Ever since I saw a food service employee drop a rack of in flight dinners
on the tarmac at Kingston airport in Jamaica and a greasy mechanic shovel
the refuse back into same cart, I have been reluctant to eat on airlines.
The dinner rolls bounced about like ping pong balls.This was Err Canada by
the way, truly one of the world's worst airlines. Many travellers agree that
Singapore Airlines and Japan Air have some of the best in flight catering
but I am still very cautious. Today, I am more interested in getting my ass
from point A to point B for a good price and minimal amount of hassle. There
are airlines in this world where in flight service consists of a bag of
peanuts dispensed by the pilot after he had finished takeoff.
My advise, Bring a sandwich.

F.J.

In article . net>,
"Gregory Morrow" >
wrote:

> What is it with US airlines and their elderly and rude stews?

Union rules -- flight attendants ("stews" is so 60s...) are losing
their jobs just like other airline employees. But union rules cause
the junior FAs to be laid off first. So who's left?

As for the "rude" part, I hear ya. But, in their defense, most
airlines are running the minimum FAA-required crew these days. That
can mean a FA has 70-80-90 people to serve (in coach). And it doesn't
help that some airlines have a long history of kicking their employees
in the butt every chance they get -- while executive management
remains curiously unaffected. Who feels like smiling when your
employer is making your life more difficult by the day? And it's not
like every passenger is a model customer, either.

> Delta and
> Northwest are the very worst offenders that I've seen. And whatever
> happened to the concept of height - weight correlation?

That would be federal regulations regarding discrimination and
disability. Can't fire 'em for getting married or pregnant anymore,
either.

> I've seen plenty of
> fat stews - who on earth wants to look at a fat stew? Fat people are tiring
> enough to look out, but to be working for an airline? These gals make flyig
> on US carriers a distinctly dreary experience.

I take it you haven't encountered any _male_ FAs yet. :-)

Most fliers in this country decided long ago that they'd rather have
it cheap than good. They got their wish....

Ob-Food: Best meal I ever had on an airplane was on Alitalia -- just a
snack, really, but simple, quality ingredients served with a smile and
a minimum of plastic. Nowadays I'd just as soon bring my own food on
board.

sd

"sd" > wrote in message
>
> . Who feels like smiling when your
> employer is making your life more difficult by the day?

Is this like indentured servitude where you can't quit and find another
career?

"sd" > wrote in message
>
> . Who feels like smiling when your
> employer is making your life more difficult by the day?

Is this like indentured servitude where you can't quit and find another
career?

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "sd" > wrote in message
>>
>> . Who feels like smiling when your
>> employer is making your life more difficult by the day?
>
> Is this like indentured servitude where you can't quit and find
> another career?

That is pretty much on the mark in today's job market.
Promised the moon by your employer (but just gettting the shaft), sucked
into huge debt by a constant blitz of marketing, young family, second
morgage to pay for a POS car (not to mention the fuel).
Stress from the job driving your (uninsured) medical bills through the
roof.
The choice? - Grin and bear it or pack up the kids, steal a shopping cart
and go live under a bridge!
That doesn't describe me but it does describe a huge segment of the North
American population.

Regards.
Ken.
--

http://www.rupert.net/~solar
Return address supplied by 'spammotel'
http://www.spammotel.com

"Ken Davey" > wrote in message
...

>
> That is pretty much on the mark in today's job market.
> Promised the moon by your employer (but just gettting the shaft), sucked
> into huge debt by a constant blitz of marketing, young family, second
> morgage to pay for a POS car (not to mention the fuel).
> Stress from the job driving your (uninsured) medical bills through the
> roof.
> The choice? - Grin and bear it or pack up the kids, steal a shopping cart
> and go live under a bridge!
> That doesn't describe me but it does describe a huge segment of the North
> American population.

I don't completely agree. There are pages of ads in the employment section
of the paper today. I'm qualified for some, but not for others. I'd get
the training to get the job I wanted. Some people would rather complain
that make a plan to change things. I'm sure there may be some exceptions,
but then you just need a longer range plan to make a change.

I'm an exception. I like my job, my employer, and I'm actually looking
forward to going to work tomorrow.

"Ken Davey" > wrote in message
...

>
> That is pretty much on the mark in today's job market.
> Promised the moon by your employer (but just gettting the shaft), sucked
> into huge debt by a constant blitz of marketing, young family, second
> morgage to pay for a POS car (not to mention the fuel).
> Stress from the job driving your (uninsured) medical bills through the
> roof.
> The choice? - Grin and bear it or pack up the kids, steal a shopping cart
> and go live under a bridge!
> That doesn't describe me but it does describe a huge segment of the North
> American population.

