Are like the weather - everyone Bitches about it and no one can do a damn thing
about it.

Feel Impotent?

You are!

Dimitri

"Dimitri" > wrote in message
m...
> Are like the weather - everyone Bitches about it and no one can do a damn
> thing about it.
>
> Feel Impotent?
>
> You are!
>
> Dimitri
>

Trying to cheer us up, are you?


--
Peter Aitken

"Peter Aitken" > wrote in message
om...
> "Dimitri" > wrote in message
> m...
>> Are like the weather - everyone Bitches about it and no one can do a damn
>> thing about it.
>>
>> Feel Impotent?
>>
>> You are!
>>
>> Dimitri
>>
>
> Trying to cheer us up, are you?
>
>
> --
> Peter Aitken

Sure why not - One you accept the facts and realize there is little you can
really do about it you can stop the mental masturbation and go on to productive
areas of one's life.

;-)

Dimitri

My friend with the Jetta TDI doesn't seem to be bitching quite as loud
as all the people with Super-sized McSuvs.

Dean G.

"Dimitri" in m:
> Are like the weather - everyone Bitches about it and no one can do a damn
> thing about it.
>
> Feel Impotent?
>
> You are!

With all _due_ respect Dimitri such a comment is nonsense, as follows. Not
all, but many, people have a say in how much, and what, they drive I know
several in the US who moved to efficient gas-electric hybrids in the last
five years. Previous petroleum squeezes awoke US consumers and they chose
different habits and different vehicles. I posted something on the early
newsgroup net.flame (so useful! alas ...) on the practicality of bicycles
(23 Sep 1983). People love to deny actual power they exercise incessantly
through choices. Other factors operate too. One US economic historian
wrote several years ago:

--------
As bitterly resented as the gasoline lines of the 1970s were under
government price controls, there were widespread predictions of skyrocketing
gasoline prices if these controls were abolished. ... Senator Dale Bumpers
predicted, "gasoline will soon go to USD $3 a gallon." [Note that's 1970s
USD $3 -- I found 2.76 US inflation index 1979 to 2004 so this price
represents $8 a gallon in today's dollars.] Airs of condescension pervaded
criticisms of those who believed otherwise and who relied on a free market.
[Example from New York Times omitted.] [Example from President Jimmy Carter
omitted.] ... [Price controls subsquently ended under new President.]
Within four months, the average price of a gallon of unleaded gasoline fell
from $1.41 to $0.86 . Refineries' average cost of buying crude oil fell from
more than $30 a barrel in 1981 to less than half of that by 1986. Contrary
to predictions of oil or gasoline shortages by President Carter's energy
secretary James Schlesinger, by Senator Bumpers, and others, the world's
known crude oil reserves were 41 percent higher at the end of the 1980s than
at the beginning.

[Not from online. Author cited source data.]
--------


"Why don't people learn from such things?" is the real question, I feel.

(I wonder also how many in the US now "bitching" bought SUVs when those
became fashionable.)

-- Max

"Max Hauser" > wrote in message
...
> "Dimitri" in m:
>> Are like the weather - everyone Bitches about it and no one can do a damn
>> thing about it.
>>
>> Feel Impotent?
>>
>> You are!
>
> With all _due_ respect Dimitri such a comment is nonsense, as follows. Not
> all, but many, people have a say in how much, and what, they drive I know
> several in the US who moved to efficient gas-electric hybrids in the last five
> years. Previous petroleum squeezes awoke US consumers and they chose
> different habits and different vehicles.

Essentially, the public and drive whatever they want - the effect of the "
American Driver" on the price of gas and crude is nil. If we don't buy it the
Chinese will and they'll probably out bid us as well. The simple fact is today
the demand for petroleum and petrochemical products is insatiable as is our
overall desire for energy.

Dimitri

Sorry, didn't fill in the story very well. US shifts in vehicles and habits
mentioned earlier contributed to the famous 1980s oil-price collapse, so
visible indirectly in places like Texas -- I remember seeing the new office
buildings remaining vacant -- owners offering a year free for a tenant who
would lease ... The history and the effects of consumer choices are out
there, for those who actually want to read about them.

"Max Hauser" > wrote in message
...
> Sorry, didn't fill in the story very well. US shifts in vehicles and habits
> mentioned earlier contributed to the famous 1980s oil-price collapse, so
> visible indirectly in places like Texas -- I remember seeing the new office
> buildings remaining vacant -- owners offering a year free for a tenant who
> would lease ... The history and the effects of consumer choices are out
> there, for those who actually want to read about them.

