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Bob wrote:
> Bob (this one) wrote: > >>>Our local Italian deli sells them, one is even a thin tubular, hollow >>>spaghetti, not a cannelloni but a long tubular spaghetti. >> >>Called "bucatini." > > I got a box of bucatini once, and found myself unable to come up with a > recipe which takes advantage of its shape. Most sauce is too thick to > permeate to the middle of the pasta. Is there some traditional use for it? > My best guess at this point is that you're supposed to serve it in broth, > like Japanese udon. No. But it's a funny thing. Because there's a small hole that runs through the middle of each strand, you can't suck them up like you can spaghetti. It's like trying to suck a drinking straw into your mouth. So naturally, that's what we did as kids while the grownups acted like they didn't notice. My northern Italian grandmother served both semolina and whole wheat bucatini with very thick sauces. Usually tomato-based with strong flavor elements (sausage, salty ham, pecorino cheese, etc.), but sometimes a heavy cream sauce (occasionally including fish or seafood). Pastorio |
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Bob wrote: > > I got a box of bucatini once, and found myself unable to come up with a > recipe which takes advantage of its shape. Most sauce is too thick to > permeate to the middle of the pasta. Is there some traditional use for it? > My best guess at this point is that you're supposed to serve it in broth, > like Japanese udon. > > Bob A Greek friend of mine made an awesome dish with it once - maybe it wasn't bucatini but the Greek equivalent. I'm not sure what the dish was - it had a veal/beef sauce which contained (among othe rthings) cinnamon, and was topped with a fluffy white-sauce-like cheesish layer. It was great! -L. |
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-L wrote:
> A Greek friend of mine made an awesome dish with it once - maybe it > wasn't bucatini but the Greek equivalent. I'm not sure what the dish > was - it had a veal/beef sauce which contained (among othe rthings) > cinnamon, and was topped with a fluffy white-sauce-like cheesish layer. > It was great! Maybe you're talking about pastitsio? Here's a recipe chosen at random from Google: (Posted by Jeanette in response to Damsel, October 2002) Prep time: 30 min. Bake time: 35 or so min. Oven: 350° 8 oz. corkscrew pasta (or elbow type) Cook, following pkg directions, till slightly al dente. Drain ell, return to pan & toss with 2-3 T oleo Meat Sauce: 1/2# lean ground beef 1 sm onion, minced 1 clove garlic, minced 1/4 t crushed fennel 1/2 t cinnamon 1/4 t allspice or cloves 1 - 8 oz can tomato sauce 1/2 c water, or slightly more Salt & Pepper to taste 1/4 c parmesan cheese (fresh) In medium skillet, cook ground beef and seasonings till meat is no longer pink. DRAIN FAT. Add tomato sauce and water. Simmer about 20 min. till thickened. Removefrom burner. Add the parmesan cheese and stir well. White Sauce: 4 T oleo/butter 4 T flour 1/4 t pepper 1/2 t salt 2 c milk (use whole, or whatever) 2 slightly beaten eggs 1/4 to 1/2 c feta cheese,crumbled 1/4 t nutmeg Melt oleo in medium saucepan; blend in flour, salt & pepper. Whisk in milk till all is well blended and cook till thickened and bubbly. Gradually whisk part of the hot sauce into lightly beaten eggs. Return all to pan, whisking togther till blended. Stir in feta cheese & nutmeg. Layer half of pasta in 2 qt. square baking dish (9 x 9) sprayed with Pam. Spread meat mixture over pasta. Spread remaining pasta on top of meat mixture. Evenly spread white sauce mixture on top. Shake pan to distribue evenly. Sprinkle with Parmesan cheese. (May be prepared in advance to this point and frozen.) Bake uncovered in 350° oven about 35 min. or till set. Let stand for 10 min. TO FREEZE: Place in freeze-to-oven baking dish. Wrap with foil and freez up to one month. To serve, place in 350° oven for 1-1/2 hours. Uncover during last 20 min. of baking time. (Double batch takes about 1-1/2 hours.) To accompany it: Greek Salad - serves 12 1/2 c extra virgin olive oil 3 T red wine vinegar 3 T lemon juice 2 T chopped oregano (or about 1 T dried) 1 T chopped mint (or dried) Salt & pepper 4 romaine hearts, torn 6 medium tomatoes, cored & cut into wedges 6 Kirby cucumbers, peeled & sliced 1/2 in. thick (or plain cucumbers) 1/2 # feta cheese, crumbled (about 1-1/2 cups) 1 c kalamata olives, pitted (6 oz.) In a small bowl, whisk together the olive oil, lemon juice, oregano and mint. Season with salt & pepper. In a large bowl, combine the romaine, tomatoes, cucumbers, cheese and olives. Toss and serve at once. |
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Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Wed 29 Jun 2005 11:09:10p, Damsel wrote in rec.food.cooking: > > >>JimLane > said: >> >> >>>Slam dunk. Italian pasta DOES exist in four-foot lengths. $1.99 17.6 oz. >> >>Told ya!  >> >>I'd love to find some of that again. You can feed a family of five on 15 >>strands of the stuff. LOL! >> >>Carol >> > > > But at a dollar a strand, it's not really a bargain. :-) > What? Now I gotta go back and count strands? Never any rest. jim |