I don't completely agree. There are pages of ads in the employment section
of the paper today. I'm qualified for some, but not for others. I'd get
the training to get the job I wanted. Some people would rather complain
that make a plan to change things. I'm sure there may be some exceptions,
but then you just need a longer range plan to make a change.

I'm an exception. I like my job, my employer, and I'm actually looking
forward to going to work tomorrow.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> I'm an exception. I like my job, my employer, and I'm
> actually looking forward to going to work tomorrow.

I also enjoy my job and look forward to going to work. I'm just hoping my
(airline) employer will still be around so I can continue to enjoy going to
work.

--
Pete Romfh, Telecom Geek & Amateur Gourmet.
promfh at hal dash pc dot org

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> I'm an exception. I like my job, my employer, and I'm
> actually looking forward to going to work tomorrow.

I also enjoy my job and look forward to going to work. I'm just hoping my
(airline) employer will still be around so I can continue to enjoy going to
work.

--
Pete Romfh, Telecom Geek & Amateur Gourmet.
promfh at hal dash pc dot org

In article >,
"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:

> "sd" > wrote in message
> >
> > . Who feels like smiling when your
> > employer is making your life more difficult by the day?
>
> Is this like indentured servitude where you can't quit and find another
> career?

Sort of. If you've spent 10-20 years or longer training for and
performing a fairly specific job (one that calls for annual
re-certification, IIRC), you're probably not dying to blow that
seniority and pay and benefits starting over someplace else. Besides,
it's not like there are that many other healthy airlines one could
move to.

In addition, in this job market, many employers have become "spoiled."
There are enough people with all kinds of qualifications looking for
(better) work that employers can impose some ridiculously-specific
requirements for any job posting -- and likely get just what they
asked for. Leaves a lot of good people out in the cold.

sd

In article >, "Edwin
Pawlowski" > wrote:

> "sd" > wrote in message
> >
> > . Who feels like smiling when your employer is making your life
> > more difficult by the day?
>
> Is this like indentured servitude where you can't quit and find another
> career?

Not indentured servitude, Ed, but people stay in jobs where they're not
well treated for a variety of reasons. Flight attendants (and pilots)
often have schedules that let them work a specific schedule that works
for their family for a decent salary. And then there's all that stuff
about benefits and tenure before things changed radically. Sure, tell
them to quit bitching about then, but who likes to be treated badly?
JMO.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and
say,'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner,
performance at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.

"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
>
> Not indentured servitude, Ed, but people stay in jobs where they're not
> well treated for a variety of reasons. Flight attendants (and pilots)
> often have schedules that let them work a specific schedule that works
> for their family for a decent salary. And then there's all that stuff
> about benefits and tenure before things changed radically. Sure, tell
> them to quit bitching about then, but who likes to be treated badly?
> JMO.

No one want to be treated badly, but if enough of them just up and leave,
management will soon find out just how important good relations are. I
just don't buy the "they treat us like crap but I stay anyway" line. The
good list must outweigh the bad list if they are willing to stay. .

In our company we had a problem with people leaving one department. After a
few complaints and seeing that people did in fact leave, the supervisor was
(reprimanded, given some people skills training and finally) replaced. The
people that left were low skilled, made an OK, but not great wage, but
refused to be treated like crap. We were able to get a couple of them back
but others found better opportunities so good for them.

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 03:52:54 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
> wrote:

> No one want to be treated badly, but if enough of them just up and leave,
> management will soon find out just how important good relations are. I
> just don't buy the "they treat us like crap but I stay anyway" line. The
> good list must outweigh the bad list if they are willing to stay. .
>
> In our company we had a problem with people leaving one department. After a
> few complaints and seeing that people did in fact leave, the supervisor was
> (reprimanded, given some people skills training and finally) replaced. The
> people that left were low skilled, made an OK, but not great wage, but
> refused to be treated like crap. We were able to get a couple of them back
> but others found better opportunities so good for them.
>

Think carefully. Do you remember when Regan fired all of
the air flight controllers who went on strike?

IOW: Management doesn't care, because there are plenty more
where they came from. The attitude toward flight attendants
is to let them quit, that way they can hire 2 for the price
of one. For the Airlines it's just like getting a divorce:
turn in a 40 and get two 20's.


sf

"sf" > wrote in message
> Think carefully. Do you remember when Regan fired all of
> the air flight controllers who went on strike?
>
> IOW: Management doesn't care, because there are plenty more
> where they came from. The attitude toward flight attendants
> is to let them quit, that way they can hire 2 for the price
> of one. For the Airlines it's just like getting a divorce:
> turn in a 40 and get two 20's.
>
>
> sf

SOME management does not care. If you want to work for them that's OK with
me. In the case of the controllers, a big lesson is to be learned by both
sides. The first being they found it is not so easy to get two for the
price of one.

