I'm getting increasingly frustrated at having to dig around the back of
cupboards to find the right size lids for a tupperware bowl.

I've had the idea of trying to find some sort of filing tray that i can
attach to the back of a kitchen cupboard door that i can use to store the
lids for my various tupperware bowls. Obviously they'd have to be thin
enough so that i could shut the door.

I've drawn a picture of what i'm trying to explain.
It's available at http://home.btconnect.com/dtwilliams/kitchen.gif

Anyone got any ideas where i could get such an item in the UK?
Suppose i could take a look in my local stationary store.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or alternatives ideas.

Dan Williams

Dan Williams wrote:

> I've had the idea of trying to find some sort of filing tray that i can
> attach to the back of a kitchen cupboard door that i can use to store the
> lids for my various tupperware bowls. Obviously they'd have to be thin
> enough so that i could shut the door.

Tupperware makes them. I used to have them, if I still did I would
send them to you.

nancy

I use one of those (rather tacky) paper napkin holders, in yellow plastic,
inside a cabinet, against the end of the cabinet. It holds several Tupperware
lids, and is very handy. And I can shut the cabinet door and not have to look
at it.
Nancree

Tupperware does make them.....I have several and love them---I also have one
that holds the Plastic Grocery bags.
Trina
"Dan Williams" > wrote in message
...
> I'm getting increasingly frustrated at having to dig around the back of
> cupboards to find the right size lids for a tupperware bowl.
>
> I've had the idea of trying to find some sort of filing tray that i can
> attach to the back of a kitchen cupboard door that i can use to store the
> lids for my various tupperware bowls. Obviously they'd have to be thin
> enough so that i could shut the door.
>
> I've drawn a picture of what i'm trying to explain.
> It's available at http://home.btconnect.com/dtwilliams/kitchen.gif
>
> Anyone got any ideas where i could get such an item in the UK?
> Suppose i could take a look in my local stationary store.
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or alternatives ideas.
>
> Dan Williams

Dan Williams wrote:

> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or alternatives ideas.


Why not just store the lids on the appropriate container?

~john

Levelwave© wrote:
>
> Dan Williams wrote:
>
> > Thanks in advance for any suggestions or alternatives ideas.
>
> Why not just store the lids on the appropriate container?
>
> ~john

a) Then they wouldn't stack and would take up much more room

b) All that trapped moisture, yuck. I always leave them stacked
slightly askew to make sure they can really dry.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote:
> Levelwave© wrote:
>>
>> Dan Williams wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or alternatives ideas.
>>
>> Why not just store the lids on the appropriate container?
>>
>> ~john
>
> a) Then they wouldn't stack and would take up much more room
>
> b) All that trapped moisture, yuck. I always leave them stacked
> slightly askew to make sure they can really dry.
>
> nancy

Heh. Dry the containers before storing them. I don't have tons of
like-sized containers but they still stack okay. The more flat ones go on
the bottom, the medium-round ones on top of those and the small round ones
on top of those.

I don't use 'Tupperware'; I use those Rubbermaid Serv'n'Savers. Much less
expensive.

Jill

jmcquown wrote:
>
> Nancy Young wrote:

> >> Why not just store the lids on the appropriate container?

> >> ~john
> >
> > a) Then they wouldn't stack and would take up much more room
> >
> > b) All that trapped moisture, yuck. I always leave them stacked
> > slightly askew to make sure they can really dry.
> >
> > nancy
>
> Heh. Dry the containers before storing them.

No, they don't really dry, if you want to put them away in any
reasonable time, dry dry dry and they will still be wet.

> I don't use 'Tupperware'; I use those Rubbermaid Serv'n'Savers. Much less
> expensive.

I keep them so long and like them a lot, that the price is not a
consideration.

