A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
the entire month of July, and probably well into August.

What do others who've gone through this kind of thing have to
offer in the way of survival tips?

I have a good gas grill and a propane cooker, so any prepar-
ation not requiring an oven is probably not an issue. I'm
thinking more in terms of storage and cleanup.

Thanks!

--
Mark Shaw
================================================== ======================
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny....'" - Isaac Asimov

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:05:23 +0000 (UTC), Mark Shaw
> wrote:

>A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
>on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
>I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
>the entire month of July, and probably well into August.

.... and September... and October...

>What do others who've gone through this kind of thing have to
>offer in the way of survival tips?
>
>I have a good gas grill and a propane cooker, so any prepar-
>ation not requiring an oven is probably not an issue. I'm
>thinking more in terms of storage and cleanup.

When I was a kid we lived through a major renovation of our house.
Food prep was in the dining room and it was crowded. It was just a
hassle and there's no way around it. You'll have to make it up as you
go along. Fortunately, the pain is forgotten after a few days in the
completed kitchen (and "completed" is the keyword here!).

Paper plates, plastic cutlery, and for easy clean-up, don't cook
anything with major grease!

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

On Thu 30 Jun 2005 07:05:23a, Mark Shaw wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
> on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
> I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
> the entire month of July, and probably well into August.
>
> What do others who've gone through this kind of thing have to
> offer in the way of survival tips?
>
> I have a good gas grill and a propane cooker, so any prepar-
> ation not requiring an oven is probably not an issue. I'm
> thinking more in terms of storage and cleanup.
>
> Thanks!
>

Worst case for cold food storage, a cooler and ice. Better to buy a small
refrigerator that you could use as an extra in the pantry or garage.

Disposable plastic or paper plates and plastic utensils are easiest. If
you must wash up, a utility room sink or the bathroom are about the only
options I can think of.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974


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Mark Shaw wrote:

> A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
> on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
> I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
> the entire month of July, and probably well into August.
>
> What do others who've gone through this kind of thing have to
> offer in the way of survival tips?
>
> I have a good gas grill and a propane cooker, so any prepar-
> ation not requiring an oven is probably not an issue. I'm
> thinking more in terms of storage and cleanup.
>

A month to redo a kitchen? Mine was a matter of days. The cupboards had
been ordered ahead of time and I was given an installation date. I had to
rip out the old cupboards and counters. That took a few hours. When I got
home from work the next day the now cupboards and counter were in place. I
had to cut a whole for the sink and hook that up.... another hour and a
half. The kitchen was then usable but I had to paint and paper. A few
years later we did the floors, ripping up the old tiles and had a
contractor lay a cement lathe in preparation for ceramic tiles. That
involved one day of work on the lathe, let it sit for a day and then the
tile was laid on the third day. A professional crew should be able to do a
kitchen within a week.

Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
> On Thu 30 Jun 2005 07:05:23a, Mark Shaw wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> > What do others who've gone through this kind of thing have to
> > offer in the way of survival tips?

> Worst case for cold food storage, a cooler and ice. Better to buy a small
> refrigerator that you could use as an extra in the pantry or garage.

We're planning to just move the kitchen fridge a few feet into
the living room, so that ought to be covered.

It's the only one of the appliances we're keeping....

> Disposable plastic or paper plates and plastic utensils are easiest. If
> you must wash up, a utility room sink or the bathroom are about the only
> options I can think of.

I was thinking of a washtub and a garden hose out in the alley,
actually. And after dark.

--
Mark Shaw
================================================== ======================
"Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of mnshaw@
celestial fire called conscience." - George Washington gmail.com

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu 30 Jun 2005 07:05:23a, Mark Shaw wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
> > A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
> > on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
> > I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
> > the entire month of July, and probably well into August.
> >
> >
> > I have a good gas grill and a propane cooker, so any prepar-
> > ation not requiring an oven is probably not an issue. I'm
> > thinking more in terms of storage and cleanup.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>
> Worst case for cold food storage, a cooler and ice. Better to buy a small
> refrigerator that you could use as an extra in the pantry or garage.
>
> Disposable plastic or paper plates and plastic utensils are easiest. If
> you must wash up, a utility room sink or the bathroom are about the only
> options I can think of.
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright *¿*


A bathtub works great too! (Not everyone has a dishwasher or a large
kitchen sink..........)

kili

On Thu 30 Jun 2005 07:51:08a, Mark Shaw wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>> On Thu 30 Jun 2005 07:05:23a, Mark Shaw wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>> > What do others who've gone through this kind of thing have to offer
>> > in the way of survival tips?
>
>> Worst case for cold food storage, a cooler and ice. Better to buy a
>> small refrigerator that you could use as an extra in the pantry or
>> garage.
>
> We're planning to just move the kitchen fridge a few feet into
> the living room, so that ought to be covered.
>
> It's the only one of the appliances we're keeping....
>
>> Disposable plastic or paper plates and plastic utensils are easiest.
>> If you must wash up, a utility room sink or the bathroom are about the
>> only options I can think of.
>
> I was thinking of a washtub and a garden hose out in the alley,
> actually. And after dark.
>

That'll work!

