"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:43:19 -0500, Tony P.
> > wrote:
>
>> Lastly it is because we've bred our animals to be lean. Fat does lend a
>> large amount of flavor to many foods.
>
> 30 years ago pork was going lean - but 40 years ago, pork
> was so full of fat that it was absolutely disgusting to eat.
> I love it now, but you couldn't have paid me to eat pork
> roast even 35 years ago.

Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a local farm
that raises and sells pork.

nancy

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:43:19 -0500, Tony P.
> > wrote:
>
>> Lastly it is because we've bred our animals to be lean. Fat does lend a
>> large amount of flavor to many foods.
>
> 30 years ago pork was going lean - but 40 years ago, pork
> was so full of fat that it was absolutely disgusting to eat.
> I love it now, but you couldn't have paid me to eat pork
> roast even 35 years ago.

Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a local farm
that raises and sells pork.

nancy

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:43:19 -0500, Tony P.
> > wrote:
>
>> Lastly it is because we've bred our animals to be lean. Fat does lend a
>> large amount of flavor to many foods.
>
> 30 years ago pork was going lean - but 40 years ago, pork
> was so full of fat that it was absolutely disgusting to eat.
> I love it now, but you couldn't have paid me to eat pork
> roast even 35 years ago.

Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a local farm
that raises and sells pork.

nancy

sf wrote:

>
> 30 years ago pork was going lean - but 40 years ago, pork
> was so full of fat that it was absolutely disgusting to eat.
> I love it now, but you couldn't have paid me to eat pork
> roast even 35 years ago.

Sorry, but I disagree. I loved it. Pork may have had more fat around it, but I
loved it. Maybe it is the reduced fat that is the cause of pork not being as
falvourful any more. I stopped buying pork roasts because they were always
disappointing.

A correction to DM's post. Johnsonville is based out of Sheboygan
Falls, Wisconsin, not from Minnessota as you state.

There is such a town as Johnsonville in Wisc, (But blink your eyes, and
you'll miss it) which is just outside Howard's Grove, Wisc., only a few
miles (About 20) from where they are currently located. Went to high
school here in the 60's, and '70's, so I know the area quite well.

Back then, the area had just about the best "Old timer" sausage makers.
Unfortunately, I've been there a few years ago, and things have changed
quite a bit in this area. Many farms are also now extinct.

And yes, I'll agree with you 100% DM, the Johnsonville smoked
frankfurters have always been the best I've ever tasted in my life.
I've never had none better myself.

I do understand that they still do make these, but they are only sold
locally in the markets out there. A shame, I know.

The current cooked bratwurst that they make, and sell in all the big
chains are not bad, but still not like the franks they make. Mark D.
------------------------------------------------------------

L's remark about franks made me think that supermarket management can
play a major role in monotonizing our food choices. Some years ago our
local Albertson's started carrying Johnsonville sausages from Minnesota.
Along with the brats and Italians they also carried their natural casing
franks. Now Johnsonville is a great big company but the franks were of
good old-fashioned quality, competitively priced, with a nice snap when
you bit into them. But, the local management didn't place them with the
main batch of Johsonville products but in a corner of a showcase where
nobody would expect to find franks. Soon, they quit carrying them. I
complained and was told they just didn't sell- Duh! I wonder why not.
You can get natural casing franks at our local chain, which is
pretentious and overpriced, but they are from Boarshead and aren't as
good and almost twice the price. Just to be fair to the markets though,
I think that part of the problem may be that local consumers don't take
franks seriously and think that they just some more junk for children to
eat. I guess I should also add that the quirky little burg where I live
has more than it's share of veg-heads, animal nuts, and members of the
organic religion.
D.M.

A correction to DM's post. Johnsonville is based out of Sheboygan
Falls, Wisconsin, not from Minnessota as you state.

There is such a town as Johnsonville in Wisc, (But blink your eyes, and
you'll miss it) which is just outside Howard's Grove, Wisc., only a few
miles (About 20) from where they are currently located. Went to high
school here in the 60's, and '70's, so I know the area quite well.

