I wonder if anybody here can help me with a long-standing question.

Back in the 1970s there were two types of tomato ketchup - the Heinz
sort that everybody had a home and a much more runny version that
places like Wimpy and the Golden Egg used to serve in tomato-shaped
squeezy bottles. Over the years the Heinz sort seems to have
conclusively wiped out the cheaper and runnier version. For a long time
you would find it in greasy cafes, but even the cheapest of the bulk
producers only seems to do faux-Heinz products nowadays.

I would love to be able to get hold of some of the old-style runny
tomato ketchup. It had a very distinctly different taste, but I've no
idea what ingredents gave it that. Presuming there's no supplier of the
stuff still standing, can anybody point me in the direction of a
recipe, or just let me know what the different ingredients were? Or
even how to water down Heinz to make something similar.

Many thanks for help with this strange request!

Regards,
David

On Wed 31 Aug 2005 09:12:09a, David wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> I wonder if anybody here can help me with a long-standing question.
>
> Back in the 1970s there were two types of tomato ketchup - the Heinz
> sort that everybody had a home and a much more runny version that
> places like Wimpy and the Golden Egg used to serve in tomato-shaped
> squeezy bottles. Over the years the Heinz sort seems to have
> conclusively wiped out the cheaper and runnier version. For a long time
> you would find it in greasy cafes, but even the cheapest of the bulk
> producers only seems to do faux-Heinz products nowadays.
>
> I would love to be able to get hold of some of the old-style runny
> tomato ketchup. It had a very distinctly different taste, but I've no
> idea what ingredents gave it that. Presuming there's no supplier of the
> stuff still standing, can anybody point me in the direction of a
> recipe, or just let me know what the different ingredients were? Or
> even how to water down Heinz to make something similar.
>
> Many thanks for help with this strange request!
>
> Regards,
> David

LOL! I think it was just the better catsup watered down. Lots of places
used to do that. Some stilil do.



--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

David wrote:

> I would love to be able to get hold of some of the old-style runny
> tomato ketchup.


David,

Maybe try adding some vinegar and sugar, maybe a capful and a pinch at a
time? Watering it down wouldn't change the flavor much.

--
Andy
http://tinyurl.com/dzl7h

In article . com>,
"David" > wrote:

> I wonder if anybody here can help me with a long-standing question.
>
> Back in the 1970s there were two types of tomato ketchup - the Heinz
> sort that everybody had a home and a much more runny version that
> places like Wimpy and the Golden Egg used to serve in tomato-shaped
> squeezy bottles. Over the years the Heinz sort seems to have
> conclusively wiped out the cheaper and runnier version. For a long time
> you would find it in greasy cafes, but even the cheapest of the bulk
> producers only seems to do faux-Heinz products nowadays.
>
> I would love to be able to get hold of some of the old-style runny
> tomato ketchup. It had a very distinctly different taste, but I've no
> idea what ingredents gave it that. Presuming there's no supplier of the
> stuff still standing, can anybody point me in the direction of a
> recipe, or just let me know what the different ingredients were? Or
> even how to water down Heinz to make something similar.

All it is is watered down ketchup. Just take some Heinz ketchup and add
enough water to get the consistency you prefer.

My parents always used to say they'd just added vinegar, but that
wasn't the case. I later discovered that the stuff they sold in bulk to
restaurants from the local cash-and-carry in big gallon containers was
exactly what they put out on the tables.

I've already tried watering the Heinz stuff down with malt vinegar and
sugar, but with no luck. Sure, you can get the right consistency, but
there's definitely some ingredient in there that's either not there or
not so prevalent in the Heinz-style products. Possibly it's some
variant of vinegar, or perhaps corn syrup rather than sugar.

Damn - this has been bugging me for years!