"sd" > wrote in message
...
> In article . net>,
> "Gregory Morrow" >
> wrote:
>
>> What is it with US airlines and their elderly and rude stews?
>
> Union rules -- flight attendants ("stews" is so 60s...) are losing
> their jobs just like other airline employees. But union rules cause
> the junior FAs to be laid off first. So who's left?

Yep, I believe in calling a spade a spade. So then it's "waitress on an
airplane".

>No one want to be treated badly, but if enough of them just up and leave,
>management will soon find out just how important good relations are.

I spoke to one attendant who worked transAtlantic flights, who told me the pay
was not that great but that the airline put them up in five-star hotels on the
Continent, which they appreciated. I wanted to say, where was the union, to
negotiate a 200% pay increase in exchange for two-star hotels, doubling in the
room?

If flight attendants can't manage their assets better than that . . .

Neil

On 04 Feb 2005 11:43:43 GMT, (WardNA) wrote:

>>No one want to be treated badly, but if enough of them just up and leave,
>>management will soon find out just how important good relations are.
>
>I spoke to one attendant who worked transAtlantic flights, who told me the pay
>was not that great but that the airline put them up in five-star hotels on the
>Continent, which they appreciated. I wanted to say, where was the union, to
>negotiate a 200% pay increase in exchange for two-star hotels, doubling in the
>room?

Currently, under severe price pressure. Airline wages are not rising.
It's a mature industry with overseas competition, and internal
competition for cheap seats. And I'm sure that the airline has
negotiated a volume disount with the hotel chain (they ain't payin'
retail!), so it's not as high end as it appears.

TB
Toronto, Ontario,
who knows a few former flight attendants who have taken their
linguistic skills (most in this country are bilingual) on to other
careers.

>
>I spoke to one attendant who worked transAtlantic flights, who told me the
>pay
>was not that great but that the airline put them up in five-star hotels on
>the
>Continent, which they appreciated. I wanted to say, where was the union, to
>negotiate a 200% pay increase in exchange for two-star hotels, doubling in
>the
>room?
>
>If flight attendants can't manage their assets better than that . . .
>
>Neil

The rates that airlines and big corporations get are much lower than the
advertised prices. The crew stays in a good place, the hotels fill sometimes
empty rooms and they have garanteed returns.
Rosie

> wrote:

> On 04 Feb 2005 11:43:43 GMT, (WardNA) wrote:
>
> >>No one want to be treated badly, but if enough of them just up and
leave,
> >>management will soon find out just how important good relations are.
> >
> >I spoke to one attendant who worked transAtlantic flights, who told me
the pay
> >was not that great but that the airline put them up in five-star hotels
on the
> >Continent, which they appreciated. I wanted to say, where was the union,
to
> >negotiate a 200% pay increase in exchange for two-star hotels, doubling
in the
> >room?
>
> Currently, under severe price pressure. Airline wages are not rising.
> It's a mature industry with overseas competition, and internal
> competition for cheap seats.


A friend works as a FA for United. Before all the "troubles" began he was
making about 45+K. Then this went down to 29.5K. Now they have another 10%
pay cut. Plus which their pensions plan is on shaky ground, etc., etc.

Heck, they even have to pay a lot more for flying leisure somewhere standby
on United (flying on Southwest is cheaper for them actually), which was once
one of the nice perks of being employed by an airline (IIRC formerly they
only paid tax and a small fee).

It's pretty disheartening after 17 years on the job (and this was a job he
aspired to because of benefits and security). He is of course looking for
new employment.

I know a US Air pilot and a United pilot who were both laid off...both in
their late 40's, they are going to nursing school. Hey at least it's
steady employment.


And I'm sure that the airline has
> negotiated a volume disount with the hotel chain (they ain't payin'
> retail!), so it's not as high end as it appears.


As one who used to work at several high - end hotel properties (years ago
I'll admit) flight crews get the biggest discounts of anyone, negotiatied by
the airline. It was something like 20% of rack rate...

My friend often flies to Japan, London, Frankfurt, etc. Prices in those
cities are very high, so they really have to watch their pennies on
layovers, their per diem is not that lavish. It's not like they are dining
at fine restaurants, guzzling champagne, and living la dolce vita. More
likely they are eating a soggy sandwich in their room purchased at the local
7 - 11 or from a vending machine and then watching a movie they brought from
home (South America is a little cheaper, they can splurge for a hamburger in
Buenos Aires or get a $2.00 bottle of wine in Santiago...).

