On Wed 19 Jan 2005 09:17:40p, Puester tittered and giggled, and giggled
and tittered, and finally blurted out...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>>
>> All of those are fond memories for me, too.
>
>> The other memory is of a rather unique store where my parents
>> bought poultry. It was called "Pic-A-Chic", where live chickens were
>> on display. Customers chose the chicken they wanted. The clerk would
>> take the chicken to the back room for killing, then return with it to
>> the front to use the plucking machine for all to see. The freshly
>> killed and cleaned chicken was then packaged for the customer.
>>
>> Wayne
>
> I remember seeing that only at the kosher chicken store.
>
> I remember a store downtown that sold only butter and eggs
> (and maybe other dairy products, but I don't remember those.)
> And the store next to it sold only coffee beans. It was not
> uncommon to make four or more stops for groceries--butcher,
> greengrocer, coffee, the delicatessen, and Kennedy's butter-and-egg
> store.
>
> The only take-out I remnember was a series of hole-in-the-wall
> fish and chip shops that were open only Fridays in our heavily
> Catholic city.
>
> My parents owned a neighborhood market, so I wasn't
> exposed to a lot of other food stores, growing up.
>
> gloria p

My parents went to a separate butcher, too, but most everything else was
from the supermarket. My parents always put in a large vegetable garden in
the summer and grew most of our vegetables. They also canned, froze, and
pickeled vegetables and fruits.

I don't remember fish and chips shops, as our family ate very little fish,
and usually only fish that my dad caught when he went on fishing trips. I
do remember a tiny burger place in St. Louis called White Tower. They were
similar to Royal Castle, White Castle, and other later chains.

Wayne

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

>>I'm very happy that my "monkey" is typically entertainment for everbody
>>during my shopping experiences with him. Just today I got a compliment
>>from an older lady about how cute he was & how much she was enjoying
>>him. Whats even funnier, is he gets more silly & giddy when he hasn't
>>had a nap & he didn't today until the drive home at 4:30pm.
>>I would go nuts if I had children like the ones I have seen in other
>>families at stores & bless my lucky stars that as of yet, at 2.5 years
>>of age he hasn't had a tantrum in a public place. (knock on wood)
>
> I feel the same way about may cats, but I wouldn't inflict them on the
> general public in a store.
>
> Wayne

Well... that's just a silly statement.

How do you expect children to learn how to learn & act in social situations?
I'll admit that my child may **** somebody off someday, but I would
certainly do something about it when it happens, like an apology from me
and also hopefully my child will apologise when asked to (if he has
gotten to that level of understanding & verbal ability)

Going out in public and having a parent who is a good mentor is the only
way a child can learn what is socially acceptable norms of behavior.

Of course, you have always been perfect?

Cindy Fuller wrote:
> In article >,
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
> snip
>> My solution? I shop at the most uncommon times imaginable; at 5 or 6
>> o'clock in the morning or 11 or 12 o'clock in the evening. The
>> stores are sparsely populated and I can enjoy the process.
>>
>> Creative avoidance is sometimes the best solution!
>>
>> Wayne
>
> I used to do that when I lived in Dallas 20 years ago. It was more
> crowd avoidance than whiner avoidance. One morning a cop car pulled
> into the Tom Thumb parking lot right behind me at 6:15 am. I wasn't
> speeding; rather, the store's surveillance camera caught a guy filling
> his sweats with packages of ribeye steaks. He wound up eating SOS at
> the Dallas jail that day, no doubt.
>
> Cindy

If they served him SOS in jail he was probably a happy camper. More likely
pimiento cheese on white bread with a cup of cherry Kool-Aid (cyanide not
included).

Jill

On Thu 20 Jan 2005 01:16:13a, Denise~* tittered and giggled, and giggled
and tittered, and finally blurted out...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>>>I'm very happy that my "monkey" is typically entertainment for everbody
>>>during my shopping experiences with him. Just today I got a
>>>compliment from an older lady about how cute he was & how much she was
>>>enjoying him. Whats even funnier, is he gets more silly & giddy when
>>>he hasn't had a nap & he didn't today until the drive home at 4:30pm.
>>>I would go nuts if I had children like the ones I have seen in other
>>>families at stores & bless my lucky stars that as of yet, at 2.5 years
>>>of age he hasn't had a tantrum in a public place. (knock on wood)
>>
>> I feel the same way about may cats, but I wouldn't inflict them on the
>> general public in a store.
>>
>> Wayne
>
> Well... that's just a silly statement.

No sillier than your assuming your child is "entertainment" for everybody
in public. Not everyone wants to be entertained by someone elses kids.
I'd rather pay for my entertainment and choose its venue. Silly and giddy,
possibly loud and boisterous, underfoot and in the way, are not
characteristics that I find appealing when I'm trying to shop or eat in a
rewtaurant. AFAIC, it's an unpleasant distraction.

> How do you expect children to learn how to learn & act in social
> situations? I'll admit that my child may **** somebody off someday, but
> I would certainly do something about it when it happens, like an apology
> from me and also hopefully my child will apologise when asked to (if he
> has gotten to that level of understanding & verbal ability)
>
> Going out in public and having a parent who is a good mentor is the only
> way a child can learn what is socially acceptable norms of behavior.

You are absolutely correct. When a parent IS a good mentor, then a child
should certainly be with them in public. All too often, however, parents
act as though their child isn't even there and exert absolutely no
authority over them in controlling their behaviour. What really ****es me
off are the parents that think their child's misbehavior is "cute". It
clearly is not. Just last week I encountered a couple in the supermarket
with three children who were probably under the age of five. They were
near the end of an aisle I was trying to exit, noisily running back and
forth, rolling around on the floor, and blocking the aisle. I had to turn
around and traverse the entire aisle to get away from them. There is no
excuse for such behavior.

When I see well-behaved children, I make it a point to comment on this to
the parent. Unfortunately, this is all too seldom.

> Of course, you have always been perfect?

