Does it make any difference for a stew or braise if you simmer on the
stovetop or in the oven (assuming that you can simmer on the stovetop)?

Which one is more energy-efficient?
--

================================================== =============
Regards

Louis Cohen

"Yes, yes, I will desalinate you, you grande morue!"

Émile Zola, Assommoir 1877

Louis Cohen wrote:
> Does it make any difference for a stew or braise if you simmer on the
> stovetop or in the oven (assuming that you can simmer on the stovetop)?

You are more likely to burn it on the stovetop.

> Which one is more energy-efficient?

In the winter, it doesn't make any difference because the "wasted"
energy helps heat your house -- probably more efficiently than your furnace.

Bob

In article >,
Louis Cohen > wrote:

> Does it make any difference for a stew or braise if you simmer on the
> stovetop or in the oven (assuming that you can simmer on the stovetop)?
>
> Which one is more energy-efficient?

To me, simmering means on the stovetop. Stovetop cooking is also always
(?) more energy efficient.

Priscilla

--
"It is very, very dangerous to treat any human, lowest
of the low even, with contempt and arrogant whatever.
The Lord takes this kind of treatment very, very personal."
- QBaal in newsgroup alt.religion.christian.episcopal

In article >,
zxcvbob > wrote:

> Louis Cohen wrote:
> > Which one is more energy-efficient?
>
> In the winter, it doesn't make any difference because the "wasted"
> energy helps heat your house -- probably more efficiently than your furnace.

You must have a much more poorly insulated oven than I do. I don't lose
much heat when it's on and its door is shut.

Priscilla

--
"It is very, very dangerous to treat any human, lowest
of the low even, with contempt and arrogant whatever.
The Lord takes this kind of treatment very, very personal."
- QBaal in newsgroup alt.religion.christian.episcopal

Priscilla Ballou wrote:
> In article >,
> zxcvbob > wrote:
>
>
>>Louis Cohen wrote:
>>
>>>Which one is more energy-efficient?
>>
>>In the winter, it doesn't make any difference because the "wasted"
>>energy helps heat your house -- probably more efficiently than your furnace.
>
>
> You must have a much more poorly insulated oven than I do. I don't lose
> much heat when it's on and its door is shut.
>
> Priscilla
>


The point is whatever inefficiency you have using the oven instead of
the stovetop is made up by your furnace running less.

In the summer, the oven insulation makes a big difference in energy
efficiency. In the winter, it doesn't.

Bob

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:22:11 -0800, Louis Cohen
> wrote:

>Does it make any difference for a stew or braise if you simmer on the
>stovetop or in the oven (assuming that you can simmer on the stovetop)?

I've found that I get a much more intense, complex flavor from stews
and braises when done in the oven. I think it's because the heat
surrounds the food rather than perculates up from the bottom.

>Which one is more energy-efficient?

Don't know.

"zxcvbob" > wrote:
> Louis Cohen wrote:
>> Does it make any difference for a stew or braise if you simmer on the
>> stovetop or in the oven (assuming that you can simmer on the stovetop)?
>
> You are more likely to burn it on the stovetop.
>
>> Which one is more energy-efficient?
>
> In the winter, it doesn't make any difference because the "wasted" energy
> helps heat your house -- probably more efficiently than your furnace.

I totally agree with Bob's reasoning on this. But it does make a difference
where you live. I had a hard time explaining this concept to my father who
was living in Miami. He didn't need his house heated even in winter. On the
other hand, we've probably hit the high here today at 22 degrees F.

With regard to burning, on a stovetop, the heat is only being introduced
into the pot from the bottom. In the oven, it is coming from all around. It
is a lot more even. You have to do a lot less "watching" the pot with it in
the oven. In the extreme, on something like baked beans taking 6-8 hours,
you only have to look at it every couple of hours during the first part of
the cooking in the oven. That wouldn't be true on the stovetop (not that
you'd ever do baked beans on the stovetop).

"Louis Cohen" > wrote in message
news
> Does it make any difference for a stew or braise if you simmer on the
> stovetop or in the oven (assuming that you can simmer on the stovetop)?
>
> Which one is more energy-efficient?