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974


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Mark Shaw > wrote:

>A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
>on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
>I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
>the entire month of July, and probably well into August.
>
>What do others who've gone through this kind of thing have to
>offer in the way of survival tips?

We moved the fridge to the basement. Used the microwave, a propane
burner either outside or in garage (depending on weather) and a
toaster oven. Now and then the grill. It wasn't as bad as you might
think. The dust and filth was much more bothersome. (Change your
furnace filters weekly).

--
The Doc says my brain waves closely match those of a crazed ferret.
At least now I have an excuse.

Dave Smith > wrote:

> A month to redo a kitchen? Mine was a matter of days. The cupboards had
> been ordered ahead of time and I was given an installation date. I had to
> rip out the old cupboards and counters. That took a few hours. When I got
> home from work the next day the now cupboards and counter were in place.

We're taking everything down to the bare walls, so the rebuild
is also going to involve painting and plastering. We also have
a drop ceiling (essentially a huge light soffit) that's coming
out; that comprises a bit more than half of the ceiling area
that will have to be rebuilt.

We also have to run gas in from the attic for the new range,
move a bunch of electrical outlets around, etc.

Personally, I think the contractor is being a little pessimistic
on the time estimates. But maybe that's realistic.

--
Mark Shaw moc TOD liamg TA wahsnm
================================================== ======================
"All of my mistakes are giving me ideas." - Natalie Lileks

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:51:08 +0000 (UTC), Mark Shaw
> wrote:

>> Disposable plastic or paper plates and plastic utensils are easiest. If
>> you must wash up, a utility room sink or the bathroom are about the only
>> options I can think of.
>
>I was thinking of a washtub and a garden hose out in the alley,
>actually. And after dark.

Be careful of where you dump it. You don't want to attract insects
and vermin or leave residues. Frankly, I think the bathtub would be a
better bet. Put the washtub on a stool or small table.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Simply grilled meats and veggies is probably the easiest in terms of
cleanup. Straight from the store package to the grill. No dishes except
the serving plates and the spatula or tongs.

Also, kebabs on wooden skewers are easy. You'll use a chopping board
and knife, but the skewers are cheap and you toss them when finished.
You may even be able to find pork "city chicken" that is already cut
up. Shrimp and scallops can go right on without cutting, so you can
avoid the meat/veggie combo on the cutting board. Use grape or cherry
tomatoes, mushrooms, and you can avoid chopping anything except the
onions and peppers. You can cut those on a paper plate with a single
paring knife.

Grilled quesadillas are good. Plop a tortilla on the grill, fill one
side with cheese, peppers, onions, whatever, avoid the edges (or cheese
will leak into the grill). Fold unfilled side of tortilla over. Flip
when is starts to brown. If you have asbestos hands, plates aren't even
required for this one. Use store bought salsa and/or sour cream to go
with it. If you want meat inside, grill it first, then make the
quesadilla. Note from experience, bacon is a bite to grill. It flares
up worse the a greasy burger.

Baked potatoes can be done on the grill, but they still take a long
time. Corn is great on the drill. Soak it, cook it till the husk browns
and maybe even gets a bit black, then peel it and eat. Asparagus is
good grilled.

Cast Iron pots and pans can be put on a grill if the grill is large
enough for them.

If you really must do a chili or pasta dish, put everything in one pot.
Add the pasta directly to the sauce when ready. You can always add more
liquid to the sauce if needed, but the pasta will absorb the sauce
better this way, and it is great if you like thick sauces.

Many things can also be done in foil packets. The key is to use heavy
duty foil. You may also need to ventilate the packets a bit if you seal
them too well. I've done many kinds of potatoes and veggies like this.
It is easy to burn these things because you can't see them, so cook
slowly. A potato gratin type thing can be done if you are careful.

Dean G.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:05:23 +0000 (UTC), Mark Shaw
> wrote:

>A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
>on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
>I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
>the entire month of July, and probably well into August.
>
>What do others who've gone through this kind of thing have to
>offer in the way of survival tips?
>
>I have a good gas grill and a propane cooker, so any prepar-
>ation not requiring an oven is probably not an issue. I'm
>thinking more in terms of storage and cleanup.
>
>Thanks!

