Tonight Cindy and I were wandering in the ID (Seattle's International
District). We stopped for dinner at Hing Loon Seafood Restaurant. One
of their specialties is clams in black bean sauce, and after trying it I
can understand why. Wonderful stuff. Lots of fresh clams (one of the
benefits of living in Seattle), and the best damn black bean sauce I
have ever tried.

The sauce had a complex flavor, just the right amount of heat, and an
unusual consistency. In all of the recipes for black bean sauce that I
have seen, corn starch is used as the thickener. But Hing Loon's sauce
was more viscous - it was stickier, stretching into tendrils, more like
the effect you get with gumbo file or okra. Does anyone know how they
get this texture?

Maybe I should have asked, but I am always a bit shy about asking a
restaurant to divulge their secrets (and most of the time they don't).

--
Julian Vrieslander

Julian Vrieslander > wrote in
news:julianvREMOVE_THIS_PART-
:

> The sauce had a complex flavor, just the right amount of heat, and an
> unusual consistency. In all of the recipes for black bean sauce that I
> have seen, corn starch is used as the thickener. But Hing Loon's sauce
> was more viscous - it was stickier, stretching into tendrils, more like
> the effect you get with gumbo file or okra. Does anyone know how they
> get this texture?
>
> Maybe I should have asked, but I am always a bit shy about asking a
> restaurant to divulge their secrets (and most of the time they don't).
>
>

Perhaps the sauce was made like in the recipe below? In the pan with the
food stuffs, not added from a bottle. I'm not saying the bean sauce below
would taste like what you ate but possibly it was made in a similar method.

Beef and Peppers in Black Bean Sauce

A Cantonese recipe

Ingredients:

4 ounces Sirloin beef sliced thin or thick steaks
3 green peppers (or red and green peppers as desired)
1/2 small onion
2 sticks of celery
1/2 teaspoon of salt
1/2 teaspoon soy sauce
1/2 teaspoon MSG (if desired)
1 teaspoon Chinese salted black beans
2 cloves garlic
3 slices ginger
1/2 cup stock or hot water
2 tablespoons oil for cooking

Marinade:
1/4 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon sugar
1/2 tablespoon soy sauce
2 tablespoons oil

Directions:
Place the beef in a bowl, and stir in the marinade ingredients. Marinate
beef for approximately thirty minutes.
While beef is marinating, prepare the vegetables. Cut peppers, onion, and
celery into 1/2 inch pieces. Mix the garlic cloves and ginger with the
black beans and chop finely.
Heat wok and add 2 tablespoons oil. When oil is ready, add 1/2 of the
black bean, garlic, and ginger mixture. Mix and add the beef. Stir-fry
until the beef is approximately 60 - 65 percent cooked. Remove the beef and
set aside.
Add the rest of the bean mixture, onions and celery. Stir-fry for 3 - 4
minutes and add the peppers. Stir-fry for a couple of minutes longer and
add 1/2 cup of stock or hot water. Bring to a boil, cover and simmer for a
couple of minutes. Add MSG if desired.
Mix, taste, and adjust the seasoning if necessary. Add the beef. Mix and
serve immediately.

--
Once during Prohibition I was forced to live for days on nothing but food
and water.
--------
FIELDS, W. C.

Julian Vrieslander wrote:

> Tonight Cindy and I were wandering in the ID (Seattle's International
> District). We stopped for dinner at Hing Loon Seafood Restaurant. One
> of their specialties is clams in black bean sauce, and after trying it I
> can understand why. Wonderful stuff. Lots of fresh clams (one of the
> benefits of living in Seattle), and the best damn black bean sauce I
> have ever tried.
>
> The sauce had a complex flavor, just the right amount of heat, and an
> unusual consistency. In all of the recipes for black bean sauce that I
> have seen, corn starch is used as the thickener. But Hing Loon's sauce
> was more viscous - it was stickier, stretching into tendrils, more like
> the effect you get with gumbo file or okra. Does anyone know how they
> get this texture?
>
> Maybe I should have asked, but I am always a bit shy about asking a
> restaurant to divulge their secrets (and most of the time they don't).
>

Possibly arrowroot, or maybe a gum like agar. Arrowoot can be used in place
of corn flour.
http://www.culinarycafe.com/Spices_Herbs/Arrowroot.html

I've been cooking asian recipes for decades and replicating restautant
recipes (particularly chinese) is very elusive.

gtoomey

In article >,
hahabogus > wrote:

> Perhaps the sauce was made like in the recipe below? In the pan with the
> food stuffs, not added from a bottle. I'm not saying the bean sauce below
> would taste like what you ate but possibly it was made in a similar method.

I doubt it was a bottled sauce. Most of the recipes I've seen start
with black beans or fermented black beans. I've never used the
fermented kind - perhaps it provides the viscosity that we noticed.