"David" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> My parents always used to say they'd just added vinegar, but that
> wasn't the case. I later discovered that the stuff they sold in bulk to
> restaurants from the local cash-and-carry in big gallon containers was
> exactly what they put out on the tables.
>
> I've already tried watering the Heinz stuff down with malt vinegar and
> sugar, but with no luck. Sure, you can get the right consistency, but
> there's definitely some ingredient in there that's either not there or
> not so prevalent in the Heinz-style products. Possibly it's some
> variant of vinegar, or perhaps corn syrup rather than sugar.
>
> Damn - this has been bugging me for years!

Or perhaps light brown sugar.
Dee Dee

David wrote:

> I wonder if anybody here can help me with a long-standing question.
>
> Back in the 1970s there were two types of tomato ketchup - the Heinz
> sort that everybody had a home and a much more runny version that
> places like Wimpy and the Golden Egg used to serve in tomato-shaped
> squeezy bottles. Over the years the Heinz sort seems to have
> conclusively wiped out the cheaper and runnier version. For a long time
> you would find it in greasy cafes, but even the cheapest of the bulk
> producers only seems to do faux-Heinz products nowadays.
>
> I would love to be able to get hold of some of the old-style runny
> tomato ketchup. It had a very distinctly different taste, but I've no
> idea what ingredents gave it that. Presuming there's no supplier of the
> stuff still standing, can anybody point me in the direction of a
> recipe, or just let me know what the different ingredients were? Or
> even how to water down Heinz to make something similar.
>
> Many thanks for help with this strange request!
>
> Regards,
> David
>
If you home can you could make a batch of ketchup and adjust the
consistency. IIRC homecanning.com has a recipe or two on their website.
If you can't find it, I can post the recipes for you. The first makes
2 pts and the second makes 3 pts so if you use a lot of ketchup I would
think this amount would keep in the fridge quite well without canning.
If you don't home can, perhaps one of the cheaper no name or store
brands will be thinner or you could always try watering it down.

David wrote:

> Damn - this has been bugging me for years!


David,

Sounds like it's high time you break out a dozen dixie cups and
experiment!!! After you thin it out, add stuff.

--
Andy
http://tinyurl.com/dzl7h

David wrote:
> I wonder if anybody here can help me with a long-standing question.
>
> Back in the 1970s there were two types of tomato ketchup - the Heinz
> sort that everybody had a home

And Del Monte and Hunt's and some made for specific companies that
operated foodservice outlets. Franchise companies often had their
condiments made to their specs.

> and a much more runny version that places like Wimpy and the Golden
> Egg used to serve in tomato-shaped squeezy bottles. Over the years
> the Heinz sort seems to have conclusively wiped out the cheaper and
> runnier version. For a long time you would find it in greasy cafes,
> but even the cheapest of the bulk producers only seems to do
> faux-Heinz products nowadays.
>
> I would love to be able to get hold of some of the old-style runny
> tomato ketchup. It had a very distinctly different taste, but I've no
> idea what ingredents gave it that. Presuming there's no supplier of
> the stuff still standing, can anybody point me in the direction of a
> recipe, or just let me know what the different ingredients were? Or
> even how to water down Heinz to make something similar.

Restaurants can get many different kinds and qualities of ketchup, and
they can buy it (and could then) in many different containers including
bottles of different sizes, cans, large jugs and big plastic bags. It
was available from the very dense Heinz down to house brands that ran
freely out of their containers.

Those squeezy bottles are filled from larger containers. What went into
them is anybody's guess at this remove, although they were often filled
with water-thinned ketchup.

Another thing that happened with those ketchup dispensers is
fermentation. Ketchups were supposed to be room temperature stable
because of how they were prepared, and they are until they're opened and
before dilution. If left around at room temp in the squeezy tomatoes
with refills just going in on top of whatever was already in there,
after a time, they fermented. In the course of that fermentation, they
thinned out further still and the sweetness was diminished. Flavors
changed. Texture changed.