We've always done stew on the stovetop in a good Dutch oven. If you are
using a regular pot you may have better luck in the oven for more even heat.

If you heat your house in the winter, efficiency is the same. any heat from
cooking just heats the house and eases the load on the heater. OTOH, if you
are running the AC, the oven may be a tad better.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

In > zxcvbob wrote:

> The point is whatever inefficiency you have using the oven instead of
> the stovetop is made up by your furnace running less.
>
> In the summer, the oven insulation makes a big difference in energy
> efficiency. In the winter, it doesn't.

I agree with the oven loss staying in the house really doesn't affect
efficiency, just transforms it. But in the summer we never use the oven.
It's outdoor bbq every day. I keep it in the garage and use it with the
overhead door open so rain is not a factor...


--
Cheers

Dennis

Remove 'Elle-Kabong' to reply

In article >,
zxcvbob > wrote:

> Priscilla Ballou wrote:
> > In article >,
> > zxcvbob > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Louis Cohen wrote:
> >>
> >>>Which one is more energy-efficient?
> >>
> >>In the winter, it doesn't make any difference because the "wasted"
> >>energy helps heat your house -- probably more efficiently than your furnace.
> >
> >
> > You must have a much more poorly insulated oven than I do. I don't lose
> > much heat when it's on and its door is shut.

> The point is whatever inefficiency you have using the oven instead of
> the stovetop is made up by your furnace running less.

But my furnace *doesn't* run less. There is little heat benefit from a
closed oven. Or at least my well-insulated oven.

> In the summer, the oven insulation makes a big difference in energy
> efficiency. In the winter, it doesn't.

I don't think you follow. Your point was that the extra fuel burned by
cooking in the oven would have a secondary effect of heating the house.
My point was that my oven is well insulated and most heat doesn't get
out of it to heat the house, so it's wasted.

Priscilla

--
"It is very, very dangerous to treat any human, lowest
of the low even, with contempt and arrogant whatever.
The Lord takes this kind of treatment very, very personal."
- QBaal in newsgroup alt.religion.christian.episcopal

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:44:25 GMT, Priscilla Ballou >
wrote:

>You must have a much more poorly insulated oven than I do. I don't lose
>much heat when it's on and its door is shut.

I have the oven from hell. The gas stove top is great (I've always used
electric), but the oven is horrible. Absolutely can't use it in the
summer.

Carol
--
"Years ago my mother used to say to me... She'd say,
'In this world Elwood, you must be oh-so smart or oh-so pleasant.'
Well, for years I was smart.... I recommend pleasant. You may quote me."

*James Stewart* in the 1950 movie, _Harvey_

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:49:28 -0600, zxcvbob
> wrote:

> The point is whatever inefficiency you have using the oven instead of
> the stovetop is made up by your furnace running less.

I thought you were talking about heat lost from the burner,
not the oven.

sf

"Priscilla Ballou" > wrote in message
> I don't think you follow. Your point was that the extra fuel burned by
> cooking in the oven would have a secondary effect of heating the house.
> My point was that my oven is well insulated and most heat doesn't get
> out of it to heat the house, so it's wasted.
>
> Priscilla

And just where does that heat go????? I don't care how well insulated your
oven its, any heat not used in the cooking process (absorbed by the food)
will leave the oven and go into the ambient air surrounding it. It is a law
of physics than cannot be changed. Does not matter if it is gas, electric,
or coal fired.

Your body is adding to the heat in the house. Lightbulbs do and even the
light they give off changes to heat energy. Anything in the confines of the
walls of your house that converts any form of energy to heat will make a
slightly less load on the central heater. Smoke a cigarette and it heats the
house. The computer terminal you are sitting at gives off heat. Your
refrigerator extracts heat from the hot food you put into it and then
transfers it to the room via the refrigeration system of two coils. Opening
the drapes to let the sunshine in brings with it radiant heat. (read about
greenhouse effect)

I did not make the laws of physics and neither you nor I can change them no
matter what your opinion is.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

"sf" > wrote in message
>
> I thought you were talking about heat lost from the burner,
> not the oven.
>
> sf

That heat is also added to the house heat. The source does not matter, if
it is not used for cooking, it is added to the heat in the house. In many
cases it is stored in your belongings as sensible heat.