Before they ripped out our kitchen for renovations, we cooked a lot of
'freezer meals' (casseroles, lasagne, pizza) and froze them in
individual portions. Then the freezer was moved out into the living
room, and the microwave placed next to it for the duration. We washed
the dishes in the laundry or bathroom, whichever one was usable at the
time (we had a complete renovation, and for some time we didn't have
anything at all except a toilet!) We also ate a lot of takeout food
and sandwiches... usually a sandwich for breakfast because it was easy
to fix before the workmen started at 7.30 or 8am, then we went to the
mall at lunchtime to use the restrooms and we ate there, and then we
came home in the afternoon when the workmen packed it in and had
freezer food or takeout for dinner.

--
~Karen aka Kajikit
Crafts, cats, and chocolate - the three essentials of life
http://www.kajikitscorner.com

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:41:18 -0400, Karen AKA Kajikit
> wrote:

>On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:05:23 +0000 (UTC), Mark Shaw
> wrote:
>
>>A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
>>on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
>>I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
>>the entire month of July, and probably well into August.
>>
>>What do others who've gone through this kind of thing have to
>>offer in the way of survival tips?
>>
>>I have a good gas grill and a propane cooker, so any prepar-
>>ation not requiring an oven is probably not an issue. I'm
>>thinking more in terms of storage and cleanup.
>>
>>Thanks!
>
>Before they ripped out our kitchen for renovations, we cooked a lot of
>'freezer meals' (casseroles, lasagne, pizza) and froze them in
>individual portions. Then the freezer was moved out into the living
>room, and the microwave placed next to it for the duration. We washed
>the dishes in the laundry or bathroom, whichever one was usable at the
>time (we had a complete renovation, and for some time we didn't have
>anything at all except a toilet!) We also ate a lot of takeout food
>and sandwiches... usually a sandwich for breakfast because it was easy
>to fix before the workmen started at 7.30 or 8am, then we went to the
>mall at lunchtime to use the restrooms and we ate there, and then we
>came home in the afternoon when the workmen packed it in and had
>freezer food or takeout for dinner.

Oh, the complete renovations took about ten weeks. We ended up with a
new kitchen, laundry, bathroom, toilet, and ensuite, and they retiled
the passage to match. There was so much mess and dust and noise
involved that we didn't have the energy to cook ANYTHING, even when we
had the space! (the cabinets were sitting in the livingroom for about
a week waiting to be installed, and then the bathroom fixtures took
their place)
At the end of it it was definitely worth it though... I miss that
kitchen! lol

--
~Karen aka Kajikit
Crafts, cats, and chocolate - the three essentials of life
http://www.kajikitscorner.com

Mark Shaw wrote:
> A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
> on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
> I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
> the entire month of July, and probably well into August.
>
> What do others who've gone through this kind of thing have to
> offer in the way of survival tips?
>
> I have a good gas grill and a propane cooker, so any prepar-
> ation not requiring an oven is probably not an issue. I'm
> thinking more in terms of storage and cleanup.
>
> Thanks!
>

assuming you *do* have a water source, this is what i do when we go
camping, and it works well.
get at least 3 large dishpans.
set up a "three compartment" setup- soapy hot water for soaking, clear
hot water for scrubbing off, and a third with either more hot water for
rinsing, or with a mild bleach solution if you are germ-phobic (and with
no hot tap water right at the ready, I would go the camping route, i.e.
a little bleach.)

for storage, plastic milk crates should work ok. I would invest in some
dry ice to keep perishables cold- or see if you can hold off on tossing
your old fridge and set it up in a sheltered area outside (or the garage).



--

saerah

"It's not a gimmick, it's an incentive."- asterbark, afca

aware of the manifold possibilities of the future

"I think there's a clause in the Shaman's and Jujumen's Local #57 Union
contract that they have to have reciprocity for each other's shop rules."
-König Prüß

Mark Shaw wrote:
> A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
> on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
> I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
> the entire month of July, and probably well into August.
>
> What do others who've gone through this kind of thing have to
> offer in the way of survival tips?
>


Find good, local take-out.

gloria p

Curly Sue wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:51:08 +0000 (UTC), Mark Shaw
> > wrote:
>
>
>>>Disposable plastic or paper plates and plastic utensils are easiest. If
>>>you must wash up, a utility room sink or the bathroom are about the only
>>>options I can think of.
>>
>>I was thinking of a washtub and a garden hose out in the alley,
>>actually. And after dark.
>
>
> Be careful of where you dump it. You don't want to attract insects
> and vermin or leave residues. Frankly, I think the bathtub would be a
> better bet. Put the washtub on a stool or small table.
>
> Sue(tm)
> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

if you have an area of your yard that you can dig up freely, you can dig
a "grey water" pit, and dump waste in there.