<http://www.ketchupworld.com/>

Pastorio

David wrote:

> My parents always used to say they'd just added vinegar, but that
> wasn't the case. I later discovered that the stuff they sold in bulk to
> restaurants from the local cash-and-carry in big gallon containers was
> exactly what they put out on the tables.
>
> I've already tried watering the Heinz stuff down with malt vinegar and
> sugar, but with no luck. Sure, you can get the right consistency, but
> there's definitely some ingredient in there that's either not there or
> not so prevalent in the Heinz-style products. Possibly it's some
> variant of vinegar, or perhaps corn syrup rather than sugar.
>
> Damn - this has been bugging me for years!
>
I think but can't be sure that Heinz uses corn syrup. I have one recipe
that uses one that uses granulated sugar and I've seen some using brown
sugar. Each would give a different flavour. The variety in ingredients
will change the flavour. Have you tried cidar vinegar or white vinegar
rather than malt vinegar?

Andy wrote:

> David wrote:
>
>
>>Damn - this has been bugging me for years!
>
>
>
> David,
>
> Sounds like it's high time you break out a dozen dixie cups and
> experiment!!! After you thin it out, add stuff.
>
The recipes I have include allspice, cinnamon, cloves, and paprika. The
mustard varies from sse to dry. One has cayenne pepper and the other
doesn't. One has celery seed but not cayenne pepper. It might be a
tinkering experiment to get the taste right as the OP said the actual
ketchup tasted different than the Heinze style.

David wrote:
>
> I would love to be able to get hold of some of the old-style
> runny tomato ketchup.

Is it possible some places would fill the ketchup
dispensers with tomato sauce? That would be runny,
and I for one would prefer it.

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote
> On Wed 31 Aug 2005 09:12:09a, David wrote in rec.food.cooking:

>> recipe, or just let me know what the different ingredients were? Or
>> even how to water down Heinz to make something similar.

> LOL! I think it was just the better catsup watered down. Lots of places
> used to do that. Some stilil do.

(laugh!) I just remembered having lunch with a friend of mine,
she worked at restaurants in her younger days. Whatever she
ordered, she was putting ketchup on it, Heinz. After a good
long Anticipation minute, she said, you can tell they don't water
down the ketchup here.

nancy

Stan Horwitz wrote:
> In article . com>,
> "David" > wrote:
>
>
>>I wonder if anybody here can help me with a long-standing question.
>>
>>Back in the 1970s there were two types of tomato ketchup - the Heinz
>>sort that everybody had a home and a much more runny version that
>>places like Wimpy and the Golden Egg used to serve in tomato-shaped
>>squeezy bottles. Over the years the Heinz sort seems to have
>>conclusively wiped out the cheaper and runnier version. For a long time
>>you would find it in greasy cafes, but even the cheapest of the bulk
>>producers only seems to do faux-Heinz products nowadays.
>>
>>I would love to be able to get hold of some of the old-style runny
>>tomato ketchup. It had a very distinctly different taste, but I've no
>>idea what ingredents gave it that. Presuming there's no supplier of the
>>stuff still standing, can anybody point me in the direction of a
>>recipe, or just let me know what the different ingredients were? Or
>>even how to water down Heinz to make something similar.
>
>
> All it is is watered down ketchup. Just take some Heinz ketchup and add
> enough water to get the consistency you prefer.

I suspect it wouldn't be the same. Heinz ketchup has tons of sugar in it
(probably why kids like it). The other stuff had a lot more flavor.

George wrote:

>> All it is is watered down ketchup. Just take some Heinz ketchup and
>> add enough water to get the consistency you prefer.
>
>
> I suspect it wouldn't be the same. Heinz ketchup has tons of sugar in it
> (probably why kids like it). The other stuff had a lot more flavor.

Many moons ago I attempted to make ketchup. I don't even recall the
recipe (from a canning cookbook, I'm sure) and it ended up "thinner"
than I was expecting. The texture was more like not overly pureed salsa,
in that you could still recognize bits and pieces yet nothing was
"lumpy"? The spiciness was wonderful, I think it even had cinnamon in
it? I don't recall it being loaded with sugar, yet I know it had to be
in there someplace? I can still taste it in my mind.. I wish I had some now!
Goomba

"David" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> I would love to be able to get hold of some of the old-style runny
> tomato ketchup.

Go to the supermarket. It says "Hunt's" on the bottle.


