On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 11:13:16 +0100, The Reids
> wrote:

>Following up to yaofeng
>
>>There is only one word to describe the paella in Spain, atrocious.
>
>In a tourist restaurant away from the part of Spain it belongs,
>sometimes less than perfect. A Spanish restaurateur said the
>same. But I have rarely had *any* "atrocious" food in Spain.

*resists like hell in passing comment once again on the English's
pallet*
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

The Reids wrote:
> Icono Clast said:
>>It is extremely difficult for tourists to "really know where to go".
>
> Do what I do, as a local, read guides to supplement local knowledge.

I've read many a guide for San Francisco and find the information so
fallacious that I don't trust guides for places of which my ignorance
is total.

The San Francisco Sights page
<http://geocities.com/iconoc/Articles/Sights.html> at the site at
Right in the sig contains the following paragraph:

<< CAVEAT EMPTOR
<< Commercial sites and publications should be regarded with extreme
skepticism because they are more likely to recommend those who
advertise with them, regardless of quality, in preference to The Best
who mightn't advertise with them. Further, such sites and
publications might not have what you seek only because they do not
pay to be mentioned. You are advised, regardless of where you travel,
to ask local people about commercial sites' and publications'
recommendations. >>
__________________________________________________ __________
Un San Francisqueño en San Francisco
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 IClast at SFbay Net

Icono Clast wrote:
>
> Arri London wrote:
> > The Reids wrote:
> >> Icono Clast said:
> >>> Improper eating leads to obese people. I frequent buffets and
> >>> eat enormous quantities.
> >>
> >> for most people eating enormous quantities will lead to obesity,
> >> its simple, calories in v calories out. What is "improper
> >> eating"?
> >
> > To put it mathematically:
> >
> > calories in >> calories out = improper eating
>
> Improper eating isn't what I really mean by "improper eating" as it
> might cause obesity but it can also be eating that fails to provide
> proper nutrition. One can eat foods that don't cause weight-gain
> while also failing to provide proper nutrition.

All foods cause weight gain if too much is eaten. But the point about
nutrition is correct too.

>
> I'll strive for greater clarity in future.

LOL yes indeed.
>
> The formula should really read:
> calories in >> calories out = excess weight (fat or obesity, etc.)


Proper eating is both things: correct calorie intake and correct
nutrition.

Following up to Mark Hewitt

>>>You are joking?!
>>
>> no, never seen one.
>
>Put that right today. Get some chips, and some bread!

got close yesterday, "chicken toasted sandwich with chips", I
went for belly of pork with sweet potato mash.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Edmund Lewis

> I have never actually seen a chip buttie,
>
>Crikey! How can you live in the UK for umpteen years and not......

56 years, not a sniff of one :-)

>Why? I'm pretty sure I've seen rice with shepherd's pie too.

Haven't seen that either! My mother in law did potatoes with it
though (once).

>Even "non-traditional" food gets in on the act, eg curry with rice AND naan
>bread.

That's about learning the sub culture isn't it.

> Appreciation of food is fairly new to the UK

this is true

>I think it was appreciated to some extent pre-industrial Revolution, at
>least among the more well-to-do. However I think what we are seeing is
>a re-emergence of that appreciation.

There are books written on it, the causes are legion. Protestant
work culture, WW2 and rationing, anglo saxon culture, anti
catholicism, anti eurpoeanism, early industrialisation and so on.
Certainly, somehow, by victorian times, the young Mrs Beeton was
in position to write her definitive book setting in stone the
bad practises of her times. They are now almost gone, but while
some people used mass foreign travel to open their eyes to the
mistakes of the immediate past, some adopted the new convenience
foods that have led to Saint Jamie Olivers crusade on modern
school dinners.

> and like
>> the US, food has changed drastically over the last 30 years. It
>> hasnt reached the bottom of the pile yet, hence Jamie Oliver and
>> his school dinners campaign.
>
>Came 25 years too late for me :-)

Sounds like your mum cooked like mine :-)
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Deep Foiled Malls

>>In a tourist restaurant away from the part of Spain it belongs,
>>sometimes less than perfect. A Spanish restaurateur said the
>>same. But I have rarely had *any* "atrocious" food in Spain.
>
>*resists like hell in passing comment once again on the English's
>pallet*

I don't understand? What has UK got to do with paella?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Icono Clast

><< Commercial sites and publications should be regarded with extreme
>skepticism because they are more likely to recommend those who
>advertise with them, regardless of quality,

Avoid guides that accept paid entries and advertising, The CAMRA
guide for instance, does not.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:59:24 +0100, The Reids wrote:

> Following up to Mark Hewitt
>
>>>>You are joking?!
>>>
>>> no, never seen one.
>>
>>Put that right today. Get some chips, and some bread!
>
> got close yesterday, "chicken toasted sandwich with chips", I
> went for belly of pork with sweet potato mash.

You see, that's your mistake. You should have jumped at the chance to
broaden your culinary horizons. ;-)
--
Tim C.