I do need a couple of new lids, though.

nancy

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> Nancy Young wrote:
> > Levelwave© wrote:
> >>
> >> Dan Williams wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or alternatives ideas.
> >>
> >> Why not just store the lids on the appropriate container?
> >>
> >> ~john
> >
> > a) Then they wouldn't stack and would take up much more room
> >
> > b) All that trapped moisture, yuck. I always leave them stacked
> > slightly askew to make sure they can really dry.
> >
> > nancy
>
> Heh. Dry the containers before storing them. I don't have tons of
> like-sized containers but they still stack okay. The more flat ones go on
> the bottom, the medium-round ones on top of those and the small round ones
> on top of those.
>
> I don't use 'Tupperware'; I use those Rubbermaid Serv'n'Savers. Much less
> expensive.
>
> Jill

Rubbermaid is also much less air tight, much less guaranteed, much less
durable if frozen...

Yvette, big Tupperware fan.

jmcquown wrote:
>
> Nancy Young wrote:

> > b) All that trapped moisture, yuck. I always leave them stacked
> > slightly askew to make sure they can really dry.

> Heh. Dry the containers before storing them.

Heh yourself, dry them all you want, they're still damp.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>
>>Nancy Young wrote:
>
>
>>>b) All that trapped moisture, yuck. I always leave them stacked
>>> slightly askew to make sure they can really dry.
>
>
>>Heh. Dry the containers before storing them.
>
>
> Heh yourself, dry them all you want, they're still damp.
>
> nancy

Around here, clean dishes tend to hang around a couple of days before
being put away. Always well dried. :-)

--Charlene

--
It would be better not know so many things than to know so many things
that are not so. -- Felix Okoye

--

email perronnelle at earthlink . net

Nancy Young > had some very interesting
things to say about Storage for Tupperware lids:

>> Why not just store the lids on the appropriate container?
>a) Then they wouldn't stack and would take up much more room

I like to nest containers [I have a lot of a different brand] with
lids on their containers. For my storage space, this works. As for
dampness, I don't put things away until they're dry in the first
place.
--
"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be
doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding.
:-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL

In article >, Levelwave(C)
> wrote:

> Dan Williams wrote:
>
> > Thanks in advance for any suggestions or alternatives ideas.
>
>
> Why not just store the lids on the appropriate container?
>
> ~john

Not a good use of space. The bowls often nest; with the lids on, they
can't nest.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> updated 2-19-04 -- Dufus picture posted!

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> Not a good use of space. The bowls often nest; with the lids on, they
> can't nest.


Nest they can!... Ever heard of a Barrel of Monkeys? : ) Place a small
bowl with the lid on inside a bowl one size larger... then place the lid
on top of that bowl... continue for bowl 2 +...+ n-1. As long as you
have sufficiently larger bowl then there is no space wasted...

~john



--
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized
nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police
more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
-- Adolph Hitler, 1935


"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The
prohibition of private firearms is the goal."
-- Janet Reno US Attorney General

Levelwave© wrote:
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
>> Not a good use of space. The bowls often nest; with the lids on,
>> they can't nest.
>
>
> Nest they can!... Ever heard of a Barrel of Monkeys? : ) Place a
> small bowl with the lid on inside a bowl one size larger... then
> place the lid on top of that bowl... continue for bowl 2 +...+ n-1.
> As long as you have sufficiently larger bowl then there is no space
> wasted...
>
> ~john

This assumes they are all the same (relative) shape

Jill

> "jmcquown" writes:
>
>Levelwave© wrote:
>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>
>>> Not a good use of space. The bowls often nest; with the lids on,
>>> they can't nest.
>>
>>
>> Nest they can!... Ever heard of a Barrel of Monkeys? : ) Place a
>> small bowl with the lid on inside a bowl one size larger... then
>> place the lid on top of that bowl... continue for bowl 2 +...+ n-1.
>> As long as you have sufficiently larger bowl then there is no space
>> wasted...
>
>This assumes they are all the same (relative) shape

