In article .com>,
Leila > wrote:
>"Scharffen Berger markets to the refined palate and seeks to be
>approached like a fine wine. Its best-selling products include
>bittersweet and extra-dark chocolates. The company has retail stores in
>Berkeley, San Francisco and New York. Its products also are available
>in high-end supermarkets."

This gives me more confidence in my theory: Scharffen Berger is a
sham. Here they are, announcing that they are being acquired by the
king of mass market, low quality chocolate, and simultaneously
claiming the high end of the market.

I've tasted their packaged goods many times, and I find them lacking.
The chocolate has a weird sour (not bitter) taste that is not
pleasant.

It is also quite expensive.
--
David Arnstein

David Arnstein wrote:

> This gives me more confidence in my theory: Scharffen Berger is a
> sham. Here they are, announcing that they are being acquired by the
> king of mass market, low quality chocolate, and simultaneously
> claiming the high end of the market.
>
> I've tasted their packaged goods many times, and I find them lacking.
> The chocolate has a weird sour (not bitter) taste that is not
> pleasant.
>
> It is also quite expensive.

Yep. It doesn't hold a candle to Michel Cluizel or Valrhona. It's
decidedly one-dimensional. It's the typical American thing -- some
rich guys start a company in an area that interests them, learn as
much as they can, and hang out a shingle. European chocolatiers
have decades of experience, access to growers, etc. There's
just no substitute for the kind of knowledge in depth that comes
from growing up in what has been a hereditary craft.

Of course, that's what's great about America -- you don't have to
apprentice for seven years to become a sushi chef. OTOH that's
what's not so great about America -- you eat sushi made by guys who
didn't study for seven years to become a sushi chef.

In article >,
Michael Sierchio > wrote:

> access to growers, etc.

Those growers in South America, you mean?

> There's just no substitute for the kind of knowledge in depth that
> comes from growing up in what has been a hereditary craft.

True, but it seems to me that there is less and less of that in
Europe as well. People no longer want to do what the family always has
done, they are more individualistic.

In any case, I still prefer Ghiradelli chocolate. Call me a plebe if
you will.

Regards,
Ranee

Remove do not & spam to e-mail me.

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
http://talesfromthekitchen.blogspot.com/

On 2005-07-26, Michael Sierchio > wrote:

> rich guys start a company in an area that interests them, learn as
> much as they can, and hang out a shingle. European chocolatiers
> have decades of experience, access to growers, etc. There's
> just no substitute for the kind of knowledge in depth that comes
> from growing up in what has been a hereditary craft.

> Of course, that's what's great about America -- you don't have to
> apprentice for seven years.....

Building up a specialty business and then relentlessly promoting it to
attract the attention of the big boys and then selling it so as to be
able to afford luxury homes, jets, and planes is what Americans
apprentice at. This isn't ol' John's first time.

nb

Michael Sierchio wrote:

> It's the typical American thing -- some
> rich guys start a company in an area that interests them, learn as
> much as they can, and hang out a shingle. European chocolatiers
> have decades of experience, access to growers, etc. There's
> just no substitute for the kind of knowledge in depth that comes
> from growing up in what has been a hereditary craft.

That's what I figured -- I was very prejudiced against SB
before trying it. However, their ~70% bittersweet is currently
my favorite chocolate. My others are certain chocolates from
Valrhona and Chocovic.

What some people don't like about SB is that they
roast their beans less than other makers. This preserves
certain flavors that get burnt out by most other chocolate
makers. Many people don't seem to like these flavors,
but I enjoy them very much. I find burnt chocolates
uninteresting and unsatisfying.

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 19:58:04 GMT, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>Michael Sierchio wrote:
>
>> It's the typical American thing -- some
>> rich guys start a company in an area that interests them, learn as
>> much as they can, and hang out a shingle. European chocolatiers
>> have decades of experience, access to growers, etc. There's
>> just no substitute for the kind of knowledge in depth that comes
>> from growing up in what has been a hereditary craft.


Hershey has been around since 1893. Have access to growers, have
decades of experience. have there own milk processing plant for the
production of milk chocolate. They employ 13,700 people, export to 90
countries and have $4 billion in sales a year. Not bad for something
that started with a penniless 30 year old.