The airline bizness is simply not the interesting and exciting place to
aspire to a career nowadays...

--
Best
Greg

"Gregory Morrow"
<gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net>

> The airline bizness is simply not the interesting and exciting place to
> aspire to a career nowadays...

Oh, I don't know, I see that show, Airline ... looks like a ton of fun.

nancy

WardNA wrote:

> I spoke to one attendant who worked transAtlantic flights, who told me the pay
> was not that great but that the airline put them up in five-star hotels on the
> Continent, which they appreciated. I wanted to say, where was the union, to
> negotiate a 200% pay increase in exchange for two-star hotels, doubling in the
> room?

The airlines have contracts with hotels for those special rates, but they are not
always 5 star hotels. My son worked in a hotel in Montreal that had a contract
with an American airline and was able to get me the special rate, which was about
50% of the regular price. It was a decent hotel. It had a small pool and work out
room and had a restaurant attached, but it sure wasn't one of the fancy 5 star
hotels.

Nancy Young wrote:

> "Gregory Morrow"
> <gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net>
>
> > The airline bizness is simply not the interesting and exciting place to
> > aspire to a career nowadays...
>
> Oh, I don't know, I see that show, Airline ... looks like a ton of fun.
>

I have to think that *some* of that stuff is staged...primarily some of the
scenes with passengers that are verbally abusing the airline staff. With
the present security concerns *no* one is going to get away with creating a
big ruckus in an airport, in a best - case scenario they will be denied
boarding and in the worst - case it's off to the hoosegow...

I've known folx who have used profanity at the check - in counter (the
incidents were with Southwest in St. Louis and Northwest in Minneapolis,
this was pre - 911). Their reservations were promptly cancelled and they
were told they would not be flying with those particular airlines that
day...

Bullying airline staff is just about the dumbest thing someone can do these
days, and it's a fairly sure bet that the offender will pay the
consequences...

--
Best
Greg

Dog3 wrote:

> "Nancy Young" > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > "Gregory Morrow"
> > <gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net>
> >
> >> The airline bizness is simply not the interesting and exciting place to
> >> aspire to a career nowadays...
> >
> > Oh, I don't know, I see that show, Airline ... looks like a ton of fun.
> >
> > nancy
>
> I watch it also. Did you see the episode with the man that had such bad
> body odor no one wanted him on the plane? It was hysterical.
>

Or the drunks. Do they really let these people on da plane...???

The UK version of _Airport_ (can be seen sometimes on A&E or the
Wings/Military cable channels) is a lot more entertaining even while having
a more serious tone. They go behind the scenes at London's Heathrow Airport
(and others in Europe), dealing with medical emergencies, animal quarantine,
customs/immigration scenarios, etc...

They feature different airlines, which is nice (the US version only features
Southwest).

One episode had the planning Icelandic Airlines went through in order to
prepare for a state visit of the Icelandic president to the UK. They showed
the whole deal, from the President en - planing in Reykyavik, in flight,
de - planing in London...and yeah, the Icelandic prez flies business class
in a 757 with no huge entourage, just a few aides. Those democratic
Icelanders!

[The Australian Premier books the entire First Class cabin of a Qantas 747
when he travels, he has a larger entourage and more security. They had that
on the show, too...]

Another episode showed a Czech Airlines stewardess on a Prague - London
flight. On this particular flight she was undergoing her yearly performance
evaluation, scored by a senior flight attendant. What do you do in case
there is a suspected fire in the lavatory?* What if you have a passenger
who speaks an unfamiliar language? Etc.. She got a 98, so she passed.

They show quite a lot of the animal handling facilities at Heathrow. Lots
of tropical animals (lizards, birds, etc.) don't survive their journeys.
They once had a bunch of bats that got loose - it was pretty funny watching
the guys try to catch them!

Once the police arrested a British Airways flight attendant when his flight
landed. He had phony ID's, and in fact a whole bogus identity. Turns out
he was from Lebanon, had "escaped" to UK because he was treated badly by his
family because he was ***...he had somehow finagled a job with BA as a
flight attendant. *He* had no bad intentions but it's really something to
think about in these days of heightened security concerns.

Catch the show if you can, it's pretty entertaining. Far superior to the US
version...

[* You feel the door to see if it is hot. If so, you get the fire axe and
break the door down if necessary...have the fire extinguisher at the ready!]

--
Best
Greg

"Gregory Morrow"
<gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net> wrote in
message news:lNOMd.471

> Nancy Young wrote:

> "Gregory Morrow"
>> > The airline bizness is simply not the interesting and exciting place to
>> > aspire to a career nowadays...
>>
>> Oh, I don't know, I see that show, Airline ... looks like a ton of fun.

