I'm about to make some preserved lemons. Most recipes call for kosher
or sea salt. Is that really necessary? I have it, but I'm just curios
whether iodized would react differently.

Also, has anyone used this method with other citrus fruits?

"mangodance" > wrote in message
...
> I'm about to make some preserved lemons. Most recipes call for kosher
> or sea salt. Is that really necessary? I have it, but I'm just curios
> whether iodized would react differently.

Paula Wolfert just says "salt", no fancy dodges for Moroccan preserved
lemons.

ant

"mangodance" > wrote in message
...
> I'm about to make some preserved lemons. Most recipes call for kosher
> or sea salt. Is that really necessary? I have it, but I'm just curios
> whether iodized would react differently.

Plain salt, sea salt and rock salt will be just fine as will iodized but the
latter is a waste of time unless you are a long way from the sea and likely
to suffer from Iodine deficiency.

>
> Also, has anyone used this method with other citrus fruits?
>

Yes it works very well with limes. You get the same intense citrus flavour
but lime instead of lemon.

The only trick to it is to ensue that there is sufficient juice/salt to
cover the fruit otherwise it will get mouldy, if this happens just throw out
the mouldy bits on top and make sure the rest stays covered. Adding some
inert (glass, pottery, etc) weight on top (inside the jar) to push the fruit
down can assist.

David

David Hare-Scott wrote:

> The only trick to it is to ensue that there is sufficient juice/salt to
> cover the fruit otherwise it will get mouldy, if this happens just throw out
> the mouldy bits on top and make sure the rest stays covered. Adding some
> inert (glass, pottery, etc) weight on top (inside the jar) to push the fruit
> down can assist.

Everything I've ever seen or heard said to pack them down HARD so they
don't float up. I had my entire fist down in the cannisters packing
down the lemons. But they all still float up. If they didn't, I'd have
a safe 2" or so of juice covering them. Will they be less buoyant in a
day or two? I keep pushing them down but they're up w/in mins. I've
been scrambling for something made of glass that can go in the top of
the cannister and add weight enough to stay submerged but no luck yet.

BTW, All the careful cutting into quarters but leaving them attached at
one end was for naught. Many ripped free during the squeezing/packing.
It seems to me that it would be easier just to quarter them fully and
pack better. Does anyone just use cut lemons?

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:39:36 -0400, mangodance >
wrote:

>David Hare-Scott wrote:
>
>> The only trick to it is to ensue that there is sufficient
juice/salt to
>> cover the fruit otherwise it will get mouldy, if this happens just
throw out
>> the mouldy bits on top and make sure the rest stays covered.
Adding some
>> inert (glass, pottery, etc) weight on top (inside the jar) to push
the fruit
>> down can assist.
>
>Everything I've ever seen or heard said to pack them down HARD so
they
>don't float up. I had my entire fist down in the cannisters packing
>down the lemons. But they all still float up. If they didn't, I'd
have
>a safe 2" or so of juice covering them. Will they be less buoyant in
a
>day or two? I keep pushing them down but they're up w/in mins. I've
>been scrambling for something made of glass that can go in the top of
>the cannister and add weight enough to stay submerged but no luck
yet.
>
>BTW, All the careful cutting into quarters but leaving them attached
at
>one end was for naught. Many ripped free during the
squeezing/packing.
> It seems to me that it would be easier just to quarter them fully
and
>pack better. Does anyone just use cut lemons?


This may be OT but, in Hawaii, you often saw Lemons in large
Mayonnaise containers on tops of roofs. So I did the recipe one time.
You pack the big jar full of Lemons, then pour salt. No water, no
nothing else. When the jar, after a few months of sitting in the sun
looked juicy and ready, you popped open the jar and had preserved
lemons. I don't know if this was a Japanese recipe or Chinese or
Hawaiian, but as a kid growing up in Hawaii, the jars of Lemon were
every where! Very tasty! Makes my mouth salivate just to remember the
taste. One small bite *yowser*.

aloha, Thunder
http://www.smithfarms.com
Farmers & Sellers of 100%
Kona Coffee & other Great Stuff

smithfarms pure kona wrote:

> This may be OT but, in Hawaii, you often saw Lemons in large
> Mayonnaise containers on tops of roofs. So I did the recipe one time.
> You pack the big jar full of Lemons, then pour salt. No water, no
> nothing else. When the jar, after a few months of sitting in the sun
> looked juicy and ready, you popped open the jar and had preserved
> lemons. I don't know if this was a Japanese recipe or Chinese or
> Hawaiian, but as a kid growing up in Hawaii, the jars of Lemon were
> every where! Very tasty! Makes my mouth salivate just to remember the
> taste. One small bite *yowser*.