--
Jennifer Lopez Lingerie *plus* Gourmet Goodies
www.cafepress.com/dwacon

L, not -L wrote:

>
> On 31-Aug-2005, "Bob (this one)" > wrote:
>
> > David wrote:
> > > I wonder if anybody here can help me with a long-standing
> > > question.
> > >
> > > Back in the 1970s there were two types of tomato ketchup - the
> > > Heinz sort that everybody had a home
> >
> > And Del Monte and Hunt's and some made for specific companies that
> > operated foodservice outlets. Franchise companies often had their
> > condiments made to their specs.
>
> And my favorite, Brook's Catsup
> http://www.legendsofamerica.com/phot...iantCatsup.jpg


Yahoo, Brook's Tangy!

We used to get that a lot at home when I was a kid.



Brian

On 31 Aug 2005 09:12:09 -0700, David wrote:

> I wonder if anybody here can help me with a long-standing question.
>
> Back in the 1970s there were two types of tomato ketchup - the Heinz
> sort that everybody had a home and a much more runny version that
> places like Wimpy and the Golden Egg used to serve in tomato-shaped
> squeezy bottles. Over the years the Heinz sort seems to have
> conclusively wiped out the cheaper and runnier version. For a long time
> you would find it in greasy cafes, but even the cheapest of the bulk
> producers only seems to do faux-Heinz products nowadays.
>
> I would love to be able to get hold of some of the old-style runny
> tomato ketchup. It had a very distinctly different taste, but I've no
> idea what ingredents gave it that. Presuming there's no supplier of the
> stuff still standing, can anybody point me in the direction of a
> recipe, or just let me know what the different ingredients were? Or
> even how to water down Heinz to make something similar.
>
> Many thanks for help with this strange request!
>
> Regards,
> David

There are only two ketchups in the world: thick Heinz and runny Hunts.

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:

> David wrote:
> >
> > I would love to be able to get hold of some of the old-style
> > runny tomato ketchup.
>
> Is it possible some places would fill the ketchup
> dispensers with tomato sauce? That would be runny,
> and I for one would prefer it.

I never experienced that, but I did, and still sometimes do, find
restaurants where the ketchup is simply diluted by doing nothing other
than adding water to the container.

In article >,
~patches~ > wrote:

> David wrote:
>
> > My parents always used to say they'd just added vinegar, but that
> > wasn't the case. I later discovered that the stuff they sold in bulk to
> > restaurants from the local cash-and-carry in big gallon containers was
> > exactly what they put out on the tables.
> >
> > I've already tried watering the Heinz stuff down with malt vinegar and
> > sugar, but with no luck. Sure, you can get the right consistency, but
> > there's definitely some ingredient in there that's either not there or
> > not so prevalent in the Heinz-style products. Possibly it's some
> > variant of vinegar, or perhaps corn syrup rather than sugar.
> >
> > Damn - this has been bugging me for years!
> >
> I think but can't be sure that Heinz uses corn syrup. I have one recipe
> that uses one that uses granulated sugar and I've seen some using brown
> sugar. Each would give a different flavour. The variety in ingredients
> will change the flavour. Have you tried cidar vinegar or white vinegar
> rather than malt vinegar?

It depends on the country. Heinz uses real sugar in countries where
sugar is not heavily taxed. In the United States, where sugar cane is
heavily taxed, Heinz uses corn syrup because its cheaper than sugar.

"Stan Horwitz" > wrote

> I never experienced that, but I did, and still sometimes do, find
> restaurants where the ketchup is simply diluted by doing nothing other
> than adding water to the container.

Does that bother you? It would me. The 'yuck' factor.

nancy

In article >,
"Nancy Young" > wrote:

> "Stan Horwitz" > wrote
>
> > I never experienced that, but I did, and still sometimes do, find
> > restaurants where the ketchup is simply diluted by doing nothing other
> > than adding water to the container.
>
> Does that bother you? It would me. The 'yuck' factor.