> I have to think that *some* of that stuff is staged...primarily some of
> the
> scenes with passengers that are verbally abusing the airline staff. With
> the present security concerns *no* one is going to get away with creating
> a
> big ruckus in an airport, in a best - case scenario they will be denied
> boarding and in the worst - case it's off to the hoosegow...

My motto has always been, shut up, pour yourself onto the plane and
be quiet. (laugh) When they open the door, get the hell out of there.

Apparently you should avoid staggering and slurred speech, plus
screaming at the staff. Also, is Southwest owned by some religious
organization or what? For some reason they seem awfully strict
about the drinking thing to me.

> I've known folx who have used profanity at the check - in counter (the
> incidents were with Southwest in St. Louis and Northwest in Minneapolis,
> this was pre - 911). Their reservations were promptly cancelled and they
> were told they would not be flying with those particular airlines that
> day...

The staff shouldn't have to take that kind of abuse, this is true.

> Bullying airline staff is just about the dumbest thing someone can do
> these
> days, and it's a fairly sure bet that the offender will pay the
> consequences...

Gawd, I would have to take my Alz fil and herd him onto a plane. I did
adore him, but 'I have a bomb' would be something he just might joke
about. I was even afraid to warn him because it might put an idea in his
head. That's a good way to land in jail.

nancy

"Dog3" > wrote in message
...
> "Nancy Young" > wrote in

>> Oh, I don't know, I see that show, Airline ... looks like a ton of fun.

> I watch it also. Did you see the episode with the man that had such bad
> body odor no one wanted him on the plane? It was hysterical.

Oh geez, I was dying for him. He took it well. They even had to give
him clean clothing. I'd pay to know where the heck he was as he
apparently hadn't taken a shower in quite some time. Like ... when
people on line around you start complaining, you must STINK.

Anyway, I was goofing about it being fun having to deal with all those
travelers, but it's hard to believe in a way that they act that way with
a camera shoved in their face. Then, maybe not.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote:

> "Gregory Morrow"
> <gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net> wrote in
> message news:lNOMd.471
>
> > Nancy Young wrote:
>
> > "Gregory Morrow"
> >> > The airline bizness is simply not the interesting and exciting place
to
> >> > aspire to a career nowadays...
> >>
> >> Oh, I don't know, I see that show, Airline ... looks like a ton of fun.
>
> > I have to think that *some* of that stuff is staged...primarily some of
> > the
> > scenes with passengers that are verbally abusing the airline staff.
With
> > the present security concerns *no* one is going to get away with
creating
> > a
> > big ruckus in an airport, in a best - case scenario they will be denied
> > boarding and in the worst - case it's off to the hoosegow...
>
> My motto has always been, shut up, pour yourself onto the plane and
> be quiet. (laugh) When they open the door, get the hell out of there.
>


Me too...flying is such a drag these days that I just want it to be over
with ASAP...


> Apparently you should avoid staggering and slurred speech, plus
> screaming at the staff. Also, is Southwest owned by some religious
> organization or what? For some reason they seem awfully strict
> about the drinking thing to me.


It's an industry - wide rule. Airlines can refuse boarding to anyone who
appears intoxicated.


> > I've known folx who have used profanity at the check - in counter (the
> > incidents were with Southwest in St. Louis and Northwest in Minneapolis,
> > this was pre - 911). Their reservations were promptly cancelled and
they
> > were told they would not be flying with those particular airlines that
> > day...
>
> The staff shouldn't have to take that kind of abuse, this is true.
>


One airline (British Airways?) a whiles back designed a "warning" card that
could be handed to unruly customers. It said something like "You are
interfering with the duties of our airline personnel. If you persit these
are the penalties you may incur...". This is a good idea and tends to make
the miscreants think a bit about their actions (although IIRC the main
purpose of this was for pax who had to much to drink inflight...).


> > Bullying airline staff is just about the dumbest thing someone can do
> > these
> > days, and it's a fairly sure bet that the offender will pay the
> > consequences...
>
> Gawd, I would have to take my Alz fil and herd him onto a plane. I did
> adore him, but 'I have a bomb' would be something he just might joke
> about. I was even afraid to warn him because it might put an idea in his
> head. That's a good way to land in jail.


Yep, it's an automatic "Go To Jail" card...

It still amazes me that thousands of weapons/restricted items per *month*
are confiscated from people going through security. These include box
cutters, guns, swords, you name it...