Following up to Tim Challenger

>> got close yesterday, "chicken toasted sandwich with chips", I
>> went for belly of pork with sweet potato mash.
>
>You see, that's your mistake. You should have jumped at the chance to
>broaden your culinary horizons. ;-)

hummmm. Didnt fancy that combination at all. It would have been
sausage and mash second choice.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

The Reids wrote:
>
> Following up to Deep Foiled Malls
>
> >>In a tourist restaurant away from the part of Spain it belongs,
> >>sometimes less than perfect. A Spanish restaurateur said the
> >>same. But I have rarely had *any* "atrocious" food in Spain.
> >
> >*resists like hell in passing comment once again on the English's
> >pallet*
>
> I don't understand? What has UK got to do with paella?
> --
> Mike Reid


LOL look again. The word was 'pallet'. The poster clearly has taken
exception to English pallets for whatever reason LOL.

On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:11:33 +0100, "Mark Hewitt"
> wrote:

>
>"The Reids" > wrote in message
.. .
>> I have never actually seen a chip buttie, although
>> i'm sure poor people eat them to fill up, at least in the past.
>
>You are joking?! Chip butties are gorgeous! I always make sure I have some
>bread whenever having chips :-)
>
Completely agree. When DH goes out for fish and chips, I have to do
three things - get out the plates and run them under the hot tap to
get them warm, get out the salt and vinegar, and butter some bread.
Chips without bread and butter is unthinkable to me.
--

Julie S

(if you love the idea of free books click on www.bookcrossing.com)

The Reids wrote:

> Following up to Icono Clast
>
>><< Commercial sites and publications should be regarded with extreme
>>skepticism because they are more likely to recommend those who
>>advertise with them, regardless of quality,
>
> Avoid guides that accept paid entries and advertising, The CAMRA
> guide for instance, does not.

CAMRA does accept paid sponsorships, such as the Cask Marque
organisation. At least the GBGs are not littered with adverts
throughout their pages.
--
dgs

Arri London wrote:

>
> The Reids wrote:
>
>>Following up to Deep Foiled Malls
>>
>>
>>>>In a tourist restaurant away from the part of Spain it belongs,
>>>>sometimes less than perfect. A Spanish restaurateur said the
>>>>same. But I have rarely had *any* "atrocious" food in Spain.
>>>
>>>*resists like hell in passing comment once again on the English's
>>>pallet*
>>
>>I don't understand? What has UK got to do with paella?
>
> LOL look again. The word was 'pallet'. The poster clearly has taken
> exception to English pallets for whatever reason LOL.

Right. Next, that poster will be taking exception to English fork lifts
and warehouses. (Uh-oh, possible bad assumption: does the American-
English term "fork lift" mean the same thing in British-English?)
--
dgs

On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 19:03:55 -0700, dgs > wrote:

>Arri London wrote:
>
>>
>> The Reids wrote:
>>
>>>Following up to Deep Foiled Malls
>>>
>>>
>>>>>In a tourist restaurant away from the part of Spain it belongs,
>>>>>sometimes less than perfect. A Spanish restaurateur said the
>>>>>same. But I have rarely had *any* "atrocious" food in Spain.
>>>>
>>>>*resists like hell in passing comment once again on the English's
>>>>pallet*
>>>
>>>I don't understand? What has UK got to do with paella?
>>
>> LOL look again. The word was 'pallet'. The poster clearly has taken
>> exception to English pallets for whatever reason LOL.
>
>Right. Next, that poster will be taking exception to English fork lifts
>and warehouses. (Uh-oh, possible bad assumption: does the American-
>English term "fork lift" mean the same thing in British-English?)

This UK company is selling "forklifts":

http://www.liftruck.co.uk/


Rusty

--

"How can anyone govern a nation that | http://www.geocities.com/minuteman_missile/
has 246 different kinds of cheese? | Minuteman ICBM History Website


- President Charles De Gaulle of France

Following up to Arri London

>LOL look again. The word was 'pallet'. The poster clearly has taken
>exception to English pallets for whatever reason LOL.

pallets, food and the weather. I'm surprised they bothered to
build stonehenge, its so cloudy here!
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to dgs

> (Uh-oh, possible bad assumption: does the American-
>English term "fork lift" mean the same thing in British-English?)

In England it describes the american habit of eating only with
the fork. OK. I lied, its a electric truck that lifts pallets.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

The Reids wrote:
> Following up to Edmund Lewis
>
> > I have never actually seen a chip buttie,
> >
> >Crikey! How can you live in the UK for umpteen years and not......
>
> 56 years, not a sniff of one :-)
>

> >I think it was appreciated to some extent pre-industrial Revolution,
at
> >least among the more well-to-do. However I think what we are seeing
is
> >a re-emergence of that appreciation.
>
> There are books written on it, the causes are legion. Protestant
> work culture, WW2 and rationing, anglo saxon culture, anti
> catholicism, anti eurpoeanism, early industrialisation and so on.
> Certainly, somehow, by victorian times, the young Mrs Beeton was
>

I've got a book about it somewhere
I'm probably a little too young to have seen the full force of the
change, but I've grown up thinking that food as late as the 1950s
conformed to all the worst British food stereotypes- boiled everything,
shoe-leather meat etc. This is based on what people of that era have
told me as much as anything else.