Basically true, allowing for subjectivity regarding 'space'. I no longer use
long lasting plastic containers (tupperware and ilk), they become grungy
looking and begin to smell funny but are kinda costly to just toss, but
eventually I did put them in the trash. I've switched to those inexpensive
throwaways, the type that cost about 50¢ each in packages of four and are
supposed to last about 4 uses... but I've found that with a modicum of care
they last through dozens of uses, including machine washings.... most important
care factor I've discovered is not to attempt lid removal while still frozen or
the thin plastic lid is apt to shatter... I don't know why they use different
plastic for the lids (yes I do)... a minute in the nuker and the lid peels off
easily. I use only the flat rectangular ones, they take up way less freezer
space than rounds, I use them for freezing my garden veggies; sauce and
ratatouille. For fridge storage of left overs I have an assortment of glass
containers with glass lids... safe to reheat in the nuker or oven, imparts no
odors, contents are visible, are attractive for serving, and I have sets that
nest.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

In article >, Levelwave(C)
> wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> > Not a good use of space. The bowls often nest; with the lids on, they
> > can't nest.
>
>
> Nest they can!... Ever heard of a Barrel of Monkeys? : ) Place a small
> bowl with the lid on inside a bowl one size larger... then place the lid
> on top of that bowl... continue for bowl 2 +...+ n-1. As long as you
> have sufficiently larger bowl then there is no space wasted...
>
> ~john

DING!!! LOL!! I stand corrected! Thanks for that reminder.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> updated 2-19-04 -- Dufus picture posted!

Levelwave© > wrote in message Ever heard of a Barrel of Monkeys? : ) Place a small
> bowl with the lid on inside a bowl one size larger... then place the lid
> on top of that bowl... continue for bowl 2 +...+ n-1. As long as you
> have sufficiently larger bowl then there is no space wasted...

yeah, but doesn't this take a lot of discipline to put them back
correctly according to the system? also, a pain to retrieve the guy
in the middle, no?

I store with lids on - course, I am blessed with tons of cabinets
space, which I didn't always have. I have been thru the nesting bit -
big time.

>Dan Williams
; inquires:
>
>I'm getting increasingly frustrated at having to dig around the back of
>cupboards to find the right size lids for a tupperware bowl.
>
>I've had the idea of trying to find some sort of filing tray that i can
>attach to the back of a kitchen cupboard door that i can use to store the
>lids for my various tupperware bowls. Obviously they'd have to be thin
>enough so that i could shut the door.
>
>I've drawn a picture of what i'm trying to explain.
>It's available at http://home.btconnect.com/dtwilliams/kitchen.gif
>
>Anyone got any ideas where i could get such an item in the UK?
>Suppose i could take a look in my local stationary store.
>
>Thanks in advance for any suggestions or alternatives ideas.

In the US one can easily accquire such devices made of vinyl clad wire... made
in infinite configurations... don't yoose UKers have anything akin to Home
Depot?


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

"Dan Williams" > wrote in message
...
> I'm getting increasingly frustrated at having to dig around the back of
> cupboards to find the right size lids for a tupperware bowl.
>
> I've had the idea of trying to find some sort of filing tray that i can
> attach to the back of a kitchen cupboard door that i can use to store the
> lids for my various tupperware bowls. Obviously they'd have to be thin
> enough so that i could shut the door.

Although Tupperware makes one, I have too many lids of all shapes to make
their holder practical. I just bought a few plastic baskets and use one for
small round seals, one for rectangular and square ones and one for larger
round seals. I used to be a TW dealer so have ended up with way too many
containers in my cupboard.

Have to agree with Nancy. I never store my empty containers with the lids
on as it takes up too much space. And yes they are a pain to dry -- yet I
love them and have had them for years.

Gabby

A cereal box worked for me one time. I used duct tape to secure it to the
door.
Not long ago I used a staple gun, not a desk top stapler, to attach 1/2"
wide clothing elastic to the inside of the cabinet door. I hold my coffee
filters this way. I also used a length of it for holding measuring spoons,
just stapled at intervals to allow a space for each spoon to hand upside
down. I'd do more but I just have not gotten around to it.

Your drawing is great by the way. Bet you're good at the game called
Pictionary.

