2 questions for the experts out there...

1. I'm sure many of you would agree that an ideal diet should include
a wide variety of vegetables everyday, but if for some reason you had
to eat the same, say, 4 or 5 vegetables each day, which would be the
healthiest to consume?


2. If my daily diet includes a big bowl of raw spinach, steamed
broccoli, carrots, tomatoes, and other vegetables, am I at risk of
overdosing on vitamin A, which I understand has high concentrations in
spinach and other vegetables? If so, how do you recommend I change my
diet?


any thoughts would be much appreciated..

thanks
chris

On 19 Feb 2005 17:30:48 -0800, (chris) wrote:

>2 questions for the experts out there...
>
>1. I'm sure many of you would agree that an ideal diet should include
>a wide variety of vegetables everyday, but if for some reason you had
>to eat the same, say, 4 or 5 vegetables each day, which would be the
>healthiest to consume?
>
>
>2. If my daily diet includes a big bowl of raw spinach, steamed
>broccoli, carrots, tomatoes, and other vegetables, am I at risk of
>overdosing on vitamin A, which I understand has high concentrations in
>spinach and other vegetables? If so, how do you recommend I change my
>diet?
>
the vegetables have beta-carotene, which is a sort of precursor of
vitamin A. beta-carotene is not as toxic as vitamin A. But don't eat
the same ones every day; you should get some crucifera vegetables
(cabbage, brussels sprouts, cauliflower, broccoli) among others.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

chris wrote:
> 2 questions for the experts out there...
>
> 1. I'm sure many of you would agree that an ideal diet should
include
> a wide variety of vegetables everyday, but if for some reason you had
> to eat the same, say, 4 or 5 vegetables each day, which would be the
> healthiest to consume?
>
> 2. If my daily diet includes a big bowl of raw spinach, steamed
> broccoli, carrots, tomatoes, and other vegetables, am I at risk of
> overdosing on vitamin A, which I understand has high concentrations
in
> spinach and other vegetables? If so, how do you recommend I change
my
> diet?

Even with 4 or 5 veggies you can have variety, especially if they are
from different families--i.e., cabbage and broccoli would give less
variety than broccoli and tomatoes. A friend ate several carrots every
single day without fail for months and her skin turned yellow. Other
strange symptoms appeared, she went to the doc, who diagnosed vitamin A
overdose. His prescription was, stop eating so many carrots.

I doubt there is a real answer to "which would be the healthiest."

-aem

"aem" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> chris wrote:
> > 2 questions for the experts out there...
> >
> > 1. I'm sure many of you would agree that an ideal diet should
> include
> > a wide variety of vegetables everyday, but if for some reason you had
> > to eat the same, say, 4 or 5 vegetables each day, which would be the
> > healthiest to consume?
> >
> > 2. If my daily diet includes a big bowl of raw spinach, steamed
> > broccoli, carrots, tomatoes, and other vegetables, am I at risk of
> > overdosing on vitamin A, which I understand has high concentrations
> in
> > spinach and other vegetables? If so, how do you recommend I change
> my
> > diet?
>
> Even with 4 or 5 veggies you can have variety, especially if they are
> from different families--i.e., cabbage and broccoli would give less
> variety than broccoli and tomatoes. A friend ate several carrots every
> single day without fail for months and her skin turned yellow. Other
> strange symptoms appeared, she went to the doc, who diagnosed vitamin A
> overdose. His prescription was, stop eating so many carrots.
>
> I doubt there is a real answer to "which would be the healthiest."
>
> -aem

I've a couple of comments.
First, she may have been low thyroid or developing diabetes.
I understand such person tned to accumulate carotene.
Second, there is a report going back in WW2 in Great Britian
in which people starting huge amounts of home grow carrots
as it was what they had. They started having problem
that were attributed to the carrots. The claim was that
carrots contain a toxin that gets to be too much when
they are too big a portion of the diet. In light of
this the advice the others gave to vary and rotate
your vegetable makes lots of sense. I doubt carrots
are the only vegetable with one might get too much of a
plant toxin.


>

"chris" > wrote in message
om...
> 2 questions for the experts out there...
>
> 1. I'm sure many of you would agree that an ideal diet
should include
> a wide variety of vegetables everyday, but if for some
reason you had
> to eat the same, say, 4 or 5 vegetables each day, which
would be the
> healthiest to consume?
>
>
> 2. If my daily diet includes a big bowl of raw spinach,
steamed
> broccoli, carrots, tomatoes, and other vegetables, am I at
risk of
> overdosing on vitamin A, which I understand has high
concentrations in
> spinach and other vegetables?