>
> > and like
> >> the US, food has changed drastically over the last 30 years. It
> >> hasnt reached the bottom of the pile yet, hence Jamie Oliver and
> >> his school dinners campaign.
> >
> >Came 25 years too late for me :-)
>
> Sounds like your mum cooked like mine :-)

She cooked OK actually- it's school food I was primarily on about. And
don't get me started on hospital food either (didn't Oliver target that
as well?) :-0

Edmund

Two popular paella dishes in Newark, NJ are paella velenciana and
paella marinera.

Thomas wrote:
> > Ireland and UK are "potato and beer cultures".
> > Italy is I suppose a wheat and wine culture.
> > Spain, I cant decide, certainly wine.
> > France: potato and wine?
> > Can anyone draw a word map of the dominance of the potato, rice
> > or wheat through Europe, along with beer and wine?
>
> Look at any decent Italian cookbook, and it is really only the south
where
> Wheat (Pasta, bread) is the main culture.
> Up North it is much more potato/rice that prevails.

On a similar note, there is a pass in the north of Tuscany, passo della
Cisa, known as the olive oil/lard border! Lard in the north, olive oil
in the south...luckily I'm below the olive oil line!

The Reids wrote:
>
> Following up to Arri London
>
> >LOL look again. The word was 'pallet'. The poster clearly has taken
> >exception to English pallets for whatever reason LOL.
>
> pallets, food and the weather. I'm surprised they bothered to
> build stonehenge, its so cloudy here!
> --
> Mike Reid


LOL! It's meant to attract the aliens. Didn't you know that each
monolith emits radiation at a frequency undetectable by ESA/NASA ?

Like China, wheat and spuds in cooler places, rice in warmer climates.
You'll find climate-based food differences in any country large enough
to have different climates. Isn't northern Italy big on butter and
dairy, and the south uses olive oil?

Why do you think they use hickory wood for BBQ in the southeastern US
and mesquite in Texas - because that's what they have a lot of.

On 10 Apr 2005 17:29:08 -0700, "Louis Cohen" >
wrote:

>Like China, wheat and spuds in cooler places, rice in warmer climates.
>You'll find climate-based food differences in any country large enough
>to have different climates. Isn't northern Italy big on butter and
>dairy, and the south uses olive oil?

Erm... no, the north is bigger on olive oil that butter. True they use
butter here, but olive oil is far more common.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Following up to Arri London

>> pallets, food and the weather. I'm surprised they bothered to
>> build stonehenge, its so cloudy here!

>LOL! It's meant to attract the aliens. Didn't you know that each
>monolith emits radiation at a frequency undetectable by ESA/NASA ?

NASA should employ a few new age ****s, they can feel the vibe,
man. Or something.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to dgs

>> Avoid guides that accept paid entries and advertising, The CAMRA
>> guide for instance, does not.
>
>CAMRA does accept paid sponsorships, such as the Cask Marque
>organisation.

but the pubs are chosen by unpaid volunteers.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Deep Foiled Malls

> Isn't northern Italy big on butter and
>>dairy, and the south uses olive oil?
>
>Erm... no, the north is bigger on olive oil that butter. True they use
>butter here, but olive oil is far more common.

but butter come into play in the north, as it does in Spain.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

On 11 Apr 2005 17:48:50 +0200, Emilia > wrote:

>Deep Foiled Malls > wrote in
:
>
>> On 10 Apr 2005 17:29:08 -0700, "Louis Cohen" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Like China, wheat and spuds in cooler places, rice in warmer climates.
>>>You'll find climate-based food differences in any country large enough
>>>to have different climates. Isn't northern Italy big on butter and
>>>dairy, and the south uses olive oil?
>>
>> Erm... no, the north is bigger on olive oil that butter. True they use
>> butter here, but olive oil is far more common.
>
>
>Now you will find olive oil more common but traditionally butter is what
>would have be used.

How do I find that?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

On 12 Apr 2005 13:11:40 +0200, Emilia > wrote:

>Deep Foiled Malls > wrote in
:
>
>> On 11 Apr 2005 17:48:50 +0200, Emilia > wrote:
>>
>>>Deep Foiled Malls > wrote in
:
>>>
>>>> On 10 Apr 2005 17:29:08 -0700, "Louis Cohen" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Like China, wheat and spuds in cooler places, rice in warmer climates.
>>>>>You'll find climate-based food differences in any country large enough
>>>>>to have different climates. Isn't northern Italy big on butter and
>>>>>dairy, and the south uses olive oil?
>>>>
>>>> Erm... no, the north is bigger on olive oil that butter. True they use
>>>> butter here, but olive oil is far more common.
>>>
>>>
>>>Now you will find olive oil more common but traditionally butter is what
>>>would have be used.
>>
>> How do I find that?
>
>What do you mean "how do I find that" ?
>
>Find some italian grandmas and ask them to teach you to cook.

I know what I meant, but the brain to usenet device failed somewhere.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--