I've gotten bad results making PL this way. I prefer to keep them
out of light, not in, otherwise they oxidize and become brown.
They don't taste good that way, IMO.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

This is Noel in Napa, California, weighing in. I've been making
preserved lemons for donkeys' years *(about 30 years) and know exactly
the problem you're experiencing (BTW, I'm a sea salt, non-iodized,
user and I like them spiced with a bit of cinnamon stick, black
pepper, bay leaf, and coriander seed). I make a lot of different
citrus pickles (Indian), and you begin to get a sense of what will
work over time. Presoaking and thorough cleaning is imperative. I use
a stiff brush and get all the dirt and grime off. I then "polish"
them dry with a rough towel, and work over a bowl to catch the juice
and salt. I only use glass and ceramin, no metal. Some of my tricks
may be from India pickling sources, but they work in a North African
modality as well.

The trick to non-bobbing lemons is the right jar. It should be one
with "shoulders," narrowing toward the mouth. I use a glass canning
jar with a glass lid and rubber gasket. It's a bit of a balancing
act, but you need to gauge the jar size to the amount of lemons to
that when you've just about filled it, you cram in about 5-10 more,
effectively wedging them beneath the "shoulder" of the jar. You
really have to exert some force to make sure they're "trapped" beneath
the "shoulder." You then have a bit of "head room" at the mouth of
the jar, and you can top off the jar with more lemon juice (or, if
you've run out of lemons, a bit of boiled water will work). The lemons
should be so tightly packed that they don't shift or move at all when
you shake the jar; only the fluid should slosh, not the lemons.

And yes, they do "relax" as they ferment, so you can continue to smush
them down as they soften.

Regarding the quartering question, you should be making 4 slits along
the length of the lemon, but starting and stopping about 1/2" away
from each end. When you're salting, you squish down the lemon, pour in
the salt, turn, do it again, etc. When you're done, the lemon
"reforms." Yes, you will break some when you're backing them in, but
if you're careful, you'll keep them whole. I use the "broken"
sections as packing material to wedge in the whole lemons.

BTW, be aware that there is a whole lot of fermentation which takes
place and it seems to be completely random. I recently made two huge
batches. Identical lemons, jars, salt, etc. One jar when on ferment,
burping, squirting for about a month and a half; the other settled
down in two weeks.

The juice/liquid in the jars because quite cloudy, but it suddenly
clears when the the fermentation stops. You have to shake the jars
every day while they're active. After they've finished, they can lie
quiet. Be aware that a lot of pressure can build up in the jars, so
open them over a sink and away from your body or you can get covered
with lemony brine!

A funny story about preserved lemons. I'd been making them for years,
according to Paula's recipe, and loved them. When I finally got to
Morocco and tasted the lemons there, I was very disappointed! No
flavor, or really a bit soapy. When I got back to the states, I
plucked up my courage and phone Paula Wolfert to find out what the
deal was. She was kind enough to validate my discovery, saying, in
effect, that her recipe (and its reliance on lemon juice rather than
water), was really "palace style" and produced a superior product! I
was relieved to hear it. She's a wonderful person and very generous
with her information, exactly as you'd expect from such an excellent
author.


mangodance > wrote in message >...
> David Hare-Scott wrote:
>
> > The only trick to it is to ensue that there is sufficient juice/salt to
> > cover the fruit otherwise it will get mouldy, if this happens just throw out
> > the mouldy bits on top and make sure the rest stays covered. Adding some
> > inert (glass, pottery, etc) weight on top (inside the jar) to push the fruit
> > down can assist.
>
> Everything I've ever seen or heard said to pack them down HARD so they
> don't float up. I had my entire fist down in the cannisters packing
> down the lemons. But they all still float up. If they didn't, I'd have
> a safe 2" or so of juice covering them. Will they be less buoyant in a
> day or two? I keep pushing them down but they're up w/in mins. I've
> been scrambling for something made of glass that can go in the top of
> the cannister and add weight enough to stay submerged but no luck yet.
>
> BTW, All the careful cutting into quarters but leaving them attached at
> one end was for naught. Many ripped free during the squeezing/packing.
> It seems to me that it would be easier just to quarter them fully and
> pack better. Does anyone just use cut lemons?