--
Julian Vrieslander

In article
>
,
Julian Vrieslander > wrote:

> Tonight Cindy and I were wandering in the ID (Seattle's International
> District). We stopped for dinner at Hing Loon Seafood Restaurant. One
> of their specialties is clams in black bean sauce, and after trying it I
> can understand why. Wonderful stuff. Lots of fresh clams (one of the
> benefits of living in Seattle), and the best damn black bean sauce I
> have ever tried.
>
> The sauce had a complex flavor, just the right amount of heat, and an
> unusual consistency. In all of the recipes for black bean sauce that I
> have seen, corn starch is used as the thickener. But Hing Loon's sauce
> was more viscous - it was stickier, stretching into tendrils, more like
> the effect you get with gumbo file or okra. Does anyone know how they
> get this texture?
>
> Maybe I should have asked, but I am always a bit shy about asking a
> restaurant to divulge their secrets (and most of the time they don't).

Only thing I've seen that's sticky and stretchy is Natto, but that's
Japanese http://www.ynest.com/nattoeng.htm.
Maybe they used it as a thickener...

"Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
message
...
> In article >,
> hahabogus > wrote:
>
> > Perhaps the sauce was made like in the recipe below? In the pan with the
> > food stuffs, not added from a bottle. I'm not saying the bean sauce
below
> > would taste like what you ate but possibly it was made in a similar
method.
>
> I doubt it was a bottled sauce. Most of the recipes I've seen start
> with black beans or fermented black beans. I've never used the
> fermented kind - perhaps it provides the viscosity that we noticed.


Surely you've used the fermented kind; otherwise it would be a Mexican or
South American dish and not Chinese. Maybe you're mistaking the dried kind
with the wet ones? They're both fermented.

Peter

In article >,
"Peter Dy" > wrote:

> "Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
> message
> ...
> >
> > I doubt it was a bottled sauce. Most of the recipes I've seen start
> > with black beans or fermented black beans. I've never used the
> > fermented kind - perhaps it provides the viscosity that we noticed.
>
> Surely you've used the fermented kind; otherwise it would be a Mexican or
> South American dish and not Chinese. Maybe you're mistaking the dried kind
> with the wet ones? They're both fermented.

I've never actually tried to make Chinese black bean sauce - just looked
at recipes. Some of these called for fermented beans, but (if I recall
correctly) some just called for dried or canned black beans. Maybe the
authors are assuming that a Chinese variety will be used, and that this
stuff will be the fermented kind.

--
Julian Vrieslander

"Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
message >

> I've never actually tried to make Chinese black bean sauce - just looked
> at recipes. Some of these called for fermented beans, but (if I recall
> correctly) some just called for dried or canned black beans.

Fermented black beans and salted black beans are the same
thing. Sometimes you'll see them labeled one way, sometimes
the other. Around here (Baltimore) they seem to be most
often labeled salted black beans.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore

"Hal Laurent" > wrote in
:

>
> "Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
> message >
>
>> I've never actually tried to make Chinese black bean sauce - just looked
>> at recipes. Some of these called for fermented beans, but (if I recall
>> correctly) some just called for dried or canned black beans.
>
> Fermented black beans and salted black beans are the same
> thing. Sometimes you'll see them labeled one way, sometimes
> the other. Around here (Baltimore) they seem to be most
> often labeled salted black beans.
>
> Hal Laurent
> Baltimore
>
>
>

With all these differing names...We are talking about Black fermented Soy
Beans aren't we?

--
Once during Prohibition I was forced to live for days on nothing but food
and water.
--------
FIELDS, W. C.

"hahabogus" > wrote in message
...
> "Hal Laurent" > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > "Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
> > message >
> >
> >> I've never actually tried to make Chinese black bean sauce - just
looked
> >> at recipes. Some of these called for fermented beans, but (if I recall
> >> correctly) some just called for dried or canned black beans.
> >
> > Fermented black beans and salted black beans are the same
> > thing. Sometimes you'll see them labeled one way, sometimes
> > the other. Around here (Baltimore) they seem to be most
> > often labeled salted black beans.
> >
> > Hal Laurent
> > Baltimore
> >
> >
> >
>
> With all these differing names...We are talking about Black fermented Soy
> Beans aren't we?


Yes; "chi3" in Chinese.

Peter

"Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
message
...
> In article >,
> "Peter Dy" > wrote:
>
> > "Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
> > message
> >
...
> > >
> > > I doubt it was a bottled sauce. Most of the recipes I've seen start
> > > with black beans or fermented black beans. I've never used the
> > > fermented kind - perhaps it provides the viscosity that we noticed.
> >
> > Surely you've used the fermented kind; otherwise it would be a Mexican
or
> > South American dish and not Chinese. Maybe you're mistaking the dried
kind
> > with the wet ones? They're both fermented.
>
> I've never actually tried to make Chinese black bean sauce - just looked
> at recipes. Some of these called for fermented beans, but (if I recall
> correctly) some just called for dried or canned black beans. Maybe the
> authors are assuming that a Chinese variety will be used, and that this
> stuff will be the fermented kind.


Ah, ok.