No risk.. not even if you juice them and consume that at 5x
the volume..get a book on raw juicing therapy. or search those
key words on google




If so, how do you recommend I change my
> diet?
>
>
> any thoughts would be much appreciated..
>
> thanks
> chris

My mom craved carrots when she was carrying me and ate up to two pounds of
them every day. I was born orange. No kidding!

Strangely, the symptoms of Vitamin A overdose are pretty much the same as a
Vitamin A deficiency. I can't find my college nutrition book to tell you
more about that.

I think it would be a good idea to do some research on the internet or at
the library.

Carol
--
"Years ago my mother used to say to me... She'd say,
'In this world Elwood, you must be oh-so smart or oh-so pleasant.'
Well, for years I was smart.... I recommend pleasant. You may quote me."

*James Stewart* in the 1950 movie, _Harvey_

Phil Scott wrote:
:: "chris" > wrote in message
:: om...
::: 2 questions for the experts out there...
:::
::: 1. I'm sure many of you would agree that an ideal diet should
::: include a wide variety of vegetables everyday, but if for some
::: reason you had to eat the same, say, 4 or 5 vegetables each day,
::: which would be the healthiest to consume?
:::
No one has dared to answer your question directly, so I give a try
although there is no absolutely correct answer as the nutritional needs
are individual. It is also a question of which health conditions you
want to treat or prevent.

Here is one suggestion:
- parsley (a rich source of many phytochemicals, minerals)
- red onions (a rich source of quercetin)
- spinach (lutein, minerals)
- broccoli (sulphoraphane)
- tomatoes (lycopene)

Carrots, sweet potatoes, orange sweet peppers, garlic (is it a vegetable
or a herb?)and romaine lettuce would also be excellent choices.
:::
::: 2. If my daily diet includes a big bowl of raw spinach, steamed
::: broccoli, carrots, tomatoes, and other vegetables, am I at risk of
::: overdosing on vitamin A, which I understand has high concentrations
::: in spinach and other vegetables?
::
:: No risk.. not even if you juice them and consume that at 5x
:: the volume..get a book on raw juicing therapy. or search those
:: key words on google
::
I agree. Beta carotene is not toxic.

--
Juhana

You've said any thoughts would be appreciated so here goes. I'm no
expert in science and nutrition but have thought about your questions
before from the standpoint of a cook.


For the 5 vegetables each day, I'd try to get one from each of the
following categories:


1) Something in the cabbage family. That could be broccoli, cabbage,
kale, collards, cauliflower, etc.

2) Something dark orange with beta carotene in it like carrots, sweet
pototaoes, rutabaga (also in the cabbage family), etc.

3) Dark leafy greens including spinach, kale, arugula, parsley or chard.

4) A squash like butternut, acorn, buttercup (also in category #2), or
zucchini.

5) A flavor punch like tomatoes or mushrooms.


I'm assuming that your question doesn't mean that you intend to eat ONLY
vegetables and not get grains, beans, eggs, dairy, etc. If that were
the case, I'd suggest more in the way of something with calories. That
leads to my thoughts on your second question. If you're getting plenty
of other foods besides the 5 vegetables, it is unlikely that you'd get
so much of any one of them that you'd be at risk for an overdose. You'd
be getting calories from other sources. If you were trying to limit
your total foods to the vegetables on the list and not eat anything
else, then a vitamin overdose wouldn't be the worst of your worries, but
I suppose it could happen.


--Lia


chris wrote:
> 2 questions for the experts out there...
>
> 1. I'm sure many of you would agree that an ideal diet should include
> a wide variety of vegetables everyday, but if for some reason you had
> to eat the same, say, 4 or 5 vegetables each day, which would be the
> healthiest to consume?
>
>
> 2. If my daily diet includes a big bowl of raw spinach, steamed
> broccoli, carrots, tomatoes, and other vegetables, am I at risk of
> overdosing on vitamin A, which I understand has high concentrations in
> spinach and other vegetables? If so, how do you recommend I change my
> diet?
>
>
> any thoughts would be much appreciated..
>
> thanks
> chris

Juhana Harju wrote:
:: Phil Scott wrote:
:::: "chris" > wrote in message
:::: om...
:::::
::::: 1. I'm sure many of you would agree that an ideal diet should
::::: include a wide variety of vegetables everyday, but if for some
::::: reason you had to eat the same, say, 4 or 5 vegetables each day,
::::: which would be the healthiest to consume?
:::::
:: Here is one suggestion:
:: - parsley (a rich source of many phytochemicals, minerals)
:: - red onions (a rich source of quercetin)
:: - spinach (lutein, minerals)
:: - broccoli (sulphoraphane)
:: - tomatoes (lycopene)
::
Spinach and broccoli are sources of beta carotene also.