Noel Gieleghem wrote:
> When I got back to the states, I
> plucked up my courage and phone Paula Wolfert to find out what the
> deal was. She was kind enough to validate my discovery, saying, in
> effect, that her recipe (and its reliance on lemon juice rather than
> water), was really "palace style" and produced a superior product! I
> was relieved to hear it.

excellent post and great info!
I'm a great fan of Paula Wolfert, her book got me into Moroccan cooking and
her directions ensure success.

--
ant
Remove AU to reply

I found your post very informative. I've never made preserved lemons
before - but I was looking for detailed info to do just that. That's how I
happened to join this newsgroup. I'm assuming that you just clean the
lemons - quarter them - and layer them in a jar with salt, put them in a
dark place and wait?

Would anyone be willing to divulge kindergarten instructions? You speak of
lemon juice - do you squeeze them before placing in the jar? When using the
gasket jar - I'm reading that you lock the top?

I've ever only seen this done on foodtv where they sliced them and placed
them in jars. I've tried to find the recipe on that site - but can't seem
to find it.

thanks for any and all info.

Susie


"Noel Gieleghem" > wrote in message
om...
> This is Noel in Napa, California, weighing in. I've been making
> preserved lemons for donkeys' years *(about 30 years) and know exactly
> the problem you're experiencing (BTW, I'm a sea salt, non-iodized,
> user and I like them spiced with a bit of cinnamon stick, black
> pepper, bay leaf, and coriander seed). I make a lot of different
> citrus pickles (Indian), and you begin to get a sense of what will
> work over time. Presoaking and thorough cleaning is imperative. I use
> a stiff brush and get all the dirt and grime off. I then "polish"
> them dry with a rough towel, and work over a bowl to catch the juice
> and salt. I only use glass and ceramin, no metal. Some of my tricks
> may be from India pickling sources, but they work in a North African
> modality as well.
>
> The trick to non-bobbing lemons is the right jar. It should be one
> with "shoulders," narrowing toward the mouth. I use a glass canning
> jar with a glass lid and rubber gasket. It's a bit of a balancing
> act, but you need to gauge the jar size to the amount of lemons to
> that when you've just about filled it, you cram in about 5-10 more,
> effectively wedging them beneath the "shoulder" of the jar. You
> really have to exert some force to make sure they're "trapped" beneath
> the "shoulder." You then have a bit of "head room" at the mouth of
> the jar, and you can top off the jar with more lemon juice (or, if
> you've run out of lemons, a bit of boiled water will work). The lemons
> should be so tightly packed that they don't shift or move at all when
> you shake the jar; only the fluid should slosh, not the lemons.
>
> And yes, they do "relax" as they ferment, so you can continue to smush
> them down as they soften.
>
> Regarding the quartering question, you should be making 4 slits along
> the length of the lemon, but starting and stopping about 1/2" away
> from each end. When you're salting, you squish down the lemon, pour in
> the salt, turn, do it again, etc. When you're done, the lemon
> "reforms." Yes, you will break some when you're backing them in, but
> if you're careful, you'll keep them whole. I use the "broken"
> sections as packing material to wedge in the whole lemons.
>
> BTW, be aware that there is a whole lot of fermentation which takes
> place and it seems to be completely random. I recently made two huge
> batches. Identical lemons, jars, salt, etc. One jar when on ferment,
> burping, squirting for about a month and a half; the other settled
> down in two weeks.
>
> The juice/liquid in the jars because quite cloudy, but it suddenly
> clears when the the fermentation stops. You have to shake the jars
> every day while they're active. After they've finished, they can lie
> quiet. Be aware that a lot of pressure can build up in the jars, so
> open them over a sink and away from your body or you can get covered
> with lemony brine!
>
> A funny story about preserved lemons. I'd been making them for years,
> according to Paula's recipe, and loved them. When I finally got to
> Morocco and tasted the lemons there, I was very disappointed! No
> flavor, or really a bit soapy. When I got back to the states, I
> plucked up my courage and phone Paula Wolfert to find out what the
> deal was. She was kind enough to validate my discovery, saying, in
> effect, that her recipe (and its reliance on lemon juice rather than
> water), was really "palace style" and produced a superior product! I
> was relieved to hear it. She's a wonderful person and very generous
> with her information, exactly as you'd expect from such an excellent
> author.
>
>
> mangodance > wrote in message
>...
> > David Hare-Scott wrote:
> >
> > > The only trick to it is to ensue that there is sufficient juice/salt
to
> > > cover the fruit otherwise it will get mouldy, if this happens just
throw out
> > > the mouldy bits on top and make sure the rest stays covered. Adding
some
> > > inert (glass, pottery, etc) weight on top (inside the jar) to push the
fruit
> > > down can assist.
> >
> > Everything I've ever seen or heard said to pack them down HARD so they
> > don't float up. I had my entire fist down in the cannisters packing
> > down the lemons. But they all still float up. If they didn't, I'd have
> > a safe 2" or so of juice covering them. Will they be less buoyant in a
> > day or two? I keep pushing them down but they're up w/in mins. I've
> > been scrambling for something made of glass that can go in the top of
> > the cannister and add weight enough to stay submerged but no luck yet.
> >
> > BTW, All the careful cutting into quarters but leaving them attached at
> > one end was for naught. Many ripped free during the squeezing/packing.
> > It seems to me that it would be easier just to quarter them fully and
> > pack better. Does anyone just use cut lemons?

"SS2" > wrote in message
...
> I found your post very informative. I've never made preserved lemons
> before - but I was looking for detailed info to do just that. That's how
I
> happened to join this newsgroup. I'm assuming that you just clean the
> lemons - quarter them - and layer them in a jar with salt, put them in a
> dark place and wait?
>
> Would anyone be willing to divulge kindergarten instructions? You speak
of
> lemon juice - do you squeeze them before placing in the jar? When using
the
> gasket jar - I'm reading that you lock the top?
>

This can be made in almost any quantity. The best time to do it is when
lemons are plentiful and cheap. I have used various types but prefer the
smooth skin type. This method of preservation works very well on limes too.
Some recipes say to add water. I don't as I want the mix to be high in acid
and salt in order to discourage microorganisms without refrigeration. Some
say the mix will (should) ferment. I have not had that experience and mine
turn out very well. I would be suspicious of any fermentation.

Use a glass or ceramic jar with a good sealing lid, the size depends on how
many lemons you have. Clean and dry the lemons and slice in quarters
lengthwise, keep back some for juicing. Layer them into the jar tightly and
sprinkle each layer liberally with salt, squish down hard and add some juice
every few layers. Fill almost to the brim and seal the lid.

After a few days the salt should draw much of the juice out. Check them and
make sure a) there is enough juice to cover the top layer b) the top layer
is actually under the juice c) all the air bubbles are out. If not add more
juice and salt and/or squish down, an inert disk (glass lid or similar) that
fits inside and holds down the lemons can be useful if they keep popping up.
Some commercial offerings come with a plastic crown-shaped ring that fits in
the neck and is held down by the lid. Of course something held by the lid
isn't much use once the level drops as you start to use them.

Check again in a week If all is well leave for 6-8 weeks before starting
to use them. I suspect that they mature faster in warmer weather but I
haven't kept detailed records. They should keep indefinitely in the jar.
If you get any mould, scrape it out and make sure the remaining skins are
covered with juice/salt. A little mould on top is no reason to ditch the
lot, it is probably quite harmless.

To use, scoop out the pulp with your thumb (it should be quite soft and
separate fairly easily from the rind, if it doesn't they are not ready yet)
and discard. Wash the rind under the tap and slice thinly. Some say that
you can use the pulp, I don't, if you use sufficient salt to preserve the
lemons without refrigeration the pulp will be VERY salty. When the jar is
finished you can recycle the juice in the bottom for your next batch. The
juice will become very thick over time and tend to darken in colour. When
you toss it and start fresh is up to you but I doubt that anything harmful
can grow in it. Obviously to have a continuous supply you need two jars.

Gasket jars give a good seal but if they are the type with a wire clip the
wire is likely to corrode from the salt in time.

David

mangodance wrote:

> BTW, All the careful cutting into quarters but leaving them attached
> at one end was for naught. Many ripped free during the
> squeezing/packing. It seems to me that it would be easier just to
> quarter them fully and pack better. Does anyone just use cut lemons?

I once saw some, where they had left them attached top AND bottom. So they
were lemons with 4 very deep slashes. I imagine you have to push the salt
in, but they would keep their shape better.

--
ant
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"mangodance" > wrote in message
...
> BTW, All the careful cutting into quarters but leaving them attached at
> one end was for naught. Many ripped free during the squeezing/packing.
> It seems to me that it would be easier just to quarter them fully and
> pack better. Does anyone just use cut lemons?
>

I just quarter them, I have no idea what the claimed benefit of leaving them
attached might be.

David

I'll try to type in English this time around. Just re-read my last
post--still shuddering at my typos! You'd never know English was my
mother tongue. Arrrrgggh.