Peter

In article > , "Peter Dy"
> wrote:

> "hahabogus" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Hal Laurent" > wrote in
> > :
> >
> > >
> > > "Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
> > > message >
> > >
> > >> I've never actually tried to make Chinese black bean sauce - just
> looked
> > >> at recipes. Some of these called for fermented beans, but (if I recall
> > >> correctly) some just called for dried or canned black beans.
> > >
> > > Fermented black beans and salted black beans are the same
> > > thing. Sometimes you'll see them labeled one way, sometimes
> > > the other. Around here (Baltimore) they seem to be most
> > > often labeled salted black beans.
> > >
> > > Hal Laurent
> > > Baltimore
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > With all these differing names...We are talking about Black fermented Soy
> > Beans aren't we?
>
>
> Yes; "chi3" in Chinese.
>

Izzat 'natto' in Japanese?

monroe(fluent in 0 languages)

"Monroe, of course..." > wrote in message
...
> In article > , "Peter Dy"
> > wrote:
>
> > "hahabogus" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "Hal Laurent" > wrote in
> > > :
> > >
> > > >
> > > > "Julian Vrieslander" > wrote
in
> > > > message >
> > > >
> > > >> I've never actually tried to make Chinese black bean sauce - just
> > looked
> > > >> at recipes. Some of these called for fermented beans, but (if I
recall
> > > >> correctly) some just called for dried or canned black beans.
> > > >
> > > > Fermented black beans and salted black beans are the same
> > > > thing. Sometimes you'll see them labeled one way, sometimes
> > > > the other. Around here (Baltimore) they seem to be most
> > > > often labeled salted black beans.
> > > >
> > > > Hal Laurent
> > > > Baltimore
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > With all these differing names...We are talking about Black fermented
Soy
> > > Beans aren't we?
> >
> >
> > Yes; "chi3" in Chinese.
> >
>
> Izzat 'natto' in Japanese?


I don't know what the Japanese call Chinese black fermented beans, but
"natto" is a different word using different characters. The second
character is "bean"; the first character, "nat," means in Chinese, among
other things, "to sew close stitches (over a patch, etc)", which maybe
refers to how natto has those thin strings?


> monroe(fluent in 0 languages)


Peter (has no Japanese dictionary)

"Peter Dy" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
> message
>
...
> > In article >,
> > "Peter Dy" > wrote:
> >
> > > "Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
> > > message
> > >
>
...
> > > >
> > > > I doubt it was a bottled sauce. Most of the recipes I've seen start
> > > > with black beans or fermented black beans. I've never used the
> > > > fermented kind - perhaps it provides the viscosity that we noticed.
> > >
> > > Surely you've used the fermented kind; otherwise it would be a Mexican
> or
> > > South American dish and not Chinese. Maybe you're mistaking the dried
> kind
> > > with the wet ones? They're both fermented.
> >
> > I've never actually tried to make Chinese black bean sauce - just looked
> > at recipes. Some of these called for fermented beans, but (if I recall
> > correctly) some just called for dried or canned black beans. Maybe the
> > authors are assuming that a Chinese variety will be used, and that this
> > stuff will be the fermented kind.
>
>
> Ah, ok.


I had meant to add: Yes, I think the recipes you looked at were assuming the
Chinese variety, ie. black, fermented soy beans.

Clams with black bean sauce is horribly easy to make, btw. You should try
it, especially since fresh clams are easy to get in Seattle. Stir-fry
coarsely chopped ginger, scallions, and black beans until fragrant. Add the
clams. Add a touch of soy sauce, some rice wine, and chicken stock or
water. Let cook covered for a bit, until the clams open. Remove the clams,
and add a mixed starch and water solution to the sauce. Heat a bit, then
pour the sauce over the clams.

Peter

perhaps it provides the viscosity that we noticed.
>

I know of the viscosity of which you speak. No, it has nothing to do
with the black beans, dry or wet.
I have asked Chinese people I know who cook but they are not able to
tell me because they cook at home and are not restaurant cooks. I am
going to try Arrowroot as somebody suggested but I haven't been able to
get that viscosity either and I cook Chinese all the time. Not all
Chinese food has it, but if done right it is perfect and sticks
sufficiently to the food. I can say that I recently switched from
cornstarch to tapioca flour which is also found in Chinese grocery
stores and believe tapioca gives a better consistency. Perhaps
Arrowroot is better yet. I tried to ask this very question at a
vocational training school that sold food to the public but didn't get
an answer or a good anwer.

Explaining viscosity of a sauce is not an easy thing to do.

On Wed, 05 May 2004 10:42:31 GMT, occupant
> wrote:

>I know of the viscosity of which you speak. No, it has nothing to do
>with the black beans, dry or wet.
>I have asked Chinese people I know who cook but they are not able to
>tell me because they cook at home and are not restaurant cooks. I am
>going to try Arrowroot as somebody suggested but I haven't been able to
>get that viscosity either and I cook Chinese all the time. Not all
>Chinese food has it, but if done right it is perfect and sticks
>sufficiently to the food. I can say that I recently switched from
>cornstarch to tapioca flour which is also found in Chinese grocery
>stores and believe tapioca gives a better consistency. Perhaps
>Arrowroot is better yet.

Arrowroot breaks down (loses it's thickening power) when heated so
only add it the last minute or two of cooking.

-sw

Steve Hertz wrote:
>
>
>
> Arrowroot breaks down (loses it's thickening power) when heated so
> only add it the last minute or two of cooking.
>
> -sw

It also has a texture that some people describe as slimy, but I describe
as slippery without the fullness of taste that you get from butter. It
is a good way to add the last little bit of thickness to a sauce that
has not been reduced sufficiently.

