About a year or so ago, I was doing a search for Thai recipes when I
came across a website for an importer of Thai foodstuff - ingredients,
cookware, etc. I looked through their extensive recipe collection and
thought that it looked rather good, but something about the recipes rang
familiar. I searched other links and came across the Philpotts' recipes
(Ian and Muoi) that I had seen in various newsgroups and mailing lists
in years past and was happy to have found them again. When reading
through a few of them, I realized that the recipes found on the
retailer's website that they had claimed to be their own recipes, were
in fact those written by Ian K. Philpott - some of the recipes had the
occasional measurement change, but the description, ingredients, and
methods were the same, word for word (except in situations where Ian
wrote "my wife", the retailer swapped "we" or "our").

I wrote to the retailer and asked them what was up - the response I got
was that the recipes were indeed found online, but that they took a lot
of time in testing out each recipe, blah blah blah. But that didn't
explain why the Philpotts' recipes were claimed as the retailer's own,
word for word with no credit given to the Philpotts whatsoever. I also
contacted the owner of another website who did have the Philpotts recipe
collection, but he gave credit where credit was due and he was aware of
the situation with the retailer, but he felt that piracy was so rampant
that his hands were tied and he felt that there was nothing to be done.

So, a recent discussion on another group recipe copyrights made me
think about this retailer again. Maybe if enough people raised a stink
about it, they'd either give proper credit to the Philpotts or they'd
take the recipes down instead of trying to profit off of them. What
would you do? Yeah, maybe I shouldn't care so much because it's not
hurting me personally, but I knew Ian through the few mailing lists that
we were both members of before he passed away and so in a very small
way, I feel like his "legacy" needs to be protected, y'know?

N.

Well I guess you could organise some form of boycott of the firm if
you're sure of your claim; but, AFAIK, it's up to the owner of a
copyright to defend it.

In the present circs, I imagine that would be the widow; so you might
try contacting her in case she doesn't already know about this mob.
If she's been dealing with wills etc. recently, she's probably got a
lawyer on tap that she could at least ask about it. ISTM she may not
be all that concerned and would be quite happy to just have an
acknowledgement on the site. If there's still a royalty income stream
from the book a bit of referenced plagiarism may be a Good Thing. :-)

In article <zSYtd.1487$sU4.205@trndny01>,
wrote:
>About a year or so ago, I was doing a search for Thai recipes when I
>came across a website for an importer of Thai foodstuff - ingredients,
>cookware, etc. I looked through their extensive recipe collection and
>thought that it looked rather good, but something about the recipes rang
>familiar. I searched other links and came across the Philpotts' recipes
>(Ian and Muoi) that I had seen in various newsgroups and mailing lists
>in years past and was happy to have found them again. When reading
>through a few of them, I realized that the recipes found on the
>retailer's website that they had claimed to be their own recipes, were
>in fact those written by Ian K. Philpott - some of the recipes had the
>occasional measurement change, but the description, ingredients, and
>methods were the same, word for word (except in situations where Ian
>wrote "my wife", the retailer swapped "we" or "our").
>
>I wrote to the retailer and asked them what was up - the response I got
>was that the recipes were indeed found online, but that they took a lot
>of time in testing out each recipe, blah blah blah. But that didn't
>explain why the Philpotts' recipes were claimed as the retailer's own,
>word for word with no credit given to the Philpotts whatsoever. I also
>contacted the owner of another website who did have the Philpotts recipe
>collection, but he gave credit where credit was due and he was aware of
>the situation with the retailer, but he felt that piracy was so rampant
>that his hands were tied and he felt that there was nothing to be done.
>
>So, a recent discussion on another group recipe copyrights made me
>think about this retailer again. Maybe if enough people raised a stink
>about it, they'd either give proper credit to the Philpotts or they'd
>take the recipes down instead of trying to profit off of them. What
>would you do? Yeah, maybe I shouldn't care so much because it's not
>hurting me personally, but I knew Ian through the few mailing lists that
>we were both members of before he passed away and so in a very small
>way, I feel like his "legacy" needs to be protected, y'know?
>
>N.

Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

spamalicious wrote:
> About a year or so ago, I was doing a search for Thai recipes when I
> came across a website for an importer of Thai foodstuff - ingredients,
> cookware, etc. I looked through their extensive recipe collection and
> thought that it looked rather good, but something about the recipes rang
> familiar. I searched other links and came across the Philpotts' recipes
> (Ian and Muoi) that I had seen in various newsgroups and mailing lists
> in years past and was happy to have found them again. When reading
> through a few of them, I realized that the recipes found on the
> retailer's website that they had claimed to be their own recipes, were
> in fact those written by Ian K. Philpott - some of the recipes had the
> occasional measurement change, but the description, ingredients, and
> methods were the same, word for word (except in situations where Ian
> wrote "my wife", the retailer swapped "we" or "our").
>
> I wrote to the retailer and asked them what was up - the response I got
> was that the recipes were indeed found online, but that they took a lot
> of time in testing out each recipe, blah blah blah. But that didn't
> explain why the Philpotts' recipes were claimed as the retailer's own,
> word for word with no credit given to the Philpotts whatsoever. I also
> contacted the owner of another website who did have the Philpotts recipe
> collection, but he gave credit where credit was due and he was aware of
> the situation with the retailer, but he felt that piracy was so rampant
> that his hands were tied and he felt that there was nothing to be done.
>
> So, a recent discussion on another group recipe copyrights made me
> think about this retailer again. Maybe if enough people raised a stink
> about it, they'd either give proper credit to the Philpotts or they'd
> take the recipes down instead of trying to profit off of them. What
> would you do? Yeah, maybe I shouldn't care so much because it's not
> hurting me personally, but I knew Ian through the few mailing lists that
> we were both members of before he passed away and so in a very small
> way, I feel like his "legacy" needs to be protected, y'know?
>
> N.


Generally, the list of ingredients is not copyrightable, but the
assembly and cooking directions might be. The more detailed and wordy
the directions, the more likely it is covered by copyright.
Then, even if the individual recipes cannot be copyrighted, I think the
collection can be.

Enforcement of a copyright on a recipe is gonna be difficult. For one
thing, how would damages be assessed?
It might be best to just start a smear campaign against the thief who
republished them without giving credit to the author, and try to
pressure them into giving the credit that is due.

I know it really ****es me off to find my original recipes republished
without my permission and without any attribution, but there's not much
I can do about it.

Best regards,
Bob

spamalicious wrote:
> About a year or so ago, I was doing a search for Thai recipes when I
> came across a website for an importer of Thai foodstuff - ingredients,
> cookware, etc. I looked through their extensive recipe collection and
> thought that it looked rather good, but something about the recipes rang
> familiar. I searched other links and came across the Philpotts' recipes
> (Ian and Muoi) that I had seen in various newsgroups and mailing lists
> in years past and was happy to have found them again. When reading
> through a few of them, I realized that the recipes found on the
> retailer's website that they had claimed to be their own recipes, were
> in fact those written by Ian K. Philpott - some of the recipes had the
> occasional measurement change, but the description, ingredients, and
> methods were the same, word for word (except in situations where Ian
> wrote "my wife", the retailer swapped "we" or "our").
>
> I wrote to the retailer and asked them what was up - the response I got
> was that the recipes were indeed found online, but that they took a lot
> of time in testing out each recipe, blah blah blah. But that didn't
> explain why the Philpotts' recipes were claimed as the retailer's own,
> word for word with no credit given to the Philpotts whatsoever. I also
> contacted the owner of another website who did have the Philpotts recipe
> collection, but he gave credit where credit was due and he was aware of
> the situation with the retailer, but he felt that piracy was so rampant
> that his hands were tied and he felt that there was nothing to be done.
>
> So, a recent discussion on another group recipe copyrights made me
> think about this retailer again. Maybe if enough people raised a stink
> about it, they'd either give proper credit to the Philpotts or they'd
> take the recipes down instead of trying to profit off of them. What
> would you do? Yeah, maybe I shouldn't care so much because it's not
> hurting me personally, but I knew Ian through the few mailing lists that
> we were both members of before he passed away and so in a very small
> way, I feel like his "legacy" needs to be protected, y'know?
>
> N.


Generally, the list of ingredients is not copyrightable, but the
assembly and cooking directions might be. The more detailed and wordy
the directions, the more likely it is covered by copyright.
Then, even if the individual recipes cannot be copyrighted, I think the
collection can be.

Enforcement of a copyright on a recipe is gonna be difficult. For one
thing, how would damages be assessed?
It might be best to just start a smear campaign against the thief who
republished them without giving credit to the author, and try to
pressure them into giving the credit that is due.

I know it really ****es me off to find my original recipes republished
without my permission and without any attribution, but there's not much
I can do about it.

