Hi all,

I made my first own broccoli with cream sauce using flour, butter and
milk to make a white sauce but it came out ... too starchy tasting.

I tried to understand what happened (thanks to the many good posts here
about this) but I have a question. Many posts on RFC say to cook the
flour and butter for a short time "to remove the starch taste" but some
others say cook the white sauce for a long time ... "to remove the
starch taste".

So I was cureous, what is it that gets rid of the starch taste, cooking
the flour or the white sauce? I was cureous too, how does the starch
manage to provide thickness but no starch flavor once its cooked
properly?

Kind regards,

Meryl

"Meryl" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I made my first own broccoli with cream sauce using flour, butter and
> milk to make a white sauce but it came out ... too starchy tasting.
>
> I tried to understand what happened (thanks to the many good posts here
> about this) but I have a question. Many posts on RFC say to cook the
> flour and butter for a short time "to remove the starch taste" but some
> others say cook the white sauce for a long time ... "to remove the
> starch taste".
>
> So I was cureous, what is it that gets rid of the starch taste, cooking
> the flour or the white sauce? I was cureous too, how does the starch
> manage to provide thickness but no starch flavor once its cooked
> properly?

I think you have to cook the flour in the fat for at least two minutes
before adding the liquid. Once the liquid is added you can't completely get
rid of the raw flour taste.

Meryl wrote:

> I made my first own broccoli with cream sauce using flour, butter and
> milk to make a white sauce but it came out ... too starchy tasting.
>
> I tried to understand what happened (thanks to the many good posts here
> about this) but I have a question. Many posts on RFC say to cook the
> flour and butter for a short time "to remove the starch taste" but some
> others say cook the white sauce for a long time ... "to remove the
> starch taste".
>
> So I was cureous, what is it that gets rid of the starch taste, cooking
> the flour or the white sauce? I was cureous too, how does the starch
> manage to provide thickness but no starch flavor once its cooked
> properly?
>

It's a combination of the two. I usually put the butter in first, over low
heat, and once it is melted I add an equal amount of flour, blend it in and
stir it around for a while until it starts to darken just a bit. Then
remove from heat and add liquid, stirring constantly, then put the pot on
medium heat and continue to stir. It should not take more than a few
minutes.

Meryl wrote:


> I made my first own broccoli with cream sauce using flour, butter and
> milk to make a white sauce but it came out ... too starchy tasting.
>
> I tried to understand what happened (thanks to the many good posts here
> about this) but I have a question. Many posts on RFC say to cook the
> flour and butter for a short time "to remove the starch taste" but some
> others say cook the white sauce for a long time ... "to remove the
> starch taste".
>


Did you use a standard white sauce ratio of
flour:butter:liquid?
For a thin sauce that would be-
1 T flour:1 T butter:1 cup milk
For a medium sauce that would be-
2 T flour:2 T butter:1 cup milk
and for a thick sauce-
3 T flour:3 T butter:1 cup milk

I melt the butter and cook the flour for at least
two min at while stirring away. I then add my
seasonings (salt, pepper, dry mustard if aprop,
dash of nutmeg often...) and then warmed milk.
Bring it up to heat and thicken while whisking.
Then I add very sharp cheddar (sometimes adding
parmesan also)to melt and I've got a lovely cheese
sauce.
Goomba

Meryl wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I made my first own broccoli with cream sauce using flour, butter and
> milk to make a white sauce but it came out ... too starchy tasting.
>
> I tried to understand what happened (thanks to the many good posts here
> about this) but I have a question. Many posts on RFC say to cook the
> flour and butter for a short time "to remove the starch taste" but some
> others say cook the white sauce for a long time ... "to remove the
> starch taste".
>
> So I was cureous, what is it that gets rid of the starch taste, cooking
> the flour or the white sauce? I was cureous too, how does the starch
> manage to provide thickness but no starch flavor once its cooked
> properly?

The simplest solution is to do what Escoffier suggested. Use a pure
starch like corn starch, potato starch, etc. in the roux. It's
essentially instant and it has none of the drawbacks of flour. No long
cook needed, either before or after adding it to the sauce base, no
skimming necessary, thickness becomes obvious quickly rather than
after cooking and waiting.

You're not tasting starch in that undercooked roux, or rather you're
tasting everything else plus ungelatinized starch. It's pasty and
that's because the starch is part of a very complex little package,
each member of which needs to be cooked in its own fashion. Cut to the
chase. Use a pure starch. If you want the opacity that flour provides,
use a slurry with some cream in it instead of the roux. Finish by
mounting with butter and - voila - a good, classic, Escoffier-approved
sauce.

Problem solved.

Pastorio

"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
...
> Meryl wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I made my first own broccoli with cream sauce using flour, butter and
> > milk to make a white sauce but it came out ... too starchy tasting.
> >
> > I tried to understand what happened (thanks to the many good posts here
> > about this) but I have a question. Many posts on RFC say to cook the
> > flour and butter for a short time "to remove the starch taste" but some
> > others say cook the white sauce for a long time ... "to remove the
> > starch taste".
> >
> > So I was cureous, what is it that gets rid of the starch taste, cooking
> > the flour or the white sauce? I was cureous too, how does the starch
> > manage to provide thickness but no starch flavor once its cooked
> > properly?
>
> The simplest solution is to do what Escoffier suggested. Use a pure
> starch like corn starch, potato starch, etc. in the roux. It's
> essentially instant and it has none of the drawbacks of flour. No long
> cook needed, either before or after adding it to the sauce base, no
> skimming necessary, thickness becomes obvious quickly rather than
> after cooking and waiting.
>
> You're not tasting starch in that undercooked roux, or rather you're
> tasting everything else plus ungelatinized starch. It's pasty and
> that's because the starch is part of a very complex little package,
> each member of which needs to be cooked in its own fashion. Cut to the
> chase. Use a pure starch. If you want the opacity that flour provides,
> use a slurry with some cream in it instead of the roux. Finish by
> mounting with butter and - voila - a good, classic, Escoffier-approved
> sauce.

Another alternative is to use Wondra Flour which is pre-gelatinized.

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 00:46:26 GMT, "Vox Humana" > wrote:

>
>>
>> You're not tasting starch in that undercooked roux, or rather you're
>> tasting everything else plus ungelatinized starch. It's pasty and
>> that's because the starch is part of a very complex little package,
>> each member of which needs to be cooked in its own fashion. Cut to the
>> chase. Use a pure starch. If you want the opacity that flour provides,
>> use a slurry with some cream in it instead of the roux. Finish by
>> mounting with butter and - voila - a good, classic, Escoffier-approved
>> sauce.
>
>Another alternative is to use Wondra Flour which is pre-gelatinized.
>

Is WONDRA really better as a thickener ??

I thought it was all advertising hype.



<rj>

Hi all,

Is the starch flavor from the starch or from something else like
proteins (or something) in the flour?

Meryl


Meryl wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I made my first own broccoli with cream sauce using flour, butter and
> milk to make a white sauce but it came out ... too starchy tasting.
>
> I tried to understand what happened (thanks to the many good posts
here
> about this) but I have a question. Many posts on RFC say to cook the
> flour and butter for a short time "to remove the starch taste" but
some
> others say cook the white sauce for a long time ... "to remove the
> starch taste".
>
> So I was cureous, what is it that gets rid of the starch taste,
cooking
> the flour or the white sauce? I was cureous too, how does the starch
> manage to provide thickness but no starch flavor once its cooked
> properly?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Meryl