JJ

In article > ,
"Peter Dy" > wrote:

> Clams with black bean sauce is horribly easy to make, btw. You should try
> it, especially since fresh clams are easy to get in Seattle. Stir-fry
> coarsely chopped ginger, scallions, and black beans until fragrant. Add the
> clams. Add a touch of soy sauce, some rice wine, and chicken stock or
> water. Let cook covered for a bit, until the clams open. Remove the clams,
> and add a mixed starch and water solution to the sauce. Heat a bit, then
> pour the sauce over the clams.

Sounds great - I'll have to try this. Thanks for the reply.

--
Julian Vrieslander

"Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
message
...
> In article > ,
> "Peter Dy" > wrote:
>
> > Clams with black bean sauce is horribly easy to make, btw. You should
try
> > it, especially since fresh clams are easy to get in Seattle. Stir-fry
> > coarsely chopped ginger, scallions, and black beans until fragrant. Add
the
> > clams. Add a touch of soy sauce, some rice wine, and chicken stock or
> > water. Let cook covered for a bit, until the clams open. Remove the
clams,
> > and add a mixed starch and water solution to the sauce. Heat a bit,
then
> > pour the sauce over the clams.
>
> Sounds great - I'll have to try this. Thanks for the reply.


I forgot to mention chopped garlic!! The trio of black beans, scallions,
and garlic is a classic. The addition of ginger works especially well with
seafood though.

Well, but you said you've looked at recipes for it, which I'm sure include
garlic. Still, just wanted to stress that it's hecka easy to make.

Peter

PS. Yes, I said "hecka".

"Peter Dy" > wrote in
:

> PS. Yes, I said "hecka".
>

I think you spelt heckofa wrong.

--
Once during Prohibition I was forced to live for days on nothing but food
and water.
--------
FIELDS, W. C.

"Peter Dy" > wrote .
> "Julian Vrieslander" ...
> > "Peter Dy"
> > > Clams with black bean sauce is horribly easy to make, btw. You should
> try
> > > it, especially since fresh clams are easy to get in Seattle. Stir-fry
> > > coarsely chopped ginger, scallions, and black beans until fragrant.
Add
> the
> > > clams. Add a touch of soy sauce, some rice wine, and chicken stock or
> > > water. Let cook covered for a bit, until the clams open. Remove the
> clams,
> > > and add a mixed starch and water solution to the sauce. Heat a bit,
> then
> > > pour the sauce over the clams.
> >
> > Sounds great - I'll have to try this. Thanks for the reply.

> I forgot to mention chopped garlic!! The trio of black beans, scallions,
> and garlic is a classic. The addition of ginger works especially well
with
> seafood though.
>
> Well, but you said you've looked at recipes for it, which I'm sure include
> garlic. Still, just wanted to stress that it's hecka easy to make.
>
Hmm ... sounds inspiring to action, but is anything other than clams
(shellfish in general) good with this sauce? How would it modify the
cooking?
Hubba hubba .. er, hecka hecka.

ggull wrote:
>
> "Peter Dy" > wrote .
> > "Julian Vrieslander" ...
> > > "Peter Dy"
> > > > Clams with black bean sauce is horribly easy to make, btw. You should
> > try
> > > > it, especially since fresh clams are easy to get in Seattle. Stir-fry
> > > > coarsely chopped ginger, scallions, and black beans until fragrant.
> Add
> > the
> > > > clams. Add a touch of soy sauce, some rice wine, and chicken stock or
> > > > water. Let cook covered for a bit, until the clams open. Remove the
> > clams,
> > > > and add a mixed starch and water solution to the sauce. Heat a bit,
> > then
> > > > pour the sauce over the clams.
> > >
> > > Sounds great - I'll have to try this. Thanks for the reply.
>
> > I forgot to mention chopped garlic!! The trio of black beans, scallions,
> > and garlic is a classic. The addition of ginger works especially well
> with
> > seafood though.
> >
> > Well, but you said you've looked at recipes for it, which I'm sure include
> > garlic. Still, just wanted to stress that it's hecka easy to make.
> >
> Hmm ... sounds inspiring to action, but is anything other than clams
> (shellfish in general) good with this sauce? How would it modify the
> cooking?
> Hubba hubba .. er, hecka hecka.

LOL! Just about everything is good with black bean sauce. We like it
with pork, chicken, fish and even just noodles.