Best regards,
Bob

>spamalicious wrote:
>> About a year or so ago, I was doing a search for Thai recipes when I
>> came across a website for an importer of Thai foodstuff - ingredients,
>> cookware, etc. I looked through their extensive recipe collection and
>> thought that it looked rather good, but something about the recipes rang
>> familiar. I searched other links and came across the Philpotts' recipes
>> (Ian and Muoi) that I had seen in various newsgroups and mailing lists
>> in years past and was happy to have found them again. When reading
>> through a few of them, I realized that the recipes found on the
>> retailer's website that they had claimed to be their own recipes, were
>> in fact those written by Ian K. Philpott - some of the recipes had the
>> occasional measurement change, but the description, ingredients, and
>> methods were the same, word for word (except in situations where Ian
>> wrote "my wife", the retailer swapped "we" or "our").
>>
>> I wrote to the retailer and asked them what was up - the response I got
>> was that the recipes were indeed found online, but that they took a lot
>> of time in testing out each recipe, blah blah blah. But that didn't
>> explain why the Philpotts' recipes were claimed as the retailer's own,
>> word for word with no credit given to the Philpotts whatsoever. I also
>> contacted the owner of another website who did have the Philpotts recipe
>> collection, but he gave credit where credit was due and he was aware of
>> the situation with the retailer, but he felt that piracy was so rampant
>> that his hands were tied and he felt that there was nothing to be done.
>>
>> So, a recent discussion on another group recipe copyrights made me
>> think about this retailer again. Maybe if enough people raised a stink
>> about it, they'd either give proper credit to the Philpotts or they'd
>> take the recipes down instead of trying to profit off of them. What
>> would you do? Yeah, maybe I shouldn't care so much because it's not
>> hurting me personally, but I knew Ian through the few mailing lists that
>> we were both members of before he passed away and so in a very small
>> way, I feel like his "legacy" needs to be protected, y'know?

Individual recipes per se (list of ingredients and directions) cannot be
copyrighted, however accompanying ancecdotal text may qualify for copyright
protection.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

spamalicious > wrote:

> When reading
> through a few of them, I realized that the recipes found on the
> retailer's website that they had claimed to be their own recipes, were
> in fact those written by Ian K. Philpott - some of the recipes had the
> occasional measurement change, but the description, ingredients, and
> methods were the same, word for word (except in situations where Ian
> wrote "my wife", the retailer swapped "we" or "our").

It is generally held, at least in the USA, that a list of ingredients
cannot be copyrighted, but an accompanying text, whether constituting
directions or not, can be - *if* it constitutes a "substantial literary
expression". I have once posted a lengthy message on the subject - see
<http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/f3ace0c0eeeeb7a3>.

However, the late Col. Philpott posted from Thailand and the recipes
were his wife's, a Thai citizen. Copyright in the international context
- and especially its interpretation - may well be somewhat different.
After all, there is still no such thing as universally accepted
international copyright, the Bern Convention notwithstanding.

AFAIK, neither Col. Philpott, nor his wife, have ever released a
commercial - or just any - collection of their recipes. I doubt they
would (have) object(ed) to a non-commercial publication of the posted
recipes with a faithful attribution. It is, apparently not the case in
the present instance. So, if what you say is true, the perpetrators
are true rats and should be caused as much pain and embarrassment as
one can muster.

Victor

spamalicious > wrote:

> When reading
> through a few of them, I realized that the recipes found on the
> retailer's website that they had claimed to be their own recipes, were
> in fact those written by Ian K. Philpott - some of the recipes had the
> occasional measurement change, but the description, ingredients, and
> methods were the same, word for word (except in situations where Ian
> wrote "my wife", the retailer swapped "we" or "our").

It is generally held, at least in the USA, that a list of ingredients
cannot be copyrighted, but an accompanying text, whether constituting
directions or not, can be - *if* it constitutes a "substantial literary
expression". I have once posted a lengthy message on the subject - see
<http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/f3ace0c0eeeeb7a3>.

However, the late Col. Philpott posted from Thailand and the recipes
were his wife's, a Thai citizen. Copyright in the international context
- and especially its interpretation - may well be somewhat different.
After all, there is still no such thing as universally accepted
international copyright, the Bern Convention notwithstanding.

AFAIK, neither Col. Philpott, nor his wife, have ever released a
commercial - or just any - collection of their recipes. I doubt they
would (have) object(ed) to a non-commercial publication of the posted
recipes with a faithful attribution. It is, apparently not the case in
the present instance. So, if what you say is true, the perpetrators
are true rats and should be caused as much pain and embarrassment as
one can muster.

Victor