So, a friend of mine gave me a dead duck a couple of weeks ago. His
uncle shot it. It was frozen and currently is housed in my freezer ... a
dead duck morgue, for the moment.

I had wild duck a couple of decades ago and it was simply awful. Gamey
and so tough I almost lost teeth in it.

I'm thinking of using it in Gumbo .... seems safer than trying to roast
it (which is what I did with the last one). Any tips re. preparation or
marinades to get shed of the gamey flavor and soften this dead bird up a
bit?

Your only friend,
Dave W.

--
Living in the Ozarks
For email, edu will do.

During times of universal deceit, telling the truth
becomes a revolutionary act. - George Orwell, (1903-1950)

"Dave W." wrote in message
...

> I had wild duck a couple of decades ago and it was simply awful. Gamey
> and so tough I almost lost teeth in it.
>
> I'm thinking of using it in Gumbo .... seems safer than trying to roast
> it (which is what I did with the last one). Any tips re. preparation or
> marinades to get shed of the gamey flavor and soften this dead bird up a
> bit?

Gumbo is probably a good choice. I made some duck and andouille gumbo this
past weekend it wasn't too bad. I used store bought duck. With all of the
other flavors in gumbo I wouldn't think that the gaminess of the duck would
be too over powering. I wouldn't marinate it.

I browned the duck (I just used breasts) before making the gumbo and used
the drippings/fat in the roux.

The gumbo I made was a result of reading a bunch of different recipes and
winging it. This recipe below was one of those that read. The gumbo tasted
an awful lot better the second day than it did on the day I made it. Don't
forget to make a nice dark roux.

-Mike

http://foodfest.neworleans.com/rec_inv.php?RESID=333

Ingredients

1 1/4 cup vegetable oil (I used all the duck fat I had and filled out the
rest with veg. oil)

2 cups flour

1 cup chopped green peppers

1 cup chopped onions

1 cup chopped celery

1 1/2 gallons rich chicken stock

1 lb. cooked chicken (of course, I used duck)

1 lb. andouille sausage, sliced

1 tsp. chopped garlic

4 bay leaves

1 tsp. dried thyme

2 Tbs. Louisiana hot sauce

1 Tbs. file powder

1/2 cup chopped green onions





1. In a large, heavy Dutch oven, heat oil over high heat until it almost
begins to smoke. Add flour and stir well to make a roux. Cook, stirring
constantly until roux is a nutty brown color, then lower heat.

2. Add onions, celery, and peppers. Cook in roux for five minutes, until
onions begin to brown.

3. Add chicken stock, garlic, bay leaves, and thyme. Simmer 15-20 minutes.

4. Cut chicken meat and andouille into bite-size pieces and add to pot.
Simmer.another 20 minutes.

5. Add hot sauce and green onions, and adjust seasonings with salt and
pepper as needed. File can be added in the kitchen, or dusted lightly on the
gumbo at the table. Serve with boiled long-grain rice.



Serves about 12.

"Lucretia Borgia" > wrote in message
...
> It would probably roast nicely and be delicious. Perhaps the one you
> had decades ago was too recently killed. A wild duck should hang to
> age the meat in a cool place such as a basement. Preferably, still
> with feathers on. Nice cool basement, I would give it about a week.
> ...
> Sheena

I've always been confused about hanging meat. Food safety purists say you
never let raw meat thaw on the counter and keep it refrigerated or frozen
when it's not above ... what was it? ...140 degrees? Something like that. So
can anyone explain why the aging of meat is a good thing and not a cardinal
sin against food safety?

Kathy

In article >,
Lucretia Borgia > wrote:

<snip>
> >I'm thinking of using it in Gumbo .... seems safer than trying to roast
> >it (which is what I did with the last one). Any tips re. preparation or
> >marinades to get shed of the gamey flavor and soften this dead bird up a
> >bit?
> >
> >Your only friend,
> >Dave W.
>
> It would probably roast nicely and be delicious. Perhaps the one you
> had decades ago was too recently killed. A wild duck should hang to
> age the meat in a cool place such as a basement. Preferably, still
> with feathers on. Nice cool basement, I would give it about a week.
>
> Place it on a rack, pierce the breast area as that is where all the
> fat is stored for swimming in frigid water and roast slowly.
> Delicious. I would consider making it into gumbo a real waste of
> gourmet food.
>
> Sheena

Thanks for the advice, Sheena, though I don't think I'll be able to age
my duck cause its been frozen for a couple of weeks and its feathers
have long since gone to wherever feathers go.