Ed replied to Priscilla:

>> My point was that my oven is well insulated and most heat doesn't get
>> out of it to heat the house, so it's wasted.
>
> And just where does that heat go????? I don't care how well insulated
> your oven its, any heat not used in the cooking process (absorbed by the
> food) will leave the oven and go into the ambient air surrounding it. It
> is a law of physics than cannot be changed. Does not matter if it is gas,
> electric, or coal fired.

Right. But if the oven is well insulated, the heating element in the oven
will turn on fewer times while cooking is in progress, because less heat is
being lost to the outside, and the temperature inside the oven will remain
fairly constant. Yes, the oven will contribute *some* heat to the house
during that time, because the insulation isn't perfect. When the cooking is
DONE, the oven will contribute heat to the interior of the house, either at
a fast rate (if the oven door is left open) or at a slow rate (if the oven
door is left closed) until the outside and inside temperatures equalize (or
get so close as to make no difference).

Bob

Rodney Myrvaagnes writes:
>
Priscilla Ballou wrote:
>>zxcvbob wrote:
>>> Priscilla Ballou wrote:
>>> >zxcvbob wrote:
>>> >>Louis Cohen wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>>Which one is more energy-efficient?
>>> >>
>>> >>In the winter, it doesn't make any difference because the "wasted"
>>> >>energy helps heat your house -- probably more efficiently than your
>furnace.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > You must have a much more poorly insulated oven than I do. I don't lose
>>> > much heat when it's on and its door is shut.
>>
>>> The point is whatever inefficiency you have using the oven instead of
>>> the stovetop is made up by your furnace running less.

But with modern housing with central heating systems this will usually
contribute to higher energy costs, most espcially because most modern homes
have no kitchen door... with an open kitchen an over heated kitchen area will
fool the central heating thermostat into shutting down, causing the building's
perimeter structure to cool so much as to require more energy to reheat than
was gained from the oven being on... just like the heat loss from using a
fireplace (the immediate area near the fire is roasting and the rest of the
house is like an icebox). Of course if you live in a rustic cabin with only a
wood stove then disregard the preceding.

Continue...

>>But my furnace *doesn't* run less. There is little heat benefit from a
>>closed oven. Or at least my well-insulated oven.
>>
>>> In the summer, the oven insulation makes a big difference in energy
>>> efficiency. In the winter, it doesn't.
>>
>>I don't think you follow. Your point was that the extra fuel burned by
>>cooking in the oven would have a secondary effect of heating the house.
>>My point was that my oven is well insulated and most heat doesn't get
>>out of it to heat the house, so it's wasted.
>>
>No way, Priscilla. The heat can't disappear from the universe. Better
>insulation will slow the transfer, but it doesn't prevent it forever.
>Otherwise the oven would never cool. When it does cool, the heat is in
>the house. It either relieves the furnace or burdens the AC, depending
>on circumstances.

The heat transfer isn't through the oven's insulation (were that true the oven
would be a piece of crap), there's typically some small loss through the oven
itself (negligible), typically mostly at the door seal (fix it), but the vast
majority of heat escapes through the oven vent... in fact more heat escapes
from the oven vent than would be needed to keep a pot simmering on the stove
top, which is why before the advent of sealed burners many stoves vented
through one of the rear burners, the obvious spot to place ye olde stock pot.
And therein lies the reason(s) it's *always* more energy efficient to simmer on
the stove top.

Anyone living in a modern house with a central heating system who thinks
there's an energy savings from using the kitchen oven is fooling themselves...
not unless they seal off the rest of the house, have the oven on all the time,
and live huddled only in the immediate kitchen area (1850 Americana style).




---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

Hi,

In "Make It Italian", Nancy Barr offers that braising on the
stove or in the oven makes only a small difference. (paraphrasing)
In the oven is generally preferable because the heating is more even
but if the oven is already occupied by a couple loafs of bread baking
away, the stove top is quite usable, though the meat should be
checked and turned more frequently to avoid burning.

My preferance is the stove top because its easier to watch things.