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Glitter Ninja wrote: > Goomba38 > writes: > > >No need to say "spaghetti noodles" instead of just spaghetti (linguini, > >ravioli, macaroni...) > >It grates on the ear. > > OK, I'll do whatever you say. > By the way, there is a definite need to quote what you're following up > to, so we know what the hell you're talking about. I expect you to now > do what *I* say. > This seems a good a place as any to mention that I am Mightily Entertained when I give Harlan spaghetti, one strand at a time. He is the CUTE! He is also Mightily Entertained, but hasn't mentioned whether he thinks I am the cute. |
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"Bob (this one)" wrote:
> > Kate Connally wrote: > > Joseph Littleshoes wrote: > > > >> Kate Connally wrote: > >> > >>> Damsel wrote: > >>> > >>>> When I was a kid, we got boxes of spaghetti that were about 4 > >>>> inches square on the ends, and around 3 feet long. The pasta > >>>> inside was folded in half, so you were talking strands at least > >>>> 5-1/2 feet long. One or two were all that a fork could hold. > >>> > >>> Good grief! How did you get them into the pot to cook them if > >>> they were that long? Even folded in half they'd be too big for > >>> any pot I've ever seen. > > Spaghetti will soften and become flexible within seconds of being put > into rapidly boiling water. NOT in my experience!!! > The pot merely needs to be able to hold the > appropriate amount of water. Well, the pot is full - holds about 2 gallons of water! > >> The Chinese method of making long spaghetti like noodles produces 4 > >> - 5 foot long strands. > > > > Yeah, I know about that. Not the same thing. I'm talking regular > > dried spaghetti in a box. > > How about in a clear plastic bag? Whatever. > >>> Even foot-long spaghetti is tough to get under the water all at > >>> once, so I can't even begin to see how people would manage > >>> anything longer. I suspect it was meant to be broken into more > >>> manageable lengths when put in the pot. > >> > >>> That is how it is most often cooked but it can be cooked whole in a > >>> tall pot. It quickly softens and folds itself into the water. > > > > Not my experience, but it might happen that way with really fine > > spaghettini or angel hair. The "regular" size spaghetti, which is > > what I prefer, takes forever to soften enough to get it all under the > > water. > > "Forever" is about a minute with rapidly boiling water in sufficient > quantity. Well, duh! A minute *is* forever when you're trying to get the spaghetti in the water. > At least a gallon per pound. Less than that and the water > temperature drops significantly and it won't come back to a boil very > quickly. So the pasta isn't at an appropriate level of turbulence and > temperature. Stirring it often adds to the natural convection and > turbulence of boiling. All necessary to get it done properly. Okay, but this wasn't part of the discussion. Just getting the spaghetti to soften enough to bend and get it all under the water. The other points you are making are moot. > > I don't cook mine in a tall stockpot but in my dutch oven > > and even the regular foot-long stuff doesn't go completely under the > > water until it has softened up enough to bend. > > That's too wide and shallow a pot and not enough water. You want a tall, > narrow pot to keep the water boiling hard. No, I don't. If I did I would use one. It is too cumbersome to use the big stockpot in most instances. I've been using the other pot for over 30 years and it works fine. The problem is that the spaghetti is too long! Sheesh! And it takes "forever" to soften enough to get under the water. > A wide-topped pot has too > much surface area for water to evaporate from, and the extra evaporation > keeps the water from a full, hard boil. My dutch oven is the same diameter as my stock pot! > A pound of pasta, any shape, > dropped into a gallon of boiling water should return to a full, rolling > boil in no more than two minutes. All stranded pasta will flex enough to > submerge in that time. 2 minutes? Yikes! That's like *forever and a day*! Sheesh! Kate |
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Goomba38 wrote:
> > No need to say "spaghetti noodles" instead of just spaghetti (linguini, > ravioli, macaroni...) > It grates on the ear. Same as when people add an "s" to ravioli (which > is already plural) so the "s" is inappropriate. > Rant Over. > Carry On  Well, sometimes, if you're trying to differentiate between the dish (spaghetti noodles topped with sauce) and the actual noodle (sans sauce) it might be okay to say "spaghetti noodles" so that people don't think you're referring to the dish. Although you could just say "noodles" and that would do in many cases but I can see where there might be a case where you really need to say "spaghetti noodles". :-) Kate |
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Kate Connally > wrote in :
> The problem is that the spaghetti is too long! Your tryin' start an optimist/pessimist debate??? The pot is simply the wrong shape!  -- Andy http://tinyurl.com/bczgr |