:: Carrots, sweet potatoes, orange sweet peppers, garlic (is it a
:: vegetable or a herb?)and romaine lettuce would also be excellent
:: choices.

--
Juhana

Juhana Harju wrote:
:: Juhana Harju wrote:
:::: Phil Scott wrote:
:::::: "chris" > wrote in message
:::::: om...
:::::::
::::::: 1. I'm sure many of you would agree that an ideal diet should
::::::: include a wide variety of vegetables everyday, but if for some
::::::: reason you had to eat the same, say, 4 or 5 vegetables each day,
::::::: which would be the healthiest to consume?
:::::::
:::: Here is one suggestion:
:::: - parsley (a rich source of many phytochemicals, minerals)
:::: - red onions (a rich source of quercetin)
:::: - spinach (lutein, minerals)
:::: - broccoli (sulphoraphane)
:::: - tomatoes (lycopene)
::::
:: Spinach and broccoli are sources of beta carotene also.
::
And even better (but more costly) suggestion:

Parsley
Red onions
Spinach
Broccoli sprouts
Cherry tomatoes

--
Juhana

Thanks for all your thoughtful suggestions.. and to anyone yet to
respond, I neglected to mention that I am a 39-yr-old male
lacto-vegetarian in good health who eats a well-balanced diet
including plenty of fresh fruit, whole grains, and very few processed
or sugary foods (no colas, etc.).

chris

chris wrote:
> Thanks for all your thoughtful suggestions.. and to anyone yet to
> respond, I neglected to mention that I am a 39-yr-old male
> lacto-vegetarian in good health who eats a well-balanced diet
> including plenty of fresh fruit, whole grains, and very few processed
> or sugary foods (no colas, etc.).


While I suppose it is none of my business, I'm curious enough to ask the
reason for your questions. Why would you want to know about limiting to
vegetables? I could picture it for a science fiction story where the
survivors on a planet have room in the space ship for only 5 packets of
seeds and then get strange symptoms that turn out to be overdoses of
vitamin A or something like that but can't picture a limit to 5
vegetables as part of a well-balanced diet in this time and place.


--Lia

chris wrote:
:: Thanks for all your thoughtful suggestions.. and to anyone yet to
:: respond, I neglected to mention that I am a 39-yr-old male
:: lacto-vegetarian in good health who eats a well-balanced diet
:: including plenty of fresh fruit, whole grains, and very few processed
:: or sugary foods (no colas, etc.).
::
For males favoring onions, tomatoes and broccoli would probably give
some protection against prostate cancer also.

--
Juhana

1) eating the same vegetables (or anything else for that matter) is never
recommendable.
variety is the key to a balanced diet.

2) you can't overdose on beta carotene when thinking of vitamin a toxicity
because it's only split to vitamin a on demand.

problems with very high beta carotene (probably not possible to reach this
level with food) however may arise if you are smoking. (see the finland
study on smokers and beta carotene)


"Curly Sue" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
> On 19 Feb 2005 17:30:48 -0800, (chris) wrote:
>
>>2 questions for the experts out there...
>>
>>1. I'm sure many of you would agree that an ideal diet should include
>>a wide variety of vegetables everyday, but if for some reason you had
>>to eat the same, say, 4 or 5 vegetables each day, which would be the
>>healthiest to consume?
>>
>>
>>2. If my daily diet includes a big bowl of raw spinach, steamed
>>broccoli, carrots, tomatoes, and other vegetables, am I at risk of
>>overdosing on vitamin A, which I understand has high concentrations in
>>spinach and other vegetables? If so, how do you recommend I change my
>>diet?
>>
> the vegetables have beta-carotene, which is a sort of precursor of
> vitamin A. beta-carotene is not as toxic as vitamin A. But don't eat
> the same ones every day; you should get some crucifera vegetables
> (cabbage, brussels sprouts, cauliflower, broccoli) among others.
>
> Sue(tm)
> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

MMu wrote:
::: On 19 Feb 2005 17:30:48 -0800, (chris) wrote:

:::: [...]If my daily diet includes a big bowl of raw spinach, steamed
:::: broccoli, carrots, tomatoes, and other vegetables, am I at risk of
:::: overdosing on vitamin A, which I understand has high
:::: concentrations in spinach and other vegetables? If so, how do you
:::: recommend I change my diet?
::::
:: problems with very high beta carotene (probably not possible to
:: reach this level with food) however may arise if you are smoking.
:: (see the finland study on smokers and beta carotene)
::
The Finnish study was done with isolated beta carotene supplements and
the beta carotene was not in its natural form. Beta carotene from food
sources is perfectly alright.