Louis Cohen wrote:
> Does it make any difference for a stew or braise if you simmer on the

> stovetop or in the oven (assuming that you can simmer on the
stovetop)?
>
> Which one is more energy-efficient?
> --
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Regards
>
> Louis Cohen
>
> "Yes, yes, I will desalinate you, you grande morue!"
>=20
> =C9mile Zola, Assommoir 1877

"Priscilla Ballou" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> zxcvbob > wrote:
>
>> Louis Cohen wrote:
>> > Which one is more energy-efficient?
>>
>> In the winter, it doesn't make any difference because the "wasted"
>> energy helps heat your house -- probably more efficiently than your
>> furnace.
>
> You must have a much more poorly insulated oven than I do. I don't lose
> much heat when it's on and its door is shut.
>
> Priscilla

Here is what I do in my cold-cold kitchen. When I bake for a long time,
even if it is not bread on my stone, I sometimes put a stone in the oven, or
leave it there if it is already there, and while the food is cooking, the
stone is heating up, too --of course, scientists may say that it will take
longer to heat your oven, because you have to heat that cold stone as
well, -- but anyway, that's what I do, then when my baking is finished, I
leave the oven door open and let the heat from the stone radiate out into
the room until it is cool again.
Dee

"Rodney Myrvaagnes" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:19:41 GMT, Priscilla Ballou
> > wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> zxcvbob > wrote:
>>
>>> Priscilla Ballou wrote:
>>> > In article >,
>>> > zxcvbob > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>Louis Cohen wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>>Which one is more energy-efficient?
>>> >>
>>> >>In the winter, it doesn't make any difference because the "wasted"
>>> >>energy helps heat your house -- probably more efficiently than your
>>> >>furnace.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > You must have a much more poorly insulated oven than I do. I don't
>>> > lose
>>> > much heat when it's on and its door is shut.
>>
>>> The point is whatever inefficiency you have using the oven instead of
>>> the stovetop is made up by your furnace running less.
>>
>>But my furnace *doesn't* run less. There is little heat benefit from a
>>closed oven. Or at least my well-insulated oven.
>>
>>> In the summer, the oven insulation makes a big difference in energy
>>> efficiency. In the winter, it doesn't.
>>
>>I don't think you follow. Your point was that the extra fuel burned by
>>cooking in the oven would have a secondary effect of heating the house.
>>My point was that my oven is well insulated and most heat doesn't get
>>out of it to heat the house, so it's wasted.
>>
> No way, Priscilla. The heat can't disappear from the universe. Better
> insulation will slow the transfer, but it doesn't prevent it forever.
> Otherwise the oven would never cool. When it does cool, the heat is in
> the house. It either relieves the furnace or burdens the AC, depending
> on circumstances.
>
>
I thought ovens were vented to the outside, so the heat could go OUTSIDE; am
I wrong?
Dee

"PENMART01" > wrote in message
...

>
> Anyone living in a modern house with a central heating system who thinks
> there's an energy savings from using the kitchen oven is fooling
themselves...
> not unless they seal off the rest of the house, have the oven on all the
time,
> and live huddled only in the immediate kitchen area (1850 Americana
style).
>

> Sheldon
> ````````````

Like an Aga?

On 24 Jan 2005 08:46:59 -0800, "Meryl" > wrote:

>Hi,
>
>In "Make It Italian", Nancy Barr offers that braising on the
>stove or in the oven makes only a small difference. (paraphrasing)
>In the oven is generally preferable because the heating is more even
>but if the oven is already occupied by a couple loafs of bread baking
>away, the stove top is quite usable, though the meat should be
>checked and turned more frequently to avoid burning.
>
>My preferance is the stove top because its easier to watch things.
>
>
My wife and I both braise lamb shanks on the top in a Calphalon saute
pan, the kind with the split handle and transparent lid. It never
needs turning or checking on the lowest heat.

Without a thick aluminum or copper bottom it wouldn't work. And,
without the tight cover, it would be necessary to dribble water in
after an hour or so.



Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

"If any question why we died
Tell them, because our fathers lied." --Kipling

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:57:26 -0500, "Dee Randall"
<deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote:

>
>"Rodney Myrvaagnes" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:19:41 GMT, Priscilla Ballou
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> zxcvbob > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Priscilla Ballou wrote:
>>>> > In article >,
>>>> > zxcvbob > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>Louis Cohen wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>Which one is more energy-efficient?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>In the winter, it doesn't make any difference because the "wasted"
>>>> >>energy helps heat your house -- probably more efficiently than your
>>>> >>furnace.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > You must have a much more poorly insulated oven than I do. I don't
>>>> > lose
>>>> > much heat when it's on and its door is shut.
>>>
>>>> The point is whatever inefficiency you have using the oven instead of
>>>> the stovetop is made up by your furnace running less.
>>>
>>>But my furnace *doesn't* run less. There is little heat benefit from a
>>>closed oven. Or at least my well-insulated oven.
>>>
>>>> In the summer, the oven insulation makes a big difference in energy
>>>> efficiency. In the winter, it doesn't.
>>>
>>>I don't think you follow. Your point was that the extra fuel burned by
>>>cooking in the oven would have a secondary effect of heating the house.
>>>My point was that my oven is well insulated and most heat doesn't get
>>>out of it to heat the house, so it's wasted.
>>>
>> No way, Priscilla. The heat can't disappear from the universe. Better
>> insulation will slow the transfer, but it doesn't prevent it forever.
>> Otherwise the oven would never cool. When it does cool, the heat is in
>> the house. It either relieves the furnace or burdens the AC, depending
>> on circumstances.
>>
>>
>I thought ovens were vented to the outside, so the heat could go OUTSIDE; am
>I wrong?
>Dee
>
It could be done, especially in a single house. But I have never seen
a home oven that was.



Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

"If any question why we died
Tell them, because our fathers lied." --Kipling

Dee Randall wrote:
> "Rodney Myrvaagnes" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:19:41 GMT, Priscilla Ballou
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article >,
>>>zxcvbob > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Priscilla Ballou wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article >,
>>>>> zxcvbob > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Louis Cohen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Which one is more energy-efficient?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In the winter, it doesn't make any difference because the "wasted"
>>>>>>energy helps heat your house -- probably more efficiently than your
>>>>>>furnace.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You must have a much more poorly insulated oven than I do. I don't
>>>>>lose
>>>>>much heat when it's on and its door is shut.
>>>
>>>>The point is whatever inefficiency you have using the oven instead of
>>>>the stovetop is made up by your furnace running less.
>>>
>>>But my furnace *doesn't* run less. There is little heat benefit from a
>>>closed oven. Or at least my well-insulated oven.
>>>
>>>
>>>>In the summer, the oven insulation makes a big difference in energy
>>>>efficiency. In the winter, it doesn't.
>>>
>>>I don't think you follow. Your point was that the extra fuel burned by
>>>cooking in the oven would have a secondary effect of heating the house.
>>>My point was that my oven is well insulated and most heat doesn't get
>>>out of it to heat the house, so it's wasted.
>>>
>>
>>No way, Priscilla. The heat can't disappear from the universe. Better
>>insulation will slow the transfer, but it doesn't prevent it forever.
>>Otherwise the oven would never cool. When it does cool, the heat is in
>>the house. It either relieves the furnace or burdens the AC, depending
>>on circumstances.
>>
>>
>
> I thought ovens were vented to the outside, so the heat could go OUTSIDE; am
> I wrong?
> Dee
>
>


Ovens are unvented. (well, they are vented back into the house) In the
summer, if your vent hood actually is vented outside, run it on low
speed to send the oven heat outside. BTW, I love those hoods that
recirculate rather than venting outside -- they just blow the smoke back
in your face.

Bob

Dee Randall wrote:

> I thought ovens were vented to the outside, so the heat could go OUTSIDE; am
> I wrong?
>

Ovens are often vented somewhere on the front panel.

Louis Cohen wrote:
>
> Does it make any difference for a stew or braise if you simmer on the
> stovetop or in the oven (assuming that you can simmer on the stovetop)?
>
> Which one is more energy-efficient?