Yes. <G>

Wayne

Denise~* wrote:
>> That's all great and well and true, but I still expect people to be
>> aware of their surroundings and to keep their children from
>> interfering with my shopping. I have a 1 year old who always shops
>> with me, often with a cart piled high with a few week's worth of
>> groceries. I keep his hands in the cart, keep him out of the way of
>> others and keep him quiet. He's quiet because I make sure he is fed
>> and napped before I take him in the store.
(snippage)
>> -L.
>>
> I'm very happy that my "monkey" is typically entertainment for
> everbody during my shopping experiences with him. Just today I got
> a compliment from an older lady about how cute he was & how much she
> was enjoying him.
(snippage)

She was probably a frustrated non-grandmother. I don't generally find other
peoples kids "cute", regardless of the age or behavior. Don't block the
aisles while old ladies fawn over them like they are a dog. Find them cute
at home; I just want to buy the items on my list and get the hell out of
there.

Jill

In article >,
Denise~* > wrote:


> Well... that's just a silly statement.
>
> How do you expect children to learn how to learn & act in social situations?
> I'll admit that my child may **** somebody off someday, but I would
> certainly do something about it when it happens, like an apology from me
> and also hopefully my child will apologise when asked to (if he has
> gotten to that level of understanding & verbal ability)
>
> Going out in public and having a parent who is a good mentor is the only
> way a child can learn what is socially acceptable norms of behavior.
>
Amen, Denise! Although I am of the childless persuasion, I firmly
believe the best way for kids to learn proper behavior and etiquette is
to be out in public and (gasp!) go to good restaurants. Social graces
are not learned by eating fast food in the back of Mom's minivan.

Our neighborhood group has several children in it, and they go to dinner
with us. They are polite, well-behaved, and joys to be with.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

Cindy Fuller wrote:

> Amen, Denise! Although I am of the childless persuasion, I firmly
> believe the best way for kids to learn proper behavior and etiquette is
> to be out in public and (gasp!) go to good restaurants. Social graces
> are not learned by eating fast food in the back of Mom's minivan.

That's fine as long as I don't have to be part of the learning process. I accept
that it is part of the package if you go to a family restaurant, but if I pay the
extra to go to a nice restaurant I don't want to be exposed to someone else's
noisy ill-behaved kids.

> Our neighborhood group has several children in it, and they go to dinner
> with us. They are polite, well-behaved, and joys to be with.

I don't think any reasonable person would be offended by well behaved children.
Crying infants have no place in a nice restaurant IMO. They aren't learning
anything. They are too young to be acquiring social graces. Kids who make a lot of
noise or get up and run around have not yet learned them.

On Thu 20 Jan 2005 09:12:54a, Cindy Fuller tittered and giggled, and
giggled and tittered, and finally blurted out...

> In article >,
> Denise~* > wrote:
>
>
>> Well... that's just a silly statement.
>>
>> How do you expect children to learn how to learn & act in social
>> situations? I'll admit that my child may **** somebody off someday, but
>> I would certainly do something about it when it happens, like an
>> apology from me and also hopefully my child will apologise when asked
>> to (if he has gotten to that level of understanding & verbal ability)
>>
>> Going out in public and having a parent who is a good mentor is the
>> only way a child can learn what is socially acceptable norms of
>> behavior.
>>
> Amen, Denise! Although I am of the childless persuasion, I firmly
> believe the best way for kids to learn proper behavior and etiquette is
> to be out in public and (gasp!) go to good restaurants. Social graces
> are not learned by eating fast food in the back of Mom's minivan.
>
> Our neighborhood group has several children in it, and they go to dinner
> with us. They are polite, well-behaved, and joys to be with.
>
> Cindy
>

Unfortunately, all too often they are ill-behaved and the parents don't
give a damn.

Wayne

On Thu 20 Jan 2005 09:22:53a, Dave Smith tittered and giggled, and giggled
and tittered, and finally blurted out...

> Cindy Fuller wrote:
>
>> Amen, Denise! Although I am of the childless persuasion, I firmly
>> believe the best way for kids to learn proper behavior and etiquette is
>> to be out in public and (gasp!) go to good restaurants. Social graces
>> are not learned by eating fast food in the back of Mom's minivan.
>
> That's fine as long as I don't have to be part of the learning process.
> I accept that it is part of the package if you go to a family
> restaurant, but if I pay the extra to go to a nice restaurant I don't
> want to be exposed to someone else's noisy ill-behaved kids.
>
>> Our neighborhood group has several children in it, and they go to
>> dinner with us. They are polite, well-behaved, and joys to be with.
>
> I don't think any reasonable person would be offended by well behaved
> children. Crying infants have no place in a nice restaurant IMO. They
> aren't learning anything. They are too young to be acquiring social
> graces. Kids who make a lot of noise or get up and run around have not
> yet learned them.
>

Precisely!

Wayne

In article >,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> You are absolutely correct. When a parent IS a good mentor, then a child
> should certainly be with them in public. All too often, however, parents
> act as though their child isn't even there and exert absolutely no
> authority over them in controlling their behaviour. What really ****es me
> off are the parents that think their child's misbehavior is "cute". It
> clearly is not. Just last week I encountered a couple in the supermarket
> with three children who were probably under the age of five. They were
> near the end of an aisle I was trying to exit, noisily running back and
> forth, rolling around on the floor, and blocking the aisle. I had to turn
> around and traverse the entire aisle to get away from them. There is no
> excuse for such behavior.

Particularly irritating are the parents who let their kids run around at
the restaurant. And if a waiter or waitress burdened by a full try trips
over the little darling, you *know* the formerly inattentive parent is
going to start screaming.

--
to respond (OT only), change "spamless.invalid" to "optonline.net"

<http://www.thecoffeefaq.com/>

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> Unfortunately, all too often they are ill-behaved and the parents
don't
> give a damn.
>
> Wayne
Or worse yet - don't see their children as "ill behaved".

-L.

As the director of a Food Pantry, I do HUGE shoppings. Whenever I hear
grumbles coming from the folks behind me I usually turn around and
smile. That will usually be followed by them asking me why I'm buying
50 cans of Ravioli or Baked Beans or 25 dozen eggs, etc. I explain what
the food is for and it diffuses the situation immediately. Then they
ask about the food pantry and who uses it and where is it, etc. Most
people are willing to be nice if you just give them the chance.