Back then, the area had just about the best "Old timer" sausage makers.
Unfortunately, I've been there a few years ago, and things have changed
quite a bit in this area. Many farms are also now extinct.

And yes, I'll agree with you 100% DM, the Johnsonville smoked
frankfurters have always been the best I've ever tasted in my life.
I've never had none better myself.

I do understand that they still do make these, but they are only sold
locally in the markets out there. A shame, I know.

The current cooked bratwurst that they make, and sell in all the big
chains are not bad, but still not like the franks they make. Mark D.
------------------------------------------------------------

L's remark about franks made me think that supermarket management can
play a major role in monotonizing our food choices. Some years ago our
local Albertson's started carrying Johnsonville sausages from Minnesota.
Along with the brats and Italians they also carried their natural casing
franks. Now Johnsonville is a great big company but the franks were of
good old-fashioned quality, competitively priced, with a nice snap when
you bit into them. But, the local management didn't place them with the
main batch of Johsonville products but in a corner of a showcase where
nobody would expect to find franks. Soon, they quit carrying them. I
complained and was told they just didn't sell- Duh! I wonder why not.
You can get natural casing franks at our local chain, which is
pretentious and overpriced, but they are from Boarshead and aren't as
good and almost twice the price. Just to be fair to the markets though,
I think that part of the problem may be that local consumers don't take
franks seriously and think that they just some more junk for children to
eat. I guess I should also add that the quirky little burg where I live
has more than it's share of veg-heads, animal nuts, and members of the
organic religion.
D.M.

On 4-Jan-2005, sf > wrote:

> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 23:21:43 GMT, "L" >
> wrote:
>
> > 30 years ago their was much more variety; meat generally came from
> > regional
> > processors who had their own way of doing things.
>
>
> How young are you? Meat was mass produced 30 years ago and
> there wasn't much to say about most regional producers other
> than they were regional mass producers.
>
> sf
> who remembers when Foster Farms wasn't a national brand
>
> sf

I'm 57. What are you, 12 years old; you act it? You are either a fool or
just like to argue. Grow up.


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x-- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD

On 4-Jan-2005, sf > wrote:

> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 23:21:43 GMT, "L" >
> wrote:
>
> > 30 years ago their was much more variety; meat generally came from
> > regional
> > processors who had their own way of doing things.
>
>
> How young are you? Meat was mass produced 30 years ago and
> there wasn't much to say about most regional producers other
> than they were regional mass producers.
>
> sf
> who remembers when Foster Farms wasn't a national brand
>
> sf

I'm 57. What are you, 12 years old; you act it? You are either a fool or
just like to argue. Grow up.


x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
x-- 3,500+ Binary NewsGroups, and over 90,000 other groups
x-- Access to over 1 Terabyte per Day - $8.95/Month
x-- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD

"Donna" > wrote in message
...
> Is it just me, or does chicken today really not taste as good as it did,
> say, 30 years ago?
>
> Donna

It has changed.

If Chicken has changed that much in the last 30 years think what its going
to taste like in 2035.


Dimitri

"Donna" > wrote in message
...
> Is it just me, or does chicken today really not taste as good as it did,
> say, 30 years ago?
>
> Donna

It has changed.

If Chicken has changed that much in the last 30 years think what its going
to taste like in 2035.


Dimitri

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:07:53 -0500, "Nancy Young" >
wrote:

>
>"sf" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:43:19 -0500, Tony P.
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Lastly it is because we've bred our animals to be lean. Fat does lend a
>>> large amount of flavor to many foods.
>>
>> 30 years ago pork was going lean - but 40 years ago, pork
>> was so full of fat that it was absolutely disgusting to eat.
>> I love it now, but you couldn't have paid me to eat pork
>> roast even 35 years ago.
>
>Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a local farm
>that raises and sells pork.
>
>nancy
>
I am fortunate to have a local farmer that raises traditional pigs.
Hence I have had no occasion to try Nyman Ranch pork, although I have
tasted it in a restaurant (and liked it). I am told by people I trust
that the pigs are humanely raised.

FWIW




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

Entering your freshman dorm for the first time, and seeing
an axe head come through the door on your right.