--

saerah

"It's not a gimmick, it's an incentive."- asterbark, afca

aware of the manifold possibilities of the future

"I think there's a clause in the Shaman's and Jujumen's Local #57 Union
contract that they have to have reciprocity for each other's shop rules."
-König Prüß

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:05:23 +0000 (UTC), Mark Shaw
> wrote:

>A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
>on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
>I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
>the entire month of July, and probably well into August.
>
>What do others who've gone through this kind of thing have to
>offer in the way of survival tips?
>
>I have a good gas grill and a propane cooker, so any prepar-
>ation not requiring an oven is probably not an issue. I'm
>thinking more in terms of storage and cleanup.

Went through it last year, so here is my advice:
- Buy plastic dinnerware. The only things we had to wash were salad
bowls, knives and big spoons, and that helped a lot.
- Can you keep your old fridge for a while? If possible, do, set it up
in whatever room you'll be eating in. What we did was to keep the old
buffet, put it in the living room, store all the plastic dinnerware
and other necessary stuff in there, store our microwave on it, and set
our old fridge beside it.
- Don't buy bottled salad dressing. They all taste foul IMO. A simple
dressing of balsamic vinegar, olive oil, salt and pepper, all of that
drizzled on the salad in the bowl, is just as easy and much nicer.
- Since you have a grill, use it. Grilled meat of course, but also
grilled pizza, grilled vegetables (cut up vegetables in chunks, lay on
aluminum foil, drizzle with oil, lemon juice, spices, whatever you
like, close foil, grill), grilled shrimp...
- Buy prewashed green salads.
- Tell everybody around you that you're kitchenless. That way you'll
get lots of invitations :-) (not really kidding, it was fun!)
- Go to the restaurant occasionally. Nice to have some hot ungrilled
food once in a while :-)
- Whenever you get really tired of camping in your old home, envision
your new kitchen!

Nathalie in Switzerland

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:09:57 +0000 (UTC), Mark Shaw
> wrote:

>We're taking everything down to the bare walls, so the rebuild
>is also going to involve painting and plastering. We also have
>a drop ceiling (essentially a huge light soffit) that's coming
>out; that comprises a bit more than half of the ceiling area
>that will have to be rebuilt.
>
>We also have to run gas in from the attic for the new range,
>move a bunch of electrical outlets around, etc.
>
>Personally, I think the contractor is being a little pessimistic
>on the time estimates. But maybe that's realistic.

We redid our kitchen like you, completely (down to new electricity in
the walls), and it took exactly 4 weeks (everything was made to
measure).

Nathalie in Switzerland

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:05:23 +0000 (UTC), Mark Shaw
> wrote:

>A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
>on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
>I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
>the entire month of July, and probably well into August.

Count on it taking longer. I did something similar and it went over 8
weeks...and I didn't allow demolition to begin until the new cabinets
were ready to install and all the new appliances were at the store,
ready for delivery and installation. Everyone I know who did a remodel
had it take longer than planned.
>
>What do others who've gone through this kind of thing have to
>offer in the way of survival tips?

Disposable plates, cups, napkins and "silverware". Keep out a few real
plates, serving platter, some real silverware, some knives, your basic
seasonings, dish towels, a few bowls, cutting board, etc. Make
yourself a mini-kitchen in another room.

I moved my dining room table into the family room and used an
appliance cart to hold plastic storage bins for the things I've
listed. The table served as a prep/serving area and a storage area.

If you have a dining room that wont be in the main traffic path, use
that for your mini kitchen.

Depending on where you store stuff, get some plastic drop cloths!
There will be dust and other stuff flying all over and you want to be
able to keep your mini-kitchen protected. I also put my microwave on
the cart and had that available too.

>I have a good gas grill and a propane cooker, so any prepar-
>ation not requiring an oven is probably not an issue. I'm
>thinking more in terms of storage and cleanup.

Look at the things you now use to prepare for grilling, cooking and
serving. You're going to need to keep those items out somewhere else.
The trick is to find a place that can be covered during the day and
accessible in the evening.

Having your fridge available is a huge help. Lunches here were
sandwiches, pre cut fruit from the local market and some store bought
sides.

Also, you'll need all the things you use to clean up. Dish soap,
kitchen towels, scouring pad, etc. I used dish towels on the bathroom
vanity to stack things as I washed them, then other towels to dry
them. I kept all that in the bathroom.

Speaking of bathrooms, remember the workmen will be using your
bathroom while they are there. You're going to have a lot more
clean-up and go through a lot of towels.

I had intended to do a lot of grilling during my re-do, but it ended
up being such a pain, we did take-out most of the time. Get some
menu's from your favorite local places and keep them handy.

Another thing to remember..there will be all kinds of folks coming to
your home to do work. If you can't be there every minute, you need to
protect your valuables, including check books and extra checks.

Debra

Think of it this way : If the contractor says three days, and it takes
a week, he may have to deal with an angry customer, whose home is his
work site, for four days. If he says it'll take a two weeks, and he is
done in one, then usually the customer is happy instead of angry. It
took the same amount of time, but one customer was very happy, and the
other was very angry. I'd always overestimate a bit. Something
unexpected always happens, and you should have at least a day of fudge
factor added in, more for big jobs.

Dean G.

Or offer to go to a friend's house and cook them dinner. You get a
kitchen to use, and they get a good meal.

Dean G.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:58:27 GMT, kilikini wrote:
>
> A bathtub works great too! (Not everyone has a dishwasher or a large
> kitchen sink..........)
>
But it gets old fast. I'd stick to the bbq, disposable utensils and
eat out a lot.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:09:57 +0000 (UTC), Mark Shaw wrote:

> Personally, I think the contractor is being a little pessimistic
> on the time estimates. But maybe that's realistic.

It's very realistic and you'll be in for a happy surprise if he
finishes early. Get back to us with the actual time (full
crew/partial crew) when it's over. We're all curious.

"Mark Shaw" > wrote in message
...
> A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
> on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
> I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
> the entire month of July, and probably well into August.
>
> What do others who've gone through this kind of thing have to
> offer in the way of survival tips?

Oh, man - I do NOT envy you that month. We did something
very similar a few years back, and it was sheer hell for a family
that's used to home-cooked meals.

When I did the final demolition on the kitchen (which I have
to admit was really satisfying, especially when it involved taking
a wrecking bar to these hideous old teeny-ceramic-tiles counter
tops with the disgusting grout, but then I was left standing in
the middle of a room that was basically naked wallboard with
a couple of copper pipes sticking out of it, thinking "what have
I DONE??!?")...anyway...wait, where was I? Oh, yeah - well,
we moved the old fridge into an adjacent room for a while,
along with the old microwave (which sat on top). So we could
at least have meals which didn't require much beyond those two
appliances. The grill got a good workout that month, and we
became a lot more familiar with (and for a long time, lost all
remaining taste for) the local fast-food joints. (Hitting a
"decent" restaurant still happened every so often, but since we
were doing a lot of our own work on the remodeling - well,
when you're covered with paint or drywall dust, and you're
hungry from the day's work, you wanna go some place where
they will basically just hand you food no matter what you
look like.)

I was never so happy as when the new cabinets and counter
tops went in, and I finally had some decent storage and
work space again.

I don't think there's going to be much in the way of survival
tips for this other than grin and bear it, and make do as best
you can; to a great degree, you have to think of this (and
prepare for it) as an extended camping trip. You're going to
be cooking with limited equipment, and using ingredients
stored in cardboard boxes, and even if you're not doing much
of the remodeling yourself my guess is that you'll often be
too tired or hurried to be doing anything fancy.

Bob M.

"Nathalie Chiva" > wrote in
message ...
> >Personally, I think the contractor is being a little pessimistic
> >on the time estimates. But maybe that's realistic.
>
> We redid our kitchen like you, completely (down to new electricity in
> the walls), and it took exactly 4 weeks (everything was made to
> measure).

Yes, this DOES sound very reasonable; the remodel experience
I mentioned in the last post was very much like the one Mark is
talking about, right down to rebuilding much of the ceiling after
removing a truly horrible oversized fluorescent light box the
previous owner had installed. A complete tear-down right to the
bare walls, then the rebuild of the ceiling & floor, new cabinets,
countertops and appliances (a couple of which required some mods
to the wiring and/or plumbing) - yes, I can see 4 weeks as being
pretty safe to plan around. It definitely won't be one, but you
might get lucky and have it all in in three.

Bob M.

sf wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:58:27 GMT, kilikini wrote:
>>
>> A bathtub works great too! (Not everyone has a dishwasher or a
>> large kitchen sink..........)
>>
> But it gets old fast.

Especially when you want to take a bath LOL I am envisioning something like
installing a garbage disposal in the bathtub and then some maniac shoving a
person down the drain... oh dear.

Jill (who does wash things in the bathroom SINK)

sf wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:09:57 +0000 (UTC), Mark Shaw wrote:
>
>> Personally, I think the contractor is being a little pessimistic
>> on the time estimates. But maybe that's realistic.
>
> It's very realistic and you'll be in for a happy surprise if he
> finishes early. Get back to us with the actual time (full
> crew/partial crew) when it's over. We're all curious.

As anyone with a whit of sense knows, if your boss (in this case the client)
asks, "When will you have this done?" you grossly overstate how much time
you'll need while assuring them all the while it's your top priority. When
you deliver it early you get kudos (and I'm not talking about the candy
bar!). If you don't... uh. Well.

Jill

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:18:44 -0500, jmcquown wrote:

> sf wrote:
> > On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:09:57 +0000 (UTC), Mark Shaw wrote:
> >
> >> Personally, I think the contractor is being a little pessimistic
> >> on the time estimates. But maybe that's realistic.
> >
> > It's very realistic and you'll be in for a happy surprise if he
> > finishes early. Get back to us with the actual time (full
> > crew/partial crew) when it's over. We're all curious.
>
> As anyone with a whit of sense knows, if your boss (in this case the client)
> asks, "When will you have this done?" you grossly overstate how much time
> you'll need while assuring them all the while it's your top priority. When
> you deliver it early you get kudos (and I'm not talking about the candy
> bar!). If you don't... uh. Well.
>
Clients also tend to underestimate. For instance, we're turning part
of our basement into a family room/wetbar... we're putting in a total
of 9 cabinets in the bar area and we had a catalog (no prices in it)
to look at and formulate initial plans.

We had one set of numbers in mind and stated it to the designer before
our session. The designer just looked back and said "double it". He
was right! When we had the finished design in hand, the cost had
essentially doubled. We had only considered the cost of the cabinets,
not the spacers, not the end pieces or the extra cabinet for a blind
corner and the doors to nowhere that make everything look like we
planned it, etc. I also bought pre-finished crown molding for the
tops of the cabinets and another set of prefinished molding for
recessing lights on the bottom. It all adds up - but my point is we
grossly underestimated the cost.

sf wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:18:44 -0500, jmcquown wrote:
>
>> sf wrote:
>> > On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:09:57 +0000 (UTC), Mark Shaw wrote:
>> >
>> >> Personally, I think the contractor is being a little pessimistic
>> >> on the time estimates. But maybe that's realistic.
>> >
>> > It's very realistic and you'll be in for a happy surprise if he
>> > finishes early. Get back to us with the actual time (full
>> > crew/partial crew) when it's over. We're all curious.
>>
>> As anyone with a whit of sense knows, if your boss (in this case
>> the client) asks, "When will you have this done?" you grossly
>> overstate how much time you'll need while assuring them all the
>> while it's your top priority. When you deliver it early you get
>> kudos (and I'm not talking about the candy bar!). If you don't...
>> uh. Well.
>>
> Clients also tend to underestimate.

Well of course they do! They want the job done fast, not in 6 weeks! And
the contractor should also be able to justify any extra costs from what the
client figured the cost to be on the front end.

This is why the onus is on the contractor to give a time estimate which will
alllow themselves a buffer in case something goes wrong. What could go
wrong? Oh, I dunno. Subcontractors not showing up? Drenching rain? An
earthquake along the New Madrid? <G>

For instance, we're turning part
> of our basement into a family room/wetbar... we're putting in a total
> of 9 cabinets in the bar area and we had a catalog (no prices in it)
> to look at and formulate initial plans.
>
> We had one set of numbers in mind and stated it to the designer before
> our session. The designer just looked back and said "double it". He
> was right! When we had the finished design in hand, the cost had
> essentially doubled. We had only considered the cost of the cabinets,
> not the spacers, not the end pieces or the extra cabinet for a blind
> corner and the doors to nowhere that make everything look like we
> planned it, etc. I also bought pre-finished crown molding for the
> tops of the cabinets and another set of prefinished molding for
> recessing lights on the bottom. It all adds up - but my point is we
> grossly underestimated the cost.

Excellent points!

Jill

"kilikini" wrote
> "Wayne Boatwright" wrote
>> On Thu 30 Jun 2005 07:05:23a, Mark Shaw wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>
>> > A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
>> > on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
>> > I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
>> > the entire month of July, and probably well into August.
>> >
>> > I have a good gas grill and a propane cooker, so any prepar-
>> > ation not requiring an oven is probably not an issue. I'm
>> > thinking more in terms of storage and cleanup.
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>>
>> Worst case for cold food storage, a cooler and ice. Better to buy a
>> small
>> refrigerator that you could use as an extra in the pantry or garage.
>>
>> Disposable plastic or paper plates and plastic utensils are easiest. If
>> you must wash up, a utility room sink or the bathroom are about the only
>> options I can think of.
>>
>> --
>> Wayne Boatwright *¿*
>
>
> A bathtub works great too! (Not everyone has a dishwasher or a large
> kitchen sink..........)
>
> kili
>
>

Particularly if the tub is a Jacuzzi!!! ;-)

Pam

"Mark Shaw" > wrote in message
...
>A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
> on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
> I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
> the entire month of July, and probably well into August.
>
> What do others who've gone through this kind of thing have to
> offer in the way of survival tips?
>
> I have a good gas grill and a propane cooker, so any prepar-
> ation not requiring an oven is probably not an issue. I'm
> thinking more in terms of storage and cleanup.
>
> Thanks!