Yvette



"Dan Williams" > wrote in message
...
> I'm getting increasingly frustrated at having to dig around the back of
> cupboards to find the right size lids for a tupperware bowl.
>
> I've had the idea of trying to find some sort of filing tray that i can
> attach to the back of a kitchen cupboard door that i can use to store the
> lids for my various tupperware bowls. Obviously they'd have to be thin
> enough so that i could shut the door.
>
> I've drawn a picture of what i'm trying to explain.
> It's available at http://home.btconnect.com/dtwilliams/kitchen.gif
>
> Anyone got any ideas where i could get such an item in the UK?
> Suppose i could take a look in my local stationary store.
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or alternatives ideas.
>
> Dan Williams

In article >, Dan Williams
> wrote:

> I'm getting increasingly frustrated at having to dig around the back of
> cupboards to find the right size lids for a tupperware bowl.
>
> I've had the idea of trying to find some sort of filing tray that i can
> attach to the back of a kitchen cupboard door that i can use to store the
> lids for my various tupperware bowls. Obviously they'd have to be thin
> enough so that i could shut the door.
>
> I've drawn a picture of what i'm trying to explain.
> It's available at http://home.btconnect.com/dtwilliams/kitchen.gif
>
> Anyone got any ideas where i could get such an item in the UK?
> Suppose i could take a look in my local stationary store.
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or alternatives ideas.
>
> Dan Williams

Hmmmmm. Tupperware does or did make a lid holder. The first one
attached to whatever vertical surface at a 90 deg angle. It
accommodated the tab lids that had a sort of slotted opening. The lids
hung down from the rack vertically. The most recent lid holder I have
from them is like a pocket file sort of thingy. I've just posted a
picture of it to my web page <www.jamlady.eboard.com>. Hope that helps.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> updated 2-19-04 -- Dufus picture posted!

In regard to Dan's inquiry about storing Tupperware lids....
Many kitchens have gas as the fuel resource, with the hood-over stove
that has the odd and bulky "pipe" fixture within an all but useless
cupboard atop the hood-fan structure. I hadn't even thought of using
that cupboard for anything I actually use often until now. 'Twould make
a good storage area for every lid I may have, which must be over 50, but
I've room for and am happy with what I have in use for storage. I use a
floor to ceiling, deep pantry-type cupboard for all of my baking pans,
pitchers, measuring "cups" and all my plastic storage containers. I am
fortunate(?) to have a near never use for a Tupperware sheet cake
container, and one bread baking pan that I store all lids in...smaller
ones stacked on edge in size-order in the bread pan, larger ones stacked
on edge in the cake carrier, both containers sitting in the very front
of the tallest shelf section, with my bigger congtainers stacked inside
one another behind them.

Picky ~JA~

Dan Williams > writes:

>Suppose i could take a look in my local stationary store.
>

What you've drawn looks very much like a wall-mounted file pocket, called in
this link a "wall file." They're available in all sizes, colors,
configurations, price ranges, and even two or three stacked.

http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=311542
http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=141259

Connie
************************************************** ***
My mind is like a steel...um, whatchamacallit.

I use a plastic paper napkin holder inside a cabinet. Holds lots of lids.

"Dan Williams" > wrote in
message ...
: I'm getting increasingly frustrated at having to dig around the
back of
: cupboards to find the right size lids for a tupperware bowl.
:
: I've had the idea of trying to find some sort of filing tray
that i can
: attach to the back of a kitchen cupboard door that i can use to
store the
: lids for my various tupperware bowls. Obviously they'd have to
be thin
: enough so that i could shut the door.
:
: I've drawn a picture of what i'm trying to explain.
: It's available at
http://home.btconnect.com/dtwilliams/kitchen.gif
:
: Anyone got any ideas where i could get such an item in the UK?
: Suppose i could take a look in my local stationary store.
:
: Thanks in advance for any suggestions or alternatives ideas.
:
: Dan Williams
========

Tupperware used to sell little gizmos very similar to your
drawing that mounted inside the cabinet doors... You may want to
contact a Tupperware representatives to see if you can get those.