I used to give other "funny" excuses like,"My boys are home from college
for the weekend." or "I only get off the mountain once a year."

I like a saying that I heard just recently. "Don't frown so often,
someone may be falling in love with your smile."

Denise in NH

> No sillier than your assuming your child is "entertainment" for everybody
> in public. Not everyone wants to be entertained by someone elses kids.
> I'd rather pay for my entertainment and choose its venue. Silly and giddy,
> possibly loud and boisterous, underfoot and in the way, are not
> characteristics that I find appealing when I'm trying to shop or eat in a
> rewtaurant. AFAIC, it's an unpleasant distraction.

Actually, it wasn't an assumption. Just about every time we go out I
get a compliment and/or a smiles toward my kid. the compliment is
typically about how cute/well behaved he is. It's nice to hear, and
also reinforces my belief that I must have a special child, because I
don't think this is all learned behavior. I think my boy's personality
is very different than the average child. I think the noisiest he gets
is typically a boisterous giggle, because we would be probably making
faces to each other or doing something silly while shopping or standing
in line.

One thing I never do is let him run around aimlessly either. He always
sits in the cart, and if he ever got too old to do that, he would be
taught to walk by my side & behave.

I think a lot that might have to do with this is that I am a work at
home mom & he has never had to spend any time in daycare. We also
"talk" to him and treat him with a level of respect that I don't believe
some parents do. We also hold the belief that most "popular" and PC
child rearing practices are bull.

> You are absolutely correct. When a parent IS a good mentor, then a child
> should certainly be with them in public. All too often, however, parents
> act as though their child isn't even there and exert absolutely no
> authority over them in controlling their behaviour. What really ****es me
> off are the parents that think their child's misbehavior is "cute". It
> clearly is not. Just last week I encountered a couple in the supermarket
> with three children who were probably under the age of five. They were
> near the end of an aisle I was trying to exit, noisily running back and
> forth, rolling around on the floor, and blocking the aisle. I had to turn
> around and traverse the entire aisle to get away from them. There is no
> excuse for such behavior.
>
> When I see well-behaved children, I make it a point to comment on this to
> the parent. Unfortunately, this is all too seldom.

So why would you assume the opposite just because it's seldom that you
see it?

As a matter of fact, about 6 months ago we were at home depot & my boy
was acting just a little too hyper. he was sitting in the cart, but was
driving ME nuts even. On the way home I called DH and asked him to meet
me at a park & ride. We exchanged cars & then I went grocery shopping.
That is the only time we have ever had to do that.

On Thu 20 Jan 2005 11:22:27a, -L. tittered and giggled, and giggled and
tittered, and finally blurted out...

>
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> Unfortunately, all too often they are ill-behaved and the parents
>> don't give a damn.
>>
>> Wayne
> Or worse yet - don't see their children as "ill behaved".
>
> -L.
>
>

I fear that's often the case.

Wayne

On Thu 20 Jan 2005 11:22:27a, -L. tittered and giggled, and giggled and
tittered, and finally blurted out...

>
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> Unfortunately, all too often they are ill-behaved and the parents
>> don't give a damn.
>>
>> Wayne
> Or worse yet - don't see their children as "ill behaved".
>
> -L.
>
>

I fear that's often the case.

Wayne

On Thu 20 Jan 2005 11:48:59a, Denise~* tittered and giggled, and giggled
and tittered, and finally blurted out...

>
>> No sillier than your assuming your child is "entertainment" for
>> everybody in public. Not everyone wants to be entertained by someone
>> elses kids. I'd rather pay for my entertainment and choose its venue.
>> Silly and giddy, possibly loud and boisterous, underfoot and in the
>> way, are not characteristics that I find appealing when I'm trying to
>> shop or eat in a rewtaurant. AFAIC, it's an unpleasant distraction.
>
> Actually, it wasn't an assumption. Just about every time we go out I
> get a compliment and/or a smiles toward my kid. the compliment is
> typically about how cute/well behaved he is. It's nice to hear, and
> also reinforces my belief that I must have a special child, because I
> don't think this is all learned behavior. I think my boy's personality
> is very different than the average child. I think the noisiest he gets
> is typically a boisterous giggle, because we would be probably making
> faces to each other or doing something silly while shopping or standing
> in line.

Denise, I hope you didn't take this personally. It wasn't meant so. Given
your description of your son's behavior, you are to be congratulated on
your attentiveness and your child-rearing skills. You and your son are
probably ones who I would compliment.

> One thing I never do is let him run around aimlessly either. He always
> sits in the cart, and if he ever got too old to do that, he would be
> taught to walk by my side & behave.

From my experience, this is not usually what I see.

> I think a lot that might have to do with this is that I am a work at
> home mom & he has never had to spend any time in daycare. We also
> "talk" to him and treat him with a level of respect that I don't believe
> some parents do. We also hold the belief that most "popular" and PC
> child rearing practices are bull.

You are probably right about the popular and PC child rearing techniques.

>> You are absolutely correct. When a parent IS a good mentor, then a
>> child should certainly be with them in public. All too often, however,
>> parents act as though their child isn't even there and exert absolutely
>> no authority over them in controlling their behaviour. What really
>> ****es me off are the parents that think their child's misbehavior is
>> "cute". It clearly is not. Just last week I encountered a couple in
>> the supermarket with three children who were probably under the age of
>> five. They were near the end of an aisle I was trying to exit, noisily
>> running back and forth, rolling around on the floor, and blocking the
>> aisle. I had to turn around and traverse the entire aisle to get away
>> from them. There is no excuse for such behavior.
>>
>> When I see well-behaved children, I make it a point to comment on this
>> to the parent. Unfortunately, this is all too seldom.
>
> So why would you assume the opposite just because it's seldom that you
> see it?

I'm not assuming anything. Mostly I see ill-behaved children with parents
who either don't care or don't recognize it themselves. Possibly the
parents are just as ill-behaved in their own way in other venues. What see
least are well-behaved children with attentive parents.