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:07:53 -0500, "Nancy Young" >
wrote:

>
>"sf" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:43:19 -0500, Tony P.
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Lastly it is because we've bred our animals to be lean. Fat does lend a
>>> large amount of flavor to many foods.
>>
>> 30 years ago pork was going lean - but 40 years ago, pork
>> was so full of fat that it was absolutely disgusting to eat.
>> I love it now, but you couldn't have paid me to eat pork
>> roast even 35 years ago.
>
>Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a local farm
>that raises and sells pork.
>
>nancy
>
I am fortunate to have a local farmer that raises traditional pigs.
Hence I have had no occasion to try Nyman Ranch pork, although I have
tasted it in a restaurant (and liked it). I am told by people I trust
that the pigs are humanely raised.

FWIW




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

Entering your freshman dorm for the first time, and seeing
an axe head come through the door on your right.

Better years ago.
Chef R. W. Miller
Marriott Resorts & Hotels
"Donna" > wrote in message
...
> Is it just me, or does chicken today really not taste as good as it did,
> say, 30 years ago?
>
> Donna
>
>

Better years ago.
Chef R. W. Miller
Marriott Resorts & Hotels
"Donna" > wrote in message
...
> Is it just me, or does chicken today really not taste as good as it did,
> say, 30 years ago?
>
> Donna
>
>

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:07:53 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> wrote:

> Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a local farm
> that raises and sells pork.

I don't think you'll find it these days unless you find an
"heirloom" pig.

sf

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:07:53 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> wrote:

> Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a local farm
> that raises and sells pork.

I don't think you'll find it these days unless you find an
"heirloom" pig.

sf

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 09:24:04 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> sf wrote:
>
> >
> > 30 years ago pork was going lean - but 40 years ago, pork
> > was so full of fat that it was absolutely disgusting to eat.
> > I love it now, but you couldn't have paid me to eat pork
> > roast even 35 years ago.
>
> Sorry, but I disagree. I loved it. Pork may have had more fat around it, but I
> loved it. Maybe it is the reduced fat that is the cause of pork not being as
> falvourful any more. I stopped buying pork roasts because they were always
> disappointing.
>
You didn't have ANY pork roasts with gobs of fat in the
middle in those days? That's what I objected to.

sf

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 09:24:04 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> sf wrote:
>
> >
> > 30 years ago pork was going lean - but 40 years ago, pork
> > was so full of fat that it was absolutely disgusting to eat.
> > I love it now, but you couldn't have paid me to eat pork
> > roast even 35 years ago.
>
> Sorry, but I disagree. I loved it. Pork may have had more fat around it, but I
> loved it. Maybe it is the reduced fat that is the cause of pork not being as
> falvourful any more. I stopped buying pork roasts because they were always
> disappointing.
>
You didn't have ANY pork roasts with gobs of fat in the
middle in those days? That's what I objected to.

sf

sf wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:07:53 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> > wrote:
>
>> Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a
>> local farm that raises and sells pork.
>
> I don't think you'll find it these days unless you find an
> "heirloom" pig.
>
> sf

Funny, my bacon always has lots of fat. And I can't figure out where they
get it if not from a fatty pig

Jill

sf wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:07:53 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> > wrote:
>
>> Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a
>> local farm that raises and sells pork.
>
> I don't think you'll find it these days unless you find an
> "heirloom" pig.
>
> sf

Funny, my bacon always has lots of fat. And I can't figure out where they
get it if not from a fatty pig

Jill

Try an Amish farmer. THey usually raise heirloom tasting livestock.

Try an Amish farmer. THey usually raise heirloom tasting livestock.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:07:53 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> > wrote:
>
>> Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a local
>> farm
>> that raises and sells pork.
>
> I don't think you'll find it these days unless you find an
> "heirloom" pig.

Yeah, I'm looking for some place where I could drive to and pick it up ...
like, the farm.
That's not going to be around here, that's for sure. I tried and many of
the places
within reasonable driving distance were no longer in business, or didn't
sell retail or
blah blah blah. I'll get a fire lit under my butt about it again and I'll
go back to my
search. Thanks.

nancy

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
news
>> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:07:53 -0500, "Nancy Young"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a
>>> local farm that raises and sells pork.