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:12:09 GMT, day dreamer@dream .com@ wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 19:58:04 GMT, Mark Thorson >
>wrote:
>
>>Michael Sierchio wrote:
>>
>>> It's the typical American thing -- some
>>> rich guys start a company in an area that interests them, learn as
>>> much as they can, and hang out a shingle. European chocolatiers
>>> have decades of experience, access to growers, etc. There's
>>> just no substitute for the kind of knowledge in depth that comes
>>> from growing up in what has been a hereditary craft.
>
>
>Hershey has been around since 1893. Have access to growers, have
>decades of experience. have there own milk processing plant for the
>production of milk chocolate. They employ 13,700 people, export to 90
>countries and have $4 billion in sales a year. Not bad for something
>that started with a penniless 30 year old.
>

Hershey made it possible for the masses in the US to have chocolate at
all. Before that, it was affordable only for the rich. As a
company, its history is very admirable with regard to treatment of
workers, the surrounding community, and needy children.

I'm pleased and proud to support Hershey's by eating Reeses peanut
butter cups and Skor Toffee bars and Whatchamacallit and Mr. Goodbar
and kisses and Almond Joy. :>

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Curly Sue wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:12:09 GMT, day dreamer@dream .com@ wrote:

>>On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 19:58:04 GMT, Mark Thorson >
>>wrote:

>>>Michael Sierchio wrote:

>>>>It's the typical American thing -- some
>>>>rich guys start a company in an area that interests them, learn as
>>>>much as they can, and hang out a shingle. European chocolatiers
>>>>have decades of experience, access to growers, etc. There's
>>>>just no substitute for the kind of knowledge in depth that comes
>>>>from growing up in what has been a hereditary craft.
>>
>>Hershey has been around since 1893. Have access to growers, have
>>decades of experience. have there own milk processing plant for the
>>production of milk chocolate. They employ 13,700 people, export to 90
>>countries and have $4 billion in sales a year. Not bad for something
>>that started with a penniless 30 year old.
>>
> Hershey made it possible for the masses in the US to have chocolate at
> all. Before that, it was affordable only for the rich. As a
> company, its history is very admirable with regard to treatment of
> workers, the surrounding community, and needy children.
>
> I'm pleased and proud to support Hershey's by eating Reeses peanut
> butter cups and Skor Toffee bars and Whatchamacallit and Mr. Goodbar
> and kisses and Almond Joy. :>
>

> Sue(tm)
Hershey's chocolate tastes from boiled milk. I do not like milk
chocolate, but Hershey's is the worst of the popular brands. Their
Special, the dark chocolate would not be bad, if they made it a little
less sweet. Dark chocolate should have that bittersweet taste, but in
this case it does not.

As for Scharffen Berger, I cannot eat their chocolate at all. As
someone mentioned, it tastes sour, as if it were spoiled. There is
another American Chocolate maker, Guittard's and those chocolates are
incredibly good but, unfortunately they are difficult to find in New
York City.

Let's hope that the merger will produce a new, wonderfully good
chocolate bar.

On 2005-07-26, Margaret Suran > wrote:

> another American Chocolate maker......

Yeah! ...let's not forget Baker's, the oldest chocolate company in the
US and having the distinction of never buying chocolate from suppliers
who used slaves.

nb

Margaret Suran > wrote:
: As for Scharffen Berger, I cannot eat their chocolate at all. As
: someone mentioned, it tastes sour, as if it were spoiled. There is
: another American Chocolate maker, Guittard's and those chocolates are
: incredibly good but, unfortunately they are difficult to find in New
: York City.

: Let's hope that the merger will produce a new, wonderfully good
: chocolate bar.

I tried Guittard thanks to a shipment from Alex Rast and it
is very good, but I can't get it around here.

We use a *large* amount of Scharffenberger's 99%, and I don't
even bake with it. We use it for cocoa and 'chocolate soda';
I crumble it over fruit desserts [usually mixed with pecans
or almonds or walnuts or coconut]; late at night, i.e. early
in the morning, my husband eats it straight as a snack
--thelma

In article >,
Margaret Suran > wrote:

> There is another American Chocolate maker, Guittard's and those
> chocolates are incredibly good but, unfortunately they are difficult
> to find in New York City.