--
Cyndi
<Remove a "b" to reply>

(Dan=A0Williams) wrote:

I'm getting increasingly frustrated at having to dig around the back of
cupboards to find the right size lids for a tupperware bowl.
<snip>
/////////

I know this sounds kind of shabby sheik, but I use a shoe box that sets
inside the cupboard for all my lids and stack bottoms, all like shapes,
small inside of large on the neighboring shelves.

Someone in a previous post mentioned that using a similar technique was
worth the little time it took to do this. I agree, I can now match up
lids with bottoms quickly and use the least amount of space possible. I
wish I had done it sooner.

Sincerely, Helen

"Dan Williams" > wrote in message
...
> I'm getting increasingly frustrated at having to dig around the back of
> cupboards to find the right size lids for a tupperware bowl.

http://order.tupperware.com/pls/htpr...ow_item_detail

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:50:07 +0000 (UTC), Dan Williams
> wrote:

> I'm getting increasingly frustrated at having to dig around the
> back of cupboards to find the right size lids for a tupperware
> bowl.

(snip)

> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or alternatives ideas.

Here's an alternate idea, since I have more lids to Tupperware,
Rubbermaid, Glad Ware, etc., than a cupboard-mount holder can contain:
I keep all of the containers on one big shelf in my kitchen cabinets,
nested where that works with the sizes/shapes I have. All lids are
stacked (upright, not flat) in a dishpan in a drawer, by size.

So everything's relatively contained, and it's easy to find the right
lid when needed. More importantly, when I first set that up, it was
obvious how many missing bits there were, so I bought either lids or
containers to match from Tupperware, and discarded items for which I
could no longer get the matching part.

I've tried the basket system, looked for lid holders (too expensive)

finally decided the best way to store is with the lids on. saves
later frustration. This will also identify lids with no partners, ergo
you can reduce lid clutter (bottom clutter too)
they don't nest well, they tend to stick or get wedged in too tight,
and it's a pain and time waster to put them away in proper nesting
order.

sorry, I can't resist- stationERy, when you mean papER, stationAry
when you mean plAce.

In rec.food.cooking val189 > wrote:

> finally decided the best way to store is with the lids on. saves
> later frustration. This will also identify lids with no partners, ergo
> you can reduce lid clutter (bottom clutter too)


Am I the only one who does this? I nest them, with the lid UNDER the
container. So I take my big huge lid, and put it on the shelf. Then the
big huge container sits on top of it.

Into that, I put the medium lid, with the medium container on top of it.

And so on.

They nest, AND the lids stay with the proper container so I need not
search for the right lid.

I have three stacks: One for the square containers, one for the rounds,
and one for the oblongs.

--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who

We just have two shelves in the cupboard for them. We nest similar
shapes together. The lids just go vertically to one side or the other.

Linda
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
"...What they say, don't believe;
Every hope needs room to breathe.
Show me where it says
I can't keep dreamin'.
Ain't no law that says
I can't keep dreamin'..."
......Rupert Holmes, "Show Me Where It Says"

That is how I do it: lid under the container, then the next smaller lid
inside it and the matching container on top of that lid.

I do have one set of bowls and covers that can nest inside one another with
the covers on. They're for Passover, meaning that they're used only about 8
days a year. Nesting with covers on seems inconvenient for containers that
get used frequently; wouldn't it be annoying to have to open several
containers before you could reach the smallest one?

> Am I the only one who does this? I nest them, with the lid UNDER the
> container. So I take my big huge lid, and put it on the shelf. Then the
> big huge container sits on top of it.
>
> Into that, I put the medium lid, with the medium container on top of it.
>
> And so on.
>
> They nest, AND the lids stay with the proper container so I need not
> search for the right lid.
>
> I have three stacks: One for the square containers, one for the rounds,
> and one for the oblongs.

val189 wrote:

>I've tried the basket system, looked for lid holders (too expensive)
>
>finally decided the best way to store is with the lids on. saves
>later frustration. This will also identify lids with no partners, ergo
>you can reduce lid clutter (bottom clutter too)
>they don't nest well, they tend to stick or get wedged in too tight,
>and it's a pain and time waster to put them away in proper nesting
>order.
>
>sorry, I can't resist- stationERy, when you mean papER, stationAry
>when you mean plAce.
>
>
Okay, we're waiting for a report on you where abouts the last few days.

