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What makes chutney chutney?
My State Fair is in a coupla weeks and I'm up to my, uh, elbows in
fruit, pectin, sugar, and vinegar preparing for same. One of the categories I'm entering is fruit chutney (Includes fruit, a little heat, ginger, mustard seeds, vinegar). They also have a category for salsa. In the early stages of the chutney cooking, I looked at it and thought, "Heh, I wonder if I could get away with calling this salsa." I've got a jar of TJ Spicy, Smoky, Peach Salsa, Personally, I think this newfangled idea of calling a fruit relish a salsa is dippy, but that's just me. Anyway, in looking at the ingredient list for the Peach Salsa, I see that it contains peaches, tomato puree, tomatoes, onions, sugar, chipotles, vinegar, lemon juice, salt & spices. The tablespoon that *somebody* (who shall remain nameless but his first name starts with Rob) left in the jar rather than finishing is liquid and devoid of much texture at this point. Now that the chutney has cooked some more, I'm thinking it's the wrong consistency for salsa so that takes care of that idea. But still, what makes my fruit relish a chutney? Because someone decided to call it that? Because it has ginger? Mustard seed? It can't be the consistency because I've had an Afghani chutney (Really good recipe below - reminded me of that schoog stuff I posted about last week) that's liquid and chunkless. Color me Inquisitive. * Exported from MasterCook Mac * Cilantro Chutney Recipe By : Da Afghan Restaurant Cookbook, Afghani Cooking, p. 91 Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Condiments Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 bunch cilantro 1 clove garlic 1/2 cup cider vinegar 2 jalapeño peppers 2 walnuts 1 teaspoon salt Wash cilantro, peel garlic and remove seeds from peppers. Put all ingredients into a blender and thoroughly blend. Keep refrigerated. Serve with naan bread or kebobs. ___ -- -Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5) |
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Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> My State Fair is in a coupla weeks and I'm up to my, uh, elbows in > fruit, pectin, sugar, and vinegar preparing for same. > > One of the categories I'm entering is fruit chutney (Includes fruit, a > little heat, ginger, mustard seeds, vinegar). They also have a category > for salsa. > > In the early stages of the chutney cooking, I looked at it and thought, > "Heh, I wonder if I could get away with calling this salsa." I've got a > jar of TJ Spicy, Smoky, Peach Salsa, Personally, I think this > newfangled idea of calling a fruit relish a salsa is dippy, but that's > just me. Anyway, in looking at the ingredient list for the Peach Salsa, > I see that it contains peaches, tomato puree, tomatoes, onions, sugar, > chipotles, vinegar, lemon juice, salt & spices. The tablespoon that > *somebody* (who shall remain nameless but his first name starts with > Rob) left in the jar rather than finishing is liquid and devoid of much > texture at this point. > > Now that the chutney has cooked some more, I'm thinking it's the wrong > consistency for salsa so that takes care of that idea. But still, what > makes my fruit relish a chutney? Because someone decided to call it > that? Because it has ginger? Mustard seed? It can't be the > consistency because I've had an Afghani chutney (Really good recipe > below - reminded me of that schoog stuff I posted about last week) > that's liquid and chunkless. > > Color me Inquisitive. > > > > * Exported from MasterCook Mac * > > Cilantro Chutney > > Recipe By : Da Afghan Restaurant Cookbook, Afghani Cooking, p. 91 > Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 > Categories : Condiments > > Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method > -------- ------------ -------------------------------- > 1 bunch cilantro > 1 clove garlic > 1/2 cup cider vinegar > 2 jalape=F1o peppers > 2 walnuts > 1 teaspoon salt > > Wash cilantro, peel garlic and remove seeds from peppers. > > Put all ingredients into a blender and thoroughly blend. Keep > refrigerated. > > Serve with naan bread or kebobs. My first thought to the main question would be that chutney is cooked (or at least pickled in some way and salsa is raw. Mike |
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On Thu 11 Aug 2005 07:32:55a, Melba's Jammin' wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> Now that the chutney has cooked some more, I'm thinking it's the wrong > consistency for salsa so that takes care of that idea. But still, what > makes my fruit relish a chutney? Because someone decided to call it > that? Because it has ginger? Mustard seed? It can't be the > consistency because I've had an Afghani chutney (Really good recipe > below - reminded me of that schoog stuff I posted about last week) > that's liquid and chunkless. > > Color me Inquisitive. > Most all chutneys have in common, sugar, vinegar, spices, and fruit. In spite of their usual sweetness, the flavor note is "pungent". There is no single ingredient that qualifies it as chutney. -- Wayne Boatwright *¿* ____________________________________________ Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day. Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974 --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0532-3, 08/10/2005 Tested on: 8/11/2005 7:54:39 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