Go figger :-|

--
Best
Greg

In article >,
"Gregory Morrow"
<gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net> wrote:

> With the present security concerns *no* one is going to get
> away with creating a big ruckus in an airport, in a best - case
> scenario they will be denied boarding and in the worst - case it's
> off to the hoosegow...

> I've known folx who have used profanity at the check - in counter
> (the incidents were with Southwest in St. Louis and Northwest in
> Minneapolis, this was pre - 911). Their reservations were promptly
> cancelled and they were told they would not be flying with those
> particular airlines that day...

LOL! And NWA controls something like 95% of the gates at Lindbergh
Terminal. That'll learn 'em.

> Bullying airline staff is just about the dumbest thing someone can do
> these days, and it's a fairly sure bet that the offender will pay the
> consequences...

And a jar of jam has gotten me an upgrade to First Class from a gate
agent. :-) Flies, honey, vinegar -- that stuff. I am shameless and
transparent.
--
-Barb
<www.jamlady.eboard.com>; Tater Tot Hotdish and Jam Class pics added 2-2-05
"I got the motive, which is money; and the body, which is dead!" - Rod
Steiger as Sheriff Gillespie, "In the Heat of the Night," 1967.

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> In article >,
> "Gregory Morrow"
> <gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net> wrote:
>
> > With the present security concerns *no* one is going to get
> > away with creating a big ruckus in an airport, in a best - case
> > scenario they will be denied boarding and in the worst - case it's
> > off to the hoosegow...
>
> > I've known folx who have used profanity at the check - in counter
> > (the incidents were with Southwest in St. Louis and Northwest in
> > Minneapolis, this was pre - 911). Their reservations were promptly
> > cancelled and they were told they would not be flying with those
> > particular airlines that day...
>
> LOL! And NWA controls something like 95% of the gates at Lindbergh
> Terminal. That'll learn 'em.


Yeah, they had to rent a car for the rest of the journey to Chicago...they
were crybabying down all the way, heehee...served 'em right I say.


> > Bullying airline staff is just about the dumbest thing someone can do
> > these days, and it's a fairly sure bet that the offender will pay the
> > consequences...
>
> And a jar of jam has gotten me an upgrade to First Class from a gate
> agent. :-) Flies, honey, vinegar -- that stuff. I am shameless and
> transparent.


Just being nice to beleagured customer service personnel can work wonders.
It's basic good sense, not rocket science...amazing how few folx realize
this.

--
Best
Greg

Dog3 wrote:

> "Gregory Morrow"
> <gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net> wrote in
> . net:
>
> >
> > Nancy Young wrote:
>
> <snip for space>
>
> >> Nancy
> >> My motto has always been, shut up, pour yourself onto the plane and
> >> be quiet. (laugh) When they open the door, get the hell out of
> >> there.
> >>
> >>
>
> Greg Morrow wrote
> > Me too...flying is such a drag these days that I just want it to be
> > over with ASAP...
>
> My last trip to the brunch in November was a real drag. I had layovers and
> barely 5 minutes between flights to and from NYC. UGH... and getting
> through security. The lines are long, one takes off the shoes and puts
them
> on the belt to scan. ANY questionable item in your carry on luggage
> results in a complete search. I know this is for our safety but it is a
> drag anyway. If they are going to search my belongings, I feel entitled to
> a strip search <evil grin>


Apparently they have these new scanners that can see right through yer
clothes. Don't know when they'll come "online"...they are very costly.

The shoe thing is so stupid. Some airports enforce it, others don't...


> Nancy:
> >> Apparently you should avoid staggering and slurred speech, plus
> >> screaming at the staff. Also, is Southwest owned by some religious
> >> organization or what? For some reason they seem awfully strict
> >> about the drinking thing to me.
>
> I don't think that is true for all airlines but I may be wrong. I have not
> flown much lately. As said before by Greg, I think a lot of the scenes on
> the TV show are staged.
>
>
> Greg:
> > It's an industry - wide rule. Airlines can refuse boarding to anyone
> > who appears intoxicated.
>
> I wonder how many airlines really enforce that rule?