--
Juhana,
Finland

Lia wrote:

> While I suppose it is none of my business, I'm curious enough to ask the
> reason for your questions. Why would you want to know about limiting to
> vegetables? I could picture it for a science fiction story where the
> survivors on a planet have room in the space ship for only 5 packets of
> seeds and then get strange symptoms that turn out to be overdoses of
> vitamin A or something like that but can't picture a limit to 5
> vegetables as part of a well-balanced diet in this time and place.

I eat a well-balanced diet of veggies, fruits, grains, beans, dairy,
and nuts/seeds everyday, but I'm lazy, so I tend to eat the same foods
each day. I try to vary it up as much I can, but I wanted to know if
there was a better combination of veggies than my daily staple of
spinach, broccoli, tomatoes, and carrots (I also eat cucumbers and
alfalfa sprouts at lunch).

thanks,
chris

chris wrote:

> I eat a well-balanced diet of veggies, fruits, grains, beans, dairy,
> and nuts/seeds everyday, but I'm lazy, so I tend to eat the same foods
> each day. I try to vary it up as much I can, but I wanted to know if
> there was a better combination of veggies than my daily staple of
> spinach, broccoli, tomatoes, and carrots (I also eat cucumbers and
> alfalfa sprouts at lunch).


Ah, now I understand, and it makes sense. If you want to vary your diet
more without sacrificing your essential laziness (something else I
understand), come here (rfc) for recipes or take a look at the thread on
best vegetarian cookbooks. Oddly enough, it looks like you followed my
earlier advice without knowing what it was. You have something in the
leafy green category (spinach), something in the cabbage family category
(broccoli), something dark orange (carrots) and something flavorful
(tomato). The only think I'd add is a squash like butternut squash.


--Lia

On 21 Feb 2005 07:54:20 -0800, (chris) wrote:

>I eat a well-balanced diet of veggies, fruits, grains, beans, dairy,
>and nuts/seeds everyday, but I'm lazy, so I tend to eat the same foods
>each day. I try to vary it up as much I can, but I wanted to know if
>there was a better combination of veggies than my daily staple of
>spinach, broccoli, tomatoes, and carrots (I also eat cucumbers and
>alfalfa sprouts at lunch).

I think maybe you are at risk of essential aminoacids deficiency. And
probably betaine/choline deficiency. try some beets, preferably grown
in salty areas as that induce betaine production, and use more beans.
Also wheat bran, wheat germ, whole wheat

Look at
http://www.vitaminexpress.com/health...04_04_08_1.htm

http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/5/1302 also contains
some tables on betaine and choline. (and there are several others)

Spinach is also a good source, but in all vegetable where free amino
acids and stuff like betaine is primarily used as osmolytes in order
to keep constant water turgor (hydration level and pressure inside
cells), stress conditions are important. Plants watered daily during
drought spell express far less of these compounds than in vegetables
and other plants irregularly watered during dry periods.

Seems important not to miss out on eating berries. Blueberries,
blackberries, and other berries are very high in anitoxidants. Higher
than the foods mentioned, I think. I eat them every day even when I
was only able to buy frozen ones, since I'm guessing berries that were
frozen still contain tons of anthocyanins (sp?).

> The Finnish study was done with isolated beta carotene supplements and
> the beta carotene was not in its natural form. Beta carotene from food
> sources is perfectly alright.
>
all trans-beta carotene.

natural would be a mix of trans and cis

John Que wrote:
::: The Finnish study was done with isolated beta carotene supplements
::: and the beta carotene was not in its natural form. Beta carotene
::: from food sources is perfectly alright.
:::
:: all trans-beta carotene.
::
:: natural would be a mix of trans and cis

That's right. This is the Finnish Study:

The effect of vitamin E and beta carotene on the incidence of lung
cancer and other cancers in male smokers. The Alpha-Tocopherol, Beta
Carotene Cancer Prevention Study Group. N Engl J Med. 1994 Apr
14;330(15):1029-35. PMID: 8127329

"Unexpectedly, we observed a higher incidence of lung cancer among the
men who received beta carotene than among those who did not."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=8127329

But there are also studies where an *inverse* relationship between beta
carotene and lung cancer was found, so the situation is not so clear:

Connett JE, Kuller LH, Kjelsberg MO, Polk BF, Collins G, Rider A, Hulley
SB. Relationship between carotenoids and cancer. The Multiple Risk
Factor Intervention Trial (MRFIT) Study. Cancer. 1989 Jul
1;64(1):126-34. PMID: 2731108

"The results of this study provide further evidence for a possible
protective effect of beta carotene against lung cancer among cigarette
smokers."