I remember some of the finest Hotels running at 10% & 15 % occupancy. I would
walk into a bar - you'd think I was the King of someplace special the way I was
greeted and catered to.

Dimitri.

In article > ,
"Dimitri" > wrote:

> Are like the weather - everyone Bitches about it and no one can do a damn
> thing
> about it.
>
> Feel Impotent?
>
> You are!
>
> Dimitri
>
>

Bite me. ;-)
I knew that, did not need my nosed rubbed in it.

<sigh>

So, do you feel better now?

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

"Dimitri" > wrote in message
m...
> Are like the weather - everyone Bitches about it and no one can do a damn
> thing about it.
>
> Feel Impotent?
>
> You are!

Pretty much, except ... take my neighbors, I like them very much, but they
do one errand at a time. I have a friend who is the same way, back and
forth to the house and whatever store. A little organization can cut down
on the number of trips.

Perhaps switch your shopping/whatever sources to places local to each
other so you can pick up the cleaning, go to the bank, shop for food,
without having to drive all over the place.

If you run out at lunch to get something to eat, how about bring lunch and
save yourself some gas.

Obviously if you can, work from home a couple of days a week; yes, I
know, that is not an option for many people.

I think most people can make some adjustments to cut down on their gas
compsumption.

But, for the most part, yup, we're stuck. (smile)

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in
:

> Perhaps switch your shopping/whatever sources to places local to
> each other so you can pick up the cleaning, go to the bank, shop
> for food, without having to drive all over the place.

I usually do that anyway.

> If you run out at lunch to get something to eat, how about bring
> lunch and save yourself some gas.

I work downtown. Food providers are all around...no need to drive.

> Obviously if you can, work from home a couple of days a week; yes,
> I know, that is not an option for many people.

Not possible. Job requires constant interaction with fellow
employees, clients, resources and managers.

> I think most people can make some adjustments to cut down on their
> gas compsumption.

You forgot:

Walk to work if you can.

Take public transit.

Move closer to your work. If you live in an apartment and your lease
is coming up, consider moving closer to work if this is possible.

Car pool.

When travelling between cities that are relatively close, take the
train. Trains are much more economical in fuel consumption than
cars, buses or airplanes.

If possible switch to a non fossil-fuel based heat source
(electricity, biomass...)

Encourage soft energy initiatives in your immediate area,
particularly wind generators which can alleviate the need to burn
fossil fuels for electricity (which I believe still happens in some
parts of the US and Western Canada). Also, create cooperatives to
distribute electricity to your neighbourhood.

Pressure the big poobah to sign the Kyoto Agreement and put measures
into place to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Canada has initiated a programme called the One-tonne Challenge which
calls upon citizens to reduce GHG by one tonne per person per year.
As the average person creates 5 tonnes of GHG in a year, reducing the
consumption by one tonne means cutting back on 20% of GHG producing
activities and of course one of them (the big one) is vehicle fuel
consumption.

http://www.climatechange.gc.ca/oneto...lish/index.asp

Of course, like most government programs, it doesn't address the real
issue which is that the other four tonnes are still creating a
problem, but hey, it's what is called a "prise de conscience" and for
some people, it will be a substantial lifestyle change.

Back in the 70's, I was a writer for a government sponsored
initiative to get people to cut back on energy consumption. To this
day, some of the people that were in touch with us still use the
measures they were given back then, mostly heating through biomass
(wood).

Doing the right thing is never wasted, unlike what George suggested.

--

"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."

Dostoevski, The Idiot

"Michel Boucher" > wrote

> "Nancy Young" > wrote in

>> Perhaps switch your shopping/whatever sources to places local to
>> each other so you can pick up the cleaning, go to the bank, shop
>> for food, without having to drive all over the place.
>
> I usually do that anyway.

I am sure you do, not everyone does. These were only suggestions
on *how* people might cut down on their gas bill.

>> If you run out at lunch to get something to eat, how about bring
>> lunch and save yourself some gas.

>> I think most people can make some adjustments to cut down on their
>> gas compsumption.
>
> You forgot:

I'll pretend I'm someone else who does work, because otherwise
my answers would be similar to yours, 'doesn't apply to me'.