Yes. That kind of thing bothers me a lot. I am also bothered by
restaurants who refill Heinz ketchup bottles with cheaper non-Heinz
ketchup. Fortunately, I only encountered one restaurant that did that.

Stan Horwitz wrote:

> In article >,
> Mark Thorson > wrote:
>
>
>>David wrote:
>>
>>>I would love to be able to get hold of some of the old-style
>>>runny tomato ketchup.
>>
>>Is it possible some places would fill the ketchup
>>dispensers with tomato sauce? That would be runny,
>>and I for one would prefer it.
>
>
> I never experienced that, but I did, and still sometimes do, find
> restaurants where the ketchup is simply diluted by doing nothing other
> than adding water to the container.

On my ketchup experiments research I found one recipe that used tomato
paste and other ingredients to create ketchup. I would imagine you
could adjust this recipe by diluting and the ingredients would easily be
those on hand for most restaurants.. Other ketchup recipes you can
adjust the cooking times to make it runnier or not. I doubt many
restaurants would take the time to make their own other than the tomato
paste recipe. Personally, I'm kind of leary of those containers when
eating out simply because you don't know how long the ketchup has been
sitting there and the hygiene invoved with the containers or if it is
even the same ketchup the bottle says it it.

In article >,
~patches~ > wrote:

> Stan Horwitz wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Mark Thorson > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>David wrote:
> >>
> >>>I would love to be able to get hold of some of the old-style
> >>>runny tomato ketchup.
> >>
> >>Is it possible some places would fill the ketchup
> >>dispensers with tomato sauce? That would be runny,
> >>and I for one would prefer it.
> >
> >
> > I never experienced that, but I did, and still sometimes do, find
> > restaurants where the ketchup is simply diluted by doing nothing other
> > than adding water to the container.
>
> On my ketchup experiments research I found one recipe that used tomato
> paste and other ingredients to create ketchup. I would imagine you
> could adjust this recipe by diluting and the ingredients would easily be
> those on hand for most restaurants.. Other ketchup recipes you can
> adjust the cooking times to make it runnier or not. I doubt many
> restaurants would take the time to make their own other than the tomato
> paste recipe. Personally, I'm kind of leary of those containers when
> eating out simply because you don't know how long the ketchup has been
> sitting there and the hygiene invoved with the containers or if it is
> even the same ketchup the bottle says it it.

Me too.

I also tried making my own ketchup once. It was a hell of a lot of work.
I really made it from scratch, meaning I used fresh tomatoes, no tomato
paste or other ready-made ingredients. I served that ketchup at a party
and it got rave reviews. That was ten years ago, easily and I still get
requests to make that ketchup again.

Unfortunately for my friends who want me to make my homemade ketchup
again, it isn't going to happen. I like Heinz ketchup just fine and if I
am going to spend a lot of time cooking anything, it will be for
something I would at least enjoy more than the store bought alternative.

Stan Horwitz wrote:

> In article >,
> ~patches~ > wrote:
>
>
>>Stan Horwitz wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> Mark Thorson > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>David wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I would love to be able to get hold of some of the old-style
>>>>>runny tomato ketchup.
>>>>
>>>>Is it possible some places would fill the ketchup
>>>>dispensers with tomato sauce? That would be runny,
>>>>and I for one would prefer it.
>>>
>>>
>>>I never experienced that, but I did, and still sometimes do, find
>>>restaurants where the ketchup is simply diluted by doing nothing other
>>>than adding water to the container.
>>
>>On my ketchup experiments research I found one recipe that used tomato
>>paste and other ingredients to create ketchup. I would imagine you
>>could adjust this recipe by diluting and the ingredients would easily be
>>those on hand for most restaurants.. Other ketchup recipes you can
>>adjust the cooking times to make it runnier or not. I doubt many
>>restaurants would take the time to make their own other than the tomato
>>paste recipe. Personally, I'm kind of leary of those containers when
>>eating out simply because you don't know how long the ketchup has been
>>sitting there and the hygiene invoved with the containers or if it is
>>even the same ketchup the bottle says it it.
>
>
> Me too.
>
> I also tried making my own ketchup once. It was a hell of a lot of work.
> I really made it from scratch, meaning I used fresh tomatoes, no tomato
> paste or other ready-made ingredients. I served that ketchup at a party
> and it got rave reviews. That was ten years ago, easily and I still get
> requests to make that ketchup again.

My first batch was straight from scratch. I didn't find it all that
much work as I used a food mill so there was no peeling or coring of the
tomatoes. I used fresh herbs and a spice bag but dang that stuff turned
out great! I still want to do a little tinkering for just the right
flavour.
>
> Unfortunately for my friends who want me to make my homemade ketchup
> again, it isn't going to happen. I like Heinz ketchup just fine and if I
> am going to spend a lot of time cooking anything, it will be for
> something I would at least enjoy more than the store bought alternative.

I don't mind Heinz but I want to experiment. I want something a little
revved up from Heinz and something close but not quite Heinz. I don't
like it when a company dictates our tastes so I tend to march to my own
drummer

Stan Horwitz wrote:

> I also tried making my own ketchup once. It was a hell of a lot of work.
> I really made it from scratch, meaning I used fresh tomatoes, no tomato
> paste or other ready-made ingredients. I served that ketchup at a party
> and it got rave reviews. That was ten years ago, easily and I still get
> requests to make that ketchup again.
>
> Unfortunately for my friends who want me to make my homemade ketchup
> again, it isn't going to happen. I like Heinz ketchup just fine and if I
> am going to spend a lot of time cooking anything, it will be for
> something I would at least enjoy more than the store bought alternative.


Years ago I tried making ketchup, it turned out pretty wierd (I tried three
times). In any case it was a lot more work than it was worth, I'll take
Heinz anyday - none better.

--
Best
Greg

sf wrote:
> On 31 Aug 2005 09:12:09 -0700, David wrote:
>
> > I wonder if anybody here can help me with a long-standing question.
> >
> > Back in the 1970s there were two types of tomato ketchup - the Heinz
> > sort that everybody had a home and a much more runny version that
> > places like Wimpy and the Golden Egg used to serve in tomato-shaped
> > squeezy bottles. Over the years the Heinz sort seems to have
> > conclusively wiped out the cheaper and runnier version. For a long time
> > you would find it in greasy cafes, but even the cheapest of the bulk
> > producers only seems to do faux-Heinz products nowadays.
> >
> > I would love to be able to get hold of some of the old-style runny
> > tomato ketchup. It had a very distinctly different taste, but I've no
> > idea what ingredents gave it that. Presuming there's no supplier of the
> > stuff still standing, can anybody point me in the direction of a
> > recipe, or just let me know what the different ingredients were? Or
> > even how to water down Heinz to make something similar.
> >
> > Many thanks for help with this strange request!
> >
> > Regards,
> > David
>
> There are only two ketchups in the world: thick Heinz and runny Hunts.

I prefer Del Monte over Hunts and consider it a tie with Heinz...
between Heinz and Del Monte whichever is cheaper the day I shop that's
the one I buy. I don't buy Hunts products because I don't like the
name (the name Hunts repulses me) I feel psychologically
(subconciously) it encourages hunting... I'd be happy to buy their
products if they changed their name to ****s, in fact I'd have ****s on
my table even if it cost more than Heinz.. I'm not crazy of the names
Heinz and Del Monte either, I don't like product's names with ethnic
significance.

http://www.delmonte.com/Products/tom....asp?typeID=18

Actually they're thick or runny depending on many factors, time of
year, particular hybrid, soil, weather, ripeness, etc... ketchup is not
one of those products, like say Coke, that's constantly consistant.

http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_09_06_a_ketchup.html

Sheldon

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Actually they're thick or runny depending on many factors, time of
> year, particular hybrid, soil, weather, ripeness, etc... ketchup is not
> one of those products, like say Coke, that's constantly consistant.
>
> http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_09_06_a_ketchup.html
>
Thanks! That's a really good article. I've also heard a radio interview
with Gladwell --he's an interesting guy.

Pablo