It's a case - by - case basis. Basically it waters down to whether you are
a good drunk or a bad drunk I think 8-)



> <scissored>
>
> > Greg:
> > One airline (British Airways?) a whiles back designed a "warning" card
> > that could be handed to unruly customers. It said something like "You
> > are interfering with the duties of our airline personnel. If you
> > persit these are the penalties you may incur...". This is a good
> > idea and tends to make the miscreants think a bit about their actions
> > (although IIRC the main purpose of this was for pax who had to much to
> > drink inflight...).
>
> They are given a warning which is good. If they persist in unruly
> behavior, they get what they deserve.
>
> >> Nancy:
> >> Gawd, I would have to take my Alz fil and herd him onto a plane. I
> >> did adore him, but 'I have a bomb' would be something he just might
> >> joke about. I was even afraid to warn him because it might put an
> >> idea in his head. That's a good way to land in jail.
> >
> > Greg:
> > Yep, it's an automatic "Go To Jail" card...
>
> You can bet the passenger mentioning 'bomb', even as a joke, will be
> detained and most likely charged.
>
>
> >
> > It still amazes me that thousands of weapons/restricted items per
> > *month* are confiscated from people going through security. These
> > include box cutters, guns, swords, you name it...
> >
> > Go figger :-|
>
> Some of those items are probably gifts going to other people or items
> purchased for the passenger and coming home. Anyone know the laws on
> mailing guns, swords and other weapon type items?


AFAIK you can check most of this stuff with the airline in checked baggage,
it must be carried in the hold. Guns must be somewhat dis - assembled, no
live ammunition. Natcherly no bombs, flammables, or atomic materials...

I can see maybe forgetting about a little pocket knife but every few weeks
or so they catch people out at O'Hare going through security with loaded
guns, box cutters, etc. They are invariably drunk/belligerent, usually
foreigners (interestingly either Asian or Mexican). One common "excuse" is
"But I have DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY!" (yeah, so did James Brown lol...).

And you'd be shocked at just how much of this stuff can get through,
too...the TSA does tests all the time sneeking stuff through and the results
are hardly encouraging.

--
Best
Greg

In article >,
"Gregory Morrow"
<gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net> wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> > > I've known folx who have used profanity at the check - in counter
> > > (the incidents were with Southwest in St. Louis and Northwest in
> > > Minneapolis, this was pre - 911). Their reservations were promptly
> > > cancelled and they were told they would not be flying with those
> > > particular airlines that day...
> >
> > LOL! And NWA controls something like 95% of the gates at Lindbergh
> > Terminal. That'll learn 'em.

> Yeah, they had to rent a car for the rest of the journey to Chicago...they
> were crybabying down all the way, heehee...served 'em right I say.

> Just being nice to beleagured customer service personnel can work wonders.
> It's basic good sense, not rocket science...amazing how few folx realize
> this.

OK, Gregory -- I've seen it twice from you and I just gotta let you know
I noticed -- folx? How precious! "-)
--
-Barb
<www.jamlady.eboard.com>; Tater Tot Hotdish and Jam Class pics added 2-2-05
"I got the motive, which is money; and the body, which is dead!" - Rod
Steiger as Sheriff Gillespie, "In the Heat of the Night," 1967.

Dog3 wrote:

>>Oh, I don't know, I see that show, Airline ... looks like a ton of fun.
>>
>>nancy
>
>
> I watch it also. Did you see the episode with the man that had such bad
> body odor no one wanted him on the plane? It was hysterical.
>
> Michael

It often reminds me of a hospital. Honest. You'd
be shocked by what some families and patients try
to do... and yeah, at times staff too. <sigh>
Goomba

Greg wrote:

> It still amazes me that thousands of weapons/restricted items per *month*
> are confiscated from people going through security. These include box
> cutters, guns, swords, you name it...

It amazes ME how inane some of those restrictions are. Nail clippers? Who's
going to hijack a plane with nail clippers?

I'm also surprised at some items which get through security: A friend of
mine routinely carries her stun gun onto planes and she's never even been
asked about it. And what about canes? Can't THEY be used as weapons? So why
are they allowed?

I also find it a bit dismaying how STUPID some of the security personnel
are. Here's an example: It's an elementary precaution not to put valuables
onto the conveyor belt unless you KNOW that you're going to be the next
person through the metal detector. There was a couple ahead of me who kept
setting off the metal detector. They weren't allowed to proceed, and the
line was halted. Yet the security boob working the conveyor belt tried to
browbeat me into putting my $4000 laptop (in those days) onto the conveyor
belt. I kept telling him that I wasn't going to put it onto the belt until
the couple ahead of me was all the way through, but he plainly couldn't
understand why I was refusing to eagerly comply with his instructions.

Bob

Fudge wrote:
>
> My advise, Bring a sandwich.

For a long flight I advise bringing stick to the ribs chow; an
assortment of k'nishes, a tall stack of sliced kosher salami, a zip-loc
filled with kosher dills, and a flask of vodka. For a short flight
carry a sardine on buttered pumpernickle sandwich w/raw onion, and the
vodka of course... and 3-4 hard cooked eggs are always a good snack.
With these viands you'll also notice it won't be too very long before
you have a lot more room to stretch out.