BTW you can bake potatoes on the upper shelf of most grills, along with grilling
corn on the cob.

Get lots of metal skewers a little minute rice and several skewers make a great
meal. If you cut chicken the use a solution of bleach and water to clean the
cutting board.

Get or keep out a griddle and a wok These are very handy. I would also get one
of the vegetable grill plates, the ones with the holes. I will make grilling
veggies easy. Keep some Pam handy for that.

http://www.welcomehome.org/rainbow/t...n/kitchen.html

THE BLEACH (CHLORINE) STORY
The proportions for bleach rinses (external use only-do not drink) are based on
using 5.25% household bleach. Not all brands of these bleaches are equal. Most
of the brand names bleaches are 5.25%
To make a bleach water rinse to use for sterilizing hands, dishes, pots, pans
and utensils, use 1 Tablespoon 5.25% bleach per 1 Gallon of water. See Part II
for a complete discussion.
Very few bleach bottle caps equal a tablespoon measure. Tip: Fasten a measuring
spoon to the bleach bottle with a piece of string. Heat inactivates bleach and
in very cold water it takes longer to work. The impact of bleach on the
environment isn't near the impact of sick people.

Make sure the paper/foam/plastic plates you are going to use are microwave
proof. Many of the foam and plastic oned will melt when the food gets hot.

Dimitri

"pjjehg" > wrote in message
...
>
> "kilikini" wrote
> > "Wayne Boatwright" wrote
> >> On Thu 30 Jun 2005 07:05:23a, Mark Shaw wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> >>
> >> > A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
> >> > on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
> >> > I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
> >> > the entire month of July, and probably well into August.
> >> >
> >> > I have a good gas grill and a propane cooker, so any prepar-
> >> > ation not requiring an oven is probably not an issue. I'm
> >> > thinking more in terms of storage and cleanup.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks!
> >> >
> >>
> >> Worst case for cold food storage, a cooler and ice. Better to buy a
> >> small
> >> refrigerator that you could use as an extra in the pantry or garage.
> >>
> >> Disposable plastic or paper plates and plastic utensils are easiest.
If
> >> you must wash up, a utility room sink or the bathroom are about the
only
> >> options I can think of.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Wayne Boatwright *¿*
> >
> >
> > A bathtub works great too! (Not everyone has a dishwasher or a large
> > kitchen sink..........)
> >
> > kili
> >
> >
>
> Particularly if the tub is a Jacuzzi!!! ;-)
>
> Pam
>
>


Oooooooooh, think of the suds action!

kili

On Thu 30 Jun 2005 02:12:10p, kilikini wrote in rec.food.cooking:

>
> "pjjehg" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "kilikini" wrote
>> > "Wayne Boatwright" wrote
>> >> On Thu 30 Jun 2005 07:05:23a, Mark Shaw wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>> >>
>> >> > A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
>> >> > on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
>> >> > I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
>> >> > the entire month of July, and probably well into August.
>> >> >
>> >> > I have a good gas grill and a propane cooker, so any prepar-
>> >> > ation not requiring an oven is probably not an issue. I'm
>> >> > thinking more in terms of storage and cleanup.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks!
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Worst case for cold food storage, a cooler and ice. Better to buy a
>> >> small refrigerator that you could use as an extra in the pantry or
>> >> garage.
>> >>
>> >> Disposable plastic or paper plates and plastic utensils are easiest.
>> >> If you must wash up, a utility room sink or the bathroom are about
>> >> the only options I can think of.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Wayne Boatwright *¿*
>> >
>> >
>> > A bathtub works great too! (Not everyone has a dishwasher or a large
>> > kitchen sink..........)
>> >
>> > kili
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Particularly if the tub is a Jacuzzi!!! ;-)
>>
>> Pam
>>
>>
>
>
> Oooooooooh, think of the suds action!
>
> kili

LOL! Reminds me when my parents bought a house in 1956 that had a
Kitchenaid dishwasher. They had never owned one and there were no
operating instructions. Mom put a capful of Joy in the dishwasher and we
came back to a kitchen full of suds.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974


---
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Virus Database (VPS): 0526-3, 06/30/2005
Tested on: 6/30/2005 2:17:55 PM
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http://www.avast.com

"kilikini" > wrote in message
om...


> A bathtub works great too! (Not everyone has a dishwasher or a large
> kitchen sink..........)
>
> kili

Wal mart and other places have portable dishwashers ( 4 place settings) for 150
bucks and they plug in and hook up to any "kitchen sink" I would be very, very,
tempted to look onto one of those. Especially if there is a laundry sink in the
garage.

Dimitri (who really enjoys his creature comforts)

BWY you'd probably save that amount on hand lotion you wouldn't have to use
after every wash............

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:12:10 GMT, kilikini wrote:

>
> Oooooooooh, think of the suds action!

Think of the grease and dishwater in the pipes.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:33:54 GMT, Dimitri wrote:
>
> Wal mart and other places have portable dishwashers ( 4 place settings) for 150
> bucks and they plug in and hook up to any "kitchen sink" I would be very, very,
> tempted to look onto one of those. Especially if there is a laundry sink in the
> garage.
>
> Dimitri (who really enjoys his creature comforts)
>
Great idea! You'd also have an extra dishwasher for the times that
you need one (party time).

"Mark Shaw" wrote ...
>A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
> on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
> I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
> the entire month of July, and probably well into August.
>
> What do others who've gone through this kind of thing have to
> offer in the way of survival tips?
>
> I have a good gas grill and a propane cooker, so any prepar-
> ation not requiring an oven is probably not an issue. I'm
> thinking more in terms of storage and cleanup.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Mark Shaw
>
I don't do much slow cooker cooking, but this situation seems like a perfect
reason to make a lot of use of that puppy.

Pam

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:04:52 +0200, Nathalie Chiva
> wrote:
>
>We redid our kitchen like you, completely (down to new electricity in
>the walls), and it took exactly 4 weeks (everything was made to
>measure).
>
I did a complete tear-out too. Cabinets were custom made...needed new
electric for new lighting, electric ovens, etc...minimal
plumbing..tile floors..granite counters..tile backsplash...painting.
Contractor said 6 weeks..it took 8.

First tile floor had to be ripped out because it looked awful. Got a
different guy and had to wait for him to be available. The granite guy
took a little longer than planned to get all the counters in...one
little thing after another.

Seems like stuff just happens and its a day here and a day or two
there....and pretty soon, it's weeks.

Debra

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu 30 Jun 2005 02:12:10p, kilikini wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
> >
> > "pjjehg" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "kilikini" wrote
> >> > "Wayne Boatwright" wrote
> >> >> On Thu 30 Jun 2005 07:05:23a, Mark Shaw wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> >> >>
> >> >> > A crew is going to come and demolish my early-70s era kitchen
> >> >> > on the 5th, preparatory to rebuilding it from floor to ceiling.
> >> >> > I anticipate being completely without kitchen facilities for
> >> >> > the entire month of July, and probably well into August.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I have a good gas grill and a propane cooker, so any prepar-
> >> >> > ation not requiring an oven is probably not an issue. I'm
> >> >> > thinking more in terms of storage and cleanup.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks!
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Worst case for cold food storage, a cooler and ice. Better to buy a
> >> >> small refrigerator that you could use as an extra in the pantry or
> >> >> garage.
> >> >>
> >> >> Disposable plastic or paper plates and plastic utensils are easiest.
> >> >> If you must wash up, a utility room sink or the bathroom are about
> >> >> the only options I can think of.
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Wayne Boatwright *¿*
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > A bathtub works great too! (Not everyone has a dishwasher or a large
> >> > kitchen sink..........)
> >> >
> >> > kili
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Particularly if the tub is a Jacuzzi!!! ;-)
> >>
> >> Pam
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Oooooooooh, think of the suds action!
> >
> > kili
>
> LOL! Reminds me when my parents bought a house in 1956 that had a
> Kitchenaid dishwasher. They had never owned one and there were no
> operating instructions. Mom put a capful of Joy in the dishwasher and we
> came back to a kitchen full of suds.
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright *¿*


Believe it or not, Wayne, I saw a girl at the laundromat do something
similiar with dishwasher liquid. The machine bubbled over. I so wanted to
quote the character of Red Foreman on 'That 70's Show' by saying "You
Dumbass!" <g>

kili

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:12:10 GMT, kilikini wrote:
>
> >
> > Oooooooooh, think of the suds action!
>
> Think of the grease and dishwater in the pipes.

No different than a kitchen sink!

kili