Oh! I forgot about them! I won two 10 pound bars of chocolate from
them a few years ago. They were soooo good!

Regards,
Ranee

Remove do not & spam to e-mail me.

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
http://talesfromthekitchen.blogspot.com/

day, dreamer@dream, .com@ wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 19:58:04 GMT, Mark Thorson >
> wrote:
>
> >Michael Sierchio wrote:
> >
> >> It's the typical American thing -- some
> >> rich guys start a company in an area that interests them, learn as
> >> much as they can, and hang out a shingle. European chocolatiers
> >> have decades of experience, access to growers, etc. There's
> >> just no substitute for the kind of knowledge in depth that comes
> >> from growing up in what has been a hereditary craft.
>
> Hershey has been around since 1893. Have access to growers, have
> decades of experience. have there own milk processing plant for the
> production of milk chocolate. They employ 13,700 people, export to 90
> countries and have $4 billion in sales a year. Not bad for something
> that started with a penniless 30 year old.

Several years ago Nestles bought my favorite Mexican drinking chocolate
"Abulita" so far there has been no noticable diminuation in the quality
of the product, i was fearing an adulturation of ingredients and
quantities of ingredients till it reached the blandness of "Ibara".
---
Joseph Littleshoes

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
> Michael Sierchio wrote:
>
>> It's the typical American thing -- some
>> rich guys start a company in an area that interests them, learn as
>> much as they can, and hang out a shingle. European chocolatiers
>> have decades of experience, access to growers, etc. There's
>> just no substitute for the kind of knowledge in depth that comes
>> from growing up in what has been a hereditary craft.
>
> That's what I figured -- I was very prejudiced against SB
> before trying it. However, their ~70% bittersweet is currently
> my favorite chocolate. My others are certain chocolates from
> Valrhona and Chocovic.
>
> What some people don't like about SB is that they
> roast their beans less than other makers. This preserves
> certain flavors that get burnt out by most other chocolate
> makers. Many people don't seem to like these flavors,
> but I enjoy them very much. I find burnt chocolates
> uninteresting and unsatisfying.
>

I don't know where I got the idea that SB tastes the way they do because of
the near-burnt or close-to-burnt flavor; haven't I read something on their
site about the fantastic way of roasting that they get the taste out of
their beans vs. other chocolatiers? It was my thinking that they roasted
more heartily than other companies do.
Anyway, you probably know from reading this posting that SB is NOT one of my
choices of chocolate. But then neither is Starbucks choice of roasting
their beans or various beans. However, I wouldn't mind having a little
stock in either company.
Dee Dee

On 2005-07-27, Dee Randall > wrote:

> the near-burnt or close-to-burnt flavor; haven't I read something on their
> site about the fantastic way of roasting that they get the taste out of
> their beans vs. other chocolatiers?

.......and how JS scraped around Europe looking for old mothballed
chocolate equipment so he could make his chocolate in the "real"
old-world traditional way. Now he's sucking big sugar daddy tit to
get at that real new-world production equipment to increase profits.
Obviously, good PR works.

nb

Dee Randall wrote:
>
> I don't know where I got the idea that SB tastes the way they do because of
> the near-burnt or close-to-burnt flavor; haven't I read something on their
> site about the fantastic way of roasting that they get the taste out of
> their beans vs. other chocolatiers? It was my thinking that they roasted
> more heartily than other companies do.
> Anyway, you probably know from reading this posting that SB is NOT one of my
> choices of chocolate. But then neither is Starbucks choice of roasting
> their beans or various beans. However, I wouldn't mind having a little
> stock in either company.
> Dee Dee
>
SB is not my current favorite, but I do like it. Some of my
current favorites are Dagoba's New Moon (74%), and Maglio's
Africa (75% minimum). I also like TJ's ?Ocumare?.

For flavored chocolate/chocolate with inclusions, I like
Valrhona's Manjari (dark chocolate with candied orange peel),
although it is not nearly as good as it was before they
changed the label and the formula; Dagoba's Roseberry (a
recent discovery, which contains raspberries and rosehips);
and even TJ's Chocolate-Mint UFOs (which contain Girardelli's
sweet chocolate).

Boy, I am low on chocolate. The last time I typed up my list,
it was much more extensive.
--
Jean B.

Just going to add a shout out to Callebaut for my fave chocolate... dark is
so goooood.

Bob

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
> Michael Sierchio wrote:
>
>> It's the typical American thing -- some
>> rich guys start a company in an area that interests them, learn as
>> much as they can, and hang out a shingle. European chocolatiers
>> have decades of experience, access to growers, etc. There's
>> just no substitute for the kind of knowledge in depth that comes
>> from growing up in what has been a hereditary craft.
>
> That's what I figured -- I was very prejudiced against SB
> before trying it. However, their ~70% bittersweet is currently
> my favorite chocolate. My others are certain chocolates from
> Valrhona and Chocovic.
>
> What some people don't like about SB is that they
> roast their beans less than other makers. This preserves
> certain flavors that get burnt out by most other chocolate
> makers. Many people don't seem to like these flavors,
> but I enjoy them very much. I find burnt chocolates
> uninteresting and unsatisfying.
>
>
>

Mark Thorson wrote:

> Michael Sierchio wrote:
>
>
>>It's the typical American thing -- some
>>rich guys start a company in an area that interests them, learn as
>>much as they can, and hang out a shingle. European chocolatiers
>>have decades of experience, access to growers, etc. There's
>>just no substitute for the kind of knowledge in depth that comes
>>from growing up in what has been a hereditary craft.
>
>
> That's what I figured -- I was very prejudiced against SB
> before trying it. However, their ~70% bittersweet is currently
> my favorite chocolate. My others are certain chocolates from
> Valrhona and Chocovic.
>
> What some people don't like about SB is that they
> roast their beans less than other makers. This preserves
> certain flavors that get burnt out by most other chocolate
> makers. Many people don't seem to like these flavors,
> but I enjoy them very much. I find burnt chocolates
> uninteresting and unsatisfying.

Crud. Now I have to go down and get a hunk of chocolate--and
it is only 11:33 AM here.

--
Jean B.

In article >,
Michael Sierchio > wrote:
>Yep. It doesn't hold a candle to Michel Cluizel or Valrhona.

I find Valrhona overpriced (and thus on par with SB). I prefer
Chocovic, although nothing beats TJ's Pound Plus 70% chocolate for
value.

rone
--
"If the movie was an episode of 'Battlestar Galactica' with a guest appearance
by the Smurfs and everyone spoke Dutch, the graphic novel is 'Citizen Kane'
with added sex scenes and music by your favourite ten bands and everyone in
the world you ever hated dies at the end." -- Warren Ellis, on 'From Hell'

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005, rone wrote:

> In article >,
> Michael Sierchio > wrote:
> >Yep. It doesn't hold a candle to Michel Cluizel or Valrhona.
>
> I find Valrhona overpriced (and thus on par with SB). I prefer
> Chocovic, although nothing beats TJ's Pound Plus 70% chocolate for
> value.

TJs has often had Valrhona at reasonable prices. There's no obvious
indication that it's any different from what's sold for a lot more
elsewhere, although I've not recently enough bought the latter for
direct comparison.
--

Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA

"rone" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Michael Sierchio > wrote:
>>Yep. It doesn't hold a candle to Michel Cluizel or Valrhona.
>
> I find Valrhona overpriced (and thus on par with SB). I prefer
> Chocovic, although nothing beats TJ's Pound Plus 70% chocolate for
> value.
>
> rone
> --
> "If the movie was an episode of 'Battlestar Galactica' with a guest
> appearance
> by the Smurfs and everyone spoke Dutch, the graphic novel is 'Citizen
> Kane'
> with added sex scenes and music by your favourite ten bands and everyone
> in
> the world you ever hated dies at the end." -- Warren Ellis, on 'From Hell'