> Funny, my bacon always has lots of fat. And I can't figure out where they
> get it if not from a fatty pig

(laugh) Don't ask me, I rarely get a good flavorful pork chop or roast
anymore. When I was a kid, I loved when it was pork chops for dinner.
Now I barely take more than a few bites. It's better if I brine it for a
bit.

nancy

sf wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:07:53 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> > wrote:
>
>
>> Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a local farm
>> that raises and sells pork.
>
>
> I don't think you'll find it these days unless you find an
> "heirloom" pig.
>
> sf

I think a search on this group would bring back a previous thread on
this. There are farmers who do raise better pork than the standard
suffermarkets carry.

Neiman Ranch (in TJs?) comes to mind as being a definite step above.

A custom or high level butcher shop may also have a source of better
pork to select from. In San Diego, we have Ohio Meat Farms and its
sister store (can't recall the name - Seidel's?) and Tip Top Meats in
North County that carry far better pork.

However, the leaner pork does not taste nearly as good as the day-to-day
stuff that was around before they began cross breeding for leanness.


jim

sf wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:07:53 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> > wrote:
>
>
>> Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a local farm
>> that raises and sells pork.
>
>
> I don't think you'll find it these days unless you find an
> "heirloom" pig.
>
> sf

I think a search on this group would bring back a previous thread on
this. There are farmers who do raise better pork than the standard
suffermarkets carry.

Neiman Ranch (in TJs?) comes to mind as being a definite step above.

A custom or high level butcher shop may also have a source of better
pork to select from. In San Diego, we have Ohio Meat Farms and its
sister store (can't recall the name - Seidel's?) and Tip Top Meats in
North County that carry far better pork.

However, the leaner pork does not taste nearly as good as the day-to-day
stuff that was around before they began cross breeding for leanness.


jim

"JimLane" > wrote in message
...
> sf wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:07:53 -0500, "Nancy Young"
>> > wrote:

>>> Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a local
>>> farm that raises and sells pork.

>> I don't think you'll find it these days unless you find an
>> "heirloom" pig.

> I think a search on this group would bring back a previous thread on this.
> There are farmers who do raise better pork than the standard suffermarkets
> carry.
>
> Neiman Ranch (in TJs?) comes to mind as being a definite step above.

They don't even have bone in pork roast. Boneless is not interesting to me.

> A custom or high level butcher shop may also have a source of better pork
> to select from. In San Diego, we have Ohio Meat Farms and its sister store
> (can't recall the name - Seidel's?) and Tip Top Meats in North County that
> carry far better pork.
>
> However, the leaner pork does not taste nearly as good as the day-to-day
> stuff that was around before they began cross breeding for leanness.

That's the truth.

nancy

"JimLane" > wrote in message
...
> sf wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:07:53 -0500, "Nancy Young"
>> > wrote:

>>> Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a local
>>> farm that raises and sells pork.

>> I don't think you'll find it these days unless you find an
>> "heirloom" pig.

> I think a search on this group would bring back a previous thread on this.
> There are farmers who do raise better pork than the standard suffermarkets
> carry.
>
> Neiman Ranch (in TJs?) comes to mind as being a definite step above.

They don't even have bone in pork roast. Boneless is not interesting to me.

> A custom or high level butcher shop may also have a source of better pork
> to select from. In San Diego, we have Ohio Meat Farms and its sister store
> (can't recall the name - Seidel's?) and Tip Top Meats in North County that
> carry far better pork.
>
> However, the leaner pork does not taste nearly as good as the day-to-day
> stuff that was around before they began cross breeding for leanness.

That's the truth.

nancy

In article >, "Nancy Young"
> wrote:


> Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a local farm
> that raises and sells pork.


I've got a place, but I think you are on the wrong coast.

:-(


We went to a neat wedding a few months back. The cook (and mother of the
bride) said that she bought a whole pig from the farm up the hill from
where they held the wedding. It was good pork.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

In article >, "Nancy Young"
> wrote:


> Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a local farm
> that raises and sells pork.


I've got a place, but I think you are on the wrong coast.