> As a matter of fact, about 6 months ago we were at home depot & my boy
> was acting just a little too hyper. he was sitting in the cart, but was
> driving ME nuts even. On the way home I called DH and asked him to meet
> me at a park & ride. We exchanged cars & then I went grocery shopping.
> That is the only time we have ever had to do that.

Obviously, your love and diligence in raising your son has paid big
dividends. I understand that children's behavior can be unpredictable, and
this instance you clearly did the right thing. I wish more parents would
do the same.

Cheers,
Wayne

Dave Smith wrote:
> Cindy Fuller wrote:
>
> > Amen, Denise! Although I am of the childless persuasion, I firmly
> > believe the best way for kids to learn proper behavior and
etiquette is
> > to be out in public and (gasp!) go to good restaurants. Social
graces
> > are not learned by eating fast food in the back of Mom's minivan.
>
> That's fine as long as I don't have to be part of the learning
process. I accept
> that it is part of the package if you go to a family restaurant, but
if I pay the
> extra to go to a nice restaurant I don't want to be exposed to
someone else's
> noisy ill-behaved kids.

I agree and I have a child. Many of the restaurants here have "family
night" where the kids can dine in an adult restaurant and learn their
social graces. When I'm out with DH alone, I don't want to have my
dinner interrupted by the "antics" of someone else's kid. If I want to
be "entertained" I have a Master of Entertainment at home, and being
biased as I am, he is much cuter, smarter, and entertaining than anyone
else's child could possibly ever be

>
> > Our neighborhood group has several children in it, and they go to
dinner
> > with us. They are polite, well-behaved, and joys to be with.
>
> I don't think any reasonable person would be offended by well behaved
children.
> Crying infants have no place in a nice restaurant IMO. They aren't
learning
> anything. They are too young to be acquiring social graces. Kids who
make a lot of
> noise or get up and run around have not yet learned them.

Yup. And there's nothing wrong with beginning to learn the social
graces at fast food restaurants (or similar). DS and I sometimes eat
at the lunch area at the local Whole Foods, where it is already noisy
and the setting informal. He's usually so engrossed in his food, he
doesn't make a peep. Once he understands to stay seated and be quite
we will "graduate" to more challenging establishments. We do, on
occasion, do the "family night" at a local brew pub, too, but try to
go early before the kids in the restaurant get too wild.

-L.

On Thu 20 Jan 2005 11:30:52a, Denise G. tittered and giggled, and giggled and
tittered, and finally blurted out...

> I like a saying that I heard just recently. "Don't frown so often,
> someone may be falling in love with your smile."
>
> Denise in NH
>

That is a nice thought!

Wayne

"Vox Humana" > wrote in message
...
>
> "-L." > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > Vox Humana wrote:
> There must be some age-dependant gene that
> > activates,
> > > inducing older people to stop short just inside, or outside, of doors
> > and
> > > other narrow passages.
> >
> > It's the same gene that smokers have that make them stop short just
> > outide of doors and light up...and then stand there a minute or two
> > while they get their fix.
> >
>
> I hear you! What I don't understand is that if cigarettes are so
wonderful,
> why do people insist on holding them out the window while they drive? Why
> not light several, put them in the ash try, roll up the windows, and
relish
> a total immersion in cigarette smoke? It never fails that when I am in a
> drive-thru line, some asshole in front of me lights up and then hold the
> cigarette out the window as if I would like to have my car fumigated by
the
> very smoke that they don't want in their car!
>
>

The smoker who pops the butt out the window also doesn't use the ashtray in
the car either.....says 'this way no one will know that I smoke in the
car'......Horsecrap.......it's on their breath, in their hair, on their
clothing so of course it is in the car even if they don't smoke while
driving and oh so smuggly pop the butt out the window.
-Ginny
(who knows too many people who claim this is the reason they do it)

"Denise~*" > wrote in message
...
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> >>I'm very happy that my "monkey" is typically entertainment for everbody
> >>during my shopping experiences with him. Just today I got a compliment
> >>from an older lady about how cute he was & how much she was enjoying
> >>him. Whats even funnier, is he gets more silly & giddy when he hasn't
> >>had a nap & he didn't today until the drive home at 4:30pm.
> >>I would go nuts if I had children like the ones I have seen in other
> >>families at stores & bless my lucky stars that as of yet, at 2.5 years
> >>of age he hasn't had a tantrum in a public place. (knock on wood)
> >
> > I feel the same way about may cats, but I wouldn't inflict them on the
> > general public in a store.
> >
> > Wayne
>
> Well... that's just a silly statement.
>
> How do you expect children to learn how to learn & act in social
situations?

Well, I don't think much learning takes place when little Couten and Paige
are body surfing down the cereal isle while mom in on the cell phone
blocking the dairy case halfway across the store. Therein lies the problem.
No teaching or learning takes place. At best, the parents contribute to the
chaos by sporadically screaming "If you don't stop that I'm going to smack
the hell out of you."

