notbob > said:

> On 2005-08-03, Bob (this one) > wrote:
>
> > Examples aren't definitions. Aren't the principles that go to clarify
>
> You just want to argue.

Bob, you're busted!

> You chide me for not providing examples so I
> provide them and you change the issue to definitions. I refer to
> original ketchups at least twice, as I recall, and you tell me I
> haven't. I argue my point and you tell me I have to argue it your
> way. Cripes!, you even argue a complement. I feel confident you can
> carry on this argument without me.

It's important to understand these principles before engaging in a game of
Comparative Opinions with Bob.

Carol

On 2005-08-03, Damsel > wrote:

> It's important to understand these principles before engaging in a game of
> Comparative Opinions with Bob.

LOL... live and learn.

nb

notbob wrote:
> On 2005-08-03, Bob (this one) > wrote:
>
>>Examples aren't definitions. Aren't the principles that go to clarify
>
> You just want to argue.

Are you so freakin brain-dead as to not be able to read simple
declarative sentences? Or answer simple questions?

What's a sauce?

Can you handle it? Apparently not.

> You chide me for not providing examples so I
> provide them and you change the issue to definitions.

I don't chide you for not providing *examples*. I chide you for not
providing *definitions*. Descriptions of the category. The rest of what
you post is your feeble efforts to get out of doing so.

> I argue my point and you tell me I have to argue it your
> way.

Right. You ask me for definitions and I provide them. I ask you for the
same thing in return and you do this instead. No definitions.

Do you not know what a definition is? Do you not have a clear idea of
what constitutes a sauce?

> Cripes!, you even argue a complement.

I thanked you for the compliment but corrected its misinformation. You
aren't used to being precise in your writing or speaking, are you?

> I feel confident you can
> carry on this argument without me.

There hasn't been an argument. Merely me plaintively pleading, alone in
the parched desert of your knowledge, for you to say something with
content. Like a definition of what a sauce is. And isn't.

So, hey, sauce-boy; here it is. What's a sauce? What are its
characteristics? How can untrained rookies know when they're looking at
a sauce? How can they recognize something that isn't a sauce? Take them
one at a time if it's easier for you.

Pastorio

Damsel wrote:
> notbob > said:
>
>> On 2005-08-03, Bob (this one) > wrote:
>>
>>> Examples aren't definitions. Aren't the principles that go to
>>> clarify
>>
>> You just want to argue.
>
> Bob, you're busted!

Oh, wow. Not you, too. Now everybody will know.

>> You chide me for not providing examples so I provide them and you
>> change the issue to definitions. I refer to original ketchups at
>> least twice, as I recall, and you tell me I haven't. I argue my
>> point and you tell me I have to argue it your way. Cripes!, you
>> even argue a complement. I feel confident you can carry on this
>> argument without me.
>
> It's important to understand these principles before engaging in a
> game of Comparative Opinions with Bob.

Yeah. I feel really bad about trying to get notbob (thank the Lord for
the "not") to actually define what he thinks sauces are. I mean, it's
damn near vicious of me to want him to actually include substance in his
posts. I've been getting treatment for it, though. My therapy has been
to become more forgiving of the know-nothings by watching FoodTV two
hours a day. Best collection of them on the air.

<sigh> I hope I'm cured soon. I'm starting to want to make semi-homemade
foods where I open seven cans of stuff, dump them together, heat them
and feed them to people I generally like. And tell them I did it "from
scratch." For a sufficiently "somebody else did it" value of "from scratch."

No, seriously...

Pastorio

On 2005-08-03, Bob (this one) > wrote:

> What's a sauce?

Ketchup

nb

notbob wrote:

> On 2005-08-03, Bob (this one) > wrote:
>
>>What's a sauce?
>
> Ketchup

I'm desperately sorry that we exceeded your capacities like this.
Perhaps if I rewrote it with signals, it might help you. Hope springs
eternal and, who knows, maybe the pig *will* sing..

The question is, and had always been, "What *is* a sauce?" It's a
question inquiring not about the name of something you say is a sauce,
but rather about the essential qualities of *all* sauces, that which
defines the very crux of "sauce."

I cannot express how desolated I am that this frankly simple question
has so explosively flummoxed you. Has rendered what sense you have as
moot as ever it could be. Rendered you the Wiley Coyote of intelligent,
informed, precise discourse.

The reason I wrote the question many different ways is that I feared
exactly this unfortunate turn of events despite my invariably sunny,
optimistic demeanor. That's why I asked about criteria for sauces. For
earmarks. For characteristics. I see none in your reply and I also see
the false note of effort at arch humor. I'm crushed that you can't see
how much I was rooting for you to actually succeed. Ok, maybe not
succeed - the pig hasn't ever sung yet - but something with a modicum of
content. Alas...