In article >, Arri London >
wrote:

> LOL! Just about everything is good with black bean sauce. We like it
> with pork, chicken
<snip>

Especially the feets - be they trotters or 'fong zhows' (correct me
please, Peter D!)

monroe(I'd bet black beans in black bean sauce wouldn't be bad)

"ggull" > wrote in message
...
> "Peter Dy" > wrote .
> > "Julian Vrieslander" ...
> > > "Peter Dy"
> > > > Clams with black bean sauce is horribly easy to make, btw. You
should
> > try
> > > > it, especially since fresh clams are easy to get in Seattle.
Stir-fry
> > > > coarsely chopped ginger, scallions, and black beans until fragrant.
> Add
> > the
> > > > clams. Add a touch of soy sauce, some rice wine, and chicken stock
or
> > > > water. Let cook covered for a bit, until the clams open. Remove
the
> > clams,
> > > > and add a mixed starch and water solution to the sauce. Heat a bit,
> > then
> > > > pour the sauce over the clams.
> > >
> > > Sounds great - I'll have to try this. Thanks for the reply.
>
> > I forgot to mention chopped garlic!! The trio of black beans,
scallions,
> > and garlic is a classic. The addition of ginger works especially well
> with
> > seafood though.
> >
> > Well, but you said you've looked at recipes for it, which I'm sure
include
> > garlic. Still, just wanted to stress that it's hecka easy to make.
> >
> Hmm ... sounds inspiring to action, but is anything other than clams
> (shellfish in general) good with this sauce? How would it modify the
> cooking?


Like Arri said, it's great with lots of stuff, though I've never tried it
plain with noodles. Hmmm... I'll have to try that. With beef slices it's
also excellent.

As for modifications: With sliced beef and pork, I don't use ginger, just
the trio of garlic, scallions, and black beans--but that's your choice. I
also like larger pieces of scallions here, like an inch long. I marinate
the meat in soy, rice wine, sugar, some starch, maybe sesame seed oil. I
slightly stir-fry the meat, than remove. I reheat the wok, throw in the
chopped garlic, scallions, and beans until fragrant, then toss the meat back
in to finish. Sometimes at the end I add a water and starch mixture to give
it a bit of sauce.

I use the beans straight from the cardboard container and coarsely chop.
Others like to rinse and/or soak and/or mash the beans into a paste. It's
up to you.

Still, hella easy.

Peter

"Monroe, of course..." > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Arri London >
> wrote:
>
> > LOL! Just about everything is good with black bean sauce. We like it
> > with pork, chicken
> <snip>
>
> Especially the feets - be they trotters or 'fong zhows' (correct me
> please, Peter D!)


That's right, though the Pinyin spelling would be "feng zhau". Translates
as "phoenix claws."


Peter (doesn't know Chinese but has lots of dictionaries, though not
enough...)

Peter Dy wrote:
>
> "ggull" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Peter Dy" > wrote .
> > > "Julian Vrieslander" ...
> > > > "Peter Dy"
> > > > > Clams with black bean sauce is horribly easy to make, btw. You
> should
> > > try
> > > > > it, especially since fresh clams are easy to get in Seattle.
> Stir-fry
> > > > > coarsely chopped ginger, scallions, and black beans until fragrant.
> > Add
> > > the
> > > > > clams. Add a touch of soy sauce, some rice wine, and chicken stock
> or
> > > > > water. Let cook covered for a bit, until the clams open. Remove
> the
> > > clams,
> > > > > and add a mixed starch and water solution to the sauce. Heat a bit,
> > > then
> > > > > pour the sauce over the clams.
> > > >
> > > > Sounds great - I'll have to try this. Thanks for the reply.
> >
> > > I forgot to mention chopped garlic!! The trio of black beans,
> scallions,
> > > and garlic is a classic. The addition of ginger works especially well
> > with
> > > seafood though.
> > >
> > > Well, but you said you've looked at recipes for it, which I'm sure
> include
> > > garlic. Still, just wanted to stress that it's hecka easy to make.
> > >
> > Hmm ... sounds inspiring to action, but is anything other than clams
> > (shellfish in general) good with this sauce? How would it modify the
> > cooking?
>
> Like Arri said, it's great with lots of stuff, though I've never tried it
> plain with noodles. Hmmm... I'll have to try that. With beef slices it's
> also excellent.

Usually it's the leftover sauce I put on noodles. Normally don't make
the sauce just for the noodles, as such.
>
> As for modifications: With sliced beef and pork, I don't use ginger, just
> the trio of garlic, scallions, and black beans--but that's your choice. I
> also like larger pieces of scallions here, like an inch long. I marinate
> the meat in soy, rice wine, sugar, some starch, maybe sesame seed oil. I
> slightly stir-fry the meat, than remove. I reheat the wok, throw in the
> chopped garlic, scallions, and beans until fragrant, then toss the meat back
> in to finish. Sometimes at the end I add a water and starch mixture to give
> it a bit of sauce.
>
> I use the beans straight from the cardboard container and coarsely chop.
> Others like to rinse and/or soak and/or mash the beans into a paste. It's
> up to you.
>
> Still, hella easy.
>
> Peter

Just depends on the beans. The ones from the cardboard containers don't
need rinsing. Some of the 'shop-packaged' ones I've had were too salty
for me without a quick rince. Yes, we never mash the means, just a
coarse chop.