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On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 02:18:29 -0400, Bob (this one) wrote:
> > But it's a funny thing. Because there's a small hole that runs through > the middle of each strand, you can't suck them up like you can > spaghetti. It's like trying to suck a drinking straw into your mouth. So > naturally, that's what we did as kids while the grownups acted like they > didn't notice. > Does the "ini" part of bucatini refer to the hole? They don't twirl well either... although I have a package in the cupboard as we speak, I rarely use it because I'm usually at a loss about what to do with it too. It's just plain hard to eat w/o cutting. LOL > My northern Italian grandmother served both semolina and whole wheat > bucatini with very thick sauces. Usually tomato-based with strong flavor > elements (sausage, salty ham, pecorino cheese, etc.), but sometimes a > heavy cream sauce (occasionally including fish or seafood). Did she serve the bucatini whole? Can you give us the basic recipe (or at least a grandma style one) for her cream sauce? |
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On Thu 30 Jun 2005 08:32:02a, Kate Connally wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> Goomba38 wrote: >> >> No need to say "spaghetti noodles" instead of just spaghetti (linguini, >> ravioli, macaroni...) It grates on the ear. Same as when people add an >> "s" to ravioli (which is already plural) so the "s" is inappropriate. >> Rant Over. >> Carry On > > Well, sometimes, if you're trying to differentiate > between the dish (spaghetti noodles topped with > sauce) and the actual noodle (sans sauce) it might > be okay to say "spaghetti noodles" so that people > don't think you're referring to the dish. Although > you could just say "noodles" and that would do in > many cases but I can see where there might be a case > where you really need to say "spaghetti noodles". :-) > > Kate > But if you just say "noodles" that could mean damn near anything. All kinds of noodles come to mind, none of them at all like spaghetti. -- Wayne Boatwright *ż* ____________________________________________ Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day. Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974 --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0526-3, 06/30/2005 Tested on: 6/30/2005 9:19:33 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
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On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:08:27 -0400, Bob (this one) wrote:
> > It's interesting. You don't see Italians use the spoon technique until > you get towards the south. Northerners pull a few strands out of the > pile and twirl them on the plate onto the fork. You'll see more > Neapolitans and Sicilians using spoons. Different understanding of > what's "proper." One set of my grandparents were northerners; the other > Sicilian. Meals were exhausting. > I imagine that the proper way to speak "Italian" was also discussed at length! For instance, I read that the dialect spoken in Alghero (a town in/on Sardinia) is actually a derivative of Catalan - which is a language that is spoken in Spain (in the region around Barcelona). |
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On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 08:46:58 -0600, Kevin S. Wilson
> wrote: >On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:00:38 +0000 (UTC), (Glitter >Ninja) wrote: > >>Goomba38 > writes: >> >>>No need to say "spaghetti noodles" instead of just spaghetti (linguini, >>>ravioli, macaroni...) >>>It grates on the ear. >> >> OK, I'll do whatever you say. > >Not so fast. Goomba (if that is his real name) would be correct except >for one troublesome fact: linguini, ravioli, and macaroni all >originated in Italy, while spaghetti noodles is an Americanized type >of Italian pasta that has always been referred to as "spaghetti >noodles." The development of spaghetti noodles is similar to that of >chow mein, a "Chinese" dish that originated in San Francisco, >California. Methinks KevinS has been eating too much Chef-Boy-R-Dee pasta-and-yecchhh in a can. (It leads to 't-rolls', a serious gastric ailment, sometimes fatal.) "Spaghetti noodles" sounds redundant to me, if not superfluous. Like "steak meat" or "salmon fish" or "automobile car". I don't know that it grates on the ear, so much; I'll leave that to the parmesan. Also, I'm more than certain that 'spaghetti' originated in Italy. Much like the "New York strip" steak didn't originate in NY, but rather alongside the many early British who whipped up Yorkshire 'pudding'. Of course, when "beef meat" came to the "new world" it had to be named something different. Ipso facto and ta-da!: "New York strip" (fnarr). Salivatingly, TomH -- TomH [ antonomasia <at> gmail <dot>com ] |