:-(


We went to a neat wedding a few months back. The cook (and mother of the
bride) said that she bought a whole pig from the farm up the hill from
where they held the wedding. It was good pork.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:45:42 -0500, "Nancy Young" >
wrote:

>
>"JimLane" > wrote in message
...
>> sf wrote:
>>> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:07:53 -0500, "Nancy Young"
>>> > wrote:
>
>>>> Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a local
>>>> farm that raises and sells pork.
>
>>> I don't think you'll find it these days unless you find an
>>> "heirloom" pig.
>
>> I think a search on this group would bring back a previous thread on this.
>> There are farmers who do raise better pork than the standard suffermarkets
>> carry.
>>
>> Neiman Ranch (in TJs?) comes to mind as being a definite step above.
>
>They don't even have bone in pork roast. Boneless is not interesting to me.
>
>> A custom or high level butcher shop may also have a source of better pork
>> to select from. In San Diego, we have Ohio Meat Farms and its sister store
>> (can't recall the name - Seidel's?) and Tip Top Meats in North County that
>> carry far better pork.
>>
>> However, the leaner pork does not taste nearly as good as the day-to-day
>> stuff that was around before they began cross breeding for leanness.
>
>That's the truth.
>
>nancy
>
Nancy, Google led me to this Web site:
http://www.eatwild.com/products/newjersey.html

If their pastured pork is like what I've had here in Texas, you might
benefit from a taking a little piggy goes to market sort of weekend
excusion.

You are in New Jersey, right?


modom

"Dallas is a rich man with a death wish in his eyes."
-- Jimmie Dale Gilmore

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Donna wrote:
>>
>> Is it just me, or does chicken today really not taste as good as it did,
>> say, 30 years ago?
>>
>> Donna
>
> Easy experiment: get a supermarket chicken (with added 'solution',
> hormones and antibiotics etc) [...]

The use of hormones in poultry production has been illegal in the USA for
about 50 years now. Most major commercial breeders (Tyson, Perdue) don't
use antibiotics, either. AIUI, the main differences in the flavor of
chicken flesh come from feed ingredients and whether the birds are caged or
not.

When I can stomach the higher prices, I buy the "Smart Chicken" brand, which
is processed without the addition of water. The meat is far superior to
regular chicken in both texture and flavor, and it seems to cook "better"
too, not having all that extra water in it. Free-range (whatever that
really means) meat may be even better, I dunno.

http://www.smartchicken.com

Jason (not affiliated, just a happy customer)

"Michael Odom" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:45:42 -0500, "Nancy Young" >
> wrote:
> Nancy, Google led me to this Web site:
> http://www.eatwild.com/products/newjersey.html
>
> If their pastured pork is like what I've had here in Texas, you might
> benefit from a taking a little piggy goes to market sort of weekend
> excusion.
>
> You are in New Jersey, right?

Thanks Michael! That looks perfect, and I can swing over to the Le Crueset
and All Clad outlets while I'm out there!

You're a sweetheart.

nancy

Jason Quick wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Donna wrote:
> >>
> >> Is it just me, or does chicken today really not taste as good as it did,
> >> say, 30 years ago?
> >>
> >> Donna
> >
> > Easy experiment: get a supermarket chicken (with added 'solution',
> > hormones and antibiotics etc) [...]
>
> The use of hormones in poultry production has been illegal in the USA for
> about 50 years now.

Illegal doesn't mean they are not used.


Most major commercial breeders (Tyson, Perdue) don't
> use antibiotics, either.

They have cut down; don't know if they have eliminated them. It's nearly
impossible to raise battery chickens without antibiotics at some point.
The chickens are slaughtered so young, there are likely to be residues.



AIUI, the main differences in the flavor of
> chicken flesh come from feed ingredients and whether the birds are caged or
> not.

Antibiotics are still added to feeds and and some feeds contain things
such as ground up chicken feathers etc.