Peter Dy wrote:
>
> "ggull" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Peter Dy" > wrote .
> > > "Julian Vrieslander" ...
> > > > "Peter Dy"
> > > > > Clams with black bean sauce is horribly easy to make, btw. You
> should
> > > try
> > > > > it, especially since fresh clams are easy to get in Seattle.
> Stir-fry
> > > > > coarsely chopped ginger, scallions, and black beans until fragrant.
> > Add
> > > the
> > > > > clams. Add a touch of soy sauce, some rice wine, and chicken stock
> or
> > > > > water. Let cook covered for a bit, until the clams open. Remove
> the
> > > clams,
> > > > > and add a mixed starch and water solution to the sauce. Heat a bit,
> > > then
> > > > > pour the sauce over the clams.
> > > >
> > > > Sounds great - I'll have to try this. Thanks for the reply.
> >
> > > I forgot to mention chopped garlic!! The trio of black beans,
> scallions,
> > > and garlic is a classic. The addition of ginger works especially well
> > with
> > > seafood though.
> > >
> > > Well, but you said you've looked at recipes for it, which I'm sure
> include
> > > garlic. Still, just wanted to stress that it's hecka easy to make.
> > >
> > Hmm ... sounds inspiring to action, but is anything other than clams
> > (shellfish in general) good with this sauce? How would it modify the
> > cooking?
>
> Like Arri said, it's great with lots of stuff, though I've never tried it
> plain with noodles. Hmmm... I'll have to try that. With beef slices it's
> also excellent.

Usually it's the leftover sauce I put on noodles. Normally don't make
the sauce just for the noodles, as such.
>
> As for modifications: With sliced beef and pork, I don't use ginger, just
> the trio of garlic, scallions, and black beans--but that's your choice. I
> also like larger pieces of scallions here, like an inch long. I marinate
> the meat in soy, rice wine, sugar, some starch, maybe sesame seed oil. I
> slightly stir-fry the meat, than remove. I reheat the wok, throw in the
> chopped garlic, scallions, and beans until fragrant, then toss the meat back
> in to finish. Sometimes at the end I add a water and starch mixture to give
> it a bit of sauce.
>
> I use the beans straight from the cardboard container and coarsely chop.
> Others like to rinse and/or soak and/or mash the beans into a paste. It's
> up to you.
>
> Still, hella easy.
>
> Peter

Just depends on the beans. The ones from the cardboard containers don't
need rinsing. Some of the 'shop-packaged' ones I've had were too salty
for me without a quick rince. Yes, we never mash the beans, just a
coarse chop.

In article >, "Peter
Dy" > wrote:

> "Monroe, of course..." wrote:
> > Especially the feets - be they trotters or 'fong zhows' (correct me
> > please, Peter D!)
>
> That's right, though the Pinyin spelling would be "feng zhau". Translates
> as "phoenix claws."
>
I can now wow 'em next time I'm out for dim sum! They're never on the
menu but they're always available!

monroe("phoenix claws." I'll be dipped - that's cool!)

"Peter Dy" > wrote
> > With all these differing names...We are talking about Black fermented Soy
> > Beans aren't we?
>
> Yes; "chi3" in Chinese.

It's "chi" in Mandarin only. In Cantonese, it is "si4". The actual
beans is "dau si", the sauce is called "si jap" (never "dau si jap"!)

In another post you mentioned "feng jau" for chicken feet and noted
chicken is usually "ji". Again that is Mandarin, Cantonese is "gaai",
which is relevant at dim sum, because it is a southern chinese custom
where Cantonese is spoken.

I've always heard black beans called Dau tsi or Dau si or Tau tsi.
I'm pretty sure Natto is very different.

"Peter Dy" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Monroe, of course..." > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article > , "Peter Dy"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > "hahabogus" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > "Hal Laurent" > wrote in
> > > > :
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Julian Vrieslander" >
wrote
> in
> > > > > message >
> > > > >
> > > > >> I've never actually tried to make Chinese black bean sauce - just
> > > looked
> > > > >> at recipes. Some of these called for fermented beans, but (if I
> recall
> > > > >> correctly) some just called for dried or canned black beans.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fermented black beans and salted black beans are the same
> > > > > thing. Sometimes you'll see them labeled one way, sometimes
> > > > > the other. Around here (Baltimore) they seem to be most
> > > > > often labeled salted black beans.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hal Laurent
> > > > > Baltimore
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > With all these differing names...We are talking about Black
fermented
> Soy
> > > > Beans aren't we?
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes; "chi3" in Chinese.
> > >
> >
> > Izzat 'natto' in Japanese?
>
>
> I don't know what the Japanese call Chinese black fermented beans, but
> "natto" is a different word using different characters. The second
> character is "bean"; the first character, "nat," means in Chinese, among
> other things, "to sew close stitches (over a patch, etc)", which maybe
> refers to how natto has those thin strings?
>
>
> > monroe(fluent in 0 languages)
>
>
> Peter (has no Japanese dictionary)
>
>

"Jeff Russell" > wrote in message news:<V_roc.76538$0H1.7107490@attbi_s54>...
> I've always heard black beans called Dau tsi or Dau si or Tau tsi.
> I'm pretty sure Natto is very different.
>
> "Peter Dy" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Monroe, of course..." > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article > , "Peter Dy"
> > > > wrote:
> > >(snipped)
> > > > > With all these differing names...We are talking about
> > > > > Black fermented Soy Beans aren't we?
> > > >
> > > > Yes; "chi3" in Chinese.
> > >
> > > Izzat 'natto' in Japanese?
> >
> > I don't know what the Japanese call Chinese black fermented beans, but
> > "natto" is a different word using different characters. The second
> > character is "bean"; the first character, "nat," means in Chinese, among
> > other things, "to sew close stitches (over a patch, etc)", which maybe
> > refers to how natto has those thin strings?
> >
> > > monroe(fluent in 0 languages)
> >
> > Peter (has no Japanese dictionary)

Yes indeed natto IS very different. ...The fermentation process is
very different, in that natto is cultured with a different starter
(the bacterium Bacillus subtilus natto, instead of the mold
Aspergillus oryzae), without salt, over a shorter time period, and
results in a gooey ready-to-eat food covered in interesting bacterial
slime :-)

I am working on developing a taste for natto after meeting it for the
first time very recently.