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On Thu 11 Aug 2005 07:43:21a, wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> My first thought to the main question would be that chutney is cooked > (or at least pickled in some way and salsa is raw. > > Mike > That might certainly come to mind first. However, there are also cooked salsas. In western cultures, most chutneys are cooked. However, in India many chutneys are prepared fresh and eaten raw. The flavor construction for a chutney is usually sweet, sour, spicy, pungent, and contains fruit. -- Wayne Boatwright *¿* ____________________________________________ Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day. Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974 --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0532-3, 08/10/2005 Tested on: 8/11/2005 7:57:29 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
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Mi e' parso che Wayne Boatwright abbia scritto:
> Most all chutneys have in common, sugar, vinegar, spices, > and fruit. In spite of their usual sweetness, the flavor > note is "pungent". There is no single ingredient that > qualifies it as chutney. This chutney remembers me of italian "mostarda", which is not mustard but contains mustard seeds in the liquid part, and is made with whole small fruits. It's typical of Piedmont and generally available in the northern part of Italy. Perfect with boiled meat, some kind of mostarda also pair well with cheeses, as the pear-based "mostarda di pere", or "pere mostardate". Sweet and pungent are the words that better describe it. -- Vilco Think Pink , Drink Rose' |
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On Thu 11 Aug 2005 08:06:57a, Vilco wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> Mi e' parso che Wayne Boatwright abbia scritto: > >> Most all chutneys have in common, sugar, vinegar, spices, and fruit. >> In spite of their usual sweetness, the flavor note is "pungent". >> There is no single ingredient that qualifies it as chutney. > > This chutney remembers me of italian "mostarda", which is not > mustard but contains mustard seeds in the liquid part, and is > made with whole small fruits. It's typical of Piedmont and > generally available in the northern part of Italy. > Perfect with boiled meat, some kind of mostarda also pair well > with cheeses, as the pear-based "mostarda di pere", or "pere > mostardate". > Sweet and pungent are the words that better describe it. I would consider mostarda to be a type of chutney. -- Wayne Boatwright *¿* ____________________________________________ Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day. Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974 --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0532-3, 08/10/2005 Tested on: 8/11/2005 8:10:09 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
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In article >, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote: > On Thu 11 Aug 2005 07:32:55a, Melba's Jammin' wrote in rec.food.cooking: > > > Now that the chutney has cooked some more, I'm thinking it's the wrong > > consistency for salsa so that takes care of that idea. But still, what > > makes my fruit relish a chutney? Because someone decided to call it > > that? Because it has ginger? Mustard seed? It can't be the > > consistency because I've had an Afghani chutney (Really good recipe > > below - reminded me of that schoog stuff I posted about last week) > > that's liquid and chunkless. > > > > Color me Inquisitive. > > > > Most all chutneys have in common, sugar, vinegar, spices, and fruit. > In spite of their usual sweetness, the flavor note is "pungent". > There is no single ingredient that qualifies it as chutney. Right. I think you're on to something with the pungent aspect. I'm about to jar and process it now (water's boiling). Thanks, Wayne. -- -Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5) |
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On 2005-08-11, Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
> That might certainly come to mind first. However, there are also cooked > salsas. Si. > many chutneys are prepared fresh and eaten raw. Quite right. > The flavor construction for > a chutney is usually sweet, sour, spicy, pungent, and contains fruit. But, not always. One of my fave chutneys, mint chutney, contains no fruit and the sweet is provided by the onion. ½ cup Mint Leaves ¼th cup Coriander Leaves (cilantro) 1 Green chili, chopped (jalapena or serrano) 1 ½ tablespoons Onion, chopped 3 tablespoons Lemon Juice 4-5 teaspoons Water ¾th teaspoon Salt Puree in blender. Will keep for several days in fridge. nb |
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On Thu 11 Aug 2005 10:18:53a, notbob wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> On 2005-08-11, Wayne Boatwright > wrote: > >> That might certainly come to mind first. However, there are also cooked >> salsas. > > Si. > >> many chutneys are prepared fresh and eaten raw. > > Quite right. > >> The flavor construction for >> a chutney is usually sweet, sour, spicy, pungent, and contains fruit. > > But, not always. One of my fave chutneys, mint chutney, contains no > fruit and the sweet is provided by the onion. > > ½ cup Mint Leaves > ¼th cup Coriander Leaves (cilantro) > 1 Green chili, chopped (jalapena or serrano) > 1 ½ tablespoons Onion, chopped > 3 tablespoons Lemon Juice > 4-5 teaspoons Water > ¾th teaspoon Salt > > Puree in blender. Will keep for several days in fridge. > > nb > That sounds delicious! I must try it when I can get hold of some fresh mint. -- Wayne Boatwright *¿* ____________________________________________ Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day. Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974 --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0532-3, 08/10/2005 Tested on: 8/11/2005 10:32:21 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
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Melba's Jammin' wrote: > My State Fair is in a coupla weeks and I'm up to my, uh, elbows in > fruit, pectin, sugar, and vinegar preparing for same. > > One of the categories I'm entering is fruit chutney (Includes fruit, a > little heat, ginger, mustard seeds, vinegar). They also have a category > for salsa. > > In the early stages of the chutney cooking, I looked at it and thought, > "Heh, I wonder if I could get away with calling this salsa." I've got a > jar of TJ Spicy, Smoky, Peach Salsa, Personally, I think this > newfangled idea of calling a fruit relish a salsa is dippy, but that's > just me. Anyway, in looking at the ingredient list for the Peach Salsa, > I see that it contains peaches, tomato puree, tomatoes, onions, sugar, > chipotles, vinegar, lemon juice, salt & spices. The tablespoon that > *somebody* (who shall remain nameless but his first name starts with > Rob) left in the jar rather than finishing is liquid and devoid of much > texture at this point. > > Now that the chutney has cooked some more, I'm thinking it's the wrong > consistency for salsa so that takes care of that idea. But still, what > makes my fruit relish a chutney? Chutney: a condiment that is made of acidic fruits with added raisins, dates, and onions and seasoned with spices. The key ingredients are the fruit and the onions. |
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"~patches~" > wrote in message ... > I've always been curious about the distinction. I recall reading what a > chutney is in comparison to a salsa in comparison to a relish. In Mexico (which ought to count for SOMETHING), I believe that "salsa" simply means "sauce" in the broadest possible sense of the word. (No, I don't want to restart the Great Alfredo Battle of 2005...) So damned near anything you could pour out of a jar could be (and probably has been, by someone) labelled a "salsa." I think most people, though, would have in mind something that had reasonably small-sized chunks of fruits and/or veggies in it. I would not be at all surprised to find that what we'd call "pickle relish," just for example, winds up as a "salsa" of some sort on store shelves all across Mexico. Merriam-Webster says that "chutney" is derived from a Hindi term, and it appears that vinegar and possibly sugar are the defining ingredients. But I really suspect that at the root of all this, we're just seeing the results of the fact that pretty much all human cultures at some point have chopped up fruits and veggies and used the result (with or without additional liquids, juices, whatever) as a condiment - so we've got at least as many words as there are languages for what's broadly the same thing. Sorta like "noodles" - is there any place on the planet where the locals haven't at some point made long stringlike things out of some sort of flour? Language ain't an exact science, folks...it's a lot messier, and about as stable a situation as trying to nail Jell-O to the wall... Bob M. |
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In article >, ~patches~
> wrote: > wrote: > > > Melba's Jammin' wrote: > >>One of the categories I'm entering is fruit chutney (Includes fruit, a > >>little heat, ginger, mustard seeds, vinegar). They also have a category > >>for salsa. (snippage) > > My first thought to the main question would be that chutney is cooked > > (or at least pickled in some way and salsa is raw. > > > > Mike > > > I've always been curious about the distinction. I recall reading what a > chutney is in comparison to a salsa in comparison to a relish. My State Fair judges have both chutney and salsa as a *type* of relish. Kinda like jams and jellies being a *type* of preserves. -- -Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5) |