I don't know or care about the energy efficiency but lately
I've taken to doing things in the oven that are normally
done on top of the stove in order to avoid having grease
spatter over the top of the stove and having to clean it
up. I do almost all my browning in the oven rather than
in a skillet. Anything I feel will cook just as well in
the oven I now do in the ovens. Much less work in the
end.
Kate

--
Kate Connally
“If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.”
Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that smiles back,
Until you bite their heads off.”
What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about?

Most recipes tend to be very specific whether you need to finish the
stew in the oven or the stove-top. It probably depends on the amound of
liquid that's desirable, the type of meat and possibly some of the
other ingredients. More "liquidy" recipes are meant for the stove-top
while the more "meaty" ones for the oven (what a gross and vague
generalization). I guess you will have to tell us what kind of stew are
you making. Some stews are also meant for earthenware dishes which you
cannot put on the stovetop. Finally, I'll leave it up to the scientists
but it seems to me that using you kitchen appliances to heat up your
home is very inefficient in any form. Whatever heating you have in the
house will probably do a better\cheaper job. So if heat escapes from
the oven (say you leave the oven door open) it is not compensated by
the lower workload of the heater. Even as high as oil\gas prices are,
your heater is still much cheaper.

Kate Connally wrote:

> Louis Cohen wrote:
> >
> > Does it make any difference for a stew or braise if you simmer on the=

> > stovetop or in the oven (assuming that you can simmer on the stovetop=
)?
> >
> > Which one is more energy-efficient?
>
> I don't know or care about the energy efficiency but lately
> I've taken to doing things in the oven that are normally
> done on top of the stove in order to avoid having grease
> spatter over the top of the stove and having to clean it
> up. I do almost all my browning in the oven rather than
> in a skillet. Anything I feel will cook just as well in
> the oven I now do in the ovens. Much less work in the
> end.

I brown stewing meat and saut=E9 the onion, carrot, celery and mushrooms =
on top
of the stove in a large heavy bottom pot (Paderno), add the broth and
thicken it on the stove. Then it goes into the oven. I find it too hard t=
o
keep it as a nice simmer on the stove, and boiling makes for a tough stew=
=2E I
get great results in the oven.

Fifo wrote:

> Most recipes tend to be very specific whether you need to finish the
> stew in the oven or the stove-top. It probably depends on the amound of
> liquid that's desirable, the type of meat and possibly some of the
> other ingredients. More "liquidy" recipes are meant for the stove-top
> while the more "meaty" ones for the oven (what a gross and vague
> generalization).

Bear in mind that a lot of cook books are collections of recipes the author
<?> has compiled and may or may not have been kitchen tested. Even if
kitchen tested they may not have tried variations. I learned the fine art
of braising from my wife, and she learned it from her mother. They both
turned out lots of tasty braised dishes. They used the stove. I use the
oven. I find mine to be consistently more tender. And BTW... no matter
what a stew recipe says, they always taste better if you prepare them ahead
of time, let them sit for a while and then heat them up again to serve.

On Mon 24 Jan 2005 11:57:26a, Dee Randall wrote in rec.food.cooking:

>
> "Rodney Myrvaagnes" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:19:41 GMT, Priscilla Ballou
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>In article >, zxcvbob
> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Priscilla Ballou wrote:
>>>> > In article >, zxcvbob
>>>> > > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>Louis Cohen wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>Which one is more energy-efficient?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>In the winter, it doesn't make any difference because the "wasted"
>>>> >>energy helps heat your house -- probably more efficiently than your
>>>> >>furnace.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > You must have a much more poorly insulated oven than I do. I don't
>>>> > lose much heat when it's on and its door is shut.
>>>
>>>> The point is whatever inefficiency you have using the oven instead of
>>>> the stovetop is made up by your furnace running less.
>>>
>>>But my furnace *doesn't* run less. There is little heat benefit from a
>>>closed oven. Or at least my well-insulated oven.
>>>
>>>> In the summer, the oven insulation makes a big difference in energy
>>>> efficiency. In the winter, it doesn't.
>>>
>>>I don't think you follow. Your point was that the extra fuel burned by
>>>cooking in the oven would have a secondary effect of heating the house.
>>>My point was that my oven is well insulated and most heat doesn't get
>>>out of it to heat the house, so it's wasted.
>>>
>> No way, Priscilla. The heat can't disappear from the universe. Better
>> insulation will slow the transfer, but it doesn't prevent it forever.
>> Otherwise the oven would never cool. When it does cool, the heat is in
>> the house. It either relieves the furnace or burdens the AC, depending
>> on circumstances.
>>
>>
> I thought ovens were vented to the outside, so the heat could go
> OUTSIDE; am I wrong?
> Dee