> Walk to work if you can.

Out of the question. Even the places where *maybe* they'd
have work for me, it would be a stretch to think I could walk
there. Never mind it's pretty much a stretch for me to walk to
the kitchen these days, but that's another subject.

> Take public transit.

None. Zip. Zero.

> Move closer to your work. If you live in an apartment and your lease
> is coming up, consider moving closer to work if this is possible.

Don't forget the topic at hand. Gas prices and how to cut them to
save money. The subject had to do with the price of gas and how there
is nothing we can do about it. So, I fail to see how moving, an extremely
expensive undertaking, would benefit me financially. I would never
recoup my gas savings. Ever.

Never mind I'd now be living someplace I hate, but that, too, is
another topic.

> Car pool.

Very difficult to do with the work schedules and the home schedules
of different people who would work where I do. Not completely
out of the question, but there are not enough people around here,
really, who work out there.

> When travelling between cities that are relatively close, take the
> train. Trains are much more economical in fuel consumption than
> cars, buses or airplanes.

Can't argue with that. As much as I dislike public transportation
(I grew up waiting for buses and trains and I just hate it), I do
try to take the train when going to Manhattan. Even that involves
maybe an 8 mile drive to the train station.

> If possible switch to a non fossil-fuel based heat source
> (electricity, biomass...)

Electricity is expensive. We are talking about gas prices.
I keep my electric bill lower by having time-of-day service
where I can run the pool filter, etc, at night or on the
weekends. That to me compares apples and apples in
trying to save money on whatever commodity.

Save money, not the commodity. Sorry to be a pain, I'm
just making sure we don't forget the origin of this thread, it's
about saving money on gas.

> Encourage soft energy initiatives in your immediate area,
> particularly wind generators which can alleviate the need to burn
> fossil fuels for electricity (which I believe still happens in some
> parts of the US and Western Canada). Also, create cooperatives to
> distribute electricity to your neighbourhood.

They are talking about windmills in the ocean, there are objections
I haven't followed. I'll read it next time the subject comes up.

> Pressure the big poobah to sign the Kyoto Agreement and put measures
> into place to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

I can't fathom why people think he has the power to decide that, it's
a whole big machine behind the guy ... think Wizard of Oz. I know
you know that.

> Back in the 70's, I was a writer for a government sponsored
> initiative to get people to cut back on energy consumption. To this
> day, some of the people that were in touch with us still use the
> measures they were given back then, mostly heating through biomass
> (wood).

Then we'll be back to the pollution thing, and even otherwise, that's
a whole big thing to get into.

Nancy Young wrote on 02 Sep 2005 in rec.food.cooking

> Never mind it's pretty much a stretch for me to walk to
> the kitchen these days, but that's another subject.
>

Psst! I'll meet you in the hall...I have a chair there.

--
The eyes are the mirrors....
But the ears...Ah the ears.
The ears keep the hat up.

"Michel Boucher" > wrote in message
>
> If possible switch to a non fossil-fuel based heat source
> (electricity, biomass...)

The majority of electricity in this country is fossil fuel generated. The
tree huggers are fighting nuclear, wind farms and other alternative methods.
Solar, however, should be pushed much more.

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in
:

>
> "Michel Boucher" > wrote in message
>>
>> If possible switch to a non fossil-fuel based heat source
>> (electricity, biomass...)
>
> The majority of electricity in this country is fossil fuel
> generated.

Hence the qualifier "non-fossil fuel based heat source". Sheesh.

--

"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."

Dostoevski, The Idiot

"Michel Boucher" > wrote in message
...
> "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> "Michel Boucher" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> If possible switch to a non fossil-fuel based heat source
>>> (electricity, biomass...)
>>
>> The majority of electricity in this country is fossil fuel
>> generated.
>
> Hence the qualifier "non-fossil fuel based heat source". Sheesh.


Does not read that way to me. I understand biomass, but the way it is
written it is not clear. Putting them together in parentheses makes them
look like they are both non-fossil based.

