[thought I'd pass this along...]


LIFE IN THE 1500'S

The next time you are washing your hands and complain because the
water temperature isn't just how you like it, think about how
things used to be. Here are some facts about the 1500s:

These are interesting...

Most people got married in June because they took their yearly bath
in May, and still smelled pretty good by June. However, they were
starting to smell, so brides carried a bouquet of flowers to hide
the body odor. Hence the custom today of carrying a bouquet when getting
married.

Baths consisted of a big tub filled with hot water. The man of the
house had the privilege of the nice clean water, then all the
other sons and men, then the women and finally the children. Last of all
the babies. By then the water was so dirty you could actually lose
someone in it. Hence the saying, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath
water."

Houses had thatched roofs-thick straw-piled high, with no wood
underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all
the cats and other small animals (mice, bugs) lived in the roof. When
it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals would slip and fall
off the roof. Hence the saying:

"It's raining cats and dogs."

There was nothing to stop things from falling into the house. This
posed a real problem in the bedroom where bugs and other droppings
could mess up your nice clean bed. Hence, a bed with big posts and
sheet hung over the top afforded some protection. That's how canopy beds
came into existence.

The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had something other than dirt.
Hence the saying "dirt poor." The wealthy had slate floors that would
get slippery in the winter when wet , so they spread thresh (straw)
on floor to help keep their footing. As the winter wore on, they
adding more thresh until when you opened the door it would all start
slipping outside.
A piece of wood was placed in the entranceway.
Hence the saying a "thresh hold."

(Getting quite an education, aren't you?)

In those old days, they cooked in the kitchen with a big
kettle that always hung over the fire. Every day they lit the fire and
added things to the pot. They ate mostly vegetables and did not get much
meat. They would eat the stew for dinner, leaving leftovers in the
pot to get cold overnight and then start over the next day. Sometimes
stew had food in it that had been there for quite a while. Hence the rhyme,
"Peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold, peas porridge in the pot nine days
old."

Sometimes they could obtain pork, which made them feel quite
special.
When visitors came over, they would hang up their bacon to show
off. It was sign of wealth that a man could "bring home the bacon."
They would cut off a little to share with guests and would all sit
around and "chew the fat."

Those with money had plates made of pewter Food with high acid
content caused some of the lead to leach onto the food, causing lead
poisoning death. This happened most often with tomatoes, so for the next
400 years or so, tomatoes were considered poisonous.

Bread was divided according to status. Workers got the burnt bottom
of the loaf, the family got the middle, and guests got the top, or
"upper crust."

Lead cups were used to drink ale or whisky. The combination would
sometimes knock the imbibers out for a couple of days. Someone
walking along the road would take them for dead and prepare them
for burial. They were laid out on the kitchen table for a couple of days
and the family would gather around and eat and drink and wait and see if
they would wake up. Hence the custom of holding a "wake."

England is old and small and the local folks started running out of
places to bury people. So they would dig up coffins and would take
the bones to a "bone-house" and reuse the grave. When reopening these
coffins, 1 out of 25 coffins were found to have scratch marks on the
inside and they realized they had been burying people alive. So
they would tie a string on the wrist of the corpse, lead it through the
coffin and up through the ground and tie it to a bell. Someone would have to
sit out in the graveyard all night (the "graveyard shift") to listen for the
bell; thus, someone could be "saved by the bell " or was considered a "dead
ringer."

And that's the truth... Now, whoever said that History was boring!!!

</>

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 12:28:19 GMT, Gregory Morrow wrote:

> [thought I'd pass this along...]

Why? <http://www.snopes.com/language/phrases/1500.htm>

--

-Jeff B.
yeff at erols dot com

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:18:36 -0400, Yeff > wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 12:28:19 GMT, Gregory Morrow wrote:
>
>> [thought I'd pass this along...]
>
>Why? <http://www.snopes.com/language/phrases/1500.htm>

Ah hah. I *thought* this had the flavor of urban myth.

However, the BBC/PBS 'House' series makes one give enthusiastic thanks
for living in an age of detergents, electricity, indoor plumbing, and
"labor-saving" appliances.

Yeff wrote:

> On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 12:28:19 GMT, Gregory Morrow wrote:
>
> > [thought I'd pass this along...]
>
> Why? <http://www.snopes.com/language/phrases/1500.htm>


Heck, I can't get *anything* past you birds ;---)

--
Best
Greg

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 18:34:57 GMT, Gregory Morrow wrote:

> Yeff wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 12:28:19 GMT, Gregory Morrow wrote:
>>
>>> [thought I'd pass this along...]
>>
>> Why? <http://www.snopes.com/language/phrases/1500.htm>
>
>
> Heck, I can't get *anything* past you birds ;---)

Anymore, if someone passes along an email about blue skies and green grass
I head on over to Snopes to check it out. <g>

-Jeff B. (cynical skeptic (or skeptical cynic))
yeff at erols dot com

Yeff wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 12:28:19 GMT, Gregory Morrow wrote:
>
>> [thought I'd pass this along...]
>
> Why? <http://www.snopes.com/language/phrases/1500.htm>

Maybe so, but I still found it amusing

Jill

Gregory Morrow > wrote:

> Most people got married in June because they took their yearly bath
> in May, and still smelled pretty good by June. However, they were
> starting to smell, so brides carried a bouquet of flowers to hide
> the body odor. Hence the custom today of carrying a bouquet when getting
> married.

Really? If I go for a couple of days without a bath, I start to get
very aromatic! The only time I do not take a bath is when I am sick
and I know I will not be going out at all that day.

I am thankful I am alive at this time. I can lay in bed and post messages
like this with my Powerbook via my wi-fi service while I prepare for
a talk I plan to give this Saturday on computer programming on the Mac.
Life is good!

> wrote:

> Gregory Morrow > wrote:
>
> > Most people got married in June because they took their yearly bath
> > in May, and still smelled pretty good by June. However, they were
> > starting to smell, so brides carried a bouquet of flowers to hide
> > the body odor. Hence the custom today of carrying a bouquet when getting
> > married.
>
> Really? If I go for a couple of days without a bath, I start to get
> very aromatic! The only time I do not take a bath is when I am sick
> and I know I will not be going out at all that day.


A few hundred years ago (in Europe) it was considered unhealthy to
bathe...apparently it was considered some kind of un - Christian thing or
something like that....

Why do you think the French "invented" perfume...it was to mask the horrible
body odors that ensued from months of not bathing (or so I've heard)....


> I am thankful I am alive at this time. I can lay in bed and post messages
> like this with my Powerbook via my wi-fi service while I prepare for
> a talk I plan to give this Saturday on computer programming on the Mac.
> Life is good!


It is ;-) Did you know that as late as 1940 almost half of US households
did not have indoor flush toilets?

--
Best
Greg

>From: "Gregory Morrow"

>A few hundred years ago (in Europe) it was considered unhealthy to
>bathe...apparently it was considered some kind of un - Christian thing or
>something like that....

[ . . . ]

A few hundred years ago there was no central heating. Baths _were_ unhealthy
in Northern climates. Christian Byzantium had bath houses.




E. P.

"John D. Misrahi" & Greg,

: >It is ;-) Did you know that as late as 1940 almost half of US
households
: >did not have indoor flush toilets?
: >
: >--
: >Best
: >Greg
: >
: >
:
:
: My grandparents didn't have one well into the 1950's.
:
: John
:
: =====

A friend of mine from Kentucky didn't have indoor plumbing (at
all!) until the mid 70s.

--
Cyndi
<Remove a "b" to reply>

wrote:
>
> Gregory Morrow > wrote:
>
> > Most people got married in June because they took their yearly bath
> > in May, and still smelled pretty good by June. However, they were
> > starting to smell, so brides carried a bouquet of flowers to hide
> > the body odor. Hence the custom today of carrying a bouquet when getting
> > married.
>
> Really? If I go for a couple of days without a bath, I start to get
> very aromatic! The only time I do not take a bath is when I am sick
> and I know I will not be going out at all that day.
>
<snip>

People bathed far more than once a year, although lacking easily
available hot water in winter it was hardly daily. Religous festivals
often required ablutions for purification and there were a lot of those
every year. Certainly since Roman times, there were well-used public
baths in most European towns.

While nosegays/bouquets were sometimes carried to mask general odours,
they were believed to ward off disease, particularly the Plague.

Julian9EHP wrote:
>
> >From: "Gregory Morrow"
>
> >A few hundred years ago (in Europe) it was considered unhealthy to
> >bathe...apparently it was considered some kind of un - Christian thing or
> >something like that....
>
> [ . . . ]
>
> A few hundred years ago there was no central heating. Baths _were_ unhealthy
> in Northern climates. Christian Byzantium had bath houses.
>
> E. P.

So did Roman Europe and Moorish Europe.

>
>It is ;-) Did you know that as late as 1940 almost half of US households
>did not have indoor flush toilets?
>
>--
>Best
>Greg
>
>


My grandparents didn't have one well into the 1950's.

John

Gregory Morrow wrote:
>
> A few hundred years ago (in Europe) it was considered unhealthy to
> bathe...apparently it was considered some kind of un - Christian thing or
> something like that....

Supposedly a reaction against Roman cleanliness.

> Did you know that as late as 1940 almost half of US households
> did not have indoor flush toilets?

The indoor flush toilet was invented in the late 1800s. The inventor
was named Crapper, so the word crap appears to be a retrofit from his
name. He was beknighted by Queen Victoria for the invention.

I don't find it surprising that it took almost an entire lifetime
for flush toilets to be everywhere in the US.

>>t is ;-) Did you know that as late as 1940 >>almost half of US
households did not have >>indoor flush toilets?
>>--
>>Best
>>Greg
..
..
As late as 1963, most row houses on Capitol Hill, DC, did not have
indoor flush toilets. No lie.

~~~Gina~~~

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 10:33:38 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
> wrote:


> Did you know that as late as 1940 almost half of US households
>did not have indoor flush toilets?

I was around in the late 40s living in New York city and every one I
knew had indoor plumbing. I think that outdoor plumbing would be in
the more rural areas of the U.S.
Pan Ohco

Doug Freyburger wrote:


> The indoor flush toilet was invented in the late 1800s. The inventor
> was named Crapper, so the word crap appears to be a retrofit from his
> name. He was beknighted by Queen Victoria for the invention.


Snopes must be getting a lot of traffic today:

http://www.snopes.com/business/names/crapper.asp

--Lia

"Julia Altshuler" wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
>
> > The indoor flush toilet was invented in the late 1800s. The inventor
> > was named Crapper, so the word crap appears to be a retrofit from his
> > name. He was beknighted by Queen Victoria for the invention.
>
>
> Snopes must be getting a lot of traffic today:
>
> http://www.snopes.com/business/names/crapper.asp


But he was most assuredly benighted!

>>It is ;-) Did you know that as late as 1940 almost half of US households
>>did not have indoor flush toilets?
>>
>>--
>>Best
>>Greg
=============================
This brings back a funny story my mother used to tell. They lived in a very
fine home,brick, two-stories, stained glass windows here and there. (This would
have been in the early 1900's). Her father was a fine, strong, outspoken man.
When it was suggested to him that a toilet could now be installed in his home
he replied: "No one is going to s___ in MY house! "
I still laugh when I think of that.

Nancree

On 3 Jun 2004 03:39:22 GMT, arranged random neurons,
so they looked like this:

>Really? If I go for a couple of days without a bath, I start to get
>very aromatic! The only time I do not take a bath is when I am sick
>and I know I will not be going out at all that day.
>
>I am thankful I am alive at this time. I can lay in bed and post messages
>like this with my Powerbook via my wi-fi service while I prepare for
>a talk I plan to give this Saturday on computer programming on the Mac.
>Life is good!

Life would be better in SoCal if I had a NY style deli for hand carved
pastrami on rye, dammit! I am soooo envious, Stan! That was a rockin'
brunch and I hope we can do it again one of these days.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret
had been as old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had
been as full as the waitress', it would have been a very
good dinner." Duncan Hines

To reply, remove replace "spaminator" with "cox"

In article >,
says...
> On 3 Jun 2004 03:39:22 GMT, arranged random neurons,
> so they looked like this:
>
> >Really? If I go for a couple of days without a bath, I start to get
> >very aromatic! The only time I do not take a bath is when I am sick
> >and I know I will not be going out at all that day.
> >
> >I am thankful I am alive at this time. I can lay in bed and post messages
> >like this with my Powerbook via my wi-fi service while I prepare for
> >a talk I plan to give this Saturday on computer programming on the Mac.
> >Life is good!
>
> Life would be better in SoCal if I had a NY style deli for hand carved
> pastrami on rye, dammit! I am soooo envious, Stan! That was a rockin'
> brunch and I hope we can do it again one of these days.
>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
> AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

Funny that you mentioned that Terry.

I was watching Sharon Osbourne and she and her guest were talking about
how bland the food is in the LA area.

On 3 Jun 2004 03:39:22 GMT, wrote:


> If I go for a couple of days without a bath, I start to get
> very aromatic!

And that's why the French "invented" perfume.


Practice safe eating - always use condiments

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 10:33:38 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
> wrote:

> A few hundred years ago (in Europe) it was considered unhealthy to
> bathe...apparently it was considered some kind of un - Christian thing or
> something like that....

I doubt it was unchristian... but I do believe it was
inconvenient. Consider the logistics of getting the water,
heating it and then bathing in it.



Practice safe eating - always use condiments

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 15:25:23 -0500, Pan Ohco
> wrote:

> On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 10:33:38 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
> > wrote:
>
>
> > Did you know that as late as 1940 almost half of US households
> >did not have indoor flush toilets?
>
> I was around in the late 40s living in New York city and every one I
> knew had indoor plumbing.

My earliest memories are of the '50s and in those days most
people had indoor plumbing (tiolets), but a lot of them
still had remnants of outdoor toilets in the back yard.

I lived on land that was a former resort and we had a "six
holer" waaay out back. It wasn't functional at that point,
but it was interesting all the same. The "holes" were
small, medium and large on two sides... I assumed that one
side was for men and the other for women.

:-)

> I think that outdoor plumbing would be in
> the more rural areas of the U.S.

I clearly remember the plight of US coal miners (terrible)
and the fact that many people in the Ozarks didn't have
indoor plumbing at the time.


Practice safe eating - always use condiments

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:16:56 -0600, Arri London
> wrote:

>
> While nosegays/bouquets were sometimes carried to mask general odours,
> they were believed to ward off disease, particularly the Plague.

Nosegays were used to mask the odor of death during the
plague.


Practice safe eating - always use condiments

Gina wrote:

> As late as 1963, most row houses on Capitol Hill, DC, did not have
> indoor flush toilets. No lie.


Yup, I believe it. Those were virtual slums a stone's throw from the
Capitol, a disgrace to the nation. IIRC Eleanor Roosevelt back in the 30's
led a campaign to improve that area's standard of living, and getting those
row houses up to snuff was one of her stated goals....

DC back in the 19th century was a pretty putrid place - there were foetid
canals (actually open sewers) on the Mall, the place was swampy and
choleric, and the area now called "Foggy Bottom" had tanning factories, etc.
that contributed greatly to the level of filth and pollution....

--
Best
Greg

Pan Ohco wrote:

> On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 10:33:38 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
> > wrote:
>
>
> > Did you know that as late as 1940 almost half of US households
> >did not have indoor flush toilets?
>
> I was around in the late 40s living in New York city and every one I
> knew had indoor plumbing. I think that outdoor plumbing would be in
> the more rural areas of the U.S.


Yep, I'm 50 and when I was a kid most every rural abode (in downstate
Illinois) still had an outhouse. By that time everyone had indoor plumbing
and those outhouses were often stolen on Halloween and put in the middle of
a town's Main street or a school's football field and then burnt....

[The really big deal was people getting electricity in the late 30's - early
40's when the Rural Electrification Administration put electric lines in
rural areas. Towns had electricity, but many farms did not. My parents got
married in 1934 and didn't have electricity until c.1940 when the REA strung
power lines out to their farm. First things they got were a fridge and an
electric milk separator (?) thing. They already had a radio that ran off
batteries...the most expensive and desired appliance was an electric stove -
many people were still using old - fashioned wood or coal - burning
cookstoves at the time. Some folks with the money had fridges, freezers, or
stoves that ran off bottled LP gas...in fact some still do....

Folks don't realize this now, but rural US life for many in 1930 was not
greatly unchanged from rural life in 1830...think Appalachian- style
conditions, but on a greater scale...]


NYC still had plenty of tenement - style buildings in the 1940's - didn't
many of these places have shared toilet facilities?

--
Best
Greg

sf wrote:

> My earliest memories are of the '50s and in those days most
> people had indoor plumbing (tiolets), but a lot of them
> still had remnants of outdoor toilets in the back yard.
>
> I lived on land that was a former resort and we had a "six
> holer" waaay out back. It wasn't functional at that point,
> but it was interesting all the same. The "holes" were
> small, medium and large on two sides... I assumed that one
> side was for men and the other for women.


Our outhouse had been long - abandoned by that time, but I remember
especially extravagent asparagus and rhubarb patches right adjacent to it
;-)

--
Best
Greg

In article >,
wrote:


> I lived on land that was a former resort and we had a "six
> holer" waaay out back. It wasn't functional at that point,
> but it was interesting all the same. The "holes" were
> small, medium and large on two sides... I assumed that one
> side was for men and the other for women.


When I was a kid, my uncle and aunt (and two cousins) rented a cabin out
at a lake. My parents couldn't understand it, since it was only an hour's
drive. The season there was short and winters were harsh, so most cabins
had an outhouse. They had a four holer. I still don't understand that.
What good does having more than one hole do? I couldn't imagine all four
of them going down together to use it!

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 15:06:05 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
> wrote:

>
>Pan Ohco wrote:

>>
>> I was around in the late 40s living in New York city and every one I
>> knew had indoor plumbing. I think that outdoor plumbing would be in
>> the more rural areas of the U.S.
>
>
>Yep, I'm 50 and when I was a kid most every rural abode (in downstate
>Illinois) still had an outhouse. By that time everyone had indoor plumbing

>
>NYC still had plenty of tenement - style buildings in the 1940's - didn't
>many of these places have shared toilet facilities?

Greg that's where I lived, in those tenement-style buildings, and I
know of no shared facilities in the neighborhood.
Pan Ohco

> My parents got
> married in 1934 and didn't have electricity until c.1940 when the
REA strung
> power lines out to their farm. First things they got were a fridge
and an
> electric milk separator (?) thing.

Another luxury deeply appreciated by the newly electrified rural
homeowners was an electric fan on the furnace. Getting up in the
morning with some heat in the house was glorious. An electric pump on
the well was a time saver.

sf wrote:
>
> On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:16:56 -0600, Arri London
> > wrote:
>
> >
> > While nosegays/bouquets were sometimes carried to mask general odours,
> > they were believed to ward off disease, particularly the Plague.
>
> Nosegays were used to mask the odor of death during the
> plague.
>
>
They were also used to try to ward off the Plague in the first instance.
When they didn't work, they then took on the other role as well.

sf wrote:
>
> On 3 Jun 2004 03:39:22 GMT, wrote:
>
> > If I go for a couple of days without a bath, I start to get
> > very aromatic!
>
> And that's why the French "invented" perfume.
>
>

Where does this idea that the French invented perfume come from?? The
ancient Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, Persians, Indians and the Chinese all
developed and used perfumes a few thousand years ago.

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 04:42:32 GMT, Tony P.
> arranged random neurons,
so they looked like this:

>In article >,
says...

>> Life would be better in SoCal if I had a NY style deli for hand carved
>> pastrami on rye, dammit! I am soooo envious, Stan! That was a rockin'
>> brunch and I hope we can do it again one of these days.
>>
>> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>> AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA
>
>Funny that you mentioned that Terry.
>
>I was watching Sharon Osbourne and she and her guest were talking about
>how bland the food is in the LA area.

I think that's probably a gross misstatement. SoCal has some really
rockin' restaurants, ethnic cuisine and otherwise. I just have never
found a decent NY style deli. I'm in south Orange County, which is
about as White Bread Republikan as it gets. With few exceptions, PF
Chang's and Thaifoon's is considered "exotic cuisine." LA has some
outstanding restaurants, ethnic and otherwise. I get to LA fairly
regularly (LA Superior Court, Central District (federal) Court, etc.)
and even in the Spring St. and Hill St. environs, you can find some
interesting restaurants.

OTOH, the DH and I love to ride our motorcycles down Pacific Coast
Highway to the San Clemente pier for king crab legs and oysters on the
half shell, which are fresh, fresh, fresh - not exotic cuisine, but,
damn is it good!

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

"Regime Change Begins at Home"

To reply, remove replace "spaminator" with "cox"

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 10:29:00 -0700, (Dan
Abel) wrote:

> In article >,
> wrote:
>
>
> > I lived on land that was a former resort and we had a "six
> > holer" waaay out back. It wasn't functional at that point,
> > but it was interesting all the same. The "holes" were
> > small, medium and large on two sides... I assumed that one
> > side was for men and the other for women.
>
>
> When I was a kid, my uncle and aunt (and two cousins) rented a cabin out
> at a lake. My parents couldn't understand it, since it was only an hour's
> drive. The season there was short and winters were harsh, so most cabins
> had an outhouse. They had a four holer. I still don't understand that.
> What good does having more than one hole do?

You don't remember the holes being different sizes? The
smallest holes in mine were definately for kids. I doubt
anyone wanted their kids to fall into the pit!

> I couldn't imagine all four
> of them going down together to use it!

Frankly, they probably did do their business at the same
time (and the Sears catalog was put to more use than just
for reading).


Practice safe eating - always use condiments

I just love the original post and from my reading of history it is
pretty accurate.

I can add a couple more things however:

In Elizabethan times (and probably later also) the lack of personal
bathing - and consequent body odours - meant that many women of the
upper classes and aristocracy used pomaders (these were oranges that
were studded with cloves) and worn on a ribbon at the waist) as a sort
of body perfume. What these people did to clean their teeth can only
be imagined!

In my mother's time (and she is still alive at 97 years) meat was
eaten only once or twice a week - once usually. She tells me that
the origin of Roast Beef and Yorkshore Pudding was that the man of the
house (i.e. the breadwinner) had the first serving of meat and gravy
and then the rest of the family made do with the remnants of the meat,
which were meagre, which was padded out with Yorkshire pudding and
lots of gravy.

My mother says this was usually a Sunday midday meal - and I have to
say that to this day I still cook her Yorkshire Pudding with my roast
beef - and a really good pudding it is. I make lots of natural beef
roast gravy and my youngest grandchildren have now taken to asking for
seconds! So it may not die - who knows?




Daisy

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:31:46 -0600, Arri London
> wrote:

>
>
> sf wrote:
> >
> > On 3 Jun 2004 03:39:22 GMT, wrote:
> >
> > > If I go for a couple of days without a bath, I start to get
> > > very aromatic!
> >
> > And that's why the French "invented" perfume.
> >
> >
>
> Where does this idea that the French invented perfume come from?? The
> ancient Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, Persians, Indians and the Chinese all
> developed and used perfumes a few thousand years ago.

Don't get your knickers in a twist over this.

Nothing is important to us until we decide it's important
and perfume wasn't fashionable in Western Europe until the
French popularized it. They invented new scents, so it's
usually shortened to "invented" which isn't a problem for
me. Channel is French, not Chinese or Egyptian.





Practice safe eating - always use condiments

Let's face it,back then it was a 'rotten' society,the kids truly
smelled like they were 'spoiled' .

I just love the original post and from my reading of history it is
pretty accurate.

I can add a couple more things however:

In Elizabethan times (and probably later also) the lack of personal
bathing - and consequent body odours - meant that many women of the
upper classes and aristocracy used pomaders (these were oranges that
were studded with cloves) and worn on a ribbon at the waist) as a sort
of body perfume. What these people did to clean their teeth can only
be imagined!

In my mother's time (and she is still alive at 97 years) meat was
eaten only once or twice a week - once usually. She tells me that
the origin of Roast Beef and Yorkshore Pudding was that the man of the
house (i.e. the breadwinner) had the first serving of meat and gravy
and then the rest of the family made do with the remnants of the meat,
which were meagre, which was padded out with Yorkshire pudding and
lots of gravy.

My mother says this was usually a Sunday midday meal - and I have to
say that to this day I still cook her Yorkshire Pudding with my roast
beef - and a really good pudding it is. I make lots of natural beef
roast gravy and my youngest grandchildren have now taken to asking for
seconds! So it may not die - who knows?




Daisy

"Gregory Morrow" > wrote in message hlink.net>...
> Gina wrote:
>
> > As late as 1963, most row houses on Capitol Hill, DC, did not have
> > indoor flush toilets. No lie.
>
>
> Yup, I believe it. Those were virtual slums a stone's throw from the
> Capitol, a disgrace to the nation. IIRC Eleanor Roosevelt back in the 30's
> led a campaign to improve that area's standard of living, and getting those
> row houses up to snuff was one of her stated goals....
>
> DC back in the 19th century was a pretty putrid place - there were foetid
> canals (actually open sewers) on the Mall, the place was swampy and
> choleric, and the area now called "Foggy Bottom" had tanning factories, etc.
> that contributed greatly to the level of filth and pollution....

When my son was still in Elementary School, I had to drop something
off at the principal's office (field trip slip?). I remember seeing a
map on the wall. It was a copy of a map, date somewhere around 1885,
that was given to new members of Congress, the Cabinet and Diplomats.
The map detailed where the various swamps, quicksand pits, and
misquito infestations were located around DC. It also indicated areas
prone to typhoid,consumption,cholera and the various criminal
elements. I could never find a copy of it, but I'd love to get my
hands on one if I could. What a great conversation piece.

Cheers

Cheers.