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu 20 Jan 2005 11:48:59a, Denise~* tittered and giggled, and giggled
> and tittered, and finally blurted out...
>
> >
> >> No sillier than your assuming your child is "entertainment" for
> >> everybody in public. Not everyone wants to be entertained by someone
> >> elses kids. I'd rather pay for my entertainment and choose its venue.
> >> Silly and giddy, possibly loud and boisterous, underfoot and in the
> >> way, are not characteristics that I find appealing when I'm trying to
> >> shop or eat in a rewtaurant. AFAIC, it's an unpleasant distraction.
> >
> > Actually, it wasn't an assumption. Just about every time we go out I
> > get a compliment and/or a smiles toward my kid. the compliment is
> > typically about how cute/well behaved he is. It's nice to hear, and
> > also reinforces my belief that I must have a special child, because I
> > don't think this is all learned behavior. I think my boy's personality
> > is very different than the average child. I think the noisiest he gets
> > is typically a boisterous giggle, because we would be probably making
> > faces to each other or doing something silly while shopping or standing
> > in line.
>
> Denise, I hope you didn't take this personally. It wasn't meant so.
Given
> your description of your son's behavior, you are to be congratulated on
> your attentiveness and your child-rearing skills. You and your son are
> probably ones who I would compliment.
>
> > One thing I never do is let him run around aimlessly either. He always
> > sits in the cart, and if he ever got too old to do that, he would be
> > taught to walk by my side & behave.
>
> From my experience, this is not usually what I see.
>
> > I think a lot that might have to do with this is that I am a work at
> > home mom & he has never had to spend any time in daycare. We also
> > "talk" to him and treat him with a level of respect that I don't believe
> > some parents do. We also hold the belief that most "popular" and PC
> > child rearing practices are bull.
>
> You are probably right about the popular and PC child rearing techniques.
>
> >> You are absolutely correct. When a parent IS a good mentor, then a
> >> child should certainly be with them in public. All too often, however,
> >> parents act as though their child isn't even there and exert absolutely
> >> no authority over them in controlling their behaviour. What really
> >> ****es me off are the parents that think their child's misbehavior is
> >> "cute". It clearly is not. Just last week I encountered a couple in
> >> the supermarket with three children who were probably under the age of
> >> five. They were near the end of an aisle I was trying to exit, noisily
> >> running back and forth, rolling around on the floor, and blocking the
> >> aisle. I had to turn around and traverse the entire aisle to get away
> >> from them. There is no excuse for such behavior.
> >>
> >> When I see well-behaved children, I make it a point to comment on this
> >> to the parent. Unfortunately, this is all too seldom.
> >
> > So why would you assume the opposite just because it's seldom that you
> > see it?
>
> I'm not assuming anything. Mostly I see ill-behaved children with parents
> who either don't care or don't recognize it themselves. Possibly the
> parents are just as ill-behaved in their own way in other venues. What
see
> least are well-behaved children with attentive parents.
>
> > As a matter of fact, about 6 months ago we were at home depot & my boy
> > was acting just a little too hyper. he was sitting in the cart, but was
> > driving ME nuts even. On the way home I called DH and asked him to meet
> > me at a park & ride. We exchanged cars & then I went grocery shopping.
> > That is the only time we have ever had to do that.
>
> Obviously, your love and diligence in raising your son has paid big
> dividends. I understand that children's behavior can be unpredictable,
and
> this instance you clearly did the right thing. I wish more parents would
> do the same.
>
> Cheers,
> Wayne
>
What really ****es me off royally is the intervener who tells me I should
'lighten up, they're just kids' when I try to reprimand my kids. I took the
three remaining trolls to a diner one night when my husband had a late
meeting. (Oldest in the Navy, let Uncle Sam deal with his manners) The 13
year old and the 11 year old were at each other from the start. The 8 year
old not to be left out jumped in. I told them that we were in a public
place and to behave. It didn't work.......I asked the waitress, who had
brought them drinks but hadn't taken our order yet to give me a check for
the drinks, we were leaving. They looked at me like I had three heads and
started whining 'why'. I told them that if they misbehave in public there
are consequences....like going home to a pbj. Which is exactly what they
got for dinner when they got home. They weren't happy, but I told them the
old adage...íf mom ain't happy, ain't no body happy ....I refuse to be made
look bad in public by misbehaving children. On the way out, an older woman
stopped me and told me to 'lighten up, they were just children'....I told
her when should I step in? When they threw chairs at each other? She
looked at me in horror, but I then turned around and asked her did her
children behave that way in public when they were younger and would she have
put up with it....? I left, children in tow, public seeing I took charge,
and one older lady with her mouth open.
-Ginny

On Thu 20 Jan 2005 12:34:50p, Virginia Tadrzynski tittered and giggled,
and giggled and tittered, and finally blurted out...