>
> When I can stomach the higher prices, I buy the "Smart Chicken" brand, which
> is processed without the addition of water. The meat is far superior to
> regular chicken in both texture and flavor, and it seems to cook "better"
> too, not having all that extra water in it. Free-range (whatever that
> really means) meat may be even better, I dunno.
>
> http://www.smartchicken.com
>
> Jason (not affiliated, just a happy customer)

Jason Quick wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Donna wrote:
> >>
> >> Is it just me, or does chicken today really not taste as good as it did,
> >> say, 30 years ago?
> >>
> >> Donna
> >
> > Easy experiment: get a supermarket chicken (with added 'solution',
> > hormones and antibiotics etc) [...]
>
> The use of hormones in poultry production has been illegal in the USA for
> about 50 years now.

Illegal doesn't mean they are not used.


Most major commercial breeders (Tyson, Perdue) don't
> use antibiotics, either.

They have cut down; don't know if they have eliminated them. It's nearly
impossible to raise battery chickens without antibiotics at some point.
The chickens are slaughtered so young, there are likely to be residues.



AIUI, the main differences in the flavor of
> chicken flesh come from feed ingredients and whether the birds are caged or
> not.

Antibiotics are still added to feeds and and some feeds contain things
such as ground up chicken feathers etc.

>
> When I can stomach the higher prices, I buy the "Smart Chicken" brand, which
> is processed without the addition of water. The meat is far superior to
> regular chicken in both texture and flavor, and it seems to cook "better"
> too, not having all that extra water in it. Free-range (whatever that
> really means) meat may be even better, I dunno.
>
> http://www.smartchicken.com
>
> Jason (not affiliated, just a happy customer)

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
> Jason Quick wrote:
>>
>> "Arri London" > wrote in message
>> > Donna wrote:
>> >>
>> > Easy experiment: get a supermarket chicken (with added 'solution',
>> > hormones and antibiotics etc) [...]
>>
>> The use of hormones in poultry production has been illegal in the USA for
>> about 50 years now.
>
> Illegal doesn't mean they are not used.

You may be right, but hopefully not, as that is not only the law, but many
producers *advertise* that they don't use hormones, so not only would they
be violating food safety laws, they'd be violating federal and state
truth-in-advertising law as well.

> Most major commercial breeders (Tyson, Perdue) don't
>> use antibiotics, either.
>
> They have cut down; don't know if they have eliminated them.

Either way it's legal, but again, they can't advertise they don't use them
when they in fact do. Not to say that the law can't be ignored.

I'd be very interested to see any data that support the assertion you make;
I'd think any concerned group could easily afford to have tests done on a
random sampling of chicken bought at retail.

> Antibiotics are still added to feeds and and some feeds contain things
> such as ground up chicken feathers etc.

Some, perhaps. Presumably, when the producers advertise "vegetable
grain-fed" and "no animal proteins are fed to our chickens," they mean just
that. They'd better, anyway. AIUI, chickens aren't supposed to be fed
feather meal, but are fed meat and bone meal. Cattle can be fed feather
meal, as well as poultry *litter* (blech).

The brand I mentioned previously, MBA Smart Chicken, says they not only
don't use antibiotics or hormones, but no animal protein either.

Jason

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
> Jason Quick wrote:
>>
>> "Arri London" > wrote in message
>> > Donna wrote:
>> >>
>> > Easy experiment: get a supermarket chicken (with added 'solution',
>> > hormones and antibiotics etc) [...]
>>
>> The use of hormones in poultry production has been illegal in the USA for
>> about 50 years now.
>
> Illegal doesn't mean they are not used.

You may be right, but hopefully not, as that is not only the law, but many
producers *advertise* that they don't use hormones, so not only would they
be violating food safety laws, they'd be violating federal and state
truth-in-advertising law as well.

> Most major commercial breeders (Tyson, Perdue) don't
>> use antibiotics, either.
>
> They have cut down; don't know if they have eliminated them.

Either way it's legal, but again, they can't advertise they don't use them
when they in fact do. Not to say that the law can't be ignored.

I'd be very interested to see any data that support the assertion you make;
I'd think any concerned group could easily afford to have tests done on a
random sampling of chicken bought at retail.

> Antibiotics are still added to feeds and and some feeds contain things
> such as ground up chicken feathers etc.