In article >,
"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:

> "Michel Boucher" > wrote in message
> >
> > If possible switch to a non fossil-fuel based heat source
> > (electricity, biomass...)
>
> The majority of electricity in this country is fossil fuel generated. The
> tree huggers are fighting nuclear, wind farms and other alternative methods.
> Solar, however, should be pushed much more.
>
>

Convection generators are going to be even better.
More bang for the buck. Australia has one in the works and more might be
erected later if that one works as expected:

http://www.wired.com/news/technology...,54917,00.html

Let's pray this pans out. :-)
Free electricity except for initial outlay and upkeep!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:02:19 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> wrote:

>In article >,
> "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
YES YES YES,

I saw this beast in a dream a few years ago... look for hydrogen
conversion technology in 10 years that will blow your mind today.,..

BUL:L
not full of it
THE Moose

>
>> "Michel Boucher" > wrote in message
>> >
>> > If possible switch to a non fossil-fuel based heat source
>> > (electricity, biomass...)
>>
>> The majority of electricity in this country is fossil fuel generated. The
>> tree huggers are fighting nuclear, wind farms and other alternative methods.
>> Solar, however, should be pushed much more.
>>
>>
>
>Convection generators are going to be even better.
>More bang for the buck. Australia has one in the works and more might be
>erected later if that one works as expected:
>
>http://www.wired.com/news/technology...,54917,00.html
>
>Let's pray this pans out. :-)
>Free electricity except for initial outlay and upkeep!

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...

<snip>

> Pretty much, except ... take my neighbors, I like them very much, but they
> do one errand at a time. I have a friend who is the same way, back and
> forth to the house and whatever store. A little organization can cut down
> on the number of trips.

Forget about gas that's just common sence and a good use of time.


> Perhaps switch your shopping/whatever sources to places local to each
> other so you can pick up the cleaning, go to the bank, shop for food,
> without having to drive all over the place.

See above - just make the grocery store last (so the ice cream won't melt)


>
> If you run out at lunch to get something to eat, how about bring lunch and
> save yourself some gas.

They poened a costco across the street...

> Obviously if you can, work from home a couple of days a week; yes, I
> know, that is not an option for many people.

Wish I could - I like working in shorts and a T shirt


> I think most people can make some adjustments to cut down on their gas
> compsumption.

You bet - but not till it hurts.


> But, for the most part, yup, we're stuck. (smile)
>
> nancy

Boy how I wish I was wrong.

Dimitri

"Dimitri" > wrote in message
>
> Wish I could - I like working in shorts and a T shirt
>

I do all the time in summer. So does the president and vice president. I
used to have to wear a tie at my last job doing the same work.

Regulating peoples actions (no very small cars due to the stupid pills
we take each day)...

There are high milage vehicles available. thats the only way to
control the price of gas.. BUT of course, it goes down and we buy the
big big big HUGE and BIG gas HOGS...

NO, we will never learn..... History repeats itself.. I remember 15
cent gas... this is during a gas war when I was a kid... that was
about 3/4ths a lifetime back (mid 50s)..
The gas is high because of the mergers of oil giants.. no simple way
to fix it till the democrats get back into office to fix the greed...

sign me

republican who knows...
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 03:32:03 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
>"Dimitri" > wrote in message
>>
>> Wish I could - I like working in shorts and a T shirt
>>
>
>I do all the time in summer. So does the president and vice president. I
>used to have to wear a tie at my last job doing the same work.
>

"bull moose" > wrote in message
> The gas is high because of the mergers of oil giants.. no simple way
> to fix it till the democrats get back into office to fix the greed...
>
> sign me
>
> republican who knows...

Yeah, there are no greedy Democrats.

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 18:04:06 GMT, "Dimitri" >
connected the dots and wrote:

~Are like the weather - everyone Bitches about it and no one can do a
damn thing
~about it.
~
~Feel Impotent?
~
~You are!
~
~Dimitri
~

Especially since this week my Mom came home from the rehab center, and
my sister is in the process of organizing her house for a move up tot
he Boston area, so I've been up and back more times than a commuter
this week, packing , staying with Mom, watching the prices go up and
up and up, and today, finally, most of them went down a few pennies.

Glad she's home now, but dang, what a bad time for it.

maxine in ri

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 18:04:06 GMT, "Dimitri" >
wrote:

>Are like the weather - everyone Bitches about it and no one can do a damn thing
>about it.
>
>Feel Impotent?
>
>You are!

What I absolutely Do Not Get is, that the gas stations had their
big-assed tanks full of gas on, say, Monday, which are still full of
the same gas on, say, Friday, and they jack the price up with the same
gas in their tanks that they had on Monday?