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"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message ... > My State Fair is in a coupla weeks and I'm up to my, uh, elbows in > fruit, pectin, sugar, and vinegar preparing for same. <snip> > -Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a > couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5) Interesting question here are the definitions from Epicurious: chutney [CHUHT-nee] From the East Indian word chatni , this spicy condiment contains fruit, vinegar, sugar and spices. It can range in texture from chunky to smooth and in degrees of spiciness from mild to hot. Chutney is a delicious accompaniment to curried dishes. The sweeter chutneys also make interesting bread spreads and are delicious served with cheese. © Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst. salsa [SAHL-sah] The Mexican word for "sauce," which can signify cooked or fresh mixtures. Salsa cruda is "uncooked salsa"; salsa verde is "green salsa," which is typically based on TOMATILLOS, green CHILES and CILANTRO. A broad selection of salsas - fresh, canned or in jars - is available in supermarkets today. They can range in spiciness from mild to mouth-searing. Fresh salsas are located in a market's refrigerated section. At home, they should be tightly covered and refrigerated for up to 5 days. Unopened cooked salsas can be stored at room temperature for 6 months; once opened, refrigerate them for up to 1 month. © Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst. Based upon the above I would say any chutney and be a salsa but few salsa's can be chutneys. The determining factor would be the vinegar since a tomato is a fruit. Dimitri |
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Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >, ~patches~ > > wrote: > > wrote: >> >> >>>Melba's Jammin' wrote: > > >>>>One of the categories I'm entering is fruit chutney (Includes fruit, a >>>>little heat, ginger, mustard seeds, vinegar). They also have a category >>>>for salsa. > > (snippage) > >>>My first thought to the main question would be that chutney is cooked >>>(or at least pickled in some way and salsa is raw. >>> >>>Mike >>> >> >>I've always been curious about the distinction. I recall reading what a >>chutney is in comparison to a salsa in comparison to a relish. > > > My State Fair judges have both chutney and salsa as a *type* of relish. > Kinda like jams and jellies being a *type* of preserves. Salsa doesn't have vinegar? -- Del Cecchi "This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions, strategies or opinions.” |
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"Dimitri" > wrote in message . .. > > "Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message > ... >> My State Fair is in a coupla weeks and I'm up to my, uh, elbows in >> fruit, pectin, sugar, and vinegar preparing for same. > > <snip> > >> -Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a >> couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5) > > Interesting question here are the definitions from Epicurious: > > chutney > [CHUHT-nee] > From the East Indian word chatni , this spicy condiment contains fruit, > vinegar, sugar and spices. It can range in texture from chunky to smooth > and in degrees of spiciness from mild to hot. Chutney is a delicious > accompaniment to curried dishes. The sweeter chutneys also make > interesting bread spreads and are delicious served with cheese. > © Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD > LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst. > > salsa > [SAHL-sah] > The Mexican word for "sauce," which can signify cooked or fresh mixtures. > Salsa cruda is "uncooked salsa"; salsa verde is "green salsa," which is > typically based on TOMATILLOS, green CHILES and CILANTRO. A broad > selection of salsas - fresh, canned or in jars - is available in > supermarkets today. They can range in spiciness from mild to > mouth-searing. Fresh salsas are located in a market's refrigerated > section. At home, they should be tightly covered and refrigerated for up > to 5 days. Unopened cooked salsas can be stored at room temperature for 6 > months; once opened, refrigerate them for up to 1 month. > © Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD > LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst. > > > Based upon the above I would say any chutney and be a salsa but few > salsa's can be chutneys. The determining factor would be the vinegar > since a tomato is a fruit. > > Dimitri > According to the Epicurious definition, a cilantro chutney (fresh) would not be classified as a chutney , as it has no fruit; or am I misunderstanding that you can still have a chutney without a fruit and if so, then it would only contain vinegar, sugar and spices. Dee Dee |
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Del Cecchi wrote:
> Melba's Jammin' wrote: > >> In article >, ~patches~ >> > wrote: >> >> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Melba's Jammin' wrote: >> >> >> >>>>> One of the categories I'm entering is fruit chutney (Includes fruit, a >>>>> little heat, ginger, mustard seeds, vinegar). They also have a >>>>> category >>>>> for salsa. >> >> >> (snippage) >> >>>> My first thought to the main question would be that chutney is cooked >>>> (or at least pickled in some way and salsa is raw. >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>> >>> I've always been curious about the distinction. I recall reading >>> what a chutney is in comparison to a salsa in comparison to a relish. >> >> >> >> My State Fair judges have both chutney and salsa as a *type* of >> relish. Kinda like jams and jellies being a *type* of preserves. > > Salsa doesn't have vinegar? > My recipe does along with lime & lemon juices. |
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In article >, Del Cecchi
> wrote: > Melba's Jammin' wrote: > > In article >, ~patches~ > > > wrote: > >>I've always been curious about the distinction. I recall reading > >>what a chutney is in comparison to a salsa in comparison to a > >>relish. > > My State Fair judges have both chutney and salsa as a *type* of > > relish. > > > > Kinda like jams and jellies being a *type* of preserves. > Salsa doesn't have vinegar? The ones tested for safe canning do. -- -Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5) |
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"Dee Randall" > wrote in message ... > <Snip> > According to the Epicurious definition, a cilantro chutney (fresh) would not > be classified as a chutney , as it has no fruit; or am I misunderstanding that > you can still have a chutney without a fruit and if so, then it would only > contain vinegar, sugar and spices. > Dee Dee I think the walnuts and peppers would classify as fruits. If a tomato is a fruit is a pepper? Dimitri |
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In article >, "Dee Randall"
> wrote: > "Dimitri" > wrote in message > . .. > > > > "Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message > > ... > >> My State Fair is in a coupla weeks and I'm up to my, uh, elbows in > >> fruit, pectin, sugar, and vinegar preparing for same. > > > > <snip> > > > >> -Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a > >> couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5) > > > > Interesting question here are the definitions from Epicurious: > > > > chutney > > [CHUHT-nee] > > From the East Indian word chatni , this spicy condiment contains > > fruit, vinegar, sugar and spices. It can range in texture from > > chunky to smooth and in degrees of spiciness from mild to hot. > > Chutney is a delicious accompaniment to curried dishes. The sweeter > > chutneys also make interesting bread spreads and are delicious > > served with cheese. > > © Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD > > LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst. > > > > salsa [SAHL-sah] The Mexican word for "sauce," which can signify > > cooked or fresh mixtures. Salsa cruda is "uncooked salsa"; salsa > > verde is "green salsa," which is typically based on TOMATILLOS, > > green CHILES and CILANTRO. A broad selection of salsas - fresh, > > canned or in jars - is available in supermarkets today. They can > > range in spiciness from mild to mouth-searing. Fresh salsas are > > located in a market's refrigerated section. At home, they should be > > tightly covered and refrigerated for up to 5 days. Unopened cooked > > salsas can be stored at room temperature for 6 months; once opened, > > refrigerate them for up to 1 month. > > © Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD > > LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst. > > > > > > Based upon the above I would say any chutney and be a salsa but few > > salsa's can be chutneys. The determining factor would be the vinegar > > since a tomato is a fruit. > > > > Dimitri > > > According to the Epicurious definition, a cilantro chutney (fresh) > would not be classified as a chutney , as it has no fruit; or am I > misunderstanding that you can still have a chutney without a fruit > and if so, then it would only contain vinegar, sugar and spices. > Dee Dee The folks at Da Afghan restaurant in town refer to their two bread-dipping sauces as chutneys; neither involves fruit. I posted the recipe for the Cilantro Chutney they serve. I'm sure not going to tell them it's not really chutney. :-0) Oh, where is Shankar when we need him!? -- -Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5) |
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On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:35:59 GMT, "Dimitri" >
connected the dots and wrote: ~ ~"Dee Randall" > wrote in message ... ~> ~ ~<Snip> ~ ~ ~> According to the Epicurious definition, a cilantro chutney (fresh) would not ~> be classified as a chutney , as it has no fruit; or am I misunderstanding that ~> you can still have a chutney without a fruit and if so, then it would only ~> contain vinegar, sugar and spices. ~> Dee Dee ~ ~ ~I think the walnuts and peppers would classify as fruits. ~ ~ ~If a tomato is a fruit is a pepper? ~ ~Dimitri ~ Botanically speaking, yes. maxine in ri |
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On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:42:34 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> connected the dots and wrote: ~In article >, "Dee Randall" > wrote: ~ ~> "Dimitri" > wrote in message ~> . .. ~> > ~> > "Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message ~> > ... ~> >> My State Fair is in a coupla weeks and I'm up to my, uh, elbows in ~> >> fruit, pectin, sugar, and vinegar preparing for same. ~> > ~> > <snip> ~> > ~> >> -Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a ~> >> couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5) ~> > ~> > Interesting question here are the definitions from Epicurious: ~> > ~> > chutney ~> > [CHUHT-nee] ~> > From the East Indian word chatni , this spicy condiment contains ~> > fruit, vinegar, sugar and spices. It can range in texture from ~> > chunky to smooth and in degrees of spiciness from mild to hot. ~> > Chutney is a delicious accompaniment to curried dishes. The sweeter ~> > chutneys also make interesting bread spreads and are delicious ~> > served with cheese. ~ ~> > © Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD ~> > LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst. ~> > ~> > salsa [SAHL-sah] The Mexican word for "sauce," which can signify ~> > cooked or fresh mixtures. Salsa cruda is "uncooked salsa"; salsa ~> > verde is "green salsa," which is typically based on TOMATILLOS, ~> > green CHILES and CILANTRO. A broad selection of salsas - fresh, ~> > canned or in jars - is available in supermarkets today. They can ~> > range in spiciness from mild to mouth-searing. Fresh salsas are ~> > located in a market's refrigerated section. At home, they should be ~> > tightly covered and refrigerated for up to 5 days. Unopened cooked ~> > salsas can be stored at room temperature for 6 months; once opened, ~> > refrigerate them for up to 1 month. ~ ~> > © Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD ~> > LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst. ~> > ~> > ~> > Based upon the above I would say any chutney and be a salsa but few ~> > salsa's can be chutneys. The determining factor would be the vinegar ~> > since a tomato is a fruit. ~> > ~> > Dimitri ~> > ~> According to the Epicurious definition, a cilantro chutney (fresh) ~> would not be classified as a chutney , as it has no fruit; or am I ~> misunderstanding that you can still have a chutney without a fruit ~> and if so, then it would only contain vinegar, sugar and spices. ~ ~> Dee Dee ~ ~The folks at Da Afghan restaurant in town refer to their two ~bread-dipping sauces as chutneys; neither involves fruit. I posted the ~recipe for the Cilantro Chutney they serve. I'm sure not going to tell ~them it's not really chutney. :-0) Oh, where is Shankar when we need ~him!? Or TJ. maxine in ri |
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On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:42:34 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> connected the dots and wrote: ~In article >, "Dee Randall" > wrote: ~ ~> "Dimitri" > wrote in message ~> . .. ~> > ~> > "Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message ~> > ... ~> >> My State Fair is in a coupla weeks and I'm up to my, uh, elbows in ~> >> fruit, pectin, sugar, and vinegar preparing for same. ~> > ~> > <snip> ~> > ~> >> -Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a ~> >> couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5) ~> > ~> > Interesting question here are the definitions from Epicurious: ~> > ~> > chutney ~> > [CHUHT-nee] ~> > From the East Indian word chatni , this spicy condiment contains ~> > fruit, vinegar, sugar and spices. It can range in texture from ~> > chunky to smooth and in degrees of spiciness from mild to hot. ~> > Chutney is a delicious accompaniment to curried dishes. The sweeter ~> > chutneys also make interesting bread spreads and are delicious ~> > served with cheese. ~ ~> > © Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD ~> > LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst. ~> > ~> > salsa [SAHL-sah] The Mexican word for "sauce," which can signify ~> > cooked or fresh mixtures. Salsa cruda is "uncooked salsa"; salsa ~> > verde is "green salsa," which is typically based on TOMATILLOS, ~> > green CHILES and CILANTRO. A broad selection of salsas - fresh, ~> > canned or in jars - is available in supermarkets today. They can ~> > range in spiciness from mild to mouth-searing. Fresh salsas are ~> > located in a market's refrigerated section. At home, they should be ~> > tightly covered and refrigerated for up to 5 days. Unopened cooked ~> > salsas can be stored at room temperature for 6 months; once opened, ~> > refrigerate them for up to 1 month. ~ ~> > © Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD ~> > LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst. ~> > ~> > ~> > Based upon the above I would say any chutney and be a salsa but few ~> > salsa's can be chutneys. The determining factor would be the vinegar ~> > since a tomato is a fruit. ~> > ~> > Dimitri ~> > ~> According to the Epicurious definition, a cilantro chutney (fresh) ~> would not be classified as a chutney , as it has no fruit; or am I ~> misunderstanding that you can still have a chutney without a fruit ~> and if so, then it would only contain vinegar, sugar and spices. ~ ~> Dee Dee ~ ~The folks at Da Afghan restaurant in town refer to their two ~bread-dipping sauces as chutneys; neither involves fruit. I posted the ~recipe for the Cilantro Chutney they serve. I'm sure not going to tell ~them it's not really chutney. :-0) Oh, where is Shankar when we need ~him!? Would the difference be cultural and based on available local ingredients? Both are relishes, sauces, condiments. Subcontinent relishes use tamarind, mango, etc because those are local. Central Americans use tomatoS and capsicams because they are available. And vice versa. Fusion cuisine makes them indistinguishable since it mixes everything up. Or is that too broad? maxine in ri |
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Dimitri wrote on 12 Aug 2005 in rec.food.cooking
> Based upon the above I would say any chutney and be a salsa but few > salsa's can be chutneys. The determining factor would be the > vinegar since a tomato is a fruit. > > Dimitri > > > begin 666 Outlook Express (2).lnk > Attachment saved: C:\XNEWS\attachments\Outlook Express (2).lnk > ` > end > > Dimitri....you seem to be sending or leaking stuff you might not be aware of. -- The eyes are the mirrors.... But the ears...Ah the ears. The ears keep the hat up. |
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Okay, lemme chime in here, in reply to the original question. (It was Barb
who started this, right? At least she didn't say she was making Alfredo Chutney!) Here's a quote from a really nifty book entitled _Salsas, Sambals, Chutneys & Chowchows_: "Even in their home country of India, chutneys are a varied lot. They may be either raw or cooked, and range from chunky combinations of fruit, vegetables, and spices to rather plain affairs of grated vegetables with a few other flavors. As Julie Sahni points out in her excellent cookbook _Classic Indian Vegetarian and Grain Cooking_, chutneys that contain large chunks of fruits or vegetables, like Major Grey's and most of those included here, might be considered pickles in India." So Barb, if you make a relish and CALL it a chutney, it's a chutney. :-) Bob |
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On Sat 13 Aug 2005 07:44:09a, Bob wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> Okay, lemme chime in here, in reply to the original question. (It was > Barb who started this, right? At least she didn't say she was making > Alfredo Chutney!) Here's a quote from a really nifty book entitled > _Salsas, Sambals, Chutneys & Chowchows_: > > "Even in their home country of India, chutneys are a varied lot. They > may be either raw or cooked, and range from chunky combinations of > fruit, vegetables, and spices to rather plain affairs of grated > vegetables with a few other flavors. As Julie Sahni points out in her > excellent cookbook _Classic Indian Vegetarian and Grain Cooking_, > chutneys that contain large chunks of fruits or vegetables, like Major > Grey's and most of those included here, might be considered pickles in > India." > > So Barb, if you make a relish and CALL it a chutney, it's a chutney. :-) I agree, Bob, that there is an endless variety of types of chutneys. Somehow, though, I think the Fair judges will be looking for the more typical "sweet/sour/spicy/chunky/pungent" type most commonly thought of as chutney in the US. -- Wayne Boatwright *¿* ____________________________________________ Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day. Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974 --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0532-6, 08/13/2005 Tested on: 8/13/2005 8:22:17 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
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In article >, "Bob"
> wrote: > Okay, lemme chime in here, in reply to the original question. (It was > Barb who started this, right? At least she didn't say she was making > Alfredo Chutney!) Here's a quote from a really nifty book entitled > _Salsas, Sambals, Chutneys & Chowchows_: > > "Even in their home country of India, chutneys are a varied lot. > They may be either raw or cooked, and range from chunky combinations > of fruit, vegetables, and spices to rather plain affairs of grated > vegetables with a few other flavors. As Julie Sahni points out in > her excellent cookbook _Classic Indian Vegetarian and Grain Cooking_, > chutneys that contain large chunks of fruits or vegetables, like > Major Grey's and most of those included here, might be considered > pickles in India." > > So Barb, if you make a relish and CALL it a chutney, it's a chutney. :-) > > Bob Oh, brother! I was hoping to hear from Shankar and I get you instead. "-) Thanks. So my chunky peach apricot chutney is a pickle? The Fair folks use the same scorecard criteria for pickles and relishes. See, now? Wasn't this a nice thread? No name calling, a little humor. "Can't we all just get along?" -- -Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5) |
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Barb wrote:
> See, now? Wasn't this a nice thread? No name calling, a little humor. > "Can't we all just get along?" What kinda comment was that? Are you a WOP or something???? :-) (Hey, if WOP stands for "Wildly Odd Person," maybe *I* qualify!) Bob |
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In article >, "Bob"
> wrote: > Barb wrote: > > > See, now? Wasn't this a nice thread? No name calling, a little humor. > > "Can't we all just get along?" > > What kinda comment was that? Are you a WOP or something???? :-) > > (Hey, if WOP stands for "Wildly Odd Person," maybe *I* qualify!) > > Bob Smartass. <grin> -- -Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5) |
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In article >,
Melba's Jammin' > wrote: > In article >, "Bob" > > wrote: > > > Okay, lemme chime in here, in reply to the original question. (It was > > Barb who started this, right? At least she didn't say she was making > > Alfredo Chutney!) Here's a quote from a really nifty book entitled > > _Salsas, Sambals, Chutneys & Chowchows_: > > > > "Even in their home country of India, chutneys are a varied lot. > > They may be either raw or cooked, and range from chunky combinations > > of fruit, vegetables, and spices to rather plain affairs of grated > > vegetables with a few other flavors. As Julie Sahni points out in > > her excellent cookbook _Classic Indian Vegetarian and Grain Cooking_, > > chutneys that contain large chunks of fruits or vegetables, like > > Major Grey's and most of those included here, might be considered > > pickles in India." > > > > > So Barb, if you make a relish and CALL it a chutney, it's a chutney. :-) > > > > Bob > > Oh, brother! I was hoping to hear from Shankar and I get you instead. Hey, I DID hear from Shankar. Sure do miss his wit and writing. "I am afraid that I am about to give you the usual non-responsive non-answer answer that people get from me on subjects like this. I have no idea what makes salsa salsa. However, it is my belief that many salsas would classify just fine as condiment chutneys. However, they are not South Asian dishes, so I have no opinion on how they should be classified. A pico de gallo, by the way, is completely indistinguishable from a western-Indian kachumber, which many Indians would regard as a fresh kinda-sorta condiment chutney. As to chutneys: Asking for my knowledge on the subject is not really useful, since all I have on the subject is bigotry or revealed truth, depending on one's point of view. I think the search for classification of vaguely-defined dish like a chutney is not very profitable. In general, I would say a dish is a chutney if a chutney-making community which makes it says it is a chutney. The definition needs the context. Without the context arguing about these things is pointless. Consider most things which occidentals call chutneys. Most of those are crimes against nature, as viewed from the context of this member of a chutney-making community. A well-made cranberry sauce, however, is a fine chutney, except that occidentals don't call it one. It would go fine with a few puris at the end of an Indian meal. I have made cranberry sauces as formal chutneys and my highly opinionated food-enthusiast relatives accept it as a perfectly good dessert chutney." I like his stance that a chutney is defined by a chutney-making community. -- -Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5) |
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"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
... > > Hey, I DID hear from Shankar. Sure do miss his wit and writing. > > "I am afraid that I am about to give you the usual non-responsive > non-answer answer that people get from me on subjects like this. > > I have no idea what makes salsa salsa. However, it is my belief that > many salsas would classify just fine as condiment chutneys. However, > they are not South Asian dishes, so I have no opinion on how they > should be classified. A pico de gallo, by the way, is completely > indistinguishable from a western-Indian kachumber, which many Indians > would regard as a fresh kinda-sorta condiment chutney. > > As to chutneys: > > Asking for my knowledge on the subject is not really useful, since all > I have on the subject is bigotry or revealed truth, depending on one's > point of view. > > I think the search for classification of vaguely-defined dish like a > chutney is not very profitable. In general, I would say a dish is a > chutney if a chutney-making community which makes it says it is a > chutney. The definition needs the context. Without the context arguing > about these things is pointless. > > Consider most things which occidentals call chutneys. Most of those are > crimes against nature, as viewed from the context of this member of a > chutney-making community. > > A well-made cranberry sauce, however, is a fine chutney, except that > occidentals don't call it one. It would go fine with a few puris at the > end of an Indian meal. I have made cranberry sauces as formal chutneys > and my highly opinionated food-enthusiast relatives accept it as a > perfectly good dessert chutney." > > I like his stance that a chutney is defined by a chutney-making > community. Isn't chutney defined by what you do with it? I have always defined chutney as a condiment that accompanies an Indian meal. Thus if I make raita and eat it with a curry it is a chutney, but if I eat some on its own as a snack it is not. -- Peter Aitken Visit my recipe and kitchen myths page at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm |
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