it would be a
national craze for us to stop eating carbohydrates, but stock up on
pork rinds?

Marge wrote:

> Organic products are great. They do need to be washed and aren't
> magically safe because they're organic.

One of the things about organic produce is the avoidance of chemical
fertilizers. They prefer to use organic stuff, compost and manure. While
properly composted manure is good stuff, many of them do not compost it
properly. That can result in all sorts of nasty things getting into your
food, like e coli.

Back in the 70s when health foods were starting to become more popular and
my wacko sister in law was a health food fanatic she was pushing herbal
teas. She pointed out all the nasty problems with caffeine and tannin in
the regular teas. I suggested to her that at least we knew what we were
getting in tea, but the guys pushing the herbal teas were just gathering up
their herbs and making up their tea concoctions without much research into
the compounds they might produced. A few months after that there was an
news report of a woman who had been drinking vast quantities of on of the
varieties of herbal tea from a well known company. She overdosed on
atropine.

> When you think about it logically, how weird is it that it would be a
> national craze for us to stop eating carbohydrates, but stock up on
> pork rinds?

The low carb diet seems to work well for some people. My wife has been on
low carbs for years and does very well by it. I wonder about the amount of
fat in her diet but she is in fine shape, keeps her weight down and has no
cholesterol problem.