In article >,
(KR) wrote:

> Yes indeed natto IS very different. ...The fermentation process is
> very different, in that natto is cultured with a different starter
> (the bacterium Bacillus subtilus natto, instead of the mold
> Aspergillus oryzae), without salt, over a shorter time period, and
> results in a gooey ready-to-eat food covered in interesting bacterial
> slime :-)

B. subtilis? Didn't know that. I have heard that rice straw was used in
the 'pre-industrial' inoculating and packaging, etc. It is also made
with black beans as well as soybeans.

> I am working on developing a taste for natto after meeting it for the
> first time very recently.

Our local sushi joint does a natto roll. I've never worked up the
nerve. My girlfriend (also non-asian) likes natto very much (i think
it's from doing the macrobiotic thing once upon a time). She's amazed
many Japanese folks in her time by eating it- there is a definite
perception that foreigners don't like it. Like Scandanavians and their
lutefisk and Scots and their haggis.
Tony Bourdain really slagged it in his "Cook's Tour " book which may be
remarkable considering what he ate for the sake of that show...

monroe(not mikey)

"Monroe, of course..." > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> (KR) wrote:
>
> > Yes indeed natto IS very different. ...The fermentation process is
> > very different, in that natto is cultured with a different starter
> > (the bacterium Bacillus subtilus natto, instead of the mold
> > Aspergillus oryzae), without salt, over a shorter time period, and
> > results in a gooey ready-to-eat food covered in interesting bacterial
> > slime :-)
>
> B. subtilis? Didn't know that. I have heard that rice straw was used in
> the 'pre-industrial' inoculating and packaging, etc. It is also made
> with black beans as well as soybeans.
>
> > I am working on developing a taste for natto after meeting it for the
> > first time very recently.
>
> Our local sushi joint does a natto roll. I've never worked up the
> nerve. My girlfriend (also non-asian) likes natto very much (i think
> it's from doing the macrobiotic thing once upon a time). She's amazed
> many Japanese folks in her time by eating it- there is a definite
> perception that foreigners don't like it. Like Scandanavians and their
> lutefisk and Scots and their haggis.
> Tony Bourdain really slagged it in his "Cook's Tour " book which may be
> remarkable considering what he ate for the sake of that show...
>
> monroe(not mikey)

OK Monroe,

I'll let you away with the haggis gibe. I'm not sure if you've sampled it
(haggis) personally, but it ain't that bad. In fact it's extremely good.

Back on topic, natto. Let me relay a story. The first time I visited Japan
with my wife (who is Japanese) around 10 years ago, I had never met her
parents, and we had been married around 6 months and they didn't know who
the hell I was other than from photo's. I was dreading meeting the in-laws
for the first time. We arrived at their home and I was shattered after a
long flight and a heavy drinking session. I made my polite introductions and
hastily went to bed. Next morning, MIL prepared breakfast. It was natto.
This was my first ever meal in Japan and in front of my in-laws and their
whole family. Let me tell you I could not eat it. The more you try to force
it down the more it wants to come back up. I played around with the bowl for
around half an hour and had to admit defeat. It later transpired that they
had deliberately fed this to me as they knew I would dislike it immensely,
as most foreigners do, and wanted to see through my character. *******s!!

Graeme san (who still can't even look at it)

"Graeme... in London" wrote:

> Back on topic, natto. Let me relay a story. The first time I visited Japan
> with my wife (who is Japanese) around 10 years ago, I had never met her
> parents, and we had been married around 6 months and they didn't know who
> the hell I was other than from photo's. I was dreading meeting the in-laws
> for the first time. We arrived at their home and I was shattered after a
> long flight and a heavy drinking session. I made my polite introductions and
> hastily went to bed. Next morning, MIL prepared breakfast. It was natto.
> This was my first ever meal in Japan and in front of my in-laws and their
> whole family. Let me tell you I could not eat it. The more you try to force
> it down the more it wants to come back up. I played around with the bowl for
> around half an hour and had to admit defeat. It later transpired that they
> had deliberately fed this to me as they knew I would dislike it immensely,
> as most foreigners do, and wanted to see through my character. *******s!!
>
> Graeme san (who still can't even look at it)