Some, perhaps. Presumably, when the producers advertise "vegetable
grain-fed" and "no animal proteins are fed to our chickens," they mean just
that. They'd better, anyway. AIUI, chickens aren't supposed to be fed
feather meal, but are fed meat and bone meal. Cattle can be fed feather
meal, as well as poultry *litter* (blech).

The brand I mentioned previously, MBA Smart Chicken, says they not only
don't use antibiotics or hormones, but no animal protein either.

Jason

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 13:13:41 -0800, JimLane
> wrote:

> sf wrote:
> > On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:07:53 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Man, and I've been on the hunt for good fatty pork, can't find a local farm
> >> that raises and sells pork.
> >
> >
> > I don't think you'll find it these days unless you find an
> > "heirloom" pig.
> >
> > sf
>
> I think a search on this group would bring back a previous thread on
> this. There are farmers who do raise better pork than the standard
> suffermarkets carry.
>
> Neiman Ranch (in TJs?) comes to mind as being a definite step above.
>
Neiman Ranch is not a boutique producer, although it's
packaged to look like one.

> A custom or high level butcher shop may also have a source of better
> pork to select from. In San Diego, we have Ohio Meat Farms and its
> sister store (can't recall the name - Seidel's?) and Tip Top Meats in
> North County that carry far better pork.
>
Your area has some very good small butchers who get their
meat from small/family farmers. It's a good thing.
>
> However, the leaner pork does not taste nearly as good as the day-to-day
> stuff that was around before they began cross breeding for leanness.
>
I like the way pork tastes now - I hated those big globs of
fat that were permeated in the old type and I thought all
that fat over powered the meaty flavor.

sf

Jason Quick wrote:

> >> The use of hormones/antibiotics

I was surprised/shocked to learn a few years ago from a organic chicken
producer here in Canada that they can use antibiotics or whatever the
other people use, but the chickens must not have any residue in their
system x number of days before market. I believe it is the same for
crops, too. It is not that they don't use stuff, it is just a different
process. I mean nobody his going to spend lots of money on hormones and
antibiotics unless they have to and they all have to do it the same way
except there is a grace period before sending the organic ones to market
and the organic ones are way more expensive but not without some form of
legal drugs or chemicals.

Well, if you raised your child in a cage and fed it the same thing
everyday and gave it no exercise, would it turn out the same as a child
that had a fantastic diet, played sports, got lots of exercise and got a
good education?

In fact, it may be legal to raise two pets, one in a cage and one that
is not caged and see how they look after 6 months or whatever length of
time it is before they kill the chicken.

For most of us it is a tough question, eat possibly bse beef (not a
chance while I am being lied to about how safe beef is) or caged
birds? I have tried to live on dried beans, rice, corn and veggies and
I just can't seem to do it. Maybe some day. Tried tofu and it doesn't
keep all that well in the fridge and is a great protein enhancer but
very poor substitute.

Jason Quick wrote:

> >> The use of hormones/antibiotics

I was surprised/shocked to learn a few years ago from a organic chicken
producer here in Canada that they can use antibiotics or whatever the
other people use, but the chickens must not have any residue in their
system x number of days before market. I believe it is the same for
crops, too. It is not that they don't use stuff, it is just a different
process. I mean nobody his going to spend lots of money on hormones and
antibiotics unless they have to and they all have to do it the same way
except there is a grace period before sending the organic ones to market
and the organic ones are way more expensive but not without some form of
legal drugs or chemicals.

Well, if you raised your child in a cage and fed it the same thing
everyday and gave it no exercise, would it turn out the same as a child
that had a fantastic diet, played sports, got lots of exercise and got a
good education?

In fact, it may be legal to raise two pets, one in a cage and one that
is not caged and see how they look after 6 months or whatever length of
time it is before they kill the chicken.

For most of us it is a tough question, eat possibly bse beef (not a
chance while I am being lied to about how safe beef is) or caged
birds? I have tried to live on dried beans, rice, corn and veggies and
I just can't seem to do it. Maybe some day. Tried tofu and it doesn't
keep all that well in the fridge and is a great protein enhancer but
very poor substitute.