I think the "to quarter or not to quarter" (sounds like Hamlet) issue
is a matter of tradition and aesthetics. When you buy preserved
lemons in Morocco, they're sold "loose," not in a jar; they hand them
to you wrapped in a plastic bag. Shopkeepers in the souk do wonderful
displays of different colored olives, preserved lemons, etc.,
something akin to a food mosaic. Quite stunning.

Regarding the "solarization" of lemons, that's so funny to hear that
this is somewhat of a global concept. You do that with Indian lemons
pickles, letting them "cook" in the hot sun. I've read that it's
supposed to "sterilize" them, but I'm not sure how. They do oxidize,
though, it's true, but with Indian lemons pickles they're usually
coated with chili anyway, so it's no big deal. Vietnames "chan mui"
are so akin to preserved lemons that you can substitute preserved
lemons to make that drink if you're desperate for it.

I prefer to make my preserved lemons with Meyer "lemons" (not really a
lemon, I know, but a hybrid sort of thing) which are readily (and
abundantly) available at certain times of the year here in Northern
California. Ponderosas and Eurekas work as well (they have a much
thicker rind), but they're a bit more sour and more difficult to come
by organically and in bulk.

One of the benefits of having preserved lemons about the kitchen is
the juice, which becomes quite syrupy and delicious over time. I
really use this more than the whole lemons. If you're able to keep
lemons for a few years (!), the juice becomes gelatinous and the fruit
dark brown. The flavor becomes much more complex as well, especially
if you've used spices. Excellent in combination with pomegranate
syrup (buy Persian, not Lebanese, more refined flavor--they don't seem
to grind in the rind and seeds when they make it) as a marinade for
meat.

On a final(and rather neurotic) note, I do observe the convention of
never sticking a dirty/oily spoon (or finger) in the pickle jar. Seems
they don't like oil much. This is odd as there's a whole sub-genre of
oil-based preserved lemons (it's more a Middle Eastern thing than a
North African one).

So who wants to talk about warka/b'stilla/spring roll skins/popiah?
LOL. I posted a few years back, but couldn't get any takers.....It's
a fascinating subject, and they're much more fun than phyllo dough
(yuck!)



"David Hare-Scott" > wrote in message >...
> "mangodance" > wrote in message
> ...
> > BTW, All the careful cutting into quarters but leaving them attached at
> > one end was for naught. Many ripped free during the squeezing/packing.
> > It seems to me that it would be easier just to quarter them fully and
> > pack better. Does anyone just use cut lemons?
> >
>
> I just quarter them, I have no idea what the claimed benefit of leaving them
> attached might be.
>
> David

Noel Gieleghem wrote:

> I prefer to make my preserved lemons with Meyer "lemons" (not really a
> lemon, I know, but a hybrid sort of thing)

eh? Meyers are the only lemons that grow successfully in Canberra (heavy
frosts, dry climate). I thought they were lemons! I'll use any lemons I can
get my hands on though.

> On a final(and rather neurotic) note, I do observe the convention of
> never sticking a dirty/oily spoon (or finger) in the pickle jar. Seems
> they don't like oil much. This is odd as there's a whole sub-genre of
> oil-based preserved lemons (it's more a Middle Eastern thing than a
> North African one).

I haven't had any of these lemons for a while...I teach skiing in Oz and the
US and I can't have gardens, or pets, or preserved lemons, or smen....or any
of these good things. although I'm thinking of doing it again anyway.

I used very large jars with a spring-form glass lid. I sterilised them, used
a lot of salt in each layer, and if I took out a lemon I sprinkled some salt
where it'd been. I did get some vapour building up, when the lid was
released, gas would pop out. the lemons were good, however. but I found
after some time, the rubber around the lid perished and the metal started to
corrode too.

> So who wants to talk about warka/b'stilla/spring roll skins/popiah?
> LOL. I posted a few years back, but couldn't get any takers.....It's
> a fascinating subject, and they're much more fun than phyllo dough
> (yuck!)

Never had the guts to try making warka! Wolfert's instructions are clear,
but it just looks very tricky. so you can use spring roll skins in place of
it???? I've always wanted to try making bistiya.

I am just now barbequing a 6 pound leg of veal. I covered it in lime juice
and then chermoula (a mix got from a large spice merchant here). I did this
with a smaller bit last week, and got a very nice effect much like the Doner
Kebab you buy from middle eastern food places. I've put some bits of
eucalyptus in the BBQ to provide some smoke.

--
ant
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