It is certainly clear that you are notbob.

How about this: You take the definitions I posted and say they're yours.
Saves you all that trouble and, uh, thought.

The sad prelude to your saucy Waterloo:
"What's a sauce? What are its characteristics? How can untrained rookies
know when they're looking at a sauce? How can they recognize something
that isn't a sauce? Take them one at a time if it's easier for you."

No, seriously...

Pastorio

On 2005-08-03, Bob (this one) > wrote:

> "What's a sauce?

"Definitions of alfredo on the Web:

* A pasta sauce originally consisting of butter, cream, and the
finest parmesan cheese available."

nb

"Bob Myers" > said:

> And that's all I'se gots ta say 'bout that. I have to go make my
> Alfredo sauce, anyway....;-)

Try Pastorio's recipe. It's great!

Carol

"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
...
>
> What's a sauce?
>

At this point, does anyone beyond the Hopelessly Anal-Retentive
even CARE? (And for those people, does "anal-retentive" properly
have a hyphen in it, or not? :-))

Even the pros?

I mean, I have this ridiculous mental image of a restaurant kitchen
coming to a grinding halt because someone says "please hand me
that sauce" while pointing to a bowl containing ketchup or whatever-
the-hell-it-is that goes over the fettucine to make it
Alfredo(E. Neuman)-ized. Everyone in earshot gasps at this
horrific culinary faux pas, and then spends the next thirty minutes
haranguing the poor SOB and describing in painful and
excruciating detail exactly what items do and do not qualify for
that label. Some time during this period, the head of the wait
staff appears to inquire as to why nothing's come out of the kitchen
recently, and is told, "My GOD, man! Where are your
PRIORITIES? We can't COOK - we're resolving serious and
important issues of TERMINOLOGY here!"

Somehow, I think not.

Look, the fact of life is that this is NOT sci.cooking.pedantic;
it's REC.food.cooking, populated in large part by a collection of
happy-go-lucky amateurs who care not one whit about the proper
NAME for something, as long as it tastes good and doesn't
kill anyone. Many of these people are going to use the word
"sauce" to refer to anything remotely liquid which is poured, placed,
slapped onto, brushed, squirted, drizzled on, sprayed, dripped,
spewed, tossed, or otherwise through gravity, pressure, or bad aim
brought into physical contact with some presumably more solid
foodstuffs. These same people may also use "egg roll" when
pointing to a "spring roll," "skillet" when pointing to a "saute pan,"
etc., etc., etc.. A polite correction of such errors, strictly in the
interest of passing on a bit of education, may be in order. Getting
all bent out of shape about such language abuses, and raising both
your own and the collective average blood pressures of the group
in trying to Now And For All Time stamp out such heathenistic
occurences and place us all back on the One True Path of Culinary
Linguistics probably, in my humble opinion, is not.

And that's all I'se gots ta say 'bout that. I have to go make my
Alfredo sauce, anyway....;-)


Bob (this other one) M.

"Bob (this one)" > said:

> I'm starting to want to make semi-homemade
> foods where I open seven cans of stuff, dump them together, heat them
> and feed them to people I generally like. And tell them I did it "from
> scratch." For a sufficiently "somebody else did it" value of "from scratch."

Okay, I was just sharing this recipe with Jill the other night.

Chicken a la King

For the Sauce:
can of condensed cream of chicken soup
half soup can of milk
can of chicken breast meat
half jar of pimientos
1/4 green bell pepper, diced (this is the homemade part)

Combine. Heat.

Serve over one of the following:
puff pastry pie shells (from frozen)
Uncle Ben's boil in bag rice
homemade biscuits (made with Bisquick)

You don't have to thank me. The look on your face is all the reward I
need.

Carol

On 2005-08-03, Damsel > wrote:

> For the Sauce:
> can of condensed cream of chicken soup

Oooohh ...boy, are gonna catch it!

nb

On 2005-08-03, Bob Myers > wrote:

> And that's all I'se gots ta say 'bout that. I have to go make my
> Alfredo sauce, anyway....;-)

Don't forget the mayonnaise!

nb

notbob wrote:
> On 2005-08-03, Bob (this one) > wrote:
>
>>"What's a sauce?
>
> "Definitions of alfredo on the Web:
>
> * A pasta sauce originally consisting of butter, cream, and the
> finest parmesan cheese available."

You may go now that your failure is obvious.

Ta, definition-boy...

Pastorio

On 2005-08-03, Bob (this one) > wrote:

>>>"What's a sauce?

"Definitions of ketchup on the Web:

* Also spelled "catsup." A term derived from Asian cookery, this
sauce is known to be a sweet sauce made from tomatoes."

nb

Bob Myers wrote:
> "Bob (this one)" > wrote
>
>>What's a sauce?
>>
> At this point, does anyone beyond the Hopelessly Anal-Retentive
> even CARE? (And for those people, does "anal-retentive" properly
> have a hyphen in it, or not? :-))
>
> Even the pros?

Are you trying to quit smoking? You can tell us. Many other have tried
only to discover that they become enraged and shriek things at puzzled
strangers. Seriously. You can tell us.

We feel your pain.

> I mean, I have this ridiculous mental image of a restaurant kitchen
> coming to a grinding halt because someone says "please hand me
> that sauce" while pointing to a bowl containing ketchup or whatever-
> the-hell-it-is that goes over the fettucine to make it
> Alfredo(E. Neuman)-ized. Everyone in earshot gasps at this
> horrific culinary faux pas, and then spends the next thirty minutes
> haranguing the poor SOB and describing in painful and
> excruciating detail exactly what items do and do not qualify for
> that label. Some time during this period, the head of the wait
> staff appears to inquire as to why nothing's come out of the kitchen
> recently, and is told, "My GOD, man! Where are your
> PRIORITIES? We can't COOK - we're resolving serious and
> important issues of TERMINOLOGY here!"

Happens every day. Why I remember once in Emeril's kitchen that very
thing, nearly that verbatim conversation, happened and he was so
startled that his BAM slowly trickled down his chin, two exclamation
points got stuck in his teeth and had to be professionally removed. That
was a sight, I can tell you.

> Somehow, I think not.

Well, occasionally...

> Look, the fact of life is that this is NOT sci.cooking.pedantic;
> it's REC.food.cooking, populated in large part by a collection of
> happy-go-lucky amateurs who care not one whit about the proper
> NAME for something, as long as it tastes good and doesn't
> kill anyone.

Here. Try this Merde a la mode. Note the succulence, and effusive yet
aggressive scent notes.

> Many of these people are going to use the word
> "sauce" to refer to anything remotely liquid which is poured, placed,
> slapped onto, brushed, squirted, drizzled on, sprayed, dripped,
> spewed, tossed, or otherwise through gravity, pressure, or bad aim
> brought into physical contact with some presumably more solid
> foodstuffs.

Yep. But they won't try to claim knowledge they don't have. Nor will
they hoist themselves by their own petards when offering no-information
comments while whining about it's having been demonstrated to be
nonsense. The difference, of course, is that most people don't try to
flounce around trying to be cute if they have nothing behind it.

> These same people may also use "egg roll" when
> pointing to a "spring roll," "skillet" when pointing to a "saute pan,"
> etc., etc., etc.. A polite correction of such errors, strictly in the
> interest of passing on a bit of education, may be in order.

Or not, if it's not consequential to them. But perhaps something more
stertorous is in order if they're insisting that that spring roll is a
gooddamit egg roll and no Chinese guy is going to say anything
different. At that point, the claimer has painted a lovely target on
himself.

> Getting
> all bent out of shape about such language abuses, and raising both
> your own and the collective average blood pressures of the group
> in trying to Now And For All Time stamp out such heathenistic
> occurences and place us all back on the One True Path of Culinary
> Linguistics probably, in my humble opinion, is not.

<LOL> Perhaps a tiny bit overstated, no? I honestly didn't get all bent
out of shape. I was enjoying a little target practice with a
particularly slow-moving target. My blood pressure, funny you should
mention it, is and has been right around 122/72 all day. The collective
blood pressure of the group (How quickly you took that poll.) shouldn't
have moved much. I find that derision, mockery, scorn (Sounds like a
bunch of lawyers.) rarely trigger blood pressure rises if it isn't
directed at the specific person.

There's no *one true path* to anything. In the case of nb's
perseverations, it would have been better for him to simply have stated,
"I have no definition of sauce" and let it go. End of discourse.

> And that's all I'se gots ta say 'bout that. I have to go make my
> Alfredo sauce, anyway....;-)

Enjoy.

> Bob (this other one) M.

I'd recognize you in a crowd.

Pastorio

Damsel wrote:
> "Bob (this one)" > said:
>
>>I'm starting to want to make semi-homemade
>>foods where I open seven cans of stuff, dump them together, heat them
>>and feed them to people I generally like. And tell them I did it "from
>>scratch." For a sufficiently "somebody else did it" value of "from scratch."
>
> Okay, I was just sharing this recipe with Jill the other night.
>
> Chicken a la King
>
> For the Sauce:
> can of condensed cream of chicken soup
> half soup can of milk
> can of chicken breast meat
> half jar of pimientos
> 1/4 green bell pepper, diced (this is the homemade part)
>
> Combine. Heat.
>
> Serve over one of the following:
> puff pastry pie shells (from frozen)
> Uncle Ben's boil in bag rice
> homemade biscuits (made with Bisquick)
>
> You don't have to thank me. The look on your face is all the reward I
> need.

Tears of joy...

No, seriously...

Pastorio

On 2005-08-03, Bob (this one) > wrote:

> There's no *one true path* to anything. In the case of nb's
> perseverations, it would have been better for him to simply have stated,
> "I have no definition of sauce" and let it go. End of discourse.

Main Entry: sauce

1 : a condiment or relish for food; especially : a fluid dressing or
topping
2 : something that adds zest or piquancy

notbob > said:

> On 2005-08-03, Damsel > wrote:
>
> > For the Sauce:
> > can of condensed cream of chicken soup
>
> Oooohh ...boy, are gonna catch it!

I'm not ascared of him! If he gets on my nerves, I'll just hurl empty cans
at him. I have plenty. You want I should e-mail you some, so you can
hurl, too?

Carol

"Bob (this one)" > said:

> There's no *one true path* to anything. In the case of nb's
> perseverations, it would have been better for him to simply have stated,
> "I have no definition of sauce" and let it go. End of discourse.

I prefer the perennial, "I don't give a rat's ass," myself.

Carol

On 2005-08-04, Damsel > wrote:

> I'm not ascared of him! If he gets on my nerves, I'll just hurl empty cans
> at him. I have plenty. You want I should e-mail you some, so you can
> hurl, too?


Which begs the question, if you eat a sauce and hurl chunks, is it
still a sauce.

nb

notbob > said:

> On 2005-08-04, Damsel > wrote:
>
> > I'm not ascared of him! If he gets on my nerves, I'll just hurl empty cans
> > at him. I have plenty. You want I should e-mail you some, so you can
> > hurl, too?
>
> Which begs the question, if you eat a sauce and hurl chunks, is it
> still a sauce.

Of course. It is a sauce which is now tossed gently with portions of your
meal which were not originally dressed with said sauce.

Carol

Damsel wrote on 03 Aug 2005 in rec.food.cooking

> notbob > said:
>
> > On 2005-08-03, Damsel > wrote:
> >
> > > For the Sauce:
> > > can of condensed cream of chicken soup
> >
> > Oooohh ...boy, are gonna catch it!
>
> I'm not ascared of him! If he gets on my nerves, I'll just hurl
> empty cans at him. I have plenty. You want I should e-mail you
> some, so you can hurl, too?
>
> Carol
>

Hurl?...Isn't that Scotish for Hork!.

--
It's not a question of where he grips it!
It's a simple question of weight ratios!

A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

The "properties" of a sauce:

Adds moisture
adds sheen or gloss
augments the flavor of the item

According to my training, there are indeed many "condiments" that are
technically sauces. Not all of them are born of the French "Mother Sauces"
but they are sauces, none the less. "Salsa" is the Spanish term for what
English word?

Not all French sauces are based on stocks. Hollandaise is propably the most
common that comes to mind. Would you call Hollandaise a sauce???

Whether "Alfredo Sauce" is a sauce or a finish can be debated . But if the
cream, butter and parm were prepared seperately and held, would you not call
it a sauce?? It may not be exclusive to Alfredo Fettucini, but that is no
less a sauce. Saying there is no such a thing as Benedict Sauce
(Hollandaise) might be correct, but Hollandaise is surely a sauce, no?

Is that the hair we've been splitting here?

"zuuum" > said:

> Whether "Alfredo Sauce" is a sauce or a finish can be debated . But if the
> cream, butter and parm were prepared seperately and held, would you not call
> it a sauce?? It may not be exclusive to Alfredo Fettucini, but that is no
> less a sauce.

Turns out, Fettucini Alfredo is nothing more than a bowl of hot pasta, some
melted butter, and some Parmesan tossed into the whole mess. No cream.
Definitely not a sauce. F.A. is what I eat when there's nothing else in
the house. I'm *so* disillusioned.

But try Pastorio's Half-Assed ******* Sauce. That's a real sauce!

Carol

zuuum wrote:

> The "properties" of a sauce:
> Adds moisture
> adds sheen or gloss
> augments the flavor of the item

If this is all that sauces are, then the more liberal definitions work.
I don't think this is an exhaustive description, though.

> According to my training, there are indeed many "condiments" that are
> technically sauces. Not all of them are born of the French "Mother Sauces"
> but they are sauces, none the less. "Salsa" is the Spanish term for what
> English word?

Salsa is a different word than sauce. It can mean sauce, but it means
other things as well. Are chopped vegetables with vinegar and olive oil
a sauce?

> Not all French sauces are based on stocks. Hollandaise is propably the most
> common that comes to mind. Would you call Hollandaise a sauce???

You haven't been reading this thread, have you?

> Whether "Alfredo Sauce" is a sauce or a finish can be debated . But if the
> cream, butter and parm were prepared seperately and held, would you not call
> it a sauce?? It may not be exclusive to Alfredo Fettucini, but that is no
> less a sauce.

There's no cream in Alfredo. There's cream in what you're calling
Alfredo Sauce. Different things. Would you call melted butter with some
grated parm in it a sauce? Especially when they're added separately to a
bowl of finished pasta?

> Saying there is no such a thing as Benedict Sauce
> (Hollandaise) might be correct, but Hollandaise is surely a sauce, no?

Yes. It is.

> Is that the hair we've been splitting here?

No. We've been trying to actually look at the hair. See what definitions
and characteristics define them. Like you've done.

Pastorio

notbob wrote:
> On 2005-08-03, Bob (this one) > wrote:
>
>>>>"What's a sauce?
>
> "Definitions of ketchup on the Web:
>
> * Also spelled "catsup." A term derived from Asian cookery, this
> sauce is known to be a sweet sauce made from tomatoes."

You get more and more cute with each passing...

With each passing...

Pastorio

notbob wrote:
> On 2005-08-03, Bob (this one) > wrote:
>
>>There's no *one true path* to anything. In the case of nb's
>>perseverations, it would have been better for him to simply have stated,
>>"I have no definition of sauce" and let it go. End of discourse.
>
> Main Entry: sauce
>
> 1 : a condiment or relish for food; especially : a fluid dressing or
> topping
> 2 : something that adds zest or piquancy

Finally. A definition. Not actually yours. From some other *uncredited*
source, but a definition. Congratulations.

It only took about 45 tries asking you for a definition for you to come
up with one. The decidedly non-culinary tone to the definition says you
went to some source not from within the field, but, hey, reading *any*
book will improve your mind.

Well, maybe not *your* mind...

I see you looked up "perseverations."

No, seriously...

Pastorio

Damsel wrote:
> "Bob (this one)" > said:
>
>>There's no *one true path* to anything. In the case of nb's
>>perseverations, it would have been better for him to simply have stated,
>>"I have no definition of sauce" and let it go. End of discourse.
>
> I prefer the perennial, "I don't give a rat's ass," myself.

They're good with a light sauce.

I'm told.

Pastorio

Damsel wrote:

> "zuuum" > said:
>
>>Whether "Alfredo Sauce" is a sauce or a finish can be debated . But if the
>>cream, butter and parm were prepared seperately and held, would you not call
>>it a sauce?? It may not be exclusive to Alfredo Fettucini, but that is no
>>less a sauce.
>
> Turns out, Fettucini Alfredo is nothing more than a bowl of hot pasta, some
> melted butter, and some Parmesan tossed into the whole mess. No cream.
> Definitely not a sauce. F.A. is what I eat when there's nothing else in
> the house. I'm *so* disillusioned.

I just love how your eyes sparkle when you're so disillusioned.

> But try Pastorio's Half-Assed ******* Sauce. That's a real sauce!

I would characterize it more as "saucelike" or "sauce-istic."

Sauceous.

Um...

Pastorio

On 2005-08-04, Bob (this one) > wrote:

> Finally. A definition.

"SAUCES

In cooking, a sauce is a liquid served on or used in the preparation
of food. Sauces are not consumed by themselves; they add flavour,
moisture, and visual appeal to another dish.....[snip for length]

Examples of sauces:

French sauces:

[snip for length]

Sauces made of chopped fresh ingredients:

* Latin American Salsa cruda of various kinds
* Salsa verde

Hot sauces:

* Chili sauce
* Tabasco sauce

East Asian sauces:

Prepared sauces

* Black bean sauce
* Duck sauce, or Plum sauce
* Hoisin sauce
* Oyster sauce
* Soy sauce

Cooked sauces

* Lobster sauce
* Sweet and sour sauce
* Teriyaki - a way of cooking in Japan, a branch of
sauces in North America.

Southeast Asian sauces:

* Fish sauce
* Sambal

Other sauces:

* Barbecue sauce
* Mole
* Tomato sauce
* Tzatziki

Also see: Condiment - Coulis - Custard - Garum - Ketchup -Kochujang
Mustard - Salad dressing - Salsa - Toenjang"


nb

notbob wrote:

> On 2005-08-04, Bob (this one) > wrote:
>
>>Finally. A definition.
>
> "SAUCES
>
> In cooking, a sauce is a liquid served on or used in the preparation
> of food. Sauces are not consumed by themselves; they add flavour,
> moisture, and visual appeal to another dish.....[snip for length]

Halley... Hellol... Halele...

Fantastic. The guy comes through, pretty much. Definition a bit vague
and disputed by the examples, but it's a start. And a finish.

Good on ya, notbob. Now if you just iron out the inconsistencies like
that "chopped fresh ingredients" not exactly being a "liquid served on
or used in the preparation of food"... Or hoisin sauce as a liquid. Or
cranberry sauce, which is actually a jelly and gelid, not liquid, or
applesauce which is often eaten alone... Mustard?

For the non-professional who wrote the definition, language dictated
inclusion rather than a truly coherent culinary definition. This
definition is so broad. and so inclusive in its list of foods that don't
really conform to the definition that I find it unworkable. But, hey, if
this is what you want, carry on.

And if all the other preparations listed at the bottom are actually to
be included, then sauces are pretty much all things to all people and
*nothing* served as an accompaniment or garnish like the list below is
not a sauce. Pickled walnuts suddenly fit. Roasted garlic puree. Pickle
relish. Major Grey's Chutney. Lemon juice. Velveeta...

I found the whole entry below at the following sites:
<http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Sauce>
<http://www.nanriver.com/articles/Sauce>
<http://www.iridis.com/Sauce>
<http://july.fixedreference.org/en/20040724/wikipedia/Sauce>
<http://www.what-means.com/encyclopedia/Sauce>
<http://en.mcfly.org/Sauce>

See the whole list of them, all stolen from some undisclosed original
source: <http://tinyurl.com/8qxn9>



> Examples of sauces:
>
> French sauces:
>
> [snip for length]
>
> Sauces made of chopped fresh ingredients:
>
> * Latin American Salsa cruda of various kinds
> * Salsa verde
>
> Hot sauces:
>
> * Chili sauce
> * Tabasco sauce
>
> East Asian sauces:
>
> Prepared sauces
>
> * Black bean sauce
> * Duck sauce, or Plum sauce
> * Hoisin sauce
> * Oyster sauce
> * Soy sauce
>
> Cooked sauces
>
> * Lobster sauce
> * Sweet and sour sauce
> * Teriyaki - a way of cooking in Japan, a branch of
> sauces in North America.
>
> Southeast Asian sauces:
>
> * Fish sauce
> * Sambal
>
> Other sauces:
>
> * Barbecue sauce
> * Mole
> * Tomato sauce
> * Tzatziki
>
> Also see: Condiment - Coulis - Custard - Garum - Ketchup -Kochujang
> Mustard - Salad dressing - Salsa - Toenjang"

"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
...
> zuuum wrote:
>
>> The "properties" of a sauce:
>> Adds moisture
>> adds sheen or gloss
>> augments the flavor of the item
>
> If this is all that sauces are, then the more liberal definitions work. I
> don't think this is an exhaustive description, though.
>
>> According to my training, there are indeed many "condiments" that are
>> technically sauces. Not all of them are born of the French "Mother
>> Sauces" but they are sauces, none the less. "Salsa" is the Spanish term
>> for what English word?
>
> Salsa is a different word than sauce. It can mean sauce, but it means
> other things as well. Are chopped vegetables with vinegar and olive oil a
> sauce?
>

Do we need a more exhaustive description of a sauce???? Is a coulis a
sauce? LOL that doesn't even need oil.

"Damsel" > wrote in message
...
> "zuuum" > said:
>
>> Whether "Alfredo Sauce" is a sauce or a finish can be debated . But if
>> the
>> cream, butter and parm were prepared seperately and held, would you not
>> call
>> it a sauce?? It may not be exclusive to Alfredo Fettucini, but that is
>> no
>> less a sauce.
>
> Turns out, Fettucini Alfredo is nothing more than a bowl of hot pasta,
> some
> melted butter, and some Parmesan tossed into the whole mess. No cream.
> Definitely not a sauce. F.A. is what I eat when there's nothing else in
> the house. I'm *so* disillusioned.
>
Dang! Once again I was handed down my habit of finishing Alfredo with an
additional liaison of reduced cream and egg yolk. Then I guess I got really
carried away and I started using a white wine with peppercorn reduction in
the mix. Sure taste good, anyway. Just takes a little practice to keep
from breaking. Try it. Maybe I should name it after myself instead of
Alfredo?

"zuuum" > wrote in news:11f3tvsim05m4e4
@corp.supernews.com:

> Try it. Maybe I should name it after myself instead of
> Alfredo?


Fettucini Alzedo?

http://tinyurl.com/b7g4s

Andy

"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
...
> notbob wrote:
> > On 2005-08-03, Bob (this one) > wrote:
> >
> >>Examples aren't definitions. Aren't the principles that go to clarify
> >
> > You just want to argue.
>
> Are you so freakin brain-dead as to not be able to read simple
> declarative sentences? Or answer simple questions?
>
> What's a sauce?
>
> Can you handle it? Apparently not.
>
> > You chide me for not providing examples so I
> > provide them and you change the issue to definitions.
>
> I don't chide you for not providing *examples*. I chide you for not
> providing *definitions*. Descriptions of the category. The rest of what
> you post is your feeble efforts to get out of doing so.
>
> > I argue my point and you tell me I have to argue it your
> > way.
>
> Right. You ask me for definitions and I provide them. I ask you for the
> same thing in return and you do this instead. No definitions.
>
> Do you not know what a definition is? Do you not have a clear idea of
> what constitutes a sauce?
>
> > Cripes!, you even argue a complement.
>
> I thanked you for the compliment but corrected its misinformation. You
> aren't used to being precise in your writing or speaking, are you?
>
> > I feel confident you can
> > carry on this argument without me.
>
> There hasn't been an argument. Merely me plaintively pleading, alone in
> the parched desert of your knowledge, for you to say something with
> content. Like a definition of what a sauce is. And isn't.
>
> So, hey, sauce-boy; here it is. What's a sauce? What are its
> characteristics? How can untrained rookies know when they're looking at
> a sauce? How can they recognize something that isn't a sauce? Take them
> one at a time if it's easier for you.

Look, right, see - forget about all that - tell me, WTF constitutes the
definition of a... *pie* ?

Well HUH?



Shaun aRe

"Bob Myers" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > What's a sauce?
> >
>
> At this point, does anyone beyond the Hopelessly Anal-Retentive
> even CARE? (And for those people, does "anal-retentive" properly
> have a hyphen in it, or not? :-))
>
> Even the pros?
>
> I mean, I have this ridiculous mental image of a restaurant kitchen
> coming to a grinding halt because someone says "please hand me
> that sauce" while pointing to a bowl containing ketchup or whatever-
> the-hell-it-is that goes over the fettucine to make it
> Alfredo(E. Neuman)-ized. Everyone in earshot gasps at this
> horrific culinary faux pas, and then spends the next thirty minutes
> haranguing the poor SOB and describing in painful and
> excruciating detail exactly what items do and do not qualify for
> that label. Some time during this period, the head of the wait
> staff appears to inquire as to why nothing's come out of the kitchen
> recently, and is told, "My GOD, man! Where are your
> PRIORITIES? We can't COOK - we're resolving serious and
> important issues of TERMINOLOGY here!"
>
> Somehow, I think not.
>
> Look, the fact of life is that this is NOT sci.cooking.pedantic;
> it's REC.food.cooking, populated in large part by a collection of
> happy-go-lucky amateurs who care not one whit about the proper
> NAME for something, as long as it tastes good and doesn't
> kill anyone. Many of these people are going to use the word
> "sauce" to refer to anything remotely liquid which is poured, placed,
> slapped onto, brushed, squirted, drizzled on, sprayed, dripped,
> spewed, tossed, or otherwise through gravity, pressure, or bad aim
> brought into physical contact with some presumably more solid
> foodstuffs. These same people may also use "egg roll" when
> pointing to a "spring roll," "skillet" when pointing to a "saute pan,"
> etc., etc., etc.. A polite correction of such errors, strictly in the
> interest of passing on a bit of education, may be in order. Getting
> all bent out of shape about such language abuses, and raising both
> your own and the collective average blood pressures of the group
> in trying to Now And For All Time stamp out such heathenistic
> occurences and place us all back on the One True Path of Culinary
> Linguistics probably, in my humble opinion, is not.
>
> And that's all I'se gots ta say 'bout that. I have to go make my
> Alfredo sauce, anyway....;-)
>
>
> Bob (this other one) M.

Oh I dunno Bob (the other one) M - I've been finding this whole thing a
total riot of side splitting laughter myself, heheheheh, w00000000t!


Oh and BTW - I'll tell ye all what 'sauce' _really_ is - it's what I gots
*plenty* of.

Now stick that in yer pan and reduce it LOL!

',;~}~


Shaun aRe
--
Whenever I talk in circles, all the squares go elsewhere.

"Damsel" > wrote in message
...
> "Bob (this one)" > said:
>
> > Damsel wrote:
> > > "Bob (this one)" > said:
> > >
> > >>Damsel wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>I've made that for years. I just call it buttered spaghetti. My
cheese
> > >>>always clumps - I've never gotten it to form anything that anyone,
> > >>>anywhere, would ever call a sauce. I mix this in the bowl.
> > >>
> > >>It won't ever melt into the butter. You want to butter the pasta
first,
> > >>then grate cheese evenly over top. Toss quickly and serve. Add more
> > >>cheese after service, if desired.
> > >
> > > So, the crap I make when I don't have enough money for spaghetti sauce
is
> > > Alfredo?
> >
> > Why, yes. And the correct name for it, as you've hinted is "Pasta con
> > crap Alfredo." Very popular in certain quarters.
> >
> > <LOL>
>
> And what is the proper name for this crap if I add granulated garlic and
> black pepper to the mix? (Damn, it's hard to type with one's pinky
> extended)
>
> > > I stopped trying to heat this with the cheese in it because of
> > > the clumping, so I'm apparently making Alfredo when I'm broke. I've
gotta
> > > say, I'd find a cream sauce with Parmesan to be much more enjoyable.
> >
> > Use some milk. Real milk. Or some skim crap (my how often that shows up
> > in culinary discourse) with butter in it. The start of a cream coating
> > for the pasta. For a pound of pasta, let's build a hypothetical
> > dressing. 1/2 cup milk, three tablespoons butter and a garlic clove
> > (mashed and very finely minced) heated until the butter melts and it
> > comes to a boil. Stir to distribute the butter and to poach the garlic.
> > Reduce to about 1/3 cup - the reduction will thicken a bit and have a
> > richer mouthfeel. More butter wouldn't hurt it, nor would a couple
> > tablespoons bacon fat. Meanwhile, break an egg into a large bowl and add
> > 1/4 cup parmesan cheese and some fresh, flat leaf parsley. A good
> > grating of black pepper. When the pasta is done, drain it. Dump the milk
> > reduction into the bowl with the egg and whisk furiously to mix it all
> > together. Dump the pasta in and toss quickly to full coat. Serve
> > immediately. More cheese at table. This is a half-assed approximation of
> > a French Sauce Batard (q.v.) that itself is enormously flexible.
> >
> > This is a satisfying, creamy dish that can be extended by dropping in
> > some cooked, chopped bacon for a fake Carbonara or some veggies for a
> > fake primavera or some leftover lobster, truffles and caviar if the
> > queen pops in suddenly unannounced. It's a good base for adding lots of
> > different things either as extenders or as flavorings. Or both.
>
> So Sauce ******* is the key for making all manner of fake pasta dishes.

>
> > > If you were to serve linguine with clam sauce (not red), what would be
in
> > > it?
> >
> > Olive oil, garlic (sauteed briefly to infuse the oil, but not cooked
> > dark because it gets bitter), the juice from the clams (clam liquor,
> > technically) or some rich chicken stock, lots of chopped clams (I don't
> > think the tiny ones have as much flavor YMMV), some white wine mixed
> > with a dash of cornstarch so it sticks to the pasta. Stir the starch
> > into the wine and dump it into the skillet at the last minute. It
> > thickens as it hits boiling temperature and no need to simmer and skim,
> > because starches have no protein impurities. Red pepper flakes if you
> > want some pungency. Finely minced fresh thyme and a little rosemary. a
> > squeeze of lemon juice will give it some sparkle.
>
> Okay, now I'm hungry! LOL!
>
> Lately, I've been eating canned clams for a late-night snack. Melt a glob
> of butter, heat a can of clams through in the butter, add Parmesan,
cracked
> black pepper, and granulated garlic. Very nice low-carb snack.
>
> Carol

And of course the combination of clam liquid, butter, garlic, parmesan and
pepper make the most *delightful* little sauce!



<Ahem.>

Shaun aRe

On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 13:01:51 +0100, "Shaun aRe"
> wrote:

>Look, right, see - forget about all that - tell me, WTF constitutes the
>definition of a... *pie* ?
>Well HUH?
>Shaun aRe
>
Well let's see. Pie = "The ratio of the circumference to the diameter
of a circle 3.12159265...........on and on.....".

day dreamer@dream .com@ wrote:

>Well let's see. Pie = "The ratio of the circumference to the diameter
>of a circle 3.12159265...........on and on.....".
>
>

and never forget - pi are not square, pi are round.

--
The Doc says my brain waves closely match those of a crazed ferret.
At least now I have an excuse.

"notbob" > wrote in message
...

> Main Entry: sauce
>
> 1 : a condiment or relish for food; especially : a fluid dressing or
> topping
> 2 : something that adds zest or piquancy

And if you go on just a bit past that, we find:

Sauced (v.t.) - What I would prefer to be at this point.


Bob M.