Sheldon

"Dog3" > wrote in message
>
> ANY questionable item in your carry on luggage
> results in a complete search. I know this is for our safety but it is a
> drag anyway. If they are going to search my belongings, I feel entitled to
> a strip search <evil grin>
>


Oh, you don't want that. You don't even have to have questionable items.
Just be the 20th or 32nd or whatever passenger and you are eligible for the
full treatment. It is even more fun when the inspector tells you that they
are being watched at the time so no short cuts.

My wife was "chosen" and we were about 20 minutes at security. They did
offer to have a female do the pat down though.

Michael wrote:

> Just a guess but he looked homeless to me. Someone most likely (family
> member maybe) purchased him a ticket to go home on.

Er...I know this is a silly question, but if a person is HOMELESS, what kind
of airline ticket will get them HOME?

Bob

"Dog3" > wrote in message
>>
>> My wife was "chosen" and we were about 20 minutes at security. They
>> did offer to have a female do the pat down though.
>
> Did you miss your flight? I was really worried during my 2 layovers. I had
> a very short time to get from gate to gate. I wonder what happens if you
> miss your flight while having your luggage inspected etc. and they find
> nothing out of the ordinary?
>
> Michael

We had plenty of time but I'd not want to do this on a tight schedule.
Layover is not usually a problem because you stay on the already searched
side of security. Given the extra time you must allow, short flights are
often faster to just drive. I can drive from NE CT to NYC in less time than
I can fly when you factor in all the security.

Dog3 wrote:

> I was flying from St. Louis to NYC for Margaret's brunch. I make the (when
> I'm not sick) trip 4-5 times a year to visit my son who is in school in
> NYC. Usually I fly non stop but I could not find a reasonable ticket price
> for non stop flights in November. It was either $1500 round trip for non
> stop or well under $1000 round trip with 1 layover both ways.

OUCH!! Are you buying your ticket in advance? Or
are you flying first class?
Don't forget to price Delta now too, since they've
dropped the price of their last min. tickets.
Goomba

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> In article >,
> "Gregory Morrow"
> <gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> > > > I've known folx who have used profanity at the check - in counter
> > > > (the incidents were with Southwest in St. Louis and Northwest in
> > > > Minneapolis, this was pre - 911). Their reservations were promptly
> > > > cancelled and they were told they would not be flying with those
> > > > particular airlines that day...
> > >
> > > LOL! And NWA controls something like 95% of the gates at Lindbergh
> > > Terminal. That'll learn 'em.
>
> > Yeah, they had to rent a car for the rest of the journey to
Chicago...they
> > were crybabying down all the way, heehee...served 'em right I say.
>
> > Just being nice to beleagured customer service personnel can work
wonders.
> > It's basic good sense, not rocket science...amazing how few folx realize
> > this.
>
> OK, Gregory -- I've seen it twice from you and I just gotta let you know
> I noticed -- folx? How precious! "-)


It's one of my nouvelle - vague Usenet "expressions"...and the spelling
*does* make some kind of sense, no...???

Others a

"hampster" for "hamster

"sleezy" for "sleazy"

"wierd" for "weird"

"Brab" for "Barb" (she's a regular on *chi.general, it's a term of
endearment for her), etc....

I'll collate the others later...

;---p

--
Best
Greg

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 04:27:48 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
<gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net>
wrote:

> > > It's basic good sense, not rocket science...amazing how few folx realize
> > > this.
> >
> > OK, Gregory -- I've seen it twice from you and I just gotta let you know
> > I noticed -- folx? How precious! "-)
>
>
> It's one of my nouvelle - vague Usenet "expressions"...and the spelling
> *does* make some kind of sense, no...???

It makes complete sense... because phonetically x = ks
>
> Others a
>
> "hampster" for "hamster
>
> "sleezy" for "sleazy"
>
> "wierd" for "weird"

All of the above are just poor spelling, nothing more.
>
> "Brab" for "Barb" (she's a regular on *chi.general, it's a term of
> endearment for her), etc....

Sorta, maybe, I hope you're right.

sf

In article >,
Dog3 > wrote:

> I was really worried during my 2 layovers. I had
> a very short time to get from gate to gate.

Depends on the airport and whether you're staying on the same airline.
In some places (like Minneapolis/St. Paul) it is possible to stay in
the "sterile" area between concourses and not have to go through
security again.

> I wonder what happens if you
> miss your flight while having your luggage inspected etc. and they find
> nothing out of the ordinary?

Heh. I suspect you _may_ get an eyes-down mumbled "sorry" and get to
call it a day. The government certainly will not feel responsible for
that.

sd