>
> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Thu 20 Jan 2005 11:48:59a, Denise~* tittered and giggled, and
>> giggled and tittered, and finally blurted out...
>>
>> >
>> >> No sillier than your assuming your child is "entertainment" for
>> >> everybody in public. Not everyone wants to be entertained by
>> >> someone elses kids. I'd rather pay for my entertainment and choose
>> >> its venue. Silly and giddy, possibly loud and boisterous, underfoot
>> >> and in the way, are not characteristics that I find appealing when
>> >> I'm trying to shop or eat in a rewtaurant. AFAIC, it's an
>> >> unpleasant distraction.
>> >
>> > Actually, it wasn't an assumption. Just about every time we go out I
>> > get a compliment and/or a smiles toward my kid. the compliment is
>> > typically about how cute/well behaved he is. It's nice to hear, and
>> > also reinforces my belief that I must have a special child, because I
>> > don't think this is all learned behavior. I think my boy's
>> > personality is very different than the average child. I think the
>> > noisiest he gets is typically a boisterous giggle, because we would
>> > be probably making faces to each other or doing something silly while
>> > shopping or standing in line.
>>
>> Denise, I hope you didn't take this personally. It wasn't meant so.
>> Given your description of your son's behavior, you are to be
>> congratulated on your attentiveness and your child-rearing skills. You
>> and your son are probably ones who I would compliment.
>>
>> > One thing I never do is let him run around aimlessly either. He
>> > always sits in the cart, and if he ever got too old to do that, he
>> > would be taught to walk by my side & behave.
>>
>> From my experience, this is not usually what I see.
>>
>> > I think a lot that might have to do with this is that I am a work at
>> > home mom & he has never had to spend any time in daycare. We also
>> > "talk" to him and treat him with a level of respect that I don't
>> > believe some parents do. We also hold the belief that most "popular"
>> > and PC child rearing practices are bull.
>>
>> You are probably right about the popular and PC child rearing
>> techniques.
>>
>> >> You are absolutely correct. When a parent IS a good mentor, then a
>> >> child should certainly be with them in public. All too often,
>> >> however, parents act as though their child isn't even there and
>> >> exert absolutely no authority over them in controlling their
>> >> behaviour. What really ****es me off are the parents that think
>> >> their child's misbehavior is "cute". It clearly is not. Just last
>> >> week I encountered a couple in the supermarket with three children
>> >> who were probably under the age of five. They were near the end of
>> >> an aisle I was trying to exit, noisily running back and forth,
>> >> rolling around on the floor, and blocking the aisle. I had to turn
>> >> around and traverse the entire aisle to get away from them. There
>> >> is no excuse for such behavior.
>> >>
>> >> When I see well-behaved children, I make it a point to comment on
>> >> this to the parent. Unfortunately, this is all too seldom.
>> >
>> > So why would you assume the opposite just because it's seldom that
>> > you see it?
>>
>> I'm not assuming anything. Mostly I see ill-behaved children with
>> parents who either don't care or don't recognize it themselves.
>> Possibly the parents are just as ill-behaved in their own way in other
>> venues. What see least are well-behaved children with attentive
>> parents.
>>
>> > As a matter of fact, about 6 months ago we were at home depot & my
>> > boy was acting just a little too hyper. he was sitting in the cart,
>> > but was driving ME nuts even. On the way home I called DH and asked
>> > him to meet me at a park & ride. We exchanged cars & then I went
>> > grocery shopping.
>> > That is the only time we have ever had to do that.
>>
>> Obviously, your love and diligence in raising your son has paid big
>> dividends. I understand that children's behavior can be unpredictable,
>> and this instance you clearly did the right thing. I wish more parents
>> would do the same.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Wayne
>>
> What really ****es me off royally is the intervener who tells me I
> should 'lighten up, they're just kids' when I try to reprimand my kids.
> I took the three remaining trolls to a diner one night when my husband
> had a late meeting. (Oldest in the Navy, let Uncle Sam deal with his
> manners) The 13 year old and the 11 year old were at each other from
> the start. The 8 year old not to be left out jumped in. I told them
> that we were in a public place and to behave. It didn't work.......I
> asked the waitress, who had brought them drinks but hadn't taken our
> order yet to give me a check for the drinks, we were leaving. They
> looked at me like I had three heads and started whining 'why'. I told
> them that if they misbehave in public there are consequences....like
> going home to a pbj. Which is exactly what they got for dinner when
> they got home. They weren't happy, but I told them the old adage...íf
> mom ain't happy, ain't no body happy ....I refuse to be made look bad in
> public by misbehaving children. On the way out, an older woman stopped
> me and told me to 'lighten up, they were just children'....I told her
> when should I step in? When they threw chairs at each other? She
> looked at me in horror, but I then turned around and asked her did her
> children behave that way in public when they were younger and would she
> have put up with it....? I left, children in tow, public seeing I took
> charge, and one older lady with her mouth open.
> -Ginny

APPLAUSE!!!

Wayne

"Virginia Tadrzynski" > wrote in message
...
>>
> What really ****es me off royally is the intervener who tells me I should
> 'lighten up, they're just kids' when I try to reprimand my kids. I took
> the
> three remaining trolls to a diner one night when my husband had a late
> meeting. (Oldest in the Navy, let Uncle Sam deal with his manners) The 13
> year old and the 11 year old were at each other from the start. The 8
> year
> old not to be left out jumped in. I told them that we were in a public
> place and to behave. It didn't work.......I asked the waitress, who had
> brought them drinks but hadn't taken our order yet to give me a check for
> the drinks, we were leaving. They looked at me like I had three heads and
> started whining 'why'. I told them that if they misbehave in public there
> are consequences....like going home to a pbj. Which is exactly what they
> got for dinner when they got home. They weren't happy, but I told them
> the
> old adage...íf mom ain't happy, ain't no body happy ....I refuse to be
> made
> look bad in public by misbehaving children. On the way out, an older
> woman
> stopped me and told me to 'lighten up, they were just children'....I told
> her when should I step in? When they threw chairs at each other? She
> looked at me in horror, but I then turned around and asked her did her
> children behave that way in public when they were younger and would she
> have
> put up with it....? I left, children in tow, public seeing I took
> charge,
> and one older lady with her mouth open.
> -Ginny
>
>
Good for you!! I wish more people took your approach.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

Virginia Tadrzynski wrote:
> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
> ...
> What really ****es me off royally is the intervener who tells me I
should
> 'lighten up, they're just kids' when I try to reprimand my kids. I
took the
> three remaining trolls to a diner one night when my husband had a
late
> meeting. (Oldest in the Navy, let Uncle Sam deal with his manners)
The 13
> year old and the 11 year old were at each other from the start. The
8 year
> old not to be left out jumped in. I told them that we were in a
public
> place and to behave. It didn't work.......I asked the waitress, who
had
> brought them drinks but hadn't taken our order yet to give me a check
for
> the drinks, we were leaving. They looked at me like I had three
heads and
> started whining 'why'. I told them that if they misbehave in public
there
> are consequences....like going home to a pbj. Which is exactly what
they
> got for dinner when they got home. They weren't happy, but I told
them the
> old adage...=EDf mom ain't happy, ain't no body happy ....I refuse to
be made
> look bad in public by misbehaving children. On the way out, an
older woman
> stopped me and told me to 'lighten up, they were just children'....I
told
> her when should I step in? When they threw chairs at each other?
She
> looked at me in horror, but I then turned around and asked her did
her
> children behave that way in public when they were younger and would
she have
> put up with it....? I left, children in tow, public seeing I took
charge,
> and one older lady with her mouth open.
> -Ginny


Good for you. I saw someone else do something similar in the grocery
store once - she had two boys about 6 and 7 and a girl about 4. The
boys went and got onto one of the "car" carts, and the little girl was
supposed to ride inside the cart - well, she was having no part of it
and putting up a fuss. Her Mom told her to cool it and if she couldn't
get herself under control they would leave - the girl continued to
squall, Mom took all three by the hand and marched them out to the car.
Good Mommy!

-L.

Vox Humana wrote:
> Well, I don't think much learning takes place when little Couten and
Paige
> are body surfing down the cereal isle while mom in on the cell phone
> blocking the dairy case halfway across the store. Therein lies the
problem.
> No teaching or learning takes place. At best, the parents contribute
to the
> chaos by sporadically screaming "If you don't stop that I'm going to
smack
> the hell out of you."

Or worse yet, scream "Coulten, don't do that! Coulten, don't do that!"
50 million times. My favorite thing to do is walk by an ill-behaved
child in the grocery store and frown disapprovingly at them. Usually
shuts them up and/or scares the shit out of them.
-L.
"That Mean Lady"

jmcquown wrote:
>
> She was probably a frustrated non-grandmother. I don't generally
find other
> peoples kids "cute", regardless of the age or behavior.

Unfortunately many parents don't realize that *NO ONE* thinks their
kids are as cute/interesting/charming as they do.

>Don't block the
> aisles while old ladies fawn over them like they are a dog. Find
them cute
> at home; I just want to buy the items on my list and get the hell out
of
> there.
>
> Jill

As do I, and that's why I opt to leave DS at home when I can, if I am
doing major shopping.

-L.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> Denise, I hope you didn't take this personally. It wasn't meant so. Given

Well, it did get a little personal, but I'll forgive you

I do know exactly what you are complaining about though.

I see it often too. My latest example is a couple at IKEA with a boy
who looked to be around 1 to 1-1/2 YOA. He was crying & fussing, but
the parents were in this little semi-argument/discussion about
something. During this time they passed the baby back & forth to each
other a couple times, never once paying attention to the baby &
addressing his fussiness. Still in their little discussion, the last
parent with the baby put him back into the cart & they both walked away,
baby still crying.

I felt sorry for the baby & irritated with the parents.

"-L." > wrote in message
ups.com...

.. My favorite thing to do is walk by an ill-behaved
> child in the grocery store and frown disapprovingly at them. Usually
> shuts them up and/or scares the shit out of them.


Oh, I thought I was the only one who did that. It is great fun.

Vox Humana wrote:
> "-L." > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
> . My favorite thing to do is walk by an ill-behaved
>> child in the grocery store and frown disapprovingly at
>> them. Usually shuts them up and/or scares the shit out
>> of them.
>
>
> Oh, I thought I was the only one who did that. It is
> great fun.

Make that 3 of us. It usually shuts the little bugger up for a little
while, too.

BOB

-L. wrote:
> Vox Humana wrote:
>> Well, I don't think much learning takes place when little Couten and
>> Paige are body surfing down the cereal isle while mom in on the cell
>> phone blocking the dairy case halfway across the store. Therein
>> lies the problem. No teaching or learning takes place. At best, the
>> parents contribute to the chaos by sporadically screaming "If you
>> don't stop that I'm going to smack the hell out of you."
>
> Or worse yet, scream "Coulten, don't do that! Coulten, don't do
> that!" 50 million times.
> -L.
I went to lunch with a co-worker who had the day off, this must have been 27
years ago. She brought her 2-year-old son. I spent my lunch hour listening
to her yell "Gary, quit!" at the child while he dipped french fries in
ketchup and threw them at me and giggled. I had to go back to work with
ketchup on my blouse and skirt! I wanted to smack the hell out her (and the
kid). Never went to lunch with her and the kidling again.

Jill

-L. wrote:
> Vox Humana wrote:
>> Well, I don't think much learning takes place when little Couten and
>> Paige are body surfing down the cereal isle while mom in on the cell
>> phone blocking the dairy case halfway across the store. Therein
>> lies the problem. No teaching or learning takes place. At best, the
>> parents contribute to the chaos by sporadically screaming "If you
>> don't stop that I'm going to smack the hell out of you."
>
> Or worse yet, scream "Coulten, don't do that! Coulten, don't do
> that!" 50 million times.
> -L.
I went to lunch with a co-worker who had the day off, this must have been 27
years ago. She brought her 2-year-old son. I spent my lunch hour listening
to her yell "Gary, quit!" at the child while he dipped french fries in
ketchup and threw them at me and giggled. I had to go back to work with
ketchup on my blouse and skirt! I wanted to smack the hell out her (and the
kid). Never went to lunch with her and the kidling again.

Jill

On 20 Jan 2005 12:08:11 -0800, "-L." > wrote:


>Good for you. I saw someone else do something similar in the grocery
>store once - she had two boys about 6 and 7 and a girl about 4. The
>boys went and got onto one of the "car" carts, and the little girl was
>supposed to ride inside the cart - well, she was having no part of it
>and putting up a fuss. Her Mom told her to cool it and if she couldn't
>get herself under control they would leave - the girl continued to
>squall, Mom took all three by the hand and marched them out to the car.

I had a friend tell me about something she witnessed at the grocery store.
A mom and kid shopping. Kid starts to throw a tantrum, screaming, on her
back, flailing limbs, 'cos she couldn't have something. The mom watches
this for a moment then leans down and says loudly, "I'LL BE OVER BY THE
VEGETABLES" and walks away, doing that thing moms do where they keep an eye
on you even if they look like they're ignoring you.

A moment or two later she realizes her audience isn't impressed and she
gets up and runs after her mom.

--
Siobhan Perricone
Humans wrote the bible,
God wrote the rocks
-- Word of God by Kathy Mar

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:04:53 -0500, " BOB" > wrote:

>Vox Humana wrote:
>> "-L." > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>
>> . My favorite thing to do is walk by an ill-behaved
>>> child in the grocery store and frown disapprovingly at
>>> them. Usually shuts them up and/or scares the shit out
>>> of them.
>>
>> Oh, I thought I was the only one who did that. It is
>> great fun.
>
>Make that 3 of us. It usually shuts the little bugger up for a little
>while, too.

I've gotta try that. I have a glare that will remove paint from a car.

Carol
--
"Years ago my mother used to say to me... She'd say,
'In this world Elwood, you must be oh-so smart or oh-so pleasant.'
Well, for years I was smart.... I recommend pleasant. You may quote me."

*James Stewart* in the 1950 movie, _Harvey_

It's nice to see such a child-loving group of people but I think
children cannot even begin to compete with cell-phones.

Childrend cry - it develops their lungs and prepares them for their
future careers. A mon struggling to keep 3 kids under control while
trying to find food for 5 on a $30 budget is cute and it will never
annoy me. If these kinds of things annoy you I would probably say
"Don't get on any flights headed to Orlando, instead fly to Atlanta and
then drive South."

BUT... the bozo with the cell phone blocking the isle with a cart while
simultaneously talking to his buddy and trying to pick a bottle of
French-sounding wine for under $5/bottle that will impress his
girlfriend (who at the very same moment is probably trying to pick a
top for under $10 at the GAP while talking to her cousin on the cell) -
THAT"S ANNOYING

"Fifo" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> It's nice to see such a child-loving group of people but I think
> children cannot even begin to compete with cell-phones.
>
> Childrend cry - it develops their lungs and prepares them for their
> future careers. A mon struggling to keep 3 kids under control while
> trying to find food for 5 on a $30 budget is cute and it will never
> annoy me. If these kinds of things annoy you I would probably say
> "Don't get on any flights headed to Orlando, instead fly to Atlanta and
> then drive South."
>
> BUT... the bozo with the cell phone blocking the isle with a cart while
> simultaneously talking to his buddy and trying to pick a bottle of
> French-sounding wine for under $5/bottle that will impress his
> girlfriend (who at the very same moment is probably trying to pick a
> top for under $10 at the GAP while talking to her cousin on the cell) -
> THAT"S ANNOYING

In my area, the parents ARE on the cell phones while the kids are amusing
themselves unattended. As for the crying, they can do that at home. If the
mother is buying food for a family of five that means there is father in the
picture. If the kids aren't able to be civil in a supermarket, then either
the mother or father needs to stay home with the kids while the other parent
shops. That seems like a kindness that the father could bestow on the
mother and would be better for the kids, too. A win-win situation all
around. I find that the people with the kids are likely to have their carts
heaped with convenience foods, snacks, mixes, and other high priced or
nutritionally bankrupt foods which indicates to me that money isn't an
issue.

"Fifo" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> It's nice to see such a child-loving group of people but I think
> children cannot even begin to compete with cell-phones.
>
> Childrend cry - it develops their lungs and prepares them for their
> future careers. A mon struggling to keep 3 kids under control while
> trying to find food for 5 on a $30 budget is cute and it will never
> annoy me. If these kinds of things annoy you I would probably say
> "Don't get on any flights headed to Orlando, instead fly to Atlanta and
> then drive South."
>
> BUT... the bozo with the cell phone blocking the isle with a cart while
> simultaneously talking to his buddy and trying to pick a bottle of
> French-sounding wine for under $5/bottle that will impress his
> girlfriend (who at the very same moment is probably trying to pick a
> top for under $10 at the GAP while talking to her cousin on the cell) -
> THAT"S ANNOYING

In my area, the parents ARE on the cell phones while the kids are amusing
themselves unattended. As for the crying, they can do that at home. If the
mother is buying food for a family of five that means there is father in the
picture. If the kids aren't able to be civil in a supermarket, then either
the mother or father needs to stay home with the kids while the other parent
shops. That seems like a kindness that the father could bestow on the
mother and would be better for the kids, too. A win-win situation all
around. I find that the people with the kids are likely to have their carts
heaped with convenience foods, snacks, mixes, and other high priced or
nutritionally bankrupt foods which indicates to me that money isn't an
issue.

Wow... well.. people with families can be annoying which is why some
people prefer to have dogs (sometimes cats). They tend to be well
behaved and you can always leash them or leave them at home. They also
seem to be easier to control and provide companionship when noone else
will.

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 04:06:48 GMT, Puester >
wrote:

>Sounds as though we're the same generation, but if you shopped A&P you
>didn't get S&H Green stamps, you got Plaid Stamps, IIRC, A&P's own
>brand. They weren't around for long because Green Stamps were much
>more commonly used by more merchants.
>
OMG, I haven't thought about Green Stamps (S & H Green Stamps, IIRC)
in years. I do recall my mother sitting one of us sibs down from time
to time with a passle of stamps to lick and put into a paper booklet.
When full, you could trade it in for *stuff*. I also recall being in
the checkout when someone, usually a guy, would offer his Green Stamps
to us b/c he didn't collect them. You'd have thought my mother had won
the lottery!

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA


"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:20:33 -0500, "Virginia Tadrzynski"
> wrote:

>The smoker who pops the butt out the window also doesn't use the ashtray in
>the car either.....says 'this way no one will know that I smoke in the
>car'......Horsecrap.......it's on their breath, in their hair, on their
>clothing so of course it is in the car even if they don't smoke while
>driving and oh so smuggly pop the butt out the window.
>-Ginny
>(who knows too many people who claim this is the reason they do it)

The DH smokes, Ginny, much to my chagrin. That said, I had a visit
with a neurosurgeon about my back (spinal stenosis and a misaligned
disk, thanks to a b*stard from Texas who knocked me halfway down
Copper Mountain skiing a few years ago - could have read the name,
"Rossignol" in the bruise on my back). I'm about to start physical
therapy prepatory to back surgery and he cautioned me about being
around smokers. The DH, who was along for the visit (I didn't want to
have to relay the conversation, 50% of which I'd likely relay
sideways), volunteered that he didn't smoke in the house or around me.
The doc was unimpressed and said I was still getting second hand smoke
from his clothes, his hair, his lungs and that the two worst
candidates for this type of surgery are diabetics and smokers.

I can understand, actually, as the DH doesn't hang his jackets or
coats in the hall closet b/c they stink up all of my jackets and coats
and there is *nothing* you can do to air them out except send them to
the cleaners.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA


"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:43:35 -0800, Terry Pulliam Burd
> wrote:

>OMG, I haven't thought about Green Stamps (S & H Green Stamps, IIRC)
>in years.

http://www.greenpoints.com/account/act_default.asp

Carol
--
"Years ago my mother used to say to me... She'd say,
'In this world Elwood, you must be oh-so smart or oh-so pleasant.'
Well, for years I was smart.... I recommend pleasant. You may quote me."

*James Stewart* in the 1950 movie, _Harvey_