Do you speak to them? Because I think that was quite mean spirited.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> "Graeme... in London" wrote:
>
> > Back on topic, natto. Let me relay a story. The first time I visited
Japan
> > with my wife (who is Japanese) around 10 years ago, I had never met her
> > parents, and we had been married around 6 months and they didn't know
who
> > the hell I was other than from photo's. I was dreading meeting the
in-laws
> > for the first time. We arrived at their home and I was shattered after a
> > long flight and a heavy drinking session. I made my polite introductions
and
> > hastily went to bed. Next morning, MIL prepared breakfast. It was natto.
> > This was my first ever meal in Japan and in front of my in-laws and
their
> > whole family. Let me tell you I could not eat it. The more you try to
force
> > it down the more it wants to come back up. I played around with the bowl
for
> > around half an hour and had to admit defeat. It later transpired that
they
> > had deliberately fed this to me as they knew I would dislike it
immensely,
> > as most foreigners do, and wanted to see through my character.
*******s!!
> >
> > Graeme san (who still can't even look at it)
>
> Do you speak to them? Because I think that was quite mean spirited.
>
> nancy

nancy,

The natto was offered, and accepted. I have re-visited Japan on another 9
occasions, and have continually enjoyed every breakfast there since. Just a
really rough introduction to traditional Japanese food.

Graeme (who also had a hangover)

"Graeme... in London" wrote:
>
> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message

> > "Graeme... in London" wrote:

> > > around half an hour and had to admit defeat. It later transpired that
> they
> > > had deliberately fed this to me as they knew I would dislike it
> immensely,
> > > as most foreigners do, and wanted to see through my character.
> *******s!!

> > Do you speak to them? Because I think that was quite mean spirited.

> The natto was offered, and accepted. I have re-visited Japan on another 9
> occasions, and have continually enjoyed every breakfast there since. Just a
> really rough introduction to traditional Japanese food.
>
> Graeme (who also had a hangover)

(laugh) Yeah, I got that. I'm not looking to make trouble, but I
would not appreciate someone deliberately feeding me something they
knew I wouldn't like, especially on first meeting.

I'm happy you've gone back with nicer results.

nancy

"Graeme... in London" > wrote:
> "Monroe, of course..." > wrote in message
> > (KR) wrote:
> >
> > > Yes indeed natto IS very different. ...[] a gooey ready-to-eat food
> > > covered in interesting bacterial slime :-)
> > []
> > Our local sushi joint does a natto roll. []

> OK Monroe,
>
> I'll let you away with the haggis gibe. I'm not sure if you've sampled it
> (haggis) personally, but it ain't that bad. In fact it's extremely good.
>
> Back on topic, natto. [ . . . ] they had deliberately fed this to
> me as they knew I would dislike it immensely, as most foreigners do, and
> wanted to see through my character. *******s!!
>
> Graeme san (who still can't even look at it)

Graeme, you continue to amaze me. Natto is no more slimey than okra and is
delicioso. Try natto temaki, kilty boy!

--
Intuitive insights from Nick, Retired in the San Fernando Valley
"Giving violent criminals a government guarantee that their intended
victims are defenseless is bad public policy."
- John Ross, "Unintended Consequences"
If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read it in English, THANK A VETERAN!

In article >, "Graeme... in London"
> wrote:

> "Monroe, of course..." > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > (KR) wrote:
> >
> > Our local sushi joint does a natto roll. I've never worked up the
> > nerve. My girlfriend (also non-asian) likes natto very much (i think
> > it's from doing the macrobiotic thing once upon a time). She's amazed
> > many Japanese folks in her time by eating it- there is a definite
> > perception that foreigners don't like it. Like Scandanavians and their
> > lutefisk and Scots and their haggis.
> > Tony Bourdain really slagged it in his "Cook's Tour " book which may be
> > remarkable considering what he ate for the sake of that show...
> >
> > monroe(not mikey)
>
> OK Monroe,
>
> I'll let you away with the haggis gibe. I'm not sure if you've sampled it
> (haggis) personally, but it ain't that bad. In fact it's extremely good.

'Twas nae gibe, laddie! I just haven't ever had the opportunity to try
real for true haggis-I got too many tartans I can lay claim to-'tis my
duty to try it, eventually. I have eaten my fair share of meat mush
things like scrapple, c-loaf,souse,headcheese, and the closest thing to
haggis I've had so far-goetta.

> Back on topic, natto. Let me relay a story. The first time I visited Japan
> with my wife (who is Japanese) around 10 years ago, I had never met her
> parents, and we had been married around 6 months and they didn't know who
> the hell I was other than from photo's. I was dreading meeting the in-laws
> for the first time. We arrived at their home and I was shattered after a
> long flight and a heavy drinking session. I made my polite introductions and
> hastily went to bed. Next morning, MIL prepared breakfast. It was natto.
> This was my first ever meal in Japan and in front of my in-laws and their
> whole family. Let me tell you I could not eat it. The more you try to force
> it down the more it wants to come back up. I played around with the bowl for
> around half an hour and had to admit defeat. It later transpired that they
> had deliberately fed this to me as they knew I would dislike it immensely,
> as most foreigners do, and wanted to see through my character. *******s!!
>
Oohh mean! Offer them some Shropshire Blue when they come to visit! I
recall one morning in an Atlantic City Food Court where my girlfriend
amazed some Japanese gamblers with her choice of miso soup and natto
and such for breakfast - they were chowing down on Egg McMuffins.
Every one wanted a picture! A real cross cultural Kodak moment!

monroe(lutefisk & natto - the mind reels)