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On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:00:38 +0000 (UTC), (Glitter > Ninja) wrote: > >> Goomba38 > writes: >> >>> No need to say "spaghetti noodles" instead of just spaghetti (linguini, >>> ravioli, macaroni...) >>> It grates on the ear. >> >> OK, I'll do whatever you say. > > Not so fast. Goomba (if that is his real name) would be correct except > for one troublesome fact: linguini, ravioli, and macaroni all > originated in Italy, while spaghetti noodles is an Americanized type of > Italian pasta that has always been referred to as "spaghetti noodles." > The development of spaghetti noodles is similar to that of chow mein, a > "Chinese" dish that originated in San Francisco, California. Also, we are writing in American English, not Italian. (Well, Goomba might be speaking some other bastar^Wvariation of English.) To some "spaghetti" is short of "spaghetti dinner", so to speak of "spaghetti" is to speak of a particular preparation of spaghetti noodles, marinara sauce, and delicious garlic bread. So "spaghetti noodles" is a valid way to specify an ingredient, as we don't have another name for them. --Jeremy [1] Similarly, in American "salsa" refers to a specific preparation of fruits, vegetables, and seasonings. In Spanish, it just means "sauce". My point, and I do have one, is that when we borrow a word from another language, we don't necessarily borrow the meaning. -- Jeremy Impson jdimpson can be contacted at acm dot org http://impson.tzo.com/~jdimpson |
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JimLane > said:
> Wayne Boatwright wrote: > > On Wed 29 Jun 2005 11:09:10p, Damsel wrote in rec.food.cooking: > > > >>JimLane > said: > >> > >>>Slam dunk. Italian pasta DOES exist in four-foot lengths. $1.99 17.6 oz. > >> > >>Told ya! > >> > >>I'd love to find some of that again. You can feed a family of five on 15 > >>strands of the stuff. LOL! > > > > But at a dollar a strand, it's not really a bargain. :-) > > What? Now I gotta go back and count strands? Never any rest. You mean <gulp> you didn't buy a package??? Carol -- Coming at you live, from beautiful Lake Woebegon |
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On Thu 30 Jun 2005 12:14:15p, Damsel wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> JimLane > said: > >> Wayne Boatwright wrote: >> > On Wed 29 Jun 2005 11:09:10p, Damsel wrote in rec.food.cooking: >> > >> >>JimLane > said: >> >> >> >>>Slam dunk. Italian pasta DOES exist in four-foot lengths. $1.99 17.6 >> >>>oz. >> >> >> >>Told ya! >> >> >> >>I'd love to find some of that again. You can feed a family of five >> >>on 15 strands of the stuff. LOL! >> > >> > But at a dollar a strand, it's not really a bargain. :-) >> >> What? Now I gotta go back and count strands? Never any rest. > > You mean <gulp> you didn't buy a package??? > > Carol > $4.99 for a 5 strand package? Dinner party? You each get half a strand and lotsa sauce. -- Wayne Boatwright *ż* ____________________________________________ Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day. Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974 --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0526-3, 06/30/2005 Tested on: 6/30/2005 12:19:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
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Damsel wrote:
> JimLane > said: > > >>Wayne Boatwright wrote: >> >>>On Wed 29 Jun 2005 11:09:10p, Damsel wrote in rec.food.cooking: >>> >>> >>>>JimLane > said: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Slam dunk. Italian pasta DOES exist in four-foot lengths. $1.99 17.6 oz. >>>> >>>>Told ya! >>>> >>>>I'd love to find some of that again. You can feed a family of five on 15 >>>>strands of the stuff. LOL! >>> >>>But at a dollar a strand, it's not really a bargain. :-) >> >>What? Now I gotta go back and count strands? Never any rest. > > > You mean <gulp> you didn't buy a package??? > > Carol > I've seen this long pasta elsewhere in San Diego - perhaps in Little Italy, so its no big deal. I forgot to mention, the pasta has a "rustic" appearance compared to most pastas, more home madeish. jim |
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Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> > $4.99 for a 5 strand package? Dinner party? You each get half a strand > and lotsa sauce. > Well, Wayne, if the pasta in your neighborhood weighs in at 17.6 ounces for a four-foot strand, I'd switch my diet and not worry about the price. ;-> jim |
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"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message ... > On Thu 30 Jun 2005 12:14:15p, Damsel wrote in rec.food.cooking: > >> JimLane > said: >> >>> Wayne Boatwright wrote: >>> > On Wed 29 Jun 2005 11:09:10p, Damsel wrote in rec.food.cooking: >>> > >>> >>JimLane > said: >>> >> >>> >>>Slam dunk. Italian pasta DOES exist in four-foot lengths. $1.99 >>> >>>17.6 >>> >>>oz. >>> >> >>> >>Told ya! >>> >> >>> >>I'd love to find some of that again. You can feed a family of >>> >>five >>> >>on 15 strands of the stuff. LOL! >>> > >>> > But at a dollar a strand, it's not really a bargain. :-) >>> >>> What? Now I gotta go back and count strands? Never any rest. >> >> You mean <gulp> you didn't buy a package??? >> >> Carol >> > > $4.99 for a 5 strand package? Dinner party? You each get half a > strand > and lotsa sauce. LOL |
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Jeremy D. Impson wrote:
So "spaghetti noodles" is a valid > way to specify an ingredient, as we don't have another name for them. However, it is redundant, but if you need that to understand what spaghetti is, that's a personal problem. Spaghetti is the noodle, how you chose to dress it or not, is another matter. Spaghetti carbonara- spaghetti with carbonara sauce, not spaghetti noodles with carbonara. Same situation for panini sandwiches, a redundancy. jim |
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Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Thu 30 Jun 2005 08:32:02a, Kate Connally wrote in rec.food.cooking: > > >>Goomba38 wrote: >> >>>No need to say "spaghetti noodles" instead of just spaghetti (linguini, >>>ravioli, macaroni...) It grates on the ear. Same as when people add an >>>"s" to ravioli (which is already plural) so the "s" is inappropriate. >>>Rant Over. >>>Carry On >> >>Well, sometimes, if you're trying to differentiate >>between the dish (spaghetti noodles topped with >>sauce) and the actual noodle (sans sauce) it might >>be okay to say "spaghetti noodles" so that people >>don't think you're referring to the dish. Although >>you could just say "noodles" and that would do in >>many cases but I can see where there might be a case >>where you really need to say "spaghetti noodles". :-) >> >>Kate >> > > > But if you just say "noodles" that could mean damn near anything. All > kinds of noodles come to mind, none of them at all like spaghetti. > I'm thinking we've noodled this to death. Or is there some more in your noodle on noodles? ;-> jim |
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JimLane wrote:
In following up, these four-foot lengths are pikers compared to the length of the noodles when they are "swirled." I suspect that the length of the capalini, linguini, whatever is much, much longer. It is far easier to handle though, being about the size of a smallish, frozen chicken pie. jim |
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"JimLane" > wrote
> So "spaghetti noodles" is a valid > > way to specify an ingredient, as we don't have another name for them. > > However, it is redundant, but if you need that to understand what > spaghetti is, that's a personal problem. > > Spaghetti is the noodle, how you chose to dress it or not, is another > matter. Oh, right, so when an American kid says "We're having spaghetti for lunch", he means a big heaping plate of nothing but plain noodles -- no sauce, no cheese, and no beef hamburger. Right. When I order spaghetti at Lorena's Italian Restaurant (which I do about once a week), I don't have to tell them I'd also like the above ingredients put on it. --oTTo-- |
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Jeremy D. Impson wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Kevin S. Wilson wrote: > >> On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:00:38 +0000 (UTC), (Glitter >> Ninja) wrote: >> >>> Goomba38 > writes: >>> >>>> No need to say "spaghetti noodles" instead of just spaghetti (linguini, >>>> ravioli, macaroni...) >>>> It grates on the ear. >>> >>> >>> OK, I'll do whatever you say. >> >> >> Not so fast. Goomba (if that is his real name) would be correct except >> for one troublesome fact: linguini, ravioli, and macaroni all >> originated in Italy, while spaghetti noodles is an Americanized type >> of Italian pasta that has always been referred to as "spaghetti >> noodles." The development of spaghetti noodles is similar to that of >> chow mein, a "Chinese" dish that originated in San Francisco, California. > > > Also, we are writing in American English, not Italian. (Well, Goomba > might be speaking some other bastar^Wvariation of English.) To some > "spaghetti" is short of "spaghetti dinner", so to speak of "spaghetti" > is to speak of a particular preparation of spaghetti noodles, marinara > sauce, and delicious garlic bread. So "spaghetti noodles" is a valid > way to specify an ingredient, as we don't have another name for them. > > --Jeremy > > [1] Similarly, in American "salsa" refers to a specific preparation of > fruits, vegetables, and seasonings. In Spanish, it just means "sauce". > My point, and I do have one, is that when we borrow a word from another > language, we don't necessarily borrow the meaning. > Is there any proof that English borrows words?? I mean, have we ever given one back? Do we pay for a replacement if we break one? How does this work? -- Matthew I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion, I'll sell you one. Which one do you want? |
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Wind the spaghetti around your chopsticks, of course. Noodles came from China originally. Nadia Damsel wrote: > When I was a kid, we got boxes of spaghetti that were about 4 inches square > on the ends, and around 3 feet long. The pasta inside was folded in half, > so you were talking strands at least 5-1/2 feet long. One or two were all > that a fork could hold. > > We twirled the cooked pasta by holding the tines of our forks against a > soup spoon and twirling. > > I die inside, just a little, when I see someone chop their spaghetti into > little pieces. Never could get the hang of twirling against the plate. > > How do *you* get 'sketti from the plate to your mouth? > > Carol > > -- > Coming at you live, from beautiful Lake Woebegon |
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Kevin S. Wilson > said:
> Not so fast. Goomba (if that is his real name) Hey, Goomba! When was the sex change operation? > would be correct except > for one troublesome fact: linguini, ravioli, and macaroni all > originated in Italy, while spaghetti noodles is an Americanized type > of Italian pasta that has always been referred to as "spaghetti > noodles." Spaghetti has never been referred to as "spaghetti noodles" in this household, or any other of which I've been a part. In fact, I view (correctly or incorrectly) pasta and noodles as being two separate things. Carol -- Coming at you live, from beautiful Lake Woebegon |
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Otto Bahn wrote: > Oh, right, so when an American kid says "We're having > spaghetti for lunch", he means a big heaping plate of > nothing but plain noodles -- no sauce, no cheese, and > no beef hamburger. Right. > > When I order spaghetti at Lorena's Italian Restaurant > (which I do about once a week), I don't have to tell > them I'd also like the above ingredients put on it. that's because we americans have *******ized the meaning of 'spaghetti' into something that would better be described as 'spaghetti bolognese' as opposed to spaghetti carbonara or spaghetti marinara or spaghetti calabrese or any of the other many recipes. spaghetti IS the noodle. and there are plenty of things to do with it that do not involve a tomato. mmmm even spaghetti, garlic, mushrooms, olive oil and parmesan cheese and fresh cracked black pepper kicks ass bit i wouldn't call it 'spaghetti' |
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"Jeremy D. Impson" > writes:
>Also, we are writing in American English, not Italian. (Well, Goomba >might be speaking some other bastar^Wvariation of English.) To some >"spaghetti" is short of "spaghetti dinner" Mmmm. Kraft Dinner. Stacia |
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On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:44:04 -0400, "Matthew L. Martin"
> wrote: >> "Spaghetti noodles" sounds redundant to me, if not >> superfluous. Like "steak meat" or "salmon fish" or >> "automobile car". I don't know that it grates on the ear, >> so much; I'll leave that to the parmesan. > >Tuna fish sandwich? No thanks, I just ate dinn.... I mean, Yes, exactly. Cheerios cereal? (Like anything else is called 'cheerios'.) -- TomH [ antonomasia <at> gmail <dot>com ] |
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Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:00:38 +0000 (UTC), (Glitter > Ninja) wrote: > >>Goomba38 > writes: >> >>>No need to say "spaghetti noodles" instead of just spaghetti (linguini, >>>ravioli, macaroni...) >>>It grates on the ear. >> >> OK, I'll do whatever you say. > > Not so fast. Goomba (if that is his real name) would be correct except > for one troublesome fact: linguini, ravioli, and macaroni all > originated in Italy, while spaghetti noodles is an Americanized type > of Italian pasta that has always been referred to as "spaghetti > noodles." The development of spaghetti noodles is similar to that of > chow mein, a "Chinese" dish that originated in San Francisco, > California. This is dead, dead wrong. Spago means string. Spaghetti means little strings (spaghetto in singular). Spaghettini means very little strings. As Italian as can be. Spaghetti alla chitarra (key-tar-ra)has been a staple of Italian cuisine for centuries. It literally means spaghetti made on a guitar and was originally made by putting many thin wires very close to each other on a wooden frame reminiscent of a guitar, but much, much closer together, and pushing flat sheets of pasta dough against them, cutting the dough onto long, narrow strands. Later, but still centuries back, Italians made spaghetti as we do today, extruded through dies. No one says spaghetti noodles who knows anything about pasta. Noodles is an adaptation of the German words nudel and nudeln which are essentially the equivalent words for pasta. Related to knödel (the K is pronounced) which is a sort of like an Italian gnoccho (note spelling of singular). In Germany, they say spaghetti, ravioli and lasagne (lasagna singular). And they say nudeln. A medium-width nudel I had there was called bandenudeln or, loosely, ribbon noodle. The Italian would be either tagliatelle (tahl-ya-tel-leh) (cut pasta - tagliare [tahl-yar-eh] is to cut) or fettuce (feh-too-cheh - ribbon) or fettucine (small or narrow ribbon) ribbon pasta. Spaghetti is very Italian. Pastorio |
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sf wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 02:18:29 -0400, Bob (this one) wrote: > >> But it's a funny thing. Because there's a small hole that runs through >> the middle of each strand, you can't suck them up like you can >> spaghetti. It's like trying to suck a drinking straw into your mouth. So >> naturally, that's what we did as kids while the grownups acted like they >> didn't notice. >> > Does the "ini" part of bucatini refer to the hole? buco = hole -tini (suffix) = small > They don't twirl > well either... although I have a package in the cupboard as we speak, > I rarely use it because I'm usually at a loss about what to do with it > too. It's just plain hard to eat w/o cutting. LOL I think it's a parallel to Norwegian lutefisk. They invented it as a practical joke for foreigners and the slow of wit. Must be why she served them to us. >> My northern Italian grandmother served both semolina and whole wheat >> bucatini with very thick sauces. Usually tomato-based with strong flavor >> elements (sausage, salty ham, pecorino cheese, etc.), but sometimes a >> heavy cream sauce (occasionally including fish or seafood). > > Did she serve the bucatini whole? Can you give us the basic recipe > (or at least a grandma style one) for her cream sauce? Easy enough. A little butter to wet the bottom of a skillet, maybe two tablespoons on medium heat. Two very smashed and minced cloves of garlic dropped into the butter and sauteed for maybe two minutes. A good pinch of "dark salt" (what she called sea salt - they were from near Venice); one oil-packed, roasted, red pepper minced coarsely; three strips of bacon or pancetta, finely chopped. About a pint of cream, brought to a hard boil and reduced to about half - until it coated a spoon. Then, maybe 30 seconds before serving, a handful of finely minced raw shrimp - maybe 4 or 5 ounces. Drain pasta (reserving about 1/2 cup of the cooking water and dump into a bowl. Pour water over and then cream sauce. Toss and serve. If shrimp or fish, no parmesan. If chicken, ham or any other meat, a generous grating of parmesan cheese. This works for virtually any pasta. In later years, I've made it with roasted garlic puree, roasted pepper puree and a hell of a lot more shrimp. Occasionally get wild and crazy and drop in crumbled gorgonzola. Made it a few times with chopped smoked salmon and it's wonderful. And - horror - I put parmesan on it, seafood or not. Pastorio |
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sf wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:08:27 -0400, Bob (this one) wrote: > >> >> It's interesting. You don't see Italians use the spoon technique until >> you get towards the south. Northerners pull a few strands out of the >> pile and twirl them on the plate onto the fork. You'll see more >> Neapolitans and Sicilians using spoons. Different understanding of >> what's "proper." One set of my grandparents were northerners; the other >> Sicilian. Meals were exhausting. >> > I imagine that the proper way to speak "Italian" was also discussed at > length! Actually, almost nothing was discussed directly. > For instance, I read that the dialect spoken in Alghero (a > town in/on Sardinia) is actually a derivative of Catalan - which is a > language that is spoken in Spain (in the region around Barcelona). Italy wasn't a single country until the mid-1800's. Until then it was a whole bunch of emotional, arm-waving city-states with great music, art, architecture and food. My grandparents couldn't speak to each other. Two were from near Venice and the alps. Two were Sicilian. I translated, even as a fairly young kid. I had to learn the bad words from my cousins; the adults were careful to offer insults only in dignified language. The "proper" way to speak Italian is however the person who raises the subject speaks. Everybody knows that. It's that old, "Of course, it's correct. *I'm* doing it" thing... Pastorio |
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nadiarosina wrote:
> Wind the spaghetti around your chopsticks, of course. Noodles came from > China originally. > Nadia Sorry. No. That old story is simply not true. Here's way more than most people want to know about pasta history. <http://www.cliffordawright.com/history/macaroni.html> Pastorio > Damsel wrote: > >>When I was a kid, we got boxes of spaghetti that were about 4 inches square >>on the ends, and around 3 feet long. The pasta inside was folded in half, >>so you were talking strands at least 5-1/2 feet long. One or two were all >>that a fork could hold. >> >>We twirled the cooked pasta by holding the tines of our forks against a >>soup spoon and twirling. >> >>I die inside, just a little, when I see someone chop their spaghetti into >>little pieces. Never could get the hang of twirling against the plate. >> >>How do *you* get 'sketti from the plate to your mouth? >> >>Carol >> >>-- >>Coming at you live, from beautiful Lake Woebegon > > |
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Otto Bahn wrote:
> "JimLane" > wrote > > >>So "spaghetti noodles" is a valid >> >>>way to specify an ingredient, as we don't have another name for them. >> >>However, it is redundant, but if you need that to understand what >>spaghetti is, that's a personal problem. >> >>Spaghetti is the noodle, how you chose to dress it or not, is another >>matter. > > > Oh, right, so when an American kid says "We're having > spaghetti for lunch", he means a big heaping plate of > nothing but plain noodles -- no sauce, no cheese, and > no beef hamburger. Right. > > When I order spaghetti at Lorena's Italian Restaurant > (which I do about once a week), I don't have to tell > them I'd also like the above ingredients put on it. > > --oTTo-- > > > I was going to make a quip about us ignorant 'mericans but decided it would go over your head. Common usage and correct usage are not necessarily the same thing. jim |
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Bob wrote: > -L wrote: > > > A Greek friend of mine made an awesome dish with it once - maybe it > > wasn't bucatini but the Greek equivalent. I'm not sure what the dish > > was - it had a veal/beef sauce which contained (among othe rthings) > > cinnamon, and was topped with a fluffy white-sauce-like cheesish layer. > > It was great! > > Maybe you're talking about pastitsio? Here's a recipe chosen at random from > Google: Yes, I think that's it! Thanks! -L. |
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"Bob (this one)" > said:
> sf wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 02:18:29 -0400, Bob (this one) wrote: > > > >> But it's a funny thing. Because there's a small hole that runs through > >> the middle of each strand, you can't suck them up like you can > >> spaghetti. It's like trying to suck a drinking straw into your mouth. So > >> naturally, that's what we did as kids while the grownups acted like they > >> didn't notice. > >> > > Does the "ini" part of bucatini refer to the hole? > > buco = hole > -tini (suffix) = small Is this the stuff they make Beef-a-Roni with? I really hate that stuff, but I love the pasta that's in it. Carol -- Coming at you live, from beautiful Lake Woebegon |
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"A.C." > wrote in message ... > > Otto Bahn wrote: > > > > Oh, right, so when an American kid says "We're having > > spaghetti for lunch", he means a big heaping plate of > > nothing but plain noodles -- no sauce, no cheese, and > > no beef hamburger. Right. > > > > When I order spaghetti at Lorena's Italian Restaurant > > (which I do about once a week), I don't have to tell > > them I'd also like the above ingredients put on it. > > that's because we americans have *******ized the meaning of 'spaghetti' into > something Exactly my point. > that would better be described as 'spaghetti bolognese' That's just a value judgement better left unsaid. > as opposed to > spaghetti carbonara or spaghetti marinara or spaghetti calabrese or any of the Those modifiers still make sense in America to distinguish them from normal spaghetti. > other many recipes. spaghetti IS the noodle. and there are plenty of things to > do with it that do not involve a tomato. mmmm even spaghetti, garlic, mushrooms, > olive oil and parmesan cheese and fresh cracked black pepper kicks ass bit i > wouldn't call it 'spaghetti' Do you pronounce it "Italy" or "Italia" or "China"? --oTTo-- |
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"JimLane" > wrote in message ...
> >>So "spaghetti noodles" is a valid > >> > >>>way to specify an ingredient, as we don't have another name for them. > >> > >>However, it is redundant, but if you need that to understand what > >>spaghetti is, that's a personal problem. > >> > >>Spaghetti is the noodle, how you chose to dress it or not, is another > >>matter. > > > > > > Oh, right, so when an American kid says "We're having > > spaghetti for lunch", he means a big heaping plate of > > nothing but plain noodles -- no sauce, no cheese, and > > no beef hamburger. Right. > > > > When I order spaghetti at Lorena's Italian Restaurant > > (which I do about once a week), I don't have to tell > > them I'd also like the above ingredients put on it. > > I was going to make a quip about us ignorant 'mericans but decided it > would go over your head. Common usage and correct usage are not > necessarily the same thing. Language evolves, unlike people who don't reproduce. --oTTo-- |
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Otto Bahn wrote:
> "A.C." > wrote in message ... > >>Otto Bahn wrote: >> >>>Oh, right, so when an American kid says "We're having >>>spaghetti for lunch", he means a big heaping plate of >>>nothing but plain noodles -- no sauce, no cheese, and >>>no beef hamburger. Right. >>> >>>When I order spaghetti at Lorena's Italian Restaurant >>>(which I do about once a week), I don't have to tell >>>them I'd also like the above ingredients put on it. >> >>that's because we americans have *******ized the meaning of 'spaghetti' into >>something > > Exactly my point. > >>that would better be described as 'spaghetti bolognese' > > That's just a value judgement better left unsaid. > >>as opposed to >>spaghetti carbonara or spaghetti marinara or spaghetti calabrese or any of the > > Those modifiers still make sense in America to distinguish > them from normal spaghetti. > >>other many recipes. spaghetti IS the noodle. and there are plenty of things to >>do with it that do not involve a tomato. mmmm even spaghetti, garlic, mushrooms, >>olive oil and parmesan cheese and fresh cracked black pepper kicks ass bit i >>wouldn't call it 'spaghetti' > > Do you pronounce it "Italy" or "Italia" or "China"? Amazing how much misinformation can be crammed into so few words. And how enormously scant the understanding is. Truly an outstanding job. No, seriously... Pastorio |
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