Barbara in CT

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:29:15 GMT, Barbara Mawdsley
> wrote:

>val189 wrote:
>
>>I've tried the basket system, looked for lid holders (too expensive)
>>
>>finally decided the best way to store is with the lids on. saves
>>later frustration. This will also identify lids with no partners, ergo
>>you can reduce lid clutter (bottom clutter too)
>>they don't nest well, they tend to stick or get wedged in too tight,
>>and it's a pain and time waster to put them away in proper nesting
>>order.

Someone has a nice big kitchen to store plastic containers with the
lids on! As for me, I use the basket system for lids and nest the
bowls. I also have mastered jamming, then closing cupboard doors
really fast :>

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:44:08 GMT,
(Curly Sue) wrote:

>
> I also have mastered jamming, then closing cupboard doors
> really fast :>
>
In my kitchen, sometimes additional "foot" support is needed
to get the door closed. LOL!


Practice safe eating - always use condiments

Barbara Mawdsley > wrote

> Okay, we're waiting for a report on you where abouts the last few days.

I jetted away to the South of France for some languorous days and
nights with the local tall, tanned tennis pro, an Adonis of half my
age. But, my 54 cupboards beckoned me back to this more satsifying
existence replete with non-nesting Tupps.

"val189" > wrote in message
om...
> Barbara Mawdsley > wrote
>
> > Okay, we're waiting for a report on you where abouts the last
few days.
>
> I jetted away to the South of France for some languorous days
and
> nights with the local tall, tanned tennis pro, an Adonis of
half my
> age. But, my 54 cupboards beckoned me back to this more
satsifying
> existence replete with non-nesting Tupps.

I know, Vigo told me all about it while he was fixing drinks
tonight. I did miss him, and you of course, but he gives such
good back massages and I was very glad he came back. Now if he
can get caught up on the laundry and finishing raking the leaves
outside I'll be happy once more. I had forgotten just how
annoying decluttering and house work can be. *sigh* I broke a
nail while polishing my sink! Plus his new spandex and lycra
workout outfit came while he was gone and I just can't wait until
DH leaves tomorrow so Vigo can try it on. You guys must have had
some luscious French meals, cause he looks like he might have
added a pound or two. Shame on you, you should have worked him
harder.

Deena

"Barbara Mawdsley" > wrote in message
. com...
> Okay, we're waiting for a report on you where abouts the last few days.
>
> Barbara in CT

Same here! Hope it was a vacation and not a sad occurance.

helena

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:50:07 +0000 (UTC), Dan Williams
> wrote:

>I'm getting increasingly frustrated at having to dig around the back of
>cupboards to find the right size lids for a tupperware bowl.
>
>I've had the idea of trying to find some sort of filing tray that i can
>attach to the back of a kitchen cupboard door that i can use to store the
>lids for my various tupperware bowls. Obviously they'd have to be thin
>enough so that i could shut the door.
>
>I've drawn a picture of what i'm trying to explain.
>It's available at http://home.btconnect.com/dtwilliams/kitchen.gif
>
>Anyone got any ideas where i could get such an item in the UK?
>Suppose i could take a look in my local stationary store.
>
>Thanks in advance for any suggestions or alternatives ideas.
>
>Dan Williams

IKEA have inexpensive metal baskets designed for fixing inside kitchen
cabinet doors. I have one that is 33cm wide, 16cm high at the front
and 11cm wide, IIRC cost about £3.

Rich

....stuff is just stuff. It can't love you, it can't take care of you. It is just something
for you to deal with--it complicates life. Brenda, arc 2004.