Its a small (1 1/4 lb) bird. I think I might thaw it, parboil it a bit
and try to get a taste of the bird before it goes into the gumbo. If it
seems palatable I may well try to bake it on a rack as per your
instructions. (I googled to an old recipe that suggested parboiling with
a carrot in the cavity before baking to reduce the wild duck's "fishy
flavor" ... I may try that.)

Regards,
Dave

--
Living in the Ozarks
For email, edu will do.

During times of universal deceit, telling the truth
becomes a revolutionary act. - George Orwell, (1903-1950)

"Kathy" > wrote in message
...
> "Lucretia Borgia" > wrote in message
> ...
>> It would probably roast nicely and be delicious. Perhaps the one you
>> had decades ago was too recently killed. A wild duck should hang to
>> age the meat in a cool place such as a basement. Preferably, still
>> with feathers on. Nice cool basement, I would give it about a week.
>> ...
>> Sheena
>
> I've always been confused about hanging meat. Food safety purists say you
> never let raw meat thaw on the counter and keep it refrigerated or frozen
> when it's not above ... what was it? ...140 degrees? Something like that.
> So
> can anyone explain why the aging of meat is a good thing and not a
> cardinal
> sin against food safety?
>
> Kathy
>
>

Your phrase "food safety pursists" says it all. Some people are so worried
about spoilage that they go to extreme lengths and take actions that do not
increase their real safety (although they do increase their perceived
safety). These are the worry-warts who will not let a casserole sit and cool
on the counter - it has to go in the fridge 2 milliseconds after it comes
out of the oven. The one thing all these people have in commn is a lack of
understanding of bacterial, how they grow, and when they can be dangerous.
You cannot really blame them - many authorities go overboard because they
know that many people will not follow their advice exactly, so they err on
the side of safety.

BTW, aging is not about bacterial growth. During aging the natural enzymes
that are present in the meat slowly change the composition, making it more
tender and flovorful.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

In article >,
"Dave W." > wrote:

> So, a friend of mine gave me a dead duck a couple of weeks ago. His
> uncle shot it. It was frozen and currently is housed in my freezer ... a
> dead duck morgue, for the moment.
>
> I had wild duck a couple of decades ago and it was simply awful. Gamey
> and so tough I almost lost teeth in it.
>
> I'm thinking of using it in Gumbo .... seems safer than trying to roast
> it (which is what I did with the last one). Any tips re. preparation or
> marinades to get shed of the gamey flavor and soften this dead bird up a
> bit?
>
> Your only friend,
> Dave W.

I cut the last one I did up and braised it in the dutch oven with LOTS
of garlic and fresh herbs, especially rosemary. Also added thyme and
some mexican oregano.

Took care of any gaminess and slow braising will tenderize just about
anything. ;-) Also added fresh chopped onions, large chunks of carrots
and a can of water chestnuts. (spuds are out since we are low carbing).

Kat
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

In article > ,
"Peter Aitken" > wrote:

> "Kathy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Lucretia Borgia" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> It would probably roast nicely and be delicious. Perhaps the one you
> >> had decades ago was too recently killed. A wild duck should hang to
> >> age the meat in a cool place such as a basement. Preferably, still
> >> with feathers on. Nice cool basement, I would give it about a week.
> >> ...
> >> Sheena
> >
> > I've always been confused about hanging meat. Food safety purists say you
> > never let raw meat thaw on the counter and keep it refrigerated or frozen
> > when it's not above ... what was it? ...140 degrees? Something like that.
> > So
> > can anyone explain why the aging of meat is a good thing and not a
> > cardinal
> > sin against food safety?
> >
> > Kathy
> >
> >
>
> Your phrase "food safety pursists" says it all. Some people are so worried
> about spoilage that they go to extreme lengths and take actions that do not
> increase their real safety (although they do increase their perceived
> safety). These are the worry-warts who will not let a casserole sit and cool
> on the counter - it has to go in the fridge 2 milliseconds after it comes
> out of the oven. The one thing all these people have in commn is a lack of
> understanding of bacterial, how they grow, and when they can be dangerous.
> You cannot really blame them - many authorities go overboard because they
> know that many people will not follow their advice exactly, so they err on
> the side of safety.
>
> BTW, aging is not about bacterial growth. During aging the natural enzymes
> that are present in the meat slowly change the composition, making it more
> tender and flovorful.

Yeah, but if you hang up a WHOLE dead bird, don't the gut flora also
start the rotting process?

Hang it up for a week in the basement? EWwwww!!! (PU!)
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

In article >,
Lucretia Borgia > wrote:

> >In article > ,
> > "Peter Aitken" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Kathy" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > "Lucretia Borgia" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >> It would probably roast nicely and be delicious. Perhaps the one you
> >> >> had decades ago was too recently killed. A wild duck should hang to
> >> >> age the meat in a cool place such as a basement. Preferably, still
> >> >> with feathers on. Nice cool basement, I would give it about a week.
> >> >> ...
> >> >> Sheena
> >> >
> >> > I've always been confused about hanging meat. Food safety purists say
> >> > you
> >> > never let raw meat thaw on the counter and keep it refrigerated or
> >> > frozen
> >> > when it's not above ... what was it? ...140 degrees? Something like
> >> > that.
> >> > So
> >> > can anyone explain why the aging of meat is a good thing and not a
> >> > cardinal
> >> > sin against food safety?
> >> >
> >> > Kathy
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Your phrase "food safety pursists" says it all. Some people are so worried
> >> about spoilage that they go to extreme lengths and take actions that do
> >> not
> >> increase their real safety (although they do increase their perceived
> >> safety). These are the worry-warts who will not let a casserole sit and
> >> cool
> >> on the counter - it has to go in the fridge 2 milliseconds after it comes
> >> out of the oven. The one thing all these people have in commn is a lack of
> >> understanding of bacterial, how they grow, and when they can be dangerous.
> >> You cannot really blame them - many authorities go overboard because they
> >> know that many people will not follow their advice exactly, so they err on
> >> the side of safety.
> >>
> >> BTW, aging is not about bacterial growth. During aging the natural enzymes
> >> that are present in the meat slowly change the composition, making it more
> >> tender and flovorful.
> >
> >Yeah, but if you hang up a WHOLE dead bird, don't the gut flora also
> >start the rotting process?
> >
> >Hang it up for a week in the basement? EWwwww!!! (PU!)
>
> That just shows you have never tried the method.
>
> Aren't you the person who cooked it to smithereens to tenderize it and
> added all sorts of unnatural things to make it taste of something
> else? None of which was necessary if properly aged.

That's only wild duck, and it was delicious... :-)
You have a problem with cooking with fresh herbs?????

How boring!

Grocery store ducks are grain-fed, young, and tender.
Those just get roasted with a little bit of lemon pepper and butter.
Domestic, young ducklings are fabulous all by themselves......
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell--you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

I don't think duck needs aging.

Karen

Yeah, I don't understand trying to cover the "gaminess" at all. If it
weren't for that flavor, you could shop for the dinner at Safeway.
Karen

Karen wrote:

> Yeah, I don't understand trying to cover the "gaminess" at all. If it
> weren't for that flavor, you could shop for the dinner at Safeway.

I don't understand the gaminess thing to begin with. I had a friend who
used to like to go hunting with her husband, even on her own sometimes.
She kept hoping to get a deer or a turkey. I don't know what she would
have done with any game she got. She wasn't much of a cook at the best of
times. I once suggested they come over to share leg of lamb with us but
she didn't like lamb. She said it tasted too gamy.

No hanging.
I have cooked dozens of wild duck this way.
Wash, inside and out, with hot water. Insert into cavity onion wedges,
orange wedges and celery. (this is not meant to be eaten, throw away
before eating duck.)Prick breast skin of duck 3 or 4 times. Roast
slowly.

Nancree

Katra wrote:
> In article
> > ,
> "Peter Aitken" > wrote:
>
>> These are the worry-warts who will
>> not let a casserole sit and cool on the counter - it has
>> to go in the fridge 2 milliseconds after it comes out of
>> the oven. The one thing all these people have in commn
>> is a lack of understanding of bacterial, how they grow,
>> and when they can be dangerous. You cannot really blame
>> them - many authorities go overboard because they know
>> that many people will not follow their advice exactly,
>> so they err on the side of safety.
>>
>> BTW, aging is not about bacterial growth. During aging
>> the natural enzymes that are present in the meat slowly
>> change the composition, making it more tender and
>> flovorful.
>
> Yeah, but if you hang up a WHOLE dead bird, don't the gut
> flora also start the rotting process?
>
> Hang it up for a week in the basement? EWwwww!!! (PU!)

Think farther north than you or I. Think those places that have their
basement at temperatures that we have in the refrigerator. Unless they
have heated basements, there are many of them right now. You could age a
duck in a second refrigerator that never gets opened, not your every-day
one. I have friends (in Florida) that have a second or third
refrigeratoe that is used only for aging meats, though it's usually for
beef and not poultry. Search for wet aging of meats. It can be done at
home, but you really have to be careful.

BOB

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:47:59 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> wrote:

>"Kathy" > wrote in message
...
>> "Lucretia Borgia" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> It would probably roast nicely and be delicious. Perhaps the one you
>>> had decades ago was too recently killed. A wild duck should hang to
>>> age the meat in a cool place such as a basement. Preferably, still
>>> with feathers on. Nice cool basement, I would give it about a week.
>>> ...
>>> Sheena
>>
>> I've always been confused about hanging meat. Food safety purists say you
>> never let raw meat thaw on the counter and keep it refrigerated or frozen
>> when it's not above ... what was it? ...140 degrees? Something like that.
>> So
>> can anyone explain why the aging of meat is a good thing and not a
>> cardinal
>> sin against food safety?
>>
>> Kathy
>>
>>
>
>Your phrase "food safety pursists" says it all. Some people are so worried
>about spoilage that they go to extreme lengths and take actions that do not
>increase their real safety (although they do increase their perceived
>safety). These are the worry-warts who will not let a casserole sit and cool
>on the counter - it has to go in the fridge 2 milliseconds after it comes
>out of the oven. The one thing all these people have in commn is a lack of
>understanding of bacterial, how they grow, and when they can be dangerous.
>You cannot really blame them - many authorities go overboard because they
>know that many people will not follow their advice exactly, so they err on
>the side of safety.
>
>BTW, aging is not about bacterial growth. During aging the natural enzymes
>that are present in the meat slowly change the composition, making it more
>tender and flovorful.

Thank you, Peter. Can you give a reference that will explain hanging
procedures without scaremongering? Would you do it in a frost-free
refridgerator? I have done curing of fish and duck breasts without
problems, but never hung a duck, or even part of one, without packing
it in a cure (salt/sugar mix).

I can get lamb from local farmers that I would like to dry age, if I
knew how to do it.

Would you deliberately put a benign mold on it?



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Be careful. The toe you stepped on yesterday may be connected to the ass you have to kiss today." --Former mayor Ciancia

In article <QDOHd.82814$Jk5.65262@lakeread01>,
"Mike Pearce" > wrote:

> "Dave W." wrote in message
> ...
>
> > I had wild duck a couple of decades ago and it was simply awful. Gamey
> > and so tough I almost lost teeth in it.
> >
> > I'm thinking of using it in Gumbo .... seems safer than trying to roast
> > it (which is what I did with the last one). Any tips re. preparation or
> > marinades to get shed of the gamey flavor and soften this dead bird up a
> > bit?
>
> Gumbo is probably a good choice. I made some duck and andouille gumbo this
> past weekend it wasn't too bad. I used store bought duck. With all of the
> other flavors in gumbo I wouldn't think that the gaminess of the duck would
> be too over powering. I wouldn't marinate it.
>
All right! I got the duck and I got the andouille and I only wish I had
picked up some tasso when we drove up through Louisiana last week. But
it was a Sunday and I think the grocery folks were at Mass (those
Catholics!).

> I browned the duck (I just used breasts) before making the gumbo and used
> the drippings/fat in the roux.
>
> The gumbo I made was a result of reading a bunch of different recipes and
> winging it. This recipe below was one of those that read. The gumbo tasted
> an awful lot better the second day than it did on the day I made it. Don't
> forget to make a nice dark roux.
>
> -Mike
>
> http://foodfest.neworleans.com/rec_inv.php?RESID=333
>
> Ingredients
>
> 1 1/4 cup vegetable oil (I used all the duck fat I had and filled out the
> rest with veg. oil)
>
> 2 cups flour
>
> 1 cup chopped green peppers
>
> 1 cup chopped onions
>
> 1 cup chopped celery
>
> 1 1/2 gallons rich chicken stock
>
> 1 lb. cooked chicken (of course, I used duck)
>
> 1 lb. andouille sausage, sliced
>
> 1 tsp. chopped garlic
>
> 4 bay leaves
>
> 1 tsp. dried thyme
>
> 2 Tbs. Louisiana hot sauce
>
> 1 Tbs. file powder
>
> 1/2 cup chopped green onions
>
> 1. In a large, heavy Dutch oven, heat oil over high heat until it almost
> begins to smoke. Add flour and stir well to make a roux. Cook, stirring
> constantly until roux is a nutty brown color, then lower heat.
>
Oh, yeah. My roux is dark brown. Like beef gravy. Takes me a half hour
to 45 min to get it there. If distracted, I burn it and have to start
from scratch.

> 2. Add onions, celery, and peppers. Cook in roux for five minutes, until
> onions begin to brown.
>
> 3. Add chicken stock, garlic, bay leaves, and thyme. Simmer 15-20 minutes.
>
> 4. Cut chicken meat and andouille into bite-size pieces and add to pot.
> Simmer.another 20 minutes.
>
> 5. Add hot sauce and green onions, and adjust seasonings with salt and
> pepper as needed. File can be added in the kitchen, or dusted lightly on the
> gumbo at the table. Serve with boiled long-grain rice.
>
Sounds great and very close to my standard Gumbo ... except for the lack
of Okra. I always put Okra in Gumbo .... but I'm an old German. What
do I know?

Thanks Mike!

Dave W.

--
Living in the Ozarks
For email, edu will do.

During times of universal deceit, telling the truth
becomes a revolutionary act. - George Orwell, (1903-1950)

"Dave W." wrote in message
...
> "Mike Pearce" wrote:
>
>>
>> Gumbo is probably a good choice. I made some duck and andouille gumbo
>> this
>> past weekend it wasn't too bad. I used store bought duck. With all of the
>> other flavors in gumbo I wouldn't think that the gaminess of the duck
>> would
>> be too over powering. I wouldn't marinate it.
>>
> All right! I got the duck and I got the andouille and I only wish I had
> picked up some tasso when we drove up through Louisiana last week. But
> it was a Sunday and I think the grocery folks were at Mass (those
> Catholics!)

You just didn't look hard enough. Every grocery store around here has tasso
and most are open on Sundays. I've got some tasso in my refrigerator. You
are welcome to it. Just come on by.

>> http://foodfest.neworleans.com/rec_inv.php?RESID=333

<Snip Gumbo Recipe>

> Sounds great and very close to my standard Gumbo ... except for the lack
> of Okra. I always put Okra in Gumbo .... but I'm an old German. What
> do I know?
>
> Thanks Mike!
>
> Dave W.

You're welcome. Okra or no okra is one of the great gumbo debates. I'm in
the no okra camp. One thing is that if you use okra you can't use file or
you'll never be allowed in Louisiana again. People might disagree as to
whether gumbo should have okra or file but almost everyone agrees they
should never be used together.

-Mike

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:13:03 GMT, Lucretia Borgia
> wrote:

> >In article > ,
> > "Peter Aitken" > wrote:
> >
> >Yeah, but if you hang up a WHOLE dead bird, don't the gut flora also
> >start the rotting process?
> >
> >Hang it up for a week in the basement? EWwwww!!! (PU!)
>
> That just shows you have never tried the method.
>
> Aren't you the person who cooked it to smithereens to tenderize it and
> added all sorts of unnatural things to make it taste of something
> else? None of which was necessary if properly aged.

Aging includes mold that is cut off... how much moldy meat
can you cut off an aged duck?

sf

Lucretia Borgia wrote:
> >I don't think duck needs aging.
> >
> >Karen
>
> Wild duck does. The meat you buy in a stupidmarket has been aged
> too. For the same reasons.
>
> Sheena

Well, I disagree.

My exhusband went hunting a lot for pheasant, duck, deer, elk and the
dang duck wasn't aged.

I recall the best duck I ever had was when I went out with him in
Marysville where he and his friend killed a duck, and he breasted it
out and cooked it very quickly in a pan with a little oil and s&p about
5 minutes later. It was as tender and delicious as anything I've ever
had in my life.

Did not resemble grocery store duck one iota, but we weren't talking
about that.

Karen