TJ's - I swore I'd never go there again because it looks and feels like a
package store - you know, packages of this, packages of that and dinky
isles. Their produce section is small compared to the Whole Foods I've been
to; even though TJ's has a nice cheese selection. On my way to CT last
week, the traffic forced me to get off at Darien, CT, where I found
Girrhadeli (sp?) 70% chocolate for $3.99 a lb. and 100% pure organic
cranberry juice (TJ's brand) for $3.99 vs. Knudsen's brand at anywhere from
$5.99 to 7.50 for the same amount. TJ's cranberry juice is far superior.
Another thing I liked -- is that the people who worked there were quite
helpful and pleasant even though the store was busy on a Friday night. I
went back on the way home and got their Giradelhi (sp?) white chocolate at
$4.39 lb., I believe it was.
My last chocolate purchase at Whole Foods was Callabaut dark unsweetened
$6.99#; El Rey Apamate Choc 73.5% at $7.99#; and Mitica
Artisan -Spanish-Dark Chocolate at $12.99# (I'd never heard of Mitica - just
thought I'd try it.)
I can't comment on any of these chocolates. I only buy -- tee hee. (My
f-i-l has had two different types of cancer in the 18 months and has
recovered from both lymphoma and colon cancer. Last week they said that
they would be doing a biopsy for lung cancer, but today they said that it
was probably a false test -- perhaps I will be able to use my hoard of
chocolates before long.
Hot here today, when I came home from town, the thermometer said 100F. I
dont' think it was in the sun.
Dee

In article >, "rone" >
wrote:

> In article >,
> Michael Sierchio > wrote:
> >Yep. It doesn't hold a candle to Michel Cluizel or Valrhona.
>
> I find Valrhona overpriced (and thus on par with SB). I prefer
> Chocovic, although nothing beats TJ's Pound Plus 70% chocolate for
> value.

I should try theirs. I like Ghiradelli quite well, and _really_ like
Belgian dark chocolate.

Regards,
Ranee

Remove do not & spam to e-mail me.

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
http://talesfromthekitchen.blogspot.com/

On 26 Jul 2005 13:00:19 -0700, rone wrote:

> although nothing beats TJ's Pound Plus 70% chocolate for
> value.

shhhhh.... don't tell secrets.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On 26 Jul 2005 13:00:19 -0700, rone wrote:
>
>> although nothing beats TJ's Pound Plus 70% chocolate for
>> value.
>
> shhhhh.... don't tell secrets.

shhh again -- hope they don't raise the price
Dee Dee

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 19:01:05 +0000 (UTC), David Arnstein wrote:

> I've tasted their packaged goods many times, and I find them lacking.
> The chocolate has a weird sour (not bitter) taste that is not
> pleasant.
>
To each his own. I like their product.

> It is also quite expensive.

The price is very reasonable, considering it's high end chocolate.

In article >,
David Arnstein > wrote:
>In article .com>,
>Leila > wrote:
>>"Scharffen Berger markets to the refined palate and seeks to be
>>approached like a fine wine. Its best-selling products include
>>bittersweet and extra-dark chocolates. The company has retail stores in
>>Berkeley, San Francisco and New York. Its products also are available
>>in high-end supermarkets."
>
>This gives me more confidence in my theory: Scharffen Berger is a
>sham. Here they are, announcing that they are being acquired by the
>king of mass market, low quality chocolate, and simultaneously
>claiming the high end of the market.
>
>I've tasted their packaged goods many times, and I find them lacking.
>The chocolate has a weird sour (not bitter) taste that is not
>pleasant.
>
>It is also quite expensive.

Donelly's Chocolate in Santa Cruz is the best I've ever had, although
inexpensive it isn't.

http://www.donnellychocolates.com/

As a calibration of my tastes: I think Valhrona is better than Scharffen
Berger, I dislike Ghirardelli's, and I mostly eat Trader Joe's Pound
Plus bittersweet because it's a good chocolate at a great price.

--
Stef ** avid/sensible/sensual/wise/essential/elemental/tangle
** <*> http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef
**
Don't tell me how hard you work. Tell me how much you get done.
-- James J. Ling

In article >, (Stef)
wrote:

> Donelly's Chocolate in Santa Cruz is the best I've ever had, although
> inexpensive it isn't.

But they're a chocolatier, not a chocolate manufacturer... a GREAT
chocolatier!

> As a calibration of my tastes: I think Valhrona is better than Scharffen
> Berger, I dislike Ghirardelli's, and I mostly eat Trader Joe's Pound
> Plus bittersweet because it's a good chocolate at a great price.

I *really* like Guittard Chocolates (in Burlingame, been around since
1868).

See http://www.eguittard.com/index.html


--
Glenn Tenney KCTJ CISSP CISM
The email address has been altered for display since spam
is not allowed here, but you can figure it out...