Some built-in ovens are vented outside, especially gas-fired ovens, but
others are vented through the front of the housing into the room. Very few
free-standing ranges with ovens are vented outside. The AGA and some
others are, but they are in the minority.

Wayne

On Mon 24 Jan 2005 12:29:35p, Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> My wife and I both braise lamb shanks on the top in a Calphalon saute
> pan, the kind with the split handle and transparent lid. It never
> needs turning or checking on the lowest heat.
>
> Without a thick aluminum or copper bottom it wouldn't work. And,
> without the tight cover, it would be necessary to dribble water in
> after an hour or so.
>
> Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

Rodney, judging from other recipes and concepts you've posted here, I bet you
have a killer recipe for braised lamb shanks. Care to share?

Thanks,
Wayne

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 03:58:36 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
> wrote:

>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> >
> > I thought you were talking about heat lost from the burner,
> > not the oven.
> >
> > sf
>
> That heat is also added to the house heat. The source does not matter, if
> it is not used for cooking, it is added to the heat in the house. In many
> cases it is stored in your belongings as sensible heat.
>

My house isn't over heated the way a lot of them are, so I
welcome any escaping heat!


sf

On 24 Jan 2005 23:46:47 GMT, Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

>On Mon 24 Jan 2005 12:29:35p, Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>> My wife and I both braise lamb shanks on the top in a Calphalon saute
>> pan, the kind with the split handle and transparent lid. It never
>> needs turning or checking on the lowest heat.
>>
>> Without a thick aluminum or copper bottom it wouldn't work. And,
>> without the tight cover, it would be necessary to dribble water in
>> after an hour or so.
>>
>> Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a
>
>Rodney, judging from other recipes and concepts you've posted here, I bet you
>have a killer recipe for braised lamb shanks. Care to share?
>
>Thanks,
>Wayne

OK, but not original. This is from "Simple French Food" by Richard
Olney, Atheneum, 1974. my comments are in [ ].

Shanks with Garlic (for 4)

2 or 3 lbs lamb shanks, outside fat removed.
Salt
3 tbsp OO
15 to 20 cloves of garlic, unpeeled
A few tbsp water, 1/2 tsp finely crumbled mixed dried herbs [we
usually use fresh herbs, because that is what we usually have]

1/2 cup dry white wine

Pepper

Use, if possible, a heavy copper pan of just a size to hold the shanks
at their ease. [I take that to mean not touching each other] [I use a
Calphalon saute pan, because I don't have the money for a heavy copper
one]

It should have a tight-fitting lid. [this is important] Brown the
shanks, salted, lightly in the oil, toss in the garlic, and cook over
very low heat, covered, turning them occasionally, for about 1 1/2
hours, or longer to be very tender.

In heavy copper their natural juices will hold for about an hour==in
other metals , for a much shorter time. [ not true, aluminum works
fine if thick enough, we never have to add liquid.]

When all liquid has disappeared and they begin to sizzle in fat, add a
spoonful of water from time to time so that a film of liquid remains
always in the bottom of the pan. Sprinkle with the herbs after about
an hour's time.

As the meat approaches the desired tenderness, stop moistening with
water so that all liquid evaporates. When the meat hegins again to
sizzle in pure fat, remove it to a plate, pour off the fat, deglaze
with the white wine, scraping and stirring with a wooden spoon to
dissolve all caramelized adherences, put the juice and garlich through
a sieve to rid them of the garlic hulls, return to the pan, reduce the
liquid to the staccato bubbling stage, anf return the meat to the pan.
There should be only enough sauce to just coat the pieces. Grind over
pepper to taste.
*********************************end of olney

Whenb Barbara does this she usually cooks some beans (Navy beans,
perhaps) and puts them in the pan near the end. THey soak up some of
the fat (BAD BAD BAD).

This is easier to do than to type in. Please excuse typos.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Accordions don't play 'Lady of Spain.' People play 'Lady of Spain."

On Mon 24 Jan 2005 09:34:36p, Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On 24 Jan 2005 23:46:47 GMT, Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>>On Mon 24 Jan 2005 12:29:35p, Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote in
>>rec.food.cooking:
>>
>>> My wife and I both braise lamb shanks on the top in a Calphalon saute
>>> pan, the kind with the split handle and transparent lid. It never
>>> needs turning or checking on the lowest heat.
>>>
>>> Without a thick aluminum or copper bottom it wouldn't work. And,
>>> without the tight cover, it would be necessary to dribble water in
>>> after an hour or so.
>>>
>>> Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a
>>
>>Rodney, judging from other recipes and concepts you've posted here, I
>>bet you have a killer recipe for braised lamb shanks. Care to share?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Wayne
>
> OK, but not original. This is from "Simple French Food" by Richard
> Olney, Atheneum, 1974. my comments are in [ ].
>
> Shanks with Garlic (for 4)
>
> 2 or 3 lbs lamb shanks, outside fat removed.
> Salt
> 3 tbsp OO
> 15 to 20 cloves of garlic, unpeeled
> A few tbsp water, 1/2 tsp finely crumbled mixed dried herbs [we
> usually use fresh herbs, because that is what we usually have]
>
> 1/2 cup dry white wine
>
> Pepper
>
> Use, if possible, a heavy copper pan of just a size to hold the shanks
> at their ease. [I take that to mean not touching each other] [I use a
> Calphalon saute pan, because I don't have the money for a heavy copper
> one]
>
> It should have a tight-fitting lid. [this is important] Brown the
> shanks, salted, lightly in the oil, toss in the garlic, and cook over
> very low heat, covered, turning them occasionally, for about 1 1/2
> hours, or longer to be very tender.
>
> In heavy copper their natural juices will hold for about an hour==in
> other metals , for a much shorter time. [ not true, aluminum works
> fine if thick enough, we never have to add liquid.]
>
> When all liquid has disappeared and they begin to sizzle in fat, add a
> spoonful of water from time to time so that a film of liquid remains
> always in the bottom of the pan. Sprinkle with the herbs after about
> an hour's time.
>
> As the meat approaches the desired tenderness, stop moistening with
> water so that all liquid evaporates. When the meat hegins again to
> sizzle in pure fat, remove it to a plate, pour off the fat, deglaze
> with the white wine, scraping and stirring with a wooden spoon to
> dissolve all caramelized adherences, put the juice and garlich through
> a sieve to rid them of the garlic hulls, return to the pan, reduce the
> liquid to the staccato bubbling stage, anf return the meat to the pan.
> There should be only enough sauce to just coat the pieces. Grind over
> pepper to taste.
> *********************************end of olney
>
> Whenb Barbara does this she usually cooks some beans (Navy beans,
> perhaps) and puts them in the pan near the end. THey soak up some of
> the fat (BAD BAD BAD).
>
> This is easier to do than to type in. Please excuse typos.
>
>
>
> Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC
> J36 Gjo/a

Thank you, Rodney! This really sounds delicious and I've got to make it
soon. Hopefully I will find some nice lamb shanks on Saturday. I have a
Le Creuset covered oven that should work well. I can't afford copper
either.

Cheers,
Wayne

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Dee Randall wrote:
>
>> I thought ovens were vented to the outside, so the heat could go OUTSIDE;
>> am
>> I wrong?
>>
>
> Ovens are often vented somewhere on the front panel.
>

This is what I was thinking: My Genair has a vent to the outside. If I have
the switch turned on to vent the air to go outside, while the oven is on, it
vents the oven air to the outside.

If I do not have the switch on, the oven air stays inside my house, hence in
the winter, sometimes I leave my stone in the oven while I am cooking a long
time, and then I leave the oven door open and the stone heats my kitchen.
Dee