Gabby wrote:
> "rosie" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> airlift people north ??? Are you kidding ? They can go north under
>> their own steam, there has been plenty of warning.
>>
>> Gasoline prices will no doubt be impacted, this is only one of many
>> thing driving the price of oil.
>>
>> I do hope all have gone to higher ground .
>
> Officials say there are tens of thousands who have no way of
> evacuating the area.
>
> Gabby

No way? What, they don't know anyone with a car? Or does this mean they
are being stubborn, as in the wake of the 1980's Mt. St. Helens eruption, "I
won't leave, they can't make me".

Still no reason to start bashing politicos; want to bash someone, bash your
version of "god" for the hurricane. Politics have nothing to do with it.

Jill

jmcquown wrote:

> No way? What, they don't know anyone with a car? Or does this mean they
> are being stubborn, as in the wake of the 1980's Mt. St. Helens eruption, "I
> won't leave, they can't make me".

This afternoon Shepard Smith from Fox TV was trying to do an interview
in a bar on Bourbon St. He asked one guy why he hadn't left yet and
his response was "None of your ****ing business". Right on live TV.
I'd say there's some attitude there, definitely.

> Still no reason to start bashing politicos; want to bash someone, bash your
> version of "god" for the hurricane. Politics have nothing to do with it.

I completely agree.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

> jmcquown wrote:
>
>> No way? What, they don't know anyone with a car?

There are many people in the cities that do not own a car, know people that
own a car that would have enough room to take them all. Many are the poor,
but there are many well to do people in large cities that rely on public
transportation.

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 03:23:39 GMT, Edwin Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>>> No way? What, they don't know anyone with a car?
>
> There are many people in the cities that do not own a car, know people that
> own a car that would have enough room to take them all. Many are the poor,
> but there are many well to do people in large cities that rely on public
> transportation.

And New Orleans has a significant homeless population. Chances are
that no, they don't have a car, and they may not know anyone who does. Maybe
they'd like to evacuate, but they have have limited resources to do so.

We have people we know in the area, and hope they are safe, regardless
of whether or not they decide to leave or stay.

Ariane

"Ariane Jenkins" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 03:23:39 GMT, Edwin Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>>> No way? What, they don't know anyone with a car?
>>
>> There are many people in the cities that do not own a car, know people
>> that
>> own a car that would have enough room to take them all. Many are the
>> poor,
>> but there are many well to do people in large cities that rely on public
>> transportation.
>
> And New Orleans has a significant homeless population. Chances are
> that no, they don't have a car, and they may not know anyone who does.
> Maybe
> they'd like to evacuate, but they have have limited resources to do so.
>
> We have people we know in the area, and hope they are safe,
> regardless
> of whether or not they decide to leave or stay.
>
> Ariane
>
Just read this:
New Orleans Emptied under mandatory evacuation as Hurricane Katrina,
much-strengthened over water, bore down. Those unable to get out packed into
the Superdome. 11:19 p.m.
Dee Dee

Dee Randall wrote:
> "Ariane Jenkins" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 03:23:39 GMT, Edwin Pawlowski >
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No way? What, they don't know anyone with a car?
>>>
>>> There are many people in the cities that do not own a car, know
>>> people that
>>> own a car that would have enough room to take them all. Many are
>>> the poor,
>>> but there are many well to do people in large cities that rely on
>>> public transportation.
>>
>> And New Orleans has a significant homeless population. Chances are
>> that no, they don't have a car, and they may not know
>> anyone who does. Maybe
>> they'd like to evacuate, but they have have limited resources to do
>> so. We have people we know in the area, and hope they are safe,
>> regardless
>> of whether or not they decide to leave or stay.
>>
>> Ariane
>>
> Just read this:
> New Orleans Emptied under mandatory evacuation as Hurricane Katrina,
> much-strengthened over water, bore down. Those unable to get out
> packed into the Superdome. 11:19 p.m.
> Dee Dee

Being six feet below sea level doesn't bode well for the 'big easy'.
If they (the authorities) have their collective 'scat' together they should
be opening the flood gates on the dikes now.
I wish them luck!

Ken.

"Ken Davey" > wrote in message
...
>
> Being six feet below sea level doesn't bode well for the 'big easy'.
> If they (the authorities) have their collective 'scat' together they
> should be opening the flood gates on the dikes now.
> I wish them luck!

NOLA has pumps that move water into Lake Pontchartrain during periods of
heavy rain. If the lake empties into the city, the pumps will be
underwater, and it's estimated that it will take about six months to
drain the city...

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> > jmcquown wrote:
> >
> >> No way? What, they don't know anyone with a car?
>
> There are many people in the cities that do not own a car, know people that
> own a car that would have enough room to take them all. Many are the poor,
> but there are many well to do people in large cities that rely on public
> transportation.

Yup, the majority of NYC residents do not own a car... first they'd
have nowhere to put it (they'd put it in their bedroom, but how, cars
don't fit well in elevators), and second if everyone who resides in NYC
had a car there'd be nowhere for all the people. There are a lot of
folks who live in major US cities who don't own a car.

Sheldon

Sheldon wrote:

> Yup, the majority of NYC residents do not own a car... first they'd
> have nowhere to put it (they'd put it in their bedroom, but how, cars
> don't fit well in elevators), and second if everyone who resides in NYC
> had a car there'd be nowhere for all the people. There are a lot of
> folks who live in major US cities who don't own a car.


Yup, myself and many of my friends in Chicawgo don't have cars, some of us
don't even have drivers licenses anymore. When the evacuation of New
Orleans was announced, I wondered, "What would many of us here do in such a
situation?". I guess we'd pray there was evacuation by bus or something...

Plus which with the cost of insurance, parking, gas, etc.the monthly cost of
having a car in Chicago, etc. can be about as much one's rent or mortgage...

--
Best
Greg

Gregory Morrow wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
>
> > Yup, the majority of NYC residents do not own a car... first they'd
> > have nowhere to put it (they'd put it in their bedroom, but how, cars
> > don't fit well in elevators), and second if everyone who resides in NYC
> > had a car there'd be nowhere for all the people. There are a lot of
> > folks who live in major US cities who don't own a car.
>
>
> Yup, myself and many of my friends in Chicawgo don't have cars, some of us
> don't even have drivers licenses anymore. When the evacuation of New
> Orleans was announced, I wondered, "What would many of us here do in such a
> situation?". I guess we'd pray there was evacuation by bus or something...
>
> Plus which with the cost of insurance, parking, gas, etc.the monthly cost of
> having a car in Chicago, etc. can be about as much one's rent or mortgage...

If not for the very few times I need a car (no mass transit here, not
even taxis) I'd give up maintaining an automobile... I drove slightly
less than 1,000 miles (maybe 25 hours) since last Sept.... I've far
more hours behind the wheel of my tractor (220 hours).

Sheldon

Sheldon wrote:
> Gregory Morrow wrote:
> > > Yup, the majority of NYC residents do not own a car... first they'd
> > > have nowhere to put it (they'd put it in their bedroom, but how, cars
> > > don't fit well in elevators), and second if everyone who resides in
NYC
> > > had a car there'd be nowhere for all the people. There are a lot of
> > > folks who live in major US cities who don't own a car.

Nowadays, Sheldon, there isn't enough room in the average NYC bedroom for
even the smallest car (Been there lately?)


Gregory continues:
> > Yup, myself and many of my friends in Chicawgo don't have cars, some of
us
> > don't even have drivers licenses anymore. When the evacuation of New
> > Orleans was announced, I wondered, "What would many of us here do in
such a
> > situation?". I guess we'd pray there was evacuation by bus or
something...
> >
> > Plus which with the cost of insurance, parking, gas, etc.the monthly
cost of
> > having a car in Chicago, etc. can be about as much one's rent or
mortgage...
>
> If not for the very few times I need a car (no mass transit here, not
> even taxis) I'd give up maintaining an automobile... I drove slightly
> less than 1,000 miles (maybe 25 hours) since last Sept.... I've far
> more hours behind the wheel of my tractor (220 hours).

I have a very good job, a wonderful job. Every day, I drive 40 miles round
trip to work at my really great job. Last week, the price of gas reached the
point where I nearly couldn't afford to work there anymore.

This morning, the price of gas here went through the roof. It's official
now: I can't afford to drive back and forth to work.

Is this really what "W" had in mind when he and his oily cronies invented
this "Katrina-caused" oil emergency? What a crock of shit!

In one breath they tell us that gas is so high because the bulk of our oil
comes from overseas. In the next breath, they tell us that the price will
skyrocket because the storm in the Gulf has halted the production of the
bulk of our oil. How stupid do they think we are? Worse, how stupid are we
actually?

Jill wrote:

> Still no reason to start bashing politicos; want to bash someone, bash
> your version of "god" for the hurricane. Politics have nothing to do
> with it.

If the risk is known and the politicians don't take adequate measures to
alleviate the damage, SHOULDN'T they be blamed? Here, read this:

http://americanradioworks.publicradi...urricane1.html

Bob

Bob wrote:

> If the risk is known and the politicians don't take adequate measures to
> alleviate the damage, SHOULDN'T they be blamed? Here, read this:
>
> http://americanradioworks.publicradi...urricane1.html

Nothing in the above supports your accusations in any way.

How did anyone fail to "take adequate measures"? It's been studied
to death (funded by the federal government, I might add), and it's
been a known threat for some time. Short of moving people out permanently,
what did you expect them to do?

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

"Bob" > wrote:

>Jill wrote:
>
>> Still no reason to start bashing politicos; want to bash someone, bash
>> your version of "god" for the hurricane. Politics have nothing to do
>> with it.
>
>If the risk is known and the politicians don't take adequate measures to
>alleviate the damage, SHOULDN'T they be blamed? Here, read this:
>
>http://americanradioworks.publicradi...urricane1.html


Aaand theres nothing there to support your contention that politicians
haven't taken adequate measures.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

"jmcquown" > said:

> No way? What, they don't know anyone with a car? Or does this mean they
> are being stubborn, as in the wake of the 1980's Mt. St. Helens eruption, "I
> won't leave, they can't make me".

I would guess that the people with cars have crammed said cars with as many
of their valuables as possible, and don't have room for helping the
have-nots of society.

I'd also suspect that a lot of the have-nots would have moved away many
years ago if they could afford to do so (you know someone right now who is
in that position).

The poor will most likely represent the largest loss of life, and I don't
believe that, for most of them, they had many options.

Carol
--
http://tinyurl.com/9hjxt

There are shelters that have been set up, including the Super Dome,
which as I understand has a few leaks. Cities that have the money to
build these huge places for games, hopefully have ways to protect those
who cannot help them selves. Personally, I do not feel it is the
governments place to take care of us.

The poor are usually the ones who suffer the most, but there are some
options. I would guess that everything that can be done, has been. The
area has been declared a disaster zone, and ASAP the Red Cross and
other agencies will be there doing their best.

Rosie

rosie wrote:
> There are shelters that have been set up, including the Super Dome,
> which as I understand has a few leaks. Cities that have the money to
> build these huge places for games, hopefully have ways to protect those
> who cannot help them selves. Personally, I do not feel it is the
> governments place to take care of us.
>
> The poor are usually the ones who suffer the most, but there are some
> options. I would guess that everything that can be done, has been. The
> area has been declared a disaster zone, and ASAP the Red Cross and
> other agencies will be there doing their best.
>
> Rosie
>

Predicted NY Times Headline "Earth Struck by Asteroid. Minorities and
Poor most Affected."

--
Del Cecchi
"This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions,
strategies or opinions.”

There are shelters that have been set up, including the Super Dome,
which as I understand has a few leaks. Cities that have the money to
build these huge places for games, hopefully have ways to protect those
who cannot help them selves. Personally, I do not feel it is the
governments place to take care of us.

The poor are usually the ones who suffer the most, but there are some
options. I would guess that everything that can be done, has been. The
area has been declared a disaster zone, and ASAP the Red Cross and
other agencies will be there doing their best.

Rosie

rosie wrote:

> There are shelters that have been set up, including the Super Dome,
> which as I understand has a few leaks. Cities that have the money to
> build these huge places for games, hopefully have ways to protect those
> who cannot help them selves. Personally, I do not feel it is the
> governments place to take care of us.


The government obviously thinks differently, Rosie:

http://www.fema.gov/

FEMA History

"Helping People Before, During, And After Disasters"

[excerpts]

The Federal Emergency Management Agency - a former independent agency that
became part of the new Department of Homeland Security in March 2003 - is
tasked with responding to, planning for, recovering from and mitigating
against disasters. FEMA can trace its beginnings to the Congressional Act of
1803. This act, generally considered the first piece of disaster
legislation, provided assistance to a New Hampshire town following an
extensive fire. In the century that followed, ad hoc legislation was passed
more than 100 times in response to hurricanes, earthquakes, floods and other
natural disasters.

By the 1930s, when the federal approach to problems became popular, the
Reconstruction Finance Corporation was given authority to make disaster
loans for repair and reconstruction of certain public facilities following
an earthquake, and later, other types of disasters. In 1934, the Bureau of
Public Roads was given authority to provide funding for highways and bridges
damaged by natural disasters. The Flood Control Act, which gave the U.S.
Army Corps of Engineers greater authority to implement flood control
projects, was also passed. This piecemeal approach to disaster assistance
was problematic and it prompted legislation that required greater
cooperation between federal agencies and authorized the President to
coordinate these activities.

The 1960s and early 1970s brought massive disasters requiring major federal
response and recovery operations by the Federal Disaster Assistance
Administration, established within the Department of Housing and Urban
Development (HUD). Hurricane Carla struck in 1962, Hurricane Betsy in 1965,
Hurricane Camille in 1969 and Hurricane Agnes in 1972. The Alaskan
Earthquake hit in 1964 and the San Fernando Earthquake rocked Southern
California in 1971. These events served to focus attention on the issue of
natural disasters and brought about increased legislation. In 1968, the
National Flood Insurance Act offered new flood protection to homeowners, and
in 1974 the Disaster Relief Act firmly established the process of
Presidential disaster declarations

President Carter's 1979 executive order merged many of the separate
disaster-related responsibilities into a new Federal Emergency Management
Agency (FEMA). Among other agencies, FEMA absorbed: the Federal Insurance
Administration, the National Fire Prevention and Control Administration, the
National Weather Service Community Preparedness Program, the Federal
Preparedness Agency of the General Services Administration and the Federal
Disaster Assistance Administration activities from HUD. Civil defense
responsibilities were also transferred to the new agency from the Defense
Department's Defense Civil Preparedness Agency

The new agency was faced with many unusual challenges in its first few years
that emphasized how complex emergency management can be. Early disasters and
emergencies included the contamination of Love Canal, the Cuban refugee
crisis and the accident at the Three Mile Island nuclear power plant. Later,
the Loma Prieta Earthquake in 1989 and Hurricane Andrew in 1992 focused
major national attention on FEMA. In 1993, President Clinton nominated James
L. Witt as the new FEMA director. Witt became the first agency director with
experience as a state emergency manager. He initiated sweeping reforms that
streamlined disaster relief and recovery operations, insisted on a new
emphasis regarding preparedness and mitigation, and focused agency employees
on customer service. The end of the Cold War also allowed Witt to redirect
more of FEMA's limited resources from civil defense into disaster relief,
recovery and mitigation programs"

jmcquown wrote:
> Gabby wrote:
> > "rosie" > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> >> airlift people north ??? Are you kidding ? They can go north under
> >> their own steam, there has been plenty of warning.
> >>
> >> Gasoline prices will no doubt be impacted, this is only one of many
> >> thing driving the price of oil.
> >>
> >> I do hope all have gone to higher ground .
> >
> > Officials say there are tens of thousands who have no way of
> > evacuating the area.
> >
> > Gabby
>
> No way? What, they don't know anyone with a car? Or does this mean they
> are being stubborn, as in the wake of the 1980's Mt. St. Helens eruption, "I
> won't leave, they can't make me".

No Jill, it means many are poor and/or homeless urban inner-city
dwellers who don't have cars or don't know people with cars. They are
the elderly who don't drive and who don't have family members in the
area who drive. They are the people with no choice but to stay. Your
empathy, compassion, and respect for the elderly and poor who cannot
evacuate on their own is overwhelming.

Anyone else - like the tourists who think it's cool to stay - are fools
who made the choice to commit suicide by hurricane. Because many
Americans own cell phones, cars, have toilets, have electronics, they
assume everyone in the world, including some of their fellow Americans,
own the same. Too bad it isn't true.

Sandi

On Mon 29 Aug 2005 05:02:40a, Sandi wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> No Jill, it means many are poor and/or homeless urban inner-city
> dwellers who don't have cars or don't know people with cars. They are
> the elderly who don't drive and who don't have family members in the
> area who drive. They are the people with no choice but to stay. Your
> empathy, compassion, and respect for the elderly and poor who cannot
> evacuate on their own is overwhelming.
>
> Anyone else - like the tourists who think it's cool to stay - are fools
> who made the choice to commit suicide by hurricane. Because many
> Americans own cell phones, cars, have toilets, have electronics, they
> assume everyone in the world, including some of their fellow Americans,
> own the same. Too bad it isn't true.

Sandi, while all of those conditions exist and there are people in that
predicament, there is also an element who want to "brave it out" and an
element who want to have hurricane "parties". Examples of that are
reported during/after every major hurricane. I feel very sorry for those
who, for whatever reason, cannot leave, but I don't give a damn about those
who are too stupid to leave.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

On 29 Aug 2005 14:25:59 +0200, Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> Sandi, while all of those conditions exist and there are people in that
> predicament, there is also an element who want to "brave it out" and an
> element who want to have hurricane "parties". Examples of that are
> reported during/after every major hurricane. I feel very sorry for those
> who, for whatever reason, cannot leave, but I don't give a damn about those
> who are too stupid to leave.
>


Erik and I were fortunate enough to visit New Orleans last year, it's
a lovely city and (of course!) it has fantastic food. A lovely lady who ran a
B&B and several other properties there was a gracious host, and couldn't have
been more friendly. Unlike many in NOLA, she does have a car and the
resources to leave... but if she had stranded guests, I'm sure she would not
want to leave them behind, and she doesn't have a vehicle that can transport
that many and their belongings. Erik also has distant relations who live
in the area who are older, and may or may not have their own transportation
or the good health to make possible an evacuation. As of yet, we have no
news.


I don't really have a problem with when people have less empathy for
people who could leave but don't, for the reasons you stated above. The
problem occurs when people imply that those are the ONLY reasons why people
wouldn't leave New Orleans. That assumption is just plain ignorant and could
be easily avoided by thinking before one speaks. You would not dream of doing
such a thing, I know, but others don't always offer the same courtesy.

Ariane
--
Incompetence: When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of
skill by doubling your efforts, there's no end to what you can't do.
http://www.despair.com/demotivators/incompetence.html

Ariane Jenkins > said:

> Erik and I were fortunate enough to visit New Orleans last year, it's
> a lovely city and (of course!) it has fantastic food. A lovely lady who ran a
> B&B and several other properties there was a gracious host, and couldn't have
> been more friendly. Unlike many in NOLA, she does have a car and the
> resources to leave... but if she had stranded guests, I'm sure she would not
> want to leave them behind, and she doesn't have a vehicle that can transport
> that many and their belongings. Erik also has distant relations who live
> in the area who are older, and may or may not have their own transportation
> or the good health to make possible an evacuation. As of yet, we have no
> news.

Our prayers are with them all, Ariane. This is just terrible.

We just saw on the news that they're projecting that the storm will pass
through western Tennessee and the Ohio River Valley. I have no idea if
you're in that part of Ohio, but if you are, I hope it's basically reduced
to heavy rains when it reaches you.

Hang in there - everyone who's affected.

Carol
--
http://tinyurl.com/9hjxt

Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
> Ariane Jenkins > said:
>
>> Erik and I were fortunate enough to visit New Orleans last year, it's
>> a lovely city and (of course!) it has fantastic food. A lovely lady
>> who ran a B&B and several other properties there was a gracious
>> host, and couldn't have been more friendly. Unlike many in NOLA,
>> she does have a car and the resources to leave... but if she had
>> stranded guests, I'm sure she would not want to leave them behind,
>> and she doesn't have a vehicle that can transport that many and
>> their belongings. Erik also has distant relations who live
>> in the area who are older, and may or may not have their own
>> transportation or the good health to make possible an evacuation.
>> As of yet, we have no news.
>
> Our prayers are with them all, Ariane. This is just terrible.
>
> We just saw on the news that they're projecting that the storm will
> pass through western Tennessee and the Ohio River Valley. I have no
> idea if
> you're in that part of Ohio, but if you are, I hope it's basically
> reduced
> to heavy rains when it reaches you.
>
> Hang in there - everyone who's affected.
>
> Carol

We're just getting mild rain here in west TN so far. The predicted high
winds haven't come this way yet; might take a day. I heard on the radio
this morning some of the casinos in Tunica, MS have set up emergency
shelters in their ballrooms. Bally's and The Grand Hotel were mentioned.
The Red Cross is there to help FEMA with what is needed to get people
temporarily housed, start the damage claim filing process, etc., although of
course no one knows yet what the damage will be.

OB Food: Squash again. It's a good thing I love squash.

Jill

"jmcquown" > said:

> We're just getting mild rain here in west TN so far. The predicted high
> winds haven't come this way yet; might take a day. I heard on the radio
> this morning some of the casinos in Tunica, MS have set up emergency
> shelters in their ballrooms. Bally's and The Grand Hotel were mentioned.
> The Red Cross is there to help FEMA with what is needed to get people
> temporarily housed, start the damage claim filing process, etc., although of
> course no one knows yet what the damage will be.

It's good to see communities pulling together like this. Thanks for
letting us know what's going on in Tennessee!

Carol
--
http://tinyurl.com/9hjxt

"jmcquown" > wrote

> We're just getting mild rain here in west TN so far. The predicted high
> winds haven't come this way yet; might take a day. I heard on the radio
> this morning some of the casinos in Tunica, MS have set up emergency
> shelters in their ballrooms. Bally's and The Grand Hotel were mentioned.
> The Red Cross is there to help FEMA with what is needed to get people
> temporarily housed, start the damage claim filing process, etc., although
> of
> course no one knows yet what the damage will be.

Of course, all of this was covered who knows how long ago by
the disaster planning people. I know it was a pain in the neck just
at work planning for a disaster, unfortunately sometimes it comes
to pass.

(laugh) Somehow I'm suddenly reminded of hiding under my school
desk in case of enemy airplanes from Russia attacking.

nancy

On Mon 29 Aug 2005 10:03:23a, Ariane Jenkins wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Erik and I were fortunate enough to visit New Orleans last year, it's
> a lovely city and (of course!) it has fantastic food. A lovely lady who
> ran a B&B and several other properties there was a gracious host, and
> couldn't have been more friendly. Unlike many in NOLA, she does have a
> car and the resources to leave... but if she had stranded guests, I'm
> sure she would not want to leave them behind, and she doesn't have a
> vehicle that can transport that many and their belongings. Erik also
> has distant relations who live in the area who are older, and may or may
> not have their own transportation or the good health to make possible an
> evacuation. As of yet, we have no news.
>
>
> I don't really have a problem with when people have less empathy
> for
> people who could leave but don't, for the reasons you stated above. The
> problem occurs when people imply that those are the ONLY reasons why
> people wouldn't leave New Orleans. That assumption is just plain
> ignorant and could be easily avoided by thinking before one speaks. You
> would not dream of doing such a thing, I know, but others don't always
> offer the same courtesy.
>
> Ariane
>

Yes, I agree with you Ariane.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

Ariane Jenkins wrote:
> On 29 Aug 2005 14:25:59 +0200, Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
> > Sandi, while all of those conditions exist and there are people in that
> > predicament, there is also an element who want to "brave it out" and an
> > element who want to have hurricane "parties". Examples of that are
> > reported during/after every major hurricane. I feel very sorry for those
> > who, for whatever reason, cannot leave, but I don't give a damn about those
> > who are too stupid to leave.

>
> I don't really have a problem with when people have less empathy for
> people who could leave but don't, for the reasons you stated above. The
> problem occurs when people imply that those are the ONLY reasons why people
> wouldn't leave New Orleans. That assumption is just plain ignorant and could
> be easily avoided by thinking before one speaks. You would not dream of doing
> such a thing, I know, but others don't always offer the same courtesy.
>

I have no emptathy for fools who commit suicide by hurricane....that
was my second paragraph which it seems people didn't bother to read.

Sandi

On 29 Aug 2005 16:12:48 -0700, Sandi > wrote:
>
> I have no emptathy for fools who commit suicide by hurricane....that
> was my second paragraph which it seems people didn't bother to read.

Don't sweat it, Sandi... I had no problems comprehending your post and
had no quarrel with it.

Ariane

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Mon 29 Aug 2005 05:02:40a, Sandi wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
> > No Jill, it means many are poor and/or homeless urban inner-city
> > dwellers who don't have cars or don't know people with cars. They are
> > the elderly who don't drive and who don't have family members in the
> > area who drive. They are the people with no choice but to stay. Your
> > empathy, compassion, and respect for the elderly and poor who cannot
> > evacuate on their own is overwhelming.
> >
> > Anyone else - like the tourists who think it's cool to stay - are fools
> > who made the choice to commit suicide by hurricane. Because many
> > Americans own cell phones, cars, have toilets, have electronics, they
> > assume everyone in the world, including some of their fellow Americans,
> > own the same. Too bad it isn't true.
>
> Sandi, while all of those conditions exist and there are people in that
> predicament, there is also an element who want to "brave it out" and an
> element who want to have hurricane "parties". Examples of that are
> reported during/after every major hurricane. I feel very sorry for those
> who, for whatever reason, cannot leave, but I don't give a damn about those
> who are too stupid to leave.

Ummm.....isn't that exactly what the SECOND paragraph says? Those who
chose to stay because they think it is cool are fools - committing
suicide by hurrican I think is the phrase I used.

I lived in FL for 15 years and I've spent my share of time in hurricane
shelters including a fun filled time in a shelter with a Bosnaian
family, a Serbian family and a Herzogovinian family all in the same
place. We had deputy sheriff to prevent Kosovo 2 from occuring. We
also had an Alzheimers patient who wandered out in the peak of the
storm when his daughter fell asleep from exhaustion. All of us able
bodied were pressed into service to go out and search for him during
the storm. I'm real aware of storms and the problems that are incurred
by those who cannot evacuate - like special needs people. My mother was
a special needs case and I needed to go to the shelter with her since
she was a recent amputee.

Sandi

Sandi

"Sandi" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> jmcquown wrote:
>> Gabby wrote:
>> > "rosie" > wrote in message
>> > ups.com...
>> >> airlift people north ??? Are you kidding ? They can go north under
>> >> their own steam, there has been plenty of warning.
>> >>
>> >> Gasoline prices will no doubt be impacted, this is only one of many
>> >> thing driving the price of oil.
>> >>
>> >> I do hope all have gone to higher ground .
>> >
>> > Officials say there are tens of thousands who have no way of
>> > evacuating the area.
>> >
>> > Gabby
>>
>> No way? What, they don't know anyone with a car? Or does this mean they
>> are being stubborn, as in the wake of the 1980's Mt. St. Helens eruption,
>> "I
>> won't leave, they can't make me".
>
> No Jill, it means many are poor and/or homeless urban inner-city
> dwellers who don't have cars or don't know people with cars. They are
> the elderly who don't drive and who don't have family members in the
> area who drive. They are the people with no choice but to stay. Your
> empathy, compassion, and respect for the elderly and poor who cannot
> evacuate on their own is overwhelming.
>
> Anyone else - like the tourists who think it's cool to stay - are fools
> who made the choice to commit suicide by hurricane. Because many
> Americans own cell phones, cars, have toilets, have electronics, they
> assume everyone in the world, including some of their fellow Americans,
> own the same. Too bad it isn't true.
>
> Sandi

Americans do NOT assume that that everyone in the world, including some of
their fellow Americans, own cells phones, cars, have toilets, have
electronics....
Dee Dee


Dee Dee

Dee Randall wrote:
> "Sandi" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>jmcquown wrote:
>>
>>>Gabby wrote:
>>>
>>>>"rosie" > wrote in message
egroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>>airlift people north ??? Are you kidding ? They can go north under
>>>>>their own steam, there has been plenty of warning.
>>>>>
>>>>>Gasoline prices will no doubt be impacted, this is only one of many
>>>>>thing driving the price of oil.
>>>>>
>>>>>I do hope all have gone to higher ground .
>>>>
>>>>Officials say there are tens of thousands who have no way of
>>>>evacuating the area.
>>>>
>>>>Gabby
>>>
>>>No way? What, they don't know anyone with a car? Or does this mean they
>>>are being stubborn, as in the wake of the 1980's Mt. St. Helens eruption,
>>>"I
>>>won't leave, they can't make me".
>>
>>No Jill, it means many are poor and/or homeless urban inner-city
>>dwellers who don't have cars or don't know people with cars. They are
>>the elderly who don't drive and who don't have family members in the
>>area who drive. They are the people with no choice but to stay. Your
>>empathy, compassion, and respect for the elderly and poor who cannot
>>evacuate on their own is overwhelming.
>>
>>Anyone else - like the tourists who think it's cool to stay - are fools
>>who made the choice to commit suicide by hurricane. Because many
>>Americans own cell phones, cars, have toilets, have electronics, they
>>assume everyone in the world, including some of their fellow Americans,
>>own the same. Too bad it isn't true.
>>
>>Sandi
>
>
> Americans do NOT assume that that everyone in the world, including some of
> their fellow Americans, own cells phones, cars, have toilets, have
> electronics....
> Dee Dee
>
>
> Dee Dee
>
>

Unfortunately, you are wrong. I've heard people say: "Give me your cell
number, . . ," assuming the other person has a cell. Likewise for e-mail
addy and so on. We ALL make assumptions sometime.


jim

"JimLane" > wrote in message
...
> Dee Randall wrote:
>> "Sandi" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>
>>>jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>>>Gabby wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"rosie" > wrote in message
legroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>>airlift people north ??? Are you kidding ? They can go north under
>>>>>>their own steam, there has been plenty of warning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gasoline prices will no doubt be impacted, this is only one of many
>>>>>>thing driving the price of oil.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I do hope all have gone to higher ground .
>>>>>
>>>>>Officials say there are tens of thousands who have no way of
>>>>>evacuating the area.
>>>>>
>>>>>Gabby
>>>>
>>>>No way? What, they don't know anyone with a car? Or does this mean
>>>>they
>>>>are being stubborn, as in the wake of the 1980's Mt. St. Helens
>>>>eruption, "I
>>>>won't leave, they can't make me".
>>>
>>>No Jill, it means many are poor and/or homeless urban inner-city
>>>dwellers who don't have cars or don't know people with cars. They are
>>>the elderly who don't drive and who don't have family members in the
>>>area who drive. They are the people with no choice but to stay. Your
>>>empathy, compassion, and respect for the elderly and poor who cannot
>>>evacuate on their own is overwhelming.
>>>
>>>Anyone else - like the tourists who think it's cool to stay - are fools
>>>who made the choice to commit suicide by hurricane. Because many
>>>Americans own cell phones, cars, have toilets, have electronics, they
>>>assume everyone in the world, including some of their fellow Americans,
>>>own the same. Too bad it isn't true.
>>>
>>>Sandi
>>
>>
>> Americans do NOT assume that that everyone in the world, including some
>> of their fellow Americans, own cells phones, cars, have toilets, have
>> electronics....
>> Dee Dee
>>
>>
>> Dee Dee
>
> Unfortunately, you are wrong. I've heard people say: "Give me your cell
> number, . . ," assuming the other person has a cell. Likewise for e-mail
> addy and so on. We ALL make assumptions sometime.
>
>
> jim

"everyone in the world"?
Whoo Hoo!
Dee Dee

Dee Randall wrote:
> "JimLane" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Dee Randall wrote:
>>
>>>"Sandi" > wrote in message
egroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>jmcquown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Gabby wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"rosie" > wrote in message
glegroups.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>airlift people north ??? Are you kidding ? They can go north under
>>>>>>>their own steam, there has been plenty of warning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Gasoline prices will no doubt be impacted, this is only one of many
>>>>>>>thing driving the price of oil.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I do hope all have gone to higher ground .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Officials say there are tens of thousands who have no way of
>>>>>>evacuating the area.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gabby
>>>>>
>>>>>No way? What, they don't know anyone with a car? Or does this mean
>>>>>they
>>>>>are being stubborn, as in the wake of the 1980's Mt. St. Helens
>>>>>eruption, "I
>>>>>won't leave, they can't make me".
>>>>
>>>>No Jill, it means many are poor and/or homeless urban inner-city
>>>>dwellers who don't have cars or don't know people with cars. They are
>>>>the elderly who don't drive and who don't have family members in the
>>>>area who drive. They are the people with no choice but to stay. Your
>>>>empathy, compassion, and respect for the elderly and poor who cannot
>>>>evacuate on their own is overwhelming.
>>>>
>>>>Anyone else - like the tourists who think it's cool to stay - are fools
>>>>who made the choice to commit suicide by hurricane. Because many
>>>>Americans own cell phones, cars, have toilets, have electronics, they
>>>>assume everyone in the world, including some of their fellow Americans,
>>>>own the same. Too bad it isn't true.
>>>>
>>>>Sandi
>>>
>>>
>>>Americans do NOT assume that that everyone in the world, including some
>>>of their fellow Americans, own cells phones, cars, have toilets, have
>>>electronics....
>>>Dee Dee
>>>
>>>
>>>Dee Dee
>>
>>Unfortunately, you are wrong. I've heard people say: "Give me your cell
>>number, . . ," assuming the other person has a cell. Likewise for e-mail
>>addy and so on. We ALL make assumptions sometime.
>>
>>
>>jim
>
>
> "everyone in the world"?
> Whoo Hoo!
> Dee Dee
>
>

Even you. Want a broader picture? Look into "self reference criterion"
and that will help explain it from a different angle. Other pertinent
information can be found researching paradigm change and so on.


jim

"JimLane" > wrote in message
...
> Dee Randall wrote:
>> "JimLane" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Dee Randall wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Sandi" > wrote in message
legroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>jmcquown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Gabby wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"rosie" > wrote in message
oglegroups.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>airlift people north ??? Are you kidding ? They can go north under
>>>>>>>>their own steam, there has been plenty of warning.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Gasoline prices will no doubt be impacted, this is only one of many
>>>>>>>>thing driving the price of oil.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I do hope all have gone to higher ground .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Officials say there are tens of thousands who have no way of
>>>>>>>evacuating the area.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Gabby
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No way? What, they don't know anyone with a car? Or does this mean
>>>>>>they
>>>>>>are being stubborn, as in the wake of the 1980's Mt. St. Helens
>>>>>>eruption, "I
>>>>>>won't leave, they can't make me".
>>>>>
>>>>>No Jill, it means many are poor and/or homeless urban inner-city
>>>>>dwellers who don't have cars or don't know people with cars. They are
>>>>>the elderly who don't drive and who don't have family members in the
>>>>>area who drive. They are the people with no choice but to stay. Your
>>>>>empathy, compassion, and respect for the elderly and poor who cannot
>>>>>evacuate on their own is overwhelming.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyone else - like the tourists who think it's cool to stay - are fools
>>>>>who made the choice to commit suicide by hurricane. Because many
>>>>>Americans own cell phones, cars, have toilets, have electronics, they
>>>>>assume everyone in the world, including some of their fellow Americans,
>>>>>own the same. Too bad it isn't true.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sandi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Americans do NOT assume that that everyone in the world, including some
>>>>of their fellow Americans, own cells phones, cars, have toilets, have
>>>>electronics....
>>>>Dee Dee
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Dee Dee
>>>
>>>Unfortunately, you are wrong. I've heard people say: "Give me your cell
>>>number, . . ," assuming the other person has a cell. Likewise for e-mail
>>>addy and so on. We ALL make assumptions sometime.
>>>
>>>
>>>jim
>>
>>
>> "everyone in the world"?
>> Whoo Hoo!
>> Dee Dee
>
> Even you. Want a broader picture? Look into "self reference criterion" and
> that will help explain it from a different angle. Other pertinent
> information can be found researching paradigm change and so on.
>
>
> jim

Last word! Last word! Last Word!!
Dee Dee

Dee Randall wrote:


>
> Americans do NOT assume that that everyone in the world, including some of
> their fellow Americans, own cells phones, cars, have toilets, have
> electronics....

You don't know how many Americans (and Europeans for that matter) I
have heard here in Honduras ask for phone numbers, cell phone numbers,
email addresses, etc. They just assume that people have these
conveniences. Many but not all, and that were the operative words in my
statement, assume people everywhere else are just like them...with all
the modern conveniences immediately at hand. It just ain't so.

A friend just got her phone number issued to her after a 4 year wait.
It will be another 6 months to a year before it is actually installed.
If she needs to make a call, she needs to find someone with phone or
walk the three miles into town to use the public phone in front of the
phone company office. Oh yeah....and for toilets and showers......her
mother has a screened off area in her yard with a hole for the toilet
and another screened off area with a 55gal drum that has a hose
attached to it as a shower. The village her mother lives in has one
phone for about 75 families. It is only accessible from 8a.m. to 8p.m.,
outgoing calls only. I knew the score before I moved here about phones,
TV, internet, etc. We'd still be waiting for a phone but the landlord
assigned one of his business lines to our house.
Americans that I've seen here are stunned when they are told there are
no private phone lines, no internet access, no TV reception, in many of
the small villages within 5 miles of town. I witness these assumptions
every time a new batch of Americans shows up in town. It's amazing
watching the show.

Sandi

Sandi at wrote on 8/29/05 7:45 PM:

>
> Dee Randall wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Americans do NOT assume that that everyone in the world, including some of
>> their fellow Americans, own cells phones, cars, have toilets, have
>> electronics....
>
> You don't know how many Americans (and Europeans for that matter) I
> have heard here in Honduras ask for phone numbers, cell phone numbers,
> email addresses, etc. They just assume that people have these
> conveniences. Many but not all, and that were the operative words in my
> statement, assume people everywhere else are just like them...with all
> the modern conveniences immediately at hand. It just ain't so.
>
> A friend just got her phone number issued to her after a 4 year wait.
> It will be another 6 months to a year before it is actually installed.
> If she needs to make a call, she needs to find someone with phone or
> walk the three miles into town to use the public phone in front of the
> phone company office. Oh yeah....and for toilets and showers......her
> mother has a screened off area in her yard with a hole for the toilet
> and another screened off area with a 55gal drum that has a hose
> attached to it as a shower. The village her mother lives in has one
> phone for about 75 families. It is only accessible from 8a.m. to 8p.m.,
> outgoing calls only. I knew the score before I moved here about phones,
> TV, internet, etc. We'd still be waiting for a phone but the landlord
> assigned one of his business lines to our house.
> Americans that I've seen here are stunned when they are told there are
> no private phone lines, no internet access, no TV reception, in many of
> the small villages within 5 miles of town. I witness these assumptions
> every time a new batch of Americans shows up in town. It's amazing
> watching the show.
>
> Sandi
>

Why would anyone ~choose~ to live under such primitive conditions in a third
world country?

What am I missing?

---
Love like you've never been hurt
Live like there's no tomorrow
And dance like there's nobody watching

Sheryl Rosen wrote:

> Why would anyone ~choose~ to live under such primitive conditions in a third
> world country?
>
> What am I missing?

Perhaps the same types who like to go camping on vacay, while I like
room service when I'm on holiday?

Goomba38 wrote:
> Sheryl Rosen wrote:
>
> > Why would anyone ~choose~ to live under such primitive conditions in a third
> > world country?
> >
> > What am I missing?
>
> Perhaps the same types who like to go camping on vacay, while I like
> room service when I'm on holiday?

Also, many in the US actually live not much differently than as if they
were in a third world country, only they don't seem to know it...
always announcing how poor they are, always announcing how they
scrimp... of course it's *entirely* their *choice* yet they continue to
maintain an underprivileged life style, for whatever reason only their
shink could possibly know. Those who are born into a third world
country haven't much choice but anyone who chooses to move to and live
there obviously has some element of guilt in their psyche, and/or they
simply choose to forego certain creature comforts in lieu of recieving
much more value for their US dollars than had they remained in the
US... many US retirees move to Central America, a US pension can buy
quite an opulent life style, if they're in relatively good health
(typically medical resources aren't the best) and willing to forego
things like being able to buy the latest fashions... but they can have
nice homes, eat extremely well, even have servants (btw, a housekeeper
for a US family is a very enviable position, it ensures the
housekeeper's family will be tended to also, and is a somewhat
symbiotic relationship, ensuring a smooth transition for the US family
amongst the locals). But I really wonder about those born in and
living in the US *choosing* to live impoverished life styles, they seem
to really enjoy whining, I doubt they are too well wrapped.

Sheldon

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 23:14:51 -0400, Sheryl Rosen
> connected the dots and wrote:


~
~Why would anyone ~choose~ to live under such primitive conditions in
a third
~world country?
~
~What am I missing?

Excitement, adventure, peace and quiet, human interactions. My
husband's best friend joined the Peace Corps in his 40's, went to
Ghana, taught engineering (i.e. how to fix that 30-year-old truck),
met a lovely woman, married, and planned to return there to start a
fixit business.

Helping others, teaching someone how to "fish" so they can feed
themselves and their family, teaching school, and in the process
learning about yourself and how someone else from a different culture
views the world.

Humans didn't always have flush toilets, instant communications, or
brand new cars. It can be rewarding to learn how to live comfortably
on your own without all the things we take for granted.

OB cooking: In many TWCs, they have what amounts to a chimney stove
which is very economical to cook on.

maxine in ri