Menkes MS, Comstock GW, Vuilleumier JP, Helsing KJ, Rider AA, Brookmeyer
R. Serum beta-carotene, vitamins A and E, selenium, and the risk of lung
cancer. N Engl J Med. 1986 Nov 13;315(20):1250-4. PMID: 3773937

--
Juhana

"Juhana Harju" > wrote in message
...
> John Que wrote:
> ::: The Finnish study was done with isolated beta carotene supplements
> ::: and the beta carotene was not in its natural form. Beta carotene
> ::: from food sources is perfectly alright.
> :::
> :: all trans-beta carotene.
> ::
> :: natural would be a mix of trans and cis
>
> That's right. This is the Finnish Study:
>
> The effect of vitamin E and beta carotene on the incidence of lung
> cancer and other cancers in male smokers. The Alpha-Tocopherol, Beta
> Carotene Cancer Prevention Study Group. N Engl J Med. 1994 Apr
> 14;330(15):1029-35. PMID: 8127329
>
> "Unexpectedly, we observed a higher incidence of lung cancer among the
> men who received beta carotene than among those who did not."
>
>
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=8127329
>
> But there are also studies where an *inverse* relationship between beta
> carotene and lung cancer was found, so the situation is not so clear:
>
> Connett JE, Kuller LH, Kjelsberg MO, Polk BF, Collins G, Rider A, Hulley
> SB. Relationship between carotenoids and cancer. The Multiple Risk
> Factor Intervention Trial (MRFIT) Study. Cancer. 1989 Jul
> 1;64(1):126-34. PMID: 2731108
>
> "The results of this study provide further evidence for a possible
> protective effect of beta carotene against lung cancer among cigarette
> smokers."
>
> Menkes MS, Comstock GW, Vuilleumier JP, Helsing KJ, Rider AA, Brookmeyer
> R. Serum beta-carotene, vitamins A and E, selenium, and the risk of lung
> cancer. N Engl J Med. 1986 Nov 13;315(20):1250-4. PMID: 3773937
>
> --
> Juhana

The positive reports are based on correlation.
The old saying goes " correlation doesn't prove causation."
Now that I've said that, I state the obvious which you
are aware. The 1986 and 1989 studies are based
the dietary source apparently. The involved beta carotenoid
would be both trans and cis. There would likely be
a great mix of carotenoids especially in the diets of
the healthier subjects.
>

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Seems important not to miss out on eating berries. Blueberries,
> blackberries, and other berries are very high in anitoxidants. Higher
> than the foods mentioned, I think. I eat them every day even when I
> was only able to buy frozen ones, since I'm guessing berries that were
> frozen still contain tons of anthocyanins (sp?).

Yes, they still contain it. Anthocyanins are purple.
Berries are an excellent food. Plums and prune
(both fresh and dried) are also good sources.

>

Alf Christophersen wrote:
:: On 21 Feb 2005 07:54:20 -0800, (chris) wrote:
::
::: I eat a well-balanced diet of veggies, fruits, grains, beans, dairy,
::: and nuts/seeds everyday, but I'm lazy, so I tend to eat the same
::: foods each day. I try to vary it up as much I can, but I wanted to
::: know if there was a better combination of veggies than my daily
::: staple of spinach, broccoli, tomatoes, and carrots (I also eat
::: cucumbers and alfalfa sprouts at lunch).
::
:: I think maybe you are at risk of essential aminoacids deficiency.

Essential amino acids deficiency with a lactovegetarian diet containing
beans, grains and nuts/seeds everyday? :-) Please show some evidence.

--
Juhana

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:43:53 +0200, "Juhana Harju"
> wrote:

>Essential amino acids deficiency with a lactovegetarian diet containing
>beans, grains and nuts/seeds everyday? :-) Please show some evidence.

oVerlooked the bean :-) Without beans,you are at high risk.

But lysine may be low.

Janet wrote:

> Seems important not to miss out on eating berries. Blueberries,
> blackberries, and other berries are very high in anitoxidants. Higher
> than the foods mentioned, I think. I eat them every day even when I
> was only able to buy frozen ones, since I'm guessing berries that were
> frozen still contain tons of anthocyanins (sp?).

Agreed. I eat half a cup of fresh blueberries everyday, year-round.
I also eat 2 bananas everyday, as well as other fruits like raisins,
occasionally grapes and strawberries.

thanks again to everyone for their useful advice..
chris