Someone puhleeze educate me on how the gas I bought on Monday at
$3.05.9 was $3.25.09 today? (This is SoCal - the home of the USA's
highest gas prices, for reasons that escape me - insofar as we have
*4* count 'em, *4* refineries in SoCal.),

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"

Squeaks wrote:

> What I absolutely Do Not Get is, that the gas stations had their
> big-assed tanks full of gas on, say, Monday, which are still full of
> the same gas on, say, Friday, and they jack the price up with the same
> gas in their tanks that they had on Monday?
>
> Someone puhleeze educate me on how the gas I bought on Monday at
> $3.05.9 was $3.25.09 today? (This is SoCal - the home of the USA's
> highest gas prices, for reasons that escape me - insofar as we have
> *4* count 'em, *4* refineries in SoCal.),

The gas in those tanks is being sold at a rate commensurate with at least
these two figures (though there are probably other things taken into
consideration):

1. What it will cost to fill those big-assed tanks when all the gas in them
has been sold.

2. What people are willing to pay for gas.


In this case, since the gas station owner will have to spend more to fill
his tanks, he has to charge more NOW so that he'll be able to afford it.

Bob

Bob wrote:
> Squeaks wrote:
>
> > What I absolutely Do Not Get is, that the gas stations had their
> > big-assed tanks full of gas on, say, Monday, which are still full of
> > the same gas on, say, Friday, and they jack the price up with the same
> > gas in their tanks that they had on Monday?
> >
> > Someone puhleeze educate me on how the gas I bought on Monday at
> > $3.05.9 was $3.25.09 today? (This is SoCal - the home of the USA's
> > highest gas prices, for reasons that escape me - insofar as we have
> > *4* count 'em, *4* refineries in SoCal.),
>
> The gas in those tanks is being sold at a rate commensurate with at least
> these two figures (though there are probably other things taken into
> consideration):
>
> 1. What it will cost to fill those big-assed tanks when all the gas in them
> has been sold.
>
> 2. What people are willing to pay for gas.
>
>
> In this case, since the gas station owner will have to spend more to fill
> his tanks, he has to charge more NOW so that he'll be able to afford it.

The stupid **** knows not of what she speaks, So. CA has some of the
nation's *lowest* gas prices... most states have no refinery, many not
for a thousand miles and more. Noo Joisy is probably about an equal,
but except for a couple three bridges CA also has no toll booths...
mile for mile So. CA is probably the least expensive place to drive on
the planet.

Sheldon

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 22:49:50 -0700, Terry Pulliam Burd
> wrote:

> What I absolutely Do Not Get is, that the gas stations had their
>big-assed tanks full of gas on, say, Monday, which are still full of
>the same gas on, say, Friday, and they jack the price up with the same
>gas in their tanks that they had on Monday?

Some places in NYC have been raising their prices several times a day.
NYC is going to pass a law that they can only raise them once a day,
but it will take time. In the meantime, I saw a difference of 30
cents/gal between two stations across the street from each other
yesterday.

Coincidentally, I took my long-dormant bicycle to the shop to be made
road-ready last week, before all of this happened. (though yesterday
was too hot to retrieve it).

Gas prices will alter my travel plans, but I'm more worried about
winter heating.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 12:09:50 GMT, (Curly
Sue) connected the dots and wrote:

~Gas prices will alter my travel plans, but I'm more worried about
~winter heating.
~
~Sue(tm)
~Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Just got my "budget plan", up over 30% from last year.
And I cannot take a bus or bike to work, or even carpool, since none
of my coworkers live in my area or keep my hours.

maxine in ri

"maxine in ri" > wrote in message

> Just got my "budget plan", up over 30% from last year.

You did good, mine is up 48% to 2.359. At the time I thought I was getting
screwed, but today the price is already 2.40.

> And I cannot take a bus or bike to work, or even carpool, since none
> of my coworkers live in my area or keep my hours.

Same here.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

In article >,
"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:

> "maxine in ri" > wrote in message
>
> > Just got my "budget plan", up over 30% from last year.
>
> You did good, mine is up 48% to 2.359. At the time I thought I was getting
> screwed, but today the price is already 2.40.
>
> > And I cannot take a bus or bike to work, or even carpool, since none
> > of my coworkers live in my area or keep my hours.
>
> Same here.

Geez. Where are you?
Here it's up about 80%
This time last year it was about $1.69.

Now it's $2